PDA

View Full Version : Narron: "We don't want anybody inheriting a position"



Phhhl
01-10-2006, 10:01 PM
... unless, of course, it is every position on the club but third base...

The subject is a paraphrase of what I just heard the Reds manager say on Sportstalk when the topic of Edwin Encarnacion came up. Calling RA one of his "better hitters" in terms of getting the bat on the ball, it is pretty apparent that Eddie E. is going to have to hit Sarasota raking to have any chance of making the team out of spring training.

Nothing has me more disgusted this offseason than the re-signing to Aurilia. There is absolutely no reason to have him or Womack on this club in 2006. At the end of last season, I was really looking forward to seeing Eddie E., and maybe even Bergolla if he had a strong spring, break camp and bring a little youth and enthusiasm to the team, if not a division title. Instead, we have a gm and manager who may or may not be lame ducks scratching and clawing at the putrifax and sludge at the bottom of the major league gene pool in some ill-advised desperation move to save their jobs.

After listeneing to Narron tonight, you might as well pencil in Womack and Aurilia at the top of the order on opening day. :rolleyes:

captainmorgan07
01-10-2006, 10:19 PM
Ede will be at third narron is not that dumb he's just telling the media some song and dance somebody will set him straight

Reds1
01-10-2006, 10:22 PM
EE will get lots of time at 3B. They will spread it around, but I"m not going to stress about it yet. A lot can happen. I still see a Wily MO, Kearns, or even Dunn being traded which can open some spots in the OF for Freel, etc. and Aurilia plays a lot at 2nd. We'll see. I have no problem with EE playing 4-5 games a week and Aurilia 2 and then he takes time at 2B, but I don't think this is going to happen. I think something else will pop up.

Phhhl
01-10-2006, 10:35 PM
I hope you guys are right.

LoganBuck
01-10-2006, 10:44 PM
Did I hear him say the Reds signed Frank Catalonatto(sp)? I must have be mistaken because a quick internet search says that he is signed with the Jays through 2006. I definately heard him say they signed someone today.

Heath
01-10-2006, 10:55 PM
Did I hear him say the Reds signed Frank Cattalonatto(sp)?

I love him doing his Harry Caray impersonation...

A very wise, smart man who posts here often made an excellent point about EdE. The Reds need to find out if he's gonna be Mike Schmidt or Kelly Paris. The year needs to be 2006.

If Jerry Narron thinks that RA should be playing at 3b more than ONE time a week, Mr. Narron is an absolute disgrace of a manager.

Here should be the infield starting Opening Day

1b-Dunn
2b-Freel
ss-Lopez
3b-EdE

The next night should be the same - except for
2b-Aurilia

The next game, which is a traditional 12:35 start should mirror Opening Day except for

3b-Aurilia

The weekend series should be the same with 2 of the 3 games with Freel starting and Womack one day.

This should be the rotation whether EdE goes 12 for 20 or 2 for 20 starting.

If Frank Cattalanto is signed, where on a baseball diamond will he go? In the name of Chico Ruiz, how many utility IF's can one team have?

flyer85
01-10-2006, 11:02 PM
Mark it down and I have already said that on opening day Womack will be at 2nd and Aurilia at 3rd

Heath
01-10-2006, 11:04 PM
Mark it down and I have already said that on opening day Womack will be at 2nd and Aurilia at 3rd

and if Milton's the opening day starter, it might be the first opening day that i miss via TV/Radio in 32 years of living.

KronoRed
01-10-2006, 11:26 PM
Mark it down and I have already said that on opening day Womack will be at 2nd and Aurilia at 3rd
Agreed.

The fix is in, EE could hit 1.000 in spring training and they won't start him.

Heath
01-10-2006, 11:27 PM
Agreed.

The fix is in, EE could hit 1.000 in spring training and they won't start him.

....and the way things go around here - (see Lopez, Felipe) - EdE will lose a month. But, the positive would be, that he'll be an all-star. :D

TheBigLebowski
01-10-2006, 11:29 PM
I was infuriated when the Reds didn't deal Aurilia at last year's deadline. There had to be some team who needed a guy like him who would have given up a marginal prospect for him.

I was even angrier when we re-signed him earlier last week. Nonsensical. Baffling. Blood-boiling.

I'm not that angry w/having Tony Womack around, provided his role is properly defined - he is a speed guy who can pinch run, knows enough about hitting to be a fairly decent pinch hitter, and his multi-positional versatility allows us to use him to give a regular IF/OF a night off. Furthermore, we didn't pay much for him.

