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GriffeyFan
06-04-2002, 02:14 PM
Figure this would be the easiest way to keep things in one place. 30 minutes till draft starts!!!

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 02:16 PM
Follow along here at MLB.com on the internet and live on MLB radio.

<a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/nasapp/mlb/mlb/draftday/draft_2002/mlb_draft_index.jsp" target="_blank">http://mlb.mlb.com/nasapp/mlb/mlb/draftday/draft_2002/mlb_draft_index.jsp</a>

MLB radio reporting Upton for sure to Drays.

And Kazmir to the Reds, as the "most polished pitcher available." Did throw in Gruler too, but were leaning towards Kazmir due to the Bowden factor.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: KYRedsFan ]</small>

guernsey
06-04-2002, 02:47 PM
Bullington to go to Pirates #1, per MLB.com.

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 02:47 PM
And they're saying Gruler to the Brewers

Riverfront
06-04-2002, 02:47 PM
No surprise for the Pirates. They took the Bull.

Red Leader
06-04-2002, 02:50 PM
Can you provide the link to the page that shows pick by pick, can't find it from the draft link at MLB.com

guernsey
06-04-2002, 02:52 PM
Reds select GRuler.

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 02:52 PM
Drays take Upton

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 02:53 PM
Reds take Gruler, I repeat Gruler

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 02:53 PM
Kazmir falling

Red Leader
06-04-2002, 02:53 PM
Reds on the clock.....

guernsey
06-04-2002, 02:54 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KYRedsFan:
<strong>Kazmir falling</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Must be that ML contract demand.

MikeS21
06-04-2002, 02:55 PM
Gruler is a good pick. I think he's a little better than Kazmir. May be easier to sign, too.

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 02:55 PM
They're flying on these picks!

I haven't found a text update of picks yet.

There goes Kazmir to the Mets

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: KYRedsFan ]</small>

guernsey
06-04-2002, 02:56 PM
Mets get Kazmir.

princeton
06-04-2002, 02:56 PM
ugh

not even a lefty

guernsey
06-04-2002, 02:58 PM
Brownlie to the Cubs.

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 02:59 PM
Oakland stocking up

Ten more til the Reds 40th pick

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: KYRedsFan ]</small>

Clemson
06-04-2002, 03:00 PM
my connection blipped out, did anyone take brownlie yet?

redssouth
06-04-2002, 03:00 PM
Chris Gruler, RHP, Liberty HS, Brentwood, Ala. (Could go anywhere from 3rd to 20th): "We love him. Throws 95, with a plus curve. Competes. Good delivery. Chance to be a No. 1 starter. Nasty stuff, with great poise. . . . Could be a Schilling."

Just a little blurb off of espn on Gruler.

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 03:01 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Clemson:
<strong>my connection blipped out, did anyone take brownlie yet?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cubs

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 03:02 PM
16 high schoolers, 14 college players taken in 1st round.

MLB radio saying the Reds threw a wrench with the suprise at 3rd pick, and are shocked that Kazmir fell that far, but was due to his price demands. NO suprise he went to New York then.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: KYRedsFan ]</small>

JaxRed
06-04-2002, 03:03 PM
Anybody big still left?

JaxRed
06-04-2002, 03:06 PM
MLB Radio says Kazmir's money demands scared teams off which is why he fell to 15.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 03:07 PM
anyone find a site with the complete first round posted anywhere so we can check off some names? how about khalil greene going at 13 though?

Red Leader
06-04-2002, 03:07 PM
I can't believe that Kazmir fell that far, well below his teammate Everts.

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 03:08 PM
Bowden says they took the best player with the highest ceiling

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 03:10 PM
<a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/draftday/draft_2002/mlb_draft_search.jsp?last_name_alpha=&school_name_alpha=&location=&team_by_team=&round_by_round=1" target="_blank">http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/draftday/draft_2002/mlb_draft_search.jsp?last_name_alpha=&school_name_alpha=&location=&team_by_team=&round_by_round=1</a>

Here is a draft list

GriffeyFan
06-04-2002, 03:10 PM
Here's one from Baseball America:
<a href="http://www.baseballamerica.com:81/today/draft/top100picks02.html" target="_blank">http://www.baseballamerica.com:81/today/draft/top100picks02.html</a>

They only have the first pick filled in though.

ochre
06-04-2002, 03:10 PM
Man I have not followed the players in this draft too closely, but this jumped out at me looking at the first round, the guy the Brewers took is 5'11" and 286#...
Big Boy.

JaxRed
06-04-2002, 03:11 PM
Cecil Fielder's kid. He'll put on some pounds. :p

Red Leader
06-04-2002, 03:11 PM
The A's have taken
Nick Swisher, 1B OSU #16
Joe Blanton RHP UK #24
John McCurdy SS U of Maryland #26
Benjamin Fritz RHP Fresno St.

Surprise, surprise, all college players to cut down on signing bonuses and projected high ceiling players. Good draft so far for them. I like Swisher, and Blanton. Could be good MLB players.

Chris Littmann
06-04-2002, 03:12 PM
The big boy the Brewers took is Cecil Fielders kid, I believe.

guernsey
06-04-2002, 03:12 PM
BA's #11 guy is still there.

11
Jason Neighborgall, rhp
Riverside HS, Durham, N.C.
Sr.
18
R-R
6-5
190

MikeS21
06-04-2002, 03:13 PM
Did Anthony Reyes out of USC get picked yet. The Reds ought to jump on him if he's still there at #40.

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 03:15 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MikeS21:
<strong>Did Anthony Reyes out of USC get picked yet. The Reds ought to jump on him if he's still there at #40.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Still on the board

guernsey
06-04-2002, 03:16 PM
Third baseman Baker is still available, too.

19
Jeff Baker, 3b
Clemson U.
Jr.
20
R-R
6-1
215

guernsey
06-04-2002, 03:18 PM
Ball State's LHP Haggerty is stil there.

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 03:18 PM
Baker is one of the biggest fish left

Ryan the Reds Fan
06-04-2002, 03:19 PM
so what does everyone think, good pick bad pick in Gruler? Any picks that really stick out in the first round as good or bad?

Fielder seems high to me and Kazmir seems like a steal at 15.

guernsey
06-04-2002, 03:31 PM
Reds first round supplemental selection Schramek RHP U of Texas.

cincinnati chili
06-04-2002, 03:33 PM
I wanted to share with you all some old research I did about high school pitchers taken in the first round. Hopefully, this will give everyone a sense of how large the Reds' gamble was.

Between 1990 and 1996, there were 40 high school pitchers taken in the first round. A total of $42.859 million was been spent on bonus money for these guys (of course the going rate is higher).

- 27 out of the 40 (67.5%) pitchers were busts
- 2 more (5%) will probably be busts
- 1 (2.5%) is a horrible major league pitcher
- 4 of them (10%) had a good year or so then flamed out with injuries
- 4 of them (10%) are actually good major league pitchers
- 1, and only 1 (2.5%), Kerry Wood, is an all-star quality player

I've never seen Grueler pitch. But hopefully this will give some perspective on how big a gamble the Reds are taking.

5 *Kurt Miller, rhp, Pirates 232,000 1990 bust
9 *Ron Walden, lhp, Dodgers 215,000 1990 bust
25 *Robbie Beckett, lhp, Padres 175,000 1990 bust
1 *Brien Taylor, lhp, Yankees $1,550,000 1991 bust
15 *Tyrone Hill, lhp, Brewers 280,000 1991 bust
18 *Al Shirley, of, Mets 245,000 1991 bust
22 *Brian Barber, rhp, Cardinals 200,000 1991 bust
17 *Jim Pittsley, rhp, Royals 410,000 1992 bust
26 *Dan Serafini, lhp, Twins 350,000 1992 bust
8 *Kirk Presley, rhp, Mets 900,000 1993 bust
13 *Matt Drews, rhp, Yankees 620,000 1993 bust
15 *Jayson Peterson, rhp, Cubs 712,500 1994 bust
16 *Matt Smith, lhp-1b, Royals 1,000,000 1994 bust
27 *Jacob Shumate, rhp, Braves 500,000 1994 bust
15 *Andy Yount, rhp, Red Sox 986,000 1995 bust
16 *Joe Fontenot, rhp, Giants 900,000 1995 bust
17 *Todd Noel, rhp, Cubs 900,000 1996 bust
21 *Jake Westbrook, rhp, Rockies 750,000 1996 bust
24 *Sam Marsonek, rhp, Rangers 834,000 1996 bust
26 *Josh Garrett, rhp, Red Sox 665,000 1996 bust
7 *Doug Million, lhp, Rockies 905,000 1994 Died tragically (asthma attack), but was awful in the minors and appeared to be a bust waiting to happen.
5 *John Patterson, rhp, Expos/DBacks 6,075,000 1996 helped send the Dbacks toward bankrupcy
7 *Matt White, rhp, Giants/DRays 10,200,000 1996 helped send the Drays toward bankrupcy
12 *Bobby Seay, lhp, White Sox/DRays 3,000,000 1996 helped send the Drays toward bankrupcy
22 *Tony McKnight, rhp, Astros 500,000 1995 net value was a rental of Mike Williams for the 2001 stretch run
14 #*Todd Van Poppel, rhp, Athletics 500,000 1990 of no value to team that drafted him
12 *Todd Ritchie, rhp, Twins 252,500 1990 released by team that drafted him before succeeding later
5 *Kenny Henderson, rhp, Brewers Did not sign 1991 DNS
30 *Nick Bierbrodt, lhp, Diamondbacks 1,046,000 1996 will probably be a bust
22 *Gil Meche, rhp, Mariners 820,000 1996 will be a bust unless he recovers from injury
28 *Jamey Wright, rhp, Rockies 395,000 1993 not a bust, but a bad major league starting pitcher. Doesn't throw strikes.
23 *Jeff D'Amico, rhp, Brewers 525,000 1993 Dominant in 2000; worthless to Brewers in other years due to injury
11 *Adam Eaton, rhp, Phillies 1,100,000 1996 looked very promising in short major league stint. Career may be over due to injury.
10 *Jaret Wright, rhp, Indians 1,150,000 1994 Short, immediate success in majors before flaming out due to injury
25 *Scott Elarton, rhp, Astros 750,000 1994 Short, immediate success in majors before flaming out due to injury
17 *Roy Halladay, rhp, Blue Jays 895,000 1995 excellent pick
15 *Chris Carpenter, rhp, Blue Jays 580,000 1993 middle of rotation starter; has pitched over 200 innings only once
22 *Steve Karsay, rhp, Blue Jays 180,000 1990 success came near his free agent years
11 *Shawn Estes, lhp, Mariners 332,500 1991 valuable major league player in his best years, despite walking many batters
4 *Kerry Wood, rhp, Cubs 1,265,000 1995 worth every penny, even though he was of no use to the Cubs for 1.5 years due to injury

15fan
06-04-2002, 03:34 PM
Reds take a catcher in round 2? :confused:

Meanwhile, Dave Bush goes to the Blue Jays. :mad:

GriffeyFan
06-04-2002, 03:36 PM
Who's this pitcher from Texas? The description from mlb.com is about a hitter, not a pitcher. Any bio info available?

CrackerJack
06-04-2002, 03:39 PM
Gruler has committed to Arizona State. I assume that won't be a problem this year?

GriffeyFan
06-04-2002, 03:44 PM
I couldn't even find that pitcher on Texas' web site.

