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NewEraReds
01-21-2006, 01:48 AM
mods, im sorry if this should be in another thread, if so, please move it.

i loved what i heard from our new owner. very passionate man about the reds and baseball. he wont stand for losing. mr lindner i felt was just passionate about cincy, but didnt really know what to do or care that the team wasnt good. our new owner seems like he knows what he is doing to. they said all the right things and not the same as what has been said before(like ive heard some say) and he just said it in a dif way. i just got this good feeling listening to all 3 of them. i love that they took allen away from baseball decisions. and before people yell about the fo keeping their jobs. im glad they did. you just cant throw everything out then higher whatever is out there. that wont get you the best. i believe they want the best. they talked about bringing in the best people and letting them do their job. i think you are seeing with players signing 1 year deals, and all fo's and the manager on one year deals that we will see changes in a year or less. i think they have ideas of who they want and they may not be available now. i know you dont want to just throw this year away, and believe me, i dont either. but id rather have one more bad year to have 10 great ones(lets hope) then do something drastic now just to try to win now and be bad for 10 more years.

i am very pleased with what i am seeing and hearing SO FAR

NewEraReds
01-21-2006, 01:52 AM
well i decided to go through some of the thread on the new owners. what a shock reds fans whining 5 seconds into him owning the team. nothing like a reds fan to make a good thing feel like crap in 5 seconds. if you truly believe you should just fire everything in site 5 seconds into owning something, WOW!

TOBTTReds
01-21-2006, 04:02 AM
I was happy with what I heard too. I don't know what others expected. A firing? Maybe. But other than that, our team that actually hits and pitches was not going to change.

TeamCasey
01-21-2006, 08:52 AM
I'm with you. I'm encouraged. It'll take awhile right the ship though.

redsfanfalcon
01-21-2006, 09:24 AM
I know we have all been patient for a while now, but it's going to take a bit more. After all, it even took God 6 days to create earth, (on the 7th he rested) so, let's hang with 'em. But, yes, it is wonderful to hear someone with money who appears to have the passion that a lot of us have for the Reds.

Jpup
01-21-2006, 09:55 AM
I'm thinking optimistically about the entire situation. Fire them all. Is that optimistic?

I really did like most of what I heard from the new guys in town. I was kind of worried about Cast complimenting Jerry Narron, but I think he was just trying to be nice since Lou appears on the way to town.

Things are looking up, at least for now.

cincinnati chili
01-21-2006, 10:33 AM
At about 6pm yesterday I had not yet LISTENED to the press conference, only seen a quick write-up on web.

The write-up made me think that Castellini was a yutz. I called M2 to say so. M2, who had actually listened to it, was more conciliatory.

When I actually listened to the audio link of the press conference (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060120&content_id=1298775&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin), I was much more encouraged by his enthusiasm.

The Piniella thing worries me a bit. But I figure that if this guy fails as an owner, it won't be from a lack of trying. Trying is half the battle.

Cooper
01-21-2006, 10:59 AM
I was encouraged. Could Lindner analyze the strengths/limitations of the organization in such a way? IMO, no way. That's not to say that an owner needs to have those skills, but if he does it makes things go a lot better. I never got the sense that Lindner even knew what the problems were/are (that may not be fair- he may just have kept quiet).

If an owner can sum up the organization in such a way -then he/she can know when folks aren't being real. This is a sick, dysfunctional organization. Inter office finger pointing and double speak are the norm. You need a CEO who can attempt to cut thru all the crap. You can't cut thru the crap unless you know the score.

It seems as if the organization has turned the corner. The speed in which they do so may not suit us all, but at the very least a passionate attempt will be made.

Btw, i've seen the word transparency (i hope i spelled it right) used more and more when new admins. come into their jobs. I'm hoping it's not a cliche in this case. I'd pick a different word to communicate the truth.

Falls City Beer
01-21-2006, 11:06 AM
If I've said it once, I've said it a million times: enthusiasm, knowing what's wrong with the club (we're giving this guy points for recognizing that the pitching and the minors are a joke?!)--none of it matters, truthfully, until the people who make baseball decisions are installed. All this other crap--meaningless. Utterly meaningless.

