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redsfan30
01-16-2006, 02:10 PM
Updated: Jan. 16, 2006, 12:47 PM ET
Porter on refs: 'I felt they were cheating us'ESPN.com news services


Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker Joey Porter is not known to shy away from a microphone, and that might make him a little lighter in the wallet after his comments after Sunday's game against the Indianapolis Colts.

When Troy Polamalu's fourth-quarter interception was overturned by referee Pete Morelli, Porter felt the Steelers were facing opponents on two fronts: the Colts and the refs.

"I know they wanted Indy to win this game," Porter told The New York Times. "The whole world loves Peyton Manning, but come on man, don't take the game away from us.

"I felt they were cheating us. When the interception happened, everybody in the world knew that was an interception. Don't cheat us that bad. When they did that, they really want Peyton Manning and these guys to win the Super Bowl. They are just going to straight take it for them. I felt that they were like 'We don't even care if you know we're cheating. We're cheating for them.' "


Porter said he was relieved in more ways than one when Colts kicker Mike Vanderjagt missed a 46-yard field goal try with 21 seconds left that would have tied the score.

"The way the refs were going, I wouldn't have trusted them in overtime," Porter told the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. "If we hadn't won, they would have cheated us in overtime."
:rolleyes:

Porter is quickly becoming one of my least favorite players.

kbrake
01-16-2006, 02:22 PM
The refs were pretty bad in that game yesterday, but the Steelers won, they need to quit crying and move on. Let's just hope Denver shuts them up next week.

deltachi8
01-16-2006, 02:30 PM
Unfortunately, I dont think a severe case of lock jaw would shut Mr. Porter up. He would still find a way to say stupid things.

He played a terrific game yesterday, perhapps his best all season, just let your play speak for itself.

--a steeler fan

RedFanAlways1966
01-16-2006, 02:33 PM
Hmmmm.... I wonder if this will draw a fine? I do not think you can say things like this as an employee of the NFL (I am sure Joey would tell you that the NFL works for him).

Gee, Joey, do you remember a game one week prior to this game? The game where a defensive pass interference was called on a safety for the opposition despite replays showing there was absolutely no interference. This despite the fact that your WR (some former QB from Indiana) dropped the ball in the endzone. This terrible call gave your team a first-and-goal at the 5-yd.-line.

As a matter of fact... why don't we look at the penalties in that 1st round game. Your "refs hate us team" had 6 for 39 yards (or 6.5 yards per call). The opponent had 7 for 90 yards (12.86 yards per call). Gee, I wonder who the home team was in that game? Of course 40 of those 90 yards against the other team were due to that pathetic call mentioned above.

And then we saw no call on the pushing and shoving (better known as pass interference) done to the opponent's #84 in that same game in the endzone. Remember... right before 4 of your tough-guy DBs ganged up on that #84 in the endzone. 4 against 1... tough-guys!

Well, well... should we even mention the 15-yard penalty against Odell Thurman in the regular season and then the NO CALL on Kimo? Yep, that will further prove how smart and accurate you are, Joey.

Does Joey think The Bus is wearing black-n-white stripes under his Pittsburgh uniform? I am sure it was the fault of the refs that Jerome coughed it up and about lost the game w/ a 1:00 left in the game.

Oh well. It is Joey Porter. I forgot to consider the source. Maybe Joey's mad at the fact that he only has 5 tackles in the 2 playoff games thus far. I would venture to guess that there are special teamers w/ more tackles than that. :devil:

savafan
01-16-2006, 03:14 PM
Why is it you never hear rumor about Steeler players taking a swing at Bill Cowher in the locker room? Because all of the Steeler players walk out alive.

TeamSelig
01-16-2006, 07:55 PM
Actually the interception call was horrible, and it seemed blatantly obvious they were trying to help the Colts.

Should Porter say that? Probably not. Colts are my #2 team, but the refs screwed over the Steelers on that call. It did make the game alot more interesting though.

Caveat Emperor
01-16-2006, 08:03 PM
Why is it you never hear rumor about Steeler players taking a swing at Bill Cowher in the locker room? Because all of the Steeler players walk out alive.

And because the players know that when it comes to a dispute between themselves and Bill Cowher, Steelers management views them as replaceable whereas Bill Cowher is the face, brain, and heart of the franchise.

That's what loyalty to a good coach buys you, among other things: an understanding that it really IS his way or the highway.

GAC
01-16-2006, 08:41 PM
Please forgive me - because I respect all of you - but are you listening to yourselves?

You're telling him to stop his crying and whining, and to move on. Yet what were many of you doing last week?

