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MasonBuzz3
12-06-2005, 06:10 PM
The Pirates are close to acquiring first baseman Sean Casey from the Reds for left-hander Dave Williams, FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal reports.

If this goes down, then it's safe to assume the reports of the Red Sox offering Bronson Arroyo and/or Kevin Youkilis were false. As we figured anyway. Casey is making $8.5 million next year, so Williams, a bottom-of-the-rotation lefty, is about what he's worth. Dec. 6 - 6:02 pm et
www.rotoworld.com

CincyRedsFan30
12-06-2005, 06:14 PM
There you go folks. I'm in the process of confirming this now.

Heath
12-06-2005, 06:16 PM
I hope this is a situation where Ken Rosenthal's tossing crap on a wall again.

Donkey?

Joseph
12-06-2005, 06:16 PM
It may have been a pipe dream to get a ML arm and a highly regarded young player, but this is certainly a big drop in talent isn't it? I must say it will be highly disappointing after initial trade rumors concerning him.

pedro
12-06-2005, 06:18 PM
Looking at his splits he got absolutley lit up at home and lefties rake off him.

BP has this to say about him "sometimes he can still get it up into the high 80's"

eek.

paintmered
12-06-2005, 06:19 PM
Looking at his splits he got absolutley lit up at home and lefties rake off him.

BP has this to say about him "sometimes he can still get it up into the high 80's"

eek.

Sounds like a guy suited for middle relief than the back of the rotation.

Nothing more than a salary dump folks. But still, this is a heck of a deal for the Pirates if they can pull it off.

Heath
12-06-2005, 06:19 PM
Someone take DanO and fire him. Now.

Joseph
12-06-2005, 06:20 PM
Ok, now thinking about it, I agree with the salary dump statement. Earlier I said I'd trade him for anything, and it still holds true. I just suspected anything would be more than this.

TeamBoone
12-06-2005, 06:21 PM
Oh for Pete's sake! Same old crap... only worse.

Give up a good player for practically nothing in return. I can't believe a better deal can't be struck for Sean Casey! I have realy mixed feelings about seeing him leave... but at least get something better for him.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 06:23 PM
Penny stock time, Dan O deserves this, he was sitting on some fat stock and he played it wrong.

Krusty
12-06-2005, 06:24 PM
Oh for Pete's sake! Same old crap... only worse.

Give up a good player for practically nothing in return. I can't believe a better deal can't be struck for Sean Casey! I have realy mixed feelings about seeing him leave... but at least get something better for him.

Look at Sean Casey's power numbers for a lst baseman and they are horrible. Just dumping his contract is a case of addition by subtraction. Now you move Dunn to lst and play Pena everyday in the outfield. Actually the lineup might be more potent than last year's.

KronoRed
12-06-2005, 06:26 PM
I don't mind dumping Casey.

Willy
12-06-2005, 06:26 PM
The guy ranks in the bottom third of offensive categories for 1st basemen. What do you expect? Now use the money saved to sign Dunn to a LTC.

CincyRedsFan30
12-06-2005, 06:27 PM
Penny stock time, Dan O deserves this, he was sitting on some fat stock and he played it wrong.

Are you trying to say DanO spent a bit too much time on tea time at the meetings? ;)

Reds4Life
12-06-2005, 06:27 PM
Oh for Pete's sake! Same old crap... only worse.

Give up a good player for practically nothing in return. I can't believe a better deal can't be struck for Sean Casey! I have realy mixed feelings about seeing him leave... but at least get something better for him.

Maybe if Sean wasn't owed $8.5 million next year, but you aren't going to get much if they have to eat 100% of the salary. This is probably on the only thing Obie is allowed to do, dump salary.

Redmachine2003
12-06-2005, 06:28 PM
I get the feeling that there is a prospect in there too.

VI_RedsFan
12-06-2005, 06:28 PM
Oh man I hope there is a prospect involved. I would love to dump Casey to free up $ to sign Dunn LTC, but I think we should get a little more than just Dave Williams.

Ravenlord
12-06-2005, 06:29 PM
so now what becomes of Craig Wilson?

CincyRedsFan30
12-06-2005, 06:30 PM
I get the feeling that there is a prospect in there too.

Let's confirm the deal first, but I think you might be right. You will often see when deals are first announced as being close that only the supposed "primary" players are mentioned. The prospects are usually thrown in at the last minute unless they are top-notch.

Doc. Scott
12-06-2005, 06:31 PM
Williams is really lightly regarded, it seems. Yet he started twenty-five games in 2005 and didn't do too horribly. Yep, DanO loves him a changeup.

CincyRedsFan30
12-06-2005, 06:32 PM
This seems to make sense. He DOES pitch to contact. ;)

Unassisted
12-06-2005, 06:33 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05340/618082.stm


Pirates close to Casey deal

Tuesday, December 06, 2005
By Dejan Kovacevic, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

DALLAS -- Two sources confirmed today the Pirates are close to a trade to acquire Cincinnati Reds first baseman Sean Casey, an Upper St. Clair native, for starting pitcher Dave Williams.

The sources did not specify when the deal might come down, but it seems imminent.

Casey, 31, led the team in batting for the second year in a row last season with a .312 average. He has a lifetime .305 average.

His season ended last year in September during a visit to PNC Park when he was knocked unconscious by a violent collision at first base with Pirates catcher Humberto Cota.

In the seventh inning of the first game of a doubleheader, Cota was running out a grounder, and third baseman Edwin Encarnacion's throw pulled Casey off the bag toward home plate. Cota's raised left elbow struck Casey on the right side of the face -- just below the eye -- as he sprinted by, causing Casey to whirl around and drop to the ground.

He lay motionless for about 10 minutes before being immobilized, placed on a stretcher and carted slowly off the field to a warm ovation from the previously hushed crowd.

After a CT scan taken at Allegheny General Hospital, doctors diagnosed him with a Grade 2 concussion, meaning one in which consciousness is lost for less than five minutes. The season ended for the Reds before he was able to return to play.

He graduated from Upper St. Clair High School in 1992 after leading the team to its first WPIAL Class AAAA championship. He batted .419 with a school record 14 doubles and 33 RBIs that season. The school retired his jersey number in 2004.

Casey is affectionately known in Cincinnati as "The Mayor" for his general friendliness and tireless community work.

pedro
12-06-2005, 06:36 PM
If the Reds use the "pay flex" wisely it might not be that bad a deal. I know that's a big IF but Williams outperformed many of the Reds SP's last year and he only made $350,000.

TeamBoone
12-06-2005, 06:37 PM
The guy ranks in the bottom third of offensive categories for 1st basemen. What do you expect? Now use the money saved to sign Dunn to a LTC.

Dream on. I have no faith in the Reds that it will happen... unfortunately.

Instead, some crappy pitcher (like Milton) will be acquired.

dfs
12-06-2005, 06:37 PM
Boy, looking at Williams numbers....that's pretty terrible.

25 starts 140 innings 88 Ks a WHIP/9 over 12 an ERA+ of 97.

He's a five inning pitcher with nothing.

The only name on the comparable's list that strikes a bell is Chris Hammond.

That's how bad the reds are. This guy would step in and project to be their #3 pitcher.

In all honesty, why not just throw starts at Hancock, Belisle, Hudson et al.

That means they want to make the club better by getting rid of Sean Casey.

dsmith421
12-06-2005, 06:38 PM
Wholly uninspiring, boring, and faintly pathetic.

Sounds like Dan O'Brien to me.

CTA513
12-06-2005, 06:38 PM
Williams gave up 20 homeruns in 138 innings last year... how many do you think he will give up at GABP? Milton & Williams could have some kind of competition. ;)

WMR
12-06-2005, 06:38 PM
Well that's what will happen.

lollipopcurve
12-06-2005, 06:39 PM
I have no problem with this deal. Williams is 26-27 years old and had a 2.65 ERA in away games. He's 5th starter material, better than what the team has now. 1B is cleared for Dunn, the outfield defense will improve, and money is saved for other contracts. People who assume Casey should have been moved for better, meet all the folks who said they'd dump Casey for a box of balls. Getting a usable major league pitcher is a solid return in my book.

And I'm happy for Casey that's he's going home. He deserves to be a hero in his hometown for a while.

Caseyfan21
12-06-2005, 06:39 PM
What's the point of a salary dump when we all know Dan O'Boring won't get around to making up his mind in time to make another deal? I can deal with a Casey tade if it improves this team. Getting a back of the rotation lefty doesn't seem like something that's worth our starting first baseman and one of the team leaders. I know Casey takes heat around here and all of Redsland for his lack of power, but can you honestly say you'd rather have Dave Williams taking the hill once every 5 days instead of Casey playing every day. Unless one of the other outfielders is traded for a major pitcher or the Reds make a move on someone in the free agent market, I can't see why it would be worth to unload Casey's salary for one year.

kbrake
12-06-2005, 06:40 PM
I dont see how people view this as a bad deal. If someone is willing to take Casey, his 40 RBI's and his 8.5 mil it is a good deal for the Reds. I get the feeling some of you are getting upset because of what you 'heard' the Red Sox were offering. The Reds are better off without Casey.

Petitt33
12-06-2005, 06:42 PM
Put it another prospect and I'll take it. Casey straight up for Williams is just not what I was looking for...

Doc. Scott
12-06-2005, 06:42 PM
It's going to be painful, but Casey is exactly the guy that needs to go. If we get to move Junior or Dunn to first and keep Kearns and Pena, the offense ain't gonna miss Sean. Although the community will.

With the raft of pitching prospects the Pirates have (probably one of the two or three thickest stacks in MLB), I can't see how DanO would fail to get at least one halfway promising one. Maybe he'll even get someone mildly exciting. Cross off Duke, Snell and Maholm right off the bat, though. Could Bryan Bullington, the first player picked in 2002, be a possibility? Or Ohio native John VanBenschoten, due back from arm surgery in '06?

I didn't say that these were *desirable* outcomes, just possible ones. The other idea is that the Reds could get one of the several catching prospects the Pirates have. With LaRue gone by the 2006 trading deadline if not sooner and Valentin possibly the same (if the clock doesn't strike midnight on him, that is), Cincy could use a catcher with the ACTUAL ABILITY TO HIT in the farm system, hmm?