JaxRed
06-04-2002, 03:45 PM
So far I feel like a kid on Christmas morning that opened up his presents and got clothes.

guernsey
06-04-2002, 03:46 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JaxRed:
<strong>So far I feel like a kid on Christmas morning that opened up his presents and got clothes.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And socks and underwear to boot!

Kearns n' Dunn
06-04-2002, 03:48 PM
Yeah, this is pretty dissapointing. I was hoping the Reds would get Upton, or at least Kazmir, but that didn't happen. Don't get me wrong, I like Gruler, but Kazmir should have been the pick. We have enough money to sign him. The other two picks I have never heard of, and I follow the Draft pretty closely.

Reds army
06-04-2002, 03:48 PM
I like the draft. With Bowden referring to Grueler like much of the baseball people were picking, I am happy.

guernsey
06-04-2002, 03:48 PM
BA lists Schramek as a third baseman. They didn't have a write up on him, to he wasn't part of their top 100.

40.
Reds
Mark Schramek, 3b
U. of Texas San Antonio

Roy Tucker
06-04-2002, 03:49 PM
From BA's Jim Callis on 5/31/02

Q: Jeff from Miami, FL asks:
Okay, two questions. First, who would you say are the safest picks in the draft, meaning those closest to guaranteed to become an every day major leaguer. Second, who are the hitters that are the closest to major-league caliber now (the most polished)?

A: Jim: The two safest picks are probably Russ Adams and Khalil Greene, among position players. I don't know if there's an ultra-polished college hitter. The best, according to a couple of teams, is Texas-San Antonio 3B Mark Schramek. The most polished HS hitters are Jeremy Hermida and Scott Moore.

MasonBuzz3
06-04-2002, 03:49 PM
teamonebaseball.com has Schramek from Texas-San Antonio not Texas.

D-Man
06-04-2002, 03:49 PM
I have the Baseball America draft issue here with me.

BA had Mark Schramek (RHP Texas San Antonio) listed as the 29th best prospect for the entire state of Texas!!! No bio available.

No bio on Kyle Edens either (RHP, Baylor). BA claims he's the 18th best prospect in the state of Texas.

Joe Votto (C, Richview Collegiate Institute) is the 6th best in Canada. No writeup, either.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: D-Man ]</small>

texas dave
06-04-2002, 03:51 PM
i think the pick was mark schramek from the university of texas at san antonio. he is a third baseman and was the southland conference player of the year. i dont know how to put links in these posts. =( wasnt ben broussard the southland conference player of the year as well? i believe so.

<a href="http://www.goutsa.com/player_bios/Baseball/schramek.html" target="_blank">http://www.goutsa.com/player_bios/Baseball/schramek.html</a>

M2
06-04-2002, 03:52 PM
Schramek's a LH hitter who supposedly has a strong arm. BA listed him #20 at his position. The Reds must have seen something they liked in him.

As for Gruler, wild guess here, but I'm thinking the Reds took the path I advised, namely, if you like Gruler and Kazmir equally, then pick the cheaper one.

Red Leader
06-04-2002, 03:52 PM
Schramek:

2001:
Despite ending the season early after tearing the ACL in his left knee during the conference tournament, was drafted in the 45th round of the Major League Baseball Amateur Draft by the Cincinnati Reds...An all-SLC performer, hit .319 with 10 home runs, 13 doubles and three triples...Posted 14 multi-hit games...Enjoyed a six-game hitting streak during the last month of the season, his third six-game streak of the season...Hit first home run of his collegiate career at Louisiana-Lafayette on Feb. 4...Went 4-for-9 with two runs and three RBI in a three game series with Arkansas...Had six games with three or more hits...Went 3-for-4 with one run and two RBI against Louisiana-Monroe on March 10, finishing the game a triple shy of the cycle...Started off the first ever UTSA triple play in that same series, teaming up with Brette Parrish and Nick Prater for the 5-4-3 TP...Went 3-for-5 with one run and an RBI against Texas-Arlington on March 24, then followed it up with a 3-for-5, three-run, four-RBI day in the series' final match on Sunday...Was 2-for-4 with two runs and two RBI at Nebraska on April 18...Along with catcher Matt McIntyre, shattered the school hit by pitch record with 18, McIntyre finished with a record 19...Hit safely in 40 of 56 games during the season...Garnered all-SLC third base honors...Had nine multi-RBI games, including six with three-or-more...Posted a .413 on-base percentage and team-best .576 slugging mark...Picked up a team-high 110 total bases on the year to join his team-topping 39 RBI...Had a 12-game streak without a single strikeout...Posted a .933 fielding mark at third base with just nine errors on the season...Led the team at the plate in the fall with a .471 average, totaling seven doubles and three home runs with 23 RBI...Voted as team captain along with Justin Brandt and Danny Phillips...Pre-season first team all-SLC third baseman.

Obviously, the Reds really liked him to draft him last year and this year. What happened that he didn't sign last year? Sounds like a good hit for average third baseman with possibility for power later on.

Steve4192
06-04-2002, 04:00 PM
Regarding Schramek:

<a href="http://www.goutsa.com/base_gamefiles/teamcume.htm" target="_blank">http://www.goutsa.com/base_gamefiles/teamcume.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.goutsa.com/player_bios/Baseball/schramek.htm" target="_blank">http://www.goutsa.com/player_bios/Baseball/schramek.htm</a>

I think the announcement of Schramek as a pitcher was a mistake. I checked UTSA's stats for the last two years and he has NOT pitched for them.

He was the Southland POY and he seems to have a good idea of what he is doing at the plate. He walks about the same as he K's, he gets HBP at a Corky Miller like rate, and he hit 400 with some pop.

Regarding Edens:

<a href="http://gobaylorbears.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/stats/teamcume.html" target="_blank">http://gobaylorbears.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/stats/teamcume.html</a>

<a href="http://gobaylorbears.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/edens_kyle00.html" target="_blank">http://gobaylorbears.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/edens_kyle00.html</a>

The book on him from BBA is that he is a short righty who throws in the mid 90s. The project him as a reliever. His college stats, in a tough conference, indicate he has solid command to go with his top-notch velocity.

With his stats and the way he lights up the gun, I am guessing he would have been a solid 1st rounder if he were 6'4" instead of 5'11".

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Steve4192 ]</small>

guernsey
06-04-2002, 04:02 PM
44 JOSEPH VOTTO RICHVIEW COLLEGIATE INSTI C L/R 6'3" 205 09/10/1983 HS

COMMENT: Large, strong frame. Body similar to Darren Fletcher. Fluid uppercut swing. Aggressive hitter who attacks ball. Loose arm with good action and proper rotation. Catches ball and blocks plate. Impressive physical specimen. Hard worker.



75 KYLE EDENS BAYLOR U RHP R/R 5'10" 200 01/25/1980 4YR 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Medium height. Strong, thick body, similar to Jeff Brantley. No windup, overhand delivery. Fastball above-average velocity, off loose, quick arm. Slider with three-quarter depth. Also throws sinking change away from lefties. Very aggressive with all pitches. Plus stuff when down in zone. Occasional very good arm strength. Confident competitor.

MikeS21
06-04-2002, 04:03 PM
So correct me if I'm wrong. The Reds had four picks in the top 100, and the only drafted 1 player who was rated as one of the top 100 in the draft? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> :mad: :rolleyes: :o :confused:

guernsey
06-04-2002, 04:04 PM
Reds 5th round pick was a 3rd baseman from University of Miami.

GriffeyFan
06-04-2002, 04:04 PM
Our sandwich pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds wasn't a pitcher as mlb listed him, he's a third baseman.

SCHRAMEK NAMED COLLEGIATE BASEBALL ALL-AMERICAN

SAN ANTONIO – Mark Schramek became UTSA’s first baseball all-American Friday when the senior third baseman was named third team all-American by Collegiate Baseball Magazine.

Schramek, a graduate of San Antonio’s Madison High School, was named the Southland Conference Hitter of the Year and Player of the Year for the 2002 season after leading the league in nearly every offensive category.

Schramek shattered the UTSA record for single season batting average after hitting .416 on the year with 16 doubles, two triples and 11 home runs.

The San Antonio native was voted by UTSA coaches and players as the team’s defensive and offensive player of the year as well as the team’s most valuable player.

D-Man
06-04-2002, 04:04 PM
TeamOne on Joey Vatto:

Votto is a pure hitter with pop from the left side. He figures to be among the best Canadian high school prospects for 2002. Might be a corner infielder on the next level.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 04:06 PM
I wouldnt be surprised is Schramek was indeed drafted as a pitcher. i mean it could simply be a listing mistake, but a lot of teams draft position players and try to mold them.

dont know if this bio on edens has been posted yet but from teamonebaseball

Kyle Edens
San Antonio (TX)
Baylor
height 5-foot-11
weight 190 pounds
class '02
bats right
throws right
Bio Notes and Stats: Edens is generously listed at 5-11, but there is no exagerating his velocity on the mound. He pitches a legit 91-93 and will run some fastballs up in the 94-95 MPH range. His secondary pitches are outstanding (slider in the 88-89 range and a curveball at 85-86).

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Clemson ]</small>

guernsey
06-04-2002, 04:06 PM
From a BA online chat

Q: Steve Phillips from Flushing, New York asks:
Needless to say I am ecstatic to see Scott Kazmir fall to #15. Does this rank as the biggest suprise to you in round 1? Also what do you think I should select in round 4?

A: Jim: Yes and no. Kazmir wouldn't take the money the Reds were offering, and we knew if that happened he could tumble. With the Reds out of the picture, the logical teams to give him the money were Texas at 10 and then the Mets at 15. The Rangers apparently won't go out beyond slot money, bypassing Kazmir, Jeremy Guthrie and Bobby Brownlie for Drew Meyer, so at that point the Mets made a lot of sense. Steve, you're on your own for Round 4.

DBFROMNVA
06-04-2002, 04:07 PM
Looks like the Reds are drafting players they think they can sign cheap. Allen and Linder strike again.

D-Man
06-04-2002, 04:08 PM
There's the possibility that the club might draft Schramek with the intent of converting him to a pitcher.

Ryan the Reds Fan
06-04-2002, 04:09 PM
I wouldn't say Allen and Lindner strike again, I would say they finally realized to draft signable players and get more into the fold. All teams are under a budget, why do you think so many teams passed on Kazmir?

gm
06-04-2002, 04:10 PM
"but I'm thinking the Reds took the path I advised, namely, if you like Gruler and Kazmir equally, then pick the cheaper one."

Nice safe theory...but I didn't notice you choosing CG on the "draft predictions" thread, yesterday

(pat pat pat, "Oi! My rotator cuff smarts!")

Okay princeton, I've already tabbed Schramek as my "first to 'show" from the 2002 draft...who's your sleeper?

"Anyone...anyone...Gruler...Gruler...?"

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: gm ]</small>

Steve4192
06-04-2002, 04:10 PM
Regarding 5th round pick Kevin Howard:

<a href="http://hurricanesports.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/mifl-m-basebl-CumulativeStats.html" target="_blank">http://hurricanesports.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/mifl-m-basebl-CumulativeStats.html</a>

<a href="http://hurricanesports.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/howard_kevin00.html" target="_blank">http://hurricanesports.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/howard_kevin00.html</a>

Another college 3B with solid plate discipline. If nothing else, I am encouraged that the Reds saw through the 'Jeff Baker' power illusion and went after 3B who know how to hit. Baker strikes me as the second coming of Brandon Larson, tons of power with no walks and minimal contact.

Red Leader
06-04-2002, 04:11 PM
From what I read on Schramek it seems like he is a very good hitter and MLB.com said that his arm strength is his #1 tool. Why would they move him to a starter? I would think that if he played at a major division I college he would have been a first rounder easily. As is, he looks like a Mark Texeira from a smaller school. Not sure if the Reds could have gotten him with their next pick instead of as high as they did, but I think he sounds like a good player to have in the organization with the lack of depth at 3B.

JaxRed
06-04-2002, 04:13 PM
Neighborgall not picked yet. Has Harrington gone?

ochre
06-04-2002, 04:13 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DBFROMNVA:
<strong>Looks like the Reds are drafting players they think they can sign cheap. Allen and Linder strike again.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Power toolsy players, looks like they are just following their MO.

malcontent
06-04-2002, 04:15 PM
I can't name names, but I believe the Reds have something of a history of drafting UTSA Roadrunners.

M2
06-04-2002, 04:16 PM
gm, you didn't notice me make that pick because I think it's a dumb pick. Yet the Reds seemed inclined to draft a HS pitcher despite the perils associated with them. However, I did post yesterday that if it came down to Kazmir or Gruler then it's best to take the cheaper one. No point in burning extra cash.

guernsey
06-04-2002, 04:17 PM
Reds 4th round selection

105 CAMILO VAZQUEZ HIALEAH SENIOR HS LHP L/L 6'0" 180 10/03/1983 HS 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Medium build. Athletic frame similar to Billy Wagner. Fastball explodes from hand, bores in. Sharp, sweeping curve action when snaps out in front. Deceptive change when maintains arm action. Poised, good kid with solid makeup. Good athlete, coachable, wants the ball. Also plays outfield and 1B. Came from Cuba two years ago.

gm
06-04-2002, 04:17 PM
"wasnt ben broussard the southland conference player of the year as well?"

You tell me...is McNeese State in Texas? That's where BB came from. Story sounds similar to Schramek...great senior season after being mostly overlooked earlier in his college career

So...do I smell the "Al Goldis" influence on this selection?

LH hitting 3rd baseman? Well-suited for the GAB, and a sign that Aaron Boone's impending arbitration (2003? 2004?) is on the minds of the Red's FO

Red Leader
06-04-2002, 04:17 PM
Any chance of the Reds landing Neighborgall or Harrington? When is their next pick due? I lost connection on MLB.com

M2
06-04-2002, 04:18 PM
Can't believe the Reds let Rich Hill get past pick #75. Nick Bourgeois was there too. And to back up 15, I'll be amazed if Edens turns out to be a better pitcher than David Bush.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 04:19 PM
my pick for first to the majors is kevin howard from miami. the boy can hit. Here is what mlb.com says:

KEVIN HOWARD U MIAMI 3B L/R 6'3" 185 06/25/1981 4YR 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Medium build with long arms and legs. Body type similar to Devon White. Solid, smart hitter. Sprays ball to all fields. Tough out with line-drive, pull power. Solid glove, makes plays. Good instincts with occasional arm strength. Plays hard. Gamer.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Clemson ]</small>

Steve4192
06-04-2002, 04:19 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Clemson:
<strong>I wouldnt be surprised is Schramek was indeed drafted as a pitcher. i mean it could simply be a listing mistake, but a lot of teams draft position players and try to mold them</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have trouble believing that given that he has not pitched AT ALL in college. Are the Reds remembering his arm from 1999 when he came out of HS?

On an unrelated note, I am NOT surprised that the Reds tabbed 2 college seniors in the first 3 rounds. Looks like Bowden and company are making sure that they WILL sign Gruler.

Red Leader
06-04-2002, 04:20 PM
Info on 4th round pick:

CAMILO VAZQUEZ HIALEAH SENIOR HS LHP L/L 6'0" 180 10/03/1983 HS

COMMENT: Medium build. Athletic frame similar to Billy Wagner. Fastball explodes from hand, bores in. Sharp, sweeping curve action when snaps out in front. Deceptive change when maintains arm action. Poised, good kid with solid makeup. Good athlete, coachable, wants the ball. Also plays outfield and 1B. Came from Cuba two years ago.

Chip R
06-04-2002, 04:21 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gm:
<strong>You tell me...is McNeese State in Texas? That's where BB came from. Story sounds similar to Schramek...great senior season after being mostly overlooked earlier in his college career</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">McNeese St. is in Louisiana. But they are members of the Southland conference.

Rasta Red
06-04-2002, 04:23 PM
Besides the obvious need of pitching it looks like the Reds are going after 3rd basemen and left handed sticks. Maybe they got their Scott Kazmir at #105 in Camilo Vazquez!

15fan
06-04-2002, 04:25 PM
Any chance Catch 22 has the scoop on the #2 pick?

I can't believe the Reds passed on Dave Bush.

Twice. :(

Idiots. $^%&@ng idiots. :mad:

Clemson
06-04-2002, 04:26 PM
yeah i mean i dont expect that they drafted schramek as a pitcher, but i'm just saying it wouldnt surprise me if they did. did baker go anywhere yet my connection is awful.

KYRedsFan
06-04-2002, 04:27 PM
<a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/draftday/draft_2002/mlb_draft_search.jsp?last_name_alpha=&school_name_alpha=&location=&team_by_team=cin&round_by_round=" target="_blank">http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/draftday/draft_2002/mlb_draft_search.jsp?last_name_alpha=&school_name_alpha=&location=&team_by_team=cin&round_by_round=</a>

Reds draft summary so far

guernsey
06-04-2002, 04:28 PM
"Any chance of the Reds landing Neighborgall "

He's not going to move off of his asking price, so I'm not sure anyone will draft him. Maybe Texas since he's a Boras client.

Red Leader
06-04-2002, 04:28 PM
I haven't seen Baker, Neighborgall or Harrington picked yet. Grab Neighborgall or Harrington, please... :mad:

MasonBuzz3
06-04-2002, 04:29 PM
Has Jason Neighborgall of NC gone yet? If not he would be a great pick for the Reds this late. He might be a tough sign, but he might be worth it. If I am not mistaken wasnt he one of the pitchers considered to have the highest ceilings?

Red Leader
06-04-2002, 04:30 PM
so couldn't the Reds draft Neighborgall in one of the later rounds and just let him go if they can't agree to terms. Would they get a pick next year for that, or is that only for 1st rounders?

Reds army
06-04-2002, 04:31 PM
That Eden pick at 75 is a headscratcher, other than that, I like the draft.

guernsey
06-04-2002, 04:31 PM
"Would they get a pick next year for that, or is that only for 1st rounders?"

That's only for 1st rounders.

MasonBuzz3
06-04-2002, 04:31 PM
Baker went to Colorado at 111.

Ryan the Reds Fan
06-04-2002, 04:33 PM
Nows the time to take a chance on Neighborgall or Harrington I would say.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: Ryan the Reds Fan ]</small>

MikeS21
06-04-2002, 04:34 PM
Neighborgall would be a wasted pick.

Anthony Reyes out of USC ought to be picked.

Steve4192
06-04-2002, 04:34 PM
Walter Olmstead, 1B, TCU:

<a href="http://gofrogs.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/olmstead_walter00.html" target="_blank">http://gofrogs.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/olmstead_walter00.html</a>

<a href="http://gofrogs.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/tcu-m-basebl-CumulativeStats.html" target="_blank">http://gofrogs.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/tcu-m-basebl-CumulativeStats.html</a>

YUCK!

This guy must have been selected based on his tools, because his stats are BRUTAL. His K:BB ratio was 64:18 this year in 215 AB's, while his 296 BA ranked only fouth on his own team.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 04:35 PM
round 6 i believe

WALTER OLMSTEAD TEXAS CHRISTIAN U 1B S/R 6'6" 230 12/05/1980 4YR 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Very large, well-proportioned body. Leverage in swing with light tower power from both sides. Moves well around bag. Soft hands. Smooth, easy runner, runs well for big man. Gentle giant, nice kid.

round 7 i believe

COREY WACHMAN VALDOSTA ST U RHP R/R 6'0" 183 10/16/1980 4YR 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Same body type as Richie Lewis. Life in body. Very quick arm, easy delivery. Fastball has some hop, arm-side life. Compact, fairly clean delivery for sneaky fastball life. Hard, slurvy slider with some downward tilt, some tight rotation. Hard worker with good arm being brought along as closer.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 04:39 PM
neighborgall just went in the 7th round to boston red sox a la mark texeira (also on his way to georgia tech out of high school)

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Clemson ]</small>

M2
06-04-2002, 04:41 PM
Two third basemen, a $3 million HS pitcher, two relievers, a 1B with no identifiable plate discipline, a catcher that BA didn't even see fit to mention at that position and, count 'em one, southpaw with a live arm.

Either the Reds know something the rest of the world doesn't or they're having a lousy draft. What really irks me is that they've loaded up on corner players and short inning RHPs in the early rounds. Philosophically I thinks that's a dangerous direction in which to head.

osuceltic
06-04-2002, 04:41 PM
Why Gruler over Kazmir? Even beyond the $$$, it's simple. How many slightly built power pitchers make it as starters in the long run? If the two guys are comparable--and by all accounts, Gruler is very, very good and not really a reach--why not go with the guy whose ceiling is Curt Schilling ahead of the guy whose ceiling is Billy Wagner? Both guys are great pitchers, but I think everyone will tell you a starter like Schilling is more valuable than a reliever--even one as good as Wagner. Anyway, all high school pitchers are a crapshoot. You wouldn't catch me picking a high school pitcher in the first round.

As for the other picks... The most interesting trend is the third basemen. It clearly signals that the Reds believe the organization has a dearth of talent at the position. We should have seen it coming. Larson and Leon are considered non-prospects at this point (rightly or wrongly), and Boone's salary is about to reach that point where simple arbitration raises will push him into that Pokey/Dmitri "not worth it" category. They're going to need help there.

I'm also pleased that they seem to be going with good pure hitters and avoiding the "tools" guys. For too long, the Reds drafted athletes and tried to make them baseball players. Now they're drafting baseball players.

Let's face it, none of us knows a darn thing about these kids, but based on what I can see from scouting reports and stats, I'm pleased so far. If drafting was as simple as following the Baseball America list, there wouldn't be a need for scouts.

guernsey
06-04-2002, 04:44 PM
It will be interesting to see if they start one of the third basemen at Stockton. Dayton has Encarnacion, and I can't see sending a college player to the GCL.

M2
06-04-2002, 04:48 PM
O.J. King, rhp
The Southland Conference pitcher of the year, King is one of the better senior signs available. Before back spasms slowed him down in May, he showed a 90-93 mph fastball and an 80-82 mph slider. He also made progress with his changeup and throws all three pitches for strikes. Add a strong 6-foot-3, 210-pound build and a fierce competitive nature, and King has a complete package. After spending two years at Connors State (Okla.) JC, he has improved throughout his time with the Demons.

Let's hope Johnny Almaraz is the guy doing the legwork in the Southland Conference.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: M2 ]</small>

gonelong
06-04-2002, 04:50 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by guernsey:
<strong>It will be interesting to see if they start one of the third basemen at Stockton. Dayton has Encarnacion, and I can't see sending a college player to the GCL.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thats what I was wondering as well. I don't think Encarnacion is ready to move up yet and you don't want to push him out either, he is a budding talent. That means its either Stockton or GCL for one of the 3B picks.

That in itself almost makes you wonder about them experimenting with Schramek into a pitcher.

GL

Clemson
06-04-2002, 04:57 PM
Round 9 brings another catcher

STEVEN BOOTH U SAN FRANCISCO C R/R 6'1" 215 08/14/1979 4YR 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Very muscular body. Solid, strong forearms and wrists, similar to Damian Miller. Good ability behind plate. Blocks pitches and keeps ball in front of him. Enough arm to throw out runners. Making better contact. Tough out with some pop. Good makeup.

cincinnati chili
06-04-2002, 04:57 PM
I know that Baseball America isn't the holy grail or anything. And I understand that signability has to be considered when making these picks. But the Reds have overdrafted BB America's draft projection on all 6 of their first picks:

Gruler - Reds 3rd pick, BBA 7th pick
Schramek - Reds 40th pick, BBA 240th pick
Votto - Reds 44th pick, BBA not in top 250
Edens - Reds 75th pick, BBA 161st pick
Vazquez - Reds 150th pick, BBA 171st pick
Howard - Reds 135th pick, BBA 181st pick

You can't blame this all on the small market phenomenon. Consider the Pirates' selections

Bullington - Pirates 1st pick, BBA 3rd pick
Johnson - Pirates 42nd pick, BBA 41st pick
Lee - Pirates 73rd pick, BBA 77th pick
Starling - Pirates 103rd pick, BBA 51st pick
Hart - Pirates 133rd pick, BBA 90th pick

If these guys pan out for the Reds, they will look like geniuses, because they're certainly bucking the conventional wisdom

M2
06-04-2002, 05:00 PM
BA thinks Howard could be converted to 2B:

3B Kevin Howard, is a solid college player with Team USA experience but scouts have little idea where to play him as a pro. He doesn’t have the power to play third base or the outfield and he doesn’t have the footwork to play shortstop. He might have to try to become an offensive second baseman, and he definitely must get stronger

Junior#30
06-04-2002, 05:04 PM
why so many catchers?i want some pitchers

Benihana
06-04-2002, 05:04 PM
Have Harrington or Reyes gone yet?

If not PLEASE draft them now!!!
Can someone list all of our picks thus far?

D-Man
06-04-2002, 05:06 PM
Walter Olmstead is a huge (6'6", 230), switch hitter (thumbs up!) who strikes out a lot. Probably a ton of power potential. Depending on whether his pitch recognition improves or not, he could end up like Adam Dunn, Richie Sexson, or Samone Peters.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 05:07 PM
Round 10 finishes with a pitcher

FRANKIE KELLER ABILENE CHRISTIAN U LHP L/L 6'2" 220 01/12/1980 4YR

COMMENT: Tall, strong body, like Terry Mulholland. Fastball average velocity off strong, quick arm. Slider offers occasional tight rotation with high, three-quarter depth. Also throws sinking change off fastball speed. Aggressive with fastball. Works quickly. Challenges hitters. Wants chance.

Reds army
06-04-2002, 05:08 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Junior#30:
<strong>why so many catchers?i want some pitchers</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The Reds said as much that they would take some catchers. It is time for the Reds to go back toward a bit more Positional draft this year, last year the cattle call of arms was the name of the game.

Stormy
06-04-2002, 05:09 PM
I haven't been posting because I follow the first 5 rounds of the draft on a conference call. I've written a few capsules of my thoughts on each selection, but I'll save that until the draft is complete and I've had a chance to cross-check some of it (and calibrated it to compare to other team's selections).

My initial impression is that I didn't think anything could exceed my disappointment with the course charted in the 2001 Draft, where I only liked 2 of the first 10 choices the Reds made and disliked the collective rationale behind numerous picks (not to mention our inability to sign such a high proportion of them). Today, however, I've found a Reds draft worse than the 2001 model.

Rarely has having 3 top 50 picks netted a team less prospective talent.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Red Storm ]</small>

guernsey
06-04-2002, 05:10 PM
3 CHRISTOPHER GRULER LIBERTY UNION HS RHP R/R 6'3" 200 09/11/1983 HS 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Good body. Large, raw-boned frame, similar to Jim Palmer. Fastball bores in on righties. Hard, tight-rotating curveball. Splitter with some sink, used as off-speed pitch. Mound presence. Great kid.



40 MARK SCHRAMEK U TEXAS RHP L/R 6'3" 220 06/02/1980 4YR

COMMENT: Large frame. Strong, mature, muscular. Body type similar to Matt Williams. Sound hitting approach. Line-drive stroke with length. Strength and quickness through zone to drive ball. Gap hitter, ball jumps off bat. Arm strength is No. 1 tool. Player can really throw and does it easily. Soft hands.



44 JOSEPH VOTTO RICHVIEW COLLEGIATE INSTI C L/R 6'3" 205 09/10/1983 HS

COMMENT: Large, strong frame. Body similar to Darren Fletcher. Fluid uppercut swing. Aggressive hitter who attacks ball. Loose arm with good action and proper rotation. Catches ball and blocks plate. Impressive physical specimen. Hard worker.



75 KYLE EDENS BAYLOR U RHP R/R 5'10" 200 01/25/1980 4YR 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Medium height. Strong, thick body, similar to Jeff Brantley. No windup, overhand delivery. Fastball above-average velocity, off loose, quick arm. Slider with three-quarter depth. Also throws sinking change away from lefties. Very aggressive with all pitches. Plus stuff when down in zone. Occasional very good arm strength. Confident competitor.



105 CAMILO VAZQUEZ HIALEAH SENIOR HS LHP L/L 6'0" 180 10/03/1983 HS 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Medium build. Athletic frame similar to Billy Wagner. Fastball explodes from hand, bores in. Sharp, sweeping curve action when snaps out in front. Deceptive change when maintains arm action. Poised, good kid with solid makeup. Good athlete, coachable, wants the ball. Also plays outfield and 1B. Came from Cuba two years ago.



135 KEVIN HOWARD U MIAMI 3B L/R 6'3" 185 06/25/1981 4YR 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Medium build with long arms and legs. Body type similar to Devon White. Solid, smart hitter. Sprays ball to all fields. Tough out with line-drive, pull power. Solid glove, makes plays. Good instincts with occasional arm strength. Plays hard. Gamer.



165 WALTER OLMSTEAD TEXAS CHRISTIAN U 1B S/R 6'6" 230 12/05/1980 4YR 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Very large, well-proportioned body. Leverage in swing with light tower power from both sides. Moves well around bag. Soft hands. Smooth, easy runner, runs well for big man. Gentle giant, nice kid.



195 COREY WACHMAN VALDOSTA ST U RHP R/R 6'0" 183 10/16/1980 4YR 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Same body type as Richie Lewis. Life in body. Very quick arm, easy delivery. Fastball has some hop, arm-side life. Compact, fairly clean delivery for sneaky fastball life. Hard, slurvy slider with some downward tilt, some tight rotation. Hard worker with good arm being brought along as closer.



225 OCFUSKE KING NORTHWESTERN ST U RHP R/R 6'3" 215 09/12/1979 4YR

COMMENT:



255 STEVEN BOOTH U SAN FRANCISCO C R/R 6'1" 215 08/14/1979 4YR 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Very muscular body. Solid, strong forearms and wrists, similar to Damian Miller. Good ability behind plate. Blocks pitches and keeps ball in front of him. Enough arm to throw out runners. Making better contact. Tough out with some pop. Good makeup.

M2
06-04-2002, 05:10 PM
Frankie Keller, 6'3", 210, LHP, Abiliene Christian University: 6-3, 3.33, 83.2 IP, 82 H, 30 BB, 89 K

Clemson
06-04-2002, 05:12 PM
Here you go Benihana,

1 Chris Gruler RHP HS
1a Mark Schramek RHP/3B College
2 Joey Votto C HS
3 Kyle Edens RHP College
4 Camilio Vazquez LHP HS
5 Kevin Howard 3B College
6 Walter Olmstead 1B College
7 Corey Walkman RHP College
8 OJ King RHP College
9 Steven Booth C College
10 Frankie Keller LHP College

10 minute break after round 10 for commentary by Baseball America

MasonBuzz3
06-04-2002, 05:14 PM
Has Harrington been drafted yet?

guernsey
06-04-2002, 05:16 PM
285 FRANKIE KELLER ABILENE CHRISTIAN U LHP L/L 6'2" 220 01/12/1980 4YR

COMMENT: Tall, strong body, like Terry Mulholland. Fastball average velocity off strong, quick arm. Slider offers occasional tight rotation with high, three-quarter depth. Also throws sinking change off fastball speed. Aggressive with fastball. Works quickly. Challenges hitters. Wants chance.

D-Man
06-04-2002, 05:16 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by osuceltic:
<strong> How many slightly built power pitchers make it as starters in the long run?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How about--
*Pedro
*Tim Hudson
*Roy Oswalt?

Personally, I would've preferred Kazmir over Gruler, and I believe the Reds would've picked him if he hadn't demanded a major league contract. The Reds 40-man roster is currently a mess with Espinosa and Sardinha taking those last two slots.

indy_dave00
06-04-2002, 05:23 PM
Redstorm I have to agree. With 3 top 50 picks how do you end up with only 1 player Gruler. Both Schramek and Votto rated between 240-250 seem like extreme reaches.

Are these guys related to people who are Reds scouts?? Seems odd we reach that far twice in 1st 3 picks.

Hopefully the Reds scouts know something everyone else doesn't about the pair.

RedDog
06-04-2002, 05:32 PM
Although drafting is not a science, it is obvious that there is some major differences of opinion in the draft room. Some of the baseball people like certain players and some of Jimbos preferred guys like others. I have read some of the articles which have suggested two different camps and thus no one will be happy in this scenario. Since not many of us have scouted any of these guys and the BA and other publications are similar to the Mel Kipers of the world, it is hard to say this draft was as bad or good as any other draft. It has been stated that this entire draft is below average at best thus we will only know how good this draft is in 3-5 years. To have the answer today (RS) is egotistical at best.

JQLorenz
06-04-2002, 05:36 PM
Sorry guys.. this is taking it TOO far.

This isn't the NBA or NFL, this is MLB and historically the draft is about as easy to judge as a corrupt skating controversy at the olympics.

This draft is over 40 rounds long. We really don't have any clue if we're having a good draft or a bad draft, all the scouting reports and such are just third party information

The Reds have done a great job the last 3/4 years drafting, I'll trust them to continue that and not jump to quick analysis about us getting a guy that was rated 259th by some publication that we picked in the 2nd round.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 05:37 PM
Here is some more info from teamonebaseball on a few guys

Camilio Vazquez
Hialeah (FL) HS
Hialeah
position
Pitcher
height 6-foot-0
weight 170 pounds
class '02
bats left
throws left

Bio Notes and Stats: Vasquez has a beautiful lefthanded swing, but might be an even better prospect on the mound.

Kevin Howard
Thousand Oaks (CA)
Miami
position
Third Base
height 6-foot-3
weight 185 pounds
class '02
bats left
throws right

Bio Notes and Stats: During some points of a game, Howard can look like a sure first-rounder, making great reactionary plays or taking a smooth left-handed swing. Then other times Howard looks like he thinks to much and can make a mistake. Physically, he needs to get stronger to succeed at higher levels. He has all of the tools to make himself worthy of a possible first or second round selection.

Walter Olmstead
San Antonio (TX)
Texas Christian
position
First Base
height 6-foot-6
weight 230 pounds
class '02
bats both
throws right

Bio Notes and Stats: Olmsted is a late-blooming prospect. He played just part-time as a freshman in 2000 and hit just .239 in 21 games. In 2001, he broke out with a .308-10-53 season. Olmsted showed enough promise to be considered a follow for the 2002 Draft.

By the way, esposito just went to colorado in round 12

Stormy
06-04-2002, 05:37 PM
Red Dog: I have no answers today. I have great respect for the Reds scouting department (and the ideal Casey McKeon). I (and many others whom I respect) simply had the Reds charted to go in a certain direction with this draft, and they went with the complete opposite end of the spectrum on almost every pick.

I'm not being egotistical, as perhaps I'm 180 degrees off. I'm simply expressing my *preliminary* impressions on the draft. Is that allowed?

gonelong
06-04-2002, 05:38 PM
11th round
MICHAEL BASSETT GEORGE WASHINGTON U OF L/L 6'2" 205 02/10/1980 4YR

12th round
DONALD GEMMELL SAN JOSE ST U RHP R/R 6'1" 215 07/15/1979 4YR

COMMENT: Broad, thick shoulders with compact, solid body, similar to San Francisco's Russ Ortiz. Two-seam fastball creates sink. Four-seamer has some rise to it. Circle change drops and tumbles. Best command with slider and can spot it with quick break.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: gonelong ]</small>

Clemson
06-04-2002, 05:39 PM
I have to agree with Justin Lorenz and say that we should hold the criticism for a few years. I mean after every draft there are questions and lets see even who we get signed before we criticize. By the way, Justin I say my Barnstormers knock off your GB squad!

D-Man
06-04-2002, 05:40 PM
At this point, I too am a bit disappointed by the Reds selections. I would've liked to have seen the Reds take a gamble on a a guy that slipped because of signability issues (e.g., Neighborgall) and more high-ceiling pitchers. Many of these selections look like they are guys that the club thought they could sign.

However--this scouting department deserves the benefit of the doubt. Gary Hughes, et al., have several decades (hundreds of years?) of experience between them, and these past 4 or 5 drafts have been the best that the club has had since the late 1960s.

ochre
06-04-2002, 05:41 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by indy_dave00:
<strong>Redstorm I have to agree. With 3 top 50 picks how do you end up with only 1 player Gruler. Both Schramek and Votto rated between 240-250 seem like extreme reaches.

Are these guys related to people who are Reds scouts?? Seems odd we reach that far twice in 1st 3 picks.

Hopefully the Reds scouts know something everyone else doesn't about the pair.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well they drafted Schramek last year so I would imagine they really wanted him and were afraid to wait. Votto is Canadian I believe. He could have very well come in under some radars.

I think it is a good draft so far. Not every player drafted is going to make it to the Majors. It is just as important, in my opinion, to establish a winning environment at every level of the organization. I can imagine several of these guys jumping right into Dayton to give the Offense a boost.

Steve4192
06-04-2002, 05:43 PM
I've been checking into the Schramek as a pitcher question and I am beginning to think the Reds really do plan on converting him.

1. Schramek's #1 tool is his arm.

2. Schramek DID pitch at UT-SA as a freshman in 1999, posting a 0.77 ERA in limited exposure. Given his arm strength, I have to assume he also pitched in HS.

3. I check the Reds 2001 draft list and, sure enough, Schramek is listed in the 45th as a RHP.

I think this is a REALLY bad idea, but it looks like the Reds are serious about using Mark as a pitcher.

Junior#30
06-04-2002, 05:44 PM
Harrington drafted

Junior#30
06-04-2002, 05:46 PM
Reds draft SS Jose Cruz over RHP Anthony Reyes.Worst draft ever.Shoulda taken Reyes

Clemson
06-04-2002, 05:47 PM
anthony reyes just went to the tigers in the 13th.
why all the criticism already guys? lets give it a few years instead of basing all your opinions on guys you have never seen on the reports of baseball america writers most of whom probably couldnt cut it as scouts or havent seen these players all that much so their write ups might not be all that accurate. besides, its not always the big names that do best. i mena, i could be wrong and every guy we didnt get could be a stud, but i'm willing to trust the organization a little.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Clemson ]</small>

MikeS21
06-04-2002, 05:50 PM
Here's an eye-opener. According to the 2002 BA prospect handbook, the Cubs have the highest ranked farm system talent-wise. Out of their top 30 prospects, four of them were picked after the 10th round when all the "studs" were long gone.

Seattle is ranked #2 and only has three drafted after the 10th round listed, but Seattle has an over-abundance of foriegn players listed.

So we may be upset that a "name" player wasn't taken, but that is no reason to discount the Reds' draft. As others have said, lets give them 3 or 4 years before we pass judgement.

I'm glad the Reds chose Gruler. He fits the power pitcher mold that has been so successful for other teams. I LOVE all the power arms the Redes are picking up.

guernsey
06-04-2002, 05:50 PM
Of 13 picks, 10 are college guys. Seems like a signability draft to me.

M2
06-04-2002, 05:52 PM
Stormy, I'm with you.

Just curious about what direction you'd have liked to see the Reds pursue. I wanted some college LHPs with solid K totals (only one they've got so far is Keller). I also hoped they'd get some compelling player talents like Moye and Espinosa in previous drafts.

What really bothers me is something chili alluded to: The Reds seem to be consistently reaching in this draft. I don't get the Votto pick at all. I simply can't believe he was in danger of getting taken before the Reds' next pick. Edens also leaves me dumbfounded. IMO, if Edens isn't a fast riser then he's a horrible selection. There's no good reason to spend a high pick on a reliever with a long ramp up time.

RedDog
06-04-2002, 05:59 PM
RedStorm

"I (and many others whom I respect) simply had the Reds charted to go in a certain direction with this draft, and they went with the complete opposite end of the spectrum on almost every pick. "

What direction did you want the Reds to go with this draft? With mostly big, strong college pitchers drafted plus a highly regarded HS pitcher as #1, a 3rd baseman with potential, and always a few catchers, it looks as if it fit the model of where we want to be in 3-5 years. Your direction is what?

cincinnati chili
06-04-2002, 06:01 PM
Anybody have info on O.J. King from Northwestern State?

I'd never heard of him, but Baseball America had him in its top 100.

I found his stats here

<a href="http://www.nsudemons.com/baseball/stats02/teamcume.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nsudemons.com/baseball/stats02/teamcume.htm</a>

but no bio

Reds army
06-04-2002, 06:02 PM
In many ways, the choice of Gruler was a sign that something would be admiss to personal "fan" wants. I think everybody thought it would be Kazmir and the Reds would gamble.

RedDog
06-04-2002, 06:06 PM
they gambled last year and lost. With a mixed internal camp between Kazmir and Gruler, they went with the one they thought would be more signable.

15fan
06-04-2002, 06:07 PM
Dog - Can't speak for Stormy, but personally, I'd liked to have seen a little more middle infield talent drafted. And with the high picks, I'd have taken pitchers with either unbelievable ceilings or guys with lots of polish who might be ready to debut in GAB 2 years from now.

I'm with M2 on Votto - I just don't get that pick at all. At the ML level, the Reds have LaRue, Miller, and Stinnett. Sardinha is on the 40 man, and last year they took a catcher out of Georgia Tech with a relatively high pick. Unless Votto is a major talent, I don't see taking him in the 2nd round. A later round, sure. But not the 2nd round.

Of course, I'm hoping that every single draft pick proves me wrong and they all turn out to be bona fide prospects & major leaguers.

icehole3
06-04-2002, 06:10 PM
here's a little info on a couple of our new guys.

Mark Schramek, 3b

<a href="http://www.goutsa.com/baseball.htm" target="_blank">http://www.goutsa.com/baseball.htm</a>

Kyle Edens, rhp

<a href="http://gobaylorbears.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/edens_kyle00.htm" target="_blank">http://gobaylorbears.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/edens_kyle00.htm</a>

couldnt find much on Votto...must be a high schooler

D-Man
06-04-2002, 06:13 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cincinnati chili:
<strong>Anybody have info on O.J. King from Northwestern State?

I'd never heard of him, but Baseball America had him in its top 100.

I found his stats here

<a href="http://www.nsudemons.com/baseball/stats02/teamcume.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nsudemons.com/baseball/stats02/teamcume.htm</a>

but no bio</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Northwestern State University senior OJ King has been voted pitcher of
the year after leading his Demons to a regular-season co-championship.
His 2.11 earned run average is tops in the Southland and he possesses an
8-2 record in 13 starts heading into the postseason. King is one of three
pitchers named first-team All-Conference.

Steve4192
06-04-2002, 06:14 PM
I wouldn't get too hung up on what positions the Reds draftees played in college/HS. In many cases, the Reds have other plans for them anyway.

#1a Schramek - college 3B, looks like the Reds will convert him to RHP

#2 Votto - HS C, many scouts feel he is a better fit at 3B as he matures.

#5 Howard - college 3B, many scouts feel he is a better fit as a 2B in the pros due to a lack of power in his arm and bat.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 06:16 PM
14th Rounder is a Big Boy (and lefty who could intrigue)

PATRICK CURRAN FORT HAYS ST U LHP R/L 6'7" 215 08/27/1979 4YR

15th Round is another tall pitcher

CHRISTOPHER KAMIS ELGIN CC RHP R/R 6'5" 180 01/10/1982 JR

Oh and for all the Anthony Reyes fans (including myself), they just reminded on MLB Radio that his arm troubles and signability caused him to drop.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Clemson ]</small>

RedDog
06-04-2002, 06:16 PM
my take on middle infield is this: the reds have drafted INFs high the previous two years to last year. There are a lot of good glove INFs available (Reese ring a bell) but how many can hit with a wooden bat. These guys are more easily acquirable than good pitching (Alomar). The board complains about drafting college pitchers and when the Reds do, people do not like who they selected. Looking at their physical characteristics and speed, the Reds appear to have drafted strong, solidly-built pitchers who have less likelyhood to breakdown (ala Bankhead, williamson, wagner, etc)

Kc61
06-04-2002, 06:16 PM
Maybe Schramek and Edens indicates the Reds are trying to groom a new closer with a power arm to succeed Graves in a couple of years. Schramek could be an attempt at the next Trevor Hoffman, an infield convert.

cincinnati chili
06-04-2002, 06:17 PM
Clearly, the Reds see something in Votto that other teams didn't.

A possible explanation for drafting Votto so high is if they heard rumors that another club was going to jump on him. But it's not just Votto who appears overdrafted, it's 9 of the first 10 picks.

I agree with Red Storm and M2 that, although the Reds have seen these guys play and we haven't, their picks are puzzling.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: cincinnati chili ]</small>

NC Reds
06-04-2002, 06:17 PM
Why would Schramek be a pitcher? Baseball America said he could be the college player whose hitting converts to wood the best.

Schramek hit .416 this season with power. No way he is a pitcher.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: NC Reds ]</small>

Stormy
06-04-2002, 06:18 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RedDog:
<strong>
What direction did you want the Reds to go with this draft? With mostly big, strong college pitchers drafted plus a highly regarded HS pitcher as #1, a 3rd baseman with potential, and always a few catchers, it looks as if it fit the model of where we want to be in 3-5 years. Your direction is what?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't mean to be offensive, but are we following the same draft? We've drafted mostly big, strong college pitchers in the top 10 picks???

You have to go to the 75th pick of the draft to find our first college pitcher and he is a 5'10" guy whom almost everyone projects as destined for the bullpen. We folow that by going with another HS arm, a 1B and a 3B, before we find our next *college* pitcher at pick 195 and again he is a closer type with a 6'0" frame. Is that your draft full of big, strong college arms? Perhaps you are alluding to our 2nd pick whom we spent on a guy most teams were projecting as a top 200 3B which we jumped to grab at #40, possibly with the intent of using him as a pitcher??

The big, strong college arms you insist this draft is full of do not exist in the early rounds (though they do follow some in the later rounds). There is no question that orthodox/conventional wisdom says that we did some serious reaching with 3 of our first 5 picks. There are no picks designed with an eye towards selecting compelling talents at key positions. Our #1 pick is spent on a HS arm (the lesser of the 2 at that) and we all know the percentage of those which workout successfully. We obviously chose numerous players more in regards to them taking slot money, than on their talent level. And the organizations biggest weakness outside of SP, which is SS/2B went untouched.

I guess that is how we see this differently, without getting into the details of why the Reds bypassed specific players in certain situations in an almost inexplicable manner.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Red Storm ]</small>

cincinnati chili
06-04-2002, 06:23 PM
Jose Cruz actually goes by the name Enqrique Cruz and is Jose Cruz Jr.'s brother... and Jose Cruz Sr's son.

Confusing

Anyway, he is a sophomore. I assume he's only draft eligible because he's about to turn 21.

<a href="http://www.riceowls.com/sports/baseball/bio.asp?PLAYER_ID=286" target="_blank">http://www.riceowls.com/sports/baseball/bio.asp?PLAYER_ID=286</a>

Is he expected to return to school?

Chip R
06-04-2002, 06:27 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Junior#30:
<strong>Worst draft ever.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img src="http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/a6fc598d/bc/My+Photos/__tn_CBGHAPPY.gif?bcI4S_8AfoLUPkly" alt="" />

Clemson
06-04-2002, 06:28 PM
16th round we selected Pitcher Jonathon George from 40 minutes away from me. One of my friends is good friends with him so hopefully I can get a scoop throughout the negotiation process.

JONATHAN GEORGE CAMDEN CATHOLIC HS RHP R/R 6'3" 210 07/06/1984 HS 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Big-boned, similar to Dave Burba. High leg kick. Live, quick arm with consistent near-average velocity. Some late sink to heavy fastball. Late-breaking, 11-to-5 curve could be out pitch. Also throws slider-like cutter. Effective straight change with deception. Strong arm, hard worker with excellent makeup. Bulldog. Father and uncle former pro pitchers. Nephew of Colorado scout Will George.

M2
06-04-2002, 06:32 PM
Hey, looks like the Reds finally grabbed a pitcher with reputation in the 16th round.

Jonathan George a HS pitcher out of Camden, NJ was projected to go in rounds 2-5 by BA.

Jonathan George, rhp
George's rise to the top high school draft prospect in New Jersey says more about the talent in the state than his ability. He has a live arm with velocity up to 92 mph and a breaking ball that has a chance to be an average pitch. He's not overly athletic, and he may struggle keeping weight off his 6-foot-3, 220-pound frame. George, whose uncle Will is an advance scout for the Rockies, has committed to Nebraska but seems to be leaning toward pro ball.

The magazine ranked him the #99 RHP in the draft.

D-Man
06-04-2002, 06:33 PM
Again, it's early--but I would trade our first three picks for the Cubs' first three:

Bobby Brownlie (RHP, Rutgers)--may be the best pick in the draft
Luke Hagerty (6'8" [ !] LHP, Ball State)--tall, power lefty
Chadd Blasko (6'6" RHP, Purdue)--throws 91-93, good command

M2
06-04-2002, 06:35 PM
And for those who want to see what it looks like when a team concentrates on drafting big, college pitchers, I submit the following:

<a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/components/draftday/mlb_draft_search_team_mon_1.html" target="_blank">http://mlb.mlb.com/components/draftday/mlb_draft_search_team_mon_1.html</a>

Looks like Omar Minaya wanted to get some arms.

And I'm with D-Man on this. The Cubs' first three picks look superior to the Reds', at least to me. Man, I was really hoping the Reds would get a chance at Hagerty.

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: M2 ]</small>

15fan
06-04-2002, 06:36 PM
Steve - If you want a rhp with the 1A pick, why not just draft a pitcher? If you want a 3b with the #2 pick, why not just draft a 3b? That early in the draft, there should be enough top talent available that you don't have to make picks based on moving guys all over the diamond. Save those kind of picks for later on.

And after Espinosa / Olmedo, the MI depth in the organization is pretty thin. Dawkins is quickly moving from prospect to suspect status based on his bat (or lack thereof). A high ceiling MI in the early rounds would have given some depth to the farm system. That depth would be a good thing in the event that Espinosa or Olmedo needs to be included in a deadline deal for a ML pitcher down the stretch.

red-in-la
06-04-2002, 06:38 PM
I don't know nothin' 'bout no baseball drafts, but I do know that the "experts" in drafts seldom are correct. Maybe it is because they have to get so much info from miniscule scouting reports....I don't know.

But I will say this....Mel Kiper and those who just about fell off their stools laughing up the Bengals for drafting Levi Jones are going to be eating their words by November.

The Bengals appear to have made a HUGE steal in this kid.

Now, I love to question the manager on the line up each night...but questioning this draft, or any other, seems to me to be a bit of a reach for "us fans."

:D :D :D :D

guernsey
06-04-2002, 06:42 PM
Here's them big college pitchers!

405 PATRICK CURRAN FORT HAYS ST U LHP R/L 6'7" 215 08/27/1979 4YR

COMMENT:



435 CHRISTOPHER KAMIS ELGIN CC RHP R/R 6'5" 180 01/10/1982 JR

COMMENT:



465 JONATHAN GEORGE CAMDEN CATHOLIC HS RHP R/R 6'3" 210 07/06/1984 HS 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Big-boned, similar to Dave Burba. High leg kick. Live, quick arm with consistent near-average velocity. Some late sink to heavy fastball. Late-breaking, 11-to-5 curve could be out pitch. Also throws slider-like cutter. Effective straight change with deception. Strong arm, hard worker with excellent makeup. Bulldog. Father and uncle former pro pitchers. Nephew of Colorado scout Will George.

Stormy
06-04-2002, 06:45 PM
George is a HS pitcher Guernsey, but otherwise point well taken. 11+ rounds later they arrive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Reds army
06-04-2002, 06:47 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Red Storm:
<strong>George is a HS pitcher Guernsey, but otherwise point well taken. 11+ rounds later they arrive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which means is was probably in the Reds formula for this draft. Interesting to get a little feedback.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 06:49 PM
A little more from teamone on OJ King

OJ King
Talequah (OK)
Northwestern State
position Pitcher
height 6-foot-3
weight 210 pounds
class '02
bats right
throws right

Bio Notes and Stats: King is a strong-armed right-handed pitcher who has top-five to seven round potential.

guernsey
06-04-2002, 06:51 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Red Storm:
<strong>George is a HS pitcher Guernsey, but otherwise point well taken. 11+ rounds later they arrive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, but he will go to college if the Reds don't sign him!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Stormy
06-04-2002, 06:58 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by guernsey:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Red Storm:
<strong>George is a HS pitcher Guernsey, but otherwise point well taken. 11+ rounds later they arrive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, but he will go to college if the Reds don't sign him!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, I was actually thinking the same thing as I typed my response to you. Given the fact that I think George expected to be drafted considerably higher, it would not be surprising at all to see him take that scholarship offer and head out to Big 12 country afterall. We'll see. Then you'll be right about us drafting another big college pitcher, ex post facto.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 06:59 PM
i stepped out for a second, i see we selected

Ben Lavender PELHAM HS C L/R 6'3" 185 02/10/1984 HS

in the 17th round, but did anyone catch who we got in the 18th and 19th?

Here is a little info on 12th rounder Mike Bassett

Class:Senior
Hometown:Paramus, NJ
Height / Weight:6-2 / 205
Position: Outfield
Birthdate:02/10/1980
Bats/Throws:L/L
AT GW: First team All-Atlantic 10 last season...selected to the Verizon Atlantic 10 All-Championship team...led team with 14 home runs, 15 doubles and 230 at bats...second on the team with 59 RBIs...ranks in GW’s top ten all-time in seven offensive categories...needs eight home runs to become GW’s all-time leader...has 43 home runs during his GW career...led team with 15 home runs in 2000...tied for team lead with 72 RBIs...was third on the team in hits with 72...tremendous freshman campaign, batting .313 with 14 homers and 46 RBIs...finished third in the conference in home runs...recorded 12 multiple RBI games as a freshman, including six RBIs versus Xavier (4/30/99)...hit .545 with the bases loaded (in 11 chances)...back-to-back A-10 Rookie of the Week honors (5/3/99 and 5/10/99).

HIGH SCHOOL: Member of All-State first team senior year...34 career home runs and 128 RBIs...high school league champions in 1997..All-County wrestler...placed third at state finals in the 171 lb. division..high school quarterback...totaled 1,350 passing yards.

PERSONAL: Born February 10, 1980 in Ridgewood, NJ..son of Harry Bassett...has a younger brother, Bryan (19)...finance major.

Year AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
1999 .313 51 163 45 51 9 0 14 46 24 29 1
2000 .340 58 212 49 72 16 0 15 72 31 33 3
2001 .326 59 230 44 75 15 0 14 59 13 26 5
Career .326 168 605 138 198 40 0 43 177 68 88 9

<small>[ 06-04-2002, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Clemson ]</small>

gonelong
06-04-2002, 06:59 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by red-in-la:
<strong>
But I will say this....Mel Kiper and those who just about fell off their stools laughing up the Bengals for drafting Levi Jones are going to be eating their words by November.

The Bengals appear to have made a HUGE steal in this kid.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you really "steal" anybody with a top 15 pick in the draft? :p

Kiper had Jones ranked 9th about 3 weeks before the draft, so Kiper knows he is a solid player. What Kiper and the other hairdoos were lamenting was that they felt the Bengals could have traded down and still picked him or another solid player later in the draft. (A notion that seemed not to hold water after talking with the Giants who might have drafted Jones.)

They were in no way down on Jones as a player, but rather the way the Bengals drafted. They felt they could have gotten more value out of the pick, say a CB (or Jones) and a 3rd round pick maybe. (Again, this seemed less likely in after-the-draft reports.)

That said I thought it was an decent enough pick and early returns from camp suggest he will probably be our starting left tackle this year. They seem thouroughly impressed by him so far.

---------------------------
Rating a baseball draft is a whole lot tougher IMO since most of the guys are 2-3 years away from having a chance at the MLB level much less producing there. Some pitchers muddle their way through 3-4 years in the minors and 5-6 years in the majors before the light clicks on, so who knows, you might have to wait 10 years, an arm surgery, and 3 organizations to find out how your pick turned out.

That said, I have no problems with people stating a well thought out opinion on the draft 2 seconds after a pick is made, worst-draft-ever statements aside.

GL

Puffy
06-04-2002, 07:01 PM
Stormy,

ex post facto - come on dude!! I just graduated from law school and am now taking the bar review course from hell, and back, then to hell again. I don't need legal terms on this board!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

PiggyPuff
06-04-2002, 07:26 PM
Before you get down too much for drafting a third baseman in the 2nd round with the intention of having him pitch (if that is, in fact, true), remember the success they had in the mid 60's in drafting in the 2nd round a pitcher from HS in Oklahoma who they (and only they) projected as a catcher.

Crash Davis
06-04-2002, 07:33 PM
18. ZACHARIAH MCCORMACK SACRAMENTO CC LHP L/L 6'2" 195 01/18/1982 JR

19. CHRISTOPHER DENORFIA WHEATON COL CF R/R 6'1" 185 07/15/1980 4YR

NC Reds
06-04-2002, 07:38 PM
Denorfia is a Division III AA. He hit .457 (yes, I know III is relatively weak).

Deepred05
06-04-2002, 07:42 PM
Not really fair comparing the Cubs picks with ours. They had four out of the first 38 picks. We had one. You gotta love their draft though.

Clemson
06-04-2002, 07:56 PM
[Jose] Enrique Cruz IF 5-10, 180
So. Houston

Rice — Five-tool player who could have become one of the Owls’ best-ever freshmen had not most of his rookie season been lost to injury… Named to the 2002 preseason all-WAC team at shortstop by league coaches... Fully recovered from the injury and looks to be a major contributor in the middle infield.

Coach Wayne Graham on Cruz — “He’s made progress as a left-handed hitter this year. We didn’t feel like he was ready left-handed last year and we asked him to hit only right-handed. He’s come along enough this year that he can be effective as a switch-hitter, and it’s what he wants to do. Defensively, he’s motivated to be a shortstop and he has some assets for the position.”

#24 [Chris] Glenn Kamis - P
Class: Fr DOB: 1-10-82
Height: 6’5" Weight: 185
Throws: R Bats: R
Hometown: Streamwood High School: Driscoll Catholic
Major: Undecided

Coach's Profile: Glenn is a very gifted pitcher that transferred to us from the University of Illinois. He possesses a great arm and the ability to throw 3 pitches for strikes. With that being said, we expect Glenn to win a lot of games for us this year.

Cigar2
06-04-2002, 08:45 PM
Well the new's on Gruler is we HAVE signed him to a deal already and the way it sound's we signed him basically right after we drafted him.
He get's a 2mil bonus but more importantly he sign a minor league contract.
So we don't have to worry about putting him on the 40 man roster

JaxRed
06-04-2002, 08:53 PM
Hopefully MLB won't find out the contract had yesterdays date on it !!

KYRedsFan
06-05-2002, 01:16 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cigar2:
<strong>Well the new's on Gruler is we HAVE signed him to a deal already and the way it sound's we signed him basically right after we drafted him.
He get's a 2mil bonus but more importantly he sign a minor league contract.
So we don't have to worry about putting him on the 40 man roster</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just opened mlb.com this morning and saw the great news. Little different than last year's snafu :D

Also said there are verbal agreements with Votto and Olmstead.

<small>[ 06-05-2002, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: KYRedsFan ]</small>

MasonBuzz3
06-05-2002, 02:04 PM
Does anyone know if Jensen Lewis of Anderson HS has been picked yet? My understanding is that he is probably leaning toward college (Vanderbuilt, I think) but maybe he would change those plans to pitch for his hometown ballclub. I think that he would be a really be a nice pick on day 2.

princeton
06-05-2002, 02:24 PM
still available.

However, Scott Hindman, LHPer from Princeton, was selected at the end of the first day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Clemson
06-05-2002, 03:13 PM
Here are a few guys we selected so far in Day 2

23. NICHOLAS MARKAKIS YOUNG HARRIS COL LHP L/L 6'1" 170 11/17/1983 JR

24. JARROD SCHMIDT CLEMSON U C/RHP R/R 6'2" 200 10/02/1980 4YR

(From Clemson website) Most versatile player on the team... invaluable as a hitter and a pitcher... has a career winning percentage of .842, the seventh best all time at Clemson... projected as the starter in right field this season when not on the mound... third-team preseason All-American choice for 2002 by the National Collegiate Baseball Writers Association.

Coach Leggett Comments: "Jarrod is one of the top players in the country and one of the most versatile baseball players in the country. Jarrod was a first-team freshman All-American... He went 9-0 as a pitcher during his freshman year. We will still count on him as a pitcher, but his role will change and shift more toward playing every day in right field. He's going to be an excellent offensive player for us. He's one of the kids we love to see come up in clutch situations. He's very unselfish, hardworking and competitive. He's one of the leaders on this baseball team and one of the toughest kids we have on this team. He's poised to have a great year in the outfield, a great year at the plate, and we will continue to use him on the mound because of his competitiveness."

25. ROBERT MOSBY NORTHEASTERN OK A&M 1B R/R 6'3" 240 04/09/1982 JR

26. CHRISTOPHER DUNN CHAPARRAL HS SS R/R 5'10" 180 03/08/1984 HS

27. JUAN VELAZQUEZ MONTGOMERY HS RHP R/R 6'4" 190 10/11/1983 HS 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Tall, lean muscles. Future Joaquin Benoit body. Quick arm. Occasional cutter movement to fastball. Good arm extension out front. Adequate slider location and break. Other pitch is splitter with fair deception and occasional late drop. Competitor. Enthusiasm for game. Just keeps getting better.

guernsey
06-05-2002, 03:51 PM
825 JAY TUST STADIUM HS 2B R/R 5'11" 190 05/21/1984 HS

855 RICHARD CORRELL LIMESTONE COL SS R/R 6'1" 205 06/17/1981 4YR

princeton
06-05-2002, 04:15 PM
I'm stumped: who is Joaquin Benoit and would one want to have his body?

Buckeye33
06-05-2002, 04:36 PM
Benoit is a top pitching prospect in the Rangers organization.

He is 6-3 205 pounds.

I think that is a very nice size for a pitcher.

<small>[ 06-05-2002, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Buckeye33 ]</small>

BuckeyeRed27
06-05-2002, 05:45 PM
Jensen Lewis of Anderson High School was just drafted by the Indians. He is commited to Vandy, but he might decide to go play anyways. I can't wait to watch my Redskins and Jensen beat up on Milford Friday though. :)

TeamBoone
06-05-2002, 06:00 PM
I have a few questions regarding the article about Chris Gruler. It says in the article posted by RF62 that the Reds are going to pay $160,000 for his education at Arizona State:

Early in the article, it says he accepted a "free ride" at Arizona.

"By the end of his junior year, the 6-foot-3, 210-pound right-hander had received more than 3,000 letters from colleges and had 40 Division I offers. He eventually accepted a full-ride offer from Arizona State."

"Gruler said the Reds also will pay for his education at Arizona State, worth another $160,000. He plans to start school in two years or so."

Soooooo:

1) If he has a "free ride", why are the Reds going to pay for his college education at Arizona?

2) And, if he's going to college, why is he waiting for another "two years or so" to do so?

3) Does that mean he's going to play in the Reds minor league system, take a few years off, and then come back to the minor league system?

- If yes, it'll take him forever to make the majors, won't it?

- If no, than I don't get it.

Help? :confused:

<small>[ 06-05-2002, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: TeamBoone ]</small>

RFS62
06-05-2002, 06:07 PM
He would have had that "free ride" if he didn't turn pro, TB.

As a pro baseball player, which he is now, he's inelligible for college baseball, thus no more scholarship.

TeamBoone
06-05-2002, 06:20 PM
Ahhhh, thanks RF. But that only answers part of it. Keep going.... :)

cincinnati chili
06-05-2002, 06:21 PM
Many players will take classes in the off-season. Hopefully this won't happen. But if he blows his arm out in 4 years, he could theoretically be half way to a bachelor's degree simply by taking classes from late September through January.

It is common for baseball teams to offer full tuition to their high school draftees (I'm not sure if it's all draftees or just ones from certain rounds). But my understanding is that if Scott Gruler became bored from baseball in a couple years, and decided to retire, the Reds would be on the hook for 100% of the expense for him to go out and get a bachelor's degree... whether that degree is at an in-state school or Harvard.

Anyone know more about this?

Clemson
06-05-2002, 06:36 PM
885 JUSTIN KNOFF SIENA COL RHP R/R 6'4" 195 06/22/1981 4YR

COMMENT: Tall with long, slender arms and legs, like Jack McDowell. Fastball is 89-91 with late sink and side tail. Good late bite on 11-to-5 curve. Gets sink and tail on circle change. Type of arm to learn slider. Aggressive and durable.



915 MAYQUE QUINTERO NO SCHOOL RHP R/R 6'2" 225 04/19/1978 NS

COMMENT:



945 GERALD SMITH THOMAS JEFFERSON HS RF L/R 0'0" 0 10/11/1983 HS

COMMENT:



975 BARTON BRAUN DIABLO VALLEY LHP L/L 5'10" 150 02/08/1982 JR

COMMENT:



1005 CODY MCALLISTER SNOHOMISH HS RHP R/R 6'3" 185 03/21/1984 HS

COMMENT:



1035 STANTREL SMITH TOWERS HS CF R/R 0'0" 0 10/21/1983 HS

COMMENT:



1065 MATT KRIMMEL GEORGE WASHINGTON U 3B L/R 6'3" 220 09/26/1980 4YR

COMMENT:



1095 SHAWN AICHELE WESTERN HILLS HS RHP R/R 6'1" 215 10/27/1982 HS

COMMENT:



1125 HARDY HUTTO GARDEN CITY CC RHP R/R 6'3" 210 07/14/1982 JR

COMMENT:



1155 CALVIN MEDLOCK WESTBURY HS RHP R/R 5'10" 175 11/08/1982 HS 56k | 300k

COMMENT: Small-medium frame, wiry, slender, athletic build. Extremely long arms for size and body type, similar to Mariano Rivera. Overhand-to-three-quarter delivery. Quick, live easy arm action. Throws downhill, sneaky, quick fastball (87-88) with occasional hard tail, downward sink. Still 87-90 in 7th inning. Ball jumps out of hand. Signs of tight, quick, down-breaking curve.



1185 CHRISTOPHER BELL MIAMI DADE NORTH JC RHP R/R 6'2" 200 09/24/1980 JR

COMMENT:



1215 MARCUS TOWNSEND U TEXAS RF R/R 6'3" 200 04/20/1982 4YR

COMMENT:



1245 DANIEL KELLY DURANGO HS SS R/R 6'2" 185 07/14/1984 HS

15fan
06-05-2002, 06:51 PM
chili -

Was your statement "Hopefully this won't happen" in regards to the kid taking college classes, or blowing out his arm?

If it's the latter, I obviously agree whole-heartedly with you. But if it's the former, I've got big problems...

NC Reds
06-05-2002, 07:01 PM
The Reds just got an outfielder from the University of Incarnate Word (it's in San Antonio). Give the scouts credit for turning over every stone, if nothing else.

<small>[ 06-05-2002, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: NC Reds ]</small>

Clemson
06-05-2002, 07:06 PM
Round 48 Brings us the possible return of Travis Wong

1275 DEREK HAWK MENDOCINO CC RHP R/R 6'4" 175 11/13/1982 JR

COMMENT:



1303 JASON BACA SWEENY HS RHP R/R 6'3" 200 11/22/1983 HS

COMMENT:



1331 DENNIS LEDUC CUESTA COL RHP R/R 6'4" 195 04/05/1982 JR

COMMENT:



1358 TROY CAIRNS U NEW MEXICO SS R/R 5'11" 155 09/29/1980 4YR

COMMENT:



1384 MICHAEL BRYANT SAM RAYBURN HS RHP R/R 6'6" 205 11/09/1983 HS

COMMENT:



1410 TRAVIS WONG TEXAS A&M 1B R/R 6'6" 235 08/28/1981 4YR

BuckeyeRedleg
06-05-2002, 07:25 PM
Wow! I think we drafted Wong high a few years back (13th round?) and now he's at the bottom. He has the option to go back to Texas A & M for one more year. I wonder if they offer him that 13th round money again?