Cooper
01-21-2006, 11:14 AM
Knowing what's wrong is important. I've seen many a CEO who couldn't identify the strenghts/limitations of their companies. Took em months to get things done and usually by then it was too late. Knowing is important.

I like the passion too.

Falls City Beer
01-21-2006, 11:19 AM
Knowing what's wrong is important. I've seen many a CEO who couldn't identify the strenghts/limitations of their companies. Took em months to get things done and usually by then it was too late. Knowing is important.

I like the passion too.


I'm passionate, but I'd be a horrible owner.

Knowing is important, right, but beyond the obvious platitudinous barking about pitching and the minors--which any shrunken head could diagnose--did you hear anything of substance suggesting a sea change in evaluation of talent, a new approach to working the market? I didn't. (Though he said something about being opportunistic, which is about the only thing I liked about his chats).

Cooper
01-21-2006, 12:07 PM
What did you want to hear? It's not like he could go out and claim he was going to fall in love with sabermetrics....this town is too small minded for that kind of change. Heck, half this board would have thrown a fit if he would have said such a thing--the media would've hung him out to dry.

As for being able to diagnose the problems...i didnt hear Lindner do it for 5 years...Marge couldn't do it...point being, it's not always the case that a CEO can identify strengths/limitations of an organization. The bar is set low, but at least Castellini was able to clear it. I'm happy he was able to clear that first, really low bar. We haven't had an owner that could do that for the last 20 years. I know it's not much, but it's a heck of a lot more than we've had in the past....it's a good start.

Falls City Beer
01-21-2006, 12:35 PM
What did you want to hear?

I can tell you what I didn't want to hear: crap about the past. And we had that--and then some.

If I'm not mistaken, John Allen used the new park and the Reds history museum as the dose of chocolate syrup on the feces sundae of a team we've been served for 6 seasons. I don't care that a bunch of old faces are going to be milling around the place; we've had that schtick going on forever and it's done nothing.

westofyou
01-21-2006, 12:37 PM
I can tell you what I didn't want to hear: crap about the past. And we had that--and then some.If Coke or GM held a big ass PC then you could count on a reference to the past.

It's all marketing, something the other guys didn't know squat about.

Falls City Beer
01-21-2006, 12:48 PM
Trying is half the battle.

Nah. As Hamlet said--"the readiness is all...."

Cooper
01-21-2006, 12:54 PM
FCB: you have identified all that should not be said....what are ya gonna have a presser about? There's no more that can be said:)

Maybe he couldve said "i'm comin in here to kick some arse so get ready for that".

He said the right stuff. He dint screw anything up or _iss anyone off ala Ray Knight making his danderheaded remarks about Davey Johnson. It was a good first day that could've been better by 10%.

Falls City Beer
01-21-2006, 12:58 PM
Yeah, there's just something vaguely atavistic about murmurs of Lou Piniella. We need a "dog chasing its tail" smiley.

Falls City Beer
01-21-2006, 01:07 PM
To be fair, I'll include the language from Cast's speech that, reading between the lines, gives me the faintest ray of hope:

"Or, Cleveland, who finished two games out of the playoffs, only had two-thirds of our budget. Most importantly, we will invest our budget opportunistically and strategically. Our experience as owners with other franchises has proven that it's not so much what you spend -- it's how you spend that's most important."

In other words, I hope this means no more imbecilic proportions of payroll going to 9 year deals for 30-year-old players. So that's something.

KronoRed
01-21-2006, 01:12 PM
We need a "dog chasing its tail" smiley.
I'll see what I have :D

Maldez
01-21-2006, 01:26 PM
Castellini's off to a great start, just by his opening remarks. He's got an energy and sense of urgency about him that was oh-so lacking with Mr. Lindner. Old Carl ran this organization in his stoical, grim-faced, plodding manner that left a pall over everything Reds.

With Catellini, it's like somebody threw open a window, and we now have fresh air and sunshine again.

M2
01-21-2006, 01:33 PM
Castellini said a few nice things. I like that he's a fan of the game. Then again he said a few dumb things too. This is essentially the same Reds team as it was when Castellini punted his box seats, saddled with the same leadership.

I doubt ticket sales are going to pick up based on what he said yesterday. That's going to take some action. To that effect it didn't really matter what he said. The franchise will revolve around what he does.

