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letsgojunior
04-18-2002, 07:01 PM
A few questions:

1. When can we expect to see Casey back?
2. What is the Griffey prognosis right now?
3. Is anyone in the organization growing tired of Bowden?
4. Is Adam Dunn really going to put the tobacco on EBAY?
5. Are we ever going to trade one of our 1000 "5-toolers" for a halfway decent pitcher?

Thanks again TCII! We love 'ya!

Spring~Fields
04-18-2002, 07:31 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by letsgojunior:
<strong>A few questions:

5. Are we ever going to trade one of our 1000 "5-toolers" for a halfway decent pitcher?

Thanks again TCII! We love 'ya!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now wait a minute, you have me all confused. :confused: According to the stats of the alleged 5-tool outfielders of the Cincinnati Reds only one has legitimate 5-tool outfielder credentials that could be considered for the following “Are we ever going to trade one of our 1000 "5-toolers" for a halfway decent pitcher?” and that is simply KGJ.

letsgojunior
04-18-2002, 07:59 PM
I was referring to Encarnacion, Mateo, Wily Mo, possibly Kearns, et al. Would you get off of trading KGJ already? I am sick of hearing about it. Griffey is more than just a 5-tooler. He is a franchise player and puts people in the seats. Griffey is necessary. He is our best offensive and defensive player. You don't trade the cornerstone, you trade the loose parts.

Redny
04-18-2002, 08:18 PM
Well put LGJ

Team Clark
04-18-2002, 09:06 PM
LGJ... Casey is day to day. He was scheduled to play yesterday and pulled himself from the lineup after running with the team. Every time he makes a sharp turn he gets "woozy". I would expect to see him start Sat or Sun. He did pinch hit today.

Griffey's prognosis is much better than expected. Because his legs were in such great shape the injury is healing at a very rapid pace. KGJ is working very hard and may return in 2 more weeks. His real test will be agility drills.

Everyone in this organization os sick of Bowden. He is the topic of almost every conversation. Time for him to go.

I'll ask Adam if I get the chance. I think that was a joke. You never know with Adam.

This winter may be the most active in Reds history. There are several players who are performing well for the Reds both in the minors and at the Major League level. Any and all could easily be traded for starting pitching. If the Reds get the 30-40 Million payroll bump they may even take a flier on Glavine.

I would expect Jimbo to be gone at season's end. HOWEVER, I was told by several sources, some of which were in the Reds front office, that Jimbo was a DEFINITE goner last winter. He's still here and they were wrong. We just have to wait and see. Look for Naehring to be the front runner if Jim is replaced.

<small>[ 04-18-2002, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

Buckeye33
04-18-2002, 09:19 PM
Team Clark, I would just like to re-enforce (sp?) what most everyone on this board feels. That is, we greatly appreciate your insight on this board.

Where else on the internet can you go and get info from someone actually on the "inside" about your favorite team?

Again, thanks.

letsgojunior
04-18-2002, 09:21 PM
Yeah, I think it is so cool that Team Clark always answers our questions and lets us know about the team. Thanks Team Clark, your insight is greatly appreciated.

MikeS21
04-18-2002, 09:32 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Look for Naehring to be the front runner if Jim is replaced. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And herein is the problem.

We needed a Lou Pinella and got stuck with Bob Boone. Now we need a "Lou Pinella-like" GM, and we're going to wind up with another "Bob Boone-like" GM. The lowest bidder gets the job.

Nothing against Naehring, but we need someone who has actually run a franchise before. And, I would like to see what JimBo could do with a $70 million payroll and additional funds for the farm system.

Chip R
04-18-2002, 09:39 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MikeS21:
<strong>Nothing against Naehring, but we need someone who has actually run a franchise before. And, I would like to see what JimBo could do with a $70 million payroll and additional funds for the farm system.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everybody has to start somewhere, Mike. If you're a JimBo fan, remember that he never was a GM before he started here either.

Team Clark
04-19-2002, 12:08 AM
Chip I have to agree. Naehring is WIDELY respected which I can't say for Jim. Tim has done an incredible job along with Leland Maddox and Casey McKeon of putting together a solid farm system.

I would much rather have Naehring running the organization than someone from the outside. Tim knows every player and every coach in the system. That in itself is half the battle for a new GM in my opinion. Doc Rodgers will undoubtedly get a look. So will Leland Maddox, Gary Hughes and possibly Johnny Bench.

Doc's star has fallen a bit in the past two seasons. (Long story)

Leland is 100% qualified for the job. He may take a job elsewhere if Jim and Doc are let go.

15fan
04-19-2002, 12:12 AM
"If the Reds get the 30-40 Million payroll bump they may even take a flier on Glavine."

Won't happen. Glavine's going to retire a Brave. Same with Maddux.

Barbarossa
04-19-2002, 01:30 AM
Team Clark, can you clear up another puzzlement for us? The reluctance on Bowdens part to bring up Fernandez? Do they think their catchers can't handle a knuckler or what? Corky Miller catches him in Louisville doesn't he? I think the guy deserves a shot! <img border="0" alt="[Beer Me]" title="" src="graemlins/beerme.gif" />

Team Clark
04-19-2002, 02:01 AM
15 Fan... I do agree that Glavine wants to be a Brave and may very well retire as a Brave. That doesn't mean teams will not be wooing him.

Barbarossa... Jared Fernandez is not on a lot of teams' radar screen despite putting up decent numbers in AAA. Some baseball people fear the knuckleball pitcher as they are unpredicatable pitchers. Bowden and Boone fall into that category.

Team Tuck
04-19-2002, 02:34 AM
Anybody else get the feeling that Team Clark is Hal McCoy's son?? Notice most of his posts somehow rip Bowden, even if it's not the subject at hand. One question, son of Hal, do you think there are many gm's who could do significantly better with a $45mm payroll, particularly when that gm is force-fed with a hefty $9mm contract for a 38 year old shortstop, effectively making the 'available' payroll even lower. I have a feeling you'll somehow say yes, but the numbers would prove otherwise. I think Bowden has made very few mistakes when it comes to contract negotiations, player trades, free agents, etc. And despite having to deal with bad luck and inherent disadvantages (Junior's injuries, Lark's contract, limited payroll), he has kept this team competitive in all but one season (2001).

By the way, the Reds will NOT bump payroll by $30 million next year. Some, but not $30 mil. I would have expected an insider to know that.

Catch22
04-19-2002, 03:12 AM
Well Team Tuck,
A post like that leaves everyone wondering if you're Jimbo's son...or perhaps Jimbo himself. I will grant you, Son of Jim, that Bowden has not had much to work with and all in all has made some good moves. However, most people have a problem with Jim Bowden the man, not Jim Bowden the GM. Let's just say I have it on pretty good authority that Pokey Reese (as much as I dislike that little man) wasn't lying when he said "If Jim Bowden's lips are moving, he's lying." The guy is a good GM, but I bet he would be a fantastic GM is he only dealt straight with people.

WebScorpion
04-19-2002, 04:46 AM
Perhaps his deceitful ways are what enable him to be the great GM that he is. Even in the human body, the sphincter has its purpose. :)

Even when he makes mistakes (Bichette) he somehow turns them into gold. (Reitsma) If we replace him with a lesser GM, will the extra money be wasted? How much of Bowden's success can be attributed to his talent scouts, coaches, and other parts of the organization? I don't know, but I certainly hope we don't find out the answers AFTER the fact.

buckeyenut
04-19-2002, 08:21 AM
Team Tuck,

I think an insider might actually be more frustrated with Bowden than some of us fans. He sees how Bowden treats people day to day whereas we just hear it sometimes second hand.

TC critizes Bowden as a person a lot but I think in general it is well deserved. I have seen far fewer people criticize Bowden the GM. In general, he is a low payroll magician, making us over the years far more competitive than we had any right to be.

Many people, TC included, criticize Bowden for his biggest weak spot, the "5-tool" OF. But I think in general, that is because he is searching for the diamond in the rough. It is far easier (not easy by any means though) to develop baseball skills than it is to make a guy run faster or throw harder. Still, that has to be Bowden's biggest weakness.

To sum it up, we see Bowden the GM and hear a little bit about Bowden the person. Anyone close to the team is going to see a whole lot more of Bowden the person and since that is his biggest liability, they would obviously think less highly of him than a normal fan might.

buckeyenut
04-19-2002, 08:29 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by letsgojunior:
<strong>I was referring to Encarnacion, Mateo, Wily Mo, possibly Kearns, et al. Would you get off of trading KGJ already? I am sick of hearing about it. Griffey is more than just a 5-tooler. He is a franchise player and puts people in the seats. Griffey is necessary. He is our best offensive and defensive player. You don't trade the cornerstone, you trade the loose parts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LGJ, don't worry. Nobody (on this thread anyways) is in any way suggesting that we trade Griffey. They are suggesting we trade someone else

They are actually complementing Jr by saying that he is really the only legitimate 5 tool outfielder we have on the team because he is the only one that actually produces with all five tools. Everyone else under the "5-tool" moniker is just raw talent who has done little to the ML level so far.

Team Clark
04-19-2002, 11:35 AM
Team Tuck... I wish you would read more closely. My beef with Bowden soley centers around his inability to handle sitautions with any type of class.

Having spent time with other GM's and having personally witnessed Jim interact with players, managers and other front office personnel I can say w/o question he has very bad people skills. His tirades are well known, his handling of managers has been suspect, he has ROYALLY screwed over dozens of players and his off the field issues have deeply affected not only him but the club.

Have you ever been in the clubhouse? Do you go on the road with the team at any point in the year? Have you ever witnessed Jim crash through the clubhouse doors and rip a player in front of everyone? Do you see all of the lies he generates and then has the PR Dept dish them out to the media? Do you witness the PR Director ripping his own club in front of the the media and then bullying the hometown press into writing non-truths? I didn't think you were there for any of those things. Your opinion is respected. Just do not try to change the facts if you were not there to be a witness.

<small>[ 04-19-2002, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

letsgojunior
04-19-2002, 11:46 AM
Geesh, does anyone (players, coaches) actually like Bowden? And who is this PR director guy? Rob Butcher? Maybe Oester was right - maybe we do need to clean house!

Az Red
04-19-2002, 12:37 PM
WOW! I usually stay out of the finger pointing threads, but I had no idea. This changes my whole perspective of Mr Bowden and the Reds.

The next logical question TC is:

Why does Uncle Carl and the BOD put up with it?

I would also like to hear your opinion on John Allen. Will he continue to hang over the franchise when GAB opens?

Oh, and out of professional courtesy, please, Team Clark is our only reliable inside source around here. I've been here long enough to respect the things he writes, so please don't take them out of context.

Catch22
04-19-2002, 12:41 PM
Very well said buckey and TC. Pretty much what I was trying to say above. Other than his fetish for '5-toolers', I think Bowden is a borderline (dare I say) genius of a GM. But as TC says, the guy has some real people 'issues' that pretty much negate his managerial qualities.
'Scorp, good call about the sphincter. I'm still laughing. I guess every front office needs its own sphincter, I'd just prefer that he wasn't the GM too. :)

malcontent
04-19-2002, 03:29 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>Have you ever been in the clubhouse? Do you go on the road with the team at any point in the year? Have you ever witnessed Jim crash through the clubhouse doors and rip a player in front of everyone?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Team Clark: You don't think Pokey had it coming?

Ga_Red
04-19-2002, 03:59 PM
2/09/07

Team Clark
04-19-2002, 10:28 PM
Point well taken Ga_Red but I am allowed to have an opinion just as you are. A lot of Jim's moves have been heavily criticized only to come out smelling like roses. You and I could argue all day about Bowden. He has more good points then bad. However, his bad points are so off the wall and so damaging at times they really shift the scales.

If you really knew what was going on behind closed doors with this club you wouldn't give this guy a break. For MANY years I thought Bowden could do no wrong until I became a member of the media. The things I have witnessed would blow your pants off. A great deal of his antics are never written about.

I just apprecaiate the fact that you argue intelligently and have a solid point. The best part of being a baseball fan is the right to disagree. Gossip columnist?? Well maybe. Baseball is gossip in a way. We just need to keep it above board. I have crossed that line a few times. Thanks for responding.

Spring~Fields
04-19-2002, 10:53 PM
Team Clark,

Ten long, long years of <img border="0" alt="[Smokin]" title="" src="graemlins/smokin.gif" /> Bowden and he never saw fit to build a long term pitching program until last year, ten years and nothing but rehabs. It is good to see that Bowden can no longer baffle them with the er um his marketing spew, he can no longer hide behind Marge's skirts or Lindners tight purse.

All I know is that he has produced another .500 team
They pay him for performance don't they? I doubt that Bowden would give someone ten years of chance with non-performance.

<small>[ 04-19-2002, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: SpringfieldFan ]</small>

Team Clark
04-20-2002, 12:03 AM
Good point Springfield. I think the point you made is what bothers fans the most(in my opinion).
It just seems like there is no plan. Just smoke and mirrors.

I don't want to continue to bash Jimbo. This thread was started by LGJ. He had some good questions. I answered them the best I could.

letsgojunior
04-20-2002, 12:27 AM
LGJ is a she :D

Team Clark
04-20-2002, 12:33 AM
Yes I knew that!! <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" /> DOH!! :D My apologies.

I really did know that "he" was a "she" and I still screwed it up. I guess I am McCoy's son after all! <img border="0" alt="[Pimpin]" title="" src="graemlins/pimp.gif" />

letsgojunior
04-20-2002, 01:33 AM
A long article by Sullivan in the Enquirer about Bowden from 4/1/01. It is mostly quotes and for some reason he continually refers to him as "Mr. Bowden"

Bowden makes deals - and enemies

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex-Boy Wonder still daring, driven

By Tim Sullivan
The Cincinnati Enquirer

Jim Bowden has made many bold moves as Reds GM. His best: getting Ken Griffey Jr.
(Michael E. Keating photo)
| ZOOM |
The arm-wrestling segment of the negotiating seminar was designed as an exercise in cooperation. But to Jim Bowden, it looked more like competition.

While other baseball executives conspired with their colleagues to trade wins and share the $1-per-pin purse, the Cincinnati Reds general manager grappled Cleveland's John Hart to the floor.

“Most of us would just go back and forth so you (each) got the most money,” San Diego general manager Kevin Towers says, recalling that November 1999 morning in Laguna Niguel, Calif. “But nobody ever set the ground rules. Bowden used both hands because he wanted to win.”

A table was turned over, a water pitcher was spilled and Mr. Bowden's reputation as baseball's enfant terrible was vividly reinforced.

LOVE HIM...
• “Jim is not humble, but we're not running for prom king here. We're trying to win a division.”
- Bill Reik, Reds minority owner
• “Give Jimmy a limited amount of resources and he'll figure it out.
- Dan O'Dowd, Rockies GM

...OR HATE HIM
• Jim Bowden is “one of the worst people in the world.”
- Ron Oester, Reds coach
• “We had a handshake deal that he wasn't going to trade me. Three months later, he traded me ... If I had been in the room with him, I would have killed him.”
- Jeff Shaw, Dodgers reliever
• “They say what goes around comes around. If that be the case, then he's going to get his some day.”
- Dave Collins, ex-Reds coach
The former Boy Wonder turns 40 this season - his ninth running Reds baseball operations - but the encroachment of middle age finds him as audacious as ever.

The Reds open the 2001 season Monday with the smallest payroll in the National League's Central Division. That they remain competitive and one of the game's few successful small-market franchises is largely a reflection of Mr. Bowden's ingenuity and daring.

Mr. Bowden was 31 years old when he became general manager on Oct. 16, 1992 — at the time, the youngest man to ever run a big-league ballclub. In the 8 1/2 years since, he has made 84 trades, including a club record 14 last year. He has made more deals in less time than the Reds' five previous general managers combined.

He has been the highest-ranking constant in an organization that has undergone dramatic changes in leadership and philosophy, and his fingerprints are all over the franchise. His willingness to trade established players for prospects has fortified a threadbare farm system. His single-minded pursuit of Ken Griffey Jr. helped bring the game's most glamorous player back to his hometown last year. In the face of daunting payroll reductions, Mr. Bowden has managed to raise the profile and expectations of Reds baseball.

