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View Full Version : Source: Rose will never be reinstated under Selig; Rose: "I no longer bet on sports"



savafan
01-10-2006, 11:39 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2006-01-10-rose_x.htm

By Jon Saraceno, USA TODAY
LAS VEGAS — Baseball's infamous outcast sits behind a table in front of a memorabilia store in an upscale mall. Pete Rose's full-time job these days is hustling his signature, and he is paid more than a million dollars to do it. Two young women wearing Cincinnati Reds jerseys hoist "Pete Rose Here Today" signs. The banished "Hit King" sports a doughy face and paunch and the glum look of a boy kicked out of a ballpark because he was bad.

"Why doesn't baseball ever do what the public wants?" says Rose, 64, a tape-measure homer from reinstatement after he disgraced the game by breaching its most sacrosanct rule — betting on it.

Baseball's moral gatekeepers — in essence, three commissioners — have refused to unlock the front gate to their fraternity and welcome back one of the most popular, decorated and, yes, tainted players. On Tuesday, the 2006 Hall of Fame class is announced and, once again, Peter Edward Rose is left standing in the corner.

Baseball writers no longer can consider the aging Rose for the Hall because his 15-year eligibility period expired in 2005, although in an exclusive interview with USA TODAY he muses, "I don't know how my eligibility lapsed when I've never been eligible."

The player revered as "Charlie Hustle" for his peerless drive and determination only can be considered for admission by the Veterans Committee beginning in 2009, but baseball first must pardon him. So Rose markets the only thing left to peddle: his name — golden to some, tarnished for others. He views himself as baseball's finest ambassador. Although he is well compensated for the memorabilia gig, his permanent ban prevents the stained superstar from the vocation he most desires. At this juncture, bronzed-plaque recognition is secondary to Rose's goal: managing.

"Don't take this wrong or get on my case, because it's the truth," he says. "Every player would love to go to the Hall of Fame. ... My ambition — because of who I am and what I can contribute — is to get back in the game. Not as a coach or an announcer but (as a manager).

"I'm a teacher. I'm a leader; I'm not a follower. I watch two or three games every day during the baseball season. It drives me crazy when I turn on the TV and see some of these cities, see the empty seats. Every seat at a ballpark is for (a body) every night. That's why they make 'em."

If a Japanese team is paying Bobby Valentine $4 million a season, what is Rose worth in America?

"I don't know," he says, "but you'd have to think that I'm young enough to get a four- or five-year contract. Obviously, I could make more in some cities. ... I don't want to be arrogant, but if you own a baseball team and you don't want to win or put people in the seats, don't call me."

Letting people down

Peter Ueberroth, Bart Giamatti and Fay Vincent have come and gone as commissioners since baseball began investigating Rose's gambling 16 years ago. Rose's deal with Giamatti placed him on baseball's ineligible list — that is, a permanent ban. The agreement was signed after an exhaustive report by special investigator John Dowd. He concluded that while Rose managed Cincinnati in 1987 he bet a minimum of $10,000 a day on at least 52 Reds games.

The Rose-Giamatti compromise included that MLB would agree to stop investigating Rose, would not issue a formal finding of guilt and would permit him to seek reinstatement in a year. That appeased Rose, who said he spent more than $1 million defending against allegations that turned out to be true.

Rose says he assumed that if he never admitted to betting on baseball he would be welcomed back expeditiously. "I thought it was for a year — it was in the contract that I could apply for reinstatement in a year," says Rose, who served five months in prison in 1990 for income tax evasion, which included revenue from selling memorabilia. "Maybe that was stupidity on my part not to understand."

One Hall of Famer, recounting a talk he had with Bud Selig three years ago, tells USA TODAY that the commissioner said Rose will never be reinstated under his watch. Rose applied to Selig for reinstatement in 1997. There was virtually no movement by baseball's highest office until late 2002 after Selig spoke with several people, including former Rose teammates Joe Morgan and Mike Schmidt.

The aftermath of Rose's autobiography, My Prison without Bars, published in 2004, signaled an end to the progress Rose had made.

After 14 years of lying, Rose confessed to baseball's cardinal sin — betting on the game as a manager in Cincinnati during the late 1980s, though the Dowd report indicated he also wagered as a Reds player. The tone of his tome and a botched interview with ABC's Charles Gibson doomed Rose when he came off as insufficiently contrite. The timing of the release — only days before Paul Molitor and Dennis Eckersley were announced as Hall inductees — also damaged his cause.

"You know, I let my (late) mother down," he says. "She didn't see me go into the Hall. I let a lot of people down. But I can't change what happened. I wish I could rewrite it, but I can't. All I can try to do is be a better person because of it."