RFS62
01-21-2006, 01:37 PM
I doubt ticket sales are going to pick up based on what he said yesterday. That's going to take some action. To that effect it didn't really matter what he said. The franchise will revolve around what he does.


Exactly. If no moves are made to improve the pitching staff other than saying "the glass is half full" and hoping they magically get better, we're just as screwed as last year.

"The glass is half full". That's like saying "we don't really suck as much as it appeared last year".

You can paint three stripes on a turd, and it's still a turd.

It just becomes a stylish turd.

Falls City Beer
01-21-2006, 01:37 PM
Castellini said a few nice things. I like that he's a fan of the game. Then again he said a few dumb things too. This is essentially the same Reds team as it was when Castellini punted his box seats, saddled with the same leadership.

I doubt ticket sales are going to pick up based on what he said yesterday. That's going to take some action. To that effect it didn't really matter what he said. The franchise will revolve around what he does.

Distinguishing between what was said and what one wants to believe was said can be right thirsty work.

KronoRed
01-21-2006, 01:39 PM
I fear an owner who would try so hard to recapture the past the he'd bring in people not qualified for certain positions (Lou to GM as an example)

Falls City Beer
01-21-2006, 01:41 PM
I fear an owner who would try so hard to recapture the past the he'd bring in people not qualified for certain positions (Lou to GM as an example)

Krono, you and I are such futurists--

http://tlfe.org.uk/imart/futurism/images/05.jpg

Hondo
01-21-2006, 02:39 PM
I wouldn't be suprised at all if Piniella is named to a Theo type of role later on this Spring. Marking an end to Dan O'Brein decisions...

Lou Piniella is my Manager...

Narron can stay on as Bench Coach, cause McLaren has a job anyway...

JaredRoberts.com

KronoRed
01-21-2006, 02:45 PM
Cool..we have a picture FCB :lol:

TeamBoone
01-21-2006, 03:47 PM
As for being able to diagnose the problems...i didnt hear Lindner do it for 5 years...Marge couldn't do it...point being, it's not always the case that a CEO can identify strengths/limitations of an organization. The bar is set low, but at least Castellini was able to clear it. I'm happy he was able to clear that first, really low bar. We haven't had an owner that could do that for the last 20 years. I know it's not much, but it's a heck of a lot more than we've had in the past....it's a good start.

Absolutely!

Marge didn't have any idea how valuable scouting is or that the minor leagues should be the backbone of the "big" team. She cared more about the character of her players, their physical appearance, and whether or not they liked her dog. Heck, she didn't even know why fans should care about the scores of other teams' games and came very close to having them removed from Riverfront.

Don't get me wrong, Marge had a huge heart and she loved the team... but she knew NOTHING about baseball and obviously didn't care to learn.

When Carl Lindner took over the team, I don't remember anything about baseball being included in his inaugural speech (though I could be wrong as not much about it actually comes to mind). First and foremost, I remember the biggest deal being about keeping the Reds in the hands of a local owner... that's it. The only thing Mr. Lindern felt was important at the time (and still does).

Mr. Castellini talked a great deal about his BASEBALL expectations. Does he have it all worked out as of yesterday? I doubt it. But it sounds like he'll begin working on it right away, starting by locating his office at GAB where he can keep an eye and ear on things. Getting Allen off the baseball side was HUGE in my mind. And having DOB report directly to him sounds to me like he intends to stay on top of what he is up to as well.

He's going to find out just what the heck is going on in the front office before he makes any rash moves. I think he'll definitely make some moves after he's had the opportunity to thoroughly assess the situation... up until now, all he knows is what he's been told and what he's been able to see for himself from the outside looking in.

In addition, all the partners are not yet even on board. He may need those people in order to accomplish some of what he hopes to be improvements within the organization.

I must admit, I'm hoping one of his first commitments is doing what it takes to get Dunn done!

KittyDuran
01-21-2006, 03:59 PM
I can tell you what I didn't want to hear: crap about the past. And we had that--and then some.

If I'm not mistaken, John Allen used the new park and the Reds history museum as the dose of chocolate syrup on the feces sundae of a team we've been served for 6 seasons. I don't care that a bunch of old faces are going to be milling around the place; we've had that schtick going on forever and it's done nothing.Thanks ALOT!!! Just had a brownie sundae...:barf:

Falls City Beer
01-21-2006, 04:17 PM
Thanks ALOT!!! Just had a brownie sundae...:barf:

My metaphors make people hurl!

