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max venable
01-22-2006, 02:45 PM
...What are the moments that made you feel like, as a Reds fan, you wanted to crawl under a rock. Here are a couple that come to mind (top-of-my-head stuff)...in no particular order.

Marge. Overall I think she was great. A true fan. But she embarrassed us a few times (recylcing the flowers when the ump died, some of the stuff that came out of her mouth, and just her overall appearance--remember when she was on the cover of SI with that smoking cig? Yikes!).

Our offense (specifically Reggie Sanders and Ron Gant) against the Braves pitching in the 1995 NLCS. Whiff-city.

Jim Bowden makes my list. Dude had no couth. The way he fired Tony Perez, the way he treated Jeff Shaw, the leather pants...there are more, I'll just leave it at that.

Pete Rose...hate to say it...but it was pretty embarrassing when he finally came clean. I defended the guy. I still love him as a player but when he finally fessed up...embarrassing.

I know I'll come up with some more as I think further.

Others?

ghettochild
01-22-2006, 02:48 PM
4 straight losing seasons
john allen
2005 pitching staff
eric milton bust
our farm system


need i say more

chicoruiz
01-22-2006, 03:16 PM
1. Marge Schott- Where do I begin? I was fortunate enough to be able to eat the pre-game spread in the press box a couple of times during her era, and the sight of her picking over all the food on the buffet with her bare hands. (after just petting Schottzie) will stay with me forever.

2. Dick Wagner- How could a guy who worked with Bob Howsam not have absorbed at least a little baseball acumen by osmosis?

3. The Firing of Tony Perez- The Big Dog deserved so much better.

4 (tie). Pete Rose As Player-Manager inserting his used up carcass into the lineup regularly while younger, better options wasted away on the bench.

4 (tie). Pete Rose Jr's Big League Stint- Because management thought we fans were stupid enough that we'd get excited about it.

5. The 1961 World Series- Most of you don't remember it, but trust me, the Yankees pretty much undressed us.

creek14
01-22-2006, 03:51 PM
Okay I have a personal most embarrassing moment.

I think I was 14. I luuuuved Davey Concepcion. Kind of like Dunn now.

So my dad and I were at a game. Blue seats behind the Reds dugout. I was in heaven.

The Reds take the field to start the game. They announce Davey. My Davey. He starts to run towards SS and fell. Tripped over, well, over his own two feet.

I was crushed. Obviously I still haven't gotten over it. ;)

I know that's not what you meant, but oh well. :)

Strikes Out Looking
01-22-2006, 03:52 PM
Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas.

WVRedsFan
01-22-2006, 04:13 PM
Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas.

Yes, that has to be number one, no doubt, and

2. This club's love for over-the-hill or previously injured pitchers. Over the past ten years, you can count the number of times on one hand that we have signed a proven winner. Heck, I can onlly think of one--Eric Milton and we all know how that panned out.

3. The Reds' performance in both the 1961 and 1970 World Series games. Earlier the 61 series was touched upon. In 1970, Brooks Robinson was a one-man wrecking crew.

4. The 2000-2005 seasons as a whole. After acquiring Griffey, who would have believed that our pitching would deteriorate to the point that even scoring the most runs in the league wouldn't give us winning seasons? For the record, this period's record was 447-525-2, a .459 winning percentage.

Falls City Beer
01-22-2006, 04:21 PM
4. The 2000-2005 seasons as a whole. After acquiring Griffey, who would have believed that our pitching would deteriorate to the point that even scoring the most runs in the league wouldn't give us winning seasons? For the record, this period's record was 447-525-2, a .459 winning percentage.


I too remember 1982-1988 and in terms of embarrassing, it's got nothing on 2000-2005(6); maybe I've got a more profound knowledge of incompetence now than I did then, but this is the freakin' pits. Everything's a mess--and it's so blatantly obvious to everyone within and without Cincinnati except ownership/management. That's what's so embarrassing.

Caveat Emperor
01-22-2006, 04:30 PM
The "Mothers Day Meltdown" a few years back at Cinergy was probably one of my top 2 or 3 "most embarrasing fan moments" of all time...

...right up there with the Bucs blowing a 20 point lead to the Colts in under 5 minutes on Monday Night Football.

westofyou
01-22-2006, 04:35 PM
1. Owner going bankrupt and Bank holding the papers.

2. Owner conspiring with Giants owner to pass Mathewson through Reds system.

3. Marge

4. Dick Wagners tenure

5. Pete's career since 1989

Honorable Mention

Signing Hal Chase

Refusing to participate in Free agency

Perez hire/fire

Robinson trade

Changing name to redlegs

MWM
01-22-2006, 04:45 PM
The 9th inning blowup this last year is pretty high on the list if we're talking individual game moments.

