PDA

View Full Version : The topic of choice at one of the Lindner Christmas parties



Reds4Life
12-12-2005, 01:46 PM
Surprisingly wasn't the sale of the Reds or anything baseball related, it was the direction of UC and it's basketball program. Lindner and many of the top UC donors were in attendance, it seems they aren't happy with the direction of the University. Donations are down to the general fund and athletic department, the alumni association had to issue a statement last week about all the negative reactions they've been getting, and the general consensus among the big donors is if things continue on their present course Zimpher's contract WILL NOT be renewed when it expires in 2007. The $2 million dollar gift from the Marge Schott estate (the executor of the estate was at the party) was supposed to be $10 million, but was reduced to $2 given the state of things in Clifton, they may donate the remaining $8 million depending on how things progress. She was also confronted last week by the Foundations Board (influential alumni and donors) who called her on the carpet for donations suffering, she was not pleased they challenged her and is finally starting to realize her job might be on the line.

Also, it seems to be a forgone conclusion among the powers that be that Skip Prosser will be leaving Wake Forrest to become the next head coach at UC. He wants to return to Cincy, as do his 3 assistants, and from the way they were talking it's pretty much a done deal. Normally I would dismiss this as idle gossip, but these people have a lot of pull at UC, I tend to believe them.

Boss-Hog
12-12-2005, 01:49 PM
Personally, I'm very glad to hear all of that and hope Skip Prosser to UC materializes, even though I have my doubts. He currently has one of the better jobs in the country, and is well paid, so if this is true, he must really love Cincinnati...

Reds4Life
12-12-2005, 02:01 PM
Personally, I'm very glad to hear all of that and hope Skip Prosser to UC materializes, even though I have my doubts. He currently has one of the better jobs in the country, and is well paid, so if this is true, he must really love Cincinnati...

Prosser makes less at Wake than Huggins made at UC, if they gave him Huggins old deal it would be a pay increase. He and his wife still own a home here and his wife works at University hospital. Skip's mom still lives in this area, his wifes family lives in Lousiville, and all 3 of his assistants are from Cincy.

paintmered
12-12-2005, 02:11 PM
Prosser makes less at Wake than Huggins made at UC, if they gave him Huggins old deal it would be a pay increase. He and his wife still own a home here and his wife works at University hospital. Skip's mom still lives in this area, his wifes family lives in Lousiville, and all 3 of his assistants are from Cincy.

Yep, I was just going to mention that his wife still lives in Cincinnati. Right now from the sound of things, Skip is the one and only coach on the wish list. He would also be one of the few coaches who can instantly restore credibility to the program.

I think the only major issue from making this a reality is the amount of money it would take to buy out Skip's current contract at Wake. I've heard ballpark figures of $4 million just to get him released from Wake on top of his future UC contract. After all the money issues Nancy has gotten the university into, I'm not sure UC can afford to lure him away.

Reds4Life
12-12-2005, 02:15 PM
Yep, I was just going to mention that his wife still lives in Cincinnati. Right now from the sound of things, Skip is the one and only coach on the wish list. He would also be one of the few coaches who can instantly restore credibility to the program.

I think the only major issue from making this a reality is the amount of money it would take to buy out Skip's current contract at Wake. I've heard ballpark figures of $4 million just to get him released from Wake on top of his future UC contract. After all the money issues Nancy has gotten the university into, I'm not sure UC can afford to lure him away.

From what I heard the Lindners and other donors are prepared to make it happen (pay the $$$$$$$$$$$) if necessary.

paintmered
12-12-2005, 02:37 PM
From what I heard the Lindners and other donors are prepared to make it happen (pay the $$$$$$$$$$$) if necessary.

Well, that solves that problem. :eek: :laugh:

Reds4Life
12-12-2005, 02:43 PM
Well, that solves that problem. :eek: :laugh:

Some other, lesser known, names were being discussed and everyone kept saying "Who?" :laugh: I don't think a "rising star" from some mid-major school, or some assistant, is going to smooth these waters.

The athletic department is scared to death attendance figures are going to tank when they start Big East play and start losing by 20+ points per game.

paintmered
12-12-2005, 02:51 PM
Some other, lesser known, names were being discussed and everyone kept saying "Who?" :laugh: I don't think a "rising star" from some mid-major school, or some assistant, is going to smooth these waters.