If there is any truth to this Frank Catalanotto rumor, I'm going to put my head through this monitor.

marcshoe
01-10-2006, 11:30 PM
Well, Mariano Duncan has been named first base coach by the Dodgers, so there goes my guess as to who the next free agent signing will be.

flyer85
01-10-2006, 11:49 PM
I'm not that angry w/having Tony Womack around, provided his role is properly defined - ... Furthermore, we didn't pay much for him.
other than the fact we could get the same level of offensive performance and superior infield defense and save 750K by giving the job to Rey Olmedo and he might even have some upside. Perish the thought.

flyer85
01-10-2006, 11:58 PM
I say give it two years and this organization will make the Royals look good. Pitching will be worse than ever, Dunn will have been traded for nothing prospects, Jr will be on the permanently injured list, and Aurilia and Womack will still be starting everyday.

remdog
01-11-2006, 12:14 AM
"We don't want anybody inheriting a position"

Doesn't that also include the so called manager? :eek:

Rem

Reds1
01-11-2006, 12:29 AM
Is Aurilia so bad of a signing. I think the womack signing is MUCH worse. I don't want Aurilia to take EE spot and put him on the bench, but Aurllia is a decent player. Actually, he was probably one of our best when he came back from his injury. Yes, I agree somewhat of an attitude, but at least he has some fire and wants to play and win. I can't fault anyone for that. I like him better then either Womack and with Freel's little problems I"m not sure about him. He can't play everyday anyways. I think we got him for a decent price and it just seems wierd how much grief he gets. I am hoping it's just the frustration from the fans that we really haven't addressed pitching. Oh to have the young pitchers like Pitt has. We'll see what happens, but I personally don't mind seeing RA in the line up most everyday. He earned some playing time in my opinion from last year.

Unassisted
01-11-2006, 12:44 AM
Seems like a good place to post this article, since it will put out a little brush fire. ;)

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060110/SPT04/301100009/-1/CINCI


Narron: Aurilia gives Reds options

By John Fay
Enquirer staff writer

Reds manager Jerry Narron said today what has been speculated about for some time: Rich Aurilia wasn’t re-signed merely as a utility player. He was signed as an insurance policy if 22-year-old Edwin Encarnacion doesn’t work out at third base.

“We’d love to have Eddie come in and play well,” Narron said. “He played well at times last year. He showed he’s capable of being an outstanding big league player.

“But Richie gives us an alternative.”

Narron, in town for a meeting with his coaching staff, realizes he has a crowd in the infield with Aurilia, Tony Womack and Ryan Freel on the roster and with only one position – second base – open.

But he was all for the Aurilia signing.

“It’s nice to have Richie,” Narron said. “He did a great job for us in a variety of roles. He’ll get a lot of playing time. He’ll play second, third, shortstop and even a little first base.”

Narron sounds like he may not settle on a second baseman. He’ll use Womack at second and short. He’ll use Freel at second and the outfield.

“If everyone stays healthy, guys are probably going to be upset,” he said. “It will take care of itself.”

Narron will take the same approach to the closer job. David Weathers, Kent Mercker and Chris Hammonds will all be at the back end of the bullpen and get save opportunities.

“We’ll go with matchups,” Narron said.

There’s a chance that one of the young pitchers could go into the closer role. Narron mentioned Todd Coffey, Jason Standridge, Allan Simpson and Ryan Wagner as possibilities.

Narron was asked if he was satisfied with the pitching.

He laughed. The Reds finished last in pitching in the National League last year and only added Hammonds, a situational lefty, and Dave Williams, who was 10-11 with Pittsburgh last year.

“The big thing is the guys we have coming back are going to have to be better,” Narron said. “I’m tickled to death with the progress Aaron Harang and Brandon Claussen made last year. I’m looking forward to seeing how Paul Wilson comes back.”

Wilson, who had shoulder surgery June 17, is scheduled to begin throwing off the mound next week.

Wilson and Eric Milton, who were a combined 9-20 last year, have to turn it around for the Reds to have a chance.

Narron said if Wilson’s not ready, the Reds will look at Matt Belisle for the fifth starting spot.

Danny Serafini
01-11-2006, 12:52 AM
Jason Standridge and closer got mentioned in the same paragraph. Wow.

M2
01-11-2006, 01:06 AM
Blaspheme expletiving blapheme, I'm beyond sick and tired of the idiots put in charge of this club. EdE's exactly the kind of young, dynamic player this franchise needs and already they're piling the sandbags around him.

Far as I'm concerned, Castellini can't fire too many people when he takes over the club. What we need is a pink slip massacre and nothing short of it will do.

KronoRed
01-11-2006, 01:07 AM
Is Aurilia so bad of a signing. I think the womack signing is MUCH worse. I don't want Aurilia to take EE spot and put him on the bench, but Aurllia is a decent player. Actually, he was probably one of our best when he came back from his injury. Yes, I agree somewhat of an attitude, but at least he has some fire and wants to play and win. I can't fault anyone for that. I like him better then either Womack and with Freel's little problems I"m not sure about him. He can't play everyday anyways. I think we got him for a decent price and it just seems wierd how much grief he gets. I am hoping it's just the frustration from the fans that we really haven't addressed pitching. Oh to have the young pitchers like Pitt has. We'll see what happens, but I personally don't mind seeing RA in the line up most everyday. He earned some playing time in my opinion from last year.
Best?

He couldn't hit on the road..before or after getting hurt.

Freel is the only lead off hitter we have, Womack is just plain bad.

Rich is going to play over EE and that is a crime.

Jpup
01-11-2006, 04:05 AM
DanO and Narron will be fired before opening day.

Think positive. :D

So, all of you guys clamoring to bring Narron back, where are you now? :dunno:

SteelSD
01-11-2006, 06:21 AM
“But Richie gives us an alternative.”