Sickels:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2005/12/5/123629/469

Pittsburgh Pirates Top 20 PRE-SEASON Prospects in Review

1) Zach Duke, LHP
Pitched brilliantly after promotion to Pirates, 8-2, 1.81 in 14 starts. 58/23 K/BB in 85 innings isn't awesome, but he keeps the ball down so well and throws strikes that he's been very effective thus far. Some pullback is likely, but Duke should remain effective as long as his arm holds up. The pitcher than Burnett was supposed to be.

2) Ian Snell, RHP
11-3, 3.70 in 18 starts for Triple-A Indianapolis, 104/23 K/BB in 112 innings. Still a solid strike-throwing, power-pitching prospect.

3) Neil Walker, C
Hit .301/.332/.452 with 33 doubles, 12 homers for Class A Hickory. Also a solid prospect, has lived up to expectations so far.

4) Tom Gorzelanny, LHP
8-5, 3.26 in 23 starts for Double-A Altoona, 124/46 K/BB in 130 innings. Doesn't get as much attention as he deserves, but he has a good southpaw arm and has made large improvements with his command.

5) John VanBenschoten, RHP
Torn labrum. Expected to be healthy in '06.

6) Nate McLouth, OF
Hit .257/.305/.450 in 41 games for the Pirates, hitting for more power than expected, but showing less speed and weaker on-base skills than in the minors. If he can combine both aspects he will be a very effective player.

7) Matt Peterson, RHP
Went 11-9 for Altoona, but with an ugly 5.51 ERA and an 87/74 K/BB in 144 innings. Has a good arm but command is a major problem and will prevent him from succeeding unless it changes dramatically.

8) Rajai Davis, OF
Hit .281/.351/.369 with 45 steals for Altoona. I think he could be a good bench outfielder due to speed, glove, and adequate on-base skills.

9) Kyle Bloom, LHP
Brilliant at Class A Hickory (1.87 ERA in 12 starts), but hammered for Class A Lynchburg (5.86 ERA in 12 starts) due to serious control problems at the higher level (43 walks in 63 innings with just 34 strikeouts). Doesn't throw hard enough to get away with K/BB like that.

10) Brad Eldred, 1B
Slugged 12 homers in 55 games after promotion to Pittsburgh, but hit just .221 and struck out 77 times in 190 at-bats. Numbers tell the story: great power, but major problems with contact.

11) Paul Maholm, LHP
Pitched well for Altoona and Triple-A Indianapolis, then went 3-1, 2.18 in six starts for the Pirates. Standard command-control lefty, has to be sharp to survive but usually is. Best news is full recovery from injury-plagued bad luck '04 season.

12) Freddy Sanchez, 2B
Hit .291/.336/.400 for the Pirates. Performance was exactly in line with expectations generated during his minor league career.

13) Wardell Starling, RHP
10-10, 5.22 in 28 starts for Lynchburg, 102/55 K/BB in 153 innings, 168 hits allowed. I thought he was a sleeper a couple of years ago, but his ratios are deteriorating, not improving, and he has not matured emotionally.

14) Bobby Bradley, RHP
Released after allowing 23 runs in 12 innings for Indianapolis.

15) Jeff Miller, RHP
3.53 ERA for Indianapolis, 62/27 K/BB in 82 innings. Looking for a middle relief role somewhere.

16) Ronny Paulino, C
Hit .315/.372/.538 with 13 homers in 77 games for Indianapolis. He has enough power to definitely be useful at the major league level.

17) Joe Bauserman, RHP
Pitched well in short-season ball, going 6-2, 2.84 for Williamsport in the New York-Penn League. Should move up to full-season competition in '06. K/IP is not impressive so he isn't a sure thing just yet.

18) Eric Ridener, RHP
Didn't pitch this year due to nagging injuries but expected to be healthy in '06.

19) Bryan Bullington, RHP
Rebounded by going 9-5, 3.38 in 18 starts in Triple-A, reestablishing prospect status. Shoulder problems will sideline him early in '06.

20) Josh Sharpless, RHP
Sleeper prospect, fanned 59 with just 14 walks in 36 innings between Lynchburg and Altoona. Throws hard and has improved his command. Elbow injury supposedly OK.

There are some sleepers in this farm system, and I think it's in better condition than a lot of people think.

Ravenlord
12-06-2005, 06:42 PM
I know Casey takes heat around here and all of Redsland for his lack of power, but can you honestly say you'd rather have Dave Williams taking the hill once every 5 days instead of Casey playing every day. depends entirely on what's about to happen with that 8 million that's about to be saved.

Patrick Bateman
12-06-2005, 06:43 PM
Quit complaining people. Yesterday it was trade Casey for anything. Now you are all disappointed when DOB actually listened.

Matt700wlw
12-06-2005, 06:45 PM
depends entirely on what's about to happen with that 8 million that's about to be saved.

Yep.

MikeS21
12-06-2005, 06:46 PM
Salary dump or not, SURELY O'Brien can do better than Dave Williams? You gotta think that some GM will catch wind of this potential deal and jump in with a slightly better offer.

If this is truly what the market value for Sean Casey is, then it doesn't matter who the GM is, this team is in deep trouble.

TOBTTReds
12-06-2005, 06:47 PM
Are you trying to say DanO spent a bit too much time on tea time at the meetings? ;)

In all seriousness, I've only seen him once this week, and he was walking to a meeting with a folder of cubs reports. Cashman and Manaya have been around all day, and night.

Caseyfan21
12-06-2005, 06:48 PM
depends entirely on what's about to happen with that 8 million that's about to be saved.

That was exactly my point. If the Reds can turn this around for some pitching or locking up Dunn long term, I'm all for it. Unfortunately as a Reds fan, when I high priced veteran is traded, I'm used to it being the start of a fire sale and ownership sitting on the money. I don't think that will happen but with DanO in charge I've learned to expect the worse. The worse would be trading Casey for Williams then doing nothing else to improve our pitching. I don't think OBoing can say with a straight face that Williams is the answer to our pitching problem, althought I bet by this time tomorrow he will be shoving that down our throat. :rolleyes:

lollipopcurve
12-06-2005, 06:50 PM
If this is truly what the market value for Sean Casey is

He's a first baseman with a big contract, and he's below average. Who is going to want him? Looks like his hometown.

missionhockey21
12-06-2005, 06:53 PM
Casey could get an equal return in talent if the Reds are willing to help cover his contract. Asking teams to take his below average production (for players of that salary) and high priced contract on for equal talent just won't fly.... something has to give.

If the money we save though in a rumored salary dump like this is used to lock up Dunn for the next few years.... I'll be viewing it as an early Christmas present.

MikeS21
12-06-2005, 06:54 PM
Another aspect of this to be considered is the PR fiasco. Strictly speaking, by BASEBALL standards, we recognize that there are better options than Caey at 1B. but from the FANS point of view, especially those whose kids are die hard Casey fans, this is not going to bode well for ticket sales.

Like it or not, Sean Casey is a huge draw in Cincinnati. To trade him for a below average relief pitcher is not how the new ownership group wants to start their tenure.

paintmered
12-06-2005, 06:56 PM
He's a first baseman with a big contract, and he's below average. Who is going to want him? Looks like his hometown.


Rich Aurilia

SPLIT G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG
Season 114 426 61 120 23 2 14 68 2 .282 .338 .444

Sean Casey

SPLIT G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG
Season 137 529 75 165 32 0 9 58 2 .312 .371 .423


Sean Casey was matched by an over-the-hill shortstop last year. I think we should be happy to get his name off the books.

Doc. Scott
12-06-2005, 06:57 PM
Another aspect of this to be considered is the PR fiasco. Strictly speaking, by BASEBALL standards, we recognize that there are better options than Caey at 1B. but from the FANS point of view, especially those whose kids are die hard Casey fans, this is not going to bode well for ticket sales.

Like it or not, Sean Casey is a huge draw in Cincinnati. To trade him for a below average relief pitcher is not how the new ownership group wants to start their tenure.

Wins draw fans. Unless you're the Cubs, nothing else does on more than a temporary basis. For the Cubs it's wins and pity.

Willy
12-06-2005, 06:57 PM
I know Williams is not very good, BUT he did win 10 games on a bad Pirate team, and a 4.41 ERA would rank him third on the Reds starting staff.

When your as bad as the Reds you need to start somewhere.

The $8.5 Million is why the Reds are not going to do better than this for Casey.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 06:58 PM
this is not going to bode well for ticket sales.The Reds had 300k less last year than the year before, I'm certain that they're going to have to depend on more than Hal Morris version 2.0. They went that path last year and they got burned.

traderumor
12-06-2005, 06:59 PM
Another aspect of this to be considered is the PR fiasco. Strictly speaking, by BASEBALL standards, we recognize that there are better options than Caey at 1B. but from the FANS point of view, especially those whose kids are die hard Casey fans, this is not going to bode well for ticket sales.

Like it or not, Sean Casey is a huge draw in Cincinnati. To trade him for a below average relief pitcher is not how the new ownership group wants to start their tenure.
Hopefully it will be a sign that a player's ability to help the Cincinnati Reds win baseball games will take precedence over a player's real or perceived popularity.

reds44
12-06-2005, 07:03 PM
This means the Reds are not done dealing. I doubt we have Dunn playing 1st base next year. We will still deal one of the outfielders IMO.

The question is who do we now go get to play 1st?

We get rid of $8 mil., and i love Case, but he was too slow and didn't have enough power at 1st base. I think that it is a good trade.

dsmith421
12-06-2005, 07:05 PM
The question is who do we now go get to play 1st?


I'm going to throw this out there and duck: Roberto Petagine.

TeamCasey
12-06-2005, 07:05 PM
Can I at least have a hug, people? :laugh:

jmcclain19
12-06-2005, 07:08 PM
Junior can play 1B every day and Denorfia & Freel can take turns in CF.

Then Kearns or Pena can still be moved for another usable pitcher.

As long as the money saved on Casey is used to re-up Dunn, then I'm happy with this trade. Although another arm like Bullington thrown in would be a sweet steal.

BrooklynRedz
12-06-2005, 07:08 PM
Just got confirmation that this deal could go down very, very soon.

Patrick Bateman
12-06-2005, 07:08 PM
Can I at least have a hug, people? :laugh:

Sorry TC. But, I think it's the right move. Hopefully AK doesn't follow him out the door or I will feel your pain.