The athletic department is scared to death attendance figures are going to tank when they start Big East play and start losing by 20+ points per game.

No, I don't think a mid-major will appease the masses either. From everything I've heard, even Nancy understands they need a big-name coach in there to ease the pressure on the budget.

RedFanAlways1966
12-12-2005, 02:52 PM
Interesting. So this leads me to ask you, UC-fans:

Will UC be better off in basketball if Skip Prosser (good enough to become an ACC coach) eventually becomes the coach than if Bob Huggins had never been let go?

A hindsight is 20-20 type of question of course. But maybe Queen Nancy will make the b-ball program better in the longrun with her work (her firing!)?

I didn't mind Huggs. And I am not a fan of Queen Nancy! Just curious to the opinions of the UC-fans on the future of UC with Prosser and the old "maybe it won't be so bad afterall" thing.

Reds4Life
12-12-2005, 03:13 PM
Interesting. So this leads me to ask you, UC-fans:

Will UC be better off in basketball if Skip Prosser (good enough to become an ACC coach) eventually becomes the coach than if Bob Huggins had never been let go?

A hindsight is 20-20 type of question of course. But maybe Queen Nancy will make the b-ball program better in the longrun with her work (her firing!)?

I didn't mind Huggs. And I am not a fan of Queen Nancy! Just curious to the opinions of the UC-fans on the future of UC with Prosser and the old "maybe it won't be so bad afterall" thing.

At this point I don't think anyone is looking that far ahead, right now everyone is concerned with not becoming a Big East bottom feeder and trying to minimize the damage. Nancy has informed the UC Athletic Director that any downtime, or rebuilding, in the UC program is "unacceptable". There is no doubt she miscalculated the situation she created and from what I've heard Nancy's job depends on how this thing turns out. If they hire a mid major coach and the program falls into a black hole she is done when her contract is up. The only way she can save her job by hiring a big fish. From the conversations I heard the donors have tolerated Nancy Zimpher up until now, but their patience is starting to grow thin.

I know the donors I heard talking are watching the Mayo/Walker situation very closely. They both have told UC they would still be interested if they hire a top coach. If they end up following Huggins to where ever he goes Zimpher is in for a world of trouble.

Another point I was told, Nancy refuses to do any PR to try and mend the fences. Many have suggested to her that she do a real interview (not the fluff piece on Ch 9) and answer the hard questions and also try to calm things down. She has declined to do so and informed people at the University she does not have to answer the questions of the fans or alumni.

gonelong
12-12-2005, 03:27 PM
She has declined to do so and informed people at the University she does not have to answer the questions of the fans or alumni.

That alone gets you fired in my book.

GL

RedFanAlways1966
12-12-2005, 03:42 PM
That alone gets you fired in my book.

GL

In my book as well. Thanks for the abnswer, R4Life!

paintmered
12-12-2005, 04:14 PM
Interesting. So this leads me to ask you, UC-fans:

Will UC be better off in basketball if Skip Prosser (good enough to become an ACC coach) eventually becomes the coach than if Bob Huggins had never been let go?

A hindsight is 20-20 type of question of course. But maybe Queen Nancy will make the b-ball program better in the longrun with her work (her firing!)?

I didn't mind Huggs. And I am not a fan of Queen Nancy! Just curious to the opinions of the UC-fans on the future of UC with Prosser and the old "maybe it won't be so bad afterall" thing.

I think UC eventually can regain its prominance as a marquee program if Skip returns to Cincinnati. No matter what happens, two full recruiting classes are lost due to this fiasco so there will be a period of transition.

Whether the UC program under Prosser will be more successful than Huggins teams, I don't really know. At this point, all I can ask for is credibility in a great conference.

SunDeck
12-12-2005, 04:30 PM
Bobby Lutz would be my choice. :eek:

It is really hard seeing a coach go from Tobacco road to UC. Cincinnati is a great college basketball town, thanks to Huggs and (insert XU coach names here), but coaching in Carolina is a different thing entirely, even if it's at Wake or NC State instead of UNC/Duke. Maybe I'm wrong...no, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Prosser to UC.

Crash Davis
12-12-2005, 04:38 PM
The Lutz men can play softball with the best of them.

Bobby is a fine coach too. I can't see him coming this far north...

Reds4Life
12-12-2005, 05:37 PM
Bobby Lutz would be my choice. :eek:

It is really hard seeing a coach go from Tobacco road to UC. Cincinnati is a great college basketball town, thanks to Huggs and (insert XU coach names here), but coaching in Carolina is a different thing entirely, even if it's at Wake or NC State instead of UNC/Duke. Maybe I'm wrong...no, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Prosser to UC.

Lutz has been publicly critical of Zimpher, he has no chance at this job. It's not hard to imagine Prosser leaving Wake when you factor in the family situation.

TeamBoone
12-12-2005, 05:40 PM
Last night on the 11 o'clock local news (NBC), they did an exclusive interview with Bob Huggins entitled Bob Huggins Tells His Side. This was the first interview he's given since his contract was official over. I watched and thought it was pretty good.

Here is the link to the VIDEO of this interview, given in four parts, if anyone is interested:

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/sports/index.html

dsmith421
12-12-2005, 10:03 PM
There is no doubt she miscalculated the situation she created and from what I've heard Nancy's job depends on how this thing turns out. If they hire a mid major coach and the program falls into a black hole she is done when her contract is up. The only way she can save her job by hiring a big fish.

I realize I've been critical of the pro-Huggins faction in the past, and I don't want to go down that road again. You folks are entitled to your own opinions, and frankly I've never been a big UC hoops fan although I am an alum.

I have no reason to disbelieve R4L's take on the situation, nor to doubt that his statements above are correct. Now let's leave the specifics of this situation behind for a second.

Does it seem ridiculous to anyone else that the president of a major state university, duly appointed by the trustees, is in jeopardy of losing his/her job due to a decision to fire an athletics coach? I mean, seriously, how screwed up are the priorities here? Since when is basketball the most important thing that UC does?

If Lindner and other donors are refusing to donate to the city's university due to spite occasioned by the firing of a basketball coach, then I would say that's as much a sad commentary on those people and their priorities as it is Dr. Zimpher's mishandling of the Huggins affair.

This is one man's opinion, but I can't be the only person associated with UC that feels this way. Or maybe I am, who knows.

Boss-Hog
12-13-2005, 07:49 AM
I realize I've been critical of the pro-Huggins faction in the past, and I don't want to go down that road again. You folks are entitled to your own opinions, and frankly I've never been a big UC hoops fan although I am an alum.

I have no reason to disbelieve R4L's take on the situation, nor to doubt that his statements above are correct. Now let's leave the specifics of this situation behind for a second.

Does it seem ridiculous to anyone else that the president of a major state university, duly appointed by the trustees, is in jeopardy of losing his/her job due to a decision to fire an athletics coach? I mean, seriously, how screwed up are the priorities here? Since when is basketball the most important thing that UC does?

If Lindner and other donors are refusing to donate to the city's university due to spite occasioned by the firing of a basketball coach, then I would say that's as much a sad commentary on those people and their priorities as it is Dr. Zimpher's mishandling of the Huggins affair.

This is one man's opinion, but I can't be the only person associated with UC that feels this way. Or maybe I am, who knows.
I agree with you that if she is eventually forced out due to botching the Huggins firing, UC does have its priories messed up. But this sounds as if it's a result of significant losses in donations from alumni and such (which is obviously due to her poor handling of the Huggins situation), then I can see where that puts the university between a rock and a hard place.

Chip R
12-13-2005, 09:15 AM
I realize I've been critical of the pro-Huggins faction in the past, and I don't want to go down that road again. You folks are entitled to your own opinions, and frankly I've never been a big UC hoops fan although I am an alum.

I have no reason to disbelieve R4L's take on the situation, nor to doubt that his statements above are correct. Now let's leave the specifics of this situation behind for a second.

Does it seem ridiculous to anyone else that the president of a major state university, duly appointed by the trustees, is in jeopardy of losing his/her job due to a decision to fire an athletics coach? I mean, seriously, how screwed up are the priorities here? Since when is basketball the most important thing that UC does?

If Lindner and other donors are refusing to donate to the city's university due to spite occasioned by the firing of a basketball coach, then I would say that's as much a sad commentary on those people and their priorities as it is Dr. Zimpher's mishandling of the Huggins affair.

This is one man's opinion, but I can't be the only person associated with UC that feels this way. Or maybe I am, who knows.

You make some good points but she eventually has to be judged by the job she does - just like Huggins was. Let's face it, if UC was going to the Sweet 16 about every year and perhaps a Final Four or two within the last 10 years he would have had been untouchable. This is no knock on Huggins, who I believe to be a very good coach, but it's just facts.

Nancy Zimpher will be judged not because she fired Bob Huggins but in the money that is raised for the university, whether the quality of education there has improved and whether enrollment increases. The board of trustees seemed to be solidly behind her decision to fire Huggins so it's hardly likely that they will fire her for sacking him. If UC can get someone in there to head up the basketball program and they get back to the point where they were, people are going to forget about Huggins and how he was fired.

Heath
12-13-2005, 09:58 AM
Since when is basketball the most important thing that UC does?

Since Bob Huggins took a bunch of juco players from a urban, commuter campus, stuck in one of the blighted areas of Cincinnati to a final four in 1992, recapturing one of the proudest things the UC campus had to hang their hat on for so many years, that Tony Yates took 9 years to destroy.

Sorry for the run-on sentence.

dsmith421
12-13-2005, 10:25 AM
Since Bob Huggins took a bunch of juco players from a urban, commuter campus, stuck in one of the blighted areas of Cincinnati to a final four in 1992, recapturing one of the proudest things the UC campus had to hang their hat on for so many years, that Tony Yates took 9 years to destroy.

You honestly think that winning basketball games should be the number one priority of the University of Cincinnati?

I always thought the point was education, research and community involvement. Maybe I'm wrong.

Redsland
12-13-2005, 10:47 AM
Does it seem ridiculous to anyone else that the president of a major state university, duly appointed by the trustees, is in jeopardy of losing his/her job due to a decision to fire an athletics coach?
Universities can't do their good work without lots of money. Donors are tearing up their checks because Zimpher rooked a good man. As a result, UC has less money for buildings, teachers, and facilities; the university's leadership looks to be spitefully out of touch; and idealistic young students are being taught that no matter how successful and loyal they are, they can still get a knife in the back at any time.

That's why Nancy's got to go. Not because of any impending NIT berth.

dsmith421
12-13-2005, 10:51 AM
Universities can't do their good work without lots of money. Donors are tearing up their checks because Zimpher rooked a good man. As a result, UC has less money for buildings, teachers, and facilities; the university's leadership looks to be spitefully out of touch; and idealistic young students are being taught that no matter how successful and loyal they are, they can still get a knife in the back at any time.

That's why Nancy's got to go. Not because of any impending NIT berth.

I appreciate your response and see where you are coming from.

As for "rooking a good man", well, that's debatable.

paintmered
12-13-2005, 10:52 AM
and idealistic young students are being taught that no matter how successful and loyal they are, they can still get a knife in the back at any time.

...such as taking away our graduation despite the deans unanimously voting against it and forcing out the dean of my college. And then there's the whole "We have to get better because everyone else sucks" message that comes out of her.

It's not all Huggins.

TeamBoone
12-13-2005, 10:53 AM
My understanding from reading several articles and watching/listening to local news reports, the Bob Huggins firing is not the only thing Nancy is doing to alienate UC alumni. And even the firing is not perceived as "wrong" in the eyes of many, but rather they way it went down and the resulting hard place it put the basketball program in because of the timing (e.g., no recruiting for two years).

In addition, she has reportedly refused to accept any public interviews or press conferences designed to answer the "hard questions".

It also appears that they are just now finding out that her track record in Milwaukee wasn't all that great either (e.g., graduating only 9% of African American students).

I would say they get an F for doing their homework prior to hiring her.

gonelong
12-13-2005, 10:54 AM
You honestly think that winning basketball games should be the number one priority of the University of Cincinnati?

I always thought the point was education, research and community involvement. Maybe I'm wrong.

If the priority is education, research and community involvement you'd better figure out how to fund these items.

The way to line the coffers is to reach your alumni and nothing does this more efficiently and on a such a large scale as the football and basketball programs.

Right now the priorities are suffering due to way that the Huggins firing was handled.

They go hand in hand.


GL

Reds4Life
12-13-2005, 11:06 AM
In addition, she has reportedly refused to accept any public interviews or press conferences designed to answer the "hard questions".

It isn't just public venues; she refuses to meet with donors in private as well. From what I heard all meeting requests go through her legal counsel (who was practicing law in Ohio without a license btw), if the topic is Huggins/athletics/basketball she will not meet with you. If you get a meeting and start asking about those subjects, meeting is over and you are escorted out. Remember when she had that reporter thrown out of the building because he asked a question about Huggins? Charming isn't she.

