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TRF
01-13-2006, 01:23 PM
I've been trying to think of a way to make this work better, and I think I have an idea. And no, scrap it altogether isn't what I had in mind.

First off it should run strict until the halfway mark of each leagues respective season. Over the ASB, the coaches evaluate all the pitchers, determine who based on performance is likely to end up as a MLB starter or reliever then in the second half SLOWLY increase the starter's number of pitches. Just stretch him out a little. After the AS Break, The starters would no longer pitch in relief, just normal side sessions. Each league will have strict pitch counts in the first half, with the second half slowly increased to the next level's pitch count by the end of the season.

This will acclimate the SP to the next level (ex. High A to AA) while not increasing the workload to quickly. This should run from Rookie to High A with AA having a cap on starters of 90-100 pitches, and AAA should be evaluated on a pitcher by pitcher basis as it is often staffed with older pitchers an rehab assignments.

This will benefit the relievers too. Guys that lack that third pitch and are likely not going to get it won't waste development time trying to develop into something they aren't. There is nothing wrong with spending 3-4 years developing top notch reliever.

Ravenlord
01-13-2006, 02:53 PM
i agree somewhat. there still isn't enough evidence floating about showing the tandem system reduces injury, but logically it should. however, i think the tandem system should only be implemented if the organization's plan is to implement a 4-man rotation.

given how young arms develop and mechanical issues and what have you, i'd like to see the system implemented in the short season, Rookie league, and Low A teams. make High A the jump from a tandem system to a 4-man rotation. pitchers are creatures of preperational habit and it seems utterly assinine to me to use a tandem system anywhere in the minors when you are organizationally a 5-man rotation system...it's akin to trying to cause arm injuries (usually in the form of strain and fatigue) to me.

savafan
01-13-2006, 03:16 PM
I know it's not the Reds main concern, but I've heard a lot of Dragon fans in Dayton complain about the tandem starter program because a pitcher is going along having a good game, gets pulled and the next guy gets shelled and they leave him in and the game is out of reach. Several people I've talked to said they'll stop going to Dragons games if the team isn't playing to win. Now I know that winning isn't necessarily the point of minor league teams, but it's still nice for the fans to see a winning game.

Heath
01-13-2006, 03:29 PM
Its basically a plan that tries to keep them physically fit while blowing them out mentally or psycholgically.

Ravenlord
01-13-2006, 03:30 PM
Its basically a plan that tries to keep them physically fit while blowing them out mentally or psycholgically.
i think that's only the case if you're going from tandem to 5-man rotation.

Doc. Scott
01-13-2006, 03:43 PM
The tandem starter system may preserve arms, but it hurts results. Without "correct" results it's even harder to evaluate talent, and a *lot* harder to trade talent to get what you need. It puts even more pressure on the scouts/tools people to know what they're seeing. Then there's the impact it has on the pitchers themselves.

I'd rather just see a strict Oakland-style 90-100 pitch count placed on every starter and the bullpen used as a bullpen.

ochre
01-14-2006, 01:57 PM
Its hard to say which is the true culprit: pitch to contact, or tandem starter system.

Spitball
01-15-2006, 10:14 AM
Its hard to say which is the true culprit: pitch to contact, or tandem starter system.

These are not culprits. These ideas have considerable merit, though they are debatable. Dan O is the true culprit.