NewEraReds
12-06-2005, 07:09 PM
williams SUCKS! we dont have to give a way casey, and thats exactly what this trade is. we have enough 4 and 5 starters. if a trade doesnt bring back a 1 or 2, or a potential 1 or 2, it isnt worth it.

reds44
12-06-2005, 07:09 PM
Unless we trade for a 1st baseman or put Dunn there, here are your available 1st baseman.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/hot_stove/y2005/free_agent_tracker.jsp?fastatus=all&subscope=pos&teamPosCode=3

Player Position Former Team New Team Signing Date Notes
1. Anderson, Marlon 1B NYM WSH 11/18/05 Two-year contract
2. Clark, Tony 1B ARI ARI 8/05/05 Two-year contract extension
3. Colbrunn, Greg 1B TEX --- --- ---
4. Franco, Julio 1B ATL --- --- ---
5. Hansen, Dave 1B SEA --- --- ---
6. Hatteberg, Scott 1B OAK --- --- Club declined option for 2006
7. Hernandez, Jose 1B CLE --- --- ---
8. Konerko, Paul 1B CWS CWS 11/30/05 Five-year contract
9. Lee, Travis 1B TB --- --- ---
10. Martinez, Tino 1B NYY --- --- Club declined option for 2006
11. Mientkiewicz, Doug 1B NYM --- --- Club declined option for 2006
12. Millar, Kevin 1B BOS --- --- ---
13. Offerman, Jose 1B NYM --- --- ---
14. Olerud, John 1B BOS --- --- ---
15. Palmeiro, Rafael 1B BAL --- --- ---
16. Perez, Eduardo 1B TB --- --- ---
17. Saenz, Olmedo 1B LAD --- --- ---
18. Snow, J.T. 1B SF --- --- ---
19. Sweeney, Mark 1B SD --- --- ---
20. Ward, Daryle 1B PIT --- --- ---
21. Young, Dmitri 1B DET DET 9/07/05 Option for 2006 vested.

KronoRed
12-06-2005, 07:10 PM
Can I at least have a hug, people? :laugh:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Kronosb/BigHug.gif

Patrick Bateman
12-06-2005, 07:11 PM
williams SUCKS! we dont have to give a way casey, and thats exactly what this trade is. we have enough 4 and 5 starters. if a trade doesnt bring back a 1 or 2, or a potential 1 or 2, it isnt worth it.

Like who?

Right now Harang and Claussen are the only 2 starters worthy of a rotation spot.

TeamCasey
12-06-2005, 07:12 PM
Sorry TC. But, I think it's the right move. Hopefully AK doesn't follow him out the door or I will feel your pain.

I know. I've said the last year or so that no one is untouchable. He makes too much. I just hope the Reds aren't done.

Reds4Life
12-06-2005, 07:12 PM
williams SUCKS! we dont have to give a way casey, and thats exactly what this trade is. we have enough 4 and 5 starters. if a trade doesnt bring back a 1 or 2, or a potential 1 or 2, it isnt worth it.

An under performing first basemen thats going to make $8.5 million next year is NOT going to get you a #1 or #2 starter, or even a potential one.

NewEraReds
12-06-2005, 07:13 PM
An under performing first basemen thats going to make $8.5 million next year is NOT going to get you a #1 or #2 starter, or even a potential one.
thats why i said potential. if you cant get a very good prospect, then you dont move him

missionhockey21
12-06-2005, 07:13 PM
Just got confirmation that this deal could go down very, very soon.
Any word on if another player or prospect would be thrown in? Or is it just like it's been reported?

Thanks Brooklyn.

NewEraReds
12-06-2005, 07:14 PM
Like who?

Right now Harang and Claussen are the only 2 starters worthy of a rotation spot.
i would take any 3 aaa guys we have. williams is a bum. out of all those pitchers in their entire organization, and this is who dan o is getting. pathetic

westofyou
12-06-2005, 07:15 PM
Runs Created above Position
It's the difference between a player's RC total and the total for an average player who used the same amount of his team's outs.


OPS vs. the league average
RUNS CREATED/GAME vs. the league average

RCAP YEAR RCAP AB OPS RC/G
1 Sean Casey 1999 24 594 .143 2.48
2 Sean Casey 2004 22 571 .137 2.29
3 Sean Casey 2001 5 533 .047 0.79
4 Sean Casey 2000 1 480 .105 1.56
5 Sean Casey 2003 -15 573 -.013 -.17
6 Sean Casey 2005 -17 529 .028 0.25

CincyRedsFan30
12-06-2005, 07:15 PM
I bet everyone who is bashing this deal now will be pleased if it allows us to lock up Dunn, sign a FA starter or add another high priced pitcher in another possible trade. :)

paintmered
12-06-2005, 07:15 PM
An under performing first basemen thats going to make $8.5 million next year is NOT going to get you a #1 or #2 starter, or even a potential one.

Yep. It isn't a secret that Casey is pyrite. Shoot, I already showed that the dispised Rich Aurilia looked pretty decent compared to Casey. If you expect to get gold in return, then you've got your head in the clouds, I'm afraid.

Patrick Bateman
12-06-2005, 07:15 PM
thats why i said potential. if you cant get a very good prospect, then you dont move him

You have to look at this realistically. Casey is not worth a top pitching prospect. He's a 8.5M below average 1st basemen. He offers less production for the money being paid. This is a fair market return IMO. Williams aint great, but he's better than nothing.

reds44
12-06-2005, 07:16 PM
i would take any 3 aaa guys we have. williams is a bum. out of all those pitchers in their entire organization, and this is who dan o is getting. pathetic

I would have taken a 6 pack of Miller Lite to get rid of Casey's contract.

Now if we take on ANY of his contract, it is a bad. It doesn't look like we are though.

TeamCasey
12-06-2005, 07:16 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Kronosb/BigHug.gif


[I don't mind dumping Casey.



You should give me pity points, Mister! We need a "Krono's in the doghouse" smiley. ;)

(Kidding and Thank you.)

Patrick Bateman
12-06-2005, 07:17 PM
i would take any 3 aaa guys we have. williams is a bum. out of all those pitchers in their entire organization, and this is who dan o is getting. pathetic

Jake Robbins, Tommy Phelps, and Ben Kozlowski. Sign me up. Looks like a good rotation.

OnBaseMachine
12-06-2005, 07:17 PM
Just got confirmation that this deal could go down very, very soon.

Like, tonight soon? Or Tomorrow? I'm curious to see if it's just Williams or another player is involved.

Sabo Fan
12-06-2005, 07:18 PM
I'm as big a proponent for trading Casey as anyone, and while moving him makes all the sense in the world to me, I don't care for this deal all that much. I said for awhile that I would be happy if the Reds could get a young bullpen type with some good upside for Casey, and I stand by that. Apparently DanO only saw fit to fufill 2/3 of that request. Williams is young, does seem to project as a bullpen guy, but he's got very limited upside from what I can tell. Although I suppose that with this current administration's track record, 2 out of 3 isn't bad.

Reds4Life
12-06-2005, 07:18 PM
thats why i said potential. if you cant get a very good prospect, then you dont move him

And that's why I said "or even a potential one". No team is going to flip you one of thier top pitching prospects while eating 100% of his salary for next season.

The fact is the market for a non power hitting 1st basement that makes $8.5 million a year isn't very strong.

KoryMac5
12-06-2005, 07:22 PM
Kip Wells for Casey straight up still sounds good to me. It still sounds like the same old same old to me. Dump a salary and try and sign Dunn long term. How about this sign Dunn long term and than dump the salary.

deltachi8
12-06-2005, 07:23 PM
if it ride the salary, its a good deal.

paintmered
12-06-2005, 07:23 PM
Kip Wells for Casey straight up still sounds good to me. It still sounds like the same old same old to me. Dump a salary and try and sign Dunn long term. How about this sign Dunn long term and than dump the salary.

Because you'll get even less of a return if other teams know you have to have the salary off the books. Nothing will handcuff you in a potential trade faster than that.

kbrake
12-06-2005, 07:24 PM
If anyone out there remembers Sparky Anderson night this past year, Dave Williams looked pretty good agaist the Reds. (Not that it matters at all but just thought I would throw it out there)

Caveat Emperor
12-06-2005, 07:26 PM
i would take any 3 aaa guys we have. williams is a bum. out of all those pitchers in their entire organization, and this is who dan o is getting. pathetic

Dan'O is getting $8.5 million of foolishly allocated cap money. That's money that can be used for any number of projects, from signing Adam Dunn to a long-term deal to dealing Kearns or Pena for a proven ML-starter about to be FA-eligible and signing him to a long-term deal.

Why people are upset about this deal is because the names being rumored, as is always the case, were better then the names that were likely being discussed. Williams is no Kip Wells...heck, he's no Josh Fogg (and certainly no Bronson Arroyo), but he's something in return. You can either spin this as he's a better 5th starter choice than Luke Hudson or a better reliever than most of the crap floating around the bullpen.

Either way, Reds benefit...I think everyone is just mad they're not benefiting as much as they thought they might (or as much as they could have if they'd have dealt Casey prior to the AS break in 2004).

Strikes Out Looking
12-06-2005, 07:26 PM
The Pirate fans, for the most part, seem to think they are getting a one year over priced rent a player and giving up a good young arm.

I tend to think this is part of a two part move. I can't see Dunn at 1b everyday (actually Kearns may be better there), and maybe this frees up the Reds to get another SP with a bigger salary--Kearns to Oakland for Zito? And then they can sign Nomar to play 1b? I'm just guessing here.

I love Casey, but I guess it's time for him to move on. It looks like the Reds are getting another back of the rotation guy and lots of salary relief.

reds44
12-06-2005, 07:27 PM
No way you put Kearms at 1st. He has way to good of an arm.

Strikes Out Looking
12-06-2005, 07:29 PM
Point well taken about Kearns's arm. However, he did play infield at one time (remember last years 3b experiment).

kbrake
12-06-2005, 07:31 PM
[QUOTE=Caveat Emperor]Why people are upset about this deal is because the names being rumored, as is always the case, were better then the names that were likely being discussed. Williams is no Kip Wells...heck, he's no Josh Fogg (and certainly no Bronson Arroyo), but he's something in return. You can either spin this as he's a better 5th starter choice than Luke Hudson or a better reliever than most of the crap floating around the bullpen.[QUOTE=Caveat Emperor]

Pretty much sums up this whole thing. Really people the Red Sox deal would have been sweet and I know its not easy to part with Casey but this team is better off.

StillFunkyB
12-06-2005, 07:33 PM
No way you put Kearms at 1st. He has way to good of an arm.

Yeah, that would be like squirrel hunting with a howitzer.

I am going to be sad to see Casey go, but it's for the better. At least he is may be going to his hometown team, which makes it a little easier on him and his family.

