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LawFive
01-08-2006, 10:47 PM
per Marc...


http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/


In the fold

Rich Aurilia will be back with the Reds this season. He agreed tonight to a one-year, $1.3 million deal that also carries a mutual option for 2007 at $2 million. Not sure about a buyout.

That's a pretty good rate for the Reds, considering the market. Now we'll see if the roster stays put or this is a precursor to another deal.

KronoRed
01-08-2006, 10:50 PM
Opening day lineup

2B Womack
SS Lopez
1b Dunn
CF JR
3B Aurilia
RF Kearns
CF Pena
C LaRue


Yay.

M2
01-08-2006, 10:50 PM
It's official, Dan O'Brien's an idiot. When you can get a draft pick for Rich Aurilia, you take a draft pick for Rich Aurilia.

westofyou
01-08-2006, 10:51 PM
It's official, Dan O'Brien's an idiot. When you can get a draft pick for Rich Aurilia, you take a draft pick for Rich Aurilia.
He's playing checkers and everyone else is playing chess.

RosieRed
01-08-2006, 10:52 PM
It's official, Dan O'Brien's an idiot. When you can get a draft pick for Rich Aurilia, you take a draft pick for Rich Aurilia.

The Womack signing made his idiocy official for me. :dunno:

KronoRed
01-08-2006, 10:52 PM
Dan O probably thinks he got Rich over someone else

Truth being..nobody else wanted him.

Over Womack? Good

Over Free?l Nope

Over EE? Downright criminal.

Ron Madden
01-08-2006, 10:53 PM
I hope and pray that EE gets off to a good start.:bang:

westofyou
01-08-2006, 10:53 PM
Freel's night on the town helped this come to be.

wheels
01-08-2006, 10:54 PM
This is one of my worst days ever as a sports fan.

:bang: :rolleyes: :( :angry: :help: :explode: :yikes: :barf: :rant2: :runawaycr :obrien:

KronoRed
01-08-2006, 10:54 PM
I hope and pray that EE gets off to a good start.:bang:
My money is he doesn't get a chance, like Lopez last year Rich will be given the job right off the bat.

FlyingPig
01-08-2006, 10:56 PM
I'd like to take this opportunity to make the statement that I ain't happy about this..

:bang:

RosieRed
01-08-2006, 10:56 PM
Dan O probably thinks he got Rich over someone else

Truth being..nobody else wanted him.

And that is the truth.

:help:

M2
01-08-2006, 10:58 PM
In separate news, Doc Scott has just gone out to buy a bag of pretzels.

cincinnati chili
01-08-2006, 11:01 PM
How did the firings go, Mr. Castellini?

letsgojunior
01-08-2006, 11:04 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Phhhl
01-08-2006, 11:07 PM
And, the day goes from horribly bad to catastrophic. This team cannot be saved from it's front office.

wheels
01-08-2006, 11:10 PM
Worst.

General Manager.

Ever.

realreds1
01-08-2006, 11:11 PM
Man, about this signing... I hate to say it, but I'm having a tough time getting excited about this coming season. Maybe I'll be ready to go by March, but it just seems like the season's over before it begins. Yick.

Caseyfan21
01-08-2006, 11:11 PM
Another solid move by DanO. Our infield depth is sure something isn't it? :rolleyes:

Reds4Life
01-08-2006, 11:12 PM
We all knew this moment was coming, but it doesn't make it any easier. Disgusting, if O'Brien isn't fired before the end of this month the Reds are beyond hope.

This weekend has been sports hell for Cincinnati fans, the only thing that can ease the pain is a UC win tomorrow night at UConn. :(

wheels
01-08-2006, 11:15 PM
Man, about this signing... I hate to say it, but I'm having a tough time getting excited about this coming season. Maybe I'll be ready to go by March, but it just seems like the season's over before it begins. Yick.


Yah Think?:laugh:

Ron Madden
01-08-2006, 11:17 PM
We'll probably lose Olmedo now.

I'd rather take my chances with Olmedo and Bergolla than run Womack and Aurillia out there.:help:

Patrick Bateman
01-08-2006, 11:18 PM
I'm guessing that the Reds agreed to this deal as a standing offer to get Aurilla to reject arbitration. It just doesn't make any sense otherwise. Why wouldn't Aurilla just accept arbitration and get $3M plus likely? I'm thinking that the offer of arbitration was conditional upon his rejection and the standing offer. That way, if there was a market for Aurilla, we get a draft pick, if not we get him pretty cheaply.

I'm guessing if we were sure we could get a draft pick, we would have taken that route. Or at least I hope do.

Scrap Irony
01-08-2006, 11:19 PM
Ridiculous signing.

Draft pick and Olmedo are far, far better, at this point, than Aurillia.

If we can see this, why can't he?

Hell, the rest of baseball sees it, too.

Only DOB.

Sigh.

wheels
01-08-2006, 11:20 PM
I'm guessing that the Reds agreed to this deal as a standing offer to get Aurilla to reject arbitration. It just doesn't make any sense otherwise. Why wouldn't Aurilla just accept arbitration and get $3M plus likely? I'm thinking that the offer of arbitration was conditional upon his rejection and the standing offer. That way, if there was a market for Aurilla, we get a draft pick, if not we get him pretty cheaply.

I'm guessing if we were sure we could get a draft pick, we would have taken that route. Or at least I hope do.

Honestly, at this point I really don't care.

The reality is that he'll be in a Reds uniform taking at bats away from players that can actually help.

And probably doing worse job of it than last year.

traderumor
01-08-2006, 11:23 PM
In DanO World, he is sitting there sipping Scotch, leaning back in his highback, figuring he just saved the team $700K rather than figuring he just punted $1.3M and a draft pick for another year of whining, poor range, and "veteran presence." Way to go buddy. :thumbup:

wheels
01-08-2006, 11:24 PM
In DanO World, he is sitting there sipping Scotch, leaning back in his highback, figuring he just saved the team $700K rather than figuring he just punted $1.3M and a draft pick for another year of whining, poor range, and "veteran presence." Way to go buddy. :thumbup:

:laugh:

You rock.

KronoRed
01-08-2006, 11:26 PM
How did the firings go, Mr. Castellini?
Why do I get the feeling he approved this?

reds44
01-08-2006, 11:28 PM
UNBELIEVEABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have actually gotten worse this offseason!

pedro
01-08-2006, 11:28 PM
well, I doubt the Reds would have gotten a draft pick, b/c I don't think anyone else would have signed him. I sure didn't hear a single rumor of anybody having any interest in him.

what this does mean to me is that either Freel, Kearns, or Pena will be traded for pitching before the new ownership group takes over.

letsgojunior
01-08-2006, 11:29 PM
In DanO World, he is sitting there sipping Scotch, leaning back in his highback, figuring he just saved the team $700K rather than figuring he just punted $1.3M and a draft pick for another year of whining, poor range, and "veteran presence." Way to go buddy. :thumbup:

Don't forget that he is color coding his binder by putting new subject dividers in.

Unassisted
01-08-2006, 11:29 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=redsaurilia&prov=st&type=lgns

Reds beat deadline, re-sign IF Aurilia
January 8, 2006

CINCINNATI (Ticker) - The Cincinnati Reds re-signed infielder Rich Aurilia to a one-year contract Sunday, just a few hours before a deadline that would have signaled the end of his tenure with the club.

Financial terms of the deal, which includes a mutual option for 2007, were not disclosed, but Aurilia made $600,000 last year.

