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realreds1
01-12-2006, 09:43 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10826927/from/RS.3/

Palmer’s injury could be ‘career-ending’
'It’s not just like it was a torn ACL,' doctor says of Bengal QB's knee

Updated: 7:53 p.m. ET Jan. 12, 2006

CINCINNATI - Carson Palmer’s knee injury was “devastating and potentially career-ending,” involving numerous ligament tears, a shredded ligament, damaged cartilage and a dislocated kneecap, his surgeon said Thursday.

The Cincinnati Bengals quarterback tore ligaments in his left knee when he was hit by Pittsburgh’s Kimo von Oelhoffen on his first pass during the Steelers’ 31-17 playoff victory Sunday.

The team announced that he had torn the anterior cruciate and medial collateral ligaments. The damage was much more extensive and severe, but Dr. Lonnie Paulos said surgery went well and Palmer could be back for the start of the season.

Palmer had surgery Tuesday in Houston. Doctors used grafts from other parts of his body and donated tissue to fix the damage during an operation that lasted more than two hours. Palmer headed back to California on Thursday to do his rehabilitation.

“It’s not just like it was a torn ACL,” Paulos said Thursday, in a phone interview from Houston. “It’s a magnitude more difficult to recover from and repair. It can and has ended careers, without a doubt.

“However, I feel very comfortable with Carson as an athlete and the heart that he’s got. In the end, that’s the bottom line. I can see the look in his eye already. He’s ready to get going.”

Paulos, an orthopedic surgeon who has worked with the U.S. Ski Team since 1983, replaced the anterior cruciate ligament, which runs through the middle of the knee and provides stability. He said the medial collateral ligament, which runs along the side of the knee, was damaged “real bad.”

“On a scale of 1 to 3, it was a 4,” he said. “It was off the chart. It was pretty badly damaged — shredded is the better term.”

The kneecap dislocated when Palmer was hit, damaging tissue around it. There also was some cartilage damage, he said.

Paulos was able to repair the knee without removing pieces of cartilage or soft tissue, a good sign.

“The things that were torn could be repaired,” he said. “They were not torn beyond repair. So he’s got all his parts in there, which is good. We’re optimistic, actually.”

If rehabilitation goes well, Palmer could be running in a couple of months and might be able to play in the first regular season game, Paulos said. The 2006 schedule hasn’t been set.

Palmer has worn a protective brace on the left knee since he sprained it near the end of the 2004 season. The knee bowed inward on von Oelhoffen’s hit even though Palmer was wearing the brace,

“The brace didn’t function well in this environment and should have done better than it did, frankly,” Paulos said.

The plan is for Palmer to wear more substantial braces on both knees when he returns.

“No brace is perfect,” Paulos said. “No brace can prevent every injury, but they do help.”

Paulos saw the replay of the injury and wasn’t surprised at the extent of the damage it caused. Palmer has absolved von Oelhoffen, saying he didn’t think the lineman was trying to hurt him. The lineman said he was trying to sack Palmer, not injure him. He wasn’t penalized for the hit.

Palmer made the Pro Bowl in only his second season as a starter, throwing an NFL-leading 32 touchdown passes. The club extended his contract through the 2014 season.

Jon Kitna, who has been Palmer’s backup and mentor the last two years, can become a free agent. Palmer’s injury will force the Bengals to make sure they have another reliable quarterback on board.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

GAC
01-12-2006, 09:49 PM
Man, I hope, and believe, he will come back from this. Surgery is not really the problem. It's in the recovery time, and getting the individual back to where they were before the injury. That does take time.

UKFlounder
01-12-2006, 09:52 PM
It seems like there are conflicting reports about this. Hopefully the more positive ones are the correct ones.

Reds Fanatic
01-12-2006, 09:55 PM
This report is probably the most accurate because it is coming from the doctor himself. The problem with the previous reports was they were coming from the team or some spokesman. This is the 1st time the doctor himself has talked about it and it does not sound very good.

Falls City Beer
01-12-2006, 10:19 PM
Honestly, I can't even fathom how awful this must be for you Bengals fans. Damn.

deltachi8
01-12-2006, 10:27 PM
Trying to be optomistic, sometimes MDs set the bar high, so that when a person exceeds the expectations, or are on a path to, they feel more confident and stick to rehab better, etc.

When my son was born, he was 7 weeks premature. They told us he woul dbe in the hospital 6-8 weeks. Talking with a nurse i found out that they always say your target release date (unless they feel it will be longer than that) is the original due date. That way, if you go home early you feel like your child is stronger than he/she should be. If you go home right at that time, its waht was expected and you dont worry too much.

My guy was home in 10 days, but I never told my then wife what the nurse told me. Her buy in to the "stronger than they thought" aspect was important to her nerves.