Getting blown out by the brewers in 1999 when they could have clinched the wild card.

The treatment of Ken Griffey, Jr. by the media and a large contingent of fans his first few years in Cincy.

Hiring Dan O'Brien

Not being willing to pony up $200k to get Chuck Finley when the team was in contention.

This one is probably #1 on my list - The 2003 fire sale where Allen chose to get cash in return as opposed to better players.

Cooper
01-22-2006, 05:49 PM
Dibble did some silly things.

WVRedsFan
01-22-2006, 06:17 PM
I too remember 1982-1988 and in terms of embarrassing, it's got nothing on 2000-2005(6); maybe I've got a more profound knowledge of incompetence now than I did then, but this is the freakin' pits. Everything's a mess--and it's so blatantly obvious to everyone within and without Cincinnati except ownership/management. That's what's so embarrassing.

Not even close. From 82-88, the Reds woln 557 games and lost 575 or a .492 winning percentage. They even had winning seasons from 85-88, with 1985 being 89-72!

No, hands down, this last six years has been the absolute worst in modern Reds history.

westofyou
01-22-2006, 06:28 PM
No, hands down, this last six years has been the absolute worst in modern Reds history.

If modern is post 1900 nothing tops the Depression era Reds

Bad Reds Runs



1911 6th 70 83 .458 29
1912 4th 75 78 .490 29
1913 7th 64 89 .418 37.5
1914 8th 60 94 .390 34.5
1915 7th 71 83 .461 20
1916 T7th 60 93 .392 33.5


1930 7th 59 95 .383 33
1931 8th 58 96 .377 43
1932 8th 60 94 .390 30
1933 8th 58 94 .382 33
1934 8th 52 99 .344 42


1945 7th 61 93 .396 37
1946 6th 67 87 .435 30
1947 5th 73 81 .474 21
1948 7th 64 89 .418 27
1949 7th 62 92 .403 35
1950 6th 66 87 .431 24.5
1951 6th 68 86 .442 28.5
1952 6th 69 85 .448 27.5
1953 6th 68 86 .442 37
1954 5th 74 80 .481 23
1955 5th 75 79 .487 23.5

1982 6th 61 101 .377 28
1983 6th 74 88 .457 17
1984 5th 70 92 .432 22

2001 5th 66 96 .407 27
2002 3rd 78 84 .481 19
2003 5th 69 93 .426 19
2004 4th 76 86 .469 29
2005 5th 73 89 .451 27

Mainspark
01-22-2006, 06:33 PM
For a single, on-the-field moment, I think back to a game in Wrigley Field early in the 1993 season, when a horrific reserve outfielder (whose name escapes me right now; he was likely one of Bowden's five-tool players) fell down as a liner to center went over his head, then remained on the ground, on his back, as runners circled the bases.

As for off-the-field moments, does anyone remember those grim times in the 1970s when Johnny Bench would show up on a talk or variety show and be called upon to sing, usually warbling a nightmarish version of the late Jim Croce's "Bad, Bad Leroy Brown"?

savafan
01-22-2006, 07:24 PM
Embarrassing, but funny...when Tim Layana sitting in the bullpen stood up to field a ground ball with his hat and tossed it into the stands.

Again, I know this isn't what you meant, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

foxfire123
01-22-2006, 08:03 PM
2. Owner conspiring with Giants owner to pass Mathewson through Reds system.


Can you explain this? I'd not heard anything about this and just curious.

Foxfire123

MrCinatit
01-22-2006, 08:19 PM
2. Owner conspiring with Giants owner to pass Mathewson through Reds system.


Can you explain this? I'd not heard anything about this and just curious.

Foxfire123

if i am not mistaken, the NY Giants and the Reds were owned by the same guy, who essentially used the Reds as the Giants' minor league team.

how about the 1939 so called Lombardi Snooze? yeah, i know...they guy was essentially knocked out, but it still gets a chuckle out of the baseball world today, and might have held Ernie from the hall for a few years.

then there is 1919. obviously a huge embarassment for the Sox, but it is a rather tainted championship for our Reds. we can argue that we could have won without the scandel until we are blue in our faces...but the championship does remain forever tainted.

i look at the way the organization has treated Tony Perez, and shake my head. from the trade, to his firing, it seems we have not been able to find a proper way to say goodbye to the guy.

the whole Pete Rose saga has been a very dark saga for the Reds, one which has seemingly hung over and haunted the organization since it all happened (with one brief, shining moment in '90).

the Marge ages were also very dark. when you owner - and her dog - become the "stars" of your ballclub, things are not well. the dog even had its own freaking baseball card, for Pete's sake. and when the commissioner's office has to step in more than once to keep your big fat mouth shut, well....

as for our present situation, i will personally wait for a while before commenting on that. yes, this is an extremely embarassing time to be a Reds fan. however, i will wait to see how long this situation will last - i have a lot of hope that we are now beginning to claw our way to the top again, but only time will tell.

dougflynn23
01-22-2006, 09:12 PM
:( My worst moments were as follows...

