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Unassisted
01-27-2006, 02:07 AM
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2006/01/27/a1c_marlins_0127.html

Stubble's trouble for the Marlins

By Joe Capozzi (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2006/01/27/mailto:joe_capozzi@pbpost.com)
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Friday, January 27, 2006
JUPITER Here's a warning for the many young Marlins prospects preparing to report for spring training.

Pack a razor.

Manager Joe Girardi, taking a page from George Steinbrenner's grooming manual, has issued a no facial hair policy for his players. For the first time in franchise history, the Marlins will be cleanshaven.

Girardi figures the rule won't be an issue with this team.

"With our guys, it shouldn't a problem,'' he said, adding with a laugh: "They're probably too young to shave anyway.''

Girardi didn't wear facial hair as a player, so he had no problem with Steinbrenner's long-standing rule that allowed neatly trimmed mustaches but no beards and shaggy hair.

"To me, the idea is to look professional,'' Girardi said Thursday. "I understand it's important for players to have their own style, and I don't have a problem with that. But I want players to look neat and clean.''
With seven key veterans traded in the off-season and others gone through free agency, the Marlins figure to have plenty of fresh-faced players showing up when pitchers and catchers report Feb. 18 to Roger Dean Stadium.

It might be a good thing the Marlins made a clean cut with some of their stars. Ace Josh Beckett favors a scraggly beard, third baseman Mike Lowell wears a goatee and reliever Todd Jones has a bushy mustache.

The holdovers aren't as hairy. Pitcher Dontrelle Willis had a wisp of hair on his chin during a workout last week at Roger Dean and catcher Matt Treanor's neat mustache is not compliant but says he wouldn't have a problem facing a razor.

"Hey, I figure I'll enjoy it while I can,'' Treanor said of his mustache. "I'm all right with (the policy). It's not too much to get up in the morning and shave.''

Unless you're Perry Hill, the Marlins' first-base coach who has worn a mustache or beard since he graduated from high school in 1970.
More than a century ago, baseball players were famous for their handlebar mustaches. But no players wore facial hair from 1918 to 1971, according to authors Neil McCabe and Constance McCabe in the award-winning book, Baseball's Golden Age.

Reggie Jackson was among several Yankees whose beard came up in contract negotiations in the 1970s. Also in the 1970s, Rollie Fingers, Joe Rudi and the Oakland A's ushered in the facial-hair era with the blessing of owner Charley Finley. The Cincinnati Reds were a longtime holdout, until 1999 when owner Marge Schott scrapped the team's 32-year-old rule against facial hair at the request of slugger Greg Vaughn.

But Girardi believes stubble means trouble.

"I appreciate peoples' styles and how they want to be different, but I really believe if you look professional, you play more professional,'' he said.

savafan
01-27-2006, 02:10 AM
I don't care if a guy wears a tutu, shaves his head and tatoos purple elephants on it so long as he plays productively. I think bans on facial hair, long hair, etc. is much ado about nothing.

KronoRed
01-27-2006, 02:13 AM
Best looking 80 loss team in the league

harangatang
01-27-2006, 02:36 AM
I think a player should be allowed to express himself however he wants as long as he produces. Yet on the other hand alot of people, especially in the midwest, like baseball players clean cut and shaven.

MartyFan
01-27-2006, 02:53 AM
On this, I am old school...I like the shave idea.

StillFunkyB
01-27-2006, 06:45 AM
On this, I am old school...I like the shave idea.

Yeah, same here.

macro
01-27-2006, 08:06 AM
The facial hair issue has been debated here from time to time, but for those interested in more historical background...

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/submit/Kates_Maxwell1.stm


Baseball Beards
A Brief History of the Changing Attitudes Towards Facial Hair in Baseball

by Maxwell Kates (Toronto, Ontario)
A member of the Society for American Baseball Research

Attitudes in sports have frequently mirrored those adapted by a global society during a given period in time. This assumption may be derived with respect to social fashion trends throughout the history of baseball. Moustaches and sideburns were commonplace in the late nineteenth century, both in baseball and in Western society and waned in popularity during the twentieth. As long hair, moustaches, beards, sideburns, and later, goatees, reentered the mainstream fashion spectrum in the years after 1960, so too did they become commonplace in baseball, albeit several years later. Apart from the late sixties through the seventies, when baseball's dress codes remained a last bastion of conservatism, its grooming trends have, in fact, followed those as dictated by society in general.