That's an Eddie Izzard "Cake or Death!" moment if I've ever seen one.

Narron: "Eddie or Rich?"

M2: "Eddie please..."

Narron: "Fine...here you go."

M2: "Thanks. Mmnn...very good this is."

Narron: "Next! Eddie or Rich?"

traderumor: "Um...Rich...NO! I mean Eddie!"

Narron: "Ah-ah-ah! You said RICH!"

traderumor: "Well, I meant to say 'Eddie.'"

Narron: "Oh FINE! You're lucky I'm not Marty Brennaman...NEXT! Oh hello. Eddie or Rich?"

MWM: "Eddie please."

Narron: "Well we're OUT of Eddie!"

MWM: "So my choice is '...OR RICH'???

Narron: "Sent him to AAA. Didn't figure there would be such a run on Eddie."

MWM: "Fine. I'll take FREEL please."

OnBaseMachine
01-11-2006, 07:36 AM
I strongly dislike Jerry Narron and Dan O'Brien. I strongly dislike Jerry Narron and Dan O'Brien. I strongly dislike Jerry Narron and Dan O'Brien. I strongly dislike Jerry Narron and Dan O'Brien. I strongly dislike Jerry Narron and Dan O'Brien. I strongly dislike Jerry Narron and Dan O'Brien. I strongly dislike Jerry Narron and Dan O'Brien.

All I can do these days is :laugh: at how stupid this organization is.

Just trade Dunn, Kearns, Eddie E, and Lopez. It's obvious this organization prefers old crappy vets over good, young ballplayers.

RedsBaron
01-11-2006, 07:42 AM
DanO and Narron will be fired before opening day.

Think positive. :D


I hope so.

membengal
01-11-2006, 08:03 AM
Second verse, same as the first.

We have seen this play out already, last year.

Apparently the Reds' front office dreams of fielding a team that can threaten 73 wins this year.

I remember years where their sights were set considerably higher.

Roy Tucker
01-11-2006, 08:36 AM
I'll post here what I said somewhere else....

Well, as I tell my kids, it all depends.

If Narron gives EE a fair, reasonable, and well-considered shot at 3B, then having Aurilia as a fallback is not an altogether completely stupid thing. It is not a 100% guranteed thing that EE will be the reincarnation of Mike Schmidt. Are there better fallback options? Perhaps. But on the stupid-o-meter, it falls in the "close to reasonable" range.

If Narron gives EE and Aurilia equal shots at earning the 3B job and Aurilia wins because of "veteran leadership", "plays to win", "will to win", "professional at-bats", and "fiercest glare while walking back to the dugout after striking out", well then, we have a problem.

RANDY IN INDY
01-11-2006, 08:52 AM
I'll post here what I said somewhere else....

Well, as I tell my kids, it all depends.

If Narron gives EE a fair, reasonable, and well-considered shot at 3B, then having Aurilia as a fallback is not an altogether completely stupid thing. It is not a 100% guranteed thing that EE will be the reincarnation of Mike Schmidt. Are there better fallback options? Perhaps. But on the stupid-o-meter, it falls in the "close to reasonable" range.

If Narron gives EE and Aurilia equal shots at earning the 3B job and Aurilia wins because of "veteran leadership", "plays to win", "will to win", "professional at-bats", and "fiercest glare while walking back to the dugout after striking out", well then, we have a problem.

Good post, Roy. I agree wholeheartedly.

lollipopcurve
01-11-2006, 09:18 AM
Young players will struggle. Young players need ABs in order to learn so they can stop struggling and gain consistency.

If the Reds can't deal with that, they're going to stink forever.

The lack of vision here in January 06 is amazing.

Heath
01-11-2006, 09:41 AM
I got to get up earlier in the morning.

I'm of the same mind as lollipop.

Roy Tucker - I agree with most of your points. I'm interested in seeing the only ML-ready prospect that the Reds have. They need to stick him at 3b and say "Edwin - you have this job. Show effort and a willingness to learn. Then improve. You get this year.

The one point I disagree with is, yes RA is "fallback" .. but he's not. In his ego-centric washed-up has been mind, its 2001 all over again. There is a reason why 29 other teams passed him up (again).

I think the 2.5 million spent on RA and Womack would have been better spent on a pitching reclimation project & keeping Olmedo & Bergolla. This team isn't going to win the division. Let's find out what the kid can do at 3rd.

Ravenlord
01-11-2006, 10:01 AM
This team isn't going to win the division. Let's find out what the kid can do at 3rd.
however the Reds front office is oblivious to this.

they think last year was the '92 Phillies as opposed to the '03 Tigers.

lollipopcurve
01-11-2006, 10:22 AM
All this talk about player development, and the one bona fide position player prospect to emerge in the 3 years of O'Brien's tenure, who has nothing left to prove in the minors and who was reported to have worked very hard during his stay in the majors last year, and he's told he has to compete with Rich Aurilia for ABs.

Don't talk to me about player development.