- Not even attempting to sign Jeremy Sowers, realizing that the only way this organization will ever get a #1 starter is to develop one.

- Firing Davey Johnson because Marge didn't like his personal lifestyle

- Gapper & Shotszie (I and II)

- The Dick Wagner Era

- Going in the course of 7 months from an OF of Foster, Collins, and Griffey to one of Householder, Cedeno, and Hurdle.

- When Tim Foli bit Ron Oester in a clubhouse brawl.

- When Sean Casey and Danny Graves became the faces of the organization

westofyou
01-22-2006, 09:14 PM
2. Owner conspiring with Giants owner to pass Mathewson through Reds system.


Can you explain this? I'd not heard anything about this and just curious.

Foxfire123

December 15, 1900: Amos Rusie, out for the past two years with arm problems, is traded to the Reds by the Giants for young Christy Mathewson. Though only 30, Rusie, a future Hall of Fame pitcher, will not have the ability that brought him eight straight 20-game seasons, and he will not add to the 245 wins he collected in nine seasons. Appearing in just three games in 1901, he will finish with an 0-1 record. Mathewson, 0-3 with the Giants but 20-2 with Norfolk (Virginia League), is much coveted by Cincinnati owner John T. Brush, who is currently negotiating to buy control of the Giants from the unscrupulous Andrew Freedman. Before he takes over, Brush wants Mathewson in place as a Giants starter, rather than the "pitched out" Amos Rusie.

max venable
01-22-2006, 11:28 PM
:( My worst moments were as follows...

- Not even attempting to sign Jeremy Sowers, realizing that the only way this organization will ever get a #1 starter is to develop one.

- Firing Davey Johnson because Marge didn't like his personal lifestyle

- Gapper & Shotszie (I and II)

- The Dick Wagner Era

- Going in the course of 7 months from an OF of Foster, Collins, and Griffey to one of Householder, Cedeno, and Hurdle.

- When Tim Foli bit Ron Oester in a clubhouse brawl.

- When Sean Casey and Danny Graves became the faces of the organizationGood list.:thumbup:

Dom Heffner
01-22-2006, 11:33 PM
I seem to remember Terry Francona falling on his way to home and then scampering on his hands trying to reach the plate. That was embarrassing.

And I'm embarrassed every time a former Red who stunk when he was here all of a sudden becomes Babe Ruth when he goes elsewhere.

Paul O'Neill, Paul Konerko, Jeff Russell, Nick Esasky all come to mind.

ThatsAStrike
01-23-2006, 10:39 AM
The '95 playoff series vs. the Braves. At the time, I worked with this guy who was a huge Braves fan. Man he gave me a hard time about that series.

KronoRed
01-23-2006, 10:43 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Kronosb/1.jpg

MartyFan
01-23-2006, 11:32 AM
Firing of Sparky
Trading and Firing of Tony Perez
Anything Pete Rose has ever said
ROB DIBBLE
Pretty much every day since Jim Bowden took over and then every day since DanO has been in place.

savafan
01-23-2006, 11:41 AM
Eric Davis having to pay his own way back to Cincinnati after spending time in an Oakland hospital for a lacerated kidney.

Kal Daniels getting his contract decided by a coin flip.

westofyou
01-23-2006, 11:52 AM
Eric Davis having to pay his own way back to Cincinnati after spending time in an Oakland hospital for a lacerated kidney.
<pontificate>
That falls under the large black cloud known as "Marge".

Marge was like a series of earthquakes, short bursts of stupidity, often it seemed to diffuse eventually. In reality it had the common unseen earthquake effect, it ruined the well built structures foundation, weakened it daily, weekly, yearly until it collapsed in a heap. Leaving a mess that would have taken an ownership group with vision awhile to fix.
</pontificate>

RFS62
01-23-2006, 11:55 AM
<pontificate>
That falls under the large black cloud known as "Marge".

Marge was like a series of earthquakes, short bursts of stupidity, often it seemed to diffuse eventually. In reality it had the common unseen earthquake effect, it ruined the well built structures foundation, weakened it daily, weekly, yearly until it collapsed in a heap. Leaving a mess that would have taken an ownership group with vision awhile to fix.
</pontificate>


Man, I couldn't agree more. It was a constant source of embarrassment for me. I lived in several different places during her era, and the Shotzie jokes followed me wherever I went.

The way she treated the scouts, the ignorant and racist comments, the total lack of a clue about baseball..... it was just too much for me to stomach.

She was a joke to the baseball world.