I dont know, just a thought.

Cedric
01-12-2006, 10:28 PM
Every ACL surgery could be career ending. Carson will come back and he will be fine.

Falls City Beer
01-12-2006, 10:30 PM
Every ACL surgery could be career ending. Carson will come back and he will be fine.

I hope so. He's incredibly fun to watch. I tune in to watch guys like that.

Cedric
01-12-2006, 10:40 PM
I just worry about him standing in the pocket and planting that front leg to deliver a pass. I guess that will take time. My friend that works for an orthopedic surgeon said not to believe half of what you hear from sports doctors in something like this. Unless it's James Andrews it could very easily be someone looking for exposure and credit for "saving" Carson from such a monstrous injury. I'm not sure that's totally the case, but sounds reasonable.

Reds4Life
01-12-2006, 10:58 PM
I really hope he can come back from this. Palmer is a genuinely nice guy, and about as humble as the come, it would be horrible to end a career this way, especially one with so much potential.

:(

wheels
01-12-2006, 11:05 PM
It's all so freaking unbelievable.

This might be the worst week of my life as a sports fan.

Thank goodness the Bengals have a guy like Marvin Lewis at the helm, otherwise, all would be lost.

TeamBoone
01-12-2006, 11:07 PM
It stinks.

POSTED: 6:01 pm EST January 12, 2006
UPDATED: 7:09 pm EST January 12, 2006


Palmer's Knee Injury Worse Than First Thought
Three Ligaments Torn; Tendon Dislocated

CINCINNATI -- Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer's knee injury is worse than previously thought, News 5 Sports Director Ken Broo reported.

Dr. Lonnie Paulos, who operated on Palmer in Houston, said the quarterback tore three knee ligaments, not just two, and dislocated his patella tendon, which keeps the knee cap in its proper place.

Paulos thinks Palmer can beat the nine-month goal to get back on the field but admitted that it'll be tricky.

"This is a big deal," he said. "I mean, it's many times a career-ending injury for some athletes. … You can put things back together, but they have to heal and rehab properly."

Palmer will work on rehabilitation in Los Angeles.

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/sports/6035186/detail.html

wheels
01-12-2006, 11:19 PM
Here's Will Carrol's take on it:

Carson Palmer
Carson Palmer had one of the most heartbreaking injuries in recent history last weekend, blowing up his knee on his very first playoff pass attempt. Palmer clearly had a “Terrible Triad” injury – ACL, MCL, and meniscus – from the first second Kimo von Oelhoffen rolled onto his leg and had surgery Tuesday to repair it. He’ll do his rehab in California and, with Daunte Culpepper coming back from similar problems, it will be a big year to see just how far things have come with ACL surgery. While the initial reports have Palmer coming back for training camp, that’s an aggressive time frame. While players have returned to function in that span, few if any have full explosion and power from the affected leg. The good news, if you can call it that, is that Palmer’s not exactly a threat to run and it’s his front (left) leg rather than the push-off leg. I’ll be surprised if Palmer starts the season, but he’ll likely earn at least some of the first year salary in his big new contract.



So, it looks like the meniscus was also shredded.

Sigh....

KronoRed
01-12-2006, 11:21 PM
What I hope they do is take it SLOW, I know it stinks but it might be better to plan for 07 and not rush him back this year.

pedro
01-12-2006, 11:25 PM
This really sucks.

StillFunkyB
01-12-2006, 11:41 PM
I just don't even have words.

OnBaseMachine
01-12-2006, 11:41 PM
This really hurts. I have followed Carson's career since his freshman days at USC. Not only is Carson a great player, but also seems like a great guy. I hope to see him bounce back to where he was before the injury...and that is as one of the best players in the NFL.

Cedric
01-12-2006, 11:43 PM
You guys are writing his eulogy? The headline got you guys. Mcgahee came back from a worse injury at RB! I know we are fans of the Bengals and the Reds and expect the worst lol, but quit being so pessimistic.

CTA513
01-12-2006, 11:47 PM
The article on Bengals.com says "Doc optimistic Palmer can start season".


Although his patient suffered what he called “severe ligament damage,” Carson Palmer’s surgeon is optimistic that the Bengals quarterback can return in time for the start of the regular season.

Dr. Lonnie Paulos also said Thursday that much hinges on the next few months of rehab and how it heals, “things that are really out of my control and Carson’s control. We need to give it a few months. But he’s got an excellent chance to be back playing as well as he did before.”

Paulos says the normal time frame for recovery for reconstructive knee surgery is nine to 12 months, but he thinks Palmer will be back “long before that,” even though he called it an atypical tear of the anterior cruciate ligament.

“The knee cap slipped off to the side and caused some damage,” Paulos said. “It’s not the usual ACL tear, but we don’t believe this is going to be a career-ending injury. Really, it comes down to rehab and determination, and knowing Carson, he’s going to do what he has to do.”

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5019

Cedric
01-12-2006, 11:50 PM
CTA- What if the media had made that the headline? It's all in the hype.

LoganBuck
01-12-2006, 11:57 PM
Dr. Paulos was on with Furman, he shared all the horrors, and then added "he should be back for training camp". I think some of this is "Doctor Talk". Prepare everyone for the worst, Accept nothing less than the best. I dare say that Carson Palmer is the highest profile, most expensive athlete to date to suffer such an injury.

The Bengals would be well served to bring in a backup that has a reasonable expectation to actually lead the offense. Palmer's Stable Pony, John "Mittens" Kitna, is not that guy.

deltachi8
01-13-2006, 12:00 AM
Ill give you Tommy Maddox. OK, I'll even pay for the train, er, bus ticket to get him there. ;)

wheels
01-13-2006, 12:02 AM
David Carr's available.:rolleyes:

KronoRed
01-13-2006, 12:31 AM
David Carr's available.:rolleyes:
I think the bengals should go after someone..you know..who is good

;)

macro
01-13-2006, 12:36 AM
from bengals.com:

“I believe and regret that media reports, based on interviews with me, have misinterpreted my view of Carson Palmer’s knee injury. Though the injury was serious, the essential facts remain his ACL and MCL have been repaired. I would consider this a typical MCL-ACL football injury. My comments attributed to me that the knee injury was, “devastating and potentially career ending,” were meant to describe such injuries in general, not Carson’s particular case.

“I was accurately quoted by the Associated Press that my bottom line is optimism regarding Carson’s prognosis. With a successful rehabilitation program, he has an excellent chance of being medically cleared for play at the beginning of the 2006 NFL regular season.”

Cedric
01-13-2006, 12:46 AM
Knew that would happen. Thanks Macro.

macro
01-13-2006, 12:54 AM
Our friends at profootballtalk.com had some very interesting insights into all of this...

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm


POSTED 10:36 p.m. EST, January 12, 2006

PALMER DOC OUT OF LINE

There's a feeling in league circles that Dr. Lonnie Paulos should have kept his piehole clamped shut regarding the severity of the knee injury suffered by Carson Palmer.

According to The Associated Press, Dr. Paulos called the injury "devastating and potentially career-ending."

Yikes.

"On a scale of one to three, it was a four," he said. "It was off the chart. It was pretty badly damaged -- shredded is the better term."

Said one league source, the comments are "reason number one for not allowing doctors to talk."

"It's not just like it was a torn ACL," Paulos said. "It's a magnitude more difficult to recover from and repair. It can and has ended careers, without a doubt."

So why would the doctor speak so publicly, and in such negative terms?

Easy. If Palmer plays again, it's because Paulos is the next James Andrews.

And if Palmer isn't recovered by the start of the 2006 season, Paulos's butt is tucked warmly under a blanket of "it wasn't my fault."

Also, there's a certain element of ego at work here, in two ways. First, the doctor has gotten his name out. With Dr. Andrews of Birmingham still the go-to guy when it comes to orthopedic injuries -- and given that Dr. Andrews recently had a heart attack -- a guy like Paulos surely would like to fill the niche.

Second, don't overlook the the fact that Palmer's agent, David Dunn, is still trying to reel in USC's latest Heisman-winning quarterback, Matt Leinart. The potentially devastating injury to Palmer comes on the heels of Dunn's negotiation of a long-term extension that puts a lot of money in Palmer's pockets in the short term. Put simply, Dunn can use the injury to Carson as proof that Dunn pulled off a shrewd move, since it's highly unlikely that the team would have given Carson the deal now, in light of the cloud of uncertainty now surrounding his future.

savafan
01-13-2006, 02:15 AM
I'm hearing that Cincinnati may sign Tim Couch. That news may just be getting floated out there to motivate Carson to rehab properly.

oregonred
01-13-2006, 04:30 AM
Dr Paulos sounds la bit like Doc Hollywood... Should have kept his mouth shut.

Say the injury is really, really bad to cover any issues and when Palmer recovers fine then he's a hero. Whether he can be ready in Sept or early october is the big question. Will be more psychological than anything else

Take comfort in that McGahee's injury was far worse and he now takes a physical pounding 25-30 times a game at the most physically demanding position in the NFL.