Remember, this crew liked Aurilia at SS better than Lopez last year. If Aurilia hadn't gotten hurt, Lopez never would have emerged. I can't believe we're going to see the same thing at 3B. They probably are congratulating themselves that Aurilia provided the competition Felipe needed, and now will provide what EdE needs. Well, Felipe had had LOTS more ABs than EdE, had at least a couple more years in the majors, and was clearly stabilizing. EdE needs another full season of ABs at the major league level before he starts to hammer consistently, in my opinion. If they don't give him that, they're stunting his development and playing games with his confidence.

Somebody stop it.

Unassisted
01-11-2006, 10:23 AM
Looks like I'm on the opposite side of the fence from lollipop. Roy's post reminds me of the recent memory of FeLo's flop at SS 2 years ago when he was handed the job. I'm glad that the FO learned from that mistake. It's a lot easier to remember to work hard for something when you've been told you have to earn it.

deltachi8
01-11-2006, 10:31 AM
Looks like I'm on the opposite side of the fence from lollipop. Roy's post reminds me of the recent memory of FeLo's flop at SS 2 years ago when he was handed the job. I'm glad that the FO learned from that mistake. It's a lot easier to remember to work hard for something when you've been told you have to earn it.

In a pefect world, yes. In a rational baseball world, yes. In Reds world...lets just say this, I firmly believe that EE can have a near perfect spring and be sent to AAA for "seasoning" because they have a "viable alternative" with RA.

Its like putting $5 in my son's pocket in the morning and telling him "Only spend this in an emergency" and him not spending it on ice cream. Ice cream to a nine year old is an emergency, as is using RA on a daily basis to Narron and Dan O.

Roy Tucker
01-11-2006, 10:43 AM
Remember, this crew liked Aurilia at SS better than Lopez last year.


Yeah, but that was Dave Miley. Was DanO and John Allen telling him to do that? Don't know.

I think it will be a very telling thing about his managing style (and ultimate future) to see how Narron handles this situation.

If he understands that EE is a rookie, will have growing pains, 3 steps forward 2 steps back, and is happy with EE showing good progress, then that will earn a few positive points with me.

If he just treats EE and RA as equals and whoever has the last best at-bat gets the next start, well then that's pretty darn stupid.

And EE has to understand that he has to bust his tail, show a good attitude, work hard at getting better, and keep his chin up despite failures. UA made a good point about FeLo a couple years ago. He had an absolutely miserable time of it and really fell flat on his face and played himself out of the position. The Reds need to have a "hope for the best, but plan for the worst" kind of attitude.

lollipopcurve
01-11-2006, 10:54 AM
I think it will be a very telling thing about his managing style (and ultimate future) to see how Narron handles this situation.

I agree 100%.


If he understands that EE is a rookie, will have growing pains, 3 steps forward 2 steps back, and is happy with EE showing good progress, then that will earn a few positive points with me.

Me too.


If he just treats EE and RA as equals and whoever has the last best at-bat gets the next start, well then that's pretty darn stupid.

Darn tootin stupid.


And EE has to understand that he has to bust his tail, show a good attitude, work hard at getting better, and keep his chin up despite failures.

Yes -- and from what we heard last year, he did that. So why "demote" him into direct competition with a guy who's going to chirp about sitting on the bench? I expect EdE to struggle, and I expect Aurilia to grumble about playing time. Terrible recipe.

registerthis
01-11-2006, 11:49 AM
I don't know why anyone expected differently from this club.

Regarding Aurilia-Encarnacion, here' my take on it: I would be much less concerned about the situation if it was, say, Joe Randa backing up EdE rather than Aurilia (not saying Randa would agree to be the back-up, just using his name as an example.) Aurilia has made it clear that he expects playing time, and will whine and moan about it if he doesn't get it. That, and this franchise's history of rushing younger players leads me to believe that RichA is destined to get significant playing time at 3rd next season, unless EdE comes out and literally tears the cover off the ball.

On a fundamental level, there's certainly nothing wrong with having an insurance policy in case a young player crashes and burns. If not to salvage your season, then to potentially salvage the younger player's career. But Rick Aurilia is not the patient veteran who will help guide EdE's progress and be comfortable with a part-time role. He's going to demand playing time, and will be a distraction if he doesn't get it. He's not the kind of veteran the Reds--or Edwin--need at this point. That, in effect, is my biggest problem with this entire deal.

RedsManRick
01-11-2006, 11:58 AM
Having Aurilia on board as a backup IF really makes sense, particulary given his performance last year and reasonable salary. The problem however is the notion that he could take starts away from EE if he struggles just a little. EE has done nothing but draw rave reviews for his work ethic and he had nobody behind him in the system after Randa was dealt. Eddie E had 25 extra base hits in 211 at bats. That's 75 over the course of a full season -- Dunn has had 80 and 75 over the last two years. He also walked 20 times -- 60 walks would've been 2nd on the team last year. He has a cannon for an arm and great range defensively, he just lacks throwing consistency.

This isn't a situation where the guy needs competition. A safety net? That's one thing. But the threat of losing his job if he has a few bad games -- that'll do more harm than good. Unless he's hitting .200 in May after 100 at bats and looks lost at the plate and in the field, Eddie E needs assurance that it's his position.