Signed to a minor league contract last January, the 34-year-old Aurilia was a pleasant surprise for the Reds, hitting .262 with 14 homers and 68 RBI in 114 appearances. Aurilia got off to a slow start but hit .306 after returning from a hamstring injury in May.

He started 64 games at second base, but also made appearances at third base and shortstop.

Aurilia rejected the Reds's offer of arbitration in December, meaning he had until midnight EST to re-sign with Cincinnati. If he did not re-sign by the deadline, Aurilia would not be able to sign with the Reds until May 1.

In 1,231 games with San Francisco, Seattle, San Diego and Cincinnati, Aurilia has hit .276 with 146 homers and 585 RBI. He enjoyed his best season in 2001, when he was named to the All-Star team and set career highs with a .324 average, 37 homers and 97 RBI for the Giants.

pedro
01-08-2006, 11:30 PM
UNBELIEVEABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have actually gotten worse this offseason!


I don't know about that. I still plead that losing casey is addition by subtraction. nonetheless, i certainly don;t think they've done squat to get better either.

KronoRed
01-08-2006, 11:30 PM
Of course that pitching will either be washed up junk or a single A pitcher who may help when our "crafty vets" are doing the autograph shows.

reds44
01-08-2006, 11:32 PM
I don't know about that. I still plead that losing casey is addition by subtraction. nonetheless, i certainly don;t think they've done squat to get better either.

So did I. Until I saw how we are spending Casey's money.

KronoRed
01-08-2006, 11:33 PM
I honestly can't wait to hear what Dan O and Narron say about this, I expect to see the full range..from crafty vet to knows how to play the game right.

:explode:

pedro
01-08-2006, 11:36 PM
So did I. Until I saw how we are spending Casey's money.


*If* Narron is smart enough to put the best 8 men on the field each day, then most days that won't include Aurilia or Womack. Unfortuneatley I'm not very hopeful that he is that smart.

marcshoe
01-08-2006, 11:37 PM
We'll probably lose Olmedo now.

I'd rather take my chances with Olmedo and Bergolla than run Womack and Aurillia out there.:help:

Run Womack and Aurilia out there? Don't you mean wheel? :bang:

This is too much. 11 or 12 days until the ownership changes. If nothing else changes then, . . .

Reds4Life
01-08-2006, 11:37 PM
I honestly can't wait to hear what Dan O and Narron say about this, I expect to see the full range..from crafty vet to knows how to play the game right.

:explode:

I can't wait until I hear "Cincinnati Reds GM Dan O'Brien was relieved of his duties today amid a front office shake up"

BoydsOfSummer
01-08-2006, 11:44 PM
I'm just gonna compare everything Obie does to the Womack deal. Since everything else will look good in comparison,it will help me rationalize and maybe my chest will stop constricting.

Heath
01-08-2006, 11:54 PM
Let's even look at the WORST CASE SCENARIO -

There's a MUTUAL OPTION FOR 2007.

:bang: :bang: :bang:

Ok - here's the deal - RA hits .230/8/24 Makes errors out the wazoo. Do you think he'll take the MUTUAL option?

This contract isn't even tradable.

Currently, GAC's avatar is really the picture of this franchise. On a night where some Reds fans are also Bengal fans, you might as well ask for a "do over" today.

jmcclain - get your hiney off the honeymoon couch and to the website. Your army of loyal web servants awaits.

oh for the love of it - what the heck - more of these are needed...

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Falls City Beer
01-08-2006, 11:57 PM
You know, in this life--you're not required to suck. Really. You've got a choice. You can change.

Unassisted
01-09-2006, 12:05 AM
I can't wait until I hear "Cincinnati Reds GM Dan O'Brien was relieved of his duties today amid a front office shake up"If anyone currently or soon-to-be above DanO objected to the signing, they had over a month to make that known to him. I would therefore figure that the new ownership unofficially blessed it.

M2
01-09-2006, 12:08 AM
Heath, I could be wrong about this, but I think both sides have to agree to the option for it to kick in. I don 't think Aurilia can force the Reds to take him in 2007 if they don't want him.

M2
01-09-2006, 12:09 AM
You know, in this life--you're not required to suck. Really. You've got a choice. You can change.

Truer words were never spoken.

Heath
01-09-2006, 12:19 AM
Heath, I could be wrong about this, but I think both sides have to agree to the option for it to kick in. I don 't think Aurilia can force the Reds to take him in 2007 if they don't want him.


You know, M2 - I got my info from espn.com - maybe there was a misprint on the wire.....

:pray:

Oh, hey, btw - how's Adam Dunn's LTC working out?

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

Heath
01-09-2006, 12:20 AM
If anyone currently or soon-to-be above DanO objected to the signing, they had over a month to make that known to him. I would therefore figure that the new ownership unofficially blessed it.

It might be the "Freel Factor"

KronoRed
01-09-2006, 12:39 AM
Oh, hey, btw - how's Adam Dunn's LTC working out?

I can just imagine.

Dunn's agent: Here is what we want
Dan O: WHOA! I could get 10 Aurilia's for this...WHAT A GREAT IDEA!

Chip R
01-09-2006, 01:01 AM
Let's even look at the WORST CASE SCENARIO -

There's a MUTUAL OPTION FOR 2007.

:bang: :bang: :bang:

Ok - here's the deal - RA hits .230/8/24 Makes errors out the wazoo. Do you think he'll take the MUTUAL option?



Just peachy. We'll have to go through this again next year. Just like I said in the HSL report, 2006, the year of the crappy utility middle infielders. :thumbdown

johngalt
01-09-2006, 01:20 AM
Freel's night on the town helped this come to be.

Unfortunately, I highly doubt that.

Heath
01-09-2006, 01:27 AM
Heath, I could be wrong about this, but I think both sides have to agree to the option for it to kick in. I don 't think Aurilia can force the Reds to take him in 2007 if they don't want him.


espn.com just changed it - it originally said "his mutual option".

It now reports - "mutual option".

I will have to say this - he must be desparate. He took a 700k cut in pay.

westofyou
01-09-2006, 01:31 AM
Unfortunately, I highly doubt that.

Perhaps,not just last night but a greater pattern of his behavior off the field (beyond what we as fans know) plus his Bip Roberts fragility plus the Reds not liking his infield defense enough make the collection of middle infielders more believable.

What's hard to believe is the players that they decided to collect and how long and how much time and energy they spent in pursuit if them.

If I woke up with the Reds as my team tomorrow for the first time I'd chew my arm off and get the hell out of there,

REDREAD
01-09-2006, 01:38 AM
Come on guys, it's not the end of the world.

My prediction is that Freel spends a lot of time in the OF and Womack/Aurillia battle for 2b. Considering that Womack was going to be our 2b, it's not bad to have a middle infielder that can hit a little bit off the bench.

Sorry, I know everyone wants Freel to be the starting 2b, but we're going to need him a lot as a 4th OF. Kearns, Jr, and Pena are all somewhat fragile.

Naturally, Aurillia isn't the greatest choice in the world for a backup infielder, but our options are limited based on our place in the standings and what money we have to offer. I'm not sure we could do better for 1.3 million. If they want to carry Bergollia or Olmedo as a glove guy, they still have roster room to do that.

Heath
01-09-2006, 01:42 AM
Come on guys, it's not the end of the world.

My prediction is that Freel spends a lot of time in the OF and Womack/Aurillia battle for 2b. Considering that Womack was going to be our 2b, it's not bad to have a middle infielder that can hit a little bit off the bench.

Sorry, I know everyone wants Freel to be the starting 2b, but we're going to need him a lot as a 4th OF. Kearns, Jr, and Pena are all somewhat fragile.

Naturally, Aurillia isn't the greatest choice in the world for a backup infielder, but our options are limited based on our place in the standings and what money we have to offer. I'm not sure we could do better for 1.3 million. If they want to carry Bergollia or Olmedo as a glove guy, they still have roster room to do that.

But the real reason of the angst is two fold -

One-he's a whiny vet who will take AB's from EdE, stunting his progress.
Two-He's a "me-first" player who will not accept his role.

Best case scenario (as I see it now) its a 2-headed monster at 2B of RA and Woemack (sic).

But, hey - thanks for the first line. Now, I've got this REM song in my mind...and I feel fine :D

Aronchis
01-09-2006, 02:10 AM
I doubt Rich would have netted the Reds any draft pick. Nobody was going to sign him. DanO loves him, a man mans type. Let him have his fun, he won't be GMing much longer.

I doubt he "steals" much from EE. Considering age and Freel's injury history, I suspect nice DL stints for all of them.

schroomytunes
01-09-2006, 02:12 AM
I don't really mind the Aurilia signing, at 1.3million I think that's a bargain. I think he provides good insurance at 2b/3b/ss in that order. I dont want him starting unless its at 2nd. We can still carry Olmedo as the 2nd/ss 25th man. our non pitching roster looks to be set:

rf-Kearns
cf-griffey
lf-pena/dunn
3b-ee
ss-lopez
2nd-aurilia
1st-dunn/pena
c-larue

backups:
c-valentin
of-freel
inf-olmedo,womack
last spot coul be cruz,denorfia, or other FA pickup

RedsManRick
01-09-2006, 02:20 AM
While I'm not fan of the move, any move that puts another guy between Womack and a start at 2B is good in my book.

wheels
01-09-2006, 02:25 AM
Don't look now, but I'm counting at least three 25th men.

How many more can DanO add?

Topcat
01-09-2006, 02:43 AM
I am truly discusted by this move. I wanted the Draft pick bad. This signing does no good at all.

M2
01-09-2006, 03:04 AM
Come on guys, it's not the end of the world.

My prediction is that Freel spends a lot of time in the OF and Womack/Aurillia battle for 2b. Considering that Womack was going to be our 2b, it's not bad to have a middle infielder that can hit a little bit off the bench.

Sorry, I know everyone wants Freel to be the starting 2b, but we're going to need him a lot as a 4th OF. Kearns, Jr, and Pena are all somewhat fragile.

Naturally, Aurillia isn't the greatest choice in the world for a backup infielder, but our options are limited based on our place in the standings and what money we have to offer. I'm not sure we could do better for 1.3 million. If they want to carry Bergollia or Olmedo as a glove guy, they still have roster room to do that.

Of course it's not the end of the world, but it is Dan O'Brien undoing the only smart thing he'd ever done as GM of the Reds. It's stupid roster management and it's disgusting that we've had to endure this.

Doc. Scott
01-09-2006, 04:02 AM
In separate news, Doc Scott has just gone out to buy a bag of pretzels.


Well, the good thing is that I can keep my salt lick.

Jpup
01-09-2006, 04:43 AM
:bowrofl: :obrien:

the only word I can think of is:

Embarrassing

Jpup
01-09-2006, 05:05 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2285181

Aurilia's deal contains a $2 million mutual option for 2007. If he has 400 plate appearances this year, a $100,000 buyout would kick in if the option is declined. If he has 450 plate appearances, the buyout amount would increase to $200,000.

KronoRed
01-09-2006, 05:22 AM
He'll get those numbers.

Guys..he's going to play a ton..we have a manager and GM in love with past success and afraid of unproven kids, we will see him and Womack BOTH starting 5 out of every 7 games.

As a backup fine, but he won't be one.

I could be wrong..I hope I am...but I doubt it.

RedsBaron
01-09-2006, 07:27 AM
:bang: :thumbdown :cry: :help: :bash: :explode: :scared: :shocked: :pray: :censored: :lastyear: :rant: :runawaycr :runaway: :rant2: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :yikes: :angry:

membengal
01-09-2006, 07:47 AM
You know, I know, we all know, that this signing seriously jeapordizes EdE's playing time for 2006. We have seen it once already. I thought a year ago that Aurilia would make a fine back-up, only to be stunned when realized the Reds were going to play him over Lopez coming out of the spring. Can anyone trust that they won't do something similarly stupid again? Just wait, if EdE is 0 for his first 10, watch them start to make noises about Aurilia at 3b.

Really, yesterday was one of the darkest Cincy sporting days in quite awhile. I can't stand this. I really can't.

letsgojunior
01-09-2006, 07:57 AM
http://www.federalobserver.com/content_images/burning_money_11.jpg

Roy Tucker
01-09-2006, 08:38 AM
Eh, in the overall grand scheme of things, this is small potatoes.

But it just drives me nuts because I just very highly suspect that DanO has spent the bulk of his time the last few weeks driving nails into this dumb deal. And probably spending a lot of time hammering some bent and rusty nails to save money.

If I were king, I would have spent about 1/2 hour on this deal, thrown Aurilia a bone, and said "I've got Adam Dunn to sign to a LTC, a dysfunctional pitching staff to fix, a farm system to patch up, and I don't have *time* for this tomfoolery, take it or leave it".

RFS62
01-09-2006, 08:45 AM
It's not the money that bothers me. Small potatoes indeed.

It's the nagging fear that this will be just like last year when he blocked Lopez until he got hurt. We sign him talking about veteran presence and being a bench player, and what happens?

He whines and moans incessantly and gets a starting position.

It's bait and switch.

LoganBuck
01-09-2006, 08:56 AM
Would it be ok if they play him at second at home, and ban him from all road trips?

I don't really like the signing but the Reds could have signed someone like Tony Womack, oh wait.....................

Chip R
01-09-2006, 08:56 AM
Don't look now, but I'm counting at least three 25th men.

How many more can DanO add?

Don't tempt him.

membengal
01-09-2006, 09:04 AM
It's not the money that bothers me. Small potatoes indeed.

It's the nagging fear that this will be just like last year when he blocked Lopez until he got hurt. We sign him talking about veteran presence and being a bench player, and what happens?

He whines and moans incessantly and gets a starting position.

It's bait and switch.

Exactly. This isn't about the money. It's about the harm that can now potentially be inflicted on one of the few bright spots looking forward to 2006.

Krusty
01-09-2006, 09:09 AM
This signing displays man love at its very best.

dsmith421
01-09-2006, 09:17 AM
This is it. I'm done. From today forward, I'm an A's fan.

Consider this my declaration of independence.

15fan
01-09-2006, 09:28 AM
Dear Mr. Castellini.

Please go out and find the best arsonist that money can buy.

Then torch everything in the front office.

Chip R
01-09-2006, 09:49 AM
I suppose you have to hit rock bottom before you can get better.

RFS62
01-09-2006, 09:55 AM
I suppose you have to hit rock bottom before you can get better.



I can live with that. But we've taken a jackhammer down there and we're trying to go lower.

traderumor
01-09-2006, 10:05 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2285181

Aurilia's deal contains a $2 million mutual option for 2007. If he has 400 plate appearances this year, a $100,000 buyout would kick in if the option is declined. If he has 450 plate appearances, the buyout amount would increase to $200,000.
So, if he plays a lot and the Reds don't want him back, they have to give him something? What a looney buyout clause. But a mutual option at least means we don't have a Jimmy Haynes Boilerplate here. But, the way this reads, if he plays a lot and declines the option, he gets paid 100 or 200K for declining to play with the Reds. Hopefully that only applies to the team declining the option. Surely they wouldn't be stupid enough to have a buyout clause for a player not wanting to play for the Reds next season. Oh yeah, they probably would.

traderumor
01-09-2006, 10:07 AM
This is it. I'm done. From today forward, I'm an A's fan.

Consider this my declaration of independence.Are you the master of your domain? :evil:

Puffy
01-09-2006, 10:25 AM
Its your new First basemen, Rich Aurilia.

This frees up Kearns or Pena to be traded for pitching, Dunn back to the outfield and Aurilia to first base.

Ugh.

Falls City Beer
01-09-2006, 10:33 AM
Its your new First basemen, Rich Aurilia.

This frees up Kearns or Pena to be traded for pitching, Dunn back to the outfield and Aurilia to first base.

Ugh.

This would make Rich the shortest firstbaseman on earth.

Chip R
01-09-2006, 10:35 AM
This would make Rich the shortest firstbaseman on earth.

Javy Valentin would like a word with you.

Falls City Beer
01-09-2006, 10:38 AM
Javy Valentin would like a word with you.

True. Maybe I should amend it: shortest "regular" firstbaseman.

Chip R
01-09-2006, 10:41 AM
True. Maybe I should amend it: shortest "regular" firstbaseman.
Who isn't a porn star in the off-season. :devil:

TRF
01-09-2006, 10:41 AM
That's it. After a bonecrushing ligament tearing weekend, I come into work and read this.

I love the few arguements that say this is no big deal, that it's "small potatoes." Remember, RA was brought in on a minor league contract last year for a chance at a backup role. I believe he started over FeLo on Opening Day despite being outplayed all spring.

EE, say hi to Rich Aurilia, the Cincinnati Reds' new third baseman. See despite Freel's brush with Tequila and the law, the reds just don't release guys with 3 million dollar contracts. So, Freel starts and plays second. EE gets the backup role, or goes to AAA for everyday reps, and the Reds carry Womack, Olmedo and Bergolla, and while I like the latter two as defensive replacements, Womack is like an anchor wrapped around squirrel's neck and thrown in quicksand.

At least DanO isn't disguising it this time. At that contract, RA was brought in to start with DanO thinking "wow, I got a steal of an infield... cheap except for Dunn, but we can work on that."

NC Reds
01-09-2006, 10:44 AM
Disappointing, but not unexpected. I'm not so sure I will pony up the dollars for MLB extra innings this year. I probably will, but DanO basically is sending Reds fans a love letter written in feces this offseason.

gonelong
01-09-2006, 11:12 AM
I have always wondered how someone could get to a mental state where they would douse themselves in gasoline and then light themselves on fire.

I believe this is the closest I have come to understanding how that might seem like a good option.

GL

flyer85
01-09-2006, 11:22 AM
The only hope is the DanO is fired and Womack is released.

Roy Tucker
01-09-2006, 11:26 AM
Yeah, I'll grant you that the whole dynamic with EE, Aurilia, and Womack that is setting up is disturbing. I'd say that any intelligent baseball manager would realize EE's potential and play him. But then, we did have the whole RA-Lopez exercise in stupidity last spring.

My only hope is that it was Dave Miley doing that and Jerry Narron seems to have a modicum of sense. Make that a prayer instead of a hope.

But it's small potatoes from the standpoint of the Reds had a historically bad pitching staff last year and haven't done a darn thing to fix it in the off-season. That is a magnitude 9.0 on the Richter scale. The whole RA-EE thing is down in the noise level.

Yeah, EE may not get as much playing time, we will have to endure a bunch of Aurilia-Womack soap opera whining, but that doesn't compare to the aorta-gushing ERA's we're going to see this year that is going to absolutely bleed this team dry.

I absolutely cannot conceive that in anyone's wildest dreams that the addition of Dave Williams and Chris Hammonds is going to make the slightest bit of difference.

RedsManRick
01-09-2006, 11:29 AM
The more I think about it, Aurilia isn't 2B backup, he's 1B. Valentin was the only guy on the roster with experience at 1B and he's horrible vs. lefties, which is likely when Dunn would sit. Aurilia has a .798 vs. lefties the last 3 years.

Personally I think Dunn should play 162 games, but we all know Narron likes to give guys their rest.

8 Starters
12 Pitchers
Bench:
OF: Freel, Denorfia/Cruz (hoping for Denorfia)
IF: Womack, Aurilia
C: Valentin

Of course, that gives us no defensive middle infielders, which bugs the heck out of me. We could go with 11 pitchers, at least for April, and carry Olmedo. In fact, that makes the most sense to me. I don't like the signing, but he's a better backup at 1B than what we had.

WebScorpion
01-09-2006, 11:31 AM
The only hope is the DanO is fired and Womack is released.

Can't they just fire DanO on the 19th and declare anything he's done this off-season null and void? :pray:

Last season I thought the Milton signing had a ghost of a chance of benefitting the team, but this year it almost looks like DanO is sabotaging the organization before he is shown the door. :help:

Ravenlord
01-09-2006, 11:31 AM
The more I think about it, Aurilia isn't 2B backup, he's 1B. Valentin was the only guy on the roster with experience at 1B and he's horrible vs. lefties, which is likely when Dunn would sit. Jacob Cruz mostly plays 1B since his legs are screwey now. Dunn shouldn't sit against lefties, and Aurilia sholdn't be hitting against anyone outside of GAB, Coors, or Philly.

westofyou
01-09-2006, 11:37 AM
1 game at 1st in his career.

Some of you have very active imaginations.

Redsland
01-09-2006, 11:44 AM
I absolutely cannot conceive that in anyone's wildest dreams that the addition of Dave Williams and Chris Hammonds is going to make the slightest bit of difference.
You're forgetting about Machado, though. :rolleyes:

StillFunkyB
01-09-2006, 11:46 AM
Yesterday was bad enough.

Looks like today isn't any better.

I am so disgusted right now, I don't even know what to say without breaking some rules around here.

TRF
01-09-2006, 11:50 AM
Yeah, I'll grant you that the whole dynamic with EE, Aurilia, and Womack that is setting up is disturbing. I'd say that any intelligent baseball manager would realize EE's potential and play him. But then, we did have the whole RA-Lopez exercise in stupidity last spring.

My only hope is that it was Dave Miley doing that and Jerry Narron seems to have a modicum of sense. Make that a prayer instead of a hope.

But it's small potatoes from the standpoint of the Reds had a historically bad pitching staff last year and haven't done a darn thing to fix it in the off-season. That is a magnitude 9.0 on the Richter scale. The whole RA-EE thing is down in the noise level.

Yeah, EE may not get as much playing time, we will have to endure a bunch of Aurilia-Womack soap opera whining, but that doesn't compare to the aorta-gushing ERA's we're going to see this year that is going to absolutely bleed this team dry.

I absolutely cannot conceive that in anyone's wildest dreams that the addition of Dave Williams and Chris Hammonds is going to make the slightest bit of difference.

And how exactly are those ERA's helped by playing a guy at third with all the mobility and range of a mobster in cement shoes? I'm far less appalled at the Hammonds signing that RA coming back, especially after he declined arbitration. DanO just punted a free draft pick, and considering the state of the Reds minor league system, that is something you do not do.

Essentially DanO thinks that Rich Aurilia is more valuable than a Travis Wood. Ridiculous.