If Chad Johnson or Marvin Lewis does it - it's excusable. If Joey Porter or Cowher does it - they're A-holes.

The officiating in that game yesterday was atrocious. If Indy had ended up winning that game because of the bad officiating, that would have been an injustice IMO. And I'm not a Steeler fan!


Why is it you never hear rumor about Steeler players taking a swing at Bill Cowher in the locker room? Because all of the Steeler players walk out alive.

Yeah, but some of those "rumors" were coming from former Bengal players (Latham and Boomer). Latham said players in that lockerroom confirmed to him that it occurred. Personally, I could care less. But "something" happened in that halftime, and it involved Chad Johnson, that really deflated this team in the 2nd half. And I don't think it was because they were simply bummed out over Palmer's injury.

captainmorgan07
01-17-2006, 05:18 PM
as a person who lives in close area to pittsburgh but hates the steelers joeyporter needs to shut up no wonder he gets in fights before the game tell u the truth i think joey needs to back up his smack i haven't seen him make any highlight plays lately one days he's gonna kick that dirt for his celebration and fall on his butt then he'll shut up

dougdirt
01-17-2006, 07:22 PM
:rolleyes:

Porter is quickly becoming one of my least favorite players.

I feel exactly the same way. Roethlisberger also is climbing up that list, he is a cry baby if things dont get perfect for him.

redsfan30
01-17-2006, 10:54 PM
I feel exactly the same way. Roethlisberger also is climbing up that list, he is a cry baby if things dont get perfect for him.
I'm with you on Big Ben. I've got some friends at Miami who say his junior year he was his own biggest fan. For some reason, the backwards hat on the sideline rubs me the wrong way too.

deltachi8
01-17-2006, 10:57 PM
I'm with you on Big Ben. I've got some friends at Miami who say his senior year he was his own biggest fan. For some reason, the backwards hat on the sideline rubs me the wrong way too.

Ken Griffey Jr says hi...:griffey: :wave:

Boss-Hog
01-17-2006, 11:39 PM
I'm with you on Big Ben. I've got some friends at Miami who say his senior year he was his own biggest fan. For some reason, the backwards hat on the sideline rubs me the wrong way too.
Ben left after his junior year

GAC
01-18-2006, 09:52 AM
As I've stated, I'm not a Steeler fan, but I don't see where Big Ben has a pattern of being a whiner.

redsfan30
01-18-2006, 10:41 AM
Ben left after his junior year
Thanks for correcting.....I meant to say junior year, but was thinking his last season and senior year got typed.

Boss-Hog
01-18-2006, 10:46 AM
Thanks for correcting.....I meant to say junior year, but was thinking his last season and senior year got typed.
I graduated from Miami the same year Ben declared for the draft. I've seen him around campus a million times, but don't know the guy personally, but I've heard similar things about him...

RedFanAlways1966
01-18-2006, 11:53 AM
As I've stated, I'm not a Steeler fan, but I don't see where Big Ben has a pattern of being a whiner.

Not to pick on you, GAC (well, maybe)... who are Browns fans rooting for in the AFC Championship game this weekend?

Broncos... "the fumble" (Earnest Byner) & "the drive" (John Elway). 2 Super Bowl appearances in their hands and then swept away like the unsinkable Titanic. The pain and the memories that have never-ever seemed to go away (20 years later) for those Dawgs.

Steelers... their life-long numero-uno rival. Only Bengals fans in the SE part of Ohio think different, but it is true that PITT is their number one hated rival.

Dom Heffner
01-18-2006, 01:47 PM
Steelers... their life-long numero-uno rival. Only Bengals fans in the SE part of Ohio think different, but it is true that PITT is their number one hated rival.

Gosh, RFA. You are so right on this. My friend was checking out a girl at the bar the other day and he says, "What about her? You think she's hot?"

She was wearing a Hines Ward jersey, so the answer was "No" without even seeing her face.

I about tackled one girl who was wearing a Polamalu shirt. I was going to bring her down by her hair.

SteelSD
01-18-2006, 02:58 PM
As I've stated, I'm not a Steeler fan, but I don't see where Big Ben has a pattern of being a whiner.

He doesn't. He's got one ill-advised comment about the Thurman hit. The guy has played through multiple leg injuries and what was most likely a hairline fracture of the thumb on his throwing hand this season. That's throwback warrior type stuff. They guy has seen loads of both NFL success and adversity and has handled it like champ. Doesn't make excuses. Doesn't point fingers at his teammates. 23 years old.

After his bad day versus the Jets in the playoffs last year:

"I did everything I could to lose the game," Roethlisberger said. "I've got to play better. That was terrible. The game we played today is not going to cut it."

