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View Full Version : Anyone guess who O'Brien's talking about?



icehole3
12-18-2005, 03:03 PM
This from today's Enquirer.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051218/COL09/512180416/1071/SPT04

O'Brien said the club is talking to a pitcher whom the Reds see in a swing role.

"It's someone we could use in a starting role and have pitch in relief as well," O'Brien said. "I'd rather not say who, because we're in the preliminary stages."

There is still hope that the Reds will upgrade the rotation.

"We're still having trade talks," O'Brien said. "It's been a fairly busy week."

Jpup
12-18-2005, 03:07 PM
This from today's Enquirer.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051218/COL09/512180416/1071/SPT04

O'Brien said the club is talking to a pitcher whom the Reds see in a swing role.

"It's someone we could use in a starting role and have pitch in relief as well," O'Brien said. "I'd rather not say who, because we're in the preliminary stages."

There is still hope that the Reds will upgrade the rotation.

"We're still having trade talks," O'Brien said. "It's been a fairly busy week."

Gil Meche?

If he is talking about free agents then the list is pretty short for starters:

Brian Anderson
Tony Armas
Pedro Astacio
Kevin Brown
Shawn Estes
Gary Glover
Kaz Ishii
Jason Johnson
BK Kim
Al Leiter
Jose Lima
Joe Mays
Ramon Ortiz
Brett Tomko
Ismael Valdez
Jeff Weaver
Jamey Wright

If I had to guess, I would say Al Leiter, Jason Johnson, or Pedro Astacio. Those are just guesses, nothing more.

SteelSD
12-18-2005, 03:07 PM
Has Sean Estes signed with anyone yet?

RedsManRick
12-18-2005, 03:10 PM
Jimmy Haynes?

StillFunkyB
12-18-2005, 03:16 PM
Jimmy Haynes?

Jimmahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Seriously, I wouldn't mind finding out how much Tony Armas, and Joe Mays would cost. If they are both relatively cheap, those are two names I would like to see in Red.

Jpup
12-18-2005, 03:25 PM
Here is the list for relievers that are Free Agents:

Antonia Alfonseca
Wilson Alvarez
James Baldwin
Jason Christiansen
Octavio Dotel
Darren Dreifort
Cal Eldred
Alan Embree
Chad Fox
Danny Graves
Buddy Groom
Chris Hammond
Shingo Hasegawa
Felix Heredia
Steve Karsay
Matt Mantei
Brian Meadows
Jim Mercir
Ramiro Mendoza
Dan Miceli
Terry Muhlholland
Jeff Nelson
Jay Powell
Paul Quantrill
Al Reyes
Felix Rodriguez
Rudy Seanez
Scott Sullivan
Shingo Takatsu
Julian Tavarez
Ugy Urbina
Rick White

Alvarez and Eldred (former Cardinal) are the only 2 who started games in 2005.

icehole3
12-18-2005, 03:35 PM
That list smells like Doo-die.

Team Clark
12-18-2005, 03:40 PM
My guess is Astacio, Ishii or LIMA time....

MartyFan
12-18-2005, 03:47 PM
My guess is Estes.

flyer85
12-18-2005, 03:52 PM
Danny Graves has experience starting and "relieving".

Falls City Beer
12-18-2005, 04:01 PM
I don't know, but I'm prepared to be sufficiently bored.

Joseph
12-18-2005, 04:39 PM
Estes I bet too.

flyer85
12-18-2005, 04:42 PM
Estes I bet too.Estes has never spent much time pitching in relief or being a "swingman".

I'm sure whoever it is we are all going to nonplussed.

KronoRed
12-18-2005, 04:46 PM
Usually starters who go back and forth to the pen stink at both, that's the reason they go back and forth :help:

Joseph
12-18-2005, 04:49 PM
Estes has never spent much time pitching in relief or being a "swingman".

I'm sure whoever it is we are all going to nonplussed.

I'll be that way if it's Estes too. I just know I heard/read his name in passing in the past few days in association with the Reds.

mound_patrol
12-18-2005, 05:54 PM
the only person off of that list that I think would be worth the money is Dotel, but he's obviously not a swingman so there is no shot there

Chip R
12-18-2005, 06:51 PM
He'll probably sign Ugie forgetting that he's still in jail.

lollipopcurve
12-18-2005, 07:06 PM
Guessing Glover.

VI_RedsFan
12-18-2005, 08:21 PM
I would like it to be Armas, but I'm guessing it's Estes.