Bob DuPuy, the president of Major League Baseball, says Rose's application remains on Selig's desk, but "he has not given any indication he is prepared to act on it."

Rose says he doesn't believe Selig has a vendetta — "No, not at all. I like Bud" — but he can't help but wonder "What if?"

"I believe that if (commissioner) Bart Giamatti had lived, he would've given me a second chance," he says. "I got along with Bart. Then to hear people blame me for his death. I mean, the guy was 60 pounds overweight and smoked five packs a day."

Giamatti, 51, died of a massive heart attack in 1989, eight days after punishing Rose.

Rose's universal appeal has been diminished since he admitted he broke baseball's biggest taboo, a betrayal that stunned thousands of supporters and alienated him from many of his former "Big Red Machine" teammates. An online poll taken in Cincinnati after his book came out showed 70% of nearly 5,000 respondents didn't want their sullied hometown hero to manage the Reds.

Not long before, Rose's stained reputation absorbed another hit. His former friend and bet-runner, Tommy Gioiosa, revealed to Vanity Fair that Rose told him he used a corked bat in 1985, the season he surpassed Ty Cobb's all-time major league hits standard. Gioiosa, a convicted drug and tax cheat, also said he forged autographs for Rose and alleged Rose financed a cocaine buy to generate cash for his gambling. Rose denies the claims, but his past haunts him.

Next month, Pete Rose Jr., 36, faces a potential two-year prison sentence and a $1 million fine after pleading guilty in November to distributing a steroid alternative drug when he played in the minors.

Hall of Famers Bob Feller and Henry Aaron, among others, are outspoken in their opposition to Rose. Morgan, the Hall of Fame second baseman and ESPN analyst, did not return calls for this story but wrote at ESPN.com in 2004 that he hadn't "seen a genuine apology from Pete yet." Hall of Fame Reds catcher Johnny Bench also did not return calls from USA TODAY.

Brooks Robinson says some Hall members were willing to give Rose the benefit of the doubt, but "I think he'd have a hard time convincing (a majority)."

"I had an open mind, but I was with Pete so many times when he'd say, 'I bet on everything, but I didn't bet on baseball,' " Robinson says. "I have a hard time thinking about him getting in after that."

It's all about 'second chances'

Stubborn and strong-willed, Rose understands why some people feel the way they do about his transgressions, but he continues to make his case, mostly reduced to one argument: compassion.

"Don't you believe that a guy like me deserves a second chance?" he asks. "Our problem was 17 years ago. If one spouse had killed another spouse, they'd be out of jail by now, right? If so-and-so gets caught with drugs five times, doesn't he get a second chance. Isn't Terrell Owens going to get a second chance? I'm trying to get one — I won't need another."

Rose says he no longer bets on sports games of any kind, although he still enjoys playing the ponies. He spends 15 days a month in Vegas working his memorabilia job, which he says is a "great public relations thing for me."

"Noooo, I don't do no gambling" on teams, he says. "People will see you. Secondly, I don't like it. I don't need to work my ass off and go put it through some (gaming) window. Now I watch games because of certain guys I root for —Brett Favre, Carson Palmer, Bobby Knight. I'm through breaking TVs and making tackles watching Monday Night Football in my living room."

Rose recently told the Associated Press that he "bet on my own team every day." That raised more than a few eyebrows because of its lack of believability. Rose claims that he doesn't recall the first time he bet on the sport, but "nobody believes Pete anymore," says Joe Garagiola, the former player and broadcaster. "The same arrogance that made him a great player is the same arrogance that got him in trouble."

For many years, Rose was a thorn in baseball's side. He would appear in Las Vegas or other casino cities for signings. Or he would show up in Cooperstown, N.Y., the week of induction to sell autographs — even some on striking black baseballs.

Rose has tried to rehabilitate his image through appearances. His rousing ovation before Game 2 of the 1999 World Series during introduction of the All-Century Team was embarrassing for baseball.

"Heidi Fleiss came by to see me — she's a fan," Rose says, laughing. "She (told) us she wants to open a bunny ranch, but the guys are going to be the prostitutes. She said, 'I know more about prostitution than anyone in the world.' I said, 'That's what I read, Heidi.' "

Taking a good look

Rose works his stretch of mall real estate from noon-6 p.m., flying or driving from Los Angeles.

Most purchases are impulse buys. Casual shoppers are shocked to see Rose sitting in the Forum Shops of Caesars. Prices range from $69.99 for autographed 8x10s to $399 for a jersey package that includes a signed photo or ball. He is paid a monthly sum by Mounted Memories and Dreams Inc. His compensation is determined by the business he generates.

