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dsmith421
01-08-2006, 02:58 PM
You've got to be kidding me...



Sunday, January 8, 2006

Freel arrested in Tampa

By John Fay and Kevin Kelly
Enquirer staff writers
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Ryan Freel
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Reds infielder Ryan Freel was arrested early this morning in Tampa and charged with one count of disorderly intoxication, according to a booking report from the Hillsborough County jail.

The charge is a second-degree misdemeanor.

According to the report, Freel was arrested at 3:35 a.m. at the corner of Platt Street and Packwood Avenue in Tampa. He listed himself as unemployed and refused to take a breathalyzer, according to the report.

Freel, who last month signed a two-year deal worth at least $3-million, was released at 11:05 a.m. today from the Hillsborough County jail on a $250 bond.

Reds general manager Dan O'Brien said today he was not aware of the incident.

"It's news to me," O'Brien said. "I'm very reluctant to comment without having all the facts."

It is the second time Freel has been arrested in less than a year. He was arrested and charged with driving under the influence in Northern Kentucky after Opening Day on April 4 last season.

Freel pled guilty, and paid $661.50 in fines and court costs.

icehole3
01-08-2006, 03:07 PM
strike 2

919191
01-08-2006, 03:12 PM
It's not good- but if I was a young man making that kind of dough, I would be getting in serious trouble. Professionally, this doesn't bother me a bit. I would hope that personally, though, he looks at his future long and hard.

Redny
01-08-2006, 03:23 PM
Disturbing, fortunately he wasn't driving. Trade him while he has some value.

creek14
01-08-2006, 03:47 PM
Once was a mistake. Twice is starting to form a pattern and indicate a problem.

Reds need to provide a little tough love and insist he get help.

redsfanmia
01-08-2006, 03:53 PM
Its time to cut ties with this man.

Redsland
01-08-2006, 03:54 PM
Maybe the reason the team doesn't see Freel as an everyday player is because they see a lot of suspensions in his future.

:)

M2
01-08-2006, 03:58 PM
Honestly, I could care less about this one. I don't mind if Freel sometimes gets loaded. I know I got loaded more than a few times at age 29. Getting loaded and driving was one (very bad) thing. This one sounds like a busybody cop enforcing a dumb local statute.

As a complete aside., if you can't walk to where you're going when you're drunk then isn't that incentive to try to drive there?

creek14
01-08-2006, 04:01 PM
Honestly, I could care less about this one. I don't mind if Freel sometimes gets loaded. I know I got loaded more than a few times at age 29. Getting loaded and driving was one (very bad) thing. This one sounds like a busybody cop enforcing a dumb local statute.

Might well be, but my cousin the cop only busts for disorderly if the person is doing something bad (fighting or mouthing off) or disgusitng (tinkle).

Redsland
01-08-2006, 04:03 PM
I agree with most of your post, M2, but D'n'D suggests to me that he was outside either a bar or a girl's house and that he was making quite a ruckus. It doesn't suggest to me that he was simply walking home drunk.

Obviously, I could be wrong about that, though.

MartyFan
01-08-2006, 04:04 PM
The guy is careless on the field and he is showing a trend of being careless off the field as well...trade him.

Reds4Life
01-08-2006, 04:09 PM
Cops usually only arrest on public intox if the supsect refuses to move along, or creates some type of scene (yelling, mouthing off to the officer). If they create a scene they get hooked and booked for public intox and sleep it off in county.

I think Mr. Freel has a lot of growing up to do, and these frequent encounters with law enforcement are becoming unacceptable.

TOBTTReds
01-08-2006, 04:10 PM
I dont trade him. So far, both incidences have been drinking related. Let the guy seek some help before dumping him. He means a lot to the team, and is a good part of the team. If he got arrested for domestic violence with his wife, would there be such a ruckus? Probably not, people would say he needs to go to counciling with his wife.

I personally dont think you trade someone bc they were drunk outside a bar (or whatever this case was), unless he is truly doing something bad. He needs to seek help and get better. He's no Ray Lewis....

M2
01-08-2006, 04:14 PM
I agree with most of your post, M2, but D'n'D suggests to me that he was outside either a bar or a girl's house and that he was making quite a ruckus. It doesn't suggest to me that he was simply walking home drunk.

Obviously, I could be wrong about that, though.

From years of covering police blotters I can tell you that D'n'D is one of the most trumped up charges on the books. Most times, it's someone showing mild signs of drunkenness who gets nabbed by a cop looking for something to do. There's usually very little "disorderly" when you read the arrest logs. It usually mentions one of two words - "erratic" or "loud" - with few specifics. I mean, if you were being little bit loud why wouldn't the cop just tell you to keep it down? Wouldn't that be the more sensible thing to do?

I had a friend who went to school down in Blacksburg, VA where the locals used to (and might still) make D'n'D a holy crusade. When I visited him at his frat, guys literally recommended that, after tying a few on, we drive to a bar a few blocks away so that when wouldn't get snagged for D'n'D. So, while I appreciate there's police like creek's cousin who only snag people who are way over the top, I know from experience that it isn't the norm.

Maybe Freel was being nuts, but you'll note there's nothing to that effect in the report. My guess is that's because it didn't make its way into the police log ... and it generally would make it into the police log if he were specifically doing something outlandish.

pedro
01-08-2006, 04:15 PM
Without knowing the facts of what led up to the arrest I can't really make a judgement.

If he'd of been driving, I'd probably have another take on it.

KronoRed
01-08-2006, 04:26 PM
At least he wasn't driving (do I hear an echo?)

Although I agree this does indicate he has a problem.

Team Clark
01-08-2006, 04:47 PM
Guess that big apology doesn't mean much now.

Unassisted
01-08-2006, 04:59 PM
Good thing he wasn't on probation for the Kentucky incident.

I'm not too concerned about this, based on what I've heard thus far. Hopefully he's already gotten a phone call from "Captain" Jason.

Redsland
01-08-2006, 05:01 PM
Good thing he wasn't on probation for the Kentucky incident.
Great point.

Chip R
01-08-2006, 05:45 PM
Had a fellow tell me several years ago that it doesn't matter how much you drink it's what happens while you're drinking that is the problem. A person may not drink 364 days of the year but if they drink on that 365th day and something happens because of it, they have a drinking problem. IMO, Ryan Freel has a drinking problem. This is at least the 2nd time he's been in trouble because of drinking. He either needs to go into rehab or the Reds should suspend him without pay. That might sober up his ass in a hurry.

Of course this may make the Aurilia signing an even higher priority than it was before. :(

lollipopcurve
01-08-2006, 05:46 PM
I believe he's married and has recently become a father. This guy has a real problem.

MartyFan
01-08-2006, 06:07 PM
I dont trade him. So far, both incidences have been drinking related. Let the guy seek some help before dumping him. He means a lot to the team, and is a good part of the team. If he got arrested for domestic violence with his wife, would there be such a ruckus? Probably not, people would say he needs to go to counciling with his wife.

I personally dont think you trade someone bc they were drunk outside a bar (or whatever this case was), unless he is truly doing something bad. He needs to seek help and get better. He's no Ray Lewis....


If it was doomestic violence my personal opinion is that you simply drop the guy...No second chance in my book on that sort of nonsense.

Because he is a drunk he needs help but the help he needs will only work when he wants it...it's on him..I'd trade him and move on.