SunDeck
01-23-2006, 12:23 PM
Trading Frank Robinson
Heckling Jackie Robinson
Marge's racist comments
Pete Rose's gambling addiction
Being associated with the 1919 World Series
The farm system of the last fifteen years
"Pitch to Contact"

CincyFalcon
01-23-2006, 12:32 PM
Paul Wilson and Kyle Farnsworth

Paul O'Neill's boot

Heath
01-23-2006, 01:08 PM
Being associated with the 1919 World Series


Its not their fault they won the NL that year.

Roush, Neale, & Groh hit a ton. Eller & Sallee really could toss it.

Nothing to be ashamed of there.

Here's a few others-
1983 Opening Day Right Fielders...Jeff Jones.
Anything from 1982.
Rogers Hornsby-Manager
Tony Perez-Manager
Signing of Eric Milton

KronoRed
01-23-2006, 01:13 PM
She was a joke to the baseball world.
But she won that 1 world series so that makes it ok ;)

REDREAD
01-23-2006, 01:46 PM
John Allen has so many goof ups that it would brin down the board if I listed them all. Him complaining about spending an additional 900k on Guzman in 1999 was the worst (Anyone think DanO could've salvaged that trade at the 11th hour?) I mean, here we have a legitimate contender, with potential for a huge payoff in the playoffs and next year ticket sales, and he's worried about 900k?

Carl Lindner's incompetence and apathy was just as bad as Marge's dumb remarks. I doubt Carl could name any Reds player other than Larkin, Casey, and Jr.

westofyou
01-23-2006, 01:49 PM
Carl Lindner's incompetence and apathy was just as bad as Marge's dumb remarks. Was it as bad as her skimming a little off the top?

Or those little gems about Parker and E.D.?

REDREAD
01-23-2006, 01:50 PM
oh yeah, during that game vs. Houston when the Reds were getting their rearends kicked and then the TV showed a shot of DanO in his seat laughing very hard. That was shameful for the GM to be laughing as his team gets shelled.

Chip R
01-23-2006, 01:51 PM
oh yeah, during that game vs. Houston when the Reds were getting their rearends kicked

I think you're going to have to narrow that down some. ;)

REDREAD
01-23-2006, 01:52 PM
Was it as bad as her skimming a little off the top?

Or those little gems about Parlker and E.D.?


Carl skimmed a lot more.

IMO, Carl is much more racist based on what his company did in South America than Marge using a bad word. Marge did make Eric Davis the highest paid player in the game at the time. Marge's use of that term was not polite or excussable, but a product of her being stuck in the past. She didn't really hate the black players.

cumberlandreds
01-23-2006, 01:54 PM
Losing 101 games in 1982. That was embarassing and hard to take after the glory years of the 1970's.
Pete Rose being banned from baseball in 1989. He had it all in the palm of hand and let it go because of just pure foolishness. I was embarrased to say he was my favorite player for a time after that. I soon started saying and still say he was my favorite ballplayer but not my favorite human being.
Firing Sparky and Tony Perez.

max venable
01-23-2006, 01:55 PM
Paul Wilson and Kyle Farnsworth

Paul O'Neill's boot

O'Neill's boot? The time when he kicked the ball back into the infield and it kept a run from scoring? I love that play! Classic!

westofyou
01-23-2006, 02:03 PM
Marge did make Eric Davis the highest paid player in the game at the time. Yeah she was a peach, when a local BMW dealer offer ED a car to tool around for free in Marge put a kibash on it (not a GM) after some negotiations she gave him a Corvette from one of her dealerships.

The next year in contract negotiaons she tried to write in the new car cost as part of ED's terms.

savafan
01-23-2006, 02:43 PM
Having the best record in baseball in 1981 and not making the playoffs.

max venable
01-23-2006, 03:29 PM
Having the best record in baseball in 1981 and not making the playoffs.
Embarrassing for MLB...but not for the Reds :oops:

gonelong
01-23-2006, 03:39 PM
I am no fan of Oester ... but the way in which he was offered/passed over for the Managerial gig was beyond embarrassing.

GL

RFS62
01-23-2006, 03:40 PM
I am no fan of Oester ... but the way in which he was offered/passed over for the Managerial gig was beyond embarrassing.

GL


No kidding. And the Perez fiasco was beyond shameful.

I never forgave Bowden for that.

gonelong
01-23-2006, 03:41 PM
No kidding. And the Perez fiasco was beyond shameful.

I never forgave Bowden for that.

Yep, that doesn't get to be qualified as simply embarrassing. That was heinous.

GL

Little Alex
01-23-2006, 06:43 PM
:( My worst moments were as follows...



- Going in the course of 7 months from an OF of Foster, Collins, and Griffey to one of Householder, Cedeno, and Hurdle.



:laugh: this one made me laugh the hardest.


Nice thread. :thumbup: