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View Full Version : O'Brien: signing Dunn to long term deal will be a priority after first of year



savafan
12-22-2005, 12:05 PM
In the last few paragraphs of today's enquirer article about LaRue's contract:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051222/SPT04/512220392/1071/SPT

O'Brien doesn't expect any more signings before Jan. 1.

It would make sense to sign Dunn long-term, because he stands to make $8 million or $9 million in arbitration.

He'd probably be willing to play for less in '06 in exchange for long-term security. That's what LaRue and Freel did.

"We really haven't had any substantial conversations," O'Brien said. "That will be a priority after the first of the year."

lollipopcurve
12-22-2005, 12:10 PM
Good. If they get it done, they've done the single most important thing they can do this offseason, in my opinion.

OldRightHander
12-22-2005, 12:13 PM
It will be more expensive now than if they had done it a couple years ago.

M2
12-22-2005, 12:14 PM
Good. If they get it done, they've done the single most important thing they can do this offseason, in my opinion.

Agreed.

Red Heeler
12-22-2005, 12:14 PM
In the last few paragraphs of today's enquirer article about LaRue's contract:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051222/SPT04/512220392/1071/SPT

"We really haven't had any substantial conversations," O'Brien said. "That will be a priority after the first of the year."

What universe do you have to live in that retaining one of the premier young sluggers in the game is not a priority until after trading for Tony Womack?

traderumor
12-22-2005, 12:26 PM
What universe do you have to live in that retaining one of the premier young sluggers in the game is not a priority until after trading for Tony Womack?It's a little bit easier to trade for a scrub than it is to negotiate a contract with a player that has all the leverage.

Joseph
12-22-2005, 12:28 PM
:pray:

Red Heeler
12-22-2005, 12:38 PM
It's a little bit easier to trade for a scrub than it is to negotiate a contract with a player that has all the leverage.

DanO's quote indicated that they haven't even tried to negotiate with Dunn, yet. As others have indicated, signing Dunn should be a priority, not an afterthought once Freel, Larue, and Womack were taken care of.

savafan
12-22-2005, 12:51 PM
DanO's quote indicated that they haven't even tried to negotiate with Dunn, yet. As others have indicated, signing Dunn should be a priority, not an afterthought once Freel, Larue, and Womack were taken care of.

Perhaps DanO thinks it better to get the easier stuff out of the way before getting down and dirty with the Dunn negotiations?

Red Heeler
12-22-2005, 01:05 PM
Perhaps DanO thinks it better to get the easier stuff out of the way before getting down and dirty with the Dunn negotiations?

Getting the Dunn negotiations completed defines what you can do with the rest of the roster.

Maybe Dunn suprises you and will sign for $6 million a year. Now you have a little more wiggle room for aquiring pitching. Clement for Casey suddenly fits into the budget and you don't have to settle for Dave Williams.

Maybe he has stars in his eyes and will take no less than $12 million. Suddenly you realize that you will struggle to field a competetive team with that kind of money tied to one player. It's time to start shopping for a monster return on the big fella.

Maybe Dunn wants just a bit more than what you have left in the budget after signing Larue, Freel, and aquiring Womack. If John Allen won't let you expand the budget, then you are forced to either forego signing Dunn for another year or to make another roster move.

SunDeck
12-22-2005, 01:07 PM
What universe do you have to live in that retaining one of the premier young sluggers in the game is not a priority until after trading for Tony Womack?
A scrappy one.

TOBTTReds
12-22-2005, 01:07 PM
There are a lot of things that go into signing him long term. Reasons why he should and probably did wait:

Dunn was probably upset about the Casey move, DOB thought Dunn should be given a month to think over the deal so he is more likely to sign (let alone for less)

Waiting gives DOB more time to prove that he is trying to improve the team. Maybe a trade for a pitcher is in the works, which would help convince him that to stay.

Maybe after that "big trade," Austin Kearns is STILL on the team. This alone should get Dunn to sign a deal, and ask for less than he would if Kearns was shipped out.

You do not want a disgruntaled super-star that just signed a long term deal. I don't think waiting til now is a bad thing.

Falls City Beer
12-22-2005, 01:10 PM
5 years $50 mill and call it a day. Then the Reds should turn to their second biggest priority--dumping godawful contracts.

swityak11
12-22-2005, 01:17 PM
Yay for DanO for finally making the obvious a priority.

Jpup
12-22-2005, 01:27 PM
5 years $50 mill and call it a day. Then the Reds should turn to their second biggest priority--dumping godawful contracts.

It would be great, but I don't think Dunn would or should sign for that. He should get at least Damon money. $13 mil per sounds about right to me. Anything less than that, you can consider it a bargain.

deltachi8
12-22-2005, 01:31 PM
I agree at 5 yr/$50m, go $55m if need be.

Red Leader
12-22-2005, 01:40 PM
It would be a good deal if we could get a deal like the following:

2006: $7.5M
2007: $8.5M
2008: $10.0M
2009: $11.5M
2010: $12.5M or $5M buyout

That's 50M over 5 years. I'd like the Reds to try and be able to keep the first two years low so that they can still afford to add pieces the next few years while still shedding some of the bad contracts they currently have.

Jpup
12-22-2005, 01:43 PM
Do you guys really think they can get Dunn to sign for an average of only $10 million per year? I just can't see it. I would love it, but don't think it's within the realm of possibility.

Red Leader
12-22-2005, 01:46 PM
Do you guys really think they can get Dunn to sign for an average of only $10 million per year? I just can't see it. I would love it, but don't think it's within the realm of possibility.

Call me crazy, but I still think we can. I don't know why I feel that way. I don't even know if Adam would be willing to sign long term here for sure, but if he was, I think it would be for a reasonable amount. I just don't think Adam is the type of guy that "needs" to be the highest paid player in baseball. I really, honestly don't think it's "all about the money" with him.

StillFunkyB
12-22-2005, 02:03 PM
{in character of Adam Sandler in "The Wedding Singer"}...."Once again, something that should have been done...YESTERDAY!!!!" ;)

Shaknb8k
12-22-2005, 02:09 PM
I just read the article where this came from. It sounded a little funny to me because they talked about how LaRue and Freel now have long term contracts. Well those are only 2 years which i guess could be considered long-term compared to a 1 year deal. But thats not what i consider long term. I wonder if they are only discussing a 2-3 year deal for Dunn. Which i think would be completely rediculous. I like the idea of a 5 year deal for 50-60 million with a big buyout for year 5.

Roy Tucker
12-22-2005, 02:19 PM
I'm just glad that DanO has made this a stated goal. That has to be a good thing. Say what you will about DanO, he is a straight shooter and if he says he's going to do something, the odds are good he will. The key will be just what exactly is "long term".

If it's 2 years, weeelllll, that's OK.

But if they sign him for 5 years, I'll say that is an excellent move.

And if they sign him for 5 years, my opinion of DanO will move up a notch or two. As I tell my kids, we'll see.

Donder
12-22-2005, 02:20 PM
I personally see Dunn as a guy who primarily looks at baseball as a job. I'm also not sure that there is a lot that would keep him in Cincinnati if he were on the open market (except perhaps Griffey, Kearns and other close friends on the team... if they were still on the Reds at the time). For those reasons I don't think he'd take discounted contract to stay. If the Reds were to try to sign him to a multi-year deal, I think he'd want AT LEAST Damon money.

TOBTTReds
12-22-2005, 03:04 PM
Well those are only 2 years which i guess could be considered long-term compared to a 1 year deal. But thats not what i consider long term. I wonder if they are only discussing a 2-3 year deal for Dunn. Which i think would be completely rediculous. I like the idea of a 5 year deal for 50-60 million with a big buyout for year 5.

I completely agree. If you are able to sign Dunn, it better be for 4 years or more. A 2-3 year deal would make me ill. Now if that is all Dunn wants to sign for, then there is nothing we could do about it. Throw in a mutual option in the 5th year if he really wants to think about being a FA then.

KronoRed
12-22-2005, 03:58 PM
Offer him whatever he wants.

Not shocked that apparently we've never even approached him before.

Hoosier Red
12-22-2005, 04:02 PM
There are a lot of things that go into signing him long term. Reasons why he should and probably did wait:

Dunn was probably upset about the Casey move, DOB thought Dunn should be given a month to think over the deal so he is more likely to sign (let alone for less)

Waiting gives DOB more time to prove that he is trying to improve the team. Maybe a trade for a pitcher is in the works, which would help convince him that to stay.

Maybe after that "big trade," Austin Kearns is STILL on the team. This alone should get Dunn to sign a deal, and ask for less than he would if Kearns was shipped out.

You do not want a disgruntaled super-star that just signed a long term deal. I don't think waiting til now is a bad thing.

I think this is a big part of the reason to wait, show him there is money to be spent and that if he gets a big contract, it won't keep the team from being competitive.

Heath
12-22-2005, 05:34 PM
I'm wondering if they were waiting for the new ownership group to come in before approaching Dunn.

Nugget
12-22-2005, 06:57 PM
Maybe Dunn's uncontactable. It is the holidays after all. Unlike the FO players don't work 24/7.

I don't think Dunn will take a loyalty discount. As someone said before Dunn views the REDS as just an employer and he really has made it be known previously that he would like to test the FA waters. Also he really hasn't said anything about the move to 1B. His previous announcements on the issue would seem to point to a preference to LF. So if the REDS couldn't guarantee him LF he may just wait it out. As we have seen the FA market is getting crazier and crazier each year. Dunn could find his own Texas Rangers next year and I hope its not the REDS. Even if he were fit and playing everyday the REDS would not be able to afford that kind of contract.

If he is willing to sign for a reasonable price all and good but hopefully they just don't throw money at him to keep him.

reds44
12-22-2005, 07:10 PM
I wonder if Dunn would want less if we promised him not to have to play 1st?


Probably not, but you never know.

Ravenlord
12-22-2005, 08:28 PM
why is it i have the feeling that this negotian is being done this way so that O'Brien can know exactly how much he can give Dunn in a one year deal before claiming he's out of budget?

schroomytunes
12-22-2005, 08:37 PM
I hear ya red leader. That's exactly my thinking on signing Dunn long-term.
I think the front end of the contract should be small, with the latter years being backloaded. I would go for a 5 year 55 million contract with a 6th year mutual option. Then after signing him I would sign the best free agent pitcher available to shore up the rotation.

TeamBoone
12-22-2005, 10:13 PM
I don't think Dunn will take a loyalty discount. As someone said before Dunn views the REDS as just an employer and he really has made it be known previously that he would like to test the FA waters.

I never heard this. Do you have a source?

And regarding Johnny Damon money, personally, I seriously doubt that Adam Dunn thinks he's worth that kind of money.

marcshoe
12-22-2005, 10:28 PM
At any rate, it's good to hear that this is on the front burner, particularly coming on the heels of the Freel and LaRue contracts. It's good that players of value are being recognized as such.

Nugget
12-22-2005, 11:18 PM
I never heard this. Do you have a source?


Tried finding it but I think it was Hal in quoting Dunn (admittedly a year ago) that he was willing to look at the Astros in free agency. That was on the back of him playing 1B.

If the REDS sign Dunn that's good but contract negotiations are a two way street and I presume that Dunn has a manager who would be looking at all options and getting the best for him.

4256 Hits
12-23-2005, 12:14 AM
And regarding Johnny Damon money, personally, I seriously doubt that Adam Dunn thinks he's worth that kind of money.

If Adam doesn't think that he should have an agent that does. There isn't a "smart" baseball person out there that would rather Damon for the next 4 years over Dunn. Dunn's stats over that time period will be much better than Damon's.

IMO if Dunn become a FA in two years and wants to go to the highest bider he will make close to 20 mil per year.

jnwohio
12-23-2005, 12:40 AM
I'm wondering if they were waiting for the new ownership group to come in before approaching Dunn.


This sounds credible to me. There are no true #1 starters available regardless of price. So, being front and center for the announcement of Dunn's signing of an LTC is about the loudest shot they could fire to show they are in charge and out to make their mark.

REDREAD
12-23-2005, 12:42 AM
Do you guys really think they can get Dunn to sign for an average of only $10 million per year? I just can't see it. I would love it, but don't think it's within the realm of possibility.

I agree. He's got only two more years to free agency, right?

He's not exactly thrilled to be here. I'm sure he hasn't forgotten about the stolen chair and jersey last year. Now they've just dumped Casey. Also, it looks like they are going to park him a 1b, which he doesn't want to do. Competiviely, they don't really look any better on paper for 2006 than they did in 2005.

Why would he settle for only 10 million/year? Why not just go year to year and then get the big payday? The Reds have lolligagged so long that Dunn is going to get a huge payday in arb. The time to offer Dunn less in exchange for security has past.

Boss-Hog
12-23-2005, 08:51 AM
Personally, I think the whole "Dunn doesn't want to play first" thing is being blown out of proportion. If he had his druthers, I'm sure he'd prefer to be playing in the outfield, but since Casey was traded, if he's a team player (and I have no reason to believe he isn't) I don't see why he would have a problem moving to first to solve the logjam. I've seen absolutely nothing from Dunn since Casey was traded that indicated he has a serious problem with playing first base.

Little Alex
12-23-2005, 08:58 AM
Dan-O probably eats his dessert first too...

creek14
12-23-2005, 09:11 AM
Well, about the whole Adam does/doesn't want to be in Cincinnati. On the HSL last week he said that he doesn't pay any attention to all the trade rumors that swirl about him. He said "If I'm traded, okay. If I get to stay in Cincinnati, great!" FWIW.

savafan
12-23-2005, 09:13 AM
And regarding Johnny Damon money, personally, I seriously doubt that Adam Dunn thinks he's worth that kind of money.