Joe Hill, visiting from New Hampshire with his wife and two sons, says Rose is getting a raw deal because baseball is being excessively punitive. "I wouldn't be afraid to pick him as a role model as opposed to any of a dozen guys today. Everybody has skeletons."

Wes Champion of Charlotte says, "Is it worse that Pete was a gambler or that guys took steroids?"

If baseball is concerned Rose's return might cause other skeletons to tumble out or that he might one day be involved in a betting scandal, Rose says, "That was such a long time ago, man. That's the furthest thing from my mind. I would never make that mistake again, not if my life depended upon it.

"I hope baseball's following me around. They're not, but I wish they were, to see the kind of life I've got. All I do is work. Work, travel, sell baseballs. What am I doing today? What is this?" He gestures toward a life-sized Pete Rose photo on the Field of Dreams store window.

"This is baseball," he says.

"This is all I do."

westofyou
01-10-2006, 11:42 AM
The annual January Pete Rose story.

Just like the Swallows and San Juan Capistrano.

Unassisted
01-10-2006, 11:51 AM
It continues to annoy me how disingenuous Bud Selig has been in dealing with this case. :barf:

The fact that Pete is living in LA and dropping Heidi Fleiss' name makes me think he'll be appearing with her on one of those celeb-reality shows any day now. Hey, it worked for Flavor Flav! ;)

Heath
01-10-2006, 11:51 AM
As long as Pete Rose isn't "Dancing with the Stars" - I'm probably ok.

RedFanAlways1966
01-10-2006, 11:54 AM
The annual January Pete Rose story.

And to think that I used to defend this guy. Every January I find myself distancing myself more-and-more from this guy.


Rose says he doesn't believe Selig has a vendetta — "No, not at all. I like Bud" — but he can't help but wonder "What if?"

How about these, Pete...
WHAT IF you hadn't broke baseball's golden rule?
WHAT IF you had come clean right away (or within 10 years of you being caught)?
WHAT IF you came clean without trying to profit from it?
And finally... WHAT IF nobody cared about you and BS anymore?

Chip R
01-10-2006, 11:56 AM
Sava, I don't see a quote from Selig in that story. You might want to change the title of the thread.

westofyou
01-10-2006, 12:00 PM
Heidi Fleiss is opening a brothel with men instead of the ladies... in Nevada.

Pete probably got some jack for mentioning her name.

Damn I'm cynical.

savafan
01-10-2006, 12:02 PM
Sava, I don't see a quote from Selig in that story. You might want to change the title of the thread.


True, not a direct quote:

One Hall of Famer, recounting a talk he had with Bud Selig three years ago, tells USA TODAY that the commissioner said Rose will never be reinstated under his watch. Rose applied to Selig for reinstatement in 1997. There was virtually no movement by baseball's highest office until late 2002 after Selig spoke with several people, including former Rose teammates Joe Morgan and Mike Schmidt.

Selig doesn't have the nerve to just come out and say what everyone else already knows.

Chip R
01-10-2006, 12:15 PM
Heidi Fleiss is opening a brothel with men instead of the ladies... in Nevada.

Pete probably got some jack for mentioning her name.

Damn I'm cynical.

More like realistic.

Hey, those two have something in common. Heidi used to be with Tom Sizemore who played Pete in that ESPN movie.

savafan
01-10-2006, 12:21 PM
More like realistic.

Hey, those two have something in common. Heidi used to be with Tom Sizemore who played Pete in that ESPN movie.

Man, what a wacky world we live in.

Chip R
01-10-2006, 12:26 PM
Man, what a wacky world we live in.

Someone ought to sell tickets.

Reds4Life
01-10-2006, 12:27 PM
Pete no longer bets on sports? Thats interesting, considering he still hangs out in casinos across Vegas, including reports of him being seen in sports books. Pete is his own worst enemy, it takes a special kind of idiot to spend time in the gambling capital of the world while at the same time trying to convince baseball to allow him back in after admitting you bet on baseball.

I used to sympathize with Pete, no more.

flyer85
01-10-2006, 12:46 PM
Selig never to reinstate Rose - now that's a newflash. Took a real Sherlock Holmes to figure that one out. Thanks Mr. Saraceno.

Redsland
01-10-2006, 12:55 PM
True, not a direct quote:
Technically, it's an indirect quote.

It's delivered second hand and without quotation marks.