Jpup
01-08-2006, 06:24 PM
I would trade him if you can get a good return, if not, keep him and make sure he works on his problem. The Reds should have made him go to rehab before. There is simply no excuse to drink and drive. With all the money he has, he could pay someone to drive him around. As far as the disordererly conduct, that is just plain stupid. What is a 29 year old millionaire doing out running the streets of Tampa, in the middle of the night? He should be arrested for stupidity.:help:

WVRedsFan
01-08-2006, 06:37 PM
Once was a mistake. Twice is starting to form a pattern and indicate a problem.

Reds need to provide a little tough love and insist he get help.

Exactly.

I've seen this behavior before and it always ends in tragedy. It might be best that we get what we can for him and move on. The first time should have been a lesson. It apparently wasn't and that's a very bad sign.

M2
01-08-2006, 06:53 PM
Wow, aside from being cut and/or sent forcibly into rehab is there anything else the guy needs? A shock collar? Chemical castration?

Topcat
01-08-2006, 07:00 PM
Get a rope :evil: , all kidding aside Ryan needs to look for some help before situations such as this end in a tragedy.

RFS62
01-08-2006, 07:23 PM
Seems like we ought to find out some details before we string him up.

It may be as bad as the worst case scenario people are worrying about, it may not.

WVRedsFan
01-08-2006, 07:50 PM
Seems like we ought to find out some details before we string him up.

It may be as bad as the worst case scenario people are worrying about, it may not.

Of course, you are right, but in my experience, the first drinking violation which results in a fine, threat of job, or embarrassment usually see an end to that behavior unless there is a real problem. I hope I'm wrong.

Also, usually PI tickets are not given if you have sober friends who will transport you home or you act politely. Apparently, Ryan did something stupid in his drunken state (like swing at an officer?--or ran his mouth like Kurt Busch?--"Do you know who I am?") which caused the ticket to be written.

Caseyfan21
01-08-2006, 07:53 PM
Seems like we ought to find out some details before we string him up.

It may be as bad as the worst case scenario people are worrying about, it may not.

Yes, I agree. People are going off the deep end here throwing out situations and that's how rumors get started. All we know on this is one newspaper article. I would hope by tomorrow we could get a full report of what happened and hopefully some quotes from Freel and the Reds management. That being said I think he should have to undergo some mandatory rehab. As Creek said, twice is a trend. Hopefully he can sort things out and start being more responsible. I think everyone enjoys a few drinks but obviously Ryan is not running with the right crowd. I go out with friends and the one thing I know is that my friends will be there to keep me out of trouble no matter what happens. Ryan obviously didn't have anyone with him to pull him away when he started getting rowdy.


Edit: Wow WVRedsFan, our posts are almost identical.:laugh:

Aronchis
01-08-2006, 07:57 PM
Sounds like Ryan had a few(ok several) brews and then decided to make his presence felt out in the public.

traderumor
01-08-2006, 08:07 PM
My goodness, you'd think he had gotten caught in an orgy with animals and teen agers, or smoking cigarettes at his desk. Drinking problem, apparently. Dumping him? A bit reactionary and overstated. IMO

traderumor
01-08-2006, 08:08 PM
I believe he's married and has recently become a father. This guy has a real problem.Don't we all.

GAC
01-08-2006, 08:11 PM
I sympathize with him for drinking. He has more justification.

I'm just a FAN of a really bad Red's team.

He's a PLAYER for a really bad Red's team.

That should have been his defense. No court in this country would convict him. ;)

BCubb2003
01-08-2006, 08:30 PM
Fyi...

http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/pub/default.asp?/Online/qdisp/bn=06001752

37red
01-08-2006, 08:47 PM
Calm down....... geese, what he needs is to learn to not get in trouble. How many times have you guys gotten toasted and not gotten into trouble. Some people are just unlucky and in the wrong spot at the wrong time. It was a weekend night and it might have just been an over eager cop. Not all cops are understanding and nice.... most aren't. You don't just dump a ball player because he goes out and hit's the bars. What would Babe Ruth and Micky Mantel have done with this crowd, must less all the other players.

WVRedsFan
01-08-2006, 09:18 PM
I'll never forget the Mick telling anyone who could hear that the drinking and running around hurt his performance.

As fans, it's really none of our business what he does off the field. His performance on the field is what we should care about. Unfortunately, we have a man like Mickey Mantle say it hurt is on-field performance. The club should be concerned (which I'm sure they are) and take appropriate action. Mantle blamed a lot of his injuries on his off-field behavior. Wasn't Ryan out a lot at the end of the season? Hmmm..

Heath
01-08-2006, 09:18 PM
He listed unemployed?

You think he knows something we dont?

TeamMorris
01-08-2006, 09:24 PM
Fyi...

http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/pub/default.asp?/Online/qdisp/bn=06001752

I can't believe that information can be pulled up on the web so easy!! That is scary!!

Unassisted
01-08-2006, 09:26 PM
He listed unemployed?

You think he knows something we dont?I think he was trying to throw reporters who loiter around the police blotter off of the scent of a story. Didn't work so well, did it?

wheels
01-08-2006, 10:14 PM
Man.

If I got arrested every time I've been drunk and disorderly, I'd probably still be in jail.

My whole life was pretty much centered around partying and raising hell when I was in my teens and twenties.

Now, I just drink and complain about not having anything fun to do.

...And the Reds.

cincinnati chili
01-08-2006, 10:15 PM
I can't believe that information can be pulled up on the web so easy!! That is scary!!

I can see your point, but if you think of it, it would be even scarier if the police could lock you up without providing a public record.

As for the matter at hand...

I'm all for the "innocent until proven guilty" thing; but assuming this is legit (even if it was just minor mouthing off to a cop), I would have no problem with the Reds cutting ties with the guy.

Baseball is an entertainment product. The Reds' customers bring their kids to games. These customers, while knowing that baseball players aren't angels, are asked to get behind their team. Middle class fans are asked to forgo fiscal responsibility and buy season tickets, rather than choosing other entertainment options - or saving for their kids' college tuition.

I agree with M2 that this was probably minor. I personally don't really care. But every time the Ryan Freels of the world do this stuff, they risk alienating the fans who are on the fence about the product.

Baseball relies on the illusion that its players are heros, guys we want to cheer for. Ryan Freel endangers that illusion.

realreds1
01-08-2006, 10:16 PM
Article also said he refused his BAC...

wheels
01-08-2006, 10:17 PM
He probably just took a whizz somewhere he shouldn't have.

We could always call him "Otis".

Ya know, that drunk guy that was always in Andy's jail?

Team Clark
01-08-2006, 10:18 PM
This is exactly why every good drinker needs a Whitey Ford and not a Billy Martin. Although I would have paid $10k to go out with those guys for just one night. (And I hardly EVER drink!)

wheels
01-08-2006, 10:23 PM
This is exactly why every good drinker needs a Whitey Ford and not a Billy Martin. Although I would have paid $10k to go out with those guys for just one night. (And I hardly EVER drink!)

Yep.

Ballplayers should probably drink with a little more class.

Thing is, I'm not gonna get on somebody that got caught doing something I've done a gazillion times.

I like hearing stories about ballplayers and drinking and stuff. It's what they were put on this earth to do.

Red Thunder
01-08-2006, 10:44 PM
Who can blame him for getting a few in after the Aurilia signing. That would be the best excuse of all.

guttle11
01-08-2006, 11:04 PM
This might ruffle some feathers, but if I'm Castellini, I do every thing I can to get Lindner to cut him right now. Forget the money, set an example of discipline.

This team obviously needs that with Womack and Aurilia on it, not to mention all the young players coming up.

creek14
01-09-2006, 06:53 AM
Several of you have talked about how we all have gotten drunk and it's no big deal. True. But I doubt many of us have been arrested 2 times in less than a year due to our drinking. Alcohol is a problem if it causes problems in your life, and it is doing that for Ryan.

If I had an employee who was arrested twice for drinking related incidents, I would insist he get help. For two reasons. First it sounds like he/she is on a path where he/she needs it and second because it reflects poorly on my organization.

I don't care if he's a garbage collector or a heart surgeon or a baseball player, it's the right thing to do for Ryan the man, and for the Reds.

Heck I would have been fired, no questions asked, after the first incident.

MartyFan
01-09-2006, 07:08 AM
Being that I survived being hit by a drunk, I have very little respect for Freel. And yes, my opinion is very biased. Cut him, trade him, get him out.

Being drunk is a character falw. It is a problem. I drink beer, wine, etc, if it goes towards being drunk then there is a deeper issue at work and I am just letting myself go.

Free should not be on the opening day roster.

RedFanAlways1966
01-09-2006, 08:02 AM
Several of you have talked about how we all have gotten drunk and it's no big deal. True. But I doubt many of us have been arrested 2 times in less than a year due to our drinking. Alcohol is a problem if it causes problems in your life, and it is doing that for Ryan.

If I had an employee who was arrested twice for drinking related incidents, I would insist he get help. For two reasons. First it sounds like he/she is on a path where he/she needs it and second because it reflects poorly on my organization.

I don't care if he's a garbage collector or a heart surgeon or a baseball player, it's the right thing to do for Ryan the man, and for the Reds.

Heck I would have been fired, no questions asked, after the first incident.

:clap:

Chip R
01-09-2006, 08:54 AM
Leave it to Marc Lancaster to flesh out some details. :thumbup:

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060109/SPT05/601090328/1027

Reds' Freel arrested on alcohol charge

By Marc Lancaster
Post staff reporter

Reds utilityman Ryan Freel was arrested early Sunday morning in Tampa, Fla., and charged with disorderly intoxication - his second arrest on alcohol-related charges in less than a year.

The arrest occurred at 3:35 a.m. and Freel, 29, was released from the Hillsborough County jail at 11:05 a.m. after posting a $250 bond, according to jail records.

Reds general manager Dan O'Brien said late Sunday night that team officials were still trying to piece together the events that led to the arrest. He said he would not comment until he had all the facts on the incident.

O'Brien said he had not spoken with Freel and that manager Jerry Narron had left Freel a message.

"I know that some other members of the organization have made contact," O'Brien said.

The Tampa Tribune cited a police report saying Freel smelled of alcohol and was slurring his words. According to that report, Freel refused to stop screaming obscenities at a pool hall employee, police were called, and Freel was arrested. Jail records indicate Freel refused to take a blood-alcohol content test.

The arrest occurred outside an establishment called The Rack, which is described on its Web site as "Tampa's first pool room-sushi hall."

Freel, a Jacksonville native who still lives in that North Florida city, avoided salary arbitration with the Reds on Dec. 19 and signed a two-year contract that will pay him at least $3 million. Freel will make $1.3 million this season after earning $405,000 last year.

Hours after the Reds' Opening Day victory over the New York Mets last April, Freel was arrested by police in Bellevue, Ky., and charged with driving under the influence of alcohol.

After originally pleading not guilty, Freel entered a guilty plea to the DUI charge May 10 in exchange for prosecutors dropping other charges from the incident, including one for having an open container of alcohol in his vehicle. He paid a fine, lost his driving privileges in Kentucky for 90 days and had to undergo an alcohol assessment program. He also had to enroll in the Reds' Employee Assistance Program, which provides counseling.

Freel declined to answer questions after that case was resolved, but he did release a statement through the Reds the day after he was arrested. It said in part, "I intend to handle this matter in an upright and honest fashion and will do everything in my power to assure that I never again find myself in this situation."

RFS62
01-09-2006, 08:58 AM
It's just like I always say. You cannot mix billiards and sushi.

deltachi8
01-09-2006, 09:06 AM
If he got arrested for domestic violence with his wife, would there be such a ruckus?

I would just drop him if that was the case, but thats just me.

I'll wait for details, but i can say this much, what he did last year (at first glance) was far worse and all he got was a littl tickle on the wrist, so nothing will come of this.

Chip R
01-09-2006, 09:16 AM
Several of you have talked about how we all have gotten drunk and it's no big deal. True. But I doubt many of us have been arrested 2 times in less than a year due to our drinking. Alcohol is a problem if it causes problems in your life, and it is doing that for Ryan.

If I had an employee who was arrested twice for drinking related incidents, I would insist he get help. For two reasons. First it sounds like he/she is on a path where he/she needs it and second because it reflects poorly on my organization.


Couldn't agree more. Once is an an accident twice is a pattern. He may be an alcoholic and having him go to rehab could save his - or someone else's - life. He may not like it now but he may eventually be grateful.

wheels
01-09-2006, 10:33 AM
Being drunk is a character falw. It is a problem. I drink beer, wine, etc, if it goes towards being drunk then there is a deeper issue at work and I am just letting myself go.



Okely Dokely.

WebScorpion
01-09-2006, 10:50 AM
Couldn't agree more. Once is an an accident twice is a pattern. He may be an alcoholic and having him go to rehab could save his - or someone else's - life. He may not like it now but he may eventually be grateful.

Here, here...I'll drink to that! :beerme:
uh....nevermind :evil:

Redsland
01-09-2006, 11:01 AM
Not that The Reds Report needs to toot its own horn or anything, but I'll quickly note that in the 12/20 edition, I broke the news that Womack had been acquired, and that Ryan Freel had started drinking again.

You can look it up.

:thumbup:

REDREAD
01-09-2006, 11:05 AM
Don't see this as a big deal. He got drunk and cursed at some pool hall people. Was too stupid to shut up after the cops showed up (or leave before they showed up).

No reason to cut the guy. And I don't believe the arguement that it will hurt PR because people bring their kids to the game. There's much worse people in pro sports, and it doesn't seem to ever turn the fans away.

Why cut someone for drinking in the offseason?

westofyou
01-09-2006, 11:40 AM
Why cut someone for drinking in the offseason?Yep, they're ballplayers, not saints nor saivors, last time I checked drinking was legal.

Maybe being a jerk is a problem for Freel... maybe he's was drunk and picked the fight with Jimenez at the team party 2 years ago too.

Whatever, baseball and booze have a history that intertwines with each other, one that is much deeper and richer than the one they have hot dogs and crackerjacks, with that history comes knee jerk reactions to bad situations involving booze from both players and fans.

Along with the mandatory dose of rightousness or dismissiveness.

WVRedsFan
01-09-2006, 11:43 AM
Several of you have talked about how we all have gotten drunk and it's no big deal. True. But I doubt many of us have been arrested 2 times in less than a year due to our drinking. Alcohol is a problem if it causes problems in your life, and it is doing that for Ryan.

If I had an employee who was arrested twice for drinking related incidents, I would insist he get help. For two reasons. First it sounds like he/she is on a path where he/she needs it and second because it reflects poorly on my organization.

I don't care if he's a garbage collector or a heart surgeon or a baseball player, it's the right thing to do for Ryan the man, and for the Reds.

Heck I would have been fired, no questions asked, after the first incident.

Amen.

When I accepted the job I have now, it was made very clear to me that management couldn't care less about my private life, unless it effected my job performance. Being a somewhat visable public figure, I had certain responsibilities that could be compromised by my public behavior and that was included. No one was going to invest money with me if I was constantly drunk and disorderly, for instance. Not only would it reflect poorly on me, but the corporation, too.

Ryan is in the same position. He not only has problems, but he is reflecting poorly on the Reds. If your work at say Jones Hardware, you can get by (and that aludes to all the stories of what we've done), but if you're in the public eye, it changes. I would demand he get help supervised by the Reds or cut him. No excuses.

zombie-a-go-go
01-09-2006, 12:07 PM
Being drunk is a character falw.

As is being judgmental. :p:

*snortle*

37red
01-09-2006, 01:19 PM
Yep, he's a baseball player. If he was screaming on the field and acting like a jerk he should get benched. If he's not playing well, it's the coaches job to replace him with someone better. Firing everyone everywhere for what they do on their own time is invasion of privacy. On the job you do your best, when you're at home you do what YOU do at home, not what big brother tells you to do. Get over it, this whole discussion is not about baseball, it's about being judgemental of others life styles. I want everyone here to take blood levels every other day and be on live cam surveilance for 12 months a year. We can constantly evaluate everyones, off the job personal activities, and fire anyone we don't think is living up to our personal standards as well as have them in counciling of our individual choices. This should be interesting don't you think. Let's get started, we can evaluate in alphabetical order........ we better get started.

RedFanAlways1966
01-09-2006, 01:57 PM
Yep, he's a baseball player. If he was screaming on the field and acting like a jerk he should get benched. If he's not playing well, it's the coaches job to replace him with someone better. Firing everyone everywhere for what they do on their own time is invasion of privacy.

I do not agree. Especially if you are a pubic figure (and MLB players are that, like it or not... goes with the BIG salary). There is nothing private about being arrested TWICE IN PUBLIC.

This is not about whether he is religious or moral or anything like that. This is about the dummy getting arrested TWICE in a 9-month period for excessive alcohol consumption. NOT AT HOME. Once in an auto and once on a PUBLIC corner at 3:30 am. There is a huge difference between this and what you describe.

registerthis
01-09-2006, 02:12 PM
He listed unemployed?

You think he knows something we dont?

If you worked for the reds, wouldn't you do the same?

Dom Heffner
01-09-2006, 02:17 PM
What is it about my city? Everything bad happens here. Strawberry, Gooden, Freel, Debra LaFave,the Carolina Panthers cheerleaders - oh wait, those last two were actually good, what am I talking about?

M2
01-09-2006, 02:17 PM
Yep, he's a baseball player. If he was screaming on the field and acting like a jerk he should get benched. If he's not playing well, it's the coaches job to replace him with someone better. Firing everyone everywhere for what they do on their own time is invasion of privacy. On the job you do your best, when you're at home you do what YOU do at home, not what big brother tells you to do. Get over it, this whole discussion is not about baseball, it's about being judgemental of others life styles. I want everyone here to take blood levels every other day and be on live cam surveilance for 12 months a year. We can constantly evaluate everyones, off the job personal activities, and fire anyone we don't think is living up to our personal standards as well as have them in counciling of our individual choices. This should be interesting don't you think. Let's get started, we can evaluate in alphabetical order........ we better get started.

Great post.

919191
01-09-2006, 02:35 PM
Yep, he's a baseball player. If he was screaming on the field and acting like a jerk he should get benched. If he's not playing well, it's the coaches job to replace him with someone better. Firing everyone everywhere for what they do on their own time is invasion of privacy. On the job you do your best, when you're at home you do what YOU do at home, not what big brother tells you to do. Get over it, this whole discussion is not about baseball, it's about being judgemental of others life styles. I want everyone here to take blood levels every other day and be on live cam surveilance for 12 months a year. We can constantly evaluate everyones, off the job personal activities, and fire anyone we don't think is living up to our personal standards as well as have them in counciling of our individual choices. This should be interesting don't you think. Let's get started, we can evaluate in alphabetical order........ we better get started.


I agree. I don't even care about this. If he has a personal problem it isn't my business, and I've never thought his played was compromised by anything other than a lack of self-control, which may factor into his drinking, too. As to making a judgement he has a drinking problem, well, that is a leap. He may, but to decide that based on 2 occurances that may or may not be flukes is premature.

If he can get on base and field decently, I say let it go.

westofyou
01-09-2006, 02:40 PM
If he can get on base and field decently, I say let it go.
The Waner Brothers thank you.

lollipopcurve
01-09-2006, 02:46 PM
Get over it, this whole discussion is not about baseball, it's about being judgemental of others life styles.

Meanwhile, the board is littered with appraisals of this or that major leaguer's skills using terms such as trash, garbage, pile of faeces, etc.

So who gets to judge who?

Freel has been breaking the law. He needs to stop it.

guttle11
01-09-2006, 03:33 PM
Firing everyone everywhere for what they do on their own time is invasion of privacy. On the job you do your best, when you're at home you do what YOU do at home, not what big brother tells you to do. Get over it, this whole discussion is not about baseball, it's about being judgemental of others life styles.

Come on. He got arrested for being drunk and disorderly IN PUBLIC. That is not an evasion of privacy. He is a public figure that represents a franchise that appeals to the public.

What kind of signal does that send to the fans or players in the minors? Go ahead and get arrested, heck, do whatever you want, just make sure you're really fast and play good defense come April.

That is so bogus. You are making this discussion about other things than baseball. If it were just about baseball than cutting the guy would be a viable option. It should be. Suspension at the least. In BASEBALL, you need to show discipline and resolve to follow through.

I have no problem with a guy going home and drinking a few beers now and again. Breaking the law is what I have a problem with, and he has now done it twice in the last year. There needs to be discipline.

Spitball
01-09-2006, 04:12 PM
Yep, he's a baseball player. If he was screaming on the field and acting like a jerk he should get benched. If he's not playing well, it's the coaches job to replace him with someone better. Firing everyone everywhere for what they do on their own time is invasion of privacy. On the job you do your best, when you're at home you do what YOU do at home, not what big brother tells you to do. Get over it, this whole discussion is not about baseball, it's about being judgemental of others life styles. I want everyone here to take blood levels every other day and be on live cam surveilance for 12 months a year. We can constantly evaluate everyones, off the job personal activities, and fire anyone we don't think is living up to our personal standards as well as have them in counciling of our individual choices. This should be interesting don't you think. Let's get started, we can evaluate in alphabetical order........ we better get started.

Well said, 37. Dare I say :drink:

creek14
01-09-2006, 07:25 PM
Wonder if some of you will be so cavalier if next time he’s drunk he gets in a car and kills someone’s kid.

And there will be a next time. He learned nothing from the first time.

deltachi8
01-09-2006, 07:39 PM
Wonder if some of you will be so cavalier if next time he’s drunk he gets in a car and kills someone’s kid.

And there will be a next time. He learned nothing from the first time.

Could not have said any better, Creek.

