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View Full Version : If Kearns Goes, Will Dunn Go Also?



shredda2000
01-26-2006, 09:23 AM
Thoughts? Comments?

deltachi8
01-26-2006, 09:26 AM
Depends on how much money the Reds give him.

kbrake
01-26-2006, 09:28 AM
I think Dunn gets his LTC as soon or before Kearns is dealt, I really dont see him leaving too.

lollipopcurve
01-26-2006, 09:33 AM
If keeping Kearns around helps get Dunn to sign an LTC, it should happen.

If I'm Castellini, I request a face-to-face meeting with Dunn and his agent early in ST. Follow up with an offer/negotiations. Figure out if a LTC can happen. Once that's decided, then you'll be much better able to address what to do with the other young offensive players.

redsfan30
01-26-2006, 09:42 AM
I'm deleting my original post because I think I was responding to something that I interpreted wrongly.

dfs
01-26-2006, 10:05 AM
In another thread I detailed the list of reasons Dunn has to NOT sign a long term contract with this franchise.
Trading Kearns would probably add to that list. By all accounts the two (and LaRue are friends)

kbrake
01-26-2006, 10:08 AM
It is a business and if Dunn hasnt figured that out then I dont know what to tell him. This isnt little league where you get to play with all your buddies. I can see if he was upset over some things in the past but things have changed. Besides if he wants to lose for the next 10 years with Kearns by his side he can do it elsewhere, if trading Kearns makes this team better I could care less if Adam Dunn gets upset, but I really dont think he would.

Cedric
01-26-2006, 10:11 AM
He is a professional. He would be upset for a period of time and then get over it.

redsfan30
01-26-2006, 10:15 AM
In another thread I detailed the list of reasons Dunn has to NOT sign a long term contract with this franchise.
Trading Kearns would probably add to that list. By all accounts the two (and LaRue are friends)
Now I can post what I posted earlier.

Pitching wins baseball games. Not outfielders. Austin Kearns can bring back pitching to help you win and apparently he will at some point. If trading Austin Kearns can improve your team and give you a chance to win, Adam Dunn has to realize that you have to do that. If he raises a stink with it and leaves town because they traded his friend that is no different than what Sean Casey was killed around here for.

Anytime Sean Casey made comments about seeing a friend traded he was consistantly ridiculed for it. It seems to me that people give Adam Dunn a free pass when it comes to him and Kearns. What's the difference between Sean Casey saying what he said and Dunn (potentially) leaving because they traded his friend?

I like Adam Dunn, but that's not fair.

Adam Dunn should make his decision to stay with this organization based on whether he thinks they can win or not. Not whether they traded his friend or not.

KronoRed
01-26-2006, 10:23 AM
Dunn will stay for the right $

Sorry, I like Dunn..but all players are about the $

Chip R
01-26-2006, 10:25 AM
Anytime Sean Casey made comments about seeing a friend traded he was consistantly ridiculed for it. It seems to me that people give Adam Dunn a free pass when it comes to him and Kearns. What's the difference between Sean Casey saying what he said and Dunn (potentially) leaving because they traded his friend?

I like Adam Dunn, but that's not fair.


There's a big difference. Sean is on record with those statements whereas you are supposing Dunn feels the same way about something that may or may not happen.

RedsManRick
01-26-2006, 10:34 AM
I'll preface this by saying that I think every professional athlete wants to win. However, I think some athletes makes winning their #1 goal, and nothing else matters. I get the distinct impression from Dunn that while he wants to win, it's really only a piece of puzzle. It seems he wants to be comfortable, happy, surrounded by friends. He wants to be able to go fishing sometimes instead of spending a few extra hours watching tape.

Obviously, losing is no way to have fun, and Dunn realizes that. But if winning means being miserable personally, I think he'll take mediocrity from his team. This isn't any specfic comment on the effect of a Kearns trade and is admitedly almost pure conjecture. It's just the vibe I get from him.

I think he goes to FA when the time comes, checks out his options, and takes a deal from a mid market team that's probably not the "best" offer on the board. Baseball is his job, not his passion. He enjoys it, but it's not the obsession it is for some guys. He'll be comfortable, make a lot of money, and hit a lot of homers. It might be in Cincy, might not.

Perhaps though, after he goes through the process of losing friends to trades or free agency a few more times and begins the downslope of his career, he'll start to prioritize winning more strongly. In the meantime, I'll just enjoy the .400 OBP and tape measure bombs.

redsfan30
01-26-2006, 10:36 AM
There's a big difference. Sean is on record with those statements whereas you are supposing Dunn feels the same way about something that may or may not happen.
You're right that nothing has happened so nobody has anyway of knowing what any reaction would be.

But I just get the impression from people that they think the Reds should keep Austin Kearns because we don't want to make Adam Dunn mad even if trading Kearns made this a better team.

westofyou
01-26-2006, 10:40 AM
Anytime Sean Casey made comments about seeing a friend traded he was consistantly ridiculed for it.

As he should have been, Boone, Sulliven, Willy, Graves.... all the boys from Sean's first trip to summer camp in 1999 were patted on the rump as they left by Sean.

Meanwhile all the Dunn talk is just that... talk.


“Until the trade deadline’s over,” said first baseman Sean Casey, “I think everyone’s kind of on edge right now.”

http://www.cincypost.com/2003/07/30/redsside07-30-2003.html

A day later it was then the Boone trade that really began Seans lament and it reached a roar when Sullivan was traded in August..

“My reaction is it’s a salary dump. It doesn’t make a difference if I’m upset or whatever. It’s not about our feelings. It’s about money, obviously.”

“I understand you have to get young talent and this and that, but Scott Sullivan came here below market value to remain in Cincinnati because he loved pitching here and he came up through this organization,” Reds first baseman Sean Casey said.

“It’s just a money thing. This one is so frustrating because Sully has led the league and led the world four of the last five years in appearances. They say no guy is irreplaceable, but Scott Sullivan is irreplaceable. The leadership he brought here and the things he brought to this team, for what Scott Sullivan brought, he was cheap. … It’s a sad day here for a lot of guys.”

http://www.cincypost.com/2003/08/22/redsside08-22-2003.html


He’s one of the greatest teammates I’ve ever had,” Casey said. “As a fan watching, you know who’s genuine and who’s not and who goes out there and takes pride in what they do every day and who doesn’t. Watching Boone play, you know he takes pride every day. He goes out and gives everything he has every night. That’s why people in Cincinnati love him and that’s why we loved him here in the clubhouse.”

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050521/SPT05/505210369/1035




“This is getting hit by a shovel,” Casey said. “Guys loved that guy. Guys loved Danny Graves. It’s got to have a negative effect.

“Right now is one of lowest points I’ve ever been involved in with the Reds.”

“I’m shocked more than anything,” Casey said. “It’s just shocking. Anytime this organization asked Danny Graves to take the ball, he did. He never complained. He never griped. You never heard anything out of him.”

“This is not his fault,” first baseman Sean Casey said. “We stink. For us to be 15-28 has nothing to do with Danny Graves. That’s the frustrating part for me.

“I know I’m a little emotional right now, but I think the Cincinnati Reds as an organization owe a lot more to Danny Graves for the eight years he stepped up every year. They owe him more than to just release him like this. I just disagree with it.”

M2
01-26-2006, 10:44 AM
He is a professional. He would be upset for a period of time and then get over it.

That's my take too.

Chip R
01-26-2006, 10:48 AM
You're right that nothing has happened so nobody has anyway of knowing what any reaction would be.

But I just get the impression from people that they think the Reds should keep Austin Kearns because we don't want to make Adam Dunn mad even if trading Kearns made this a better team.