Roy Tucker
01-09-2006, 12:09 PM
And how exactly are those ERA's helped by playing a guy at third with all the mobility and range of a mobster in cement shoes? I'm far less appalled at the Hammonds signing that RA coming back, especially after he declined arbitration. DanO just punted a free draft pick, and considering the state of the Reds minor league system, that is something you do not do.

Essentially DanO thinks that Rich Aurilia is more valuable than a Travis Wood. Ridiculous.
I don't dispute what you're saying. Signing RA was dumb. It's going to detract from EE's playing time. The Hammonds signing was a nice little move (or would be if there was a decent pitching staff in place). But, over the course of the season, RA won't get to 10-12 balls that EE would get. At worst, that's going to make a difference of 1-2 games. So the Reds go 72-90 instead of 74-88. Pfftt.

The RA signing is an annoying little monkey that will jump on people's head and bug the heck out of them. The lack of fundementally addressing the team's pitching woes is an 800 lb. gorilla that will twist the teams' head off and kill it.

REDREAD
01-09-2006, 12:11 PM
Of course it's not the end of the world, but it is Dan O'Brien undoing the only smart thing he'd ever done as GM of the Reds. It's stupid roster management and it's disgusting that we've had to endure this.

IMO, people were giving DanO way too much credit. I said earlier, this had nothing to do with trying to get a draft pick, DanO wanted him back.

Why would Aurillia agree to decline arb otherwise (that hurts his bargaining position with other clubs)? There's no way DanO offers arb unless Aurillia promises not to take it. Aurillia would've gotten a lot more than 1.3 million in arb.

DanO likely made that 1.3 offer to Aurillia when the season ended. DanO likely made it clear to Aurillia that there was no guarantees of playing time. Aurillia wanted to look at his other options. At the arb deadline, he had no better options. DanO and Aurillia agreed to offer Aurillia arb to give Aurillia more time to examine his options. In the end, the Reds offered the best deal and Aurillia took it.

M2
01-09-2006, 12:15 PM
IMO, people were giving DanO way too much credit. I said earlier, this had nothing to do with trying to get a draft pick, DanO wanted him back.

Why would Aurillia agree to decline arb otherwise (that hurts his bargaining position with other clubs)? There's no way DanO offers arb unless Aurillia promises not to take it. Aurillia would've gotten a lot more than 1.3 million in arb.

DanO likely made that 1.3 offer to Aurillia when the season ended. DanO likely made it clear to Aurillia that there was no guarantees of playing time. Aurillia wanted to look at his other options. At the arb deadline, he had no better options. DanO and Aurillia agreed to offer Aurillia arb to give Aurillia more time to examine his options. In the end, the Reds offered the best deal and Aurillia took it.

A) I don't think Aurilia was in line for an arbitration windfall no matter what.

B) All DanO had to do was tell Aurilia he had zero chance of starting in the Reds IF if he came back and that should have been enough to scare the guy away.

C) Inadvertent or not, DanO was within three hours of having gotten something right. I still root for the team to do smart things instead of dumb things.

REDREAD
01-09-2006, 12:15 PM
Its your new First basemen, Rich Aurilia.

This frees up Kearns or Pena to be traded for pitching, Dunn back to the outfield and Aurilia to first base.

Ugh.

Actually, that's not such a crazy idea to get some depth at 1b or OF to be able to trade Kearns or Pena. Aurillia isn't the best choice, but since a lot of people want to totally blow up this team and start over, we're going to have to start collecting bodies to play if we want to do rebuild trades.

REDREAD
01-09-2006, 12:19 PM
8 Starters
12 Pitchers
Bench:
OF: Freel, Denorfia/Cruz (hoping for Denorfia)
IF: Womack, Aurilia
C: Valentin

Of course, that gives us no defensive middle infielders, .

There's room for one more position player. One of Freel/Womack/Aurillia must be counted as the 2b starter. You can still carry Olmedo if you really want to.
But I'd rather cut it down to 11 pitchers as well. It's not like the 12th guy they add is going to be any good.

REDREAD
01-09-2006, 12:30 PM
A) I don't think Aurilia was in line for an arbitration windfall no matter what..

You might be right. If the Reds went to arb with 1.3 million, they might've won. Aurillia would've probyably submited 2.5-3 million. Would John Allen take the risk though, if the reward was a draft pick? Probably not, as Allen doesn't believe in investing in the draft. Remember, DanO said he's still taking orders from Allen. Plus you have to consider that Allen is also probably scrambling to save his job. He's not going to want an extra 600k-1 million or whatever spent on the draft this summer, because in Allen's mind, cost containment is the value he brings to this organizati



B) All DanO had to do was tell Aurilia he had zero chance of starting in the Reds IF if he came back and that should have been enough to scare the guy away...

I think DanO did tell him that. That's what I picked up from reading the press clippings. In fact, I recall a quote from DanO where he said he told Aurillia that the Reds wanted him, but there were no promises of playing time.



C) Inadvertent or not, DanO was within three hours of having gotten something right. I still root for the team to do smart things instead of dumb things.

I'd rather have the draft pick too. I think DanO made Aurillia a standing offer though when they did the "Agree to decline arb" thing. I'm not sure it's good business longterm to offer a player arb but promise him he'll ride the bench the entire time if he accepts. We already have trouble attracting quality free agents. If word gets out that we use heavy handed negotiating tactics like that, we'll have even more trouble. Plus, we'd have to worry about a grievance being filed with the union. I doubt it's permissable to offer a player arb while threatening to sabotage his career if he accepts. I know Rich doesn't have much of a career left, but that's not exactly offering arb in good faith.

TRF
01-09-2006, 12:33 PM
I don't dispute what you're saying. Signing RA was dumb. It's going to detract from EE's playing time. The Hammonds signing was a nice little move (or would be if there was a decent pitching staff in place). But, over the course of the season, RA won't get to 10-12 balls that EE would get. At worst, that's going to make a difference of 1-2 games. So the Reds go 72-90 instead of 74-88. Pfftt.

The RA signing is an annoying little monkey that will jump on people's head and bug the heck out of them. The lack of fundementally addressing the team's pitching woes is an 800 lb. gorilla that will twist the teams' head off and kill it.

I'm less concerned about EE losing playing time than i am at the fact that 1.3 mil is thrown at a guy the Reds do not need. EE will get his PT soon enough, When RA proves to be RA. The left side of the Reds infield will be set for a decade once that happens. But paying RA 1.3 mil and giving up a Travis Wood like pick (possibly) is dumb to the Nth degree. It's all connected:


Sign RA for 1.3 mil
Less money for pitching.
No extra draft pick.
Team ERA goes up with statue of a defender at third.
Less development time for EE. (my big fear is that he rots on the bench.)
Bad decisions are funny like that. Now let's see what could have happened:


RA does not sign.
Reds get compensatory pick after Yankees or Orioles sign RA to 2 million dollar contract.
EE plays for full year at 3B. He has his growing pains, but his range and arm help solidify left side of infield, and with a 6'6" target to throw to at 1B, his throwing errors decline.
Money not wasted on RA goes toward aquiring pitching via trade/FA.Why is this so hard for DanO to grasp?

Kc61
01-09-2006, 12:54 PM
For almost any other team in baseball, this move is of no consequence. It is a minor acquisition of a guy who provides some depth for a small amount of money.

For Reds fans, the move causes all this upset. This shows how much fans distrust the organization. Fans think the Reds are (a) inept, (b) cheap, and (c) trying to be mediocre rather than good.

I don't think another year of RA is a problem. He provides depth and can be a stopgap if other position players are dealt for pitching. I have always felt fans dislike RA mostly because of his ill-advised public comments.

More important, to me, is what the fans' comments say about their lack of regard for the organization. The new owners need -- quickly -- to make some moves (primarily front office moves) that will start to restore respect for the team among its fans. Right now, most of us think the Reds are a joke and they have done little to prove us wrong.

traderumor
01-09-2006, 01:00 PM
From Marc's blog. And those are real quotes from DanO.


Words from Rich

Now that I've finally taken care of everything I'm writing for the actual paper tomorrow, let me just dump a quote or two on here. Talked to Rich a couple hours ago and he sounded pretty worn out -- he, too, watched the Bengals game this afternoon -- but he said he was glad to be back.

"My goal coming into last year was to get a chance to play a little and show that I could still contribute and be productive, and I think I did that last year playing a bunch of different positions, which I’d never done before in my career.

"I’m of the mindset now where I don’t care where I play, I just want to play. Whether I’m moving between second, short, third – even a little first – I don’t care. I think I can be an asset to the team, especially with the loss of another veteran guy (Sean Casey) a few weeks ago."

From that, you can gather what we'd already heard -- that Jerry Narron has told Rich he'll be bouncing to several different positions. As the roster currently stands, I'd expect Aurilia to make the majority of starts at second, but you never know how things will play out.

I asked Dan O'Brien if this might help open up any trade possibilities.

"The more versatile your position-player roster is, the better you would potentially be able to absorb some sort of change in personnel," he said.

So is anything in the hopper at the moment?

"Not specifically, per se, but everyone understands the reality of, any other club’s focus is going to be on our position players, especially if we’re focused on pitching in return. But everything you and I are talking about is hypothetical. Nothing is imminent."

Jpup
01-09-2006, 01:31 PM
From Marc's blog. And those are real quotes from DanO.

WTF did DanO just say? :eek: I think that is French for, I'm on the way out the door.

puca
01-09-2006, 01:43 PM
Oh, so hypothetically there is nothing specific in the hopper and hypothetically nothing is immenent. I understand.

Chip R
01-09-2006, 01:43 PM
WTF did DanO just say? :eek: I think that is French for, I'm on the way out the door.

That was gobbledygook of the highest degree. :bang:

Ravenlord
01-09-2006, 01:50 PM
i would say DanO's playing with his cards close to his chest...but after reading that i'm not sure DanO even knows he's playing cards.

westofyou
01-09-2006, 02:13 PM
i would say DanO's playing with his cards close to his chest...but after reading that i'm not sure DanO even knows he's playing cards. Problem is the game he's playing has a different deck.
http://www.fundexgames.com/products/images/3201.jpg

Heath
01-09-2006, 02:17 PM
Problem is the game he's playing has a different deck.
http://www.fundexgames.com/products/images/3201.jpg

On top of that, he's using the above cards to play Euchere.

REDREAD
01-09-2006, 02:37 PM
On top of that, he's using the above cards to play Euchere.

And he's still waiting to get dealt the Joker before he makes his big move :laugh:

flyer85
01-09-2006, 02:47 PM
from Rotoworld


The Reds' roster is better with Aurilia on it. However, the lineup still works best with Ryan Freel at second base and batting leadoff. It this means more outfield time for Freel at the expense of Wily Mo Pena or Austin Keanrs, it might not be such a good thing. On the other hand, it does turn Tony Womack into an afterthought, which is simply great news for Reds fans.

If DanO is still around it turns Olmedo into an afterthought and I wouldn't be surprised to see Womack and Aurilia as starters on opening day.

registerthis
01-09-2006, 03:05 PM
So, let's recap.

The Reds, essentially, netted $7 million by trading Casey to Pittsburgh. What have they done with that windfall of cash?

They got Dave Williams for $1.1 mil.
They signed Tony Womack for $1.2 mil.
They signed Rick Aurilia for $1.3 mil. (Might want to double check these numbers.)

So, over HALF of the money saved in the Casey deal has gone to Williams, Womack and Aurilia.

Now, can anyone give me a plausible reason to think that this team will be anywhere above 5th place next year?

Pathetic.

pedro
01-09-2006, 03:10 PM
So, let's recap.

The Reds, essentially, netted $7 million by trading Casey to Pittsburgh. What have they done with that windfall of cash?

They got Dave Williams for $1.1 mil.
They signed Tony Womack for $1.2 mil.
They signed Rick Aurilia for $1.3 mil. (Might want to double check these numbers.)

So, over HALF of the money saved in the Casey deal has gone to Williams, Womack and Aurilia.

Now, can anyone give me a plausible reason to think that this team will be anywhere above 5th place next year?

Pathetic.


you could just as easily say that's the Danny Graves money, now that his contract is off the books.

as for a plausible reason the Reds will be above 5th. No I can't.

registerthis
01-09-2006, 03:53 PM
you could just as easily say that's the Danny Graves money, now that his contract is off the books.

Either or. The point of it is that it is money not well spent.

But that's OK, we'll be the "veteran leadership" envy of every other ML team.

pedro
01-09-2006, 04:09 PM
Either or. The point of it is that it is money not well spent.



I hear you there.

SteelSD
01-09-2006, 05:20 PM
Ok. I get it now. It's code. Let's take that quote apart using our special decoder ring and see what Dan O'Brien is really saying...


I asked Dan O'Brien if this might help open up any trade possibilities.

"The more versatile your position-player roster is, the better you would potentially be able to absorb some sort of change in personnel," he said.

There we go. Anyone gonna take the second one?

IslandRed
01-09-2006, 05:37 PM
Ok. I get it now. It's code. Let's take that quote apart using our special decoder ring and see what Dan O'Brien is really saying...

There we go. Anyone gonna take the second one?

I think I have it...


"Not specifically, per se, but everyone understands the reality of, any other club’s focus is going to be on our position players, especially if we’re focused on pitching in return. But everything you and I are talking about is hypothetical. Nothing is imminent."

knuckler
01-09-2006, 05:40 PM
Let's stay focused on the real problem: the Tony Womack deal. Aurilia is a relatively cheap, useful bat if he truly accepts his role roaming around the infield and getting frequent starts at second base. Womack, on the other hand, is nothing but a more expensive version of William Bergolla or Ray Olmedo whose presence already cost a couple of borderline prospects and risks pushing Encarnacion back to AAA. I'd MUCH rather have Aurilia for $1.3M than Womack for free.

M2
01-09-2006, 05:59 PM
Let's stay focused on the real problem: the Tony Womack deal. Aurilia is a relatively cheap, useful bat if he truly accepts his role roaming around the infield and getting frequent starts at second base. Womack, on the other hand, is nothing but a more expensive version of William Bergolla or Ray Olmedo whose presence already cost a couple of borderline prospects and risks pushing Encarnacion back to AAA. I'd MUCH rather have Aurilia for $1.3M than Womack for free.

Well, I'd argue the real problem is the pitching in lockstep with a thin feeder system. Had DanO simply let Aurilia work elsewhere -- and I'll guarantee you that if guys like Marlon Anderson, Eric Young and Damion Easley can find takers, so can Rich Aurilia -- then the Reds would have had an extra high draft pick to help right the system, perhaps it even would have been an arm.

Redsland
01-09-2006, 06:12 PM
Now, can anyone give me a plausible reason to think that this team will be anywhere above 5th place next year?
Our GM told us after the season that his biggest priority was starting pitching.

He told us in December that his top priority was signing Adam Dunn long-term.

Well?

:bang:

westofyou
01-09-2006, 06:19 PM
Our GM told us after the season that his biggest priority was starting pitching.

He told us in December that his top priority was signing Adam Dunn long-term.

Well?

:bang:
http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/mr.gif

ochre
01-09-2006, 08:45 PM
(c) trying to be mediocre rather than good.


The sad part is, I think they are trying to be good. They are making moves that they feel will make the Reds better. Or more versatile anyway.

KronoRed
01-09-2006, 08:48 PM
Our GM told us after the season that his biggest priority was starting pitching.

He told us in December that his top priority was signing Adam Dunn long-term.

Can we ad the little BS guy from the peanut board? :D

RFS62
01-09-2006, 11:28 PM
Let's stay focused on the real problem: the Tony Womack deal. Aurilia is a relatively cheap, useful bat if he truly accepts his role roaming around the infield and getting frequent starts at second base. Womack, on the other hand, is nothing but a more expensive version of William Bergolla or Ray Olmedo whose presence already cost a couple of borderline prospects and risks pushing Encarnacion back to AAA. I'd MUCH rather have Aurilia for $1.3M than Womack for free.


How wonderful that we have not just one, but two of these roadblocks to focus on this year.

Meanwhile, the pitching, the bane of our existance, retains the same moldy, putrid stench we enjoyed so much last year.

Chip R
01-10-2006, 08:59 AM
How wonderful that we have not just one, but two of these roadblocks to focus on this year.

Meanwhile, the pitching, the bane of our existance, retains the same moldy, putrid stench we enjoyed so much last year.

Well, at least there will be more than one whipping boy this year.

GAC
01-10-2006, 09:00 AM
What I liked was the title of Hal McCoy's piece covering the RA signing and Freel geting arrested. It was titled "Good News and Bad News"

I'm still scracthing my head trying to figure out which is which? :lol:

KronoRed
01-10-2006, 09:35 AM
I call it bad news and horrible news myself ;)

Patrick Bateman
01-10-2006, 10:56 AM
Well, I'd argue the real problem is the pitching in lockstep with a thin feeder system. Had DanO simply let Aurilia work elsewhere -- and I'll guarantee you that if guys like Marlon Anderson, Eric Young and Damion Easley can find takers, so can Rich Aurilia -- then the Reds would have had an extra high draft pick to help right the system, perhaps it even would have been an arm.

The difficulty in Aurilia finding work elsewhere is teams surrendering this first round pick to get him. There's a world of difference to signing an Anderson/Young/Easley time for peanuts, and giving up a first round pick for Aurilia. It was clear that the Reds were not Aurilia's first choice, as he wanted guaranteed playing time. He obviously couldn't get that, because clearly no one would give up their first round pick to get him.

M2
01-10-2006, 11:06 AM
The difficulty in Aurilia finding work elsewhere is teams surrendering this first round pick to get him. There's a world of difference to signing an Anderson/Young/Easley time for peanuts, and giving up a first round pick for Aurilia. It was clear that the Reds were not Aurilia's first choice, as he wanted guaranteed playing time. He obviously couldn't get that, because clearly no one would give up their first round pick to get him.

No, it's just a matter of no one had done it yet. BTW, for half of the league it was a second round pick. Plenty of wannabe contenders still have IF holes to fill and Aurilia hit .282 with 14 HR last season. Sooner or later someone was going to take that bait. All the Reds had to do was stay the course. Instead they took the on ramp back onto the idiot highway.

RedsManRick
01-10-2006, 11:28 AM
Aurilia was on XM radio last night and basically said nobody would sign him because they didn't want to give up the 2nd round comp pick. Where's Brian Sabean when you need him?

Krusty
01-10-2006, 12:09 PM
The Aurilia signing is a minor thing. His attitude next season over playing time is another.

If anything, this could lead to a possible move by the Reds for additional pitching. You could trade Willy Mo and play Freel in LF with Womack and Aurilia sharing time at second. You could trade Freel in hopes of pitching up another starter (His off the field problems might have the Reds thinking twice about giving him that contract extension).

RFS62
01-10-2006, 12:12 PM
Aurilia was on XM radio last night and basically said nobody would sign him because they didn't want to give up the 2nd round comp pick. Where's Brian Sabean when you need him?


I heard a sound byte from Rick this morning on XM.

He said (paraphrasing from memory) "I know I could be a starting shortstop on some team in the majors. I just know it. I played some other positions last year. As long as I'm in the lineup, I'll be happy."

And I took it to say that he expects to be in the lineup somewhere every day.

Krusty
01-10-2006, 12:14 PM
I heard a sound byte from Rick this morning on XM.

He said (paraphrasing from memory) "I know I could be a starting shortstop on some team in the majors. I just know it. I played some other positions last year. As long as I'm in the lineup, I'll be happy."

And I took it to say that he expects to be in the lineup somewhere every day.

And where does that put Womack and Freel? IMO, one goes in a trade come spring training. If Encarncion or Lopez needs a day off, Aurilia can fill in with either Womack or Freel at second. Womack can also fill in at shortstop. But all three will be complaining about playing time unless someone goes down in the outfield.

Expect a trade come spring training.

Heath
01-10-2006, 01:00 PM
And where does that put Womack and Freel? IMO, one goes in a trade come spring training. If Encarncion or Lopez needs a day off, Aurilia can fill in with either Womack or Freel at second. Womack can also fill in at shortstop. But all three will be complaining about playing time unless someone goes down in the outfield.

Expect a trade come spring training.

yep-makes sense for the direction of this franchise. Trade a young OF with upside for some AA hack pitcher so we can appease the freakin' ego of a 34 yr old journeyman washed-up utility infielder with "veteran presence".

Somebody take DanO's power away. Please.

Chip R
01-10-2006, 01:16 PM
You know who loves this signing? The writers. Every time Rich doesn't play they can go to him and get an earful about how he should be playing all the time.

gonelong
01-10-2006, 01:34 PM
You know who loves this signing? The writers. Every time Rich doesn't play they can go to him and get an earful about how he should be playing all the time.

A little hub-bub like that usually gets that writer a cameo on the radio as well. ;)

GL

Krusty
01-10-2006, 01:56 PM
What does 3.8 million get you these days?.....Aurilia (1.3 million), Womack (1.1 million), and Williams (1.4 million).

Now ask are the Reds getting the most out of their limited dollars?

Puffy
01-10-2006, 02:26 PM
What does 3.8 million get you these days?.....Aurilia (1.3 million), Womack (1.1 million), and Williams (1.4 million).

Now ask are the Reds getting the most out of their limited dollars?

no.

flyer85
01-10-2006, 02:38 PM
I call it bad news and horrible news myself ;)which is which?

KronoRed
01-10-2006, 09:31 PM
Freel is the bad.

KronoRed
01-10-2006, 09:32 PM
Expect a trade come spring training.
I'll be surprised if there is one.

These guys are not sold on EE, he will be the odd one out.

westofyou
01-10-2006, 09:47 PM
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/


# On shuffling Aurilia, Freel and Womack around between positions: "I’ll try my best to get them out there on the field as often as I can. It’s outstanding that we’ve got three guys of that caliber that we can kind of fit in and play. If everybody stays healthy, somebody’s probably going to be upset about the playing time, but over the course of the year I’m sure guys are going to get playing time. It’ll take care of itself over 162 games."