As mentioned above, facial hair was commonplace in baseball in the late nineteenth century. In James Bready's "The Home Team," a history of baseball in Baltimore, John McGraw and Wilbert Robinson were both depicted sporting moustaches as members of the Orioles in the 1890's. By the time they were managers in the early twentieth century, players with facial hair became a rarity in baseball. According to SABR member Bill Deane, the last moustached player in the major leagues was Wally Schang, who caught for the Philadelphia Athletics in 1914. Deane continued, outlining that there were no official regulations which prohibited players from growing facial hair. Rather, baseball was, simply, "a conservative game in conservative times."

Beards were far less commonplace than moustaches in the early years of baseball. The last National League player to sport a beard prior to the nineteen sixties was John Remsen, who split the 1884 season between the Phillies and the Brooklyn Atlantics of the American Association. A half century lapsed before another bearded player emerged in the major leagues. According to Wayne McElreavy, also a SABR member, Allen Benson pitched two games for the Washington Senators in 1934 while sporting a beard. A USA Today article dated December 29, 1999, "The Time of Their Lives," chronicled Benson's brief career and his maverick fashion statement.

Frenchy Bordagaray, Satchel Paige, Roy Campanella, and Tommy Davis all attempted to reintroduce the moustache to baseball during the mid-century period. Bordagaray "raised quite a stir" in 1936, when he arrived at the Brooklyn Dodgers training camp wearing a beard. He shaved prior to Opening Day, although he kept the moustache for part of the season. Satchel Paige, who sported a moustache throughout his Negro League career, shaved shortly after he signed with the Cleveland Indians in 1948. He remained clean shaven throughout his major league career, although he wore a moustache in the minors and as an Atlanta Braves coach in 1968. In a conversation I had with the late Cal Abrams in 1993, he recalled that his Brooklyn teammates enjoyed an annual rite of shaving Roy Campanella's offseason moustache in spring training. Similarly, Tommy Davis was depicted in the New York Mets 1967 Yearbook receiving a shave from his teammates.

The first team to officially enforce a dress code was the Cincinnati Reds. Perhaps as a backlash to the growing trend of long hair and beards among 'the New Breed,' new team President Bob Howsam insisted that his players maintain grooming standards not much less conservative than among military members. Moustaches, beards, and shoulder length hair were all off-limits to Reds players. Pete Rose derided the rule, arriving at spring training in 1972 wearing a Vandyke beard. Howsam and manager Sparky Anderson insisted that it was gone by Opening Day. The equally conservative Joe Schultz attempted to maintain a clean shaven, crewcut roster as manager of the Seattle Pilots. As Jim Bouton documented in "Ball Four," he was forced to shave his offseason moustache. Surprisingly, he more than obliged, fathoming that "what stands between me and my moustache are 20 wins." In John Robertson's book entitled "Rusty Staub of the Expos," he hinted that a Fu Manchu moustache, which Le Grand Orange grew late in the 1968 season, allowed the Houston Astros to find his expendable, and traded him to the expansion Montreal Expos in January 1969. Ironically, Staub had shaved the moustache by then.

The first modern players to sport moustaches during the season were Dick Allen and Felipe Alou, opening the 1970 seasons with the St. Louis Cardinals and the Oakland A's, respectively, both with unshaven upper lips. When Reggie Jackson arrived at the A's training camp in 1972 wearing a moustache, owner Charlie O. Finley devised a promotional scheme. He offered each player a $300 bonus to grow a moustache by June 18th, when the team photo was to be taken. Manager Dick Williams could have proven to be Finley's most obvious obstacle. Williams maintained a martinet rule on facial hair as manager of the A's since 1971, and before that, when he piloted the Boston Red Sox. However, Williams adopted a more pliant stance with the promotion, even growing a moustache himself. By the time June 18th rolled around, only Vida Blue remained clean shaven among A's players. Many of the players and coaches kept their moustaches after the promotion, including Williams. Rollie Fingers, whose handlebar moustache was perhaps the most famous of the A's players, explained the significance of the promotion when he spoke in Toronto in 1995:

"When my two-week paycheque was only $1,200, I jumped at the idea of taking a 25% bonus for any reason."

Not surprisingly, when the A's met the clean cut Reds in the 1972 World Series, it was dubbed the "Hair versus Square" Series by the media.