Furthermore, when he's not in the lineup, Freel should be. Heck Freel should be everyday. I'd rather have him starting, get 400 at bats and have him lose 200 at bats to injury than have him only get 300 at bats b/c he was too fragile to start every day. Ryan Freel had an OBP ~100 points higher than Womack last year. 100 points!! Starting Womack is a crime that should be punishable by firing for gross incompetence.

TRF
01-11-2006, 11:59 AM
Gah!

When we fail to learn from the past we are doomed to repeat it. Or something to that effect. I knew the first time RA was signed he was being brought in to start despite what was said, and FeLo lost a month because of it. Add a month to Felo's numbers and you know what you get? a better year than Jeter, Tejada, and Michael Young. You get the best performance of 2005 out of the SS position. As it was it ended up being pretty darn close.

That's what Rich Aurilia costs you.

In 2006, EE has a chance to build off a good second half, and a strong winter league showing. He's young, rangey, and has a cannon for an arm. He needs to go through some growing pains, but he has good gap power, and his first 69 games were better than Kearns first 69 games of 2005. He has progressed and learned at every level, and is one of the very few Reds Farm hands to progress naturally through the minors.

He's the right age, and it's the right time. But the Reds insist on hiring guys "that know how to win." :angry:

RA will see significant PT in the first month or two, and his numbers will be just deceptive enough to guys like DanO andNarron that he'll likely get increased PT. Example: RA gets the start in a homestand and hits well, as last year proved, he hits at the GABP. Narron wanting to play the hot hand sticks with RA as the reds go on the road. RA goes 3-15 on the road and EE misses 5-7 games getting only PH opportunities. BRILLIANT! What you want to do is slow his development AFTER his arb clock has started.

Anyone think this won't happen?

flyer85
01-11-2006, 12:43 PM
So who will Dunn have to compete with to win the first base job?

M2
01-11-2006, 12:46 PM
Young players will struggle. Young players need ABs in order to learn so they can stop struggling and gain consistency.

If the Reds can't deal with that, they're going to stink forever.

The lack of vision here in January 06 is amazing.

Great post. The one you made after this one was great too.

The Reds seemingly hate the idea of developing young players.

Ravenlord
01-11-2006, 01:05 PM
The Reds seemingly hate the idea of developing young players.
that's because they lack playoff experience and veteran presence.

M2
01-11-2006, 01:41 PM
Looks like I'm on the opposite side of the fence from lollipop. Roy's post reminds me of the recent memory of FeLo's flop at SS 2 years ago when he was handed the job. I'm glad that the FO learned from that mistake. It's a lot easier to remember to work hard for something when you've been told you have to earn it.

I think EdE earned the 3B job last season. Important to remember that FeLo washed out in 2001 and 2002 before the Reds got him for 2003. I submit that if you had seen FeLo in those two seasons with the Jays, you'd have known that he wasn't going to be ready in 2003. Meanwhile Encarnacion had a good season in AAA and then acquitted himself well in the majors in 2005. Obviously, like anyone else, he needs to play well, but he shouldn't have to keep proving himself. IMO he's done more than enough for Narron to say, "Encarnacion's our 3B and we expect continued improvement from him."

Also, the Reds had SS covered when FeLo flopped in 2003, some guy named Larkin was there if memory serves ... Gene, Andy, something like that. The spot the Reds didn't have covered per se was Brandon Larson, though it got covered eventually by Ryan Freel. And that's why Aurilia's a pointless addition. Freel's already in tow if Encarnacion hits the skids. The club just acquired Tony Womack (not that it should have, but it did) and you've got to assume it did so with an eye toward playing him. There's Olmedo and Bergolla beyond Womack to fill in a 2B if Freel has to play 3B. How much backup do you need for a good, young player who's succeeded everywhere he's been?

Beyond resource overkill, it's yet another disturbing signal from an organization that desperately needs to build around youth, but seems unwilling to trust it.

WMR
01-11-2006, 03:40 PM
How much longer will mockeries such as this be allowed in this organization?;

If Aurilia takes away any playing time whatsoever from EdE at third base, well, I would normally say fire O'Brien and Narron, but since I think they should both be fired anyway, I guess I'll just say feel even stronger in my convictions.

Chip R
01-11-2006, 03:53 PM
Good thing DanO and Narron weren't around during the mid 80s.

M2
01-11-2006, 03:57 PM
Good thing DanO and Narron weren't around during the mid 80s.

Exactly. I just don't see how jamming up your younger players in order to play dwindling thirtysomethings amounts to much of a plan. I could understand it if the club had two stud starters (e.g. Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling) who could blow through a postseason if you can get there by hook or crook, but the Reds don't have anything like that.

RFS62
01-11-2006, 04:00 PM
It would be one thing if we were knocking on the door, contending for the playoffs.

But with this pitching staff, and the already prodigious offense, it makes no sense to me. You block development and give up range.

For what? Is Aurilia or Womack the final piece of the puzzle to put us over the top?

EE needs at bats. He needs time in the field. This situation would have to improve a lot just to suck.

registerthis
01-11-2006, 04:04 PM
Exactly. I just don't see how jamming up your younger players in order to play dwindling thirtysomethings amounts to much of a plan. I could understand it if the club had two stud starters (e.g. Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling) who could blow through a postseason if you can get there by hook or crook, but the Reds don't have anything like that.

This point is dead-on accurate. DanO and the rest of the FO are running this franchise as if they're a high-market powerhouse that needs only to tweak the lineup with a couple of aging backups in order to ensure a run for the playoffs.

For a team that will likely finish 20 games under .500 and 30 games out of first, signing players like Aurilia and Womack borders on lunacy.

RedsBaron
01-11-2006, 04:09 PM
For a team that will likely finish 20 games under .500 and 30 games out of first, signing players like Aurilia and Womack borders on lunacy.
I absolutely disagree!!! You are wrong!!!
Signing Aurilia and Womack does not "border" on lunacy. It is way across the "border" and is the very definition of lunacy.;)

registerthis
01-11-2006, 04:10 PM
I absolutely disagree!!! You are wrong!!!
Signing Aurilia and Womack does not "border" on lunacy. It is way across the "border" and is the very definition of lunacy.;)

Very well, I stand corrected.

:)

flyer85
01-11-2006, 04:13 PM
Great post. The one you made after this one was great too.

The Reds seemingly hate the idea of developing young players.either that or they are so deluded they think they can win in 2006 and think Aurilia gives them a better chance(more delusions).

Chip R
01-11-2006, 04:24 PM
This point is dead-on accurate. DanO and the rest of the FO are running this franchise as if they're a high-market powerhouse that needs only to tweak the lineup with a couple of aging backups in order to ensure a run for the playoffs.


At least when DanO and Narron are gone from here they can get jobs working for Dusty Baker. He hates young players too.

BCubb2003
01-11-2006, 04:55 PM
If they handle this right, the Reds will have one of the most solid A lineups in baseball, offensively anyway, with Kearns, Griffey and Pena in the outfield, and Encarnacion, Lopez and Dunn in the infield. Second is the only real hole, and I don't mind if the Reds run through Freel, Aurilia, Womack in that one spot. But I worry that this is an attempt to give the manager a bunch of veterans who can sort of play a lot of positions, and we'll have the random lineup generator every day. If I were the owner, I'd have one expectation of the manager: Find your A lineup and play it.

Cyclone792
01-11-2006, 05:07 PM
At least when DanO and Narron are gone from here they can get jobs working for Dusty Baker. He hates young players too.

Dusty hates young players so much he does everything possible to break'em. Last season, Carlos Zambrano and Mark Prior were 2nd and 3rd in pitcher abuse points (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=69971), respectively.

And then we've got Dusty's favorite game to play, his own little dice game ...

Chip R
01-11-2006, 05:09 PM
Dusty hates young players so much he does everything possible to break'em. Last season, Carlos Zambrano and Mark Prior were 2nd and 3rd in pitcher abuse points (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=69971), respectively.

And then we've got Dusty's favorite game to play, his own little dice game ...

That's great. :lol:

M2
01-11-2006, 05:10 PM
Find your A lineup and play it.

Great advice.

To that effect, Ryan Freel not only gets on base well, he's one of the most effective players in baseball at coming around to score once he does get on base.

If he's on the club he needs to be in the leadoff spot on a daily basis.

REDREAD
01-11-2006, 05:15 PM
I really think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. Remember, Aurillia was lukewarm about resigning because he was going to get no promises of playing time.

I'm no fan of Narron and DanO, but this is a different situation than with Lopez. Lopez was a wild card, and frankly, he NEEDED the push from Aurillia. He spaced out a lot when he was handed the job and took it for granted.

Management loves Encarcion. He'll get plenty of playing time.

Signing Womack and Aurillia for a combined 2.4 million or so is no big deal. Between the two of them, they can backup every position other than C and CF. Womack's OBP skills are poor, Rich's range is bad.. that's why they're cheap backups. Every team in baseball makes pickups like this. Even the smart ones.

If Aurillia does get the majority of playing time at 3b, then blast away, but not even this management is that stupid. Remember, they did bench Aurillia for a good chunk of last year. They will do it again. It's hard to believe I'm one of the few optimists on this, but I do believe the Reds will do EdE right this year. We are so beaten down, we just assume they will do the absolute worst thing in any scenerio :) Sometimes, that is true, but remember the glowing praise they gave EdE last year.

Chip R
01-11-2006, 05:16 PM
Great advice.

To that effect, Ryan Freel not only gets on base well, he's one of the most effective players in baseball at coming around to score once he does get on base.

If he's on the club he needs to be in the leadoff spot on a daily basis.

Nope. Can't do it. Too fragile. Now that Womack guy, he's fast. :rolleyes:

Aronchis
01-11-2006, 05:26 PM
I can't believe this, but I agree with REDREAD. I don't see it. Narron is just giving soundbites. The constant Nihilism get annoying.

westofyou
01-11-2006, 05:29 PM
I can't believe this, but I agree with REDREAD. I don't see it. Narron is just giving soundbites. The constant Nihilism get annoying.The term comes from the Latin nihil, meaning "not anything".

The Reds are 'almost" there.