Aronchis
12-18-2005, 08:34 PM
Probably Kim

Team Clark
12-18-2005, 08:38 PM
Estes would be a good pick up. There's a lot worse out there. Estes could be considered a vet. I thought he had some venom towards the Reds when he left. Could be mistaken.

M2
12-18-2005, 08:43 PM
Those comments stink of Cal Eldred.

Falls City Beer
12-18-2005, 08:46 PM
Those comments stink of Cal Eldred.

I thought Eldred was retiring?

Chip R
12-18-2005, 08:49 PM
Those comments stink of Cal Eldred.

He has been a Cardinal the last few years.

Falls City Beer
12-18-2005, 08:52 PM
For the record, if it were Eldred, we'd be talking about acquiring the third best pitcher on our 40-man roster. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. :(

Ravenlord
12-18-2005, 08:55 PM
Probably Kim
that would be too good an acquisition for him.

westofyou
12-18-2005, 08:55 PM
For the record, if it were Eldred, we'd be talking about acquiring the third best pitcher on our 40-man roster. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. :(By what standard is that?

Falls City Beer
12-18-2005, 09:00 PM
By what standard is that?

Excuse me. The fourth best. I forgot about Weathers.

It would go:

Harang
Claussen
Weathers
Eldred

My criteria would be WHIP and OPSA.

westofyou
12-18-2005, 09:03 PM
Excuse me. The fourth best. I forgot about Weathers.

It would go:

Harang
Claussen
Weathers
Eldred

My criteria would be WHIP and OPSA.Ughhh the man has 3 starts since 2001, he can't be a "swingman" at this point.

I see scarier monsters.

Eldred is 37 and pitched only 37 innings last year, the decline is bound to be countered by a rise, probably making more than 2 Reds better than him by year end.

Jpup
12-18-2005, 09:33 PM
From today's Cincinnati Enquirer


By John Fay
Enquirer staff writer

Reds general manager Dan O'Brien strongly hinted that when the Reds lost out on Matt Morris, they exhausted their free-agent signing opportunity as far as starting pitching.

"For us, Matt Morris was the pre-eminent individual on the market," O'Brien said. "We don't compare the remaining individuals to his level."

O'Brien said the club is focusing on the pitchers who have at least 1-to-1 ground ball-to-fly ball out ratio to lessen the Great American Ball Park factor.

Morris' ratio last season was 1.49-to-1. By comparison, Eric Milton's was 0.62.

The big-name free agents left - Kevin Millwood (1.28), Jarrod Washburn (1.05) and Jeff Weaver (1.05) - are better than 1-to-1. Scott Elarton is just a notch below them with a 0.60 ratio last year.

But Millwood, Washburn and Weaver are probably out of the Reds' price range. Given the market, a trade might be a more likely scenario.

"We're not focused only on free agents," O'Brien said.

Falls City Beer
12-18-2005, 09:39 PM
Morris is better than Millwood? :confused:

Phhhl
12-18-2005, 10:20 PM
With Sean in Pittsburgh, I wonder what the chances are of Gravy getting his last shot there?

Patrick Bateman
12-18-2005, 10:25 PM
I think Terry Mulholand fits the bill :dancingco

flyer85
12-18-2005, 10:47 PM
Eldred announced his retirement

dougflynn23
12-18-2005, 11:17 PM
:) My vote would be for either Gary Glover or Jamey Wright regarding DOB's hinting. Glover because he looked really good against the Reds last season, and Wright because he's just the kind of tease a smaller market team likes to gamble on. I'd take a flyer in Wright if he's interested, but this is the same guy who shot himself in the behind a few years ago when St. Louis offered him a virtually guaranteed rotation slot that he refused because he insisted on a 40 man roster spot.

dman
12-18-2005, 11:21 PM
If it is trade talks and not FA's, could it possibly be Smoltz???? Just a thought.

Jpup
12-18-2005, 11:33 PM
If it is trade talks and not FA's, could it possibly be Smoltz???? Just a thought.

and in other news, Hell just froze over. ;)

dman
12-18-2005, 11:34 PM
and in other news, Hell just froze over. ;)
It might cost us the farm, but Dan'O's probably willing to take that chance.


By the way, can we get a middle finger emoticon for some of the sarcastic replies that tend to get posted on here????

jnwohio
12-18-2005, 11:44 PM
In regard to Estes, with 3 lefties already projected into the rotation, why would the Reds want another lefty as a swing man? Of course if it was to set up a deal which would send Milton packing, bring him on.

alexad
12-18-2005, 11:51 PM
I think it might be Julian Tavarez. He was released by the Cardinals. I thought he started a few games for the Giants before he went to St. Louis.

I am not sure what we really need in the pen beside a true closer and maybe a true long mop up relief guy.

Patrick Bateman
12-19-2005, 12:03 AM
I think it might be Julian Tavarez. He was released by the Cardinals. I thought he started a few games for the Giants before he went to St. Louis.

I am not sure what we really need in the pen beside a true closer and maybe a true long mop up relief guy.

Tavarez is a FA, he was not released.

I have heard reports that Tavarez will command a 3-4 year deal at about 4M per year.

It wont be him, and even if it was he would not be a swing guy, he would probably be our closer.

alexad
12-19-2005, 12:06 AM
Tavarez is a FA, he was not released.

I have heard reports that Tavarez will command a 3-4 year deal at about 4M per year.

It wont be him, and even if it was he would not be a swing guy, he would probably be our closer.


That would not be a bad thing. I am not sure there is another closer out there to fit our bill. I am not sure about the 4 year deal though.

schroomytunes
12-19-2005, 12:06 AM
There's no way it'll be a lefty, we already have enough in the rotation. If I had to bet here's my top 3:

1)Tony Armas
2)BH Kim
3)Joe Mays

They all can be had for cheap, and none are really 5th starter material, injuries have plaged all in the past. If I was a betting man, my money's on Kim. I see him being that swing guy in the rotation as well as closing 10-15 games for us.

Patrick Bateman
12-19-2005, 12:07 AM
It might cost us the farm, but Dan'O's probably willing to take that chance.


Smoltz doesn't really fit the description. If we trade for him (which I don't see happening) he would have a defined role in the rotation.

Also, a trade fr Smoltz doesn't really make a lot of sense for us right now anyways. We are far from contending and getting Smoltz would be a move to put us over the top. It would deal away our future and not really move the franchise forwards.

I don't know why Atlanta would trade their ace anyways. He's a great pitcher on a team that always contends. I don't see any scenario in which Smoltz is traded.

alexad
12-19-2005, 12:08 AM
The Reds passed on a chance for Armas a few years ago. He does not have a sound arm. Kim is a mystery, but maybe a different team beside the Rockies would be good for him. He can save games and he would not be under much pressure for the Reds like he has in the past.

Patrick Bateman
12-19-2005, 12:08 AM
That would not be a bad thing. I am not sure there is another closer out there to fit our bill. I am not sure about the 4 year deal though.

All I am saying is that he doesn't really fit the description.

Jr's Boy
12-19-2005, 01:27 AM
At least Taverez could teach our SP's how to doctor a ball.:D

ochre
12-19-2005, 02:23 AM
Estes has never spent much time pitching in relief or being a "swingman".

I'm sure whoever it is we are all going to nonplussed.
You underestimate Dan's vision.

ochre
12-19-2005, 02:26 AM
Can Milton Loo pitch?

KronoRed
12-19-2005, 04:50 AM
At least Taverez could teach our SP's how to doctor a ball.:D
I don't think all the doctoring in the world would help ;)

wheels
12-19-2005, 09:28 AM
The Reds passed on a chance for Armas a few years ago. He does not have a sound arm. Kim is a mystery, but maybe a different team beside the Rockies would be good for him. He can save games and he would not be under much pressure for the Reds like he has in the past.


The no pressure angle really worked for Eric Milton, didn't it?:p:

M2
12-19-2005, 12:43 PM
O'Brien said the club is focusing on the pitchers who have at least 1-to-1 ground ball-to-fly ball out ratio to lessen the Great American Ball Park factor.

And the wind continues to blow in the direction of Jason Johnson (1.74 G/F). He's a DanO kind of pitcher.

Red Leader
12-19-2005, 12:48 PM
And the wind continues to blow in the direction of Jason Johnson (1.74 G/F). He's a DanO kind of pitcher.

I agree with you totally on Jason Johnson.

What about Victor Zambrano, though. He's probably going to be non-tendered tomorrow, and his GB/FB ratio is almost always over 1, including a 1.66 last year. I thought I heard of DanO being interested in him in the past, that's why the name keeps jumping out at me.

He also started and was used as a reliever last year.

M2
12-19-2005, 01:29 PM
I agree with you totally on Jason Johnson.

What about Victor Zambrano, though. He's probably going to be non-tendered tomorrow, and his GB/FB ratio is almost always over 1, including a 1.66 last year. I thought I heard of DanO being interested in him in the past, that's why the name keeps jumping out at me.

He also started and was used as a reliever last year.

Zambrano would be preferable. He at least possesses some ability to make hitters swing and miss. Unlike Johnson, who'd be an unqualified disaster, Zambrano could deliver something palatable (though I think mildly bad would be a more likely outcome for him).