Obviously the words of a constantly whining prima donna.

deltachi8
01-18-2006, 03:07 PM
I about tackled one girl who was wearing a Polamalu shirt. I was going to bring her down by her hair.

what are you a Raven?

:-)

Dom Heffner
01-18-2006, 08:50 PM
what are you a Raven?

Oh dear gosh, no. I wouldn't even get a piece of furniture my girlfriend wanted for the house because it was that awful purple color the Ravens use.

I was so happy the day Trent Dilfer signed with them so then I could have an even bigger reason to hate him.

I even tore a story out of an Edgar Allan Poe book because of the title.

Okay, that didn't happen, but I would if I read Poe.

;)

GAC
01-18-2006, 09:09 PM
Not to pick on you, GAC (well, maybe)... who are Browns fans rooting for in the AFC Championship game this weekend?

Well... since Brown fans hate both the Steelers and the Broncos, it's probably a coin toss. But not with me. I really can't explain it Jeff, but I do respect the Steelers organization. I have since the days of Bradshaw, Steel Curtain, and Knoll. And I have always respected the Rooney family. I'm not gonna hate (or show jealousy) for an organization being well run. I'm not a fan of Cowher; but you gotta respect what the guy has accomplished in his 13 years as a coach.


Broncos... "the fumble" (Earnest Byner) & "the drive" (John Elway). 2 Super Bowl appearances in their hands and then swept away like the unsinkable Titanic. The pain and the memories that have never-ever seemed to go away (20 years later) for those Dawgs.

Which is why I'm rooting for the Steelers. ;)

Do Bengal fans hate the 49er? ;)

I'm a loyal AFC Central guy (even though it's different today). Yeah, on any given weekend I'm rootin' for my Browns to kick the crap out of the division rival. But whoever from that division makes the post-season, I'm rooting for them.

I can't stand Denver and especialy John Elway. Ever since he came out of college and screwed Baltimore when they drafted him. IMO, college players, and I don't care how good you are, should have that kind of leverage. That is the purpose of the draft. So it's just not that he has always screwed us. I've always thought he was a punk.

And I think the same about Eli Manning. Be thankful you've even got the opportunity to play in the NFL. I think there should be a rule that if a kid refuses to sign with the team that drafts him, they should not be able to enter the league (re-enter the draft) for 2 years.

GAC
01-18-2006, 09:11 PM
Gosh, RFA. You are so right on this. My friend was checking out a girl at the bar the other day and he says, "What about her? You think she's hot?"

She was wearing a Hines Ward jersey, so the answer was "No" without even seeing her face.

I about tackled one girl who was wearing a Polamalu shirt. I was going to bring her down by her hair.

Date much?

I'd hate to see what you'd do to a girl with a Ben Roethlisberger T-shirt! :lol:

Dom Heffner
01-19-2006, 12:59 AM
I'd hate to see what you'd do to a girl with a Ben Roethlisberger T-shirt!

Why, I'd make her take it off.

Where's a rim shot when you need it.

(I'll be appearing at the Airport Holiday Inn through the weekend- two shows on Sunday)

My girlfriend told me today that I am a "Commodian."

Because, you guessed it, my jokes belong in the toilet.

I'd never heard that one before. It will fit in perfectly with all my other bad ones (which you can hear at the Airport Holiday Inn....)

SteelSD
01-19-2006, 03:57 AM
Joey Porter won't, reportedly, be fined for his comments about the officiating on Sunday.

Referee Pete Morelli reportedly had a rock thrown through the window of his house. Unless that rock was thrown by the league office with a pink slip attached to it, that's unacceptable.

Jaycint
01-19-2006, 09:36 AM
Do Bengal fans hate the 49er? ;)



Why yes, thanks for asking. ;) More specifically Joe Montana and John Taylor.

GAC
01-19-2006, 10:18 AM
Joey Porter won't, reportedly, be fined for his comments about the officiating on Sunday.

Referee Pete Morelli reportedly had a rock thrown through the window of his house. Unless that rock was thrown by the league office with a pink slip attached to it, that's unacceptable.

It was probaly Ben. And it did have a pink slip attached saying "If you're gonna reverse calls like that then you may as well wear a pink slip. " :lol:

Danny Serafini
01-19-2006, 11:09 AM
I feel exactly the same way. Roethlisberger also is climbing up that list, he is a cry baby if things dont get perfect for him.

Ben's soft. Every other week he turns up with a new boo-boo that he needs Bill Cowher to kiss and make all better. It's like the end of last year, when he was running around telling people he had a broken foot, only to have the team say it wasn't. He puffs out his chest and acts like a warrior because he fights through the bruises to play 12 games a year. If he plays 10 years in the NFL, I'd bet he plays all 16 games in only 3 or so.

Johnny Footstool
01-19-2006, 11:11 AM
Referee Pete Morelli reportedly had a rock thrown through the window of his house.

Did he rule it an incomplete pass?

SteelSD
01-19-2006, 12:04 PM
Did he rule it an incomplete pass?

No, but after further review, Morelli determined that the window did not maintain possession of the rock long enough for it to really be broken.

gonelong
01-19-2006, 12:15 PM
He doesn't. He's got one ill-advised comment about the Thurman hit. The guy has played through multiple leg injuries and what was most likely a hairline fracture of the thumb on his throwing hand this season. That's throwback warrior type stuff. They guy has seen loads of both NFL success and adversity and has handled it like champ. Doesn't make excuses. Doesn't point fingers at his teammates. 23 years old.


Maybe its just me, but he seems to have a penchant for letting you know when he is hurt, however, don't worry ... he will bravely fight through it.

/cut to play-by-play guy ... "What a warrior"!
// cut to gonelong watching the game ... <barf>

GL

SteelSD
01-19-2006, 12:59 PM
Ben's soft. Every other week he turns up with a new boo-boo that he needs Bill Cowher to kiss and make all better. It's like the end of last year, when he was running around telling people he had a broken foot, only to have the team say it wasn't. He puffs out his chest and acts like a warrior because he fights through the bruises to play 12 games a year. If he plays 10 years in the NFL, I'd bet he plays all 16 games in only 3 or so.

Yeah, I guess playing with a splint on one's broken throwing hand is really just little more than a scratch. The guy plays injured and through pain whenever he can to help his team. If that's "soft", I'll take an entire roster of "soft" football players. I've never heard someone try to spin a guy who plays hurt consistently into being "soft" before. That's nearly BF Adam Dunn-hate level stuff.

And if you haven't figured it out yet, teams would rather not have players publicize injuries because doing so actually helps their opponents. Roethisberger broke his toes in college and figured that he did it again late last season. Cowher didn't say that he wasn't injured. All he did was try to minimize the potential damage by downplaying how injured his foot might be. And Ben played along after his initial comment.

Still waiting to hear from you about how the overturned Polamalu INT was still obviously the right call now that the league issued a statement about how Morelli screwed it up. I believe your words were, "And God forbid an official actually enforce a rule as written in the rulebook."

SteelSD
01-19-2006, 01:15 PM
Maybe its just me, but he seems to have a penchant for letting you know when he is hurt, however, don't worry ... he will bravely fight through it.

/cut to play-by-play guy ... "What a warrior"!
// cut to gonelong watching the game ... <barf>

GL

Not sure what "penchant" you're referring to. After the "broken toes" incident, I haven't seen Roethisberger do anything but get with the program of downplaying an injury unless it were impossible to do so (thumb splint kinda gives it away).

I don't mind a reasonable amount of dislike for the guy from Bengals fans. That's understandable. Heck, he's the QB of the team you guys hate who played a near-flawless game against the Bengals while knocking them out of the playoffs. Heck, if Carson Palmer would have survived and led the Bengals over Pitt, I'd probably be going on about what a wussy pre-game rally cry his "Lets put a hurtin' on the Steel Curtain" was. When I heard that, I couldn't really think of anything but competitive knitting. ;)

Danny Serafini
01-19-2006, 01:45 PM
Yeah, I guess playing with a splint on one's broken throwing hand is really just little more than a scratch. The guy plays injured and through pain whenever he can to help his team. If that's "soft", I'll take an entire roster of "soft" football players. I've never heard someone try to spin a guy who plays hurt consistently into being "soft" before.

Too bad he doesn't actually fit the play through the pain model of yours. He played 14 games last year, and dropped to 12 this year. Not the stuff of heroes. And lets be real here, lost of players in the NFL play hurt. Plenty of guys are playing through worse pain than Ben. But most of those guys don't run around and remind everyone of what they're playing through whenever they can. A true tough guy doesn't need to go around reminding people how tough he is.


And if you haven't figured it out yet, teams would rather not have players publicize injuries because doing so actually helps their opponents. Roethisberger broke his toes in college and figured that he did it again late last season. Cowher didn't say that he wasn't injured. All he did was try to minimize the potential damage by downplaying how injured his foot might be. And Ben played along after his initial comment.