Cyclone792
01-11-2006, 05:39 PM
I can't believe this, but I agree with REDREAD. I don't see it. Narron is just giving soundbites. The constant Nihilism get annoying.

Nihilists! I mean, say what you like about the tenets of national socialism, Dude. At least it's an ethos.

Like M2 said, if Freel's healthy and on the roster, he should be leading off 150 games this season. He carries a .370 OBP, takes 4 pitches per PA and can swipe 35 bags a year at a near 80 percent clip. There's not much else you want in a leadoff hitter. I won't mind if Aurilia and Womack get a handful of starts this season just to rest the starters, but my belief is each will be garnering far more playing time than they're worth.

M2
01-11-2006, 05:39 PM
Management loves Encarcion. He'll get plenty of playing time.

I don't get that sense at all. Maybe I missed the glowing praise, but most of what I read about him seems to revolve around concerns that he may not be ready. Maybe this is just me being a child of Sparky Anderson, but I kind of expect an organization to gush a little bit about what a kid does well rather than wring its hands over the areas where he's still improving.

M2
01-11-2006, 05:46 PM
I can't believe this, but I agree with REDREAD. I don't see it. Narron is just giving soundbites. The constant Nihilism get annoying.

Golly, I remember hearing that last year when you could see the team handing Rich Aurilia the SS job for no good reason before ST even got rolling. Yeah, it's just soundbites, the Reds wouldn't ever do something crazy like sandbag a promising kid for a dead end veteran like Aurilia.

Puffy
01-11-2006, 05:47 PM
It would be one thing if we were knocking on the door, contending for the playoffs.

But with this pitching staff, and the already prodigious offense, it makes no sense to me. You block development and give up range.

For what? Is Aurilia or Womack the final piece of the puzzle to put us over the top?

EE needs at bats. He needs time in the field. This situation would have to improve a lot just to suck.

I always hate it those two or three times a year when you are dead on correct.

On the bright side, one dead on correct this early in the new year means in the next 11 months you'll only be dead on one more time. So I got that going for me. Which is nice.

Matt700wlw
01-11-2006, 05:48 PM
I'm more worried about the rotation than I am if Aurilia is here or not. Considering none of that money that was supposed to be saved with the Casey deal was used to fix the biggest weakness.....it looks like this:

Wilson
Milton
Harang
Claussen
Williams.



I'm shaking in my shoes.

Joseph
01-11-2006, 05:50 PM
Narron is on with Lance now and is basically saying that they have high hopes for EE but if he doesn't win the job in spring training then he won't be given the job.

IE 3B is open competition just like SS last year.

RFS62
01-11-2006, 05:52 PM
Narron is on with Lance now and is basically saying that they have high hopes for EE but if he doesn't win the job in spring training then he won't be given the job.

IE 3B is open competition just like SS last year.



Yep, and who gets to decide if he's won it or not. Narron? DanO?

Who decided last year when Aurilia won the job over FeLo?

M2
01-11-2006, 06:00 PM
Yep, and who gets to decide if he's won it or not. Narron? DanO?

Well, as we all know, playing better won't do it so unless Encarnacion can figure out a way to make more money than Aurilia he's probably screwed.

BTW, wasn't Aurilia supposedly in the 2B mix at the start of this week? And now Narron's already talking about open competition for the 3B job? The fix, she is in.

PINK ... SLIP ... MASSACRE!

It can't happen soon enough.

Tony Cloninger
01-11-2006, 06:01 PM
Rich Aurilia decides who and what happens on this team.

I can see RA speaking in a Ron Burgundy type voice and tone, in regards to how good he is and how no rookie (like a woman) is going to take his job.

lollipopcurve
01-11-2006, 06:04 PM
Narron is on with Lance now and is basically saying that they have high hopes for EE but if he doesn't win the job in spring training then he won't be given the job.

EdE outplayed Randa in ST last year and got sent to the minors.

They're making c**p up to cover for roster-building gone awry. Unless things change, I do believe ST will be held in the Keystone precinct.

westofyou
01-11-2006, 06:09 PM
Narron is on with Lance now and is basically saying that they have high hopes for EE but if he doesn't win the job in spring training then he won't be given the jobGot's to get some bats on the ball says Jerry ...I bet. Now who to subtract?

EE 1 K/3.5
RA 1 K/6.5

Look for a play to be on if the lead off guy gets on on Opening Day.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel

Puffy
01-11-2006, 06:16 PM
So, most likely, our new configuration will be: Dunn at first, Womack at second, Lopez at short, Aurilia at third. Pena in left, Junior in center and Kearns in right. LaRue behind the plate.

Harang, Claussen, Milton, Williams, and Wilson.

Worse defense, pitching the same? Oh yeah, the Reds aren't going to have a 1,000 spot thrown on them this year. :rolleyes:

registerthis
01-11-2006, 06:48 PM
I'm more worried about the rotation than I am if Aurilia is here or not. Considering none of that money that was supposed to be saved with the Casey deal was used to fix the biggest weakness.....it looks like this:

Wilson
Milton
Harang
Claussen
Williams.


God, it looks so pathetic when you put them all in a row like that.