I seriously doubt Johnny Damon thinks he's worth Johnny Damon money.

TeamBoone
12-23-2005, 10:50 AM
Good point, Sava.

Redsland
12-23-2005, 11:26 AM
...if he's a team player (and I have no reason to believe he isn't) I don't see why he would have a problem moving to first...
Texas asked him to move from QB to TE. He quit the team, dropped out of college, threw away his scholarship, and walked away from football forever.

Just sayin'.

Redsland
12-23-2005, 11:30 AM
Tried finding it but I think it was Hal in quoting Dunn (admittedly a year ago) that he was willing to look at the Astros in free agency. That was on the back of him playing 1B.
I have zero memory of that. I'm gonna say it didn't happen until you show me I'm wrong.

What I do remember being reported was that, about this time last year, DanO said he'd broached the subject of an LTC with Dunn's people, and was told that they'd prefer to go year-to-year. End of statement.

One can conclude from that statement that Dunn wants max dollars through year six and to walk afterward, but neither he nor his people said that. Alternatively, Dunn's people could have said what they did when they did because they figured Dunn's stock was lower than it should have been after setting the K record, etc., so any LTC offered at the time would have been artificially low.

M2
12-23-2005, 11:41 AM
Texas asked him to move from QB to TE. He quit the team, dropped out of college, threw away his scholarship, and walked away from football forever.

Important to note that Texas wasn't offering him a starting TE job, just that maybe he might find his way onto the field during a game at some point in his college career if he made the shift. Meanwhile he had a very attractive offer to go play baseball.

My guess is Dunn will be amenable to a three-year deal that sets him up for life and allows him to pursue huge money after the 2008 season ... and that he's not going to be too hung up on positional concerns.

Edd Roush
12-23-2005, 11:48 AM
I really do hope that the FO finds their cajones and sign Dunn long term. He is now that heart and soul of this ball club and Castelini and friends need to recognize him as such.

It will be really hard to watch the Reds next year with virtually no good pitching and a superstar without his heart in the game.

Please Dan O save your rep, get Dunn signed before Spring Training

ochre
12-23-2005, 11:57 AM
Texas asked him to move from QB to TE. He quit the team, dropped out of college, threw away his scholarship, and walked away from football forever.

Just sayin'.
Right, but it's not like the other option was flipping burgers at the local Casa de carne.

creek14
12-23-2005, 12:01 PM
I have zero memory of that. I'm gonna say it didn't happen until you show me I'm wrong.

What I do remember being reported was that, about this time last year, DanO said he'd broached the subject of an LTC with Dunn's people, and was told that they'd prefer to go year-to-year. End of statement.

One can conclude from that statement that Dunn wants max dollars through year six and to walk afterward, but neither he nor his people said that. Alternatively, Dunn's people could have said what they did when they did because they figured Dunn's stock was lower than it should have been after setting the K record, etc., so any LTC offered at the time would have been artificially low.
I remember it. It was just said in passing. He said that at some point in his career he wouldn't mind playing for the Stos cause it was the team he grew up with. But he didn't sound like it was a buring desire (you know, like he has for me) or something he wanted to do in the near future.

OldRightHander
12-23-2005, 12:03 PM
But he didn't sound like it was a buring desire (you know, like he has for me)

Keep dreaming.
;)

RFS62
12-23-2005, 12:06 PM
Texas asked him to move from QB to TE. He quit the team, dropped out of college, threw away his scholarship, and walked away from football forever.

Just sayin'.


In Texas, the starting QB position at the University of Texas has a mythical quality. It's something he no doubt dreamed of since his early childhood.

Moving to tight end? I don't think so.

Not quite the same as the move to first base when you're already an established star in the majors.

I remember also reading that he wanted to go year to year instead of a long term deal. I think DanO is possibly just covering his butt with talk of offering a long term deal. That way if Dunn walks, at least we can say we tried.

I hope we can come up with something, but the way free agent contracts are going, it would be hard to pass up testing the market if I were Adam.

Redsland
12-23-2005, 12:07 PM
Creek: Oh, sure, I remember that comment. It was made in passing during this past season during a series with Houston. (It was teed up by a Houston writer.) It was not said last year during contract negotiations, as was claimed earlier.

M2/ochre: True enough. My statement was never meant to establish an apples/apples comparison. I was just reminding us all of a little history. Nothing more. (Given the choice he was facing at the time, I'd have done the same thing he did.)

creek14
12-23-2005, 12:12 PM
Keep dreaming.
;)
Hmmmm, might have to have *my people* break the other arm.
;) :p: ;)

NewEraReds
12-23-2005, 01:29 PM
It would be great, but I don't think Dunn would or should sign for that. He should get at least Damon money. $13 mil per sounds about right to me. Anything less than that, you can consider it a bargain.
i disagree. talent wise, sure. but the problem becomes when you start given young players huge contracts. damon has been around, hes won a world series. i dont think young players who havent won anything should be compared to older players who have, even talent says they should. 6-8 million a year for 2 or 3 more years would be good. then 10-12 for another 2. so 5 years, 38-48. you know hes gonna get the high end so 5 years 48 million is good. so the 5 for 50 i can live with it. 5 for 65 i dont think i could ;) now if thats what it takes, so be it, but i dont think it should

TeamBoone
12-23-2005, 01:54 PM
I remember Adam being asked if he'd like to play for the Astros... his response was (almost verbatim) "what guy wouldn't want to eventually play for the team he grew up watching". He never said word one about looking at the Astros when he becomes a free agent; he never even mentioned free agency.

I also remember the comment being blown way out of proportion by fans, some RZ members, and the media. Heck, many in RZ still say he's made it clear he wants to play for the Astros when that wasn't the case at all.

NewEraReds
12-23-2005, 02:02 PM
I remember Adam being asked if he'd like to play for the Astros... his response was (almost verbatim) "what guy wouldn't want to eventually play for the team he grew up watching". He never said word one about looking at the Astros when he becomes a free agent; he never even mentioned free agency.

I also remember the comment being blown way out of proportion by fans, some RZ members, and the media. Heck, many in RZ still say he's made it clear he wants to play for the Astros when that wasn't the case at all.
thats how i remember it too

Redsland
12-23-2005, 02:40 PM
Same here.

savafan
12-23-2005, 03:45 PM
Same here.

ditto

Nugget
12-26-2005, 05:30 AM
I stand coprrected - although I am pretty sure Hal's take on it was that Dunn was on the way out unless the REDS treated him right.

RedsBaron
12-26-2005, 08:51 AM
I remember it. It was just said in passing. He said that at some point in his career he wouldn't mind playing for the Stos cause it was the team he grew up with. But he didn't sound like it was a buring desire (you know, like he has for me) or something he wanted to do in the near future.
Oaky, offer Dunn a five year, $60 million deal+ Creek-that should do it, and I'm sure Creek will make the sacrifice for the Reds.

RedRoser
12-26-2005, 03:30 PM
Well, in effect it would be MR. Creek who'd be taking one (or giving one away :cry: ) for the team. Would he be willing to make the sacrifice for the good of the Reds? :eek: :evil:

---'Roser

RedsBaron
12-26-2005, 08:43 PM
Well, in effect it would be MR. Creek who'd be taking one (or giving one away :cry: ) for the team. Would he be willing to make the sacrifice for the good of the Reds? :eek: :evil:

---'Roser
If he's a true Reds fan he will.;)

StillFunkyB
12-26-2005, 08:58 PM
I remember it as well. I also remember thinking that the media would take it and spin it like he said he wants to play for the Astros, ASAP.

Someone asks you if you want to play for your hometown team, your going to say yes (most likely), and that's all he was saying.

creek14
12-28-2005, 04:51 PM
Well, in effect it would be MR. Creek who'd be taking one (or giving one away :cry: ) for the team. Would he be willing to make the sacrifice for the good of the Reds? :eek: :evil:

---'Roser
After today he would probably be willing to tie a big red bow around my neck (real tight) and send me on my way. :help: ;)

Crosley68
12-29-2005, 02:28 PM
Three days till DanO's priorities change!!!

TOBTTReds
12-29-2005, 02:34 PM
Three days till DanO's priorities change!!!

Like searching for a job?

KronoRed
12-29-2005, 03:50 PM
Like searching for a job?
We don't get that lucky

wheels
12-30-2005, 12:15 AM
It's very fortunate that Matt Morris wasn't signed.

Now DanO's gotta fall back to plan B, which should have been plan A in the first place.

We only have the fates to thank.

Hondo
12-30-2005, 06:15 PM
What will Dunn command? 6 years and 60 million for the Reds discount? I tell ya what, If Dan O would give Austin Kearns a 4 year Extension for like 10 million that would make Dunn more inclined to sign a LTC.....

TeamBoone
12-30-2005, 09:16 PM
Just get it Dunn!