Scrap Irony
01-09-2006, 08:55 PM
But he wasn't driving. He was, according to Fay's article, in a bar. If this were his second DUI, I'd agree that he needs to be cut/ traded/ et al. However, to say that he "learned nothing" from his first encounter is not necessarily true.

College friends (and some adults I've worked with) have been caught driving under the influence. In each case, they've stopped driving drunk, but not quit drinking.

To say he has a drinking problem? My Magic 8-Ball says, "Check back later."

37red
01-09-2006, 09:01 PM
Creek, I wouldn't want to see anyone die from a careless driver, drunk or on a cell phone, no one would. You suggest that by firing a baseball player or someone else from their job, you will stop such a terrible thing from happening, I think you're simplifying the problem. We have laws in place to discourage people from doing harm to others. Baseball isn't Disney World, it's baseball, it's a competitive game. People go to watch the game to see a talented young team of players out play the other team. We don't go to sporting events to cheer someones life style or judge their intension to not hurt another person. If that was the case we would be paying Sean Casey and Barry Larkin a hefty bonus to represent Cincinnati instead of looking for better baseball players. Adults and kids watching football and hockey players intentionally hit, scream at and boast of crushing another player isn't exactly a good example of how to act. Violence is a major problem all across the country, should we endorse it on the TV supported with advertising, singing God Bless America and having girls in scanty skirts leading cheers as it goes on? Baseball is pretty tame and is upheld on the field with good sportsmanship. If a player has what might be problems at home he should leave them there and so should we. Once again, we have laws to deal with people that are bad, if Freel gets thrown in jail I don't think you'll have to worry about him playing the vicious game of baseball in front of your family. I'm not trying to suggest that drinking and driving is a good thing, it isn't, I used to work in a funeral home, and I understand your concern.

Falls City Beer
01-09-2006, 09:11 PM
But he wasn't driving. He was, according to Fay's article, in a bar. If this were his second DUI, I'd agree that he needs to be cut/ traded/ et al. However, to say that he "learned nothing" from his first encounter is not necessarily true.

College friends (and some adults I've worked with) have been caught driving under the influence. In each case, they've stopped driving drunk, but not quit drinking.

To say he has a drinking problem? My Magic 8-Ball says, "Check back later."


Right. And just a nitpicky little detail: three--not two--establishes a "pattern." ;)

I think lifting and examining with tremendous scrutiny two low moments from anyone's life would reveal a ton of ugliness on the part of each one of us. It's very difficult to argue that it's a pattern at this point, considering how minor the second offense was in all honesty.

For the record, I would be singing a very different tune if he'd been pulled over for drunk driving a second time.

Falls City Beer
01-09-2006, 09:20 PM
I've got a great idea. Maybe the team should buy Freel several cases of his favorite beer and a massage chair. But this time, confiscate the beer.

wheels
01-09-2006, 10:19 PM
:beerme: :all_cohol :drink:

Krusty
01-10-2006, 12:23 AM
Once a drunk, always a drunk.

M2
01-10-2006, 01:28 AM
Wonder if some of you will be so cavalier if next time he’s drunk he gets in a car and kills someone’s kid.

And there will be a next time. He learned nothing from the first time.

Was he driving?

Otherwise what Scrap and FCB said.


Once a drunk, always a drunk.

If I went by the standard of anyone who'd been drunk twice is a drunk then everyone I've ever known is a drunk. My guess, from your past posts about your fondness for beer, is that you'd qualify too.

cincinnati chili
01-10-2006, 01:33 AM
Used to get drunk a lot. Never got arrested, and certainly not twice in one calendar year.

919191
01-10-2006, 01:39 AM
Once a drunk, always a drunk.

You really think so? Noone with a problem can overcome, huh?

WVRedsFan
01-10-2006, 03:19 AM
A lot of this fireball of opinion has more than a lot to do with whether or not you like Ryan Freel the player, IMHO. I like Ryan Freel. At times, I think he goes overboard with his enthusiasm and I also think he's overrated here and other places, but one fact remains. He apparently has a problem with drinking. I've been drunk more than once or twice. I never had a problem because I didn't make a scene or get into fights. Some people do. Freel has embarrassed the Reds twice with this. He needs counseling.

I think I was one of the first to say cut him. I apologize, but I think regardless of his private life, we can expect his off-field behavior to finally effect his on-field behavior sooner or later. Get him help.

But, yeah, let him do what the hades he wants on his free time as long as he gets on base and scores runs. Are you folks freaking for real? I would hope that the Reds do something to help this not-so-much-a-kid-anymore (he's nearly 30). Or maybe I'd led a sheltered life. Or maybe I'm insane. I'm beginning to wonder. Does everyone get drunk all the time these days? Maybe I'm too fricking old to make judgements anymore. If this has become the accepted behavior of today (get drunk, harrass folks, drive drunk, but hey, it's all a good time), maybe I'm out of step. And maybe you don't grow up, have a family and become an adult until 50. It's tough being an old fart.

Jpup
01-10-2006, 03:36 AM
A lot of this fireball of opinion has more than a lot to do with whether or not you like Ryan Freel the player, IMHO. I like Ryan Freel. At times, I think he goes overboard with his enthusiasm and I also think he's overrated here and other places, but one fact remains. He apparently has a problem with drinking. I've been drunk more than once or twice. I never had a problem because I didn't make a scene or get into fights. Some people do. Freel has embarrassed the Reds twice with this. He needs counseling.

I think I was one of the first to say cut him. I apologize, but I think regardless of his private life, we can expect his off-field behavior to finally effect his on-field behavior sooner or later. Get him help.

But, yeah, let him do what the hades he wants on his free time as long as he gets on base and scores runs. Are you folks freaking for real? I would hope that the Reds do something to help this not-so-much-a-kid-anymore (he's nearly 30). Or maybe I'd led a sheltered life. Or maybe I'm insane. I'm beginning to wonder. Does everyone get drunk all the time these days? Maybe I'm too fricking old to make judgements anymore. If this has become the accepted behavior of today (get drunk, harrass folks, drive drunk, but hey, it's all a good time), maybe I'm out of step. And maybe you don't grow up, have a family and become an adult until 50. It's tough being an old fart.


I'm half of 50 and I agree with you man. Different strokes for different folks. I almost think this belongs somewhere besides the baseball board.

So, I will ask, how does this effect things on the field? Does is hurt Ryan's chances of actually starting this season? I don't think he was going to anyway. Will the Reds trade him for some bullpen fodder? Does the organization have a history of dealing with these things in a certain manner?

Chip R
01-10-2006, 07:45 AM
So, I will ask, how does this effect things on the field? Does is hurt Ryan's chances of actually starting this season? I don't think he was going to anyway. Will the Reds trade him for some bullpen fodder? Does the organization have a history of dealing with these things in a certain manner?

Good questions. Especially the last one since in about a week there will be new ownership. They and their people may have different ideas about dealing with situations like this than the current regime does.

Roy Tucker
01-10-2006, 08:51 AM
Yeah, I think there is something going on here with Freel.

Like many have said, once is an accident, twice (or three) is a pattern. I was arrested for D and D when I was in college and one night in the Franklin County drunk tank was enough for a lifetime for me.

A DUI is a stupid and dangerous thing to do. A D and D is plain old stupid. Now, I've done a ton of stupid things in my life and I've gotten drunk more than a few times, but after learning my lesson, I always did manage to stay within the boundaries of the law (and the law does allow a lot of latitude in areas of being drunk and being stupid).

Freel's behavior is coming close (if not already) to affecting his professional life. Freel is in the entertainment biz and therefore a public figure and him getting arrested for public drunkeness is bad for business.

I don't know the specifics of the union agreement, but the Reds may have their hands somewhat tied in this area. If management or a coach can't say anything, I would hope a friend or teammate would suggest at a minimum choosing better places, better friends, and better pasttimes to pursue. And, I would think that alcohol counselling would not be a bad idea.

Krusty
01-10-2006, 09:25 AM
Was he driving?

Otherwise what Scrap and FCB said.



If I went by the standard of anyone who'd been drunk twice is a drunk then everyone I've ever known is a drunk. My guess, from your past posts about your fondness for beer, is that you'd qualify too.

It is one thing to drink beer. It is another thing to drink beer to get drunk.

I stand by what I said.

gonelong
01-10-2006, 09:29 AM
Edit: Nevermind.

GL

919191
01-10-2006, 09:32 AM
So if once a drunk, always a drunk? No chance to change? Then why try?

Krusty
01-10-2006, 09:33 AM
So I guess we have another Billy Martin that plays on the Reds. And we all know how Billy Martin ended his life...crashing his vehicle while he was drunk.

But what if there is a third time and Freel is behind the wheel and kills someone? This goes beyond just playing baseball.

Drinking beer to get your load is an alcoholic. Going out and having a few beers and knowing when to stop is another thing.

M2: To try to compare me to Ryan Freel is beyond disbelief. You don't even know me personally so how can you make that assessment?

Krusty
01-10-2006, 09:35 AM
So if once a drunk, always a drunk? No chance to change? Then why try?

If you're an alcoholic, you are always an alcoholic even when you dry out. Isn't that what they tell everyone when they go to AA? You have to deal with situations that lead you to drink.

Chip R
01-10-2006, 09:40 AM
Easy, folks. Let's keep personal judgements of each other out of here.

919191
01-10-2006, 09:42 AM
Make up your mind what you are saying. A drunk and an alcoholic are not the same thing. A drunk may be but isn't neccessarily an alcoholic, and a recovered alcoholic can still be considered an alcoholic, but may not be a drunk anymore.

M2
01-10-2006, 09:52 AM
It is one thing to drink beer. It is another thing to drink beer to get drunk.

I stand by what I said.

Because you've never been drunk.

As for those who suggest Freel should be forced into counseling, that's a pointless endeavor. A) He might not need it. B) The only way it'll do him an ounce of good is if he goes voluntarily.

I do however agree that someone should smack him in the head and say, "Hey gomer, it's fine if you want to get your load on every now and then, but have the good sense not to get arrested when you do it." Heck, probably everyone he knows ought to do that.

On a separate note, the Reds have seen very few guys jump the rails over the past two decades. It's been a straight arrow franchise. Rob Bell's the only guy I can think of who partied his way out of town (though there may have been others who were less publicized). Until D'Angelo Jiminez you also didn't see anyone take the field and not give a rip. IMO, a lot of that had to do with Barry Larkin. A guy like Jiminez would get the message that a certain amount of effort was expected and required. Perhaps a guy like Freel would also get the message that you best keep your nose clean. One of the things that Larkin did was set a tone and now that he's gone I wonder if we're going to see more guys come unhinged.

MartyFan
01-10-2006, 10:11 AM
M2: I agree that Barry had a lot of influence but this is about personal, individual character. Freel is a big boy and he is the only one acountable for his actions.

M2
01-10-2006, 10:41 AM
So I guess we have another Billy Martin that plays on the Reds. And we all know how Billy Martin ended his life...crashing his vehicle while he was drunk.

But what if there is a third time and Freel is behind the wheel and kills someone? This goes beyond just playing baseball.

Drinking beer to get your load is an alcoholic. Going out and having a few beers and knowing when to stop is another thing.

M2: To try to compare me to Ryan Freel is beyond disbelief. You don't even know me personally so how can you make that assessment?

A) Billy Martin was blasted and/or in a scrap every day of his life. Freel's not even another Pete Rose yet, let alone another Billy Martin.

B) What if anyone gets behind the wheel of a car and kills someone? Seeing that Freel wasn't driving here, I don't see what this has to do with that. As far as we know he has learned that lesson.

C) All I'm saying is that Freel's been drunk twice as far as you know. I'm willing to wager you've been drunk a lot more than twice (pretty much everyone has). So, following your logic, that would make just about everyone an alcoholic. What's beyond disbelief to me is that you feel qualified to assess the guy's personal life based on two incidents.

westofyou
01-10-2006, 10:44 AM
Good lord, I hope none of you ever pick up We played the Game" the main theme about being a Reds player in the fifties was baseball, family and beer, lot's of it and the best and most popular drinker on the team was Nuxhall.

Who, according to many here is a raging, walking and talking alchololic.

Krusty
01-10-2006, 11:01 AM
Make up your mind what you are saying. A drunk and an alcoholic are not the same thing. A drunk may be but isn't neccessarily an alcoholic, and a recovered alcoholic can still be considered an alcoholic, but may not be a drunk anymore.

If you can't control your drinking, does that make you an alcoholic?

Krusty
01-10-2006, 11:05 AM
A) Billy Martin was blasted and/or in a scrap every day of his life. Freel's not even another Pete Rose yet, let alone another Billy Martin.

B) What if anyone gets behind the wheel of a car and kills someone? Seeing that Freel wasn't driving here, I don't see what this has to do with that. As far as we know he has learned that lesson.

C) All I'm saying is that Freel's been drunk twice as far as you know. I'm willing to wager you've been drunk a lot more than twice (pretty much everyone has). So, following your logic, that would make just about everyone an alcoholic. What's beyond disbelief to me is that you feel qualified to assess the guy's personal life based on two incidents.

Wait one minute. I might have been drunk a few times in my 45 years but NEVER have I been arrested for drunk driving or disorderly conduct. When you have someone busted twice for driving under the infulence and disorderly conduct, that should raise a red flag that there is a problem.

Do I see a problem with Freel? You bet when the law has to step in. When you're drinking results in you getting arrested, that is a problem.

M2
01-10-2006, 11:18 AM
Wait one minute. I might have been drunk a few times in my 45 years but NEVER have I been arrested for drunk driving or disorderly conduct. When you have someone busted twice for driving under the infulence and disorderly conduct, that should raise a red flag that there is a problem.

Do I see a problem with Freel? You bet when the law has to step in. When you're drinking results in you getting arrested, that is a problem.

Well, it's stupid, I'll grant you that, but being an alcoholic has nothing to do with getting arrested and everything to do with booze.

There's a gulf between someone who does stupid stuff when they drink and an alcoholic. For instance, my ex was a grade A moron when she got wasted (turned her into a hyperactive spider monkey), but she couldn't have been farther from being an alcoholic. Meanwhile my mom's as upstanding a citizen as you'll find, but she used to suck down the vino like it was going out of style before she got into the program.

For all we know Freel's on a learning curve. Some people need to make mistakes before they clue in. Hopefully last spring he learned never to drink and drive again and hopefully this week he learned that driving isn't the only idiotic thing you can do when you're drunk.

Krusty
01-10-2006, 11:27 AM
Well, it's stupid, I'll grant you that, but being an alcoholic has nothing to do with getting arrested and everything to do with booze.

There's a gulf between someone who does stupid stuff when they drink and an alcoholic. For instance, my ex was a grade A moron when she got wasted (turned her into a hyperactive spider monkey), but she couldn't have been farther from being an alcoholic. Meanwhile my mom's as upstanding a citizen as you'll find, but she used to suck down the vino like it was going out of style before she got into the program.

For all we know Freel's on a learning curve. Some people need to make mistakes before they clue in. Hopefully last spring he learned never to drink and drive again and hopefully this week he learned that driving isn't the only idiotic thing you can do when you're drunk.

Didn't the Reds front office had a sit down with Freel the first time and discussed the problem? So less than a year later he goes out and has the same problem again? Seems to me if the Reds don't take some action (get him some help under the Employee Assistance Program) and/or discipline him, they will have an image problem especially when they are struggling now being the number 2 team after the Bengals.

westofyou
01-10-2006, 11:35 AM
they will have an image problemOh please, do the Braves have an "Image Problem" thanks to A.J.'s trips to the Gold Club and Furcal's DUI arrests?

The real image problem is already there, a guy getting booked for D&D is hardly a problem for a PRO sports team, this isn't college ball.

lollipopcurve
01-10-2006, 11:38 AM
For all we know Freel's on a learning curve. Some people need to make mistakes before they clue in. Hopefully last spring he learned never to drink and drive again and hopefully this week he learned that driving isn't the only idiotic thing you can do when you're drunk.

Alcohol can get you into lots of trouble lots of ways. If all he knows is that DUI is bad and D & D is bad, then that learning curve still stretches for years.

People will judge as they will judge. Those who proclaim a nonjudgmental view of the matter should put themselves in the shoes of Freel's bosses. Would you mandate corrective action for Freel, or would you lob him the ole, "Have you learned from this, Ryan?" Or, "Say you're sorry, Ryan"?

In my view, it appears he hasn't responded to two very powerful corrective forces -- public humiliation and the birth of his first child (if memory serves). In light of that, there's a very good chance he wouldn't respond to counseling either.

But I'd mandate it anyway, because he's a valuable asset. Meanwhile, I'd put him on the trade block to see if he can fetch some good pitching back.

M2
01-10-2006, 11:40 AM
Didn't the Reds front office had a sit down with Freel the first time and discussed the problem? So less than a year later he goes out and has the same problem again? Seems to me if the Reds don't take some action (get him some help under the Employee Assistance Program) and/or discipline him, they will have an image problem especially when they are struggling now being the number 2 team after the Bengals.

First off, anyone who knows squat about alcoholism can tell you that a "sit down" is just about the biggest waste of time in the world. So, if Freel were an alcoholic, that would have meant approximately nothing.

Second, this isn't the same problem. He wasn't endagering anyone's life. He was being loud. Yes, booze was involved in both cases, but this is nowhere near the same level of offense.

Third, I'm all for anyone and everyone telling him not to be an idiot.

Fourth, the Bengals? Didn't the Steelers just pop that soap bubble? :devil:

Fifth, the drinking and driving didn't create an image problem for him and this sure as hell won't. Ryan's scrappy. Cincinnati loves Pete Rose, which pretty much leaves you wide open for public affection up to and possibly including manslaughter.

Sixth, what the Reds should do is not get involved in their employees' personal lives. Freel's got a family and that's who should be handling this if he's truly got a problem.

registerthis
01-10-2006, 03:08 PM
Cincinnati loves Pete Rose, which pretty much leaves you wide open for public affection up to and possibly including manslaughter.

That's becoming less and less true...

37red
01-10-2006, 03:44 PM
M2 speaks volumes in his posts. Freel has not damaged the image of the Reds, they do enough of that by themselves. He by his actions and getting caught, has affected his personal image. If he was a .375 hitter no one would be discussing if he should be fired.

SteelSD
01-10-2006, 03:48 PM
Fifth, the drinking and driving didn't create an image problem for him and this sure as hell won't.

Agreed. D & D is a "candy from baby" charge. In many cases, it's the equivalent of getting a parking ticket for simply having had some drinks before getting near a police officer who's got nothing better to do.

Heck, I've even been cited for it once. A guy I'd floored in self-defense tracked me from the original bar to one down the street half an hour after the initial altercation. The moment I saw him I told the bartender to call the cops. Cops got there after the guy tried to jump me again and then he starts fighting the cops. I jump up, unscathed, and explain exactly what happened. And I was completely lucid.

So I get cited for D & D for the SECOND incident where I threw no punch, had witnesses to that effect, and actually told the bartender to call the cops in hopes of preventing the altercation entirely. The initial altercation? Nothing. Nada. Even confirmed that with the State's Attorney by phone. I just laughed and paid the fine (which was less than either of the two speeding tickets I've had in my lifetime).

Didn't go out looking for a fight. Didn't even go out to get all loopy. Finished a fight someone else started and tried to prevent a repeat. Drunk and disorderly. Same charge they gave the other guy even after he resisted arrest. Go figure. If that ever happens again, I'll have to remember to punch myself in the face and then rub some blood on the other guy's jacket. Maybe then I won't have to pay all of $67.00 for getting jumped by some drunk who thought I looked at his girl wrong at some point after his fifth pitcher of beer. I dunno.

Now I don't know what Freel did. If it's on the thread, I must have missed it. Dunno' if what he did was noble, neutral, or otherwise. But knowing what I know about that charge, I really couldn't care less.

Puffy
01-10-2006, 04:01 PM
Gawd, who cares?

If Ryan Freel has a problem with alcohol then that is something he needs to deal with. His friends, family and those closest to him need to assess the situation and determine if they need to step up and slap him upside the head.

But to say he should be cut, or traded, or released from a bunch of people who know him not at all - but hey, he plays for my team, whoopty do - is just plain stupid.

If you have concerns (like the lovely Ms. Creek) about his potential to do harm, thats fine - but to make judgments about what the Reds should do is ridiculous.

Heck, me and Zombie were smashed three straight nights at the gathering - are you guys gonna kick us off the board now cause we embarrassed the community? Are we drunks (well, maybe I shouldn't ask this question) because we drank three straight days?

So many people judging others - amazing.

M2
01-10-2006, 04:10 PM
Are we drunks (well, maybe I shouldn't ask this question) because we drank three straight days?

At ages 28 and 29 I believe I went out every night between Memorial Day and Labor Day. Now, I didn't get drunk every night. That would have required a lot of work and no small outlay of cash, but I probably had a drink most every night in those two summers - with the exception of the two-week period in 1995 after a particularly bad melange of drinks turned me green (literally), then I sucked down ginger ale for two weeks.

pedro
01-10-2006, 04:12 PM
I say let's give him some props for not being in a strip club......

pedro
01-10-2006, 04:13 PM
Unless... do they have naked pool halls in Florida Puffy?

Doc. Scott
01-10-2006, 04:23 PM
Fifth, the drinking and driving didn't create an image problem for him and this sure as hell won't. Ryan's scrappy. Cincinnati loves Pete Rose, which pretty much leaves you wide open for public affection up to and possibly including manslaughter.


Once you've endeared yourself to the Cincinnati fanbase, they're loyal to you. Once you've gotten on the (crap) List, there's little you can do. And the fans are partial, and more forgiving, towards people who they perceive as like them- which is why I think often about how Chad Johnson is just a couple of bad-timing/placement incidents away from being Cincinnati's version of Terrell Owens. But I don't want to take the conversation in that direction.

Although it's taken a really, really long time, I think the city has found the right way to regard Rose- that of a great player who was a central figure in the franchise's greatest run and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but not someone who should be trusted in an organizational position of any kind.

Freel isn't likely to be around for more than a couple more years, but as long as he keeps playing at the level he's at and he doesn't do something else *in Cincinnati* like he did last Opening Day, I think he can be as big an idiot as he wants without suffering overmuch in the fans' eyes.

It certainly could happen; until very recently, one of my friends used to live across the street (on Main) from the bar from where Freel was supposedly commonly ejected on a regular basis over the past couple of years. If the Reds don't twist his arm in some fashion, we could be reading about more incidents in the future.

Puffy
01-10-2006, 04:24 PM
Unless... do they have naked pool halls in Florida Puffy?

No, but the Doll House does have pool tables - is that the same thing?

lollipopcurve
01-10-2006, 04:26 PM
If you have concerns (like the lovely Ms. Creek) about his potential to do harm, thats fine - but to make judgments about what the Reds should do is ridiculous.

Why? If Freel has a drinking problem, it will eventually affect how he plays. For all we know, his drinking may have already curtailed a career that could have had Freel a top leadoff guy in the majors since the age of 25, instead of his having emerged as a 6-year minor league free agent at the age of 27-28.

It's well-known the Red Sox dumped Derek Lowe because of concerns about his partying lifestyle. If Freel is caught in some kind of pattern of self-destructive behavior -- and signs indicate this may be true, though we are only speculating -- it only makes sense for his employer to look for opportunities to exchange him for a player/players of equal value who do not carry that baggage.

Not that this should be O'Brien's main criterion for looking to deal Freel -- he's a nice bargaining chip for pitching whether he's on the wagon or off.

Puffy
01-10-2006, 04:34 PM
Why? If Freel has a drinking problem, it will eventually affect how he plays. For all we know, his drinking may have already curtailed a career that could have had Freel a top leadoff guy in the majors since the age of 25, instead of his having emerged as a 6-year minor league free agent at the age of 27-28.

It's well-known the Red Sox dumped Derek Lowe because of concerns about his partying lifestyle. If Freel is caught in some kind of pattern of self-destructive behavior -- and signs indicate this may be true, though we are only speculating -- it only makes sense for his employer to look for opportunities to exchange him for a player/players of equal value who do not carry that baggage.

Not that this should be O'Brien's main criterion for looking to deal Freel -- he's a nice bargaining chip for pitching whether he's on the wagon or off.

Again - why? How do you have any clue that this is affecting his playing? He has had two spates and neither has come in the regular season. So how can you possibly say that it has been affecting his play?

Mickey Mantle was 100 times the boozer that Freel probably is and it didn't affect him. I have never saw any evidence that it has affected Freel. He doesn't have major league talent, thats why it took him so long to get there, so how can booze be harming him? He has already exceeded all expectations, yet here he is.

This is just another example of people disagreeing with a lifestyle and then using it out of context. Ryan Freel is a fine baseball player. Gives it his all full time. Why can't we leave it at that?

Chip R
01-10-2006, 04:38 PM
I say let's give him some props for not being in a strip club......

I'm sure that sushi was naked.

37red
01-10-2006, 04:40 PM
After all of this I've got to have a beer, Spitball, M2, Puffy, Zombie---- I'll buy, someone else drives, let's go!! I've got to be back in time for work tomorrow.

Puffy
01-10-2006, 04:40 PM
I'm sure that sushi was naked.


I saw Sushi at the Show and Tail last Friday. She was awesome, but used too many props (rice, chopsticks, soy sauce)

Spitball
01-10-2006, 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by Puffy
If you have concerns (like the lovely Ms. Creek) about his potential to do harm, thats fine - but to make judgments about what the Reds should do is ridiculous.

Exactly, outside of offering counseling, the Reds can't and shouldn't do a thing. This incident did not occur during the season and in no way affected his job with the organization. It may have been an embarrassment, but so has been the performance of the front office.

Ryan Freel got caught. If anyone thinks that only those who get caught are the only ones doing something harmful, they are, in all likelyhood, mistaken.

lollipopcurve
01-10-2006, 04:45 PM
This is just another example of people disagreeing with a lifestyle and then using it out of context.

Nope. As Reds fans, we want Reds players to be in the best possible playing shape they can be in -- so when players get out of shape (Kearns, Graves, Jimenez, etc.) we get concerned. When players are reported not to exhibit a good work ethic, we decry their reported behavior. When/If players are showing up with hangovers, we're going to object to it. It is not out of context in the least.


How do you have any clue that this is affecting his playing? He has had two spates and neither has come in the regular season. So how can you possibly say that it has been affecting his play?

Never said it was affecting his play. Said for all we know, it may have been. If you don't think a pattern of heavy drinking would affect how a major league player performs on the field, I think you're wrong. Not saying this is Freel's case, but I'm saying it's possible it's Freel's case. If we are to believe Doc's post, it's simply more evidence that concern is warranted.

Redsland
01-10-2006, 04:46 PM
I saw Sushi at the Show and Tail last Friday. She was awesome, but used too many props (rice, chopsticks, soy sauce)
I hate that music she dances to. It sounds like a banjo that's badly in need of a tune.

:)

lollipopcurve
01-10-2006, 05:03 PM
Curious day-night OPS numbers for Ry-guy:

2003: day - .674
night - .831

2004: day - .849
night - .682

2005: day - .891
night - .674

There goes the hangover theory, I guess. But he can't seem to get away from a kind of Jekyll and Hyde thing. Geez, man, level out.

919191
01-10-2006, 05:50 PM
Dick Butkus had a quote- this is probably not exact but it went something like "in a third and short situation, I'll take the whiskey drinkers over the milk drinkers any day".

If Freel has a problemit is his problem, and if he can play, he can play.

37red
01-10-2006, 05:52 PM
9191, if I didn't invite you along before we're all heading down to the bar to play some pool and suck some suds, you're welcome to come along.

gonelong
01-10-2006, 05:56 PM
Dick Butkus had a quote- this is probably not exact but it went something like "in a third and short situation, I'll take the whiskey drinkers over the milk drinkers any day".

Yep.

Generally, I don't trust the judgement of someone that won't sit down and have a drink occasionally anymore than I trust the judgement of someone that won't sit down and not have a drink occasionally.

GL

/special cases & situations nonwithstanding

RedFanAlways1966
01-10-2006, 06:01 PM
Curious day-night OPS numbers for Ry-guy:

2004: day - .849
night - .682

2005: day - .891
night - .674

Kinda scary when you see that the REDS play only 33.95% of their 2006 games (55G) during the daytime.

westofyou
01-10-2006, 06:04 PM
Kinda scary when you see that the REDS play only 33.95% of their 2006 games (55G) during the daytime.
Nah, the Reds dragged baseball into the reality of night baseball, it's one thing they should be proud of being a part of... that's an "image" not things like Freels arrest the other night.

Otherwise Cesar Cedeno never would have been a Red.

Eric_Davis
01-11-2006, 05:48 PM
Once was a mistake. Twice is starting to form a pattern and indicate a problem.

Reds need to provide a little tough love and insist he get help.

Once means that he only got caught once...twice means he's just plain stupid.