Eric_Davis
01-11-2006, 06:51 PM
I'd rather have Fernando Vina than Aurilia....at least it would have been a minor league contract that's not guaranteed.

TRF
01-11-2006, 07:00 PM
73 posts about EE's playing time. several pages about RA getting 1.3 mil to be a statue. Just what management wanted: fans talking about something other than the dreadful pitching.

Johnny Footstool
01-11-2006, 07:30 PM
I just don't see how jamming up your younger players in order to play dwindling thirtysomethings amounts to much of a plan.

It's working out well for the Royals...

membengal
01-11-2006, 08:28 PM
Narron is on with Lance now and is basically saying that they have high hopes for EE but if he doesn't win the job in spring training then he won't be given the job.

IE 3B is open competition just like SS last year.

Nice to get confirmation of the warranted suspicions. Remember, just because we are paranoid doesn't mean that DanO isn't out to get us.

So. much. anger.

And, to everyone trying to put an as-long-as-Aurilia-is-a-backup-I'm-fine-with-it spin on this, that sounds like me from a year ago when I could not fathom that they would actually sacrifice at-bats from Lopez for Aurilia. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame, very much so, on me.

I have actually grown to truly loathe, in the deepest Puffy sense of the word, Dan O'Brien and John Allen. Actually loathe them. Bordering on pure hate.

What makes me maddest is not only are they bleeding the anticipation out of the baseball season for me right now, but I cannot even really look forward to watching a genuine talent like EdE play consistently. Now I get to cringe every time he makes an out in the spring, every time he boots a ground ball, with the sure refrain from Marty to echo in my ears..."You can't do that when you are trying to win a job." Yeah.

I saw EdE in the spring last year in Sarasota, like so many others, and was shocked at how the ball jumped off of his bat, and at how much power he generated in general.

The thought of him losing at-bats to Aurilia, or them putting enough pressure on him that he presses if he starts slow etc., thereby allowing them to justify this insanity, well, that's just sickening.

Team Clark
01-11-2006, 08:55 PM
Narron was asked if he was satisfied with the pitching.

He laughed.

It was either laugh or cry... 50/50 in front of the camera.

Reds1
01-11-2006, 09:21 PM
Best?

He couldn't hit on the road..before or after getting hurt.

Freel is the only lead off hitter we have, Womack is just plain bad.

Rich is going to play over EE and that is a crime.


I can't say I don't agree with anything here except I do think EE will get some starts and I"m hoping the majority, but it depends on injuries and such. Freel has proven he can't stay healthy and Womack is just plain bad. At least from what the Reds say they will play Aurilia at all IF positions even 1st. Did you catch that?

KronoRed
01-11-2006, 09:40 PM
1st base so Womack can play...dandy ;)

KronoRed
01-11-2006, 09:40 PM
So who will Dunn have to compete with to win the first base job?
With Rich again probably

Marc D
01-11-2006, 10:47 PM
I have actually grown to truly loathe, in the deepest Puffy sense of the word, Dan O'Brien and John Allen. Actually loathe them. Bordering on pure hate.


That pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.

RFS62
01-11-2006, 10:55 PM
Look at what we've been reduced to.

This is the hot stove league for Reds fans.

RFS62
01-11-2006, 10:57 PM
PINK ... SLIP ... MASSACRE!

It can't happen soon enough.



Dear God, I hope you're right.

Heath
01-11-2006, 11:35 PM
Look at what we've been reduced to.

This is the hot stove league for Reds fans.


We are on page 5 of a thread of our manager 'round these parts who can't commit.

And not one word on an Adam Dunn LTC.

Heath
01-11-2006, 11:36 PM
I'm more worried about the rotation than I am if Aurilia is here or not. Considering none of that money that was supposed to be saved with the Casey deal was used to fix the biggest weakness.....it looks like this:

Wilson
Milton
Harang
Claussen
Williams.



I'm shaking in my shoes.


At least when it gets bad at my house, It might get shut off.

At your work - if you shut it off - 50,000 watts and 38 states go silent.

:evil:

savafan
01-12-2006, 01:30 PM
If I'm a Reds fan, then why does it always feel like I'm a Cubs fan?

deltachi8
01-12-2006, 03:25 PM
All I know is the day the Bobs show up after the ownership change cant come soon enough.

M2
01-12-2006, 03:47 PM
If I'm a Reds fan, then why does it always feel like I'm a Cubs fan?

If only we were as drunk as Cubs fans.

Matt700wlw
01-12-2006, 05:44 PM
At least when it gets bad at my house, It might get shut off.

At your work - if you shut it off - 50,000 watts and 38 states go silent.

:evil:


By August....nobody may notice :evil:

Matt700wlw
01-12-2006, 05:45 PM
If only we were as drunk as Cubs fans.

Or as dumb. :devil:

wheels
01-12-2006, 06:04 PM
WOnder how many times Rich'll start at first over Adam Dunn because a lefty is starting?

Don't think for a minute that it won't happen.

KronoRed
01-12-2006, 09:35 PM
I'd say at least 10.

KronoRed
01-12-2006, 09:35 PM
If I'm a Reds fan, then why does it always feel like I'm a Cubs fan?
Nah, we don't enjoy losing, they do.