Aronchis
01-21-2006, 04:23 PM
I doubt Lou was talking about the GM job with Cast. I think it was to field manage, but Lou is burned out and wants a year to recoup. But it is possible that Lou manages the Reds next year IMO.

marcshoe
01-21-2006, 04:27 PM
I appreciated the enthusiasm, but I'd like to see some real change in fairly short order, something that lets me know the Castellini understands just how bad the pitching is. Sure, "I think I can; I think I can" will sometimes help get you up the hill, but The Little Engine That Could didn't have a higher ERA than the Colorado Rockies.

TeamBoone
01-21-2006, 04:47 PM
I fear an owner who would try so hard to recapture the past the he'd bring in people not qualified for certain positions (Lou to GM as an example)

He didn't say GM; he said special advisor.

TeamBoone
01-21-2006, 04:50 PM
I appreciated the enthusiasm, but I'd like to see some real change in fairly short order, something that lets me know the Castellini understands just how bad the pitching is. Sure, "I think I can; I think I can" will sometimes help get you up the hill, but The Little Engine That Could didn't have a higher ERA than the Colorado Rockies.

Would you rather he walk in and makes changes just for the sake of change? Wouldn't you prefer that he make a full assessment from the FO down to the field and beyond (the minors) so as not to do anything foolish based on what he THINKS he knows today?

M2
01-21-2006, 04:56 PM
Would you rather he walk in and makes changes just for the sake of change? Wouldn't you prefer that he make a full assessment from the FO down to the field and beyond (the minors) so as not to do anything foolish based on what he THINKS he knows today?

What's he been doing for the past few months? I mean how hard is it to assess the performance of the Reds' organization on the field and as a business?

He had plenty of prep time. Change for the sake of improvement could have been achieved. It still might be, but it could have been yesterday as well.

marcshoe
01-21-2006, 05:01 PM
Would you rather he walk in and makes changes just for the sake of change? Wouldn't you prefer that he make a full assessment from the FO down to the field and beyond (the minors) so as not to do anything foolish based on what he THINKS he knows today?

No. My concern (I mentioned this on the other thread, but there are so many comments there much gets lost, I know) is that some of his comments sounded as if he believes that the team's pitching can improve with the players currently on the roster.

I'm sure that he understands that the pitching is bad, but the "glass half full" comments troubled me a bit. When things get bad enough, recognizing how bad the problem really is is a prerequisite to fixing it.

But it's entirely possible that he was being so positive because he believes that this is the best way to communicate his view of the future and underscore his commitment to future success. Time will tell.

TeamBoone
01-21-2006, 05:01 PM
Looking at the organization from the outside and assessing it from the inside are two very very different things, IMHO.

M2
01-21-2006, 05:08 PM
Looking at the organization from the outside and assessing it from the inside are two very very different things, IMHO.

He had access to the books. He knows what the market performance of other organizations has been. It's not hard to measure that. You could set a biz school intern onto a project like that and have your answers within a week.

And I wholeheartedly disagree that you need to be inside the organization to understand what its on-field performance has been and where the current talent level resides. You and I know it. People from coast-to-coast know it. It's not hard to figure out and it's not a secret.

BoydsOfSummer
01-21-2006, 07:52 PM
The one positive I take from Lou's name being bantered about is the fact that we can be reasonably sure Lou is not interested in coming into a losing philosophy. He left Tampa because it beat him down. Maybe he is waiting,like the rest of us,to see if serious commitment to changing/winning is a reality. Maybe that is what Lou told Castellini and crew. Hopefully major change is forthcoming; if it's to lure Lou,so be it,as long as it gets done.

TeamBoone
01-21-2006, 07:56 PM
But M2, just because we know from the outside what is going on and its unfortunate end result, that doesn't mean we necessarily know how or why. Just reviewing the books does not tell him everything that is wrong with the Reds; it may give him a good idea (or not) but until he can find out all the reasons why, what can he do?

There may be things going on in the front office that are not clearly visible from the outside... there may be individuals who are not doing their jobs but are good at hiding it. Maybe underlings are being told to do things they shouldn't, maybe others are lazy, maybe some just aren't doing what they're told, maybe all are incompetent (even ones at the top), maybe only some are.

Until he gets inside, takes a good look at individuals and office practices, how can he pinpoint the problems of the internal process. Sure, he has the books... doesn't tell him anything except that obviously something's wrong. IMHO, the end result (or top level overview) that we see on the outside doesn't mean anyone automatically know the precise cause... unknown mitgating factors may be contributing to the stuff that happens. I'm talking about the inner workings of the front office, including but not limited to the abysmal marketing and PR which ultimately trickle onto the playing field.

There are a whole lot of things that need fixing in order for the Reds to become a successful franchise, not just one.

MWM
01-21-2006, 08:02 PM
TB, I think we all knew enough about DanO and John Allen. I think those are the only two people folks are referring to.

Cooper
01-21-2006, 08:06 PM
He did have a chance to see the books, but i doubt he could get a read on the inter office dynamics. There may be some folks there that do a good job and it'd be a shame to clean house in a reactionary way.

It was his day to feel good about buying the team of his boyhood dreams. he prolly dint want to answer 15 questions about firing folks. Let him celebrate for a day--he can fire DanO in a week or 2.

TeamBoone
01-21-2006, 08:09 PM
I'm sure you're right.

What I'm saying is there are more... and until he gets inside, he doesn't know who they are.

What I'm also saying is that he's already changed the structure of responsibilities and reporting relationship for both those individuals. So he has already done something huge... right off the bat! I'm sure before anything else is done, he wants to assess the situation (all situations) more closely and from an insider's vantage point.... and there's nothing wrong with that. That way, he can make smart moves instead of guessing.

creek14
01-21-2006, 08:09 PM
He's been inside for months. Or so a little birdie in the know told me.

Most people check out a company before they accept a job, I would think a successful businessman would be bright enough to have an intimate knowledge of the business he is buying before he buys.

He's been part owner of a MLB team before, he knew what to look for. If he can't/didn't assess the mess this organization is in long before the good ole boy network blessed this sale, then he has no business being the owner.

TeamBoone
01-21-2006, 08:11 PM
Of course he has. And every single employee has been on their best behavior everytime he's been around.

I know how it works... I was on that end when the company I worked for was purchased by another. Once he moves in, he'll see how it really works.

M2
01-21-2006, 08:18 PM
TB, once you know the what, and who was in charge of the baseball and/or business operation when the what happened, then the how and the why become immaterial.

You're right that multiple things need fixing with the organization, all the more reason not to waste time on getting the right executive team in place. Get good leadership in place and let it start sifting through the underlings and processes. Like I said, Castellini didn't have to sack Allen and O'Brien yesterday, but if he had done it, it would have been to roaring approval.

MWM
01-21-2006, 08:48 PM
I don't think reporting structures are critical at all. They make it sound big to make people think big changes are in order, but they're window dressing, IMO. DanO is still making the baseball decisions and John Allen is still making the financial decisions. Sounds like more of the same to me.

TeamBoone
01-21-2006, 10:01 PM
I don't think reporting structures are critical at all. They make it sound big to make people think big changes are in order, but they're window dressing, IMO. DanO is still making the baseball decisions and John Allen is still making the financial decisions. Sounds like more of the same to me.

No.

Previously John Allen was making and/or forcing every decision on both sides, business and baseball. Mr. Lindner may have known about his decisions in advance, but was so clueless about baseball that he believed everything he was fed and trusted JA to do what was best for the organization (big mistake). Only when a decision loomed huge or reflected on him personally did he thwart John Allen's posture (Larkin, Griffey, the Reds Hall of Fame come to mind off the top of my head).


Get good leadership in place and let it start sifting through the underlings and processes. Like I said, Castellini didn't have to sack Allen and O'Brien yesterday, but if he had done it, it would have been to roaring approval.

I firmly believe he plans on doing just that. Unfortunately, several of his partners have yet to be approved by MLB. Any idea on how long that will take?

I still don't agree with you on the merit of firing JA and DOB on his first day at the helm.

- Would it have sent a positive message to die-hard fans?... maybe, though I'm not thoroughly convinced.

- Would it have sent a positive message to the Reds franchise and all the other higher-ups that attended yesterday's press conference? I don't think so. In fact, I more believe it would have alienated a lot of people that Mr. Castellini may need support from in the future.