His ability to make enemies is equally impressive.

Following the Reds' messy search for a new manager last year, a Dayton Daily News column headline labeled him “The Lowest of the Low.” Reds coach Ron Oester, who claimed Mr. Bowden manipulated him out of the job, called him “one of the worst people in the world.”

“They say what goes around comes around,” says former Reds coach Dave Collins. “If that be the case, then he's going to get his some day.”

Jim Bowden offered the manager's job to Ron Oester, then gave it to Bob Boone.
(Jeff Swinger photo)
| ZOOM |
Major-league baseball can be a cold-blooded business, but few front-office figures generate as much heat as Mr. Bowden. Several executives cite the wrestling match with Mr. Hart to illustrate his competitive zeal, ability to turn the rules to his advantage and willingness to work on the edge.

Not all these traits are universally admired, but his critics generally acknowledge that Mr. Bowden's results exceed his resources.

This helps explain why he endures in Cincinnati while aggravating so many in baseball. Mr. Bowden was named Baseball's Executive of the Year by several publications in 1999, but failed to finish in the top three in the vote of his peers. One National League general manager, asked if Mr. Bowden is the most disliked man in baseball, replied, “He's in a league of his own.”

“Jim is not humble, but we're not running for prom king here,” Reds minority owner Bill Reik says. “We're trying to win a division.”

"He knows his stuff'

During Mr. Bowden's reign, the Reds have won one division title, were in first place when the 1994 players' strike hit, and have a 639-592 won-lost record. The Reds' record ranks ninth in the major leagues during that span, even though the club's average payroll stands only 17th. Only the Chicago White Sox and Houston Astros have won more often while spending less than Jim Bowden.

“He's got an uncanny ability of making the best out of what he's dealt,” says Reds chief operating officer John Allen, who has had a strained relationship at times with Mr. Bowden. “From a nonbaseball perspective, that's salesmanship.”

Bowden at batting cage.
(Jeff Swinger photo)
| ZOOM |
“Give Jimmy a limited amount of resources, and he'll figure it out,” says Colorado Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd. “He knows his stuff, boy. He's not afraid to make a mistake, doesn't play that game of cover-your-butt.”

Mr. Bowden says the frequency of his trades is a reflection of today's game, in which players' mobility and escalating salaries have made continuity an antiquated concept. Yet dollars aren't the only factor influencing his acquisitive tendencies.

“He's a real wheeler-dealer,” Reds shortstop Barry Larkin says.

His success stems from the ability to process intricate knowledge of the marketplace — from contractual nuances of veteran players to control difficulties of minor-league pitchers — and a willingness to gamble that he knows a little more than the next guy.

“I remember having a discussion with our people in the years where we drafted 20th,” Mr. Bowden says. “They'd ask, "Why are we going to waste the money and our time to go see the top 10 players in the country?' I'd say, "Because when their stock goes down, we're going to trade for them.'

“You've got to know what everybody has. You've got to know what's in the draft, what's in Single A, Double A, Triple A. We've got to scout and prepare the other organizations as if it's our own. We want to know more about their players than they do.”

5 BEST TRADES
• Acquired Ken Griffey Jr. from Seattle for P Brett Tomko and Jake Meyer, OF Mike Cameron, and INF Antonio Perez in 2000.
• Acquired Danny Graves, P Jim Crowell and Scott Winchester and INF Damian Jackson from Cleveland for P John Smiley and INF Jeff Branson in 1997.
• Acquired 1B Dmitri Young from St. Louis for P Jeff Brantley in 1997.
• Traded P Dave Burba on the eve of his 1998 Opening Day start for 1B Sean Casey.
• Acquired C Eddie Taubensee from Houston for P Ross Powell and Marty Lister in 1994.
5 BEST RECLAMATION PROJECTS
• Signed OF Eric Davis out of retirement in 1996.
• Signed P Jeff Shaw as nonroster free agent on Dec. 31, 1995.
• Signed OF Ron Gant as free agent after dirt-bike accident in 1994.
• Claimed P Pete Schourek on waivers from Mets in 1994.
• Signed P Pete Harnisch as a free agent in 1998.
5 WORST MOVES
• Traded OF Paul O'Neill to Yankees for OF Roberto Kelly in 1992.
• Signed C Damon Berryhill as free agent in 1995 and lost a first-round draft pick.
• Left P Trevor Hoffman unprotected in 1992 expansion draft.
• Fired Tony Perez after 44 games as manager in 1993.
• Traded P Gabe White to Colorado for P Manny Aybar in 2000.
This is an ambitious goal, but Mr. Bowden may have enough energy to accomplish it. More than once, he has surprised rival executives with his detailed analysis of their personnel. At least once, he has made a trade proposal by voice mail at 3 a.m. He has proposed literally hundreds of deals, including several involving more than two teams and more than one involving another team's manager. (He admits seeking Jim Leyland - who filled out lineup cards in Pittsburgh, Florida and Colorado - but declines to name other managers he sought in trade out of respect to the men they might have replaced).

“We were talking about (former Reds pitcher) Mike Remlinger,” Philadelphia general manager Ed Wade says. “I offered (pitcher) Tyler Green. Jim said he would do the deal if I would include (executive) Dallas Green. I laughed, but he was serious. Dallas said, "You should have taken the deal.' Looking back, I let a slightly overweight, slightly middle-aged man stand in the way of us getting a quality left-hander.”

One of Mr. Bowden's strengths is that he lets little stand in the way once he fixates on a player.

“I like dealing with Jim because things can work quick,” says Oakland general manager Billy Beane, although he has yet to make a deal with the Reds. “He works at a fast pace.”

One of Mr. Bowden's shortcomings is that in situations that call for delicate diplomacy, he can be blunt and brusque.

“To me, Jim is like a really good doctor with sometimes bad bedside manner,” says Brian Goldberg, the agent for Ken Griffey Jr. “We all to some degree have an ego, but he probably has more of it than the average person.”

Mr. Bowden chased Mr. Griffey so publicly last winter that Mr. Allen ordered him to stop rather than continue raising fan hopes about a deal the Reds weren't sure they could afford. Several sources say Mr. Bowden's histrionics in the Griffey talks so infuriated the Seattle Mariners that they refused to deal with him one-on-one in final deliberations. When the Mariners re-signed manager Lou Piniella last November, following an overture by the Reds, Mariners CEO Howard Lincoln said his determination to get the deal done was motivated in part by the Griffey experience.

“I really, quite frankly, didn't want to listen to Jim Bowden crowing again in Cincinnati,” Mr. Lincoln said in a radio interview.

Mr. Bowden's view is that the Mariners claimed a rift with him in order to seek a better deal from Mr. Allen -- a standard negotiating tactic.

“I don't blame them for that,” Mr. Bowden says. “We (Reds officials) laughed about it.”

Ultimately, because of the dollars involved, closing the deal required the involvement of Reds chief executive officer Carl Lindner. Still, Mr. Bowden's persistence made the deal possible. He rallied public opinion until Mr. Lindner recognized the chance to play hometown hero.

“Jim's general philosophy,” says Reds assistant general manager Doc Rodgers, “is that "can't' is not acceptable.”

Deals on Daddy's lap

James G. Bowden IV remembers proposing baseball deals at 4 or 5 years old, seated on his dad's lap. He quickly developed the dream of running his own team.

SPECIAL SECTION

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“My dad said it would never happen,” Mr. Bowden says. “He said those jobs go to the guys who play the game of baseball. I said if I couldn't do that, I wanted to be a play-by-play announcer.”

Mr. Bowden was raised in Weston, Mass., an affluent suburb of Boston. The Bowdens summered in Boothbay Harbor, Maine, where Carousel was filmed. (His salesman father, James G. III, was a sailing extra in the opening credits.) Yet unlike some men who list two hometowns and Roman-numeraled names, Jim Bowden's upbringing was comparatively middle class, and his education was public.

His baseball career at Weston High was distinguished mainly by a diving catch at first base to preserve the no-hitter of his friend, Doug Roth. He also demonstrated a rare talent for invective.

“Even though his athletic abilities were really limited, it didn't stop him from talking a stream of trash that was unrivaled,” classmate Allen Reilly recalls. “There were many instances of him getting into scraps.”

Mr. Bowden admits his bench jockeying may have fomented one fight, but he doesn't volunteer details. Classmates remember him as a tart tongue in the back of the classroom - a sarcastic member of a small, mischievous clique.

Scott Duhaime claims Bowden set an unofficial school record in the 100-yard dash while sprinting to a getaway car during a Christmas prank.

“My folks had a four-foot plastic Santa Claus that we would place out on the front porch during the holidays,” Mr. Duhaime said. “During senior year, Jim became so obsessed with our pint-sized Kris Kringle that he attempted to kidnap it one night after my family had retired for the evening. With his functionality clearly impaired after a night of holiday revelry, it took poor Jim a few minutes to realize that we had tied Santa to the railing. During this discovery period, Jim made quite a racket trying to drag Santa from the porch, and he woke up the whole house.”

Mr. Bowden claims no memory of the incident.

“Every time I talk to Jim, I'll bring up jokes or memories and he will not acknowledge or remember them,” says Mr. Roth, an alleged accomplice in the Santa Claus caper who declined to confirm the story. “It's almost like he's beyond that now. I don't think he really relates to Weston.”

Mr. Bowden remains close to Mr. Roth. After the pitcher earned a scholarship to Rollins College, Mr. Bowden enrolled there, too. Their bonding deepened during 26-hour, nonstop drives between Weston and the Orlando, Fla., campus.

“One time, after driving 22 hours, we decided to stop in Jacksonville,” Mr. Roth says. “We pulled into a hotel, checked in, and Jim said we were going to get a drink. We walked into this bar, and it was all black and the people looked at us like, why are we here? But that kind of thing didn't bother Jim.”

Mr. Bowden invoked the name of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and persuaded the bartender to serve him in the spirit of brotherhood.

Crucial acquaintance

If Jim Bowden has ever suffered from stage fright, he has concealed it behind an uninhibited facade. He drives a black Porsche with the vanity plate “BODES” and favors bright-colored sweaters and provocative suits.

“He draws attention to himself by being out there on a very extroverted level,” Mr. Roth says. “He would be so far out in left field sometimes that it was embarrassing. He would have been perfect for Animal House.”

THINKER'S BRAIN
Jim Bowden seems to have emerged from his trials more eager to know himself. Acknowledging a problem with arrogance, he has sought advice from Reds consultant Jon Niednagel, director of the Brain Type Institute, which evaluates personnel for companies.
“Jim's a thinker,” Mr. Niednagel says. “He's always thinking in terms of strategizing and how can we make this system better. His type is an excellent problem-solver. They love to have a scenario that's almost chaotic to see how can I make sense of it.
“Typically, with that wiring, you'll find a little more potential for conflict ... Thinking is the opposite of feelings.”
Mr. Niednagel has identified 16 basic brain types and says Mr. Bowden's is similar to that of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Teddy Roosevelt and computer entrepreneurs Bill Gates and Paul Allen.
“They are high-energy people,” Mr. Niednagel says. “They need to slow down a little more, listen a little more and be a little more careful. Secondarily, they're very creative and imaginative. Sometimes, they need to be more down to earth.”

Mr. Bowden responds that his collegiate philosophy was to work hard and play hard. True, he appeared at a Rollins basketball game dressed as a female cheerleader as part of a fraternity initiation. But his ambitions never wavered.

While watching the World Series his freshman year, Mr. Bowden became involved in a debate about the details of a trade involving outfielder Mike Easler. He returned to watch the next game armed with a baseball reference book. Determined to settle the argument, he inquired as to the whereabouts of his antagonist, Squire Galbreath.

Someone pointed to the television.

“Squire,” Mr. Bowden recalls, “was sitting in the front row at the World Series.”

Until that moment, Mr. Bowden says, he was unaware that his friend's family owned the Pittsburgh Pirates. He could barely have imagined how that connection would launch his career.

When baseball's winter meetings were held in Hollywood, Fla., in 1981, Mr. Bowden was allowed to sit in on Pirate trade talks and remembers the bloated buildups given Dodgers prospects by general manager Al Campanis. As seniors, Mr. Bowden and Mr. Galbreath worked out an independent-study program that involved frequenting the Pirates' spring complex in Bradenton, Fla., and interviewing such visiting luminaries as Johnny Bench, the Reds' Hall of Fame catcher.

By then, Mr. Bowden was sports director of the campus radio station. He did play-by-play for baseball and soccer games and was paired one baseball season with Chris Russo, now the “Mad Dog” of New York's WFAN. But he was not overwhelmed with job offers.

“My dad said, "What's Jim doing?'” Mr. Galbreath says. “I told him he was looking for a job. He said, "If he's still as keen on baseball, maybe he could do some thing for the Pirates.'”

Mr. Bowden was hired as the third man in the publicity department in 1984. He performed the most menial tasks - making copies, running errands - until his work ethic attracted the attention of general manager Syd Thrift.

“He was a tireless worker,” Mr. Thrift says. “He'd work night and day on Thanksgiving Day. That's the way I worked.”

Mr. Thrift observed Mr. Bowden's computer proficiency and sought his help in organizing scouting reports. Eventually, Mr. Bowden went to work for him as assistant director of player development and scouting.

“He used to sit in the box with me during games and I'd see these different things going on on the field, but he couldn't see them,” Mr. Thrift says. “He used to get so mad. He'd throw things in trash cans. He was determined he would be able to learn all the things that I knew. He was a very fast learner. I always grilled him with questions.”

He was sufficiently impressed to bring Mr. Bowden along in 1989 as his assistant when he became a New York Yankees senior vice president. But Mr. Thrift lasted less than a year under irascible owner George Steinbrenner. When Mr. Bowden was asked if he intended to follow Mr. Thrift out the door, he was unable to make a commitment and was soon fired.

“I got dispatched by George to let him go,” says Bob Quinn, then the Yankees general manager. “I was told to tell him and walk him out of the building. I was told we wanted to protect what was in the computer. Jim had tears in his eyes.”

Mr. Quinn told Mr. Bowden on their way out that his own time with the Yankees appeared short and that he would try to hire him at his next stop. But Mr. Bowden says that when he called Mr. Steinbrenner to ask about severance pay, The Boss asked if he wanted to come back. The Los Angeles Dodgers also expressed interest, Mr. Bowden says, but backed off when a story was leaked alleging that he had been fired for stealing computer files.

Subsequent examination of Mr. Bowden's files turned up a note criticizing the Yankees' operation, Mr. Quinn says, but no proof of computer piracy. When Mr. Quinn became general manager of the Reds, then ruled by owner Marge Schott's frugality, he fulfilled his promise.

“I thought he was a bright young guy who could come in and help us turn this thing around,” Mr. Quinn says. “Both of my sons told me, "This guy will get your job.'”

Mr. Quinn won a World Series with the 1990 Reds, but his deliberate style clashed with Mrs. Schott's notorious impatience, and their relationship deteriorated rapidly. Mr. Bowden, meanwhile, was aggressively cultivating the Reds' quirky owner as administrative assistant for scouting and player development.

Some front-office members believed he was her spy. To trap him, player development director Howie Bedell told Mr. Bowden - and no one else - he had rented a Cadillac during spring training in 1991, confident the story would get back to Mrs. Schott. Soon enough, Mr. Quinn was ordered to demand an explanation of the fake extravagance.

By August, Mr. Bowden had replaced Mr. Bedell.

“Jim had a penchant for trying to eliminate people,” Mr. Quinn says, “which is unfortunate as hell. It's almost to the point where the guy can't help himself. If he perceives someone is encroaching on his turf, he takes the (steps) to eliminate them.”

Schott's ear

Given Mrs. Schott's unforgiving management style, Mr. Quinn's quick exit was likely inevitable. She employed five general managers in her first nine years running the Reds and replaced them so rapidly that she was sometimes unable to remember their names.

Yet she saw in Mr. Bowden a more kindred collaborator — decisive, yet deferential, a young father fond of dogs. Mr. Bowden might argue with her privately, but he could be counted on to publicly endorse her decisions and take any blame that accrued from them.