Sure, I see that too. Personally, I'd trade Kearns in a heartbeat if the Reds could get some decent pitching out of it. And it's a gamble to trade Kearns if it makes Dunn unhappy. But even if you re-sign Kearns to a multi-year deal to keep Dunn happy there's no guarantee Dunn sticks around.

MikeS21
01-26-2006, 10:54 AM
It is a business and if Dunn hasnt figured that out then I dont know what to tell him. This isnt little league where you get to play with all your buddies. I can see if he was upset over some things in the past but things have changed. Besides if he wants to lose for the next 10 years with Kearns by his side he can do it elsewhere, if trading Kearns makes this team better I could care less if Adam Dunn gets upset, but I really dont think he would.
The problem is that money may not be the only hold-up in getting a LTC done.

We've been working from the assumption the the only thing holding back a deal for Dunn is that the Reds are too cheap to offer him enough money. That may not be the case at all. What if Dunn has other demands that include keeping a core group of players intact? My point is, if Dunn is looking for an excuse to get out of town ASAP, his demands for a LTC may go far beyond money - perhaps even bordering on absurdity.

My gut feeling is that Dunn will opt for free agency at his earliest opportunity - no matter what the Reds offer.

George Foster
01-26-2006, 11:10 AM
My take of this is the reds organization MUST be pretty confident they will sign Dunn to a LTC, or they would not be offering up Kearns. Why trade Kearns, then lose Dunn to the free agent market? If the reds cannot sign Dunn to a LTC, then we all must agree that we have to keep Kearns..right? We can't lose them both.

Chip R
01-26-2006, 11:34 AM
If the reds cannot sign Dunn to a LTC, then we all must agree that we have to keep Kearns..right? We can't lose them both.

Not necessarily. If Kearns plays like a dog, what's the use of keeping him around even if Dunn leaves?

dfs
01-26-2006, 01:23 PM
Anytime Sean Casey made comments about seeing a friend traded he was consistantly ridiculed for it. It seems to me that people give Adam Dunn a free pass when it comes to him and Kearns. What's the difference between Sean Casey saying what he said and Dunn (potentially) leaving because they traded his friend?
Fair enough... I certainly have implied that it's possible Dunn might gets upset and that could effect his decision to sign a long term contract.

Now, your question is why does that concern me when others have not been concerned about Sean Casey's very public sentiment that he wanted to keep his buddies around?

That's pretty easy for me to answer. Sean Casey is a really nice guy, but he's replaceable. On the field, between the lines he's nothing special, an expensive powerless firstbaseman who gets on base but can't run. On the other hand, Adam Dunn has established himself as one of the best hitters in the game. Pitch to him and he punishes the ball. Don't pitch to him and he takes the walk. He's the type of player that you can build a contender around. If I'm ownership, there's no comparison between the two and I know exactly which one I'm concerned with keeping happy.

Again, there's a pretty long list of reasons Adam Dunn might have to avoid signing a long term deal with the reds. I don't KNOW that those things effect Dunn's willingness to sign a deal, but it is possible.

MikeS21
01-26-2006, 02:39 PM
Fair enough... I certainly have implied that it's possible Dunn might gets upset and that could effect his decision to sign a long term contract.

Now, your question is why does that concern me when others have not been concerned about Sean Casey's very public sentiment that he wanted to keep his buddies around?

That's pretty easy for me to answer. Sean Casey is a really nice guy, but he's replaceable. On the field, between the lines he's nothing special, an expensive powerless firstbaseman who gets on base but can't run. On the other hand, Adam Dunn has established himself as one of the best hitters in the game. Pitch to him and he punishes the ball. Don't pitch to him and he takes the walk. He's the type of player that you can build a contender around. If I'm ownership, there's no comparison between the two and I know exactly which one I'm concerned with keeping happy.

Again, there's a pretty long list of reasons Adam Dunn might have to avoid signing a long term deal with the reds. I don't KNOW that those things effect Dunn's willingness to sign a deal, but it is possible.
Unfortunately, I think Sean Casey was one of those buddies Dunn may have not wanted to see traded! :eek: