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Puffy
01-23-2006, 05:48 PM
Pitch to contact?

Tandem starters?

Man, I hope so. PTC is one of the dumbest concepts I have ever seen, and there is no evidence that the tandem system saves arms.

Hopefully, both these problems will be terminated and new, better ones will be implemented.

Red Leader
01-23-2006, 05:54 PM
I'm sure that there will be changes, and I'd bet those two headline Castellini's list. We'll have to wait for the GM hire to see what changes are made, and I'm guessing there will be some changes in the minor leagues and those overseeing the minor league operations which will impact what changes are made as well.

In other words, Tim Naehring will be gone and a replacement will be named, probably by the new GM, and they will work together to put their "plan" into action.

Puffy
01-23-2006, 05:55 PM
I hope so - I am no fan of Naehring. He hasn't impressed me one iota since he has been here.

Red Leader
01-23-2006, 05:57 PM
I hope so - I am no fan of Naehring. He hasn't impressed me one iota since he has been here.


He's been skating an awful lot, IMO. I think he'd be decent in some roles in this franchise, but, much like O'Brien, I think he's in over his head where he's at now.

TeamBoone
01-23-2006, 06:00 PM
Something someone mentioned on WLW... "take a strike". I don't know if it was a caller or Furman.

Did DOB mandate that, and what does it mean? I don't remember hearing it before.

Red Leader
01-23-2006, 06:01 PM
Something someone mentioned on WLW... "take a strike". I don't know if it was a caller or Furman.

Did DOB mandate that, and what does it mean? I don't remember hearing it before.

Like when you, or I, or anyone else was in Little League, you went to the plate and forced the pitcher to throw you a strike before you could swing at a pitch.

Stupid.

I personally hated that when I was in Little League (and broke the rule all the time), so I'm sure professional hitters hate it even more.

Puffy
01-23-2006, 06:02 PM
Something someone mentioned on WLW... "take a strike". I don't know if it was a caller or Furman.

Did DOB mandate that, and what does it mean? I don't remember hearing it before.

In the low minors, Rookie and low A I believe, the players were required to take a strike, IIRC.

Matt700wlw
01-23-2006, 06:32 PM
Something someone mentioned on WLW... "take a strike". I don't know if it was a caller or Furman.

Did DOB mandate that, and what does it mean? I don't remember hearing it before.

I think it was implemented in the minors, if I remember correctly.

Heath
01-23-2006, 06:35 PM
I think it was implemented in the minors, if I remember correctly.

I also think that it was yanked.

That or Tonys Gutierrez didn't listen.

Reds Fanatic
01-23-2006, 06:36 PM
In the low minors, Rookie and low A I believe, the players were required to take a strike, IIRC.
I go to a lot of Dragons games and that policy of suggesting players take a strike and the tandem starters were both disasters. Hopefully they get rid of both those rules.

TeamBoone
01-23-2006, 06:44 PM
Thanks guys. Someone on WLW (probably Furman) stated that it was another one of DOB's dumb rules.

Caveat Emperor
01-23-2006, 06:45 PM
I go to a lot of Dragons games and that policy of suggesting players take a strike and the tandem starters were both disasters. Hopefully they get rid of both those rules.

Apparently the minor league fans were also starting to get upset with what they percieved to be a team that wasn't interested in playing hard and playing to win. They'd see hitters constantly get behind in the counts as they took a strike, and they'd see good pitchers getting yanked out of games on strict pitch counts when they were throwing the ball well -- that doesn't play with a crowd when they next "tandum starter" comes in and gets shelled, but has to get his work in anyway.

I don't know if that'll play any role in things...

MikeS21
01-23-2006, 08:01 PM
One thing Brad Kullman has pushed for is a 4-man rotation.

zombie-a-go-go
01-23-2006, 08:25 PM
One thing Brad Kullman has pushed for is a 4-man rotation.

I heart the four-man rotation, but with the history of Reds tossers getting yanked after 6, that's gotta mean four new pitchers.

Well, except for Aaron, who's total nails. Someone refresh my beer-soaked memory on Claussen's stamina. Does he often go 7?

letsgojunior
01-23-2006, 08:40 PM
I'm really hoping it's the end of our "prevent offense."

KronoRed
01-23-2006, 10:02 PM
No more PTC jokes?

Ok..sad day now :(

Scrap Irony
01-23-2006, 10:10 PM
I love the idea of a four man starting staff, but is that too revolutionary for the Reds? No other team is doing it-- or even thinking of doing it.

Why do I love the four man staff?

Reasons include:
1. No fifth starter to hurl over. (Or over hurl, as the case may be.)
2. Less starters, more middle relievers means those with less "stuff" can be more effective.
3. Salaries for middle relievers are not as high as those of starters-- even craptastic fifth starters.
4. Best pitchers pitch more innings.
5. With extra guy, bullpen actually better rested than with five starters.
6. Easier to find four good starters than five.

Can we do it? The tandem starter system is in place in the lower minor leagues. Simply add pitches to lengthen out games and you've got it.

(If Castellini is granting wishes, I'd love to see Dr. Mike Marshall tutor the Reds. Perhaps as a minor league pitching coach for a year or two, then graduation to the bigs?)

zombie-a-go-go
01-24-2006, 06:37 AM
I had always thought one of the primary problems with going to a four-man was that the pitchers themselves would rebel against it; no one would want to sign with a team where their workload would be, what, 20% greater than it would be with another team (I suck at math)?

KronoRed
01-24-2006, 06:39 AM
I had always thought one of the primary problems with going to a four-man was that the pitchers themselves would rebel against it; no one would want to sign with a team where their workload would be, what, 20% greater than it would be with another team (I suck at math)?
It's only an avg of 7 more starts a year ..they should sac up :D

GAC
01-24-2006, 08:17 AM
Tandem starters?

there is no evidence that the tandem system saves arms.

Or jobs! :mooner:

According to today's DDN, no one within the system liked this approach. He tried it at Texas and they eliminated it.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/daily/0124audible.html

Let's hope there aren't two men in baseball who believe the low minors need to have tandem pitching systems and batters taking a strike before swinging.

He also made it nearly impossible for the Dragons to win. He instituted a system he used as an employee with the Texas Rangers, even though the Rangers don't use that system anymore.

It was designed, O'Brien said, to get pitchers into more games while preventing injuries as well as teaching batters to be patient. With it, the Dragons lost 92 games in 2004 and 79 last summer. That's during a 140-game season.

Although none of the Reds development people would ever say so, the system was not popular. There apparently was a movement in the works to cut back on the first-strike decree, but farm director Tim Naehring must now wait to see what direction the new general manager wants to take.

At least O'Brien's two draft classes appeared to be better than the previous four. If players such as pitcher Homer Bailey, outfielder B.J. Szymanski and infielders Paul Janish and Adam Rosales eventually make it to the majors, O'Brien can be hailed for that.

As for the hard-line tandem system and first-strike edict, a half-million fans who watch the Dragons annually will be thrilled to see something different.

Danny Serafini
01-24-2006, 09:46 AM
Someone refresh my beer-soaked memory on Claussen's stamina. Does he often go 7?

Heck, he's lucky to get 6 half the time. He was way too inefficient with his pitches last year.

Puffy
01-24-2006, 11:42 AM
Heck, he's lucky to get 6 half the time. He was way too inefficient with his pitches last year.

Yup. Claussen is way to inefficient with his pitches. But he's still young and hopefully that light will click on just like it did with Harang and he'll realize that his stuff is good enough to challenge hitters just a bit more, and then 7 innings and 200 IP will become easier for him.

IslandRed
01-24-2006, 12:15 PM
I had always thought one of the primary problems with going to a four-man was that the pitchers themselves would rebel against it; no one would want to sign with a team where their workload would be, what, 20% greater than it would be with another team (I suck at math)?

They might get over it when they realize they could go into their next free-agent year as an 18-game winner instead of a 15-game winner.

I'm for the four-man rotation also, for all the reasons Scrap Irony said. The five-man rotation began with the Dodgers -- not as a reasoned measure of reducing pitcher fatigue or injuries, but because they had five good starters. Everyone else simply copied the Dodgers because the Dodgers were the authority on pitching. Baseball's like that. BP did an article a year or two ago, and as best as they could figure it, the five-man rotation hasn't reduced injuries much if at all.