“She knew where I stood, always,” Mr. Bowden says. “If she came in screaming and yelling at me, instead of putting my tail between my legs, I'd scream back. Bob Quinn was a different style. He didn't want confrontation. He didn't want to talk back. He didn't want to give a strong opinion.”

If Mr. Bowden developed a reputation for undermining his superiors, he demonstrated no fear of intrigue in assembling his staff. Rather than eliminate threats, he collected them. He surrounded himself with accomplished advisers such as future Reds managers Davey Johnson, Jack McKeon and Bob Boone — always insisting that proximity to good minds helped make him smarter.

“One thing I admire about Jim is that he was not afraid to hire a guy who was a former manager and GM who might be thinking about taking his job,” Mr. McKeon says. “Most GMs don't want to saddle themselves with another guy who could be sitting in the wings. He's got some guts.”

Guts likely had nothing to do with Mr. Bowden hiring the inexperienced Tony Perez as his first manager. Mrs. Schott openly favored him, but the Cuban-born Mr. Perez later challenged her motives, accusing her of hiring him because she needed a minority to blunt criticism over some of her racist remarks.

Asked if hiring Mr. Perez was his call, Mr. Bowden says, “No comment.” Mr. Bowden does say in retrospect that a rookie general manager should not be paired with a rookie manager, that he should have allowed Mr. Perez more than 44 games before firing him and that he should not have done it over the phone.

The firestorm that followed this decision was the most intense of Mr. Bowden's career. Widely vilified for his shabby treatment of a Reds icon, Mr. Bowden told a reporter the next day he was wearing a brown suit because it hid the blood stains.

“I wasn't ready for the job from a mental standpoint or an emotional standpoint,” Mr. Bowden says now. “But when you get the chance, you don't say no.”

"I've matured'

If firing Mr. Perez so quickly was a function of immaturity, it was also evidence of Mr. Bowden's risk tolerance. It was the first of many instances in which he chose conviction over convenience.

The first impressions Mr. Bowden made as general manager were of a man supremely confident and occasionally shrill. Critics referred to him as “Abner,” as in Doubleday, on the theory Mr. Bowden believed he had invented the game. Subordinates were struck by his high-decibel, highly profane tirades.

Former Reds public relations director Jon Braude says the only time he's come to blows in his life was when he struck Mr. Bowden for screaming at him in an argument over TV coverage. About the same time, Mr. Bowden fired minor-league field coordinator Jim Tracy in a loud and public scene after they failed to reach contract terms.

Mr. Tracy, now manager of the Dodgers, is brief and cryptic when asked about his experience with Mr. Bowden. “I'm not real good at throwing stones,” he says.

“In a lot of ways, I've matured,” Mr. Bowden says. “I've learned to delegate authority better, learned to treat people better, learned to be better prepared for all situations. ... I'm certainly not where I need to be, but I think I've come a long way.”

Some former Reds executives believe Mr. Bowden sometimes raised his voice mainly for Mrs. Schott's benefit and that his behavior was better modulated in her absence. Still, if Mr. Bowden impressed Mrs. Schott with his toughness, his influence on her was inconsistent.

Like other general managers before him, he was usually able to persuade her to raise the major-league payroll, but getting approval for other expenditures could be excruciating. Mrs. Schott's contempt for scouting sometimes forced the Reds to select draft choices based on incomplete impressions. A snap judgment, Mr. Bowden contends, caused the Reds to miss superstar shortstop Derek Jeter in the first round of the 1992 amateur draft.

When Mrs. Schott was stripped of day-to-day authority over the Reds in 1996, Mr. Allen changed the club's spending patterns. He freed up funds for scouting and minor-league development while trimming payroll to a level more consistent with the Reds' market size.

This forced Mr. Bowden to stretch his dollars and led to the trades of several accomplished veterans. But it also allowed for closer inspection of potential draft choices and caused the Reds to start stockpiling younger players (many acquired in trade) instead of relying so heavily on retreads. A farm system that had been fallow for 15 years was recently ranked third in major-league prospects.

When the Reds lacked legitimate prospects to promote or trade, Mr. Bowden relied largely on calculated risks and wild stabs to remain competitive. He signed Ron Gant when the Atlanta slugger was recovering from a dirt-bike accident and traded for Mark Wohlers when the Braves reliever couldn't throw strikes. Mr. Bowden has taken flyers, with mixed results, on such reclamation projects as Eric Davis, Pete Harnisch, Kevin Mitchell, Mark Portugal, Deion Sanders (repeatedly) and Ruben Sierra. He has been right enough to write off his losses.

Gutsy trades

Getting Mr. Griffey will be the move that defines Mr. Bowden in baseball history. Yet the deal that best reveals his mind-set may be trading pitcher Dave Burba to Cleveland for first-base prospect Sean Casey on the eve of Mr. Burba's 1998 Opening Day start.

“There are not a lot of GMs who would do that,” Texas general manager Doug Melvin says. “He's got (nerve).”

Later that season, Mr. Bowden traded reliever Jeff Shaw on the eve of the All-Star break — when Mr. Shaw was the Reds' only All-Star.

“We had a handshake deal that he wasn't going to trade me,” Mr. Shaw says. “Three months later, he traded me. ... If I had been in the room with him, I would have killed him.”

Mr. Bowden disputes the handshake agreement, but agrees the outcome was unfair. Mr. Shaw had signed a discounted contract to stay near his Washington Court House home, only to be shipped to Los Angeles.

Mr. Bowden still resists no-trade clauses, but has agreed to several contracts that provide for a salary increase if a player is traded - in part because of the Shaw trade.

Because he is receptive to such concepts, agents applaud his creativity. When the Reds signed Tony Fernandez as a third baseman, agent Tom Reich says, they agreed to trade him if another team wanted him as a shortstop. There was no way to put such a clause in the contract, but Mr. Reich was satisfied with Mr. Bowden's word.

Fellow executives, even those who dislike Mr. Bowden, admire his new methods to exploit old rules. Frequently cited were his trades before the 1997 expansion draft that locked in which players the Reds would lose. He traded Mike Kelly to Tampa Bay and Felix Rodriguez to Arizona, each for a “player to be named later” who would be drafted and then immediately returned to the Reds.

“I think there are a number of people who wish they had thought of that first,” St. Louis general manager Walt Jocketty says. “Including me.”

Mr. Bowden readily admits his first trade was his worst. On his 19th day on the job, he traded outfielder Paul O'Neill to the Yankees for outfielder Roberto Kelly. Mr. O'Neill became a batting champion and has won four World Series with the Yankees. Mr. Kelly has become a vagabond, bouncing from team to team without making much of a mark.

Though he concedes this mistake, Mr. Bowden is not renowned for humility. Many baseball executives -- including some in the Reds offices -- found his blow-by-blow descriptions of the Griffey deal self-serving and offensive.

One Reds source says Mr. Allen flew to Florida specifically to reprimand Mr. Bowden for the spin of some of the post-trade stories.

“We tried to tell the truth of what happened,” Mr. Bowden says, arguing that the deal deserved extraordinary disclosure because of its historic nature. “And I think some people may have misinterpreted.”

“He made a great deal with Seattle, but I don't think you have to talk about it,” Mr. Jocketty says. “I would hope to never put another GM in a bad light, and I think that may have happened in that case.”

Lindner's support

Other baseball executives are less concerned about etiquette. In a universe with only 30 teams, no man can afford to let personal feelings prevent him from making a deal that might help his team.

“If you're well-liked by everybody in this business,” Mr. Towers says, “there's probably something wrong. The most important thing is that the CEO likes you.”

Though Mr. Bowden's public persona is far more flamboyant than Mr. Lindner's, the Reds CEO clearly values his contributions.

In 1998, with one year remaining on his Reds contract and no extension in sight, Mr. Bowden interviewed with the Dodgers and the Baltimore Orioles. The Dodgers selected Kevin Malone, but before the Orioles had settled on a candidate, Mr. Lindner stepped in. Then a limited partner with no formal authority over Mrs. Schott, he told Mr. Bowden of his desire to keep him in Cincinnati and spoke up at a partners meeting on his behalf. Mr. Bowden later signed a four-year contract extension that runs through 2003.

Last winter, amid allegations he had maneuvered Mr. Oester out of the Reds' managing job, Mr. Bowden was blistered with criticism. Simultaneously, while Mr. Bowden was separated from his wife and openly dating, some top Reds officials wondered how that might play with the decorous Mr. Lindner.

The two stories, one insider acknowledged, posed a potentially “lethal combination” in conservative Cincinnati. Through channels, however, Mr. Lindner made it known that Mr. Bowden's job was in no immediate danger. (Mr. Lindner did not respond to interview requests.)

Performance measures

Like all baseball executives, Mr. Bowden's future with his franchise is tied most tightly to performance.

Should the Reds stumble en route to their new stadium, Mr. Bowden's personal style may seem a bigger problem and/or an excuse for Mr. Allen to hire his own man. Conversely, should Mr. Bowden continue to outperform his payroll, some ambitious owner may seek permission to woo him.

“It will be interesting to see when he gets into a new ballpark and has the revenues to go with it,” Mr. Wade says. “He's been very creative with what he's done.”

Mr. Collins, the former Reds coach who's now a minor-league manager in the Colorado organization, respects Mr. Bowden's intelligence and diligence, but wonders if his operation is too divisive and distrustful for sustained success.

“I've never been a part of an organization where there was less harmony, less encouragement, (people) not supporting one another, never knowing what the true purpose was,” he says. “You've got to understand the importance of chemistry, and I don't think he does.”

Several of Mr. Bowden's assistants say he has become more sensitive in recent years, more contemplative, less quick on the trigger — both in his decisions and his outbursts. Mr. Rodgers lauds Mr. Bowden for his willingness to admit his mistakes and his constructive approach to others' errors.

“He has definitely not mellowed by any stretch of the imagination,” Mr. Rodgers says. “But he's definitely more aware of his effect upon other people. After '95, there was a definite change. He had won.”

Because he has won more often than his payroll should permit, Jim Bowden has attained a grudging respect among his peers. Proposals that once established him as a minority of one - instant-replay umpiring, for instance - are now gaining popularity. Procedural rules he has exploited have been changed lest he be allowed a competitive advantage.

“I kind of blanch at all the criticisms,” says Mr. Reik, the Reds minority owner. “Jim has to be aggressive with our payroll, and what this guy does just mystifies me. Does he make mistakes? Yep. Have there been some big ones? Yep. But he's really good. And I think he's gotten better.”

The road to maturity has its detours. Last year, as his marriage fell apart, Mr. Bowden asked that a line be removed from the Reds media guide that called him “a man with great character, integrity and family values.”

It was, Mr. Bowden says, one of the hardest things he has had to do in baseball, but it also indicates a sense of accountability. The guide continues to describe him as “one of the brightest and most innovative minds in the game of baseball today,” but the adjective “young” has been deleted.

Jim Bowden, former Boy Wonder, is not yet the man he wants to be. Neither, however, is he the same man he once was. However gradually, he has been growing into his job for eight years. Some day, his image may catch up with his evolution.

Maybe not.

“Once you get a label,” Doc Rodgers asks, “how do you get unlabeled?”

Team Tuck
04-20-2002, 11:34 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SpringfieldFan:
<strong>

All I know is that he has produced another .500 team.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry to get on you so hard TC. Your response makes sense. I don't have the ability to judge his people skills, nor do I want to. And let's face it - if the Reds, by some long shot, were to repeat the '99 season again this year, the fans would love Bowden no matter how poorly he treats his own.

All I ask is people to be fair. If you have problem with the gm from a baseball perspective, say why. The point about not developing good starting pitching is valid. But too many refer to all the 'bonehead' moves without specifically mentioning one. Honestly, when you look at his track record, there aren't too many bonehead moves. Hard to make great trades when the purpose of every trade is to dump another $3-4m in salary. As for the comment above, the game has changed dramatically in ten years. When the game was balanced, he put together playoff teams (94-95). Even when he hasn't had a competitive payroll, he won 96 games in '99 and 85 more in '00. Do people realize how difficult it is to be .500 with this payroll?? Ask Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Montreal, Florida, Philadelphia, Minnesota, Detroit, Tampa Bay - all teams in similar payroll situations with fewer wins than the Reds over the past 5 years. Only one comes to mind - Oakland - that has surpassed the Reds' success with a small payroll. And that's why the criticism about developing young starters is valid - that's the difference between Oakland and Cincinnati. Unfortunately, payroll has to be a factor in every discussion evaluating a gm. That's baseball in 2002.

Team Clark
04-20-2002, 12:31 PM
Fair Enough TT. I can see where you are coming from.

Waterboy
04-20-2002, 01:54 PM
TC, Your insight on the Reds is greatly appreciated. As you well know , opinions on Papa Boone have been widely documented by us fans on this board . I'd be curious to know your opinion on what his players think about him . Obviously much more important than what WE think ! My apologies if this has been discussed before & I missed it .

Wheelhouse
04-20-2002, 03:13 PM
TC I have to agree with you. A conjecture I've made on the board seems more likely to be true now after reading your posts, and it is this: the Reds play worse at home than on the road because Jim Bowden has created such a culture of stress at Cinergy that it is a terrible place to go to work.

Team Clark
04-20-2002, 05:42 PM
I would love to give you some insight on how the players feel about Bob Boone. I really do not think I should go on record at this time of year and tell you how they feel good or bad. Talking about Bowden and his exploits is one thing considering most if not all of his good and bad has already been made public. Boone is another story. The criticism has come mostly from fans. With any manager there are players that do not like him. To be expected. There are players who love him. I would rather not get into any Boone bashing at this time.

I made the mistake last year of giving some insight about a few players and several people objected. Some people loved it and were intrigued. I probably should not have commented at the time. So, this time I will leave it alone.

I will say this for Bob Boone. He has done a much better job DEALING with the players than he did last year. The Griffey episode really brought that to light. I PERSONALLY believe he gained the repect of a few more players this spring.

Reds4Life
04-20-2002, 05:51 PM
Team Clark,

How do people within the Reds feel about Carl Lindner? Are they sick of his cheapness as well?

letsgojunior
04-20-2002, 06:01 PM
TCII, what was the story with the McKeon firing? There were rampant rumors at the time that Larkin got him fired and that leaving early on the last day was a sign of disrespect. What is the real story on that matter? Thanks again :)

Wheelhouse
04-20-2002, 07:15 PM
Hey TC-

I bet the majority of the players who dislike Boone are pitchers... and why would ANYBODY object to you relaying information about the Reds? Isn't that part of the reason the board exists?

<small>[ 04-20-2002, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Wheelhouse ]</small>

Team Clark
04-20-2002, 11:11 PM
Reds4life.... I rarely hear any comments about Linder. I have met him on three or four occasions but I have yet to talk to him at length. That would be a great interview. He's not an "interactive" owner so the players see him very little.

LGJ... The McKeon firing is a GREAT story. I was with the team in St. Louis the last day of the 2000 season when he was to be fired. Truly a comical scene when all of the writers were hovered around the manager's door after the game waiting for ANYTHING to happen. Jim Bowden was there with the club. This is a VERY long story. I remember it like it was yesterday. We were all shocked when McKeon was not fired that day. I think he was too. I remember the coaches having to meet Bowden the next day in Cincinnati to find out if they had jobs. Really out of the ordinary. Some of the coaches were pissed because they had travel arrangements to leave from St. Louis and they had to go back to Cincy. What a day that was. I'll have to sit down with you sometime and tell the whole story. This post would be 25 pages long. I also remember wondering where Barry and JR were after the game. I spoke with both of them before that game and made plans to go visit them in the coming months. There was never any mention of leaving that day a few innings early. Not that they had to report to me or anything. Sean Casey was pretty pissed about it.

Wheelhouse... People can object for whatever reason they choose. I remember getting into some pretty heated exchanges over the whole episode. I would like to avoid that if at all possible.

<small>[ 04-20-2002, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

geo_j
04-20-2002, 11:44 PM
Personnally I think it is funny that a unknown reporter has more insights on what is happening with this team then Joe and Marty who have reported on the Reds for decades, any of the regular reporters on either of Cincinnati major papers, or any of the major national reporters.