Falls City Beer
12-19-2005, 01:30 PM
And the wind continues to blow in the direction of Jason Johnson (1.74 G/F). He's a DanO kind of pitcher.

Your crystal ball gets clearer and clearer. If I'm a bettin' man (and I am occasionally), my money's on Johnson as well.

klw
12-19-2005, 01:44 PM
BK Kim's name lept off of the page to me.

NJReds
12-19-2005, 02:10 PM
Maybe he'll add to the ex-Cardinals and sign Eldred.

balk
12-19-2005, 02:39 PM
I thought Dan O made it clear that the only way they would sign somebody is if it was a clear upgrade to the current pitching staff. Jason Johnson hardly qualifies as a clear upgrade.

Falls City Beer
12-19-2005, 02:43 PM
I thought Dan O made it clear that the only way they would sign somebody is if it was a clear upgrade to the current pitching staff. Jason Johnson hardly qualifies as a clear upgrade.

Well, he would be an upgrade over Milton. Or, actually, maybe he wouldn't--he pitched in Comerica last year. Never mind.

I still don't think DanO knows what an upgrade is. He's got to nail that one down first before he moves on to making it a reality.

Red Leader
12-19-2005, 02:47 PM
I thought Dan O made it clear that the only way they would sign somebody is if it was a clear upgrade to the current pitching staff. Jason Johnson hardly qualifies as a clear upgrade.


The only person that eliminates is Jose Lima, I believe, seeing as Lima qualified as the worst pitcher in baseball last year, and I believe Milton ranked 2nd to last, so even the 3rd to last ranked player is an upgrade to the current pitching staff.

I may be wrong on that, but I think you're seeing the loophole with which O'Brien has left open to hang himself.

Puffy
12-19-2005, 03:16 PM
Yeah, Dan O'Brien who considers Tony Womack an upgrade. Really a pretty big loophole if you ask me.

Big Donkey
12-19-2005, 04:01 PM
If I may interject... I hate to sound bleak, but I think some of the fellas are aiming too high in their predictions. I don't think it will be anyone like Tony Armas Jr. or Victor Zambrano, or even Jason Johnson or Shawn Estes, at least this particular quote from O'Brien. If they did sign one of them, for better or worse, I would assume they'd be a "lock" for the rotation; they wouldn't be a swingman type. This comment stinks of someone of the ilk of a Gary Glover or James Baldwin. Brian Anderson is one I'd keep my eye on. Someone they can throw in the rotation for a spot start if need be but has gotten plenty of work in each situation. I don't think it will be even a "mid-major" signing (something an Armas or Estes, for instance, would be).

I do think they are still looking at free agent starters (beyond Millwood and Weaver of course), and still could potentially sign someone like an Estes or Johnson, but I don't think that'd be the guy O'Brien is referring to. It's probably even more under the radar than that.

Johnny Footstool
12-19-2005, 04:15 PM
When I'm trying to figure who DanO is targeting, here's what I do: I look at the list of free agents and I pick out the ones I like (in this case, Armas and Kim). I immediately rule them out.

I see if anyone on the list has retired or died recently. I put them in the "maybe" category.

I check for pitchers with ERAs over 5.00. I put them in the "probably" category.

Then I look for pitchers who strike out less than 5 batters per nine innings and were pretty lucky in terms of BABIP. If they have chronic shoulder or knee problems (like Wilson and Milton), that cinches it. Those are guys DanO has definitely set his sights on.

Puffy
12-19-2005, 04:18 PM
The masocist in me really hopes its Jose Lima. I mean to have three of the worst win share people in the league in 2005 would just be priceless.

Aronchis
12-19-2005, 04:22 PM
The Reds already have Josh Hancock, who was supposedly "designated" for this role. I doubt you need another one.

Sounds like to me, O'brien is peddling Larue for a young starter, nobody hasn't bitten yet. Will throwing Pena into the mix help?

Barbarossa
12-19-2005, 04:48 PM
Whatever happened to John Riedling? Didn't he start a few games for the Reds? He should be cheap enough.

M2
12-19-2005, 04:54 PM
I thought Dan O made it clear that the only way they would sign somebody is if it was a clear upgrade to the current pitching staff. Jason Johnson hardly qualifies as a clear upgrade.

Clarity, both of mind and statement, seems to consistently elude DanO.

Anyway, he strikes me as a guy who gets a detail stuck in his head and then it controls him. G/F ratio seems to be that thing this year and, like him or not, Johnson is a groundball pitcher. Can DanO see past that number and recognize the numerous other faults with Johnson? Hopefully, but I'm thinking he's going to wind up looking like a relative bargain in the free agent market and the Reds will hand him a Paul Wilsonesque contract.

CougarQuest
12-19-2005, 04:57 PM
When I'm trying to figure who DanO is targeting, here's what I do: I look at the list of free agents and I pick out the ones I like (in this case, Armas and Kim). I immediately rule them out.

I see if anyone on the list has retired or died recently. I put them in the "maybe" category.

I check for pitchers with ERAs over 5.00. I put them in the "probably" category.

Then I look for pitchers who strike out less than 5 batters per nine innings and were pretty lucky in terms of BABIP. If they have chronic shoulder or knee problems (like Wilson and Milton), that cinches it. Those are guys DanO has definitely set his sights on.
:laugh: You know, if that weren't so realistic, it would be hilarious.

Red Leader
12-19-2005, 05:17 PM
Kaz Ishii was just released by the Mets.

I wonder if DanO has any interest in him?

ERA over 5.00. WHIP of 1.49, so he pitches to contact.

Unfortunately, his strike against him is that he's a flyball pitcher. Ah, we can convert him. What the hell. :laugh:

Jr's Boy
12-19-2005, 07:43 PM
When I'm trying to figure who DanO is targeting, here's what I do: I look at the list of free agents and I pick out the ones I like (in this case, Armas and Kim). I immediately rule them out.

I see if anyone on the list has retired or died recently. I put them in the "maybe" category.

I check for pitchers with ERAs over 5.00. I put them in the "probably" category.

Then I look for pitchers who strike out less than 5 batters per nine innings and were pretty lucky in terms of BABIP. If they have chronic shoulder or knee problems (like Wilson and Milton), that cinches it. Those are guys DanO has definitely set his sights on.

:obrien: You got it Johnny:thumbup:

lollipopcurve
12-19-2005, 10:10 PM
I'm telling you, Gary Glover.

Red Rover
12-20-2005, 09:55 AM
Kerry Wood is who I think is the target.

dfs
12-20-2005, 10:36 AM
Rick White has local connections and made it known very publicly last off season that all the reds had to do was offer a contract (any contract) and he would sign it. The reds never made an offer.

He hasn't started a game in 6 years, but he used to start a bit.
He threw 75 innings with a 4.27 ERA for the Pirates last year.

If you liked David Weathers, you'll love Rick White.


FWIW I think Kim would be a decent enough pickup for this staff as well. And yeah, Brower would fit as well.

deltachi8
12-20-2005, 11:42 AM
I belive I read in another thread Jim Brower could be cut loose by the Bravos...he would fit the decrption and O'Brien could do worse.

The more I think of it, the more it could be Baldwin.

Chip R
12-20-2005, 12:11 PM
Whatever happened to John Riedling? Didn't he start a few games for the Reds? He should be cheap enough.

And he stinks too so he's a definite possibility.

maniem
12-20-2005, 01:59 PM
Is there anyway we could pluck Haren away from the A's? I highly doubt Beane would deal him, as he'd prefer to deal Zito...and DanO would probably say Jason Johnson is "more of our type of pitcher" anyway...but i would love to have him...i'd give Kearns/Pena and a minor league pitcher for him...Haren seems exactly like the pitcher we need...young, decent k/9, good groundball ratio...seems to have a bit higher of a ceiling than Harang...I guess i can dream, DanO is probably pissed that he didn't land Loaiza before Beane.

RedLegSuperStar
12-20-2005, 02:12 PM
I'd Like To See Mays And Dotel.. Wont Happen Though..

Ravenlord
12-20-2005, 03:13 PM
the more i think about this, the more i think Brian Anderson...what with that valuable World Series experience an' all.

pedro
12-20-2005, 03:18 PM
I think they're bringing Mark Lemke in. I hear he's got a wicked knuckler.

Plus he can compete for the 2nd base job with Freel, Womack, Olmedo, Bergolla, Anderson Machado, and Rich Aurilia.

guttle11
12-20-2005, 03:21 PM
Have they signed Millwood yet?

Brian Anderson is the guy I think DanO is referring to.

Big Donkey
12-20-2005, 03:48 PM
I'd Like To See Mays And Dotel.. Wont Happen Though..

Actually, I believe they are talking with Joe Mays, so that isn't too far-fetched. Dotel is probably going to New York, either Yankees or Mets. STL is in the running for him as well.

M2
12-20-2005, 05:14 PM
Give Dotel to Dave Duncan and the results could be terrifying.