This argument would have some merit if it weren't for the timing. Roethlisberger didn't make his broken toe comment until after his season was over. What would be the team's reason for covering an injury after the season was over? Especially one that would heal well before the next season and would have no effect on the next year. All it was was Ben trying to look like a warrior and bring attention to himself for being a supposed tough guy. The fact that the team called him out on it was actually amusing. It had nothing to do with hiding an injury from opponents, because there were no more opponents when those statments came out.


Still waiting to hear from you about how the overturned Polamalu INT was still obviously the right call now that the league issued a statement about how Morelli screwed it up. I believe your words were, "And God forbid an official actually enforce a rule as written in the rulebook."

Nope, it wasn't the right call. In fact, if you read my posts I felt it was a bad call until I heard an explanation which turned out to be wrong. Oh well, got some bad info on that one.


That's nearly BF Adam Dunn-hate level stuff.

It's funny you throw the BF accusation at me. If anything you've shown to be the anti-BF when it comes to the Steelers. As rational, unbiased and well thought out you are on the baseball side of things, when it comes to the Steelers everything comes from the "fanboy" perspective. All is glorious in Pittsburgh, the Steelers can do no wrong and the entire world is out to steal the glory that is rightfully theirs. If you step back a little and give the team an unbiased look outside of your fanship you'll see a different picture.

deltachi8
01-19-2006, 01:53 PM
Not to point out the obvious, but the reason Ben played 14 games in 2004 was because he wasnt the starter until maddox was hurt in week 2.

Ben does complain a bit too much about his injuries for my taste, but I always remember he is 23, and will continue to grow as a leader and player.

SteelSD
01-19-2006, 02:37 PM
Too bad he doesn't actually fit the play through the pain model of yours. He played 14 games last year, and dropped to 12 this year. Not the stuff of heroes. And lets be real here, lost of players in the NFL play hurt. Plenty of guys are playing through worse pain than Ben. But most of those guys don't run around and remind everyone of what they're playing through whenever they can. A true tough guy doesn't need to go around reminding people how tough he is.

As deltachi mentioned, Roethisberger didn't begin 2004 as the starting QB so i fail to see how any truly objective rationale would downgrade him to "soft" for that.

Secondly, I've yet to see Roethisberger do anything like "...reminding people how tough he is..." That exists only in your head.


This argument would have some merit if it weren't for the timing. Roethlisberger didn't make his broken toe comment until after his season was over. What would be the team's reason for covering an injury after the season was over? Especially one that would heal well before the next season and would have no effect on the next year. All it was was Ben trying to look like a warrior and bring attention to himself for being a supposed tough guy. The fact that the team called him out on it was actually amusing. It had nothing to do with hiding an injury from opponents, because there were no more opponents when those statments came out.

Gee. Maybe Cowher and Co. didn't want NEXT season's opponents to think that a broken foot could possibly be a recurring issue? Maybe Cowher didn't want that body part to be a target? NFL coaching staffs are pretty darn protective of their players to the point of near-insanity.


Nope, it wasn't the right call. In fact, if you read my posts I felt it was a bad call until I heard an explanation which turned out to be wrong. Oh well, got some bad info on that one.

Oh, I read your posts. You initially called it something akin to the worst replay call you'd ever seen. Then after hearing one guy defend it, your position immediately flipped to the point of vehemently defending the Morelli call while my position remained constant and completely focused on how the rules applied to the call.

You appear to think that my constancy is a sign of bias and that your dramatic flip-flop is evidence of objectivity. I think it's exactly the reverse.

Your problem wasn't bad information. It was immediately latching on to that bad information without so much as considering that the information you were relying on ran contrary to the rules of the game.


It's funny you throw the BF accusation at me. If anything you've shown to be the anti-BF when it comes to the Steelers. As rational, unbiased and well thought out you are on the baseball side of things, when it comes to the Steelers everything comes from the "fanboy" perspective. All is glorious in Pittsburgh, the Steelers can do no wrong and the entire world is out to steal the glory that is rightfully theirs. If you step back a little and give the team an unbiased look outside of your fanship you'll see a different picture.

Despite your attempts to build a row of strawmen you think are whispering something to you, you're not the guy who's on the right side of the "objectivity" fence. You have now demonstrated enough of a pattern for me to completely understand your agenda- particularly after trying to use games Roethisberger couldn't have played in as evidence of his "softness".

gonelong
01-19-2006, 02:50 PM
Secondly, I've yet to see Roethisberger do anything like "...reminding people how tough he is..."


I guess that depends on team your rooting for. Last weekend, at a poker game I was in, a Colts, several Bengals, a Vikings, several Browns, and a Broncos fan all commented on it. The lone Pittsburgh fan just didn't see it. Go figure.

GL

SteelSD
01-19-2006, 03:09 PM
I guess that depends on team your rooting for. Last weekend, at a poker game I was in, a Colts, several Bengals, a Vikings, several Browns, and a Broncos fan all commented on it. The lone Pittsburgh fan just didn't see it. Go figure.

GL

Did they have any actual examples to share or was it more of just kind of a feeling you all had?

Just wondering.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/steelerslive/s_296897.html


Roethlisberger had minor rib and knee injuries, but he denied any serious problems, cryptically answering a question about his thumb by saying, "I'm fine. I'll definitely be healthy by next year."

Sure doesn't seem like the behavior of a guy who has a history of playing up his injuries. I've seen the media do it when looking for something to write or talk about. But that's true for any star athlete.

So yeah, maybe that conversation you had was dependent on the teams fans root for. But maybe not so much in the way you're thinking.

RFS62
01-19-2006, 05:11 PM
competitive knitting.

*snortle*

Danny Serafini
01-19-2006, 05:38 PM
As deltachi mentioned, Roethisberger didn't begin 2004 as the starting QB so i fail to see how any truly objective rationale would downgrade him to "soft" for that.

Brain fade on that. He didn't play the first game for that reason, but he did miss a game late in that season due to injury. I only missed by one game. He's no ironman, despite your attempt to make him out that way.


Secondly, I've yet to see Roethisberger do anything like "...reminding people how tough he is..." That exists only in your head.

Hey, if you choose to keep the blinders on and not see what's apparent to plenty of others, then go right ahead. Whatever helps you sleep at night.


Gee. Maybe Cowher and Co. didn't want NEXT season's opponents to think that a broken foot could possibly be a recurring issue? Maybe Cowher didn't want that body part to be a target? NFL coaching staffs are pretty darn protective of their players to the point of near-insanity.

Please. Do you honestly think a broken toe isn't going to heal in 8 months? And on the off chance it was still a problem it would become apparent fairly quickly. The first time he took the field gimping on a bad foot other teams would figure it out, despite anything Bill Cowher said.


Oh, I read your posts. You initially called it something akin to the worst replay call you'd ever seen. Then after hearing one guy defend it, your position immediately flipped to the point of vehemently defending the Morelli call while my position remained constant and completely focused on how the rules applied to the call.

Now that's funny. I merely posted the conversation as I heard it. The interviewee turned out to be passing bad info. Sorry. I'm assuming my vehement defense would be the "And God forbid an official actually enforce a rule as written in the rulebook" line. Here's what I was defending - calling the rules as they are actually written, not ignoring ones that don't feel right. Another poster had brought up the theory that, like the tuck rule, it never actually gets called on the field, so why call it this time. My line was in response to that. Now it turns out that the particular rule discussed was in error. But it's immaterial, the discussion was about theory, calling the rules as they are written, as opposed to not bothering with the difficult or obscure ones. Nice attmept on your part to try and twist my words, but it didn't work.


You appear to think that my constancy is a sign of bias and that your dramatic flip-flop is evidence of objectivity. I think it's exactly the reverse.

Being consistant doesn't make you objective. It just makes you consistant in your bias. And you've shown a very consistent bias in all matters Pittsburgh.


Your problem wasn't bad information. It was immediately latching on to that bad information without so much as considering that the information you were relying on ran contrary to the rules of the game.

I don't own a copy of the official rulebook. In fact you yourself said how closely guarded it is. I took the word of someone who represented himself as having actually read the rule. You can't tell me that I, or you yourself, was relying on info contrary to the rules when you hadn't seen the rule in question.


Despite your attempts to build a row of strawmen you think are whispering something to you, you're not the guy who's on the right side of the "objectivity" fence. You have now demonstrated enough of a pattern for me to completely understand your agenda- particularly after trying to use games Roethisberger couldn't have played in as evidence of his "softness".

Any farmer would be proud to have the batch of strawmen you've created out in his field, it's a pretty impressive bunch. It's interesting that you've managed to understand my agenda, considering I honestly don't have one. I know you like conspiracy theories and all (after all, the refs were conspiring to steal the game away from the Steelers - now there's an objective viewpoint!), but there really isn't anything here. All I've done is join in a couple discussions about football. It's obvious however, that you have no interest in any kind of impartial, unbiased discussion whenever Pittsburgh is involved. So I'm bowing out of this debate. It simply isn't worth the time and effort. Enjoy your blind devotion to the Steelers. There really isn't anything wrong with that, just don't try and pass it off as some sort of impartial, unbiased truth when it's not.

SteelSD
01-19-2006, 05:52 PM
competitive knitting.

*snortle*

LOL! I'm sorry, but that battle cry was so silly it actually hurt me to hear it.

The Bengals players repeated it for Palmer, but it had the resonance of an "Mmmmnnnnn..." after the first bite of a turd sandwich.

It was as if they came to play a football game and a Dr. Suess rhyme-fest broke out beforehand.

Palmer: "Let's put a hurtin' on the Steel Curtain."

Thurman: "I do not like that big fat Bus. I do not like Troy's hair a-muss."

Rudi: "I really hate the Steelers now. I want to beat them bad- and how!"

CJ: "Three first-half catches is much a slight. I'll have to find a coach to fight!"

Marv: "Big Ben cries and Porter's rude. But if Carson goes down, MAN WE'RE SCREWED!"

SteelSD
01-19-2006, 07:03 PM
Brain fade on that. He didn't play the first game for that reason, but he did miss a game late in that season due to injury. I only missed by one game. He's no ironman, despite your attempt to make him out that way.

Strawman #1. I noted that he's consistently played with pain- never that he's not missed any games due to injury. But missing games with real injuries doesn't make a guy "soft".


Hey, if you choose to keep the blinders on and not see what's apparent to plenty of others, then go right ahead. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

And as soon as you've done some actual research to demonstrate that he's got a history of making all sorts of wild claims as to the severity of his injuries, you might be able to make a case.

"Apparent" is only such if it can be demonstrated to be so. Plenty of folks who are completely wrong get together all the time to talk about how right they are. Check out the Reds board on mlb.com.


Please. Do you honestly think a broken toe isn't going to heal in 8 months? And on the off chance it was still a problem it would become apparent fairly quickly. The first time he took the field gimping on a bad foot other teams would figure it out, despite anything Bill Cowher said.

Strawman #2. My point wasn't that his foot wouldn't heal- only that it's common for teams to hide even minor injuries. And that happens regardless of when the injury occurs. NFL teams are very protective of their players. They don't want other teams and/or players to isolate an injured area and/or create a scenario in which an injury can be perceived as recurring. Certainly you can understand the "why".


Now that's funny. I merely posted the conversation as I heard it. The interviewee turned out to be passing bad info. Sorry. I'm assuming my vehement defense would be the "And God forbid an official actually enforce a rule as written in the rulebook" line. Here's what I was defending - calling the rules as they are actually written, not ignoring ones that don't feel right. Another poster had brought up the theory that, like the tuck rule, it never actually gets called on the field, so why call it this time. My line was in response to that. Now it turns out that the particular rule discussed was in error. But it's immaterial, the discussion was about theory, calling the rules as they are written, as opposed to not bothering with the difficult or obscure ones. Nice attmept on your part to try and twist my words, but it didn't work.

But that's not what happened. You weren't just an innocent bystander "reporting" information that was passed along to you. You got bad information but were all too willing to not only report it- but also position it as 100% fact. You didn't think twice about it. That's a significantly different dynamic than if you simply cut-and-pasted a transcript of the conversation without adding your own comments or assumption of truth.

You jumped into the conversation (calling other folks' musing "garbage" and later "nonsense"), said one thing, immediately reversed your field when the first half-thread of evidence popped up that allowed you to do so. And then after the NFL issued an immediate response that ran contrary to your new truth? You disappeared.


Being consistant doesn't make you objective. It just makes you consistant in your bias. And you've shown a very consistent bias in all matters Pittsburgh.

Your first mistake was the assumption of bias. That was wrong of you and it's shaded your judgment from the start.

You began the conversation assuming bias. Bad idea because then the bias shifted to you. And it's stayed there from then to now.

"Reasonable" doesn't define JUST your opinions. If you'd have simply stated that you didn't think a "conspiracy" was a reasonable viewpoint, you might not have been typing so long. But no. You went further and you know that.


I don't own a copy of the official rulebook. In fact you yourself said how closely guarded it is. I took the word of someone who represented himself as having actually read the rule. You can't tell me that I, or you yourself, was relying on info contrary to the rules when you hadn't seen the rule in question.

I knew the dictionary definition of "possession" on that play. Now you're trying to tell me I didn't? Cute. I, millions of football fans, every commentator on the planet, any coach who's ever lived, and everyone else save for one shlub who popped up on the Tony Kornheiser show knew that Polamalu had already established possession.

So who do you listen to? The one schlub on the Kornheiser show. Yeah. Everyone, their mother, their cat, and their goldfish is telling you one thing but as soon as one guy pops up to say otherwise, you don't question his motives, reasoning, or credibility before positioning his opinion as being absolute fact.

Reasonable? I'd say not.


Any farmer would be proud to have the batch of strawmen you've created out in his field, it's a pretty impressive bunch. It's interesting that you've managed to understand my agenda, considering I honestly don't have one. I know you like conspiracy theories and all (after all, the refs were conspiring to steal the game away from the Steelers - now there's an objective viewpoint!), but there really isn't anything here. All I've done is join in a couple discussions about football. It's obvious however, that you have no interest in any kind of impartial, unbiased discussion whenever Pittsburgh is involved. So I'm bowing out of this debate. It simply isn't worth the time and effort. Enjoy your blind devotion to the Steelers. There really isn't anything wrong with that, just don't try and pass it off as some sort of impartial, unbiased truth when it's not.

Oh no. You misunderstand me. You have the whole time. My position was never that the officials were "anti-Steelers"- only that the game was most definitely called "pro-Colts". I don't think the Colts opponent played into it one bit last Sunday- even though I've seen enough league apology letters sent to Pittsburgh to last me three lifetimes.

And yes, this debate is a dead end as long as you keep assuming that any position contrary to yours is obviously driven by fan bias. You're so completely stuck on that point (have been since the beginning) that no amount of evidence to the contrary will dissuade you. You wouldn't allow it because it's the crux of your entire argument even if it could be done. But it can't because doing so would involve proving a negative.

So it's easy for you to keep calling me "biased" over and over again as if you think if said enough, it'll make it true. Good luck on that.

deltachi8
01-19-2006, 08:12 PM
Ben missed the last game of 04 as it was meaningless game in Buffalo. Cowher sat him same may Marvin sat Carson in KC.

GAC
01-19-2006, 08:43 PM
To me, a "soft" player would be one who wouldn't be on that field playing because of a "hangnail" injury. You know - like a Corey Dillon or Leon. Someone show me where Ben has done that?

gonelong
01-19-2006, 11:02 PM
Gonelong:
Maybe its just me, but he seems to have a penchant for letting you know when he is hurt, however, don't worry ... he will bravely fight through it.



Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger said Tuesday that he came out of his rookie year with some broken toes, a tired arm and a body beaten down -- mentally and physically -- by the rigors of the longest football season of his life. "The body definitely started to wear down,"
...

"But, mentally, it started to wear on me a little bit, physically a little bit."
...

"My arm got a little tired,
...
Physically, it just wears on you a little bit."
... "It's weariness from the whole season," .
...
"No excuses," he said of the weariness that set in this season. "I have to be able to push on, and I think it will help me be more prepared for next year."



Thanks for the link.

I'm not saying the guy isn't a darn good quarterback, he is just a bit melodramatic for my tastes. Now, if he was "my" quarterback, I'd probably be willing to let is slide.

GL

SteelSD
01-20-2006, 02:23 AM
Thanks for the link.

I'm not saying the guy isn't a darn good quarterback, he is just a bit melodramatic for my tastes. Now, if he was "my" quarterback, I'd probably be willing to let is slide.

GL

Any one of a thousand NFL players have said the same things Roethisberger did in that article about the effect of a long season of NFL play.

I'd let those comments "slide" if they came from the mouth of Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Roger Staubach, John Elway, or Eli-freakin'-Manning. Well, I wouldn't need to let them "slide" because there's nothing to let "slide".

Roethlisberger didn't overstate any injury in that interview. All he said was that, yes, the NFL season is a grind and, yes, it wears you down and, no, that's no excuse for bad play and, yes, he'd be fine and considered it a learning experience.

Then the guy comes into the 2005 season. Consistently plays hurt, injured, and with significant pain. Sits out only when forced to. Starts games with a splint on his throwing hand. Never once goes all nutty about how much that hurts or how he was able to overcome that. Never set himself up as a folk hero. Not once.

gonelong
01-20-2006, 10:24 AM
Roethlisberger didn't overstate any injury in that interview.

I never said he overstated an injury. He just seems to let you know that he is injured.

The one that really rubbed me the wrong way was the on-field, pre-game interview where a side-line reporter approached him about his hand. He was suprisingly quick to show it off and talk about it and went so far as to put both his hands side-by-side, on camera, so the reporter could compare.

My neighbors and I have a rule when we golf. You have to make your pre-round excuses before you tee-off for them to "count". You see a bunch of 30-somethings talking about their stiff back, bad knee, etc. and then we play our round. Don't play so well? Ah, its that dang slipped disc, can't rotate properly. Played great? My knee felt pretty decent today for a change (don't expect it to next week though).

IMO, and I am not alone, Big Ben would fit right in with our squad. :)

You don't think so, fine. We both look at the same incomplete set of information and come to different conclusion. It happens. Quite frankly, this is one boring discussion. See you on the baseball side.

GL