I also find it funny that Ken Griffey Jr. who hates dealing with reporters at all, would have one visit him during the off season.

Jim Bowden, Bob Boone, and most players knows better then to give their feelings, their likes and dislikes, or personal infomation to any reporter. Particularly one who is unknown and is trying to make a name for himself.

I am sorry Team Clark, but if I had to choose between something as reported by you and something as reported by Tony Jackson, I would take Tony's story every time.

It is suprising to me that with some of the things ou have reported in this forum that you have not been barred from the locker room.

I have bo doubts of your bonifieds,. but I do have a problem with being reminded every two seconds of your inside sources.

Team Clark
04-20-2002, 11:55 PM
geo_j I just don't know what to say to you.... If you don't like what I write quit reading. There's always one in a group I guess. I think we have covered this before. The TRUTH is rarely printed in the paper. And I mean RARELY. If you only knew how this business works. Usually it is an "account" of what happened with many omitted details.

I hardly think I'm unknown. I write four weekly (soon to be 5) columns that are read by more people than those that read the Dayton Daily News and Cincinnati Post COMBINED. (Closing in on on the Enquirer too)

Do you think Marty tells all he knows?? I know you are not naive. Let's strike that from the record.

I have never been and never will be barred from any clubhouse unless I pull a Ruben Rivera. Which is not very likely.

Ummm..did you not see the pictures of my family and I at Griffey's for Thanksgiving? Hmmm. You must have forgotten that. Not to mention I have been friends with the Griffey family since 1989. I have also known the Larkin's since '91.

Keep firing away Geo-J.. It's one thing to disagree with me on baseball issues. I understand and enjoy the banter. Your right to disagree and my right to argue. Quit with the attacks on the credibility.

<small>[ 04-20-2002, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 12:00 AM
BTW Tony is an excellent reporter who writes for a S#@% paper. I'd believe him too. He's one of the few writers that goes out of his way to NOT write what everyone else is writing. His stories have a great deal of insight. However, he has editors too and they chop his pieces up jus tlike the rest.

<small>[ 04-20-2002, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

letsgojunior
04-21-2002, 12:49 AM
Team Clark, can you post the pictures of you at the Griffeys? I wasn't here to see them. Also, why did Larkin and Jr leave the last day of the 2000 season? And where can I find your columns to read? Do you write for a specific paper? And one more question (I swear!) -- Was anyone on the team pissed when Pokey refused to play at the end of last season?

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 01:00 AM
I'll PM the links to you.

westofyou
04-21-2002, 01:04 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hardly think I'm unknown. I write four weekly (soon to be 5) columns that are read by more people than those that read the Dayton Daily News and Cincinnati Post COMBINED. (Closing in on on the Enquirer too) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I'm out of the loop.

Where does one read these "5 columns?"

letsgojunior
04-21-2002, 01:05 AM
Thanks!! BTW, 99.9% of this board thinks that you are totally awesome for coming in here and giving us updates and insight. There are going to be negative people in all walks of life. Ignore them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

letsgojunior
04-21-2002, 01:11 AM
Yeah, WOY, I think I am out of the loop too. Then again, I am perpetually out of the proverbial loop. I would like to read these column though because I love reading baseball columns. I really like Bob Nightengale's columns from USA Today. Good stuff. Peter Gammons' columns are starting to tick me off. It is starting to seem more and more like he was totally drunk when he wrote them <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

BCubb2003
04-21-2002, 01:38 AM
TC, we tangled before and I've regretted it ever since, because sniping at people is not why I come to RedsZone. You and geo are fellow RedsZoners and I'd hate to see you going at it. I hope you'll go easy on the backlash when somebody challenges you, because they don't have a lot to go on. The credibility questions aren't going to go away as long as the little nagging doubts get in the way.

I don't know a lot about what goes on in the Reds club house (that's what makes your stories so tantalizing), but I do know reporters. It's my job to ask them, "How do we know this?" I hope you'll take this in that spirit.

I hope you'll forgive me when I say that someone who spends Thanksgiving at the Griffeys' and doesn't report on it is not a reporter. That's not a bad thing, in fact it's impressive and I bet most people here would like to do something like that. It's not what reporters do, though, and I have a hard time getting a handle on it.

The next thing is that the people here read every word about the Reds that is written anywhere on Earth. If there are columns out there about how McKeon got fired or who likes or doesn't like Boone, the people here would be all over it. That doesn't mean that there aren't columns out there, but it's a nagging doubt.

And if the stories told here aren't making it into the columns, that's cool. But somebody must be saying, "That guy's working harder for RedsZone than he's working for me. What's up with that, giving away all the good stories for free?"

I tried to think of quasi-media jobs like PR, front office, gofer for radio or Web sites, but I'm not going to claim one thing or another. I'm just having a hard time getting a handle on what kind of reporter we're talking about, and I hope you'll understand why I haven't resolved all the little doubts.

Johnny Vander Meer
04-21-2002, 01:44 AM
This post will upset many of you, but I must be out of the loop so to say also. I never heard of TC, let alone read any of his writings, other than on this board.
Don't call me negative, because those of you who know me know I'm not.
I have been thinking about posting for quite a while on the "how do we know this TC is telling the facts, or just shooting the s*** and making us the laughing stock of him and his friends"
Well, after I read GEO'S post, which was a good one I might add, he has every right to question you Team Clark, as I do also. We don't know you, you don't know me, hell I could report that I am a family friend of some player, or any star in any field, how would any one know for sure. I'm not saying you are, but don't we have the right to question?

Now before you tell me that if I don't like your post, don't read them;;;;I know that.

Sorry if I have upset 95% of you on this board in questioning Team Clark, I don't mean to upset anyone.

Larkin Fan
04-21-2002, 02:17 AM
I know that it is human nature to question the veracity of information given via the internet, but I'm here to tell you guys that TeamClark is legit.

I have known TC for a little over six months and have met him in person. I have also spent quite a bit of time talking to him about various things. Everything that he has told you about himself is easily verifiable by anyone that has his real name. He's even provided proof on several occasions so I'm not really sure exactly what the problem is.

I'm not one to put my reputation on the line unless I am sure that someone is legit and I am completely sure that TeamClark is.

<small>[ 04-21-2002, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: Larkin Fan ]</small>

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 02:22 AM
You certainly have some points...not very good ones but they are points nonetheless. This is the internet. I could be Marty Brennaman for all you know. I think I have much better hair than he does, so that is not possible.

Let's go over this one more time. Just for old times sake....

Last year when I came on the scene there were "questions" about my authenticity/credibility. I simply got tired of all the attacks from the likes of Geo and a few others, so I posted my credentials for all to see. Jax Red remembers that! :D (i got yelled at for posting them btw)

I am a FAN first so I posted pics of myself at Jr's and Sr's house taken during Thanksgiving. I thought everyone would like to see what their houses looked like. That went over well. How this is reporting I'll never know.

Astonishingly there were still doubters (this just floors me)...so I took some more pics in the batting tunnels, some with players, on the field, in the dugout before games, in the pressbox, etc... I even had several "zoners" come down for a few games. They received the VIP treatment and loved it.

I even pulled a few strings and had some favors done for GAC. I'm in the process of doing something similar for CQ. So you must forgive ME if I get tired of explaining myself.

I really could care less if you had not heard of me. I run into writers all of the time who have been at it 10+ years who I have never heard of. I do not cover the Reds 100% of the time. I am from Cincinnati and have lived here most of my life. I like it here. The proximity to Cinergy makes my job easier. I do go on the road and visit other teams.

I have always tried to answer your questions to the best of my ability with the knowledge I possess. I have stated many times...if I know I say I know, if I guess I say I am guessing. If you choose not to beleive me or like what I say... that is your choice. I totally respect the fact that you may not like my posts or believe in me. Just like I reserve the right not to like what you write. I read Gammons all the time. Most of the time he is full of s%$! but other times he is right on the money. Same thing with Rob Neyer.

As for working harder here then in my columns. I am a REDS fan. I always will be. This is a REDS forum. What do you want me to do? Write about the Mets? C'mon. I happen to like the people in here. I try to give you a behind the scenes look. What I find so amazing is that I tell you something and you say "oh No, he's full of #$^#...you're not credible" Then 6 months down the road it all comes out and you still try to leave me holding the bag. I remember telling everyone here in September that Pokey was faking an injury. #1 because the players knew and #2 he told me he was packing it in. The response was incredible. I'd say 70% of you thought I was full of it. Well??? Here we are 7 months later.... I just try to tell you what is going on. You only get to read the surface material in the paper. If you are that naive to believe the reports in the papaer are the ABSOLUTE truth or that the details they provide are the whole story then I can't help you. I really do not think I have posted much that has just been totally off the wall. I have NEVER posted anyhting I knew to be untrue. One of my sources telling me Jim Bowden was to be fired two weeks after the season was over was JOHN ALLEN. Obviously he got over ruled somewhere. I should not have let that out. Tony Jackson was sitting right next to me in the press dining area when we heard that. Tony is more seasoned than me and knew the right move. I learned something there. I make mistakes too. There were other sources for that story too, but none bigger than JOHN ALLEN.

I love posting here I really do. I get about 7-10 e-mails a day from "zoners"... I appreciate your support. The friends I have made here I hope I keep for a long time. You are solid people not to mention great fans.

<small>[ 04-21-2002, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 02:23 AM
Thanks LF... You grilled me for a good three weeks before I received your stamp of approval...it still hurts where you stamped me!

Johnny Vander Meer
04-21-2002, 02:26 AM
LarkinFan, if you say it is so, then in my view it is so! I was thinking about PM'ing you to ask.
My apology Team Clark. :o

letsgojunior
04-21-2002, 02:28 AM
WTG TCII! <img border="0" alt="[Beer Me]" title="" src="graemlins/beerme.gif" />

So can someone explain to me who Pokey Reese is to be questioning leadership on the team when he admittedly faked an injury and packed it in? If I were a teammate of his I would have been so pissed.

Anyway TCII, if you haven't sent my PM yet, could you throw in some pictures of the tunnels at Cinergy? I have not been there and would really like to see what it looks like. Thanks - keep up the great work :)

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 02:29 AM
Johnny you have been on the board long enough to know haven't you?? Why the doubts NOW vs. 6 mos ago? Apology accepted but certainly not neccessary.

<small>[ 04-21-2002, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 02:31 AM
LGJ I'll dig them out for you. Boss had said something about restoring the old photo archive. A Majority of those pics are in the archive.

Johnny Vander Meer
04-21-2002, 02:39 AM
TeamClark, somehow I missed all, or most of those pictures and your credentials that you say you posted last fall, sorry. That was back when my brother had passed away and I was not reading the board on a regular basis then.
Again, my apology for my post, maybe we can have a beer sometime and laugh about this, LarkinFan is buying, <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

Larkin Fan
04-21-2002, 02:43 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>Thanks LF... You grilled me for a good three weeks before I received your stamp of approval...it still hurts where you stamped me!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No problem, although I'm still waiting for you to pull a couple of strings and get me that souvenir... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 02:46 AM
What you ask Danielson is no easy task.. LOL! I'll get it for you. Don't worry. I have to be a little more careful this year. Public Relations Bear and Reporter Bear are not cohabitating very well right now!!!

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 02:48 AM
Johnny... Hey it's just baseball. Sorry about your brother. I never had one and always wished I had. I do have a lovely sister and wonderful daughter. All this makeup clouds my feminine side. We can do the beer thing but if LF is buying it will be more like Root Beer.

Larkin Fan
04-21-2002, 02:50 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We can do the beer thing but if LF is buying it will be more like Root Beer.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not if we wait five months. LOL

letsgojunior
04-21-2002, 02:52 AM
It would be nice if all of Redszone could get together some day. Unfortunately I think I live too far away. Anyway, I hope to get to Cinergy Field this year for a game. I'd love to get in on the TC-LF-Johnny party, but unfortunately, I would have to have root beer too :) LF and I are still one year from the hard stuff <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

letsgojunior
04-21-2002, 02:53 AM
Damn I have to wait 12 months <img border="0" alt="[Rollin]" title="" src="graemlins/roll.gif" />

BCubb2003
04-21-2002, 02:53 AM
I've got no beef, just questions that haven't been answered. I had the impression you were a reporter. You tell me you're a fan. Fine. (Aren't we all, here.) If you're a fan, I believe you. If you're an insider, that's cool. If you're a reporter, tell me where you write. That'll be the end of it. With me, at least. I'm the last person to like doing this. But I figure you'll be facing this again with somebody else down the line. The one person I know you're not is Rob Butcher. Unless...

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 02:55 AM
I am a reporter... I'm a fan first and always will be. I just made that pretty clear.

westofyou
04-21-2002, 03:02 AM
Still waitin.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess I'm out of the loop.

Where does one read these "5 columns?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

BCubb2003
04-21-2002, 03:02 AM
Then I'll hope you'll chill out on geo, OK? Because doing it this way means presenting your bona fides one-by-one to each individual who asks the question. The problem is not with you or geo, it's that on the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog or Marty Brenneman.

Johnny Vander Meer
04-21-2002, 03:05 AM
Thanks Team Clark, and not to run this post into the ground, but I guess I was lucky, had 7 brothers and one sister, all living (in the Greenville area) still except my two oldest brothers who have passed on.
BTW, I will be in Ohio (Greenville) next weekend, but no Cincinnati trip for me, my best friend ever in Greenville is not expected to live, just any day now, and want to see him.
Now I did not post that for sympathy, please, I guess I just needed to get that off my chest. Some time, this year I wish, to get to a Reds game and meet you and all the Redszoners, boy would that be a blast. The only Zoner I have met is SandyD so far, and tell LarkinFan he will NOT buy me root beer, I demand the real suds!

Thanks TC, and sorry I rambled on so long, thats what that good wine will do to ya.

buckeyenut
04-21-2002, 03:08 AM
It has been posted on this forum several times in the past that TC is associated with <a href="http://www.baseballpressbox.com" target="_blank">http://www.baseballpressbox.com</a>

This is a very good site associated with Tom Hume and Ken Griffey Sr. I also know personally that TC is a MLB insider, not only as a reporter but also in other capacities. Since he hasn't shared them in this thread, I will offer him the privacy to not do the same. But I will back him up.

TC is a good guy, lucky to have a viewpoint many of us can only dream of. He has been nice enough to try and share it with us as Reds Fans. Over the internet, it's normal to be skeptical, but at some point, it has to stop.

Argue the points. Debate what he says all you want. But there is no need for anyone to personally attack or question TC.

BCubb2003
04-21-2002, 03:13 AM
Thanks. That wasn't so hard. Mission accomplished. I hope we won't have to go through it again some time.

westofyou
04-21-2002, 03:16 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It has been posted on this forum several times in the past that TC is associated with
<a href="http://www.baseballpressbox.com" target="_blank">http://www.baseballpressbox.com</a> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's all I was after.

Here's my next question.

Do more people read this than the Post and The Dayton paper?

I know they're not the greatest papers in the world but....

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 03:45 AM
Baseball Pressbox has roughly 280,000 readers. During June/July/Aug that figure goes to 400-425,000. Chris Welsh gives it a plug now and then. As a matter of fact he did it on Wed night.

The other 'Rags' (affectionate term)I write for total nearly 375,000 readers on avg during the season.

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 03:50 AM
BTW there is a short interview with Gerry Hunsicker on Baseball Pressbox right now. Gerry is a good guy. <a href="http://www.baseballpressbox.com" target="_blank">Baseball Pressbox</a>

TeamCasey
04-21-2002, 09:28 AM
Wow, I hate to see this thread involving so many of my absolute favorite Zoners. I have to go with buckeyenut and LF on this one. I think TC has proven his legitimacy in the past. Perhaps it's less a question of his credibility, but his writing style that seems to set some off. Not really sure.

I hope some of you will cut him some slack, or simply not read his posts, if they bother you. I used to be surprised at some of the tidbits that he shared. I was afraid he'd get in trouble. Over time, I've realized that he does have a line that he won't cross, regarding player privacy and such.

I like what he adds to the board.

His "situation" is similar to Mike de la Hoz. Some people think Mike is hilarious and entertaining. Some people see him as annoying, mean-spirited and negative. Because we're not all on the same page, all you can do is try to skip over those posts.

TeamCasey
04-21-2002, 09:37 AM
One thing to point out - check out the number of views on this thread.

KittyDuran
04-21-2002, 10:48 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps it's less a question of his credibility, but his writing style that seems to set some off. Not really sure. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boy, I go to bed and the #$@% hits the fan... :rolleyes: I can sum up this thread in one phrase...

"There is a fine line between envy and jealousy."

REDSFAN4EVER
04-21-2002, 10:53 AM
I for one dont post a lot but do view this board daily! Most of the time anything TEAM CLARK posts is of much interest! Sure beats half these other posts about WHAT IF,S . What if we trade this guy for this guy or this guy . All these so called dream trades seem to be the majority of the posts on this board !! Sure hate to see a guy getting ripped like Team Clark is on this post . Keep up the good work Team Clark!! youre posts are of utmost interest.A little inside info sure beats these post of so called REDS fans who just cant wait to bash the REDS and everything they mean to TRUE REDS FANS!!!!

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 12:18 PM
Greatly appreciated. Thanks for all of the support.

I have said many time that Baseball is all about Disagreement. If it were not we would have one team. How fun would that be to watch intrasquad games 162 times?

gonelong
04-21-2002, 12:19 PM
I think the line between fan and insider blurs sometimes, and thats when the trouble starts. IMO you should be a little more vigilant about when you are being a fan, and when you are dishing out some inside info.

I appreciate the inside scoops.

GL

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 12:26 PM
GL... you are probably right. I'll try that. We need to hook up for a few Dragons games...

geo_j
04-21-2002, 12:29 PM
If you read my port you will find that I do not question your credentials. What bugs me I guess is the feeling that you give that you are on the inside of everything happenning with the reds. I also don't much like it when you imply that you know more but can't say it.

This bugs me about other reporters too. Many ifnot most of your posts are entertaining, and our friend RFS62 has a great deal of respect for you. But I do think a reporter should be clear when he is expressing an opinion and when he is stating facts.

Falls City Beer
04-21-2002, 12:29 PM
As long Team Clark posts what he believes is the truth, to the best of his knowledge, then this discussion of ethics is totally moot. I'm really not sure why this is even an issue: the Reds are public figures. They bought this bill of goods when they became "stars." If you don't wish to believe him, be skeptical. That's YOUR right.

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 12:38 PM
Geo you are probably right. I usually do know a lot more than I can say. I try to tell this board as much as I can within reason. I'll re draw the line to make things more clear in the future.

As for having something to say about everything that goes on.... well maybe I do. Being a HUGE Reds fan on top of everything else and having several players and a few front office personnel as friends I hear a lot more than most writers do. I know where that line is drawn in that respect.

Redny
04-21-2002, 12:38 PM
Why is it one of the few members who can supply us with credible inside information is being attacked in this way. Lay off- TC's information has alway's come off as being accurate, and interesting. I am thankful he continues to post, despite the BS he has to go through every so often.

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 12:40 PM
Geo we should call this one a draw. You can wrestle me some other time. <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

RFS62
04-21-2002, 12:54 PM
Well, I've tried to stay out of this one and watch how it plays out.

Many of my very best friends here at RedsZone have expressed their thoughts on this thread.

It appears to me to be all about perspectives.

BCubb, a great guy and a professional editor, looks at it from his background as a journalist and asked questions in that vein.

Geo J, another great guy and a former AAA player, looks at it as a player who feels that the sanctity of the clubhouse is being compromised.

Those of us who yearn for every single scrap of inside info we can get from the Reds are very happy to hear Team Clark's stories.

I've always looked at RedsZone as a great sports bar. If we're sitting around, watching a game together, tossing back a few cold ones, and we hear Geo J's old stories of the Big Red Machine, or Team Clark's stories of things he's witnessed in his job, well... it doesn't get much better than that for the avid fan.

But the internet blurs the distinction between casual conversation among friends and world wide publication of things that editors keep out of the papers for a variety of reasons.

Team Clark walks a fine line, and he's told me things that were extremely interesting, but would be professional suicide if he posted them here or on his website. It seems to me to be a tough thing to decide where that line should be drawn. Sometimes the things he posts shock us, but are well known throughout the baseball world, and he's surprised when they draw negative backlash from concerned RedsZoners.

We have so many different types of posters here. Historians, former players and coaches, current members of the media, and yes, even a few current and former Reds.

Team Clark is often the cuyanne pepper in our RedsZone gumbo... too spicy for some, just right for others. I really hope that we can work out our differences and get along. I know he can take it as well as he can dish it out... my only fear is that great guys like Geo J and Team Clark and others who have taken exception to TC's posts from time to time can bury the hatchet and contribute on one anothers threads without being uncomfortable. There is such a wealth of knowledge and experience there to draw on, and I for one don't want to miss out on hearing everything I can from both of them.

I do find one thing incredibly ironic about TC and Geo J tangling... I can't think of any two people here who are so exactly alike in their thoughts about Jim Bowden. Heck, I figured they were long lost cousins when I first read TC's analysis of Jimbo.

Viva la difference, and let's go out and cheer for Jose the Magnificant today.

geo_j
04-21-2002, 01:14 PM
Not really trying to argue, but just to temper the prospective a little. Peace!!!!!!! Team Clark. A problem I have when I know a lot about something is that I forget that I don't know everything about it.

Over the years one of the few facts in life I have found is that no matter what there is something about Everything I don;t know and that everyone knows something about anything that I do not know.

This coupled with the fact that on most things I know very little Makes me state that things are either my belief or my opinion.

I find that particularly when My "facts" depends on the actions of others, they often become false beliefs.

Az Red
04-21-2002, 02:38 PM
"A sports bar...with cuyanne pepper" now that's a mental picture that fits perfectly. I envy most of you being able to meet on various occasions. Being out on the left coast doesn't give me the oportunity to know more than your computer names but my opinion is this:

I go nowhere else to find out the latest and greatest Red's news. What I read here I do not take as bible, but I read other sources and compare. Amazingly enough, the 'rumors' and 'insight' here tends to be true. Now I'm not saying that is all due to TC, but the collection of basball minds here tend to be able to predict and surmise the interweavings of MLB. Do I care about credentials? No. But then again, baseball is not and was not my livelyhood.

Geo and TC, you both are well respected here and I enjoy both points of view. I look forward to watching this come to a peaceful conclusion.

<small>[ 04-21-2002, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Az Red ]</small>

PokeyReeseSuPeRsTaR
04-21-2002, 03:54 PM
The premise that Team Clark has more readers than
the Enquirer and the DDN is complete and utter
bullsh*t.

Team Clark
04-21-2002, 05:05 PM
Did I say I had more readers than the Enquirer??? ...No. I said we were closing in on the Enquirer. I named the Post and DDN. See you just do not read.

Here are the links to the DDN and CINCINNATI Post's statistics through Sept, 2001.
<a href="http://uspolitics.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fabcas1.accessabc.com %2Fecirc%2F" target="_blank">POST</a>
<a href="http://uspolitics.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fabcas1.accessabc.com %2Fecirc%2F" target="_blank">DDN</a>

I provided my statistics above. Also, if the link does not automotaically take you to the stats go to Newspapers and type in the city.

<small>[ 04-21-2002, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

NDRed
04-21-2002, 05:38 PM
That was completly uncalled for Pokey, especially when you have no idea what you are talking about. Before you make a fool of yourself you should try to do a little research first.

Keep rolling TC, its appreciated by 99 percent of the people here.

MikeS21
04-21-2002, 05:47 PM
I, for one, enjoy Team Clark's input to the board. As fans, we're not going to agree on 100% of the issues facing the team, but as TC gives his insights, it helps us make better informed opinions.

Now, earlier in the thread TC asked about Bob Boone. My feeling is that Boone has done Ok with the cards he has been dealt. Last year, he had to field a team with injuries to some of his major talents. PLUS, he is at the mercy of an impulsive GM, who, depending on his mood, may demote today's starting pitcher, or tomorrow's staring 2B to the minors. Boone could walk into the clubhouse Tuesday night and find half the team has changed without his knowledge. And like a good company man, Boone will publically excuse JimBo's actions, citing that it was a group decision made by all the "minds" that oversee the team. Boone has done OK.

What troubled me more than anything were the reports coming out of spring training where Jim LeFavre(sp) would work with the hitters and tell them one thing and then Boone and Knight would coach the players to do something else. So I guess what I am wondering is are the coaches working together better, or is LeFarve(sp) being left out of the loop?

PokeyReeseSuPeRsTaR
04-21-2002, 07:09 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did I say I had more readers than the Enquirer??? ... No. I said we were closing in on the Enquirer. I named the Post and DDN. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry. I was laughing so hard that tears were clouding my vision.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See you just do not read. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I guess that makes two things I don't read... the other being your columns since I've never heard of you or your rather obscure website.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here are the links to the DDN and CINCINNATI Post's statistics through Sept, 2001. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So where is the proof that your columns "are read by more people than those that read the Dayton Daily News and Cincinnati Post COMBINED. (Closing in on the Enquirer too)"?

gonelong
04-21-2002, 07:41 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>GL... you are probably right. I'll try that. We need to hook up for a few Dragons games...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">PM'ed you.

GL

TeamCasey
04-21-2002, 07:48 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by PokeyReeseSuPeRsTaR:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did I say I had more readers than the Enquirer??? ... No. I said we were closing in on the Enquirer. I named the Post and DDN. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry. I was laughing so hard that tears were clouding my vision.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See you just do not read. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I guess that makes two things I don't read... the other being your columns since I've never heard of you or your rather obscure website.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here are the links to the DDN and CINCINNATI Post's statistics through Sept, 2001. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So where is the proof that your columns "are read by more people than those that read the Dayton Daily News and Cincinnati Post COMBINED. (Closing in on the Enquirer too)"?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll just quote this whole thing, since I'm hoping it will stop. As far as I'm concerned, this thread was resolved fairly well. I was proud that the participants found some middle ground. I'll simply request that you not egg it on.

Team Clark ..... please don't respond any further. Just know that you have some folks that enjoy your input and some folks that don't. I think the majority do.

Team Tuck
04-22-2002, 01:31 AM
TC - Just wanted to provide my perspective. I think the thing that bothers some is that in defending your argument, you point out that you're an insider, that you were there, that the other poster couldn't possibly be as informed as you are. Here's how I view your inside status. Personally, I don't care about soap opera type info., the off the field junk - who said what about who, how Jimbo reacted in the clubhouse, how the other players reacted to Acevado's demotion, who likes or dislikes who, etc. I know, I know - a lot of fans really get into that kind of stuff. For whatever reason, I don't. I don't even respect most player's opinions - some aren't all that bright, and many of them are blinded by their egos. I also don't have that much respect for journalists - do they know more about baseball than I do?? Some do (Chris Welsh), but many don't (Marty/Hal). As good as Marty is as a baseball announcer, his opinions are often-times off base. Hal McCoy - same thing.

I'm a fan of the game - I enjoy talking about the game itself. Evaluating gm decisions, how a gm can get the most bang for his buck, how a manager approached a certain game, lineups, whether or not a certain player is producing, stats, etc. In that respect, you're no more informed or insightful than anybody else. That's what irritates me about the irrelevant question/answer sessions about the soap opera behind the scenes. Not saying it's your fault, but that's how I perceive it. Some on here act as if they worship you because you know the players. Sorry, I don't. I come here to read and talk baseball, not gossip columns. When you provide the inside scoop, some will like it. Some won't. That comes with the territory.

letsgojunior
04-22-2002, 01:44 AM
I don't think anyone on here "worships" Team Clark because he knows the players. I like him because he is nice enough to come on here and give us information about the team that we normally wouldn't have any chance of getting by ourselves. It is great when you can have any question you have about your team answered. Not to mention the fact that he is one of the nicest and most accomodating people on the board.

I have really had enough of this discussion. If you don't like Team Clark or the insight that he provides, THEN DON'T READ WHAT HE HAS TO SAY.

<small>[ 04-21-2002, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: letsgojunior ]</small>

Phhhl
04-22-2002, 01:48 AM
I haven't really picked up on what Team Clark is doing exactly, but I have picked up that he is either working in the organization or working side by side with it.

Team Clark, what exactly are you doing? Thanks for all the info you are able to provide us.

Doc. Scott
04-22-2002, 01:51 AM
Anyone who knows me knows I only associate with STARS. Nobodies aren't invited.

See my Trade Scorecards on Baseball Pressbox? That should tell you something, huh?

Yeah.

Thanks, Team Clark, for bankrolling my vacation home.

Team Tuck
04-22-2002, 01:54 AM
lgj - you're on the biggest worshipers around.

Larkin Fan
04-22-2002, 02:11 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Tuck:
<strong>lgj - you're on the biggest worshipers around.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sava, this statement is getting a bit out of line, don't you think?

And for the record, I don't worship TeamClark (and I don't believe that anyone else around here does either). However, I do consider him a good friend and have a great deal of respect for him. I, as well as many others, appreciate the fact that he is willing to share the information the he does with us.

I suggest that if anyone doesn't like TeamClark's posts, don't respond to them. I'm getting tired of the TeamClark bashing that's taking place. You don't have to like what he posts, but at least have the decency to show him the same amount of respect that he and everyone else is entitled to.

<small>[ 04-22-2002, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Larkin Fan ]</small>

remdog
04-22-2002, 03:16 AM
First of all, not responding is not always a good choice. If the US had 'not responded' to Hitler we might all be speaking Deutsch. That may seem an absurd example but it was a position taken by most 'isolationists' of that era.

Secondly, Team Clark states that BP has 280,000 readers (expanding to 400-450K in season). Then he gives ABC links for circulation of the various Ohio newspapers. Question(s):
(A) Are the BP readership numbers audited? Actual readership of newspapers is greater than the circulation numbers due to 'pass along' readership.
(B) Is BP readership paid circulation like the ABC figures cited?
(C) The ABC figures don't include (as far as I can tell) hits on their websites. I would guess that including website 'hit's' would greatly expand their 'readership'. That would be significant if BP is a website only.

Just asking.

Rem

Catch22
04-22-2002, 03:19 AM
There is much I want to say, but won't for fear of dragging this thread on longer than it already has.
If anyone had questions about TC's credibility, I hope they were answered.
To those of you who read everything he writes as gospel truth - don't. I'm not trying to say that he makes this stuff up, just that everything he is told may not necessarily be true. Heck, half the time the players aren't told the truth, why would a reporter be any different?
I can understand, and appreciate many of your criticisms and scepticism regarding TC; especially considering the relative annonymity that the internet provides. However, some of the personal swings taken at him in this thread were uncalled for.
I guess this just boils down to if you think his contributions make the RedsZone a better place. I, for one, think they do and will continue to read, albeit with a grain of salt, the things he writes. If you happen to dissagree, just pass over his posts and your problem is solved.

Hoosier Red
04-22-2002, 04:13 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by remdog:
<strong>First of all, not responding is not always a good choice. If the US had 'not responded' to Hitler we might all be speaking Deutsch. That may seem an absurd example but it was a position taken by most 'isolationists' of that era.
Rem</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well there's a fair comparison if I ever saw one.

One thing that has irked me the most is people complaining about Team CLark "always talking about his inside sources"
I honestly don't see it. Sometimes he just posts his opinion as a fan, and other times, when he has news to share, he tells us where he got it from, that's called being a reporter.

If I was to post that the Reds announced Ken Griffey Jr. is out for the season, wouldn't you want to know where I got the information? without that, my input is worthless from an information vantage point, it's back to being just my opinion.

creek14
04-22-2002, 09:04 AM
I'm just wondering if this thread will make 3000 views.

Anyway, TCII is a good guy. Yes, I have met him.

That's all.

Cooper
04-22-2002, 10:39 AM
Hitler?! Come on. Sarcasm?...who's next, bin Laden?

letsgojunior
04-22-2002, 11:07 AM
Team Tuck, if you want to consider me a "worshipper" for treating a fellow poster with respect and for being grateful when that person answers my questions, that is fine. What is not fine is your continued treatment of Team Clark. Just because you don't like what he posts doesn't mean that you can't respect his right to post. There are plenty of people here whose opinions I disagree with, but I don't sit here and question that person's credibility and attack their thoughts. Why shouldn't we have the right to know whether players are getting along or if Bowden is stirring up trouble? Team Clark almost always tells us who he is getting his info from. If the entire team hates one another, don't you think it is going to affect the product on the field (which you deem as very important)? Not to mention that Team Clark has withheld a number of things simply because it would not be classy to say. That doesn't sound like a gossip columnist from the National Enquirer to me.

What bothers me even more about your continuous attacks on Team Clark is that you fail to recognize the fact that if you don't like what that person is saying, there is no reason to read it. There are certain people that I ignore when I don't like what they are saying and why they are saying it. So the bottom line is, if you don't like it, don't read it. Don't b&tch about it and spoil it for the rest of us who enjoy it.

Team Clark
04-22-2002, 12:44 PM
Wow, I thought this thread had died.

Rem, I do not know the complete answer to your question. All I know is the numbers I see in our statistics compared to someone else's numbers. Whether they are audited or not I do not know. We have a subscription to Nielsen Net ratings. They have proven to be highly accurate. If I can find a way to get you more valid info I will.

Team Tuck. You are classic. You are a good lithmus test. I hold nothing against you.

LGJ... Bow your head worshiper! <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

LF... you too! <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" /> :D

Creek... I thought we were going to keep our private meetings a secret. We're exposed!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

BTW Geo and I are friends, we just like to dig one another. We usually agree down the line.

Catch22 really put ths thread into perspective. Thanks gain for all of your support.

Hoosier you have always been supportive and continure to be an excellent poster. Thanks again.

bucksfan
04-22-2002, 01:32 PM
Since this has evolved into a "Who's Who" of redszone posters, I thought I'd contribute! :cool:

I was initially of the natural inclination to take Team Clark's posts with as much of a grain of salt as everyone else's. It was only natural IMO given the anonymity of the 'net. He has taken the steps to establish his credibility for many here, and though I have not met him I believe him to be who and what he says.

I appreciate his posts, and, as I always do unless I absolutely know for sure, take anything I read only for what it's worth. That's not a slam on TC2, just how I view anything written by someone I don't know extremely well.

The questions you get are understandable, Team Clark, but I think once most people understand your position they will leave well enough alone. Just keep on doing your job, stick to the lines you've drawn for yourself, and have fun with your job. If you're ever in Toledo, let me know and we'll catch a Mud Hens game (if the Tigers don't steal all their players 1st! <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" /> )

Team Clark
04-22-2002, 02:09 PM
Thanks Bucksfan... I almost made a trip there last year. Maybe this year is the year I get to see the Mud Hens play.

RedHotNumber17
04-22-2002, 08:30 PM
I think it's great that Team Clark posts on this board...his posts are always insightful, and many times, informative and even humorous :) I, for one, am happy he's here with us all.

When my friend Cindy and I worked at BOB a couple seasons back, we would always hear the good inside stuff on the DBacks...Cindy ran the press and media elevator and the opposing players would ride it too. Every night after games, on our way home, she would always tell me the juicy news she'd heard from the press guys LOL It was interesting to hear some of the things she heard LOL We'd hear stuff about the other teams too, such as when Todd Stottlemyre's ex-wife (they were still married at the time; this was before Stotty became a DBack) got lost in the ballpark and Todd left, back to St. Louis without her LOL But then again, for the past couple seasons, she told me that Larry Walker wants to leave Colorado and has the Diamondbacks listed as his #1 team to play for...it became common knowledge just recently in Colorado about him wanting to leave...stuff the fans never hear unless it suddenly becomes revealed through the press and media people...

I see NOTHING at all wrong with Team Clark giving us the inside scoop, or even just his personal opinions on any topic about the Reds, or baseball in general. Keep up the great work, Team Clark :) You are a valuable member of our board and our friendships here:)

Team Clark
04-22-2002, 11:13 PM
Thanks 17. That is your age too isn't it? I saw your ST pics. You look 17-18. Hope to see you in Az this year.

Deepred05
04-23-2002, 12:51 AM
I for one enjoy TC posts. I can understand his reluctance to reveal his sources too. I recently met a Reds scout, and I was reluctant to discuss things he said, for fear of dropping my new found friend in the grease. Silly I suppose, but the world just isn't that big anymore. I wonder TC, who, if any members of the Reds actually read this site?

Team Tuck
04-23-2002, 01:18 AM
lgj - I have no problem with Team Clark. He has no problem with me. So we see some things differently - that's what a message board is all about. He's like inside scoop; I like baseball. That's why TC is popular with all the women on the board. Women love that gossipy, scoopy type info. Your point about not reading what you don't like is ridiculous. Am I to stop halfway thru a post because I don't like what I'm reading. Of course not. Instead, I hit the add reply button and tell 'em why they're wrong. Also, do players need to get along to be a good team?? Absolutely not. 25 individuals go play hard and produce, and you'll be one hell of a team. I'll take all the Peter Edwards and Johnny Benches I can get.

Is TC single - I think 'ol lgj may have a little crush going here. I can't be certain - I just get that feeling. I mean, we're all for gossip, right?

Team Clark
04-23-2002, 01:30 AM
I don't know why everyone thinks we hate each other. Team Tuck you really put that well. No one has to agree with me or like my material. I get a lot of e-mails where people do not agree. That's all part of baseball.

letsgojunior
04-23-2002, 01:32 AM
Team Clark, did chat stop working for you?

And Team Tuck, how can I have a crush on someone I have never met? Makes me sound a little shallow!

Team Clark
04-23-2002, 01:35 AM
yes. Check your PM's in a minute

Larkin Fan
04-23-2002, 01:37 AM
Chat appears to have stopped working for everyone. Nothing new there. LOL

Team Clark
04-23-2002, 01:38 AM
I think I have a crush on Red Hot Number 17!!! Wooo Hooo!!! C'Mon baby!!!! That goes for TC and TB as well.

letsgojunior
04-23-2002, 01:42 AM
Personally I was quite blown away by the picture of Boss! <img border="0" alt="[Rollin]" title="" src="graemlins/roll.gif" />

TeamCasey
04-23-2002, 08:30 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Tuck:
[QB]That's why TC is popular with all the women on the board. Women love that gossipy, scoopy type info.QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">:mad:

Sava, can I let you in on a little secret? Most women HATE to be told how men view them. No one, but no one likes to be classified into one group.

That being said ..... I know that you're just cracking a joke. I'll let you off the hook. Before I go, will you please tell me, "Do I look fat in this outfit?" <img border="0" alt="[Devil]" title="" src="graemlins/devil.gif" />

creek14
04-23-2002, 08:50 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>I think I have a crush on Red Hot Number 17!!! Wooo Hooo!!! C'Mon baby!!!! That goes for TC and TB as well.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

creek14
04-23-2002, 08:56 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Tuck:
<strong>That's why TC is popular with all the women on the board. Women love that gossipy, scoopy type info.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nice generalization there, sava. And I suppose in your world we don't know anything about the game, right? :rolleyes:

guernsey
04-23-2002, 10:23 AM
"Do I look fat in this outfit?"

Ahem, it's not the outfit that makes you look fat. <img border="0" alt="[Devil]" title="" src="graemlins/devil.gif" /> :D

Team Clark
04-23-2002, 11:37 AM
CREEK!! We've been over this in this very thread! We need to keep it QUIET! I have MORE than a crush on you darling! <img border="0" alt="[Devil]" title="" src="graemlins/devil.gif" />

<small>[ 04-23-2002, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

westofyou
04-23-2002, 12:25 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And I suppose in your world we don't know anything about the game, right? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course.......................... now if that's WHAT I said.

But it's not is it?

Boss-Hog
04-23-2002, 01:10 PM
WoY, don't worry, there are some of us who understand what you said.

Boss

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by westofyou:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And I suppose in your world we don't know anything about the game, right? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course.......................... now if that's WHAT I said.

But it's not is it?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ 04-23-2002, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Boss-Hog ]</small>

37red
04-23-2002, 01:40 PM
We are going for 3000 hits on this thread aren't we? Sometime we need to rent a lodge and fly everyone in. Team Clark can write one on our team spirit and comradery.

REDREAD
04-23-2002, 01:50 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Originally posted by remdog:
First of all, not responding is not always a good choice. If the US had 'not responded' to Hitler we might all be speaking Deutsch. That may seem an absurd example but it was a position taken by most 'isolationists' of that era.
Rem

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks remdog. I think this is perhaps the most absurd analogy I have ever read on the net. I needed the laugh <img border="0" alt="[Rollin]" title="" src="graemlins/roll.gif" />

Yeah, providing unaudited numbers of websites is right up there with the atrocities Hitler commited. Remdog, keep fighting your little war to rid this message board of people you don't like. Good luck. <img border="0" alt="[Rollin]" title="" src="graemlins/roll.gif" />

Chip R
04-23-2002, 01:56 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 37red:
<strong>We are going for 3000 hits on this thread aren't we? Sometime we need to rent a lodge and fly everyone in. Team Clark can write one on our team spirit and comradery.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this thread gets 3000 hits does that mean lgj is a shoo-in for the HOF? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

TeamCasey
04-23-2002, 02:07 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chip R:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 37red:
<strong>We are going for 3000 hits on this thread aren't we? Sometime we need to rent a lodge and fly everyone in. Team Clark can write one on our team spirit and comradery.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this thread gets 3000 hits does that mean lgj is a shoo-in for the HOF? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm nominating it for a Daytime Emmy award! "As the Stomach Turns". It's got it all - drama, comedy, suspense ...... fabulous leads and supporting cast! It brings a tear to my eye, it surely does. <img border="0" alt="[Devil]" title="" src="graemlins/devil.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<small>[ 04-23-2002, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: TeamCasey ]</small>

creek14
04-23-2002, 02:39 PM
Gee Boss and WOY, I don't remember directing that comment to either of you. Team Tuck, Savafan, Shehateme or whomever he is today implied that the women were here for the gossip and that who is I addressed in my post.

letsgojunior
04-23-2002, 02:44 PM
lets just keep the thread going... i am thinking 4000 posts right now. This thread is headed to Cooperstown...

letsgojunior
04-23-2002, 02:45 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this thread gets 3000 hits does that mean lgj is a shoo-in for the HOF?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it gets 4000 hits I think I should have a shot at living legend! <img border="0" alt="[Rollin]" title="" src="graemlins/roll.gif" />

westofyou
04-23-2002, 02:46 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Gee Boss and WOY, I don't remember directing that comment to either of you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess not, but then can you say that you didn't think of last weeks thread when you replyed to him?

letsgojunior
04-23-2002, 02:47 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I have a crush on Red Hot Number 17!!! Wooo Hooo!!! C'Mon baby!!!! That goes for TC and TB as well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How can you not have a crush on your own personal worshipper? :confused:

letsgojunior
04-23-2002, 02:49 PM
We are officially in the 3000 hit club!!! Woo hoo!!!

Look out Pete Rose!

Team Clark
04-23-2002, 02:51 PM
3000 hits 3000 hits 3000 hits...c'mon! We can do it!!

Why are you huys so hard on REM? He's just trying to get us to 3000 hits!! <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

TC... You love me for the gossip?? My heart is broken! You used me for inside information! :mad:

creek14
04-23-2002, 02:53 PM
Well, no West, I didn't - until I hit the add reply button and then I thought, "hmmm another guy is making them implication that women are not here for the baseball, this is getting old". And personally, I think that it is all Bob Boone's fault.

MWM
04-23-2002, 02:54 PM
I don't really have anything to say. I just felt a little left out without having a response on this thread.

westofyou
04-23-2002, 02:56 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "hmmm another guy is making them implication that women are not here for the baseball, this is getting old" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never implied that.

Never said that.

creek14
04-23-2002, 03:03 PM
Whatever.

Perhaps what you meant and what came through (to not only me, two men [gasp] even emailed me asking what was up with your posts) were two different things.

So let's say it was a misunderstanding and try to reestablish world peace.

Of course if you would go to the chalk board and write "creek is all-knowing" 1000 times - well that would help a lot.

TeamCasey
04-23-2002, 03:13 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>TC... You love me for the gossip?? My heart is broken! You used me for inside information! :mad: </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Huh? I must have missed an episode. TC = me?

Boss-Hog
04-23-2002, 03:19 PM
All I'm saying about the matter is that I didn't get the same impression some of you did from WoY's post last week. And no, I'm not just saying that because I happen to be a male.

Boss

Chip R
04-23-2002, 03:21 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by creek14:
[QB]Of course if you would go to the chalk board and write "creek is all-knowing" 1000 times QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" /> My, my, it's getting mighty deep in here.

creek14
04-23-2002, 03:25 PM
Chip, check your email.

Yeah, there is really no need to post that here, other than to keep the thread going.

remdog
04-23-2002, 03:48 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks remdog. I think this is perhaps the most absurd analogy I have ever read on the net.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're welcome Redread. Sometimes it takes something extream to cut through to the lower levels. I see it was effective.

BTW, the 'ABC' numbers question was seperate. Sorry you didn't get it.

Rem

Boss-Hog
04-23-2002, 03:51 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by creek14:
<strong>Yeah, there is really no need to post that here, other than to keep the thread going.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Assuming this is a response directed at me, I thought that your comments earlier in this thread were directed to WoY about last week's post. Hence, I replied under this assumption.

Boss

gm
04-23-2002, 03:51 PM
what MWM said

VR
04-23-2002, 04:07 PM
I watched the movie Mememto last night, and I thought that confused me.

How many subplots are allowed in one thread? <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

I recommend all offended/offensive parties have it out in chat tonight. <img border="0" alt="[Beer Me]" title="" src="graemlins/beerme.gif" />

Bob Borkowski
04-23-2002, 04:13 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by letsgojunior:
<strong>We are officially in the 3000 hit club!!! Woo hoo!!!

Look out Pete Rose!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heck, I think we can do it! :cool:

TeamCasey
04-23-2002, 04:26 PM
We interrupt today's program with a word from our sponsors:

<img src="https://www.aflac.com/images/content_about_us/comm_latest.jpg" alt="" />

AFLAC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GoReds
04-23-2002, 04:29 PM
Okay, if the thread closes now, how many Redzoners will be LOB???

TeamCasey
04-23-2002, 04:33 PM
What was the defining moment when this thread actually jumped the shark?

mckenzie
04-23-2002, 05:03 PM
so, how about a quick recap of what's been going on here?

it starts with lgj wanting a little info from tc2. no big deal really...

then we go to worshipping and a male who spreads gossip. so that's what the women want...god, being a woman, i never knew that...oh, but that's not what they said or meant or even implied! :D
then we have someone comparing hitler and this thread, and women want the scoop, not baseball. this has really become quite amusing! i have to keep checking in every chance i get!
i will stay tuned!

<img border="0" alt="[Beer Me]" title="" src="graemlins/beerme.gif" />

(oh and by the way, i enjoy knowing a little more about the guys than their batting averages, it makes them more personable...)
but i guess that's just because i'm a woman...
hahahahaha. so thanks tc2 for all the updates and info!

Chip R
04-23-2002, 05:56 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by creek14:
<strong>Chip, check your email.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right back atcha.

If this thread reaches 4192, we need a link to an audio file with Marty announcing, "Hit number 4192!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

letsgojunior
04-23-2002, 07:17 PM
VR, if you think Memento is confusing, try Mulholland Drive. That movie was the weirdest thing I have ever seen.

Countdown to 4192... lets keep it going!!!

letsgojunior
04-23-2002, 07:18 PM
We need a real spicy topic to keep this thread lively!! Hal McCoy anyone? How about Jim Bowden? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

letsgojunior
04-23-2002, 07:19 PM
How about a WWF-style steel cage match between Hal and Jim?? Any bets on who would win??

Team Clark
04-23-2002, 07:29 PM
How about Scott Sullivan almost going to the Braves??? Whew! Could you imagine the Braves bullpen with Sully in it. He pitches the 6th and possbily the 7th then hands it over. WOW!!

Oh by the way my source was indeed Scott Sullivan. This was also confirmed by Tim Naehring. Sullivan was nearly dealt in a package deal that would have included Sean Casey and a player to be named. Sully did not know who the Reds were getting in return but Tim remembers the Reds would have received Kevin Millwood, Wes Helms and a Minor League pitcher.

I do not know nor does Tim know why the deal was not consumated.

<small>[ 04-23-2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

Team Clark
04-23-2002, 07:31 PM
This proposed deal had something to do with Sullivan's option not being picked up. Sullivan says the Braves were willing to tender a 4 year offer.

letsgojunior
04-23-2002, 07:33 PM
Team Clark - You have officially done it. You have provided the goods for this thread to sail WAAAY past 4192!

Anyway, I really would hesitate before trading Casey. That is just me, but I love the guy and love his influence. I don't really think it is a fair deal though -- Sully and Casey are both very solid players, and to get Millwood back, who is still unproven health wise, would be a risk. I don't know. I wish JimBo would pull the trigger on any trade involving an SP.

buckeyenut
04-23-2002, 07:39 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>How about Scott Sullivan almost going to the Braves??? Whew! Could you imagine the Braves bullpen with Sully in it. He pitches the 6th and possbily the 7th then hands it over. WOW!!

Oh by the way my source was indeed Scott Sullivan. This was also confirmed by Tim Naehring. Sullivan was nearly dealt in a package deal that would have included Sean Casey and a player to be named. Sully did not know who the Reds were getting in return but Tim remembers the Reds would have received Kevin Millwood, Wes Helms and a Minor League pitcher.

I do not know nor does Tim know why the deal was not consumated.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are evil, TC. Evil, I tell you.

:D :D :D :D :D

buckeyenut
04-23-2002, 07:41 PM
BTW, how long ago was this deal talked about? I am guessing not within the last week, but then again, what do I know?

gm
04-23-2002, 07:42 PM
"Sullivan was nearly dealt in a package deal that would have included Sean Casey and a player to be named. Sully did not know who the Reds were getting in return but Tim remembers the Reds would have received Kevin Millwood, Wes Helms and a Minor League pitcher"

That must've been one helluva "minor league pitcher" otherwise Sullivan/Casey for Millwood/Helms would've been an absolute steal for the Braves!

To quote 15fan...Kevin Millwood? Blech! (2-2 record, 4.18 ERA, so far in 2002...)

Puffy
04-23-2002, 07:46 PM
One time in band camp Team Clark tried to play the trombone and we put hand cream on the trombone and he dropped it on his foot. It was sooo funny!!

Sorry, I just wanted to attack Team Clark and be one of the crowd - peer pressure rules!!!! :cool:

KittyDuran
04-23-2002, 08:49 PM
Well, you know when a thread has gone too far when you're thinking about going home and almost forget to turn off the highway!!! :)

I went ALL the way back to the original post by lgj and concluded that I personally found one thing disturbing... the fact that the board is putting TCII on the spot with questions. I view any information that TCII gives as icing on the cake and until recently, felt comfortable because he chooses the time and the subject to dispense this information. Seeking him out to ask "insider" questions I would think would jeopardize his status. So far to TCII credit he's been pretty discrete.

Just my take... :)

Team Clark
04-23-2002, 08:54 PM
How did you know I went to band camp? Actually I went to Camp Marydale a few times. I won some kind of award while I was there...Like best camper or something of the sort. Odd thing was I won an award and I remember getting yelled at and/or punished for punching this kid who was trying to shoot us with a b-b rifle. Oh what memories.

The Sullivan trade proposal was in Oct/Nov of last year to the best of Scott's recollection.

Team Clark
04-23-2002, 08:56 PM
Kitty... Classy as always. I wish I had been able to talk to you more during the gathering.

LF was getting all the attention as usual! Mr. Ladies Man. <img border="0" alt="[Devil]" title="" src="graemlins/devil.gif" />

creek14
04-23-2002, 11:26 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Boss-Hog:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by creek14:
<strong>Yeah, there is really no need to post that here, other than to keep the thread going.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Assuming this is a response directed at me, I thought that your comments earlier in this thread were directed to WoY about last week's post. Hence, I replied under this assumption.

Boss</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Once again, it wasn't directed to you.

37red
04-24-2002, 12:35 AM
you folks are killing me. I am just laughing and shaking my head. Whatya think, 5000?

RFS62
04-24-2002, 12:46 AM
Damn, this thread is turning into a Russian novel.

It's already the most viewed thread in RedsZone history, I believe.

It's kind of like channel surfing and coming across Jerry Springer... you just can't stop yourself from watching for a couple of minutes!!!

Oh well, I wonder if the views counter is set for 5 digit numbers?

RedHotNumber17
04-24-2002, 04:03 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>I think I have a crush on Red Hot Number 17!!! Wooo Hooo!!! C'Mon baby!!!! That goes for TC and TB as well.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL TeamClark, you hottie you :D :)

No, I am older than 17 actually, but being told I look younger than my true age is a compliment I will take, thank you very much :)

By the way, TeamClark, if you do get out here to AZ, please let me know. It would be an honor to meet you :) We do have an ex-Reds org player playing here for my Tucson Sidewinders...Micah Franklin, and he's a really cool guy :)

Hey!!! I happen to think TeamClark is a real hot-lookin' guy *blush*

smallbattle
04-24-2002, 04:07 AM
I don't have anything to add. I just wanted to be a part of this thread.

Thanks.

RedHotNumber17
04-24-2002, 04:12 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KittyDuran:
<strong>Well, you know when a thread has gone too far when you're thinking about going home and almost forget to turn off the highway!!! :)

I went ALL the way back to the original post by lgj and concluded that I personally found one thing disturbing... the fact that the board is putting TCII on the spot with questions. I view any information that TCII gives as icing on the cake and until recently, felt comfortable because he chooses the time and the subject to dispense this information. Seeking him out to ask "insider" questions I would think would jeopardize his status. So far to TCII credit he's been pretty discrete.

Just my take... :) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not feel compelled to grill our sweetie TCII about Aaron...besides that, my life does not revolve completely around Aaron Boone, Todd Walker, or Kelly Stinnett, it revolves around baseball itself and being a true fan. It revolves around my going to work 5 days a week at Einsteins, checking out the happenings and posting with my friends here at Redszone, going to watch my beloved Triple-A Tucson Sidewinders (DBacks' AAA guys), working on my many Yahoo groups and sites, and around other things in my life. But...I do happen to enjoy TCII's friendship as well as everyone else's here :D

And...yeah I do think TCII is good looking :) (I am a "free agent" again, by the way...things with me and my Aaron lookalike did not work out...we are at least friends at the present time though so that's good)

I do have to laugh though...especially at the remark of this palce being like The Jerry Springer Show <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

<small>[ 04-24-2002, 02:14 AM: Message edited by: RedHotNumber17 ]</small>

GIK
04-24-2002, 05:14 AM
I'm not sure if I've posted in here or not, but I'll do my share to test the 'hit' counter. <img border="0" alt="[Devil]" title="" src="graemlins/devil.gif" /> This one has definitely evolved into something...maybe we should start a story where one poster writes a sentence or two and the next picks it up, but then we'd have to move it to Non-BB...now I'm just rambling...maybe it's the mudslide I just had (yeah, a 'chick' drink, but it was good). :p

redsfan4445
04-24-2002, 06:54 AM
hey redhot17!

tell Micah Franklin that i realy thought he was going to be called up to the reds if that darn strike would not have happened... in 94..

my wife has a g/f that lives in Arizona.. she is a hottie...

SandyD
04-24-2002, 09:50 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by GIK:
<strong>I'm not sure if I've posted in here or not, but I'll do my share to test the 'hit' counter. <img border="0" alt="[Devil]" title="" src="graemlins/devil.gif" /> This one has definitely evolved into something...maybe we should start a story where one poster writes a sentence or two and the next picks it up, but then we'd have to move it to Non-BB...now I'm just rambling...maybe it's the mudslide I just had (yeah, a 'chick' drink, but it was good). :p </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GIK, could create a World Series ... say our Reds against the dreaded Yankees ... or even the Mariners, if we want to add a little controversy to it ... then we could keep it on the baseball board. Let's see, who would pitch game 1? :D

Just wanted to get in on the fun ...

<small>[ 04-24-2002, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: SandyD ]</small>

Team Clark
04-24-2002, 11:44 AM
4,000 4,000 4,000 C'mon. We're chasing Ty and Pete! I have a better Idea for thread. I'll post it after we reach 4192.

REDREAD
04-24-2002, 12:02 PM
Wow, about that Sully trade.

Actually, as much as I like Sully and Casey, I think the Reds would have to do that trade assuming the minor league pitcher they get back is good and close the majors. Wes Helms stinks.

Millwood is a risk, but the problem is that we need starting pitching badly.. Unfortunately, due to supply and demand, you do have to give up a lot to get it. I don't think the Braves were being unreasonable.

smallbattle
04-24-2002, 12:18 PM
TC2, there you go keeping things from us again. :D

Chip R
04-24-2002, 12:21 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>4,000 4,000 4,000 C'mon. We're chasing Ty and Pete! I have a better Idea for thread. I'll post it after we reach 4192.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The hell with 4192, let's go for 4257. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Team Clark
04-24-2002, 12:38 PM
4257 it is.

Yes...keeping secrets is a good thing. I should have been in the CIA. Wait they are terrible at keeping secrets.

Az Red
04-24-2002, 12:58 PM
What would our bullpen be without Sully? Average!

We don't need Millwood. He's proven no better than what is throwing off the mound for the Reds. It would be hard to find any middle reliever as good as Sullivan in the ENTIRE league. I challenge anyone to come up with one.

Keep on Truckin'

15fan
04-24-2002, 01:00 PM
"I do not know nor does Tim know why the deal was not consumated."

All I care is that it wasn't. That tells me that someone in the decision-making chain of command has a clue.

Repeat after me, class: "Millwood = Blech"

(And waaaaaay overpriced blech at that...)

Az Red
04-24-2002, 01:03 PM
Also, TC, go ahead and chime in about Rolen. Will he be a Red?

PokeyReeseSuPeRsTaR
04-24-2002, 01:32 PM
This thread has more readers than the Delhi Press
and Boone County Recorder combined!

Way to go, RedsZone!

<img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

letsgojunior
04-24-2002, 02:08 PM
lets go thread... first member of the 5000 hit club? If we get there, Team Clark should be a first ballot HOF'er <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

letsgojunior
04-24-2002, 02:10 PM
who would've thunk a thread that started out so innocently (5 q's about the Reds) would go this far??? Must be the Team Clark appeal :D

buckeyenut
04-24-2002, 02:20 PM
Hoping to have this post put us over 4192.

buckeyenut
04-24-2002, 02:22 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>4,000 4,000 4,000 C'mon. We're chasing Ty and Pete! I have a better Idea for thread. I'll post it after we reach 4192.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, TC, time to spill it.

:D

buckeyenut
04-24-2002, 02:33 PM
Ty Cobb and Pete Rose go down both in the same hour. Not bad. <img border="0" alt="[Beer Me]" title="" src="graemlins/beerme.gif" />

Redsbbchick
04-24-2002, 03:47 PM
Ok I was starting to feel left out, so I'm crashing the thread! And GIK do me a favor don't make fun of the "girly" drinks ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

919191
04-24-2002, 06:15 PM
Bringin' this back to the top. Wanna make sure people see this thread- hate for it to slip by unnoticed!

Team Clark
04-24-2002, 10:26 PM
Ok... so what if we all chipped in and did a play by play. We would make it a thread. Hopefully we could get the moderators to make it a "sticky".

Each of us signs up to do a batter in a particular inning. There are a lot of variables but the field is wide open.. Someone could do the lead in and go from there. May sound corny but it would be fun (I hope). We would have to choose an opponent or we could even re-create a game. Just some thoughts. Introduce the lineups, umpires etc... (Barry larkin leads off for the reds inthe bottom of the first. Barry steps in hitting a weary .188. Maybe Barry can turn it around in this at bat. Hampton kicks and deal and a fastball is inthere for strike one. I have a note here from the greatest suck boy in Public Relations land, Rob Butcher, to say hello to Joe Cameron from Sharonville Ohio).... You get my drift. I have been thinking about it most of the day and I think it would be very entertaining. Not to mention we could poke fun at one another and do a little Harry Caray by mentioning Claude and Maude Hill from Binger, OK in the bottom of the 4th. Let me know what you think. If it's dumb then we'l forget it.

<small>[ 04-24-2002, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

GIK
04-24-2002, 10:35 PM
Sounds like a blast to me...someone get it rolling. :D Who should we play? Dodgers, Braves, Cards...?

Team Clark
04-25-2002, 12:13 AM
I think we should get a consensus.

Big Red Machine? 90 Reds? 2002 Reds?

Should we play someone in our division?

I do think we need to have some parameters. The game will have to be played at home. Either Cinergy or Crosley. 9 innings.

Nothing too crazy... i.e. 5 bench clearing brawls and 15 ejections. 7 Home Run in an inning. Steve Parris striking out 20.

I also think we need to have a list of people who will be responsible for specific batter/inning. That way each person knows when to start/stop. This may leave some people out, then again we have no idea how many people are in.

We could possibly get everyone in if we did commercials too.

Let's see what we have as far as a signup list. I'd like to do the first batter in the bottom of the 7th. Right now we need the intro, which will be long, and we need someone to do the top of the first. The problem here is this will have to be progressive We do not know how many hits/errors or runs so we have to go with the flow. Any ideas on structuring this a bit?

letsgojunior
04-25-2002, 12:18 AM
TCII are you on IM right now? I can't get into chat:-( Apparently no discussion on underwear for me tonight!

Doc. Scott
04-25-2002, 12:18 AM
Steve Parris striking out 20... so we'll be covering, like, 8 games, huh?

WebScorpion
04-25-2002, 03:48 AM
Before you start the backyard radio announcer fantasy ball game, I've got one more insider question for you TeamClark. This question comes to me through a telepathic communique from ChipR: Is it true that you were the original inspiration for the 'bobblehead' doll? <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

Hey, it's all I could come up with on short notice...I had to get in on the most viewed thread in 'Zone history and somebody already took the 'nothing to add' tack.

letsgojunior
04-25-2002, 04:02 AM
still up, reading countless journals and writing an outline... Addicted to cafeine as well, can't even spell cafeine right at this hour. Anyway, I am proud to say we got to 200 posts!

smallbattle
04-25-2002, 12:12 PM
Sorry Scorp.

Team Clark
04-25-2002, 01:25 PM
Yes indeed my big head was used as the model for Bobblehead mania. Chip I will get you.

Scorp, try not to let Chip lead you down the path of Darkness. Come to the good side of the force. Chip I am your father!

RedHotNumber17
04-25-2002, 04:22 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by IBCK40:
<strong>hey redhot17!

tell Micah Franklin that i realy thought he was going to be called up to the reds if that darn strike would not have happened... in 94..

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello IBCK :)

I will see Micah and the boys again next week when they are back from their Colorado Springs Sky Sox/Iowa Cubs roadtrip, and will pass that message on to him for you :) Micah is one of our best outfielders and provides us with a power bat as well. Glad to know that someone here remembers him :)

Talk about that strike...if I recall, it was Montreal who held the best record that season before the strike happened...could this be deja vu?

TCII, what a great idea about this "play-by-play" thread :)

redsfan4445
04-25-2002, 05:30 PM
thanks redhot.. i bet that makes his day.. anyway what you wrote made me think... if the expos are in the hunt late in the season, watch for Selig to call a strike so that he has an excuse to fold them.....

Hope your having a great day

Go REds!!!

Team Clark
04-25-2002, 11:54 PM
I wonder if Bud will order Frank Robinson to stop winning soon... You never know with that slug.

Chip R
04-26-2002, 12:44 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>I wonder if Bud will order Frank Robinson to stop winning soon... You never know with that slug.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

Bud is now renting Major League so he can think of more ways to screw MON. At least a slug has a purpose.

letsgojunior
04-26-2002, 12:48 AM
The Sports Guy suggests that they create a jigsaw puzzle of Naked Bud as something for the Expos to do in the clubhouse this season <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

Team Clark
04-26-2002, 12:57 AM
Oooh I don't know about a Naked anyhting with Bud Selig. I'd throw a game not to see any part of him exposed. Like the pun "EXPOSed"??

redsfan4445
04-26-2002, 01:20 AM
LOL.. thats a good one TC... Maybe they will have a puzzle of a pinup girl instead.. but i would love to see SElig tell FRank to start losing.. can you imagine the uproar in the clubhouse? hmmm and he is sooooo worried about letting Pete back in.. he is the worst Commish in baseball..
anyway.. At least selig keeps this post going...

VR
04-26-2002, 01:46 AM
Haven't had any input on this post for awhile, felt kind of obligated :rolleyes:

Team Clark
04-26-2002, 02:22 AM
5,000 Wow! Whoda thunk it?

letsgojunior
04-26-2002, 02:27 AM
Lets go for 6000!

letsgojunior
04-26-2002, 04:41 PM
How did this thread get to the second page?? Come on people, we have to get to 6000!!!!

Team Clark
04-28-2002, 01:37 AM
Talk about burning bridges! The Reds could have made a deal that would have brought Brett Tomko back over the winter.

San Diego GM Kevin Towers had been brokering a deal in Mid January with Reds GM Jim Bowden in an attempt to land both Juan Encarnacion and Hector Mercado. The Reds had asked for prospect Ben Howard and former Red Brett Tomko in return.

Talks quickly ended when Reds Pitching coach Don Gullett was made aware that his former pupil might return to Cincinnati. Gullett flatly refused to work with Tomko again.

One other Reds source told me the deal was also cut short when the Padres asked for another prized prospect if Howard were to be included in any deal. The prospect was believed to be Ty Howington.

<small>[ 04-27-2002, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: Team Clark ]</small>

letsgojunior
04-28-2002, 01:46 AM
I know Tomko has pitched well, but I am glad that the Reds didn't get him back...

RedHotNumber17
04-28-2002, 02:37 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by IBCK40:
<strong>thanks redhot.. i bet that makes his day.. anyway what you wrote made me think... if the expos are in the hunt late in the season, watch for Selig to call a strike so that he has an excuse to fold them.....

Hope your having a great day

Go REds!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I should be at the Sidewinders game on Monday so I'll try to talk to Micah before the game and pass along your message to him :) Oh, I cannot stand Butt Selig at all...that guy is as ruthless as Mrs. Phelps from the Major League movies LMAO I love the idea of the cardboard Selig cut-out...each game the Expos win, they can rip a section of him up LOL Another idea? They can use his face for a dart board LOL I certainly hope they do NOT go on strike...I don't think I could go through that again...I love baseball way too much to endure that heartbreak again!!!

redsfan4445
04-28-2002, 06:48 AM
Tomko was in his own world when he was here.. the only time he pitched with fire was the game rigth after he was brought back up from AAA. he pitched with determination and wasn't being nick-picky like he always seemed to pitch.. what i always remeber was the interview after that great game .. he said he wasnt pitching any different than before.. I am not a pro scout, but i can tell when a pitcher isnt trying to be dominate and he was different that game...(AKA like Acevedo wasn't against the Astros). I was at that game and he wasnt foolng anyone and just throwing batting practice and trying to pitch around.. whe Rijo gave up that 3rd homer to Berkman, he had a fire in his look.. and was really aggresive after that mistake... So I am also glad Tomko didnt come back....

Redhot.. thanks again and hope it puts a smile on his face.. I bet your sad now that Boone is now going to be off the market....

Anyways i hope you had a great weekend.. I did, I saw Rijo pitch!!!!!!

Puffy
04-28-2002, 05:59 PM
I have nothing to add at this time, but I wanted to move this to the TOP :p

RedHotNumber17
04-28-2002, 08:26 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by IBCK40:
<strong>

Redhot.. thanks again and hope it puts a smile on his face.. I bet your sad now that Boone is now going to be off the market....

Anyways i hope you had a great weekend.. I did, I saw Rijo pitch!!!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey IBCK :)

Sad does not even begin to describe how I feel about the news of Booney being engaged...but alas, there are other men in the sea...That's great that you got to see Rijo pitch...I bet that was awesome :)

I spent some of my weekend watching the Marlins and Diamondbacks play each other...I am a fan of not only the DBacks, but of Brad Penny, Andy Fox, and Ryan Dempster of the Marlins, so that series didn't matter to me as to who won. I spent the rest of my weekend working and turning into a total Starbucks-aholic LOL

TeamCasey
04-28-2002, 08:56 PM
TeamClark!

Are we correct in our assessment of soon-to-be Mrs. Boone?

Team Clark
04-28-2002, 10:49 PM
Yes indeed. I did not ask Aaron about her. (not yet) However, after viewing the pictures of her, posted here, earlier I quickly realized she was the girl I couldn't take my eyes of in the stands. I came down to the stands and sat with Paul Pierson (Reds Scout). We were mesmorized. I still feel I am under a spell. Aaron you dawg! God Luv ya!

Krusty
04-28-2002, 11:38 PM
With Boone engaged to marry her, maybe this will help the attendance problem at the ballpark. Heck, John Allen would have her sitting in prime box seats for an extra drawing attraction if he had too.

letsgojunior
04-28-2002, 11:40 PM
Recall when Heffner brought his gals to the game at Dodger Stadium last year?? I wonder if thats when Booney met her.

Krusty, LOL!

redsfan4445
04-29-2002, 03:52 AM
Well watching Rijo was a super oportunity to be apart of his rturn to the mound here in Cincy.. it gave me thrills just watching how the fans reacted to him.. he loved it and said he wanted to pitch here forever....I cant wait till his next game here... :)

Also Team Clark, if you see my post about Bowden talking to Jeff Shaw's agent again. I posted a opic about that and it was mentioned that in Cleveland, it was asked who it would take to get Bartolo Colon..and it was said Juan Encarnicion and Danny Graves..hmmmmm could his be why Bowden talked to Shaw's agent again???
please provide any details.. you know us redzoners love to know the gossip.. :)

thanks agin TC.. it makes it real interesting reading when you can hear whats going on behind the scenes..
Also TC.. Since Pete Rose can't be here because of Selig, at the last game at Riverfront ( hate the new name), as i am hoping they suprise the fans with the Big Red Machine introduced at each base before the National Anthem and have them wearing the old Reds Jerseys..Ask John Allen if the Reds let Pete Rose Jr wear the uniform with Rose 14 on him and have them introduce like this "Representing Charlie Hustle, his son Pete Rose Jr."... I bet that would rock the house....and that would be a loophole to gte away with it!!! just a thought and see what he says...I am sure Larkin would love it.. :)

Team Clark
04-29-2002, 03:56 AM
I see Mr. Allen frequently. I will ask him. If it has not been presented already the idea is an excellent one.

RedHotNumber17
04-29-2002, 03:57 AM
Damn...I knew I have been in the wrong profession all this time LOL

No, in all seriousness, I couldn't see myself bearing (or is it baring) my all for anyone...even Aaron...besides, I can't even compare nor compete with Laura or anyone of her caliber...

I guess this Starbucks-and-baseball-aholic will just go on living out her life of glory and singledom the best she can...and flirt like hell in the meantime LOL One thing is for sure, no more dating Aaron lookalikes LOL

Hey, I wouldn't mind seeing a few good men bear (bare) their all though... :) any volunteers, guys???

<small>[ 05-02-2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: RedHotNumber17 ]</small>

redsfan4445
04-29-2002, 04:07 AM
Thanks TC.. didnt think anyone else was up ..It is my turn to stay up late and watch my baby boy who is 11 months. he likes to sleep late.... We named him after Nolan Ryan (1st and middle names)... yes he was my 1st fav pitcher next to Jose Rijo..the one guy i always wanted on the big red machine...but anyway I hope John oves the idea and goes for it... :)

Well Redhot...maybe someday you can talk maybe Shilling or Randy Johnson to choose the Reds when they become Free Agents next time..thru your friends on the team..haha.. nice to dream though.. :) and dont worry about Boonie... he will have to keep his wife out of the clubhouse to keep the other players wives happy..lol

RedHotNumber17
04-29-2002, 04:35 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by IBCK40:
<strong>

Well Redhot...maybe someday you can talk maybe Shilling or Randy Johnson to choose the Reds when they become Free Agents next time..thru your friends on the team..haha.. nice to dream though.. :) and dont worry about Boonie... he will have to keep his wife out of the clubhouse to keep the other players wives happy..lol</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could you just imagine...RJ or Schill in Reds unis??? :) That wouldn't be so bad...*crazy grin on my face*

Yes, I do have some good friends on the team...any of you hear about a young man by the name of Junior Spivey??? He is one of our greatest assets here in the desert...and a good friend of mine. He can play just about any position imaginable in the infield...and, has also been trained for the outfield too, believe it or not...I must confess something funny though...my friend and I accidentally witnessed the "bare" Junior one night last season before he made his trek up the I-10 Express to the BOB LOL While waiting for our friends Jason Conti and Nick Bierbrodt to come out after the game, we were outside the back of the locker room/clubhouse and saw Junior streaking inside LMAO...talk about something bare-able LOL Let's just say I'll never think of Junior quite the same way again :D

I know a good way to put Laura in her place if she gets out of line...I'll send the most evil baseball wife I know to take care of her...Michelle Counsell (wife of Craig) LOL she is one vicious lady and a force NOT to be reckoned with LOL

<small>[ 04-29-2002, 02:37 AM: Message edited by: RedHotNumber17 ]</small>

redsfan4445
04-29-2002, 04:42 AM
LOL.. that was funny RedHot... crazy stories you dont hear about everyday....Ask your friends on that team how they think about the Reds this year?? The team is awesome, like Dimitri and Poky lit a fire under the team and its getting excting indeed... :)

I cant wait till JR is back.. he must be antsy to get back to enjoy the fun.....

RedHotNumber17
04-29-2002, 04:51 AM
Since I live 100 miles away, I don't always get to see the World Series Champs as much as I would like to, but I do see our Sidewinders (our AAA boys). I know the Dbacks are always watching to see who is doing what in the majors, so I can assure you they are following the progress of the Reds like they are of the other teams in the NL. I know Mike Morgan always had fond things to say of his days with the Reds. Mike speaks highly about each team he has played for in his 22 years in pro baseball. I have never heard him utter anything bad about any team or player. I also know Greg Swindell has said positive things about the Reds and his other teams too.

The only negative remarks I have heard the D'Backs say was when, in 2000, when Griffey Junior had the argument with his dad when they took Ken Junior out of the game after hurting his knee at BOB. I will never forget that, because of what ensued in the dugout following being taken out of the game. He punched a hole in the visiting dugout wall and received the property damage bill to fix it LOL

To quote Jay Bell at the World Series victory rally at BOB: "I ain't afraid of no ghost" LOL

redsfan4445
04-29-2002, 08:12 PM
5500!!!!!!!!! well on our way to 6000!!

Hey TC. did you ever think one post would be so popular??

Any Reds news for today?

Team Clark
04-30-2002, 02:03 AM
Any future attempts to Hijack this thread will be met with STERN opposition. (whatever) 6000!

Team Clark
04-30-2002, 02:05 AM
No I didn't think this post would go ballistic. I can't take any credit. This post belongs to LGJ! I am just a pawn in her thread.

jtc24
05-02-2002, 10:52 AM
This thread had become a part of my daily Web experience! Is it just going to fade away now? Say it ain't so... :confused:

Team Clark
05-02-2002, 12:05 PM
We need another feud to fuel this... Ummmm Let's see... Who can I pick a fight with?

I got it! Team Casey and Team Boone cannot COOK! Larkin Fan plays with dolls!! There that ought to do it. :D

TeamCasey
05-02-2002, 12:09 PM
Hey! I'm in enough trouble this week. Even my best buds are ticked off at me.....LOL.

buckeyenut
05-02-2002, 12:41 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TeamCasey:
<strong>Hey! I'm in enough trouble this week. Even my best buds are ticked off at me.....LOL.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Team Casey, hate to be picky about your signature, but "I before E except after C"

Anything to keep the thread alive. :)

Az Red
05-02-2002, 12:54 PM
You want to keep this thread going, Team Clark?

Give us the juicy drippings about Bartolo Colon and Jeff Shaw.

How does this change/effect the picture on Scott Rolen?

What REALLY happened to Marty Brennaman's Elvis collection?

Enquiring minds want to know.

PS: Yes, it's true. You've become the 'Zone's version of the "Insider".

letsgojunior
05-02-2002, 04:53 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This post belongs to LGJ! I am just a pawn in her thread.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">:)

letsgojunior
05-02-2002, 04:54 PM
I heard that Team Clark knits and wears pink underwear on a regular basis <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

RedHotNumber17
05-02-2002, 05:06 PM
LMAO@all of you <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

Spring~Fields
05-02-2002, 07:23 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by letsgojunior:
<strong>I heard that Team Clark knits and wears pink underwear on a regular basis <img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">letsgojunior, good one, cracking me up.

hee, hee hee, that is old news we heard that one clear up here in old sleepy Springfield during spring training? ......Does "Training" have something to do with pink on a regular basis? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Team Clark I am surprised at you gasp!!!!

<img border="0" alt="[Laughing]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

BigRed75
05-02-2002, 07:33 PM
I think it's time to close this topic...we are definitely not talking about baseball. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<small>[ 05-02-2002, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: BigRed75 ]</small>

Team Clark
05-02-2002, 07:36 PM
AZ Red.. Sorry I missed your post. This darn thread is so long it's easy to miss a few psoters.

OK... The Reds feel that Colon has the most upside of any pitcher they can "obtain" immediately. Take that for whatever it's worth. I happen to agree. Sure there are some great and possibly better pitchers out there. How many are available?

The front office has been so impressed with the work Jose Rijo has done with many of the latin players they believe Jose can push Colon to the top. (Even Hector Carraso was decent when Rijo was here)

As for Shaw, I have no comment on that right now. I have been trying to reach Jeff. I want to hear any scoop from him personally. I'll let you know when and if I do.

Rolen is not a good bet. What most fans do not realize is that he is very moody and has had adverse affects in the Philadelphia clubhouse. The Phillie's front office is not to blame for everyhting in this case. Rolen has dug himself a hole and may find himself in a bad spot in the off season. Then again a change of scenery may bring out a new Scott Rolen. Look for the Reds to stay with Aaron Boone at 3B.

I appreciate the comments about being the insider. I'm not the only one on this board who has the scoop. I just appreciate the fact that you read the threads and choose to agree or disagree.

Chip R
05-02-2002, 07:40 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Team Clark:
<strong>(Even Hector Carraso was decent when Rijo was here)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BLASPHEMER!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

gm
05-02-2002, 07:46 PM
"The Reds feel that Colon has the most upside of any pitcher they can "obtain" immediately. Take that for whatever it's worth. I happen to agree. Sure there are some great and possibly better pitchers out there. How many are available?"

Any inside dope on the status of Bartolo's elbow/shoulder? Whenever such a stud "becomes available" it should raise a red flag...maybe C-town knows something about Colon that Cincy should also be aware of, pre-commitment

So...there's a reason Rolen is called "Snotty" eh? FWIW, I've heard Mike Schmidt could be hard to live with, too. Could be those Philly environs. Sounds like you want to keep Aaron around...could Laura have anything to do with it?

Chip R
05-02-2002, 07:54 PM
I agree, gm. We might have to have Doc Hollywood do a once over on Colon's arm. Sort of a Colonoscopy. :o

Team Clark
05-02-2002, 08:00 PM
A Colonoscopy on all potential 5 toolers and pitchers is a must.

I agree that there are questions about Colon's health. I have heard very little about his elbow or shoulder from the Indians.

I think you are right...Laura certainly does make Aaron Boone a favorite of mine. Now if Boonie could just hit 30-40 Homers I'd be happy to babysit his wife while he works.

Team Clark
05-02-2002, 09:03 PM
The Reds would not be pursuing Shaw if there wasn't something else in the works.