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GAC
12-17-2005, 07:14 AM
I'm a big classic cartoon fan at heart. Today's generastion of kids don't know what they are missing. Especially when I see the crap on Cartoon Network. The animation back then was such a work of art IMO. We use to get the Boomerang Channel on our cable, which shows alot of these old classics, but they took it off our listing.

Anyway, I've been slowly trying to collect alot of these older series on DVD that were so popular when I was a kid.

I found this website if anyone is interested.

Gotta have the Heckle & Jeckle, Deputy Dawg, and Harveytoon series. ;)

http://www.matsune.com/wbc/worldsbestweb/cartoonvidlist.htm

KittyDuran
12-17-2005, 10:22 AM
Me, too! Most of mine are on VHS. I bought a few at a place in the old Forest Fair Mall (now Cincinnati Mills) called "Cartoon Corner". Be care tho, some might be edited. When Turner bought the Warner Bros. cartoon catalog (and MGM, IIRC) he really edited some (mostly black stereotypes, gun violence, and drug use) but leaving the stereotypes of Jews and Native Americans, and Elmer hunting wabbits. Also have books on classic cartoons that cover Warner Brothers, MGM, Disney, Paramount, etc.

GAC
12-18-2005, 12:42 AM
A majority of the cartoons made back in the 30's and 40's, according to Bob McKimson, Chuck Jones, Bob Clampett, and Friz Freleng were never intended for kids. They written as shorts for movie theaters, which was mainly an adult audience.

I think it's funny that they feel they need to edit them after seeing some of the animated shows (and content) that is on today.

Most that I currently have are on VHS. I probably have over 200 hours of the old Warner Bros, MGM (Tom & Jerry), Mighty Mouse, Beany & Cecil, Popeye, and Jay Ward.

I bought a couple DVDs the other day for $1 that had Gabby from the 1940's.

But I have no Harveytoons or Terrytoons because they were so hard time find for a long time.

westofyou
12-18-2005, 01:36 AM
They written as shorts for movie theaters, which was mainly an adult audience.True, and each studio had their own shorts with their own stars. IIRC Warners was the tough guy, everyman movie studio and they had Bugs and the crew. Paramont had Popeye, Universal had Woody Woodpecker and his group. MGM had Tom and Jerry and Fox had Terrytoons.

http://www.cartoonresearch.com/

GAC
12-18-2005, 08:52 AM
Thanks for the link woy. Good stuff.

As the last of the great "animators" pass out of this existence, the skill that it once took to create conventional, hand drawn "cartoons" will pass away as well, because as computer graphics advance to the state where they can precisely replicate life and the world around us, they will be able to replicate anything we can dream up as well.

What guys like Disney and the Fleischer did was remarkable. These cartoons are an American legacy. Their characters still move, talk, sing, dance and emote on film, just as their talented masters created them. But what is increasingly prized by connoisseurs and collectors is the individual image, the fleeting twenty-fourth part of a second, drawn by the animator and preserved on a "cel," a transparent sheet of celluloid about the size of a coffee-table art book. Here the character, inked in outline, painted by hand in vivid color and frozen in an expressive moment of action, reveals the true art of the animator.

Hanna-Barbera, in introducing the half-hour cartoon TV series in the late 50's, and in order to cut corners and costs as compared to the methodical process needed to make a ful length movie which came out every 2-3 years, did alot, IMO, to cheapen the art of animation. Good shows yes; but the animation was very sub-par IMO.

I think my love for cartoons and especially animation always stemmed from my love of drawing. In school, me and a buddy, in a sort of "friendly" competiveness, were always drawing.

I really wanted to become a commercial artist when I was younger and even had a scholarship to the Columbus School of Art and Design. Back then it wasn't the school it is now (wasstill trying to get off the ground). But even with the renewable scholarship, after paying to send my sister through 4 years at OSU, it was something my parents would have had a hard time paying for.

And even though I though I was a darn good illustrator, I had self-assurance doubts that hindered me from following through on it. If there was one thing I could go back and change in my life it would have been to step foward and have taken that risk and followed through with it.

My daughter seems to have "inherited" my artistic knack for drawing. That's why she wants to be a nurse! :lol:

KittyDuran
12-18-2005, 09:43 AM
What guys like Disney and the Fleischer did was remarkable. These cartoons are an American legacy. Their characters still move, talk, sing, dance and emote on film, just as their talented masters created them. But what is increasingly prized by connoisseurs and collectors is the individual image, the fleeting twenty-fourth part of a second, drawn by the animator and preserved on a "cel," a transparent sheet of celluloid about the size of a coffee-table art book. Here the character, inked in outline, painted by hand in vivid color and frozen in an expressive moment of action, reveals the true art of the animator.
And some of those cells, IIRC, the illustrators sold to kids on the street - or during the war years, clean them off so they could be used again....:(

KittyDuran
12-18-2005, 10:33 AM
Some of the books I have on classic cartoons (mostly Warner Bros.):

Of Mice And Men - Leonard Maltin (covers most of the studios)
Chuck Amuck
That's Not All Folks! - Mel Blanc (great read because the book also covers classic radio)
Bugs Bunny, Fifty Years And Only One Grey Hare
That's Not All Folks, The Art of Warner Bros. Animation

And last book and my personal favorite:
Loony Tunes And Merrie Melodies, A Complete Illustrated Guide To the Warner Bros. Cartoons (This book covers by year the cartoons produced - it also has a title and character indexes, including main and supporting characters, in the back.) I have dog-eared some of my favorite cartoons and the authors comments on them: Favorites are: Porky In Egypt (1938), The Lone Stranger & Porky (1939), Thugs With Dirty Mugs (1939), THe Hep Cat (1942), A Tale of Two Kitties (1942, Puss N' Booty (1943), Little Red Riding Rabbit (1944), Booby Hatched (1944), Hare Conditioned (1945), The Slick Hare (1947), Bugs Bunny Rides Again (1948), From A to Z-Z-Z-Z (1954), Mixed Master (1956), Rocket-Bye Baby (1956)... and many more.

Another thing about the classic cartoons, especially Warner Bros, is that you got a history lesson with some of them, especially during the war years - ration books, popular entertainers, fads, etc.

Hmmm... am I a fanatic???:devil:

KittyDuran
12-18-2005, 10:43 AM
A majority of the cartoons made back in the 30's and 40's, according to Bob McKimson, Chuck Jones, Bob Clampett, and Friz Freleng were never intended for kids. They written as shorts for movie theaters, which was mainly an adult audience.
In the cartoon, A Tale of Two Kitties, the two cats are trying to get Tweety (who are pattern after Abbot & Costello) using a ladder. "Catstello" is climbing up with "Babbit" telling him repetedly to give him the bird. To which Catstello replies, "If it wasn't for the Hays Code, I give him the "Bird". (The Hays Code was the first censorship panel for the entertainment industry - who tried to get Mae West banned).

westofyou
12-18-2005, 10:45 AM
(The Hays Code was the first censorship panel for the entertainment industry - who tried to get Mae West banned).I took a film class in college all about the Hayes Law and the films that caused it and the way the studios went around it.

KittyDuran
12-18-2005, 11:09 AM
I think it's funny that they feel they need to edit them after seeing some of the animated shows (and content) that is on today.
True, but maybe they believed that cartoons made "back in the day" shouldn't be so racy or confrontational (sp?). It was considered a more innocent time as opposed to today. The editing could be very unnoticable, like taking out a few frames and not distrupt the story line - like "Horton Hatches The Egg" (1942) in which during the sea crossing a "Peter Lorre" fish proclaims "Now I've seen everthing" and shoots himself in the head with a gun. Other are jarring as in "Fresh Hare" (1942) - Bugs run into Elmer as a Mountie and is finally taken into justice to die in front of a firing squad. Elmer ask Bugs if he has any final wishes. Bugs replies, "I wish, I wish, I.. (and that's where the edited version stops). But why would they edit out the last frames to end the cartoon? Becase Bugs wishes he was "in Dixie" with Bugs, Elmer and the firing squad singing "Camptown Races" in blackface.

A drug related editing happens more than a few times and disrupts the flow of the cartoons. The first in "The Big Snooze" (1946) in which Bugs wanting to see what Elmer is dreaming about goes to sleep as well. In the edited version the audience just sees Bugs falling over in slo-mo. What was edited was Bugs taking sleeping pills (take these and doze was on the bottle). The other is a Road Runner cartoon (and I can't remember the name) in which, Wile is trying to get RR to eat earthquake pills, which he does, but nothing happens. In the edited version, Wile starts to shake, quake, etc. That's fine, but why is he doing that? Because the frames that were taken out show him taking a few of the pills (with nothing happening) then downing the whole bottle (nothing happening again). Seeing that the product was probably defective he throws the bottle away - but in doing so notices that the fine print mentions that the pills would not work on road runners. Then he starts to shake, quake, etc.

If someone has not seen the original, these things are trival. But it hurts to see a good cartoon ruined.

KittyDuran
12-18-2005, 11:10 AM
I took a film class in college all about the Hayes Law and the films that caused it and the way the studios went around it.I believed the cat said "code" but I could be wrong - it's been awhile since I viewed the cartoon. It's amazing what all they objected to (tame by today's standards)

TeamCasey
12-18-2005, 03:02 PM
I've been picking up cartoon classics for TeamGriffey.

I'm at a complete loss at the shows he watches today. He loves when I hang out and watch with him. It's agony for me. Spongebob is cool though. :D

KittyDuran
12-18-2005, 04:02 PM
I've been picking up cartoon classics for TeamGriffey.

I'm at a complete loss at the shows he watches today. He loves when I hang out and watch with him. It's agony for me. Spongebob is cool though. :DThat's great, TC! My Dad, when he wasn't working on Saturday, used to watch cartoons with me and my little sister. But he would laugh at the wrong times. What I would find out, as I got older, was that he was responding to the adult humor found in many of the older cartoons.

GAC
12-18-2005, 08:09 PM
True, but maybe they believed that cartoons made "back in the day" shouldn't be so racy or confrontational (sp?). It was considered a more innocent time as opposed to today. The editing could be very unnoticable, like taking out a few frames and not distrupt the story line - like "Horton Hatches The Egg" (1942) in which during the sea crossing a "Peter Lorre" fish proclaims "Now I've seen everthing" and shoots himself in the head with a gun. Other are jarring as in "Fresh Hare" (1942) - Bugs run into Elmer as a Mountie and is finally taken into justice to die in front of a firing squad. Elmer ask Bugs if he has any final wishes. Bugs replies, "I wish, I wish, I.. (and that's where the edited version stops). But why would they edit out the last frames to end the cartoon? Becase Bugs wishes he was "in Dixie" with Bugs, Elmer and the firing squad singing "Camptown Races" in blackface.

A drug related editing happens more than a few times and disrupts the flow of the cartoons. The first in "The Big Snooze" (1946) in which Bugs wanting to see what Elmer is dreaming about goes to sleep as well. In the edited version the audience just sees Bugs falling over in slo-mo. What was edited was Bugs taking sleeping pills (take these and doze was on the bottle). The other is a Road Runner cartoon (and I can't remember the name) in which, Wile is trying to get RR to eat earthquake pills, which he does, but nothing happens. In the edited version, Wile starts to shake, quake, etc. That's fine, but why is he doing that? Because the frames that were taken out show him taking a few of the pills (with nothing happening) then downing the whole bottle (nothing happening again). Seeing that the product was probably defective he throws the bottle away - but in doing so notices that the fine print mentions that the pills would not work on road runners. Then he starts to shake, quake, etc.

If someone has not seen the original, these things are trival. But it hurts to see a good cartoon ruined.


I agree with what you're saying completely, but in today's age we have video games, movies, comedians, etc., that graphically utilize and promote such themes as a form of entertainment and humor.

Some of that older stuff is quite tame compared to what I see on Cartoon Network. Some of that is downright gross!

I'm more concerned about Grand Theft Auto's realistic promotion of violence, or Chris Rock and other comedians use of the "N" word, then a cartoon figure (Bugs) shooting himself in the head or singing "Camptown Races".

GAC
12-18-2005, 08:12 PM
That's great, TC! My Dad, when he wasn't working on Saturday, used to watch cartoons with me and my little sister. But he would laugh at the wrong times. What I would find out, as I got older, was that he was responding to the adult humor found in many of the older cartoons.

My Dad loved Foghorn Leghorn (the character was modelled after an old radio show) and the Road Runner/Coyote. He felt sorry for the coyote. ;)

OldRightHander
12-19-2005, 11:56 AM
Those old cartoons were the best, and by old I generally mean the stuff I grew up watching in the 70s. I would watch Tom and Jerry on Channel 19 in the afternoons when I got home from school and the Bugs Bunny Road Runner Hour on Saturday mornings. That stuff was actually creative and quite funny, unlike what is passed off as cartoons today. I don't understand these new ones one bit.

Anyway, my wife and I were channel surfing the other day and came across some Tom and Jerry cartoons. They were on for about an hour. Our sides were hurting by the time that hour was over. Very funny stuff. We saw the one where Tom died and went to hell, only to awake at the end and find out he had dreamt it, and they also showed the one where he was trying to woo a female cat by singing, "Is you is or is you ain't my baby."

GAC
12-19-2005, 08:34 PM
I bought an old Fleischer DVD this morning at WalMarts for $1. All were the very old Popeye.

What is interesting is that Popeye, the really old ones, was a foul-mouthed mumbler. ;)