# Narron said he intends to leave the second base position open and rotate players through there rather than settle on one starter. It sounded as if Aurilia and Womack would get the longest looks there. He said he'd like to have either Freel or Womack in the lineup at some positions every day, if possible, just for the speed factor.

alloverjr
01-10-2006, 09:57 PM
And if Freel is to start, but apparently not at second, where then? Sorry EE, you may be the best positional prospect ML ready, but we've got these old guys we'd rather play. Or, maybe we play Womack at 2B and Freel in left. Scrap all those runs scored last year. If we ever find ourselves in a 3-2 game we'll be able to run really fast.

How's that league worst pitching again?

Heath
01-10-2006, 11:02 PM
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

You forgot this little tidbit.


On Edwin Encarnacion at third base: "It would be awesome to see him come into spring training, start the year and play outstanding. That’s what we’re hoping for, and if he does that, he doesn’t have to worry about playing. But having Richie back gives us an alternative, and Eddie’s going to have to play well to go out there and play every day."



Unfreakingbelieveable. Let's just toss the only thing we have remotely close to ML prospect and ruin him forever.

Does RA have pictures of Narron too?

Falls City Beer
01-10-2006, 11:51 PM
How's that league worst pitching again?

DanO's too busy putting out grassfires of his own creating.

Ron Madden
01-11-2006, 05:35 AM
I said it last year and I'll say it again.

Dan O'Brien is a lost ball in high weeds.

Dan is incompetent he's in way over his head. So what does he do? He bows to popular opinion, the one dictated from Marty and Hal.

Marty and Hal have been here since "The Glory Days."
They are in The HOF, well God Bless'em both,
there will always be a special place in my heart for Marty and Hal.... But there is NOBODY more responsible for the dumbing down of casual Reds Fans than these two.

Listen to the Hot Stove League on WLW tonight or read Chips report. Marty and Hal love Womack who gives us speed at the top of the order and can set the table for our big guys. :bang: (We score plenty o'runs! More than anybody else except the club we're playing)

I wish someone would call in and ask if Good Pitching is part of the "little things"?

Marty will praise the Aurilia signing just in case EE struggles. (I've played and watched this game all my life....aint never seen a hitter go all season without a tough streak) I'm pulling hard for Edwin to start off hot.

We need a GM and a Manager with enough sense to think for themselves.

Heath
01-11-2006, 10:50 AM
I wonder if Marc Lancaster gets invites to the "Hot Stove League Parties" ;)

TRF
01-11-2006, 12:56 PM
The Aurilia signing is a minor thing. His attitude next season over playing time is another.

If anything, this could lead to a possible move by the Reds for additional pitching. You could trade Willy Mo and play Freel in LF with Womack and Aurilia sharing time at second. You could trade Freel in hopes of pitching up another starter (His off the field problems might have the Reds thinking twice about giving him that contract extension).

Ya know after reading this I began to think on whether or not I need to care about RA's attitude. I decided I don't care, and perhaps none of us should.

What I care about is Narron's mindset concerning RA's playing time. Especially if he views him as a starter. This I care about alot.

Ravenlord
01-11-2006, 01:06 PM
Rich Aurilia or Tony Womack, who will suck less? since Womack hits lefty i expect to see Aurilia play at second against every single LHP.

NC Reds
01-11-2006, 06:37 PM
:aurilia:

We're stuck with him for at least another year. :(

I hope EdE, Olmedo, and Bergolla are awesome in spring training. It won't matter (Womack and Aurilia are already penciled in for a lot of AB's), but it will be fun to see how management explains why the Reds need these elder statesmen in the infield.

Eric_Davis
01-11-2006, 06:40 PM
It's official, Dan O'Brien's an idiot. When you can get a draft pick for Rich Aurilia, you take a draft pick for Rich Aurilia.

No doubt!

Aurilia offers nothing to this team.

Where's Von Oelhofen when you need him?

Eric_Davis
01-11-2006, 06:42 PM
I wouldn't care if Ed E hit .220 all year, as long as he got his 500+ AB's. With Aurilia in the fold that's impossible.

Rich, I hope something happens that causes you to retire immediately.

I thought I was done watching you when the Mariners gave you the boot.

Eric_Davis
01-11-2006, 06:44 PM
They should make Aurilia do the REDSFEST tour. That will make him quit (because he thinks he's too good for that type of duty).

Eric_Davis
01-11-2006, 06:52 PM
I still think Aurilia has naked pictures of Dan O's wife.

Heath
01-11-2006, 07:47 PM
I still think Aurilia has naked pictures of Dan O's wife.

You forgot this emoticon...

:yikes:

KronoRed
01-11-2006, 09:42 PM
I wouldn't care if Ed E hit .220 all year, as long as he got his 500+ AB's. With Aurilia in the fold that's impossible.

At least THEN we would know if he was good or not.

Why can't the team just say "Look..we're bad..it will take an act of God to get us anywhere near the playoffs, we're gonna play the kids and see what happens, we hope you'll come see us"

Be honest, the fans aren't dumb enough to think Womack and Aurilia are gonna lead us to the series.

Heath
01-11-2006, 11:44 PM
At least THEN we would know if he was good or not.

Why can't the team just say "Look..we're bad..it will take an act of God to get us anywhere near the playoffs, we're gonna play the kids and see what happens, we hope you'll come see us"

Be honest, the fans aren't dumb enough to think Womack and Aurilia are gonna lead us to the series.

I think - and this is a thought - more people might actually enjoy seeing the kids than the veteran re-treads...

jmo....

KronoRed
01-12-2006, 12:56 AM
The radio guys and half the newspaper guys wouldn't, they have been quite critical the past few years of Dunn,Kearns,Pena,Lopez and now EE..nit picking all of them yet singing the praise of Randa,Aurilia and Casey.

Boo.

RedsBaron
01-12-2006, 07:42 AM
The radio guys and half the newspaper guys wouldn't, they have been quite critical the past few years of Dunn,Kearns,Pena,Lopez and now EE..nit picking all of them yet singing the praise of Randa,Aurilia and Casey.

Boo.
Yep. Media coverage of the Reds is quite poor, and lead by a couple of guys (Marty and Hal) who are well past their prime and stuck in the past.

Ravenlord
01-12-2006, 10:34 AM
just for fun, the Reds depth chart according to the team website:

C-LaRue, Valentin, Sardinha, Perez
1B-Dunn
2B-Womack, Aurilia, Freel
SS-Lopez, Aurilia, Olmedo, Womack
3B-Encarnacion, Aurilia, Freel
LF-Pena, Freel, Denorfia, Womack
CF-Griffey, Freel, Pena, Denorfia
RF-Kearns, Pena, Denorfia

BRM
01-12-2006, 02:45 PM
just for fun, the Reds depth chart according to the team website:

2B-Womack, Aurilia, Freel


Interesting. Those names are in reverse order based strictly on talent.

registerthis
01-12-2006, 04:24 PM
2B-Womack, Aurilia, Freel
SS-Lopez, Aurilia, Olmedo, Womack
3B-Encarnacion, Aurilia, Freel

I see Aurilia's name up there three times.

That ain't good.

KronoRed
01-12-2006, 09:37 PM
Put him at 1st too, Narron said he could play it.

Ron Madden
01-13-2006, 05:21 AM
[QUOTE=registerthis]I see Aurilia's name up there three times.

That ain't good.[/QUOTE

Change in this organization is A Must.

The Reds out scored almost every other club in the league in 2005. The reason they had a losing record is more often than not teams they played scored even more runs.

So what do we do to fix this mess?

Dan O'Brien, Jerry Narron, Marty and Hal all agree that we have to manufacture more runs. We swing and miss too much, and fail to move runners over.

Somehow and in some way these men honestly believe that Womack and Aurillia add value.

My head hurts now so I'll just shut up.