Clemson
06-05-2002, 07:41 PM
Some more info on draftees

Round 36
Matt Krimmel
Class:Senior
Hometown:Schnecksville, PA
Height / Weight:6-4 / 220
Position:Infield
Birthdate:09/26/1980
Bats/Throws:L/R

AT GW: Will be a team captain for the second consecutive season...will bat third and play third base...Second Team All-Atlantic 10 last season...led the team in runs scored with 55...tied for the team lead with 78 hits...second on the team with a .361 batting average...third on the team with 12 doubles...finished third on the team with a .342 batting average in 2000 despite missing 24 games with a broken finger...batted .337 as a freshman and recorded 13 multi-hit games, including a 5-for-6 performance vs. UMBC on 4/13/99 and a 4-for-5 performance versus Navy the following day.

HIGH SCHOOL: Allentown Morning Call All-Area team as a senior...Lehigh Valley Carpenter Cup champions senior year....432 batting average...seven home runs...30 RBIs...leading boys basketball scorer in school history.

PERSONAL: Born September 26, 1980 in Allentown, PA...son of John and Catherine Krimmel...has an older brother, Daniel (23)...enjoys basketball, weightlifting and traveling...finance major.

Year AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
1999 .337 49 166 31 56 15 1 3 28 15 42 0
2000 .342 35 114 38 39 7 0 6 26 22 22 4
2001 .361 58 216 58 78 7 1 5 49 31 39 11
Career .346 142 496 127 173 29 2 14 103 68 103 15

Round 48
Travis Wong
Infielder
6-5 • 225 • Jr-2L • Bats/Throws: R/R
Boise, Idaho (Timberline)
Power-hitting first baseman with an imposing physical stature ... hit .342 with three home runs and eight doubles last season ... slugging percentage of .557 was the highest on the club last season ... was 3-for-4 against Penn State (4/4/01) and drove in a career-high four runs against Oklahoma State (4/21/01) ... played for the Aloha Knights in Portland Ore., this summer ... saw action at first base or as the team’s DH in 42 games in the 2000 season while starting 29 ... posted three-hit games against Arizona (2/19/00) and Rice (4/18/00) ... had three RBI against Arizona (2/19/00) ... hit home runs against Texas Tech (3/12/00) and Sam Houston (4/25/00) ... was a key cog for the USA Junior National Team that won the gold medal in the Junior World Championships in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, his greatest athletic thrill to date ... he hit .320 with two home runs and six RBI ... had a single and a home run against Japan in a 6-3 victory that ended in the seventh inning when a transformer blew and half of the field went dark ... hit the game-winning home run in the top of the eighth in the semifinal game against Cuba, 3-2 ... lettered his sophomore year in baseball at Boise High School before moving to Timberline High ... earned two baseball letters at Timberline for coach Larry Price ... won three Idaho State Baseball Championships ... selected All-Conference all three years and was the conference MVP his senior year ... earned All-State accolades after his senior season ... hit home runs for the cycle with a solo shot, two-run, three-run homer and a grand slam in one game ... was drafted in the 1999 MLB amateur draft in the 13th-round by the Cincinnati Reds ... enjoys playing golf and fishing ... his father attended Texas A&M ... brother Jerrod played in the Atlanta Braves organization for four years ... born in Austin, Texas on August 28, 1981 ... son of Doug and Cathy Wong of Boise, Idaho ... sociology major.

CAREER STATISTICS

Year BA G-GS AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI
2000 .282 42/29 117 12 33 7 0 2 14
2001 .342 31/20 79 14 27 8 0 3 17
Career .306 73/49 196 26 60 15 0 5 31

Year TB Slug% BB HBP SO OB% SF-SH SB-SBA
2000 46 .393 4 8 25 .344 2-0 0-0
2001 44 .557 1 4 15 .376 1-1 0-0
Career 90 .459 5 12 40 .356 3-1 0-0

Round 30
Justin Knoff
Class:Junior
Hometown: Burlington, N.J.
Height / Weight:6-4 / 180
Position:Pitcher
Birthdate:06/22/1981
B/T:R/R

GENERAL: Hard-working right hander with the best movement on the staff. Developed into Rossi’s top set-up man out of the bullpen. Improved tremendously in off-season. Hard, sharp curve ball is a good compliment to moving fastball.

STRENGTHS: Movement, Velocity, Confidence.

IN THE SUMMER OF 2001: Played for the Maryland Orioles. The showcase team played in a variety of leagues

AS A SOPHOMORE: Limited opponents to a .247 batting average (second on team) and MAAC foes to just .232. His 3.92 overall ERA was fourth best on the team and his conference mark of 2.55 ERA is the best on the squad. Recorded four times as many ground ball outs as fly balls. Posted 5.8 strikeouts per nine innings in MAAC games and was second on the team with 16 appearances. Did not allow an earned run in 6.1 innings of work at national powerhouse Louisiana-Lafayette.

IN THE SUMMER OF 2000: Played for the Geneva Redlegs of the Northeastern Collegiate Baseball League, where he was named to the 2000 All-Star game at Rome’s Larry DeLutis Field.

AS A FRESHMAN: Saw action in nine games. Best performance came at Cornell when he pitched five innings, struck out two and allowed only two runs.

IN HIGH SCHOOL: 1999 Philadelphia Inquirer Player to Watch. Led Holy Cross to South Jersey Finals as a junior with two playoff complete games.

ROSSI ON KNOFF: “Justin is coming off a solid summer and if he is consistent he will fight for a spot in the rotation. He was an impact player out of the bullpen last season and could develop into a dominant pitcher in the league.”

YEAR G GS CG IP H R ER BB SO W-L ERA PCT.
2000 9 3 1 34.2 47 35 30 20 18 0-2 7.79 .000
2001 16 4 0 43.2 41 27 19 23 21 4-2 3.92 .667
TOT 25 7 1 78.1 88 62 49 43 39 4-4 5.63 .500

Round 46
Troy Cairns •9
•2B •Jr-2L •6-0 •160
Blue Springs HS/Blue Springs, Mo.

Troy is a two-year starter who has been named all-conference in both his freshman and sophomore seasons... very smooth in the field with great range and a strong arm... he and SS Dusty Young helped UNM turn a league-leading 65 double plays a year ago... a very good contact hitter who has struck out an average of once every 9 AB (52K/ 484 AB) for his career... not heavily recruited by Division I teams out of high school, and coaching staff considers him a steal... played summer ball in Jayhawk League... had a productive fall, hitting .298 with 8 doubles in 57 AB during UNM's intrasquad games... 2001... named first team all-Mountain West at 2B... tied for team lead with a .349 average, which was also T7th in the league... led the Mountain West in at bats (275), doubles (26), hits (96) and assists (179)... the at-bats established a school record... was T2nd with 6 triples... tied a school record with 2 3B vs. S. Utah (2/12)... also stole a career-high 12 bases... led UNM with 27 multi-hit games (including 5 of 4 or more) and had 7 multi-RBI games... hit team-highs of .448 with runners in scoring position and .402 with runners on base... 28 K in 275 AB or one in just under every 10 AB... started all 60 games at 2B... had first career 5-hit game (5-5) vs. SUU (2/11), and went 9-10 in 2 game series vs. Thunderbirds... had a pair of 10-game hitting streaks, and hit safely in 24 of last 26 games... hit safely in 51 of 60 contests overall... hit a career-best 2 HR (vs. Miami (Oh) & Utah)... was named MWC player of the week (4/4) after going 9-16 (.563) with 7 R in a three-game series vs. Air Force... MWC Tournament... 6-19 (.316) with 4 runs, 2 2B and a 3B... 2000 (Freshman)... named second team all-MWC... led UNM with 6 triples (T2nd in MWC) and led the league with 160 assists at 2B... started 53 of 55 games, including all 30 MWC contests... hit .352 in conference games (43-122), after batting just .253 (22-87) in non-league affairs... tied a school record with 2 triples vs. AFA (4/16)... had 19 multi-hit games and 8 multi-RBI games... had a season-high 7-game hitting streak (4/7-22), in which he went 12-28 (.429)... had a season-high 4 hits vs. AFA (4/15), also scoring 3 runs and driving in 3... had a career-high 4 RBI in win over UNLV (4/28), including a double and his first career HR... had a 2-game stretch vs. NMSU (2/11-12) in which he had 8 walks (4 per game) and scored 5 runs... owned Air Force, going 13-24 (.542) in seven games on the season... MWC Tournament... outstanding tournament, going 6-12 (.500) with 2 hits in each game... scored 3 runs and 3 RBI in 17-3 first round win over AFA (5/17)... High School... was a three-year letterwinner for coach Richard Wood at Blue Springs South HS in Blue Springs, Mo... as a senior, hit .700 with four homers and was named team MVP and first team all-state... Personal... born on September 29, 1980, in Minneapolis, Minn... son of Paul and Sue Cairns... major is Communications.

Round 50
Ben Himes
Outfielder
6-5 • 220 • Jr-1L • Bats/Throws: L/R
Brazoria, Texas (West Columbia)



CAREER STAT TOTALS
Click Here

Power-hitting left-hander that battled through knee problems last season … had surgery on his knee in the off-season … played in 32 games and started 24, mostly in right field … went 4-for-4 with 2 RBI against Texas (4/16/01) in the Big 12 Tournament … had a career-high 3 RBI against Missouri (5/11/01) … came back to his home state of Texas after a one-year stint at the University of Virginia … had a 30 inch vertical jump, power cleaned 319 pounds, squatted 460 pounds and bench pressed 385 pounds in the 2000 fall testing … hit .316 and led Virginia with nine home runs in 2000 … was named a freshman All-American after his season at Virginia … earned two letters for coach Jim Darilek at Westlake High School in Austin … hit .360 with 10 long balls during his senior season … was an all-state selection in 1999 … played in two straight state championship games … was drafted in the 42nd round of the MLB amateur draft by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays … enjoys martial arts when not playing baseball … born March 9, 1981 in Austin … son of Richard and Dorothy Himes of Austin … economics major.

CAREER STATISTICS

Year BA G-GS AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI
2001 .311 32/24 90 12 28 4 0 1 18
Career .311 32/24 90 12 28 4 0 1 18

Year TB Slug% BB HBP SO OB% SF-SH SB-SBA
2001 35 .389 6 0 27 .347 2/0 2-4
Career 35 .389 6 0 27 .347 2/0 2-4

Clemson
06-05-2002, 07:42 PM
we finish up our draft with 2 outfielders

1436 WILLIAM DENNIS INCARNATE WARD U CF L/L 6'2" 180 09/28/1980 4YR

COMMENT:



1460 BENJAMIN HIMES TEXAS A&M RF L/R 6'4" 205 03/09/1981 4YR

cincinnati chili
06-05-2002, 09:48 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 15fan:
<strong>chili -

Was your statement "Hopefully this won't happen" in regards to the kid taking college classes, or blowing out his arm?

If it's the latter, I obviously agree whole-heartedly with you. But if it's the former, I've got big problems...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The latter. I wouldn't wish arm trouble on too many people. Don't know what I'd do without my right arm.