Her attitude is a big part of the problem; she's cold, arrogant and completely indifferent. She's a very vindictive person as well, she told Huggins in a meeting they had she was mad because Bob didn't say hello to her when he was walking off the floor of the Kentucky game in March.

Redsland
12-13-2005, 11:13 AM
...such as taking away our graduation despite the deans unanimously voting against it and forcing out the dean of my college.
Not to hijack the thread, but which dean got sacked? And are you saying that UC grads will have no graduation? :eek:

Reds4Life
12-13-2005, 12:05 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but which dean got sacked? And are you saying that UC grads will have no graduation? :eek:

She fired 4 of them. Business, Law (she installed a former ACLU lawyer which Iíve heard everyone hates, including the law professors), Medicine and Engineering.

Paint would know more about the graduation aspect than I would, but I think Iíve got an idea. UC used to hold a school wide ceremony, and then each individual college had their own ceremony. When I went to UC almost nobody attended the University wide graduation, everyone went to the college graduation because it was smaller, didnít take 5 hours, etc. Some colleges also had receptions/dinners after for graduates and their families. Well, when Nancy arrived she put out a mandate that individual colleges were no longer allowed to hold their own ceremonies, she banned them. If you don't want to sit through the lengthy University wide graduation, you are now out of luck.

paintmered
12-13-2005, 12:21 PM
R4L has the general idea. The individual graduations have been a UC tradition. But since OSU (former Nancy school) has a university wide graduation, we have to too apparently.

The dean of my college (engineering) resigned in protest due to forced budget cuts. He is still a faculty member.

Redlegs23
12-13-2005, 03:05 PM
http://removenancyzimpher.blogspot.com/

I'm a UC student and in our campus newspaper there was a poll among UC students to evaluate Nancy's performance. Here's the results:

http://www.newsrecord.org/main.cfm?include=results&poll_question_id=14664&

From a students perspective it feels as if she doesn't care what the student body wants/needs, only what will make her look like an academic mastermind. Nancy has ruined all the pride I once had in UC. One of the few ways I can regain this pride is if Nancy leaves and Prosser comes to UC to restore some hope in the bball program.

I almost forgot, Nancy has also fired the dean of my college. He didn't fit into her "vision"

15fan
12-13-2005, 03:44 PM
I wouldn't know Nancy Zimpher if she was standing next to me.

But I've spent some time working in higher education. It has been my observation that when a new President takes over, it is perfectly normal for there to be organizational churn at the top. This includes positions like Deans and VPs. It's kind of like when a new President takes office in DC. He or she appoints cabinet members, etc, that will help the new administration implement changes & the agenda that has been set forth.

When someone gets into higher education, that's just one of the things that comes with the territory. As Dean or VP, you serve at the will of the President. When there's a change at the top, it's understood that the new Pres will very likely want to replace you.

Being Dean isn't like being appointed to the Supreme Court, which is a lifetime gig. It's more like being named Secretary of State, which is more like serving as long as the current President is in charge.

How these decisions are handled is a different discussion. But that doesn't change the fact that these decisions are incredibly commonplace in higher education. The fact that Zimpher has changed Deans is about as radical as the idea of the sun rising in the east.

As far as Prosser, I'll say this:

It will take some serious $$ to buy him out of his current deal with Wake. He's bringing in a solid class of kids next year that will compliment the current cast of freshmen he has. Outside of a handful of programs, coaching in North Carolina at an ACC school is about as good as it gets for any men's basketball coach.

Skip is a whale of a recruiter, and he runs about as clean of a program as anyone could want. I'm still not sold, though, on his abillity to coach defense. When he can crack that nut, he'll have a shot at being one of the truly top notch coaches in the game. Until then his ceiling is as a very good, but not truly great, coach, IMO.

Edit: And as far as Huggins is concerned, letting him go re-established some of the University's credibility that had been lost over the years. Step outside the tri-state, and Bob Huggins/UC was the punch line to a lot of unflattering jokes and snide comments. Whether or not it was true, it was certainly the national perception. And you know what they say about perception.

Heath
12-13-2005, 04:12 PM
You honestly think that winning basketball games should be the number one priority of the University of Cincinnati?

I always thought the point was education, research and community involvement. Maybe I'm wrong.

I didn't say I agreed with it....I just stated an opinion.