:beerme:

Cyclone792
01-10-2006, 01:07 PM
Pete no longer bets on sports? Thats interesting, considering he still hangs out in casinos across Vegas, including reports of him being seen in sports books. Pete is his own worst enemy, it takes a special kind of idiot to spend time in the gambling capital of the world while at the same time trying to convince baseball to allow him back in after admitting you bet on baseball.

I used to sympathize with Pete, no more.

One of my cousins sat next to Pete on a plane a couple months ago. Destination? Vegas, of course :laugh:

Unassisted
01-10-2006, 02:28 PM
One of my cousins sat next to Pete on a plane a couple months ago. Destination? Vegas, of course :laugh:That doesn't mean he's gambling. According to the article, he commutes there on weekdays from his home in LA.

deltachi8
01-10-2006, 02:32 PM
Noted mobster Henry Hill said of Rose "He was a degenerate betting with both hands."

The betting with both hands seems to be true....as is the first part of the statement.

What does it say when Henry Hill calls you that?

westofyou
01-10-2006, 02:33 PM
That doesn't mean he's gambling. According to the article, he commutes there on weekdays from his home in LA.

Of course not, when Pete goes to the luggage conveyer he gets these 4 things along with his bag.

A. A Box of Pete Rose 8x10's
B. A Box of Bic Pens (Red)
C. A Card Table
D. A Folding Chair

flyer85
01-10-2006, 02:38 PM
He has pretty much become a carnival sideshow.

MartyFan
01-10-2006, 02:46 PM
Pete makes me sick.:barf:

BoydsOfSummer
01-10-2006, 04:54 PM
At this point I have to be one of the few hundred people left who doesn't have a Rose signature.

flyer85
01-10-2006, 04:56 PM
At this point I have to be one of the few hundred people left who doesn't have a Rose signature.seems to me that unautographed Rose memorabilia may be worth more.

KronoRed
01-10-2006, 08:29 PM
seems to me that unautographed Rose memorabilia may be worth more.
Then I'm gonna be freaking rich

Dom Heffner
01-10-2006, 11:18 PM
The thing is, Rose would never had been reinstated had he admitted this from the get-go. Right or wrong, this has become baseball's cardinal sin.

But if gambling is considered wrong because of its potential to influence results of games, then I just can't ignore the effects of steroids over the past decade, and sort of have to laugh about baseball's response.

How many teams did Ken Caminiti beat the year he won the MVP? Should those wins be considered legitimate?

How about the Oakland A's? We now see that their results were not legitimate.

Pete shouldn't be in the hall, no, but I wish MLB would take the performance enhancing side of things as serious as they do gambling.

The current punishment system is a joke, and perhaps baseball should follow tennis' lead and implement a second offense lifetime ban.

If you're going to be serious about something, be serious about something.

Especially if you are going to ban others for crimes that taint the legitimacy of the results on their first offense.

Caseyfan21
01-10-2006, 11:35 PM
Yawn, seems like a Pete Rose story comes along every 6 months that gets the juices flowing for a couple days. We should all save our "Pete Rose replies" as Word files for easy cut and paste.

Nothing has changed and until Selig addresses it or leaves office nothing will happen. Pete will continue to work his way toward arthritis in his signing hand and the rest of us will fall victim to the slow times of year when the Pete Rose debate embers come back. Just wait, come April will be the next Rose feature on his birthday.

I used to be an adament Pete Rose supporter but it's gotten to the point I really don't care, I just want some finality to the whole mess. Bud needs to make a ruling and clear things up. If you're going to let Pete in the HOF at least give him the courteousy of doing it while he's still alive.

flyer85
01-11-2006, 12:22 AM
With Uebberoth Rose could have negotiated a short suspension(year or possibly even much less) without an investigation ever being done. Pete thought himself above the rules, rolled the dice and lost.

All he had to do was admit some gambling(not on baseball) and association with known gamblers, accepted a suspension and it would have all been over. No Dowd report, no Giamatti, no indefinite suspension.

Dom Heffner
01-11-2006, 12:51 AM
With Uebberoth Rose could have negotiated a short suspension(year or possibly even much less) without an investigation ever being done.

Do you really think so?

I read this in an interesting article about Rose:


If a less-famous or less-popular player bet on the game, he would not even be considered for a second chance. It should be the same for Rose.

In a sense, Rose did receive a second chance. Before his ban, Peter Ueberroth, the commissioner at the time, discovered that Rose was betting on baseball.

Ueberroth was merciful and simply granted him a warning and assured Rose that a lifelong ban would result if he was ever caught again.

Sounds like a year deal wasn't in the works, though I'm sure there is much speculation about that.

http://voice.paly.net/view_story.php?id=1420

Cyclone792
01-11-2006, 01:00 AM
Yawn, seems like a Pete Rose story comes along every 6 months that gets the juices flowing for a couple days. We should all save our "Pete Rose replies" as Word files for easy cut and paste.

Nothing has changed and until Selig addresses it or leaves office nothing will happen. Pete will continue to work his way toward arthritis in his signing hand and the rest of us will fall victim to the slow times of year when the Pete Rose debate embers come back. Just wait, come April will be the next Rose feature on his birthday.

I used to be an adament Pete Rose supporter but it's gotten to the point I really don't care, I just want some finality to the whole mess. Bud needs to make a ruling and clear things up. If you're going to let Pete in the HOF at least give him the courteousy of doing it while he's still alive.

I would also like to see some sort of ruling from Selig one way or the other, but it appears that inaction is action when it comes to Bud on Pete. If Selig had any inclination to reinstate Pete, or at the very least make a ruling allowing him to become eligible for the HOF, then I believe he'd have done so already.

Really, I don't think Rose has any shot at the Hall now ... not in our lifetime. Shoeless Joe Jackson has two things going for him that Rose doesn't, 1) an exceptionally large band of Jackson supporters exist that maintain and argue his innocence, and 2) the simple fact that it was a lifetime ban and Jackson's life has been over for 50 years. It's been 85 years and baseball hasn't changed their stance on Jackson as he's still no closer to the Hall than Pete is despite those two additional points of favor now looming with Shoeless Joe. In two months another book on the Black Sox is due out that also supposedly has new evidence that points in Jackson's favor, but baseball's mindset has long been determined.

Unfortunately for Pete and his chances at reinstatement or the Hall, he's just going to go down the path Joe Jackson's been heading down since 1920.

Michael Allred
01-12-2006, 03:45 PM
Baseball writers no longer can consider the aging Rose for the Hall because his 15-year eligibility period expired in 2005, although in an exclusive interview with USA TODAY he muses, "I don't know how my eligibility lapsed when I've never been eligible."


This to me is an important point, if Rose has never been eligible then truly, how could his time have elapsed?

Also, I will never understand how Rose could be left out of the hall based on what he did as a manager. He would only be seriously considered for induction for what he accomplished as a player and not a manager anyway. So what's the deal then? His rule breaking came after his playing career yes?

westofyou
01-12-2006, 03:49 PM
His rule breaking came after his playing career yes?Investigations began in 1970, this we know.

Chip R
01-12-2006, 03:56 PM
This to me is an important point, if Rose has never been eligible then truly, how could his time have elapsed?

That's an excellent point but it's moot unless Rose decides to press the issue and sues the HOF.


Also, I will never understand how Rose could be left out of the hall based on what he did as a manager. He would only be seriously considered for induction for what he accomplished as a player and not a manager anyway. So what's the deal then? His rule breaking came after his playing career yes?

I think you mean "based on what he did as a player". That's a valid point too since what he did as a player and what he did as a manager should be treated seperately. After all Sparky Anderson didn't get into the HOF based on what he did as a player. But I do believe that Rose was still an active player when some of this took place and there's the rub.

traderumor
01-12-2006, 05:00 PM
Pete Rose Caught Trying To Get Inducted Into Hall Of Fame Under Assumed Name

January 12, 2006 | Onion Sports

COOPERSTOWN, NY—The Baseball Writers Association of America announced that the "former Cincinnati Reds superstar" and "quiet, unassuming model citizen" by the name of "Pat Rosenburg," whose career statistics merited Hall of Fame consideration, was revealed by investigators to be a desperate, mustachioed, glasses-wearing Pete Rose. "When I looked at Pat Rosenburg’s stats—17-time All-Star, three batting titles, tied with Pete Rose for the career hits lead—I had to wonder why this so-called ‘Chuckie Hustle’ wasn’t already in the Hall," said Jayson Stark, who, along with other members of the BBWAA, was informed Wednesday of Pete Rose’s role in the Pat Rosenburg candidacy. "Luckily for the integrity of the game, [Rosenburg] wasn’t elected by voters anyway because he only had 160 career home runs." Rose is expected to fervently deny the allegations that Pat Rosenburg was just him in disguise, as his upcoming tell-all autobiography, My Secret Life As Pat Rosenburg, does not hit stores until late July.

traderumor
01-12-2006, 05:06 PM
Also relevant to Petey:

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20060112/sbl060112.gif

Of course, he was asked to put quotation marks around "Hall of Famer" or to cease and desist.