This whole thing has been a mess and I'm surprised the national media isn't making more of a big deal about the questionable hit that put one of the NFL's few premier QB's in this position

Caveat Emperor
01-13-2006, 04:51 AM
This whole thing has been a mess and I'm surprised the national media isn't making more of a big deal about the questionable hit that put one of the NFL's few premier QB's in this position

I think, because it was the playoffs and the Bengals were eliminated (read: made yesterday's news), this magnitude of all this really hasn't sunk in. Carson Palmer is the rarest kind of franchise quarterback that elevates the play of everyone around him -- in just one year, he established himself as probably one of the 3 best quarterbacks in the NFL, behind only Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. Even the chance that his rise has been curtailed by this injury should be enough to depress ANY NFL fan, regardless of what team they root for.

The NFL is facing a serious problem -- as the players get bigger, stronger, and faster it'll become more and more difficult to prevent these kinds of catastrophic injuries to key players. The Quarterback position presents special problems due to the way they leave their bodies exposed while completing the throwing motion and due to the general dearth of talent at the position across the NFL. The NFL surely doesn't want to see it's most marketable stars, such as Palmer, under the knife and out for a season, and nobody pays good money to watch guys like Brooks Bollinger and Anthony Wright throw passes.

Something should be done -- what, exactly, I do not know...

dsmith421
01-13-2006, 05:22 AM
Delightful.

Now 2006 may well be down the tubes. With the schedule we play, there's absolutely no way Kitna can take us to the playoffs. Bengals must sign a strong-armed quarterback who can take advantage of our wideouts. Maybe Kurt Warner...

Either way, congrats Steelers fans, looks like your dominance continues. Some people get all the freaking luck.

paintmered
01-13-2006, 07:05 AM
I'm hearing that Cincinnati may sign Tim Couch. That news may just be getting floated out there to motivate Carson to rehab properly.

As of a few weeks ago that was false. They gave him a tryout and realized pretty quickly he was uncapable of throwing anywhere near an NFL level.

traderumor
01-13-2006, 07:46 AM
You know, Sportscenter put a byline under footage of Palmer and said the same thing this thread title does, which is incredibly misleading. The doctor basically said, generically, that EVERY knee injury of this magnitude COULD be career-ending. That's little more than CYA talk. He gave much more optimism for this specific case.

Johnny Footstool
01-13-2006, 10:47 AM
I'm with you, tr. The article headlines are extremely misleading.

This looks like a case of the media taking the three or four most shocking words from the doctor's quote out of context and creating a must-read headline.

Tony Cloninger
01-13-2006, 11:48 AM
Before the 1979 season...the Lions lost their starting QB (I think it was Gary Danielson...not in CP class, but he was decent)

They went 2-14 in 1979 with 6th rd pick Jeff Kolmo.........they were favored to win the division that year, with their Silver Rush defense of Doug English, Al Baker.

They get 1st pick in the draft and take RB Billy Sims. They go 9-7 the next year... 8-8 in '81. Make playoffs in 82-83.

What is the point of this story......... only that i hope this injury, even if CP comes back next year, will force Lewis and the org. to seriously invest in some FA defensive players, so that the offense is not forced to carry this team and CP is not looked at as the only way they win anything.

traderumor
01-13-2006, 12:37 PM
Ill give you Tommy Maddox. OK, I'll even pay for the train, er, bus ticket to get him there. ;)Maddox wasn't looking half bad at one time from the smack I remember hearing from Steelers fans after watching Kordell for a few years. Now, he's a putz. Amazing what watching a real QB play does to change perceptions.

deltachi8
01-13-2006, 01:54 PM
Maddox wasn't looking half bad at one time from the smack I remember hearing from Steelers fans after watching Kordell for a few years. Now, he's a putz. Amazing what watching a real QB play does to change perceptions.

I never liked Maddox for several reasons. He had early success in Pittsburgh because there was no book on him, but teams figured him out quickly. I never thought Kordell should have been pulled in 2002...now I was wrong on that, but I wish it was someone other than Maddox who got the shot at succeeding Kordell.

But thats another topic. As for Palmer, I'm glad some of the hype is going away and that it truly looks like he will be ready in 2006. He is a special talent and should be fun to watch the next 10 years or so.

Reds Fanatic
01-13-2006, 09:09 PM
Reports are the Bengals are looking at Matt Schaub of the Falcons and Jamie Martin of the Rams as possible backups for Carson. The Falcons want a 2nd round draft pick in exchange for Schaub.

Caveat Emperor
01-14-2006, 04:18 AM
Reports are the Bengals are looking at Matt Schaub of the Falcons and Jamie Martin of the Rams as possible backups for Carson. The Falcons want a 2nd round draft pick in exchange for Schaub.

It might come as blasphemey to some, but (as a Buccaneers fan) I think the Falcons would be a more dangerous team if they dealt Vick somewhere and put Schaub in as the quarterback.