I would like to see the Reds get one more player in return tho. Like Doc said, either VanBen or Bullington would make me a little happier about this deal. Otherwise, I'm a bit dissapointed but realize the greater picture. :)

KoryMac5
12-06-2005, 07:34 PM
Because you'll get even less of a return if other teams know you have to have the salary off the books. Nothing will handcuff you in a potential trade faster than that.


Its my opinion that you never give away a guy for nothing even for salary relief. I'd rather have an average prospect for Casey than Williams. This is one rumor that makes no sense to me.

BrooklynRedz
12-06-2005, 07:35 PM
Any word on if another player or prospect would be thrown in? Or is it just like it's been reported?

Thanks Brooklyn.

I'm trying to find that out right now. It would be a heckuva lot easier if the hotel where the meetings are being held wasn't having broadband problems.


Like, tonight soon? Or Tomorrow? I'm curious to see if it's just Williams or another player is involved.

I've heard from several people that it could go down any minute so it seems to the two sides have at the very least agreed to the principles. I'm *guessing* that the clubs are now talking throw-ins at this point. Or not. Like I said, I'm still trying to get in touch with some people.

KoryMac5
12-06-2005, 07:36 PM
Somebody correct me if Im wrong but didn't Dunn say last year he didn't like playing first and prefered the outfield over firstbase.

Patrick Bateman
12-06-2005, 07:37 PM
Somebody correct me if Im wrong but didn't Dunn say last year he didn't like playing first and prefered the outfield over firstbase.

You are correct.

reds44
12-06-2005, 07:37 PM
Somebody correct me if Im wrong but didn't Dunn say last year he didn't like playing first and prefered the outfield over firstbase.

I think he did a few years ago, and I don't see him playing 1st base for us. That is why I think that we are not done dealing.

Petitt33
12-06-2005, 07:37 PM
Looks like its a done deal: http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

deltachi8
12-06-2005, 07:41 PM
IF AD is playing 1st (Personally, I would move Griffey there), Im sure he will be fine once he gets his fat new contract extension.

:D

pedro
12-06-2005, 07:44 PM
Looks like its a done deal: http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

that says the Reds will assume some of the salary which makes the deal somewhat less palatable.

OnBaseMachine
12-06-2005, 07:46 PM
Would love to know why they chose this deal over Youkilis and Arroyo, if indeed those two were offered for Sean.


Casey deal done

DALLAS -- The Reds have agreed in principle to trade Sean Casey to the Pittsburgh Pirates for left-hander Dave Williams, two sources have confirmed.

The trade is apparently straight up, though the Reds will assume some portion of the $8.5 million due to the All-Star first baseman in 2006, the final year of his contract. Both players must still pass physicals for the trade to become official.

Casey will be returning to his hometown, where his parents still live. He spent the last eight years with the Reds, becoming arguably the face of the franchise in recent years. He hit .312 last season with 32 doubles, nine home runs and 58 RBI. A .305 career hitter, Casey has struck out only 467 times in 4,017 at-bats.

Williams, who will turn 27 in March, went 10-11 with a 4.41 ERA in 25 starts for the Pirates last year. A 17th-round draft pick by Pittsburgh in 1998, Williams jumped from A-ball to the majors in a year, making his big-league debut in 2001 at age 22.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/2005/12/casey-deal-done.asp#comments

dfs
12-06-2005, 07:46 PM
Williams aint great, but he's better than nothing.

I'm not convinced. Williams one good trait is that he's a lefty. While the reds don't have any good pitching, they have plenty of lefty's. Why would they want more.

In addition to taking Williams straight up, the reds are reportedly paying some of Casey's salary.

I'm all for trading Casey, but this doesn't seem like any kind of "deal" to me.

WVRed
12-06-2005, 07:48 PM
that says the Reds will assume some of the salary which makes the deal somewhat less palatable.

:barf:

Matt700wlw
12-06-2005, 07:48 PM
This deal doesn't do a whole lot for me...but if that $8Million is used well, it could make me feel better....

The Red Sox deal seemed better.


He is a young pitcher though...I guess we'll see

Reds4Life
12-06-2005, 07:49 PM
Well, that changes things. Williams was fine it we were dumping all of the salary, but if we still footing part of the bill Williams alone is not sufficient.

I should have known that Obie could find a way to screw up a salary dump. :rolleyes:

StillFunkyB
12-06-2005, 07:51 PM
:barf:

I second that.

CincyRedsFan30
12-06-2005, 07:52 PM
Amazing is all I can say to us taking on some of the salary. I guess we won't be using it(at least as much) to do anything good.

I guess we couldn't have expected O'Brien to do anything right. :rolleyes:

Aronchis
12-06-2005, 07:54 PM
Personally, this is a deal, I could care less about, and I have no love loss for Sean, his time had come. For 2007, it means nothing. 2006 is the end of the beginning anyway you go about it, this organization as it sits now, won't be the same a year from now.

I guess the "Fantastic" Four(Kearns,Pena,Dunn and Griff) dreams may be coming true, unless somebody else "goes".

RANDY IN INDY
12-06-2005, 07:55 PM
:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

SteelSD
12-06-2005, 07:55 PM
Williams sure is a screwy guy. Got beat like a rented Milton at home last season. Very good on the road. Gave up a ton of HR at home, but the HR Park Factor for PNC was .868. The guy is virtually a straight-up 1:1 GB/FB guy and got slightly BABIP-lucky in 2005 (.281 BABIP) while putting up a pedestrian WHIP (1.41). Williams OPSA would have ranked him 83rd (of 94) among MLB ERA qualifiers had he pitched enough Innings to qualify. He's got a history of allowing too many longballs. He's not a strikeout pitcher and I'd want to go over his medical records with a fine tooth comb considering that a torn labrum (2002) put him on the shelf for well over a year. His arbitration clock is ticking.

Let's just say that Dave Williams does not profile as a pitcher I particularly care for. Worse players than Casey have been moved for more. However, I'll keep myself open to revising that take if there's a prospect of value also coming over from the Pirates.

There's value in moving the 8.5M left on Casey's contract if that money is used to actually benefit the club. But that's about the extent of the potential benefit if Williams is the only name involved from the other side and it's quite possible that those funds will be chewed up by a mediocre-to-bad pitcher once he hits arbitration.

Good GM's find undervalued players to acquire in deals. Dave Williams doesn't project to be one of those, meaning that you're trading mediocrity for mediocrity at a cost savings. That's not the worst thing in the world if you don't spend the newly-found payflex on mediocrity, but this IS Dan O'Brien talking about.

Strikes Out Looking
12-06-2005, 07:57 PM
Why are the Reds are paying any part of his salary and not getting any prospects?

Ugh, I know the answer. DanO.

reds44
12-06-2005, 07:58 PM
Wait until you see how much we are playing. it could be only like 1 mil.

CincyRedsFan30
12-06-2005, 07:59 PM
Why are the Reds are paying any part of his salary and not getting any prospects?

Ugh, I know the answer. DanO.

I can see it now:

Littlefield: Dan, it's not needed, but we'd really like you to pay for some of Casey's salary.

O'Brien: Happy to oblige, Dave. We only need enough to bring back Rich Aurilia, so we'll be OK with paying for half of his salary.

Matt700wlw
12-06-2005, 08:01 PM
Now...what happens with the freed up money?

That could be the deciding factor on how this turns out.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 08:02 PM
Now...what happens with the freed up money?

That could be the deciding factor on how this turns out.They're going to use it to buy some ice cream for everyone who's upset about it is my guess.

RedRoser
12-06-2005, 08:03 PM
BUT you're forgetting that in addition to Aurilia, Machado (The Savior) is coming back! That cuts into the amount "saved" by a few more cool million. :bang:

GoReds
12-06-2005, 08:06 PM
This is disgusting. Bad enough that the Reds are trading a decent player for a nothing player. But to add insult to injury and include money to the Pirates in the deal???

And NO other prospect coming back?

Man, I can hear the laughter from Pittsburgh all the way to Cincinnati. The Reds aren't the Bengals of the 90s - they are far worse.

Strikes Out Looking
12-06-2005, 08:08 PM
Pencil in Javy Valentin as the opening day 1b. (Also pencil him in as the major free agent pick up).

Benihana
12-06-2005, 08:10 PM
:bang: Like most here, I have NO PROBLEM with trading Casey, but this just looks like a horrible trade. I am not going to jump to conclusions about a possible BOS deal, because nobody knows for sure if that was even offered, but at least if we're going to get nothing in return, we should not be paying ANY of his salary. If this doesn't turn into an LTC for Dunn, FeLo, or Harang OR some kind of decent pitching, color me disgusted (but not surprised, with DanO.) :bang:

I say unless you can land Zito, hang on to the OFers now til Kearns and/or Pena can at least get their value up. Put Griffey or Dunn at 1B for the time being.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 08:10 PM
Dave Williams had the same season as Brandon Claussen last year, they're the same age too. Casey has a questionable shoulder and limited power, plus he's slower than almost every player in the league, plus he makes 8.5 million bucks a year.

Would you trade Casey for Brandon Claussen?

KronoRed
12-06-2005, 08:10 PM
Would love to know why they chose this deal over Youkilis and Arroyo, if indeed those two were offered for Sean.

That offer had to have been for Dunn, the Sox don't see the kind to overpay for Casey

MrCinatit
12-06-2005, 08:11 PM
at least he's not being traded to a ballclub within our division, increasing the chances he will have more opportunities to tear us apar....
oh...wait.

VI_RedsFan
12-06-2005, 08:11 PM
Uggghhh. I will be pissed if we pay any of Casey's salary. Dave Williams sucks. We better be getting a prospect in this deal or I will fly to Dallas and slap DanO right is the face.

CincyRedsFan30
12-06-2005, 08:13 PM
Dave Williams had the same season as Brandon Claussen last year, they're the same age too. Casey has a questionable shoulder and limited power, plus he's slower than almost every player in the league, plus he makes 8.5 million bucks a year.

Would you trade Casey for Brandon Claussen?

I would.

If I find out we're only paying for a VERY small amount of his salary, I will not mind the deal, especially if it leads to something else happening(which I think very well could). If it leads to nothing and we pay for half of Casey's salary, then I won't be pleased.

captainmorgan07
12-06-2005, 08:14 PM
im in the middle on this trade yes we got a pitcher he's had his problems in pittsburgh but this could free up some of our problems if they can convince dunn to play first everyday the outfield would be set but move kearns to left and keep pena in right

Benihana
12-06-2005, 08:14 PM
Dave Williams had the same season as Brandon Claussen last year, they're the same age too. Casey has a questionable shoulder and limited power, plus he's slower than almost every player in the league, plus he makes 8.5 million bucks a year.

Would you trade Casey for Brandon Claussen?


The difference being at least Claussen has been said to have top of the rotation stuff (at some point, even post-TJ). This Martinez guy doesn't look much different from the Luke Hudsons/Luis Pinedas of the world, other than he is Left Handed. Still I say BLAH.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 08:15 PM
cincyredsfan30, do you think the Reds are done as far as the Winter Meetings go or could we get more action tomorrow or Thursday?

Benihana
12-06-2005, 08:15 PM
Uggghhh. I will be pissed if we pay any of Casey's salary. Dave Williams sucks. We better be getting a prospect in this deal or I will fly to Dallas and slap DanO right is the face.

If I were you I'd be on expedia right now looking up flights.

reds44
12-06-2005, 08:16 PM
Will we ever be happy with what Dan'O does?

Almost everybody wanted Casey gone, now you have it. As long as we are only paying a mil or 2 this is a ok deal.

CincyRedsFan30
12-06-2005, 08:19 PM
I think there could be something else that happens before O'Brien leaves the meetings. I'm not certain that will happen, as you can never be certain with DanO, but I think there's an above average chance that something does happen.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 08:21 PM
Chances are good that this trade turns out like the trade the Reds and Pirates made in the late 50's, the Reds got Frank Thomas and he bombed bigtime for the Reds (went on elsewhere and got it together)

The Reds got burned then, hopefully it's the other way this time


Traded Smoky Burgess, Harvey Haddix and Don Hoak to Pittsburgh Pirates in exchange for Whammy Douglas, Jim Pendleton, Frank Thomas and John Powers.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 08:21 PM
Why haven't any othe sites become aware of this deal yet? Nothing on either the Reds or Pirates web site.

Could it be there might be a minor leaguer afterall, or just nobody is quick to get on it?

reds77
12-06-2005, 08:23 PM
I don't object to trading Casey, but this deal just seems like O'brien didn't make the effort to dump salary and acquire a useful player in return. Williams probably had a couple of good games against the Reds and Dan-O perceived Williams to be a dominating arm.

Reds4Life
12-06-2005, 08:23 PM
Why haven't any othe sites become aware of this deal yet? Nothing on either the Reds or Pirates web site.

Could it be there might be a minor leaguer afterall, or just nobody is quick to get on it?

Nothing will be on the team websites until it's officially announced, which won't take place until both players pass physicals.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 08:24 PM
Nothing on either the Reds or Pirates web site. probably because they don't have guys manning the templates around the clock.

Heath
12-06-2005, 08:24 PM
Pirate fans on MLB.com are 60/40 against it....lots of Dave Williams supporters...and pissed that Pirates blew 8 Mil for an below-average power 1b.

:dunno:

Topcat
12-06-2005, 08:26 PM
This deal im pleased by because williams will make the reds staff in atleast 1 of the 11 pitcher slots. The cash savings may make other deals flexible. Sorry but losing Casey to me is an upgrade no matter what. just a piece of the puzzle to right the ship. One deal may preclude others. An example this trade now could cover say the aquiring of batista and bush from totronto in exchange for kearns.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 08:27 PM
This from the Pirates web site:


12/06/2005 7:44 PM ET
Pirates close to bringing Casey home
Williams offered to Cincinnati in exchange for first baseman
By Ed Eagle / MLB.com

DALLAS -- According to a pair of published reports, the Pittsburgh Pirates and Cincinnati Reds are in the final stages of completing a deal that would send first baseman Sean Casey to the Bucs for left-handed starter Dave Williams.
By adding the Pittsburgh native Casey, 31, the Pirates address their need for a left-handed run producer at first base to bat behind All-Star Jason Bay. A three-time National League All-Star, Casey has a .305 career batting average with 118 home runs and 605 RBIs in nine big-league seasons, eight of which he spent in Cincinnati.

Casey has enjoyed particular success playing in front of his friends and family at PNC Park. In 29 games at PNC Park, Casey has batted .355 with five home runs and 24 RBIs. He has often said that the highlight of his big-league career came when he took Todd Ritchie deep on April 9, 2001 for the first hit in PNC Park history.

"I was so pumped up for that game," Casey recalled later. "Opening Day in my hometown. The beautiful new ballpark. My parents were there. My sister came in. My wife. My friends. Willie Stargell had just died. He was one of my heroes ...

"Until I play on a championship team, that will be hard to beat."

The Pirates have long coveted Casey, but financial concerns had previously stood in the way. However, with a payroll expected to be boosted by approximately $15 million to nearly $50 million in 2006, the team is able to absorb the $8.5 million Casey is set to earn next season in what will be the final year of his contract.

The 26-year-old Williams, who was healthy for the first time since undergoing shoulder surgery in 2002, led the Pirates staff with 10 wins in 2005. After establishing career highs in wins, starts (25) and innings (138 2/3), Williams signed a one-year deal worth $1.4 million in October.

Ed Eagle is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 08:27 PM
and pissed that Pirates blew 8 Mil for an below-average power 1b. How many puking smiles are they using?

Caveat Emperor
12-06-2005, 08:29 PM
How many puking smiles are they using?

You're assuming there's any vomit left in those fans that hasn't already been expelled in the last 10 years.

We just got a crummy prospect...they just took on a contract even WE were looking to dump.

Remember folks, it could always be worse.

Aronchis
12-06-2005, 08:32 PM
As I said earlier, the long term ramifications mean nothing since Casey is a FA, but the 2006 ramifications may be interesting.
1)Is Milton kicked out of the rotation now that they have 2 lefties set in Claussen and Williams?
2)Who is the other righty to team with Harang?
3)Does Larue get traded and free up more money?
4)Will one of the other OF's get dealt as well?
5)Does DanO wear drag into the meetings?;)

blark11
12-06-2005, 08:34 PM
im just glad i never have to see sean casey ground into another double play as a red again

Caseyfan21
12-06-2005, 08:35 PM
I wonder how many #4 and #5 starters is enough for one team to have. Throw Williams in there with Claussen, Hudson and friends and it looks like another year of Harang, Milton and 3 #5's. How we aren't getting a prospect and paying money to them too is beyond my comprehension.

We need pitching but we also need to go after some good pitchers. How a team without a general manager can get a #1 starter and the Reds are never mentioned is ridiculous. The Reds need to deal one of the outfielders and get some kind of top of the rotation starter and use this money for it.

They need to use this money for something, if not then this trade is a total bust and DanO can wait for the backlash to knock him out of town.

Willy
12-06-2005, 08:35 PM
Why would anyone rather have a middle of the road prospect,than a guy who ahs already in the majors? The prospect has about a 30% chance of ever making it.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 08:35 PM
We just got a crummy prospect...they just took on a contract even WE were looking to dumpWhose VORP of 12.3 would have been 3rd on the Reds.

Branch Rickey would have dumped Casey last winter, Williams has a better chance of improving his game and overplaying his contract, Casey would have to have his best career ever to justify his .

It's baseball tetris and it was time to move Casey.

Reds4Life
12-06-2005, 08:37 PM
Reports out of Pittsburg are saying we are picking up $2 MILLION of Casey's salary. :angry:

This better not be true.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 08:37 PM
Now this from the Reds web site:


12/06/2005 8:35 PM ET
Reds reportedly close to Williams deal
Trade with Pittsburgh would send Casey home
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

DALLAS -- It's been the Reds' quest to improve their pitching staff during the Winter Meetings and Tuesday night, they appeared close to swinging their first trade.
Several media reports have said Cincinnati has agreed to send first baseman Sean Casey to the Pirates for left-handed pitcher Dave Williams.

Reds general manager Dan O'Brien would not confirm the rumor.

"We have no announcement at this time," O'Brien said. "I'm well aware of the rumors. When it comes to specific transactions in this organization, until we have a finalized deal, we do not comment."

In 2005, Williams was 10-11 with a 4.41 ERA in 25 starts and a career-high 138 2/3 innings. He walked 58 and struck out 88 batters. He will earn $1.4 million next season in a one-year contract signed in October with Pittsburgh.

With Casey set to make $8.5 million next season, the move will clear payroll space for Cincinnati and allow the club to shift outfielder Adam Dunn to first base. Casey, who spent the past eight seasons with the Reds and was a popular player with fans and in the clubhouse, batted .312 with nine homers and 58 RBIs in 2005. The 31-year-old Pittsburgh-area native is a lifetime .305 hitter.

The Reds rotation ranked last in the National League in ERA this year. The 26-year-old is 17-26 with a 4.25 ERA over his four-year big league career, all with the Pirates.

Mark Sheldon is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

BrooklynRedz
12-06-2005, 08:38 PM
probably because they don't have guys manning the templates around the clock.

funny...but not true.

bleedsred
12-06-2005, 08:38 PM
One big positive is that Casey will be taking all those double plays he has hit into the last few seasons with him to the Pirates.

Falls City Beer
12-06-2005, 08:38 PM
Reports out of Pittsburg are saying we are picking up $2 MILLION of Casey's salary. :angry:

This better not be true.


Wow. That bites anus. And folks, you know Castellini's given the silent nod for this to happen, right?

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 08:39 PM
Reports out of Pittsburg are saying we are picking up $2 MILLION of Casey's salary. :angry:

This better not be true.
I've seen the same thing.....

westofyou
12-06-2005, 08:41 PM
And folks, you know Castellini's given the silent nod for this to happen, right?Yes so he is the devil, meanwhile Carl ok'd the extension so he's even worse by your logic.

bleedsred
12-06-2005, 08:43 PM
sorry blark11...missed your post but I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one glad to see Casey go. As far as how much the Reds pay I could really care less, its not my money and Dan O will blunder any long term deals in the near future anyway.

Falls City Beer
12-06-2005, 08:43 PM
Yes so he is the devil, meanwhile Carl ok'd the extension so he's even worse by your logic.

I'd prefer not to use Carl as a yardstick for anything.

traderumor
12-06-2005, 08:43 PM
Reports out of Pittsburg are saying we are picking up $2 MILLION of Casey's salary. :angry:

This better not be true.

All I get from having to pay some of Casey's salary is a wet burp. I think that warrants at least a prospect, but then 8.5 vs. 1.4 is quite a salary differential when receiving an average pitcher for an overpaid, below average first baseman. I can see where Pittsburgh has a little leverage there.

It also makes the Boston rumor very unlikely. I'll at least give DanO that much credit if he had the rumored deal offered and chose a middling lefty over a young, major league ready corner infielder and an average major league pitcher.

GoReds
12-06-2005, 08:44 PM
Just wondering if DanO has a plan for dumping Milton somewhere. Couple that together with the Casey salary dump and things could get interesting later.

Danny Serafini
12-06-2005, 08:45 PM
$8.5 million from Casey's deal
-$2 million sent to Pittsburgh
-$1.4 million for Williams' salary
------------------------------
$5.1 million now available to work with.

I can live with that.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 08:46 PM
Almost 60 years to the day

http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/mc.jpg

BrooklynRedz
12-06-2005, 08:46 PM
There's a hold-up on this trade. Not going to happen tonight.

Aronchis
12-06-2005, 08:47 PM
There's a hold-up on this trade. Not going to happen tonight.

Stop the presses

Matt700wlw
12-06-2005, 08:47 PM
I think it's pending physicals...

westofyou
12-06-2005, 08:48 PM
There's a hold-up on this trade. Not going to happen tonight.
Physicals, they both have shoulder issues.... they're going to meet in Canton and Indian Wrestle.. right?

Caveat Emperor
12-06-2005, 08:48 PM
There's a hold-up on this trade. Not going to happen tonight.

They're waiting for Sean Casey to run from Terminal A to Baggage Claim at Pittsburgh International before they can confirm the deal.

Could be a while.

traderumor
12-06-2005, 08:48 PM
$8.5 million from Casey's deal
-$2 million sent to Pittsburgh
-$1.4 million for Williams' salary
------------------------------
$5.1 million now available to work with.

I can live with that.Indeed.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 08:50 PM
There's a hold-up on this trade. Not going to happen tonight.
Physicals or something else?

Reds Fanatic
12-06-2005, 08:52 PM
Physicals or something else?
According to one of the ESPN writers it is just physicals.

Puffy
12-06-2005, 08:56 PM
Maybe Dave Williams flunks the physical and the Pirates have to throw in someone else? Please.

Or maybe they just do it straight up, without the two million.

Man, I wish I was a doctor right about now.

traderumor
12-06-2005, 08:58 PM
They're waiting for Sean Casey to run from Terminal A to Baggage Claim at Pittsburgh International before they can confirm the deal.

Could be a while.Maybe he will be available for hugs at the Reds Hall of Fame before he goes, too.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 09:02 PM
This from John Fay, with Casey's quotes bolded:


Tuesday, December 6, 2005
Reds update
Reds trade Casey to Pirates

By John Fay

DALLAS – The Reds might not confirm until Wednesday morning, but the club has reached an agreement to trade Sean Casey to the Pittsburgh Pirates for left-handed pitcher Dave Williams.


Williams, 26, was 10-10 with a 4.41 ERA last season.


The move opens up first base for Adam Dunn.


General manager Dan O’Brien generally doesn’t comment on trades until they are officially approved by Major League Baseball, but a Reds official confirmed the trade had been agreed upon.

“My head is spinning. I haven’t heard anything from the Pirates,” Casey, a Pittsburgh-area native, said when reached at home by a Pittsburgh reporter. “I’ll talk more later.”

He later told The Enquirer: “God, dude, I’m not ready to say anything yet. My head’s spinning.”

Casey said he’s going to get a physical Wednesday. The deal depends on the physical.

Reds Fanatic
12-06-2005, 09:03 PM
Got this paragraph from an article on the Pirates web site. Does not sound good.


The 26-year-old Williams, who was healthy for the first time since undergoing shoulder surgery in 2002, led the Pirates staff with 10 wins in 2005. After establishing career highs in wins, starts (25) and innings (138 2/3), Williams signed a one-year deal worth $1.4 million in October.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 09:10 PM
Scott Sloan at WLW just said an announcement around 10:30 is planned.

Is this true?

Matt700wlw
12-06-2005, 09:11 PM
Unless he knows something I don't....

Heath
12-06-2005, 09:12 PM
So....ummm....well.....is it Milton to the Sox for Youkilis & Arroyo?????

Then David Wells to the Padres for Mark Loretta?

:dunno:

buckeyenut
12-06-2005, 09:13 PM
Only thing I will say here is that I really hope the Reds go a little more out of the box and push Jr to first. I also hope if we are paying 2M, that we get a prospect like Gorzonelly or someone else thrown into the deal.

Heath
12-06-2005, 09:13 PM
Scott Sloan at WLW just said an announcement around 10:30 is planned.

Is this true?


Scott Sloan's talking baseball??? What's next, the Truckin Bozo playing Polkas???? :D :rolleyes:

westofyou
12-06-2005, 09:14 PM
Got this paragraph from an article on the Pirates web site. Does not sound good.
Sean isn't without issues as well.

From BP isn the past


Sean Casey's shoulder is supposedly fine, but he's been dealing with a groin problem.

Several questions came to me regarding the fact that Sean Casey is working on his third concussion in recent memory. Many feel that concussions and their effects are cumulative. This is more a problem in collision sports, especially hockey, but the recurrence does force the Reds to be a bit more conservative than they would otherwise.

Heath
12-06-2005, 09:15 PM
Folks, nine pages of this thread, and we haven't discussed the main thing....

What's George Grande thinking? How much kleenex can one man use?

oregonred
12-06-2005, 09:15 PM
Whose VORP of 12.3 would have been 3rd on the Reds.

Branch Rickey would have dumped Casey last winter, Williams has a better chance of improving his game and overplaying his contract, Casey would have to have his best career ever to justify his .

It's baseball tetris and it was time to move Casey.

WOY -- Your simple logic is like pushing a boulder uphill around here. For the past five years the Mayor was villified on an hourly basis as being less than zero value and to be moved at all costs. Now that it happens the "less than zero value" and "dump Casey at all cost" crowd thinks he is worth a top-tier, young rotation piece.

How will Dunn react to playing 1B everyday? Who will contribute the 400-500 AB"s that will be needed When Pena/kearns are on the DL in 2006 -- in addition to the 200AB's needed for KGJ? Will the Reds take the $5.1-7.1M and improve the club?

Sean -- Thanks for your Reds career and best of luck in Pittsburgh and beyond :beerme:

RBA
12-06-2005, 09:16 PM
Got this paragraph from an article on the Pirates web site. Does not sound good.


Wow, talk about getting hosed, if true. That 8,000,000 extra to spend is shriking away faster than George Cantanza's privates in a cold shower.

oregonred
12-06-2005, 09:17 PM
Wow, talk about getting hosed, if true. That 8,000,000 extra to spend is shriking away faster than George Cantanza's privates in a cold shower.


Please clarify? You lost me...

schroomytunes
12-06-2005, 09:19 PM
Well, I for one am sad to see Casey go, but in all reality, he had to be the odd man out. We simply cannot afford to let Kearns or Dunn go, they are still young and relatively cheap. Whereas Casey is 31, overpaid, and is lacking of power, and is a free agent at the end of "06. Granted I thought we could have gotten a young stud for him, but think about it we get a guy that won 10 games with an ERA of 4.40 is young(27) and most importantly the deal saved us anywhere between 5-6million. Our lineup will be more potent with both Pena and Kearns everyday. I think now we still have to move 1-2 more guys before the season. I for one would start wooing Matt Morris of the Cardinals.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 09:19 PM
WOY -- Your simple logic is like pushing a boulder uphill around here.
If Dave Williams bombs it will hurt less than if Sean Casey bombed.
http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/mr.gif

Reds Nd2
12-06-2005, 09:20 PM
Unless he knows something I don't....

So is that a yes on the announcement Matt?

RBA
12-06-2005, 09:21 PM
Please clarify? You lost me...

$8.5 million from Casey's deal
-$2 million sent to Pittsburgh
-$1.4 million for Williams' salary
------------------------------
$5.1 million now available to work with.


It's at 5.1 million right now. It started out being over 7.5 million savings.

Falls City Beer
12-06-2005, 09:22 PM
I couldn't possibly care less about Dave Williams. He's a non-factor. I'm concerned about: 1. how much the Reds save. 2. how they use those savings.

Phhhl
12-06-2005, 09:23 PM
Love Sean, but love the deal too. His contract is something few teams can afford. Williams might not even break camp with the big leaguers, but that matters little. How the extra cash is allocated is the key. Personally, I'd tack that money onto whatever the new ownership is (hopefully) planning for Dunn.

I like the suggestion of moving Jr. to first instead of Adam.

savafan
12-06-2005, 09:23 PM
$8.5 million from Casey's deal
-$2 million sent to Pittsburgh
-$1.4 million for Williams' salary
------------------------------
$5.1 million now available to work with.


It's at 5.1 million right now. It started out being over 7.5 million savings.

In this market $5.1 million buys you one and a half mediocre middle relievers

NC Reds
12-06-2005, 09:25 PM
I have advocated trading Casey in the past, but I would hope the Pirates toss in a prospect. I can't get excited about this deal. However, if the money is used to sign Dunn, I can see the logic and would approve.

I too would move Griffey to first to protect his legs.

Good luck Sean! You are a class act.

Reds Nd2
12-06-2005, 09:25 PM
Does this deal improve the perceived value of the Reds outfielders? With the rumor of Dunn to 1B, will O'Brien be able to acquire more than he would have otherwise in a trade of Peña or Kearns?

westofyou
12-06-2005, 09:26 PM
In this market $5.1 million buys you one and a half mediocre middle relievers
And pays for the Reds SS, Freel and Belise

RBA
12-06-2005, 09:27 PM
I don't believe Casey is healthy. So I think the deal will be scratched. I hope I'm wrong, because it would be good to dump his salary and this seems like the best DanO can do.

oregonred
12-06-2005, 09:27 PM
In this market $5.1 million buys you one and a half mediocre middle relievers

Or helps to make sure Larue comes back into the fold for 2006 plus some crumbs leftover to find you a Reggie Sanders like filler for the 500-600ABs you need to fill in at 1B and the OF...

westofyou
12-06-2005, 09:27 PM
Does this deal improve the perceived value of the Reds outfielders? With the rumor of Dunn to 1B, will O'Brien be able to acquire more than he would have otherwise in a trade of Peña or Kearns?
Currently Valentine could be sharing 1b with Dunn, going against RH when that happens.

Falls City Beer
12-06-2005, 09:29 PM
I don't believe Casey is healthy.

I agree. But I also think a physical can miss a lot of ailing.

reds44
12-06-2005, 09:32 PM
I don't think Dunn or Jr. is going to 1st base.

We are not done dealing yet.

tsj017
12-06-2005, 09:34 PM
Traded Smoky Burgess, Harvey Haddix and Don Hoak to Pittsburgh Pirates in exchange for Whammy Douglas, Jim Pendleton, Frank Thomas and John Powers.

It'd be cool if we traded Casey for a guy named Whammy.

Without Casey, who's going to cry whenever a Red gets traded?

BrooklynRedz
12-06-2005, 09:35 PM
I don't think Dunn or Jr. is going to 1st base.

We are not done dealing yet.

I agree.

KronoRed
12-06-2005, 09:35 PM
I don't think Dunn or Jr. is going to 1st base.

We are not done dealing yet.
Yep, and this is where RZ is going to unite in rage, I see Dan O dealing one of OF's for a weak hitting 1b.

cincrazy
12-06-2005, 09:36 PM
i'm one if casey's biggest fans. didn't want to see him traded to begin with. but even if we had traded him for actual players that could help us, i would have at least understood where the team was coming from. but sean casey for dave williams? we can not do better than dave freaking williams? absolutely speechless. way to load up on crappy lefthanders dan'o

Heath
12-06-2005, 09:37 PM
Yep, and this is where RZ is going to unite in rage, I see Dan O dealing one of OF's for a weak hitting 1b.

Carlos Pena's available :yikes:

westofyou
12-06-2005, 09:38 PM
BTW LaRue is now the last guy to play on the 99 team still with the Reds.

reds44
12-06-2005, 09:38 PM
We could always go after Doug Min(I am not even going to try to spell that). He is a great fielder, and could save alot of errors by FeLo and EE. Then you could deal Pena or Kearns (hopefully Pena) for pitching. Doug doesn't have a good bat, but we don't really need one.

That all depends on how much $ he wants though.

CougarQuest
12-06-2005, 09:38 PM
We are not done dealing yet.
What's scary is O'Brien is the one dealing.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 09:39 PM
What's scary is O'Brien is the one dealing.As if it could get any worse


2001 5th 66 96 .407 27
2002 3rd 78 84 .481 19
2003 5th 69 93 .426 19
2004 4th 76 86 .469 29
2005 5th 73 89 .451 27

wheels
12-06-2005, 09:39 PM
It's fine with me even if it's only 5.1 million in savings.

That can be used lots of different ways.

Hopefully it gets Dunn signed long term.

Hopefully.

dman
12-06-2005, 09:40 PM
I see this as being a last hurrah kind of thing for Lindner. New ownership hasn't taken over yet, and DanO's job may be in jeopardy. You know when you have an unpopular boss who is on the outs and they do everything they can to wreck the place and the morale before they go, that is what's going down here I feel. And I couldn't agree more with Reds44 and BrooklynRedz, I don't think the dealing is done yet neither. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Lindner let DanO go to the winter meetings and get rid of all of our talent for peanuts.

reds44
12-06-2005, 09:42 PM
I see this as being a last hurrah kind of thing for Lindner. New ownership hasn't taken over yet, and DanO's job may be in jeopardy. You know when you have an unpopular boss who is on the outs and they do everything they can to wreck the place and the morale before they go, that is what's going down here I feel. And I couldn't agree more with Reds44 and BrooklynRedz, I don't think the dealing is done yet neither. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Lindner let DanO go to the winter meetings and get rid of all of our talent for peanuts.

That isn't happening. I am sure Dan'o will want to work in MLB again, and that is a great way to kill that.

CougarQuest
12-06-2005, 09:42 PM
www.madeupstuff.con

"From a National League executive at the winter meetings who wishes to remain nameless, "Dan O'Brien has known for a while that he is going to be fired when the new ownership is approved by MLB. Apparently he has figured out how to stick one in them before he goes".

reds44
12-06-2005, 09:43 PM
And really how can we complain about trading anyone? We finished in 5th place last year. You can't just stick with what you have. No matter what trade we make some people will be unhappy. You don't normally see a trade when everyone is happy.

Aronchis
12-06-2005, 09:43 PM
I see this as being a last hurrah kind of thing for Lindner. New ownership hasn't taken over yet, and DanO's job may be in jeopardy. You know when you have an unpopular boss who is on the outs and they do everything they can to wreck the place and the morale before they go, that is what's going down here I feel. And I couldn't agree more with Reds44 and BrooklynRedz, I don't think the dealing is done yet neither. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Lindner let DanO go to the winter meetings and get rid of all of our talent for peanuts.

Casey is a fading talent. His injury issues are legit.

Team Clark
12-06-2005, 09:44 PM
www.madeupstuff.con

"From a National League executive at the winter meetings who wishes to remain nameless, "Dan O'Brien has known for a while that he is going to be fired when the new ownership is approved by MLB. Apparently he has figured out how to stick one in them before he goes".


That list will also include Tim Naehring, Dean Taylor and SEVERAL FO employees. Did I just hear myself giggle?:laugh:

dman
12-06-2005, 09:46 PM
www.madeupstuff.con

"From a National League executive at the winter meetings who wishes to remain nameless, "Dan O'Brien has known for a while that he is going to be fired when the new ownership is approved by MLB. Apparently he has figured out how to stick one in them before he goes".
Not only is he sticking one in them, but sticking one in the fans also. Just go ahead and break it off too DanO

oregonred
12-06-2005, 09:47 PM
I see this as being a last hurrah kind of thing for Lindner. New ownership hasn't taken over yet, and DanO's job may be in jeopardy. You know when you have an unpopular boss who is on the outs and they do everything they can to wreck the place and the morale before they go, that is what's going down here I feel. And I couldn't agree more with Reds44 and BrooklynRedz, I don't think the dealing is done yet neither. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Lindner let DanO go to the winter meetings and get rid of all of our talent for peanuts.

Was this before or after the black Huey's were seen flying over the Metroplex??

C'mon people:bang:

Topcat
12-06-2005, 09:47 PM
In this market $5.1 million buys you one and a half mediocre middle relievers


Actually my thought is since it is a non sexy market come late feb. there will be deal pllayers to be had on the cheap. Who knows maybe the reds can randa them and get prospects back come trade deadline. Unless you actually believe the reds will be world series contender this year?

Heath
12-06-2005, 09:48 PM
As if it could get any worse


2001 5th 66 96 .407 27
2002 3rd 78 84 .481 19
2003 5th 69 93 .426 19
2004 4th 76 86 .469 29
2005 5th 73 89 .451 27


1982 6th 61 101 .377 28


Sorry woy...

;)

Reds Fanatic
12-06-2005, 09:48 PM
A couple of more pieces of information from the Pirates web site:


The Pirates have long coveted Casey, but financial concerns had previously stood in the way. However, with a payroll expected to be boosted by approximately $15 million to nearly $50 million in 2006, the team was able to absorb the $8.5 million Casey is set to earn next season in what will be the final year of his contract.


Hopefully that is right about them absorbing the whole amount. Though that may just be speculation on their part.

Here is some more about Williams injury history and a quote about joining the Reds.


"It's weird going to another team in our division," Williams said. "I'll work hard this offseason to be prepared and look forward to helping the Reds."

Williams made his big-league debut in 2001 and was one of the few bright spots for a Pirates team that lost 100 games. In 22 appearances, including 18 starts, he posted a 3-7 mark and a 3.71 ERA.

Williams attempted to pitch through shoulder stiffness the following spring before finally undergoing surgery to repair a torn left labrum on July 11, 2002. Williams spent the next two years rehabbing at Triple-A Nashville and did not pitch in the big leagues again until Aug. 5, 2004.

dman
12-06-2005, 09:49 PM
Was this before or after the black Huey's were seen flying over the Metroplex??

C'mon people:bang:
My God, I can hardly contain myself from the laughter. Black Hueys, whew!!!! Freakin good one dude.

savafan
12-06-2005, 09:50 PM
Actually my thought is since it is a non sexy market come late feb. there will be deal pllayers to be had on the cheap. Who knows maybe the reds can randa them and get prospects back come trade deadline. Unless you actually believe the reds will be world series contender this year?

In the NL Central, honestly anything is possible. The Cardinals aren't as strong as they were, getting older and didn't get A.J. Burnett.

The Cubs' pitchers will get wrecked by Dusty Baker.

The Astros' offense stinks, and Clemens may retire.

The strongest team in this division next year may just be the Brewers.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 09:50 PM
1982 6th 61 101 .377 28


Sorry woy...

;)I lived in San Francisco that year, they lost the chance to win the west the last day, Morgan was rocking their world and I was soaking it up as a 3rd party, it was a pleasent summer.

gilpdawg
12-06-2005, 09:50 PM
I think it was time for Casey to be moved. All bets are off until I actually see Williams pitch. I would just like to take the time to say thank you to Sean Casey for the years he spent with the Cincinnati Reds, as he's one of my favorite all-time Reds. Man plays the game the way it should be played. He's like a kid. I'm gonna miss him, but I may not miss all the GIDPs.

Caveat Emperor
12-06-2005, 09:50 PM
One thing is for certain -- It's gonna be really bizzare to see Sean Casey in anything other than a Reds uniform.

:dunno:

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 09:51 PM
What is our last memory of Sean Casey on the baseball field as a Cincinnati Red?

Getting knocked cold by a pitch in the head.

:(

westofyou
12-06-2005, 09:52 PM
CINCINNATI REDS
CAREER
1B
AT BATS >= 3000
OPS vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
RUNS CREATED/GAME vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

AVERAGE AVG AB OPS RC/G
1 Jake Beckley .325 3465 .112 1.74
2 Sean Casey .305 4007 .056 0.87
3 Hal Morris .305 3382 .059 0.88
4 Ted Kluszewski .302 4961 .116 1.70
5 Jake Daubert .301 3121 .026 0.13
6 Frank McCormick .301 4787 .071 0.74
7 John Reilly .294 4412 .117 1.89
8 Doc Hoblitzell .283 3172 .034 0.35
9 Tony Perez .276 3796 .087 1.04
10 Dan Driessen .267 3881 .064 0.97

OPS OPS AB OPS RC/G
1 Ted Kluszewski .869 4961 .116 1.70
2 Sean Casey .834 4007 .056 0.87
3 Jake Beckley .818 3465 .112 1.74
4 Hal Morris .807 3382 .059 0.88
5 Tony Perez .801 3796 .087 1.04
6 Frank McCormick .788 4787 .071 0.74
7 Dan Driessen .785 3881 .064 0.97
8 John Reilly .780 4412 .117 1.89
9 Jake Daubert .761 3121 .026 0.13
10 Doc Hoblitzell .727 3172 .034 0.35

RUNS CREATED/GAME RC/G AB OPS RC/G
1 John Reilly 7.87 4412 .117 1.89
2 Jake Beckley 7.13 3465 .112 1.74
3 Ted Kluszewski 6.73 4961 .116 1.70
4 Sean Casey 6.14 4007 .056 0.87
5 Hal Morris 5.74 3382 .059 0.88
6 Dan Driessen 5.47 3881 .064 0.97
7 Frank McCormick 5.46 4787 .071 0.74
8 Tony Perez 5.44 3796 .087 1.04
9 Jake Daubert 4.92 3121 .026 0.13
10 Doc Hoblitzell 4.84 3172 .034 0.35

Patrick Bateman
12-06-2005, 09:53 PM
What is our last memory of Sean Casey on the baseball field as a Cincinnati Red?

Getting knocked cold by a pitch in the head.

:(

Wasn't it an elbow caused be an errant EE throw or something like that?

Falls City Beer
12-06-2005, 09:53 PM
In the NL Central, honestly anything is possible. The Cardinals aren't as strong as they were, getting older and didn't get A.J. Burnett.

The Cubs' pitchers will get wrecked by Dusty Baker.

The Astros' offense stinks, and Clemens may retire.

The strongest team in this division next year may just be the Brewers.

Oh sure, some things in the Central are uncertain. But not the Reds being basement dwellers. That much is certain.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 09:54 PM
What is our last memory of Sean Casey on the baseball field as a Cincinnati Red?

Getting knocked cold by a pitch in the head.

:(No, wasn't it getting knocked cold by a judy hitters elbow?

I missed that and I never saw a replay either.

Reds Fanatic
12-06-2005, 09:56 PM
No, wasn't it getting knocked cold by a judy hitters elbow?

I missed that and I never saw a replay either.

Yes it was a collision at 1st base that knocked him out. I think he was trying to field an errant throw and the baserunner ran into him.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 09:58 PM
Yes, that's right.....thanks for correcting me.

RBA
12-06-2005, 09:58 PM
Time to take a break and watch CBS for the next hour. ;)

Marty and Joe
12-06-2005, 10:00 PM
Time to take a break and watch CBS for the next hour. ;)

A man with priorities ;)

:beerme:

savafan
12-06-2005, 10:00 PM
Oh sure, some things in the Central are uncertain. But not the Reds being basement dwellers. That much is certain.

Not necessarily, they just have to win a lot of 20-19 games. ;)

flyer85
12-06-2005, 10:03 PM
Near as I can tell DanO did at best an OK deal if the Reds are paying money. He should have been able to get a decent minor leaguer thrown in. Williams is nothing but cannon fodder.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 10:04 PM
Sloan is still talking about a 10:30 announcement.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

johngalt
12-06-2005, 10:04 PM
Quick question for everyone:

A few people talking about moving Griffey to first base instead of Dunn. Are any of you concerned that the strain of stretch for errant throws or reaching for balls might be more likely to cause a leg injury (muscle pull, strain, etc.) than his work in the outfield? I think the outfield would still be more of a risk, but I think there's still gonna be quite a risk at first in those kinds of situations.

Reds Nd2
12-06-2005, 10:05 PM
Sloan is still talking about a 10:30 announcement.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Let you know in about 25 minutes. :D

reds44
12-06-2005, 10:06 PM
I am 100% sure Junior isn't going anywhere. He will be a CFer as long as he is in Cincy. And for some reason, I just get the feeling Dunn won't be our 1st baseman either.

Marty and Joe
12-06-2005, 10:06 PM
Thank you Sean Casey - for some great years. No one represents all that is good about the game better. A great ambassador. A good role model. There need to be more like you.

I appreciate the way he approaches and plays the game. I will root for his success when the Pirates are not playing the Reds.

I do think that this move was, however, in the best interests of the Reds long-term if they can redeploy that money well.

savafan
12-06-2005, 10:07 PM
I am 100% sure Junior isn't going anywhere. He will be a CFer as long as he is in Cincy. And for some reason, I just get the feeling Dunn won't be our 1st baseman either.

Erubiel Durazo? :confused:

Ravenlord
12-06-2005, 10:09 PM
Erubiel Durazo? :confused:
Frank Thomas.:evil:

flyer85
12-06-2005, 10:12 PM
Quick question for everyone:

A few people talking about moving Griffey to first base instead of Dunn. Are any of you concerned that the strain of stretch for errant throws or reaching for balls might be more likely to cause a leg injury (muscle pull, strain, etc.) than his work in the outfield? I think the outfield would still be more of a risk, but I think there's still gonna be quite a risk at first in those kinds of situations.Nope ... lot less strain on those very old legs playing 1B. Jr is a great athlete, he will have no problem playing first.

In addition, I would still try and deal Pena and try to acquire a CF. CF was a black hole defensively last year. Jrs wheels are toast but he can still swing the bat. Take the wear and tear of CF away and he might have a shot of playing 350-400 games over the next 3 years.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 10:12 PM
I'm wondering if WLW's announcement is just the Seg Man coming in to do the sports and "announce" the trade.

savafan
12-06-2005, 10:12 PM
Frank Thomas.:evil:

Thought that one myself.

Jason Romano :p:

Matt700wlw
12-06-2005, 10:19 PM
It's a done deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2250330

Sean will talk to us on the record tomorrow

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 10:21 PM
Marty Brenneman's comments on WLW after the 11:00 news.....

kbrake
12-06-2005, 10:21 PM
OK I know that people are really turning fast on this trade now that it has come out the the Reds are sending money to the Pirates as well. I know that most people on here dont give Dan a chance and not saying that he deserves one after some of the deals but maybe this was a deal he had to make. Perhaps he just couldnt get the value he thought he should for one of the 4 OF's so he did whatever it took to move Casey. I still think that Kearns/Pena/ Dunn one of them will be traded, but do we really know enough of what is going on? I still think people wouldnt be going so insane if they hadnt seen the Arroyo/Youkilis scenario.

flyer85
12-06-2005, 10:25 PM
DanO is probably going to get trashed by the media. This trade is an OK deal but DanO is not going to get the benefit of the doubt because of his track record and because of the status of Casey.

CrackerJack
12-06-2005, 10:27 PM
Yep he's going to get hung by the talk show ranters and hosts at least.

Maybe this is a trade you force your dead duck GM to do now, as opposed to having a new one do it later and risk alienating the public again as they did with the last firesale.

I really have no major issues with it, had to be done, just another step, another slooow step by DanO.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 10:29 PM
The Bad Boy is going to be on WLW after the news break....

Caveat Emperor
12-06-2005, 10:30 PM
DanO is probably going to get trashed by the media. This trade is an OK deal but DanO is not going to get the benefit of the doubt because of his track record and because of the status of Casey.

Well, from a PR standpoint, it sets him up nicely as the "fall guy" when the new ownership comes in and starts axing people.

By virtue of the timing of approval of the sale, the new ownership gets to avoid having "selling off the Mayor" on their resume for year one.

flyer85
12-06-2005, 10:31 PM
Smart move by the incoming ownership group. Have DanO be the fall guy for trading Casey and endear yourself by then firing the evil DanO.

Gainesville Red
12-06-2005, 10:32 PM
I agree w/ Cracker Jack, I think this is a move that will obviously upset the general public, and new ownership knows that. So make the guy on his way out do it, be the bad guy, then bring in a new guy. Also, I don't think Dunn will be the first baseman. Might mean they try to keep Larue, move Valentin to first? Still trade Kearns/Pena? What do you think? (Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about.)

LoganBuck
12-06-2005, 10:33 PM
I would like to say that I wish Sean Casey the best. I hope he has a fine career, and he gets to stay with his hometown team and be happy. He has been a outstanding citizen for the Reds for years.

That being said, I think this is a good move. Lets see how this pans out over the next few days. The PayFlex alone is a tremendous piece of ammo. Put it with the savings from Graves/Dlo/Randa and either the Reds dumped ~13 Million or they now have some room to make a run at a real pitcher.

Aronchis
12-06-2005, 10:34 PM
Smart move by the incoming ownership group. Have DanO be the fall guy for trading Casey and endear yourself by then firing the evil DanO.

Yeah, that is the way I see it to. I wonder who else will be ousted by the lameduck GM?

WMR
12-06-2005, 10:35 PM
Cardinals manager Tony La Russa is especially high on Williams, calling him one of the NL's best left-handed starters last season even though the 26-year-old has only 17 career victories.

???

reds44
12-06-2005, 10:36 PM
What about briging in Jeff Conine to play 1st next year?

Topcat
12-06-2005, 10:39 PM
Casey's a good guy, but at 8.5 million ? Sorry as a gm i would have taken a bag of crap as a return. Dave Williams is to quote a phrase from rz scrappy. Is he good ? Nope is he atleast serviceable. Defintly and the truth be told this dude can be sent to many teams for a no nothing prospect and then the cash is free to sign Dunn longterm or even look for like 4 bargain rich aurillia's or relievers or reclamation 1 year projects.

kbrake
12-06-2005, 10:39 PM
Well who is already looking to get tickets for the game on April 6 with the Pirates coming to Cincinnati. I would love to be their for Casey's first game back, but hard to tell right now.

redsfan30
12-06-2005, 10:41 PM
Well who is already looking to get tickets for the game on April 6 with the Pirates coming to Cincinnati. I would love to be their for Casey's first game back, but hard to tell right now.
I was already looking at the Thursday game but I'm not sure I can do it. With all the money I'll have in Opening Day it may be tough to pull. But I'd sure love to try to be there to show Sean just how much he meant to this city.

TeamBoone
12-06-2005, 11:07 PM
On local channe 12 (CBS), they stated the trade allows Adam Dunn to move to 1b, alleviating the log jam in the OF. Don't know if they know that for sure (though they reported it as a done deal) or if they are speculating.

On local ABC, they said the new owners are responsible for this trade. They said Carl Lindner overlooked the high rate of hitting into double plays and lack of RBI production because Casey is, well, Casey. They followed that up with "not so of the new owners".

I will miss you so much Sean!

savafan
12-06-2005, 11:08 PM
The days of the teamsters are over, time to welcome in TeamPena and TeamHarang.