An enlightened, baseball-savvy leader is wanted/needed; a tyrant is not.

MWM
01-21-2006, 10:28 PM
Everyone keeps saying that John Allen somehow forcing Dano's decisions. I'm not aware of any evidence that John Allen had anything to do with Dano's player decisions. The only evidence I've seen is that Allen made the decision to retain Dave Miley. Other than that, there's no evidence of him influencing DanO's player decisions, yet everyone keeps throwing it out there like it's gospel. Where does this belief come from? Having him report to someone else isn't going to magically transform him into John Schuerholz.

harangatang
01-21-2006, 10:37 PM
Everyone keeps saying that John Allen somehow forcing Dano's decisions. I'm not aware of any evidence that John Allen had anything to do with Dano's player decisions. The only evidence I've seen is that Allen made the decision to retain Dave Miley. Other than that, there's no evidence of him influencing DanO's player decisions, yet everyone keeps throwing it out there like it's gospel. Where does this belief come from? Having him report to someone else isn't going to magically transform him into John Schuerholz.

I guess we'll all find out in the next year.

wheels
01-21-2006, 10:48 PM
Everyone keeps saying that John Allen somehow forcing Dano's decisions. I'm not aware of any evidence that John Allen had anything to do with Dano's player decisions. The only evidence I've seen is that Allen made the decision to retain Dave Miley. Other than that, there's no evidence of him influencing DanO's player decisions, yet everyone keeps throwing it out there like it's gospel. Where does this belief come from? Having him report to someone else isn't going to magically transform him into John Schuerholz.

Maybe familiarity will breed contempt.


Sorry, but that's all I got.

TeamBoone
01-22-2006, 12:07 AM
It was stated that John Allen ultimately approved (or not) all business and baseball decisions.


From ESPN article (we've seen/heard it from other sources too):

Castellini's first move was to change the front office's structure. Chief operating officer John Allen will stay but will focus on the business side of the ballclub. General manager Dan O'Brien will run the baseball side, reporting directly to Castellini.

Under previous owner Carl Lindner, Allen ran the entire operation and reported directly to the owner. Castellini bought control of the team from Lindner in November, a transaction approved Thursday by major league baseball owners.

MWM
01-22-2006, 12:39 AM
Approval does not at all mean he made the decisions. Allen's approval is a formality and is based entirely on the budget. There's not a GM out there who doesn't have to gain approval from someone for deals they make. The only difference is Castellini will approve them directly now instead of Allen. Same thing.

KronoRed
01-22-2006, 01:46 AM
My main fear being that Allen shot down a lot of terrible deals, with if new owner man approves them :help:

TeamCasey
01-22-2006, 08:44 AM
Everyone keeps saying that John Allen somehow forcing Dano's decisions. I'm not aware of any evidence that John Allen had anything to do with Dano's player decisions.

Barry Larkin said something to that effect.

creek14
01-22-2006, 08:49 AM
This statement alone is enough to dash my hopes.

"General manager Dan O'Brien will run the baseball side"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/wires/01/20/2010.ap.bbn.reds.owner.0411/

KittyDuran
01-22-2006, 11:01 AM
Of course he has. And every single employee has been on their best behavior everytime he's been around.

I know how it works... I was on that end when the company I worked for was purchased by another. Once he moves in, he'll see how it really works.I was on that end 2 times where I used to work. Eventually the wheat gets separted from the chaff [sorry for the cliche]. Those employees who wrongly profitted or benefitted in the status quo would be gone, either fired or resigned. In the meantime, there is a very important period of time before a overhall takes place - even employees that will be fired have to do their job before the axe falls - the company has to keep working. This transition period happens not only in takeovers, but in downsizing and outsourcing as well.

The knowledge that Allen and O'Brien [yes, they do have knowledge ;) ] have about how the team works now, what's on the agenda, etc. is very valuable. The key is getting that knowledge before they do damage. I don't think that Allen or O'Brien are vindicitive people but you never know. They, and others need to be watched carefully. But on the plus side, they have been put on notice.:thumbup:

M2
01-22-2006, 01:50 PM
I still don't agree with you on the merit of firing JA and DOB on his first day at the helm.

- Would it have sent a positive message to die-hard fans?... maybe, though I'm not thoroughly convinced.

- Would it have sent a positive message to the Reds franchise and all the other higher-ups that attended yesterday's press conference? I don't think so. In fact, I more believe it would have alienated a lot of people that Mr. Castellini may need support from in the future.

An enlightened, baseball-savvy leader is wanted/needed; a tyrant is not.

First off, the city brahmins will like Bob as long as he throws a good cocktail party.

Second, if everybody's going to cheer when you whack these guys then why waste time? That's not a tyrant, that's a liberator.

TeamBoone
01-22-2006, 02:00 PM
Second, if everybody's going to cheer when you whack these guys then why waste time? That's not a tyrant, that's a liberator.

That made me laugh.... liberator. In theory, you're absolutely right, I just don't see it done in practice very often.

I do think that at least DOB will be gone... sooner rather than later. Maybe not, just a feeling. Or if JA really was the guy behind some of these disappointing acquisitions and he is now out of the picture in that regard, who knows? Maybe DOB is smarter than any of us think (though I sincerely doubt it).

I guess we'll see... again, hopefully sooner rather than later.

M2
01-22-2006, 02:33 PM
That made me laugh.... liberator. In theory, you're absolutely right, I just don't see it done in practice very often.

I do think that at least DOB will be gone... sooner rather than later. Maybe not, just a feeling. Or if JA really was the guy behind some of these disappointing acquisitions and he is now out of the picture in that regard, who knows? Maybe DOB is smarter than any of us think (though I sincerely doubt it).

I guess we'll see... again, hopefully sooner rather than later.

It definitely would have been bold and aggressive. My argument is that bold and aggressive is exactly what Reds fans are up for at this point in time. Everything folks like about Castellini's press conference touches upon the notion that he's going to be bold and aggressive.

I don't fault him for not taking it farther on his first day, but he'd be the king of Cincinnati if he had.

MikeS21
01-22-2006, 04:37 PM
It definitely would have been bold and aggressive. My argument is that bold and aggressive is exactly what Reds fans are up for at this point in time. Everything folks like about Castellini's press conference touches upon the notion that he's going to be bold and aggressive.

I don't fault him for not taking it farther on his first day, but he'd be the king of Cincinnati if he had.
I dunno. Signing Eric Milton was "bold and agressive" but it was stupid. Doing something just for the sake of doing some thing isn't always the best thing.

To me, simply firing Dan O'Brien results in nothing more than it did when JimBo was let go. We thought firing Bowden made a statement. It didn't. Firing O'Brien right at this moment only opens up the opportunity for another dud to get the job. Unless there is a qualified outside person ready to step in and ready to hit the ground running, keeping OB on a VERY short leash is better than GM-by-committee by a handful of underlings. Just the act of dumping O'Brien doesn't excite me. It's too "same song, different verse." Now, if we read of Paul DePodesta meeting behind closed doors with Castellini, then its time to dump Danny Boy.

What I'm going to be looking at are the new advisors that are brought in. Are they going to be more of the same, or will they be new blood? Will they be people who know how to scout and develop a farm system? Will there be people who understand the difference between BA and OBP? Will there even BE any new advisors?

Let's see who he brings in.

M2
01-22-2006, 04:44 PM
I dunno. Signing Eric Milton was "bold and agressive" but it was stupid. Doing something just for the sake of doing some thing isn't always the best thing.

Except that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is walking in with all the things you've mentioned in hand, making the big splash with the new leadership ready to go instead leaving us in the position you've accurately summed up as "Let's see who he brings in."

I'd have answered that question before you asked it.

Mind you, I think there's also value to cutting DanO loose without a specific replacement as long as you've got a trusted team president to run the replacement committee. After all, would you complain if Brad Kullman were put in charge of negotiating some deals for pitching? Seems to me that would be change for the sake of improvement.

On a sidenote, I wonder if Castellini man-love for Lou Piniella isn't partially connected to the guy's ethnic heritage. If so, somebody please put Paul DePodesta in the same room as Bob Castellini, stat.

MikeS21
01-22-2006, 08:41 PM
I do believe that the one thing we all agree on is that someone needs to send the following web link to Dan O'Brien:

www.Monster.com

marcshoe
01-23-2006, 10:38 PM
Okay. I'm convinced now.