Not all managers became as liberal on facial hair policies in the seventies as was Williams. As manager of the Montreal Expos between 1969 and 1975, Gene Mauch insisted that all his players remain clean shaven. However, he and President John McHale were willing to make one exception. At the Expos 25th anniversary dinner in 1993, McHale remarked that "late in the 1973 season, we picked up Felipe Alou from the Yankees in order to help us win the pennant. Felipe had this beautiful moustache, and Gene and I were going to let him keep it. But he was mindful of the team rules, and he had already shaved it before he arrived in Montreal." Mauch's dress code remained official team policy until late in the 1976 season, when interim manager Charlie Fox allowed the players free grooming choice.

Although dress codes were commonplace when Preston Gomez managed the Padres from 1969 to 1972, they became unusual once he became the Astros skipper in 1974. In a Sports Illustrated abstract dated July 1, 1974, Houston shortstop Billy Grabarkewitz, in spite of being a Texas native, insisted being traded from the Astros, in order to keep his moustache.

Yankees owner George Steinbrenner never had a problem with moustaches, but he has always reviled beards and long hair. Several Yankees players, including Thurman Munson, Reggie Jackson, and Dave Winfield, have grown beards as contractual bargaining tools or simply, to rankle "The Boss." On Opening Day 1976, Steinbrenner even insisted that team publicist Marty Appel recall the Yankees yearbooks, as several players were depicted with long hair. Fifteen years later, in 1991, Tim Kurkijian documented in a Sports Illustrated article that Steinbrenner benched Don Mattingly because he refused to get a haircut. It is surprising that after nearly thirty years of managing the Yankees, nobody has reminded Steinbrenner of the Biblical Samson, whose strength was stultified after he got a haircut.

Similarly, moustaches were acceptable on the Dodgers when the O'Malley family owned the team, but beards were not. After Peter O'Malley sold the Dodgers to Rupert Murdoch in 1998, many Dodgers players began to grow beards and goatees.

Even as the seventies progressed, managers Alex Grammas and Vern Rapp insisted on maintaining old school grooming codes. Grammas, a former lieutenant with the Reds under Sparky Anderson between 1970 and 1975, managed the Brewers in 1976 and 1977. Ironically, under manager Del Crandall in 1975, the Brewers grew perhaps more Fu Manchu moustaches than any team in history. George Scott, Gorman Thomas, Darrell Porter, Robin Yount, Kurt Bevacqua, Pete Broberg, and Jim Colborn were all depicted on their 1976 Topps baseball cards wearing the popular seventies whiskers. Grammas made certain that they were all clean shaven in 1976.

As the Brewers were equally mediocre in 1976 and 1977 as they were in 1975, Grammas' dress code was perhaps less controversial than Rapp's, as it did not impede on the performance of the team. When Rapp was appointed as manager of the St. Louis Cardinals prior to the 1977 season, however, he insisted that all players be clean shaven, including ace reliever Al Hrabosky. As "the Mad Hungarian," Hrabosky attributed much of his pitching success to his long hair and Fu Manchu moustache. Ineffective in 1977, Hrabosky was peddled to the Kansas City Royals that winter, and Rapp was bounced as the Cardinals manager in early 1978.

At the Toronto Blue Jays initial training camp in 1977, President Peter Bavasi dictated that manager Roy Hartsfield outline the grooming rules for the players: no moustaches, no beards, no jeans. Players initially complied with Bavasi's request, until he joined a team road trip wearing jeans. "They were designer jeans," he protested. Manager Hartsfield began to allow moustaches and jeans in light of the incident, but beards remained off limits until Bobby Mattick was appointed manager in 1980.

Perhaps no team's grooming code has drawn as much controversy as has that of the Cincinnati Reds. Even as moustaches and beards became more mainstream in society as the twentieth century drew to a close, the Reds retained the strictest of dress codes. When Dave Collins and Wayne Krenchicki were acquired by the Reds, their press photos from prior organization depicted them with moustaches. Not only were the team logos airbrushed for the Reds media guide, but so were the moustaches. In 1982, the Reds acquired Jim "The Emu" Kern from the Texas Rangers. In a case not unlike Hrabosky's on the Cardinals, Kern's effectiveness was hampered after he was required to shave his beard. When he began to grow it back, he was quickly dispatched to the Chicago White Sox. After being traded from the Reds to the Montreal Expos, a newly bearded Dann Bilardello remarked in the 1987 edition of Street and Smith's Magazine that, "in Cincinnati, you were lucky to survive if you had eyebrows." After Marge Schott purchased the team in 1985, jewelry was added to the list of taboo items. When, in 1993, she remarked that "only fruits wear earrings," every player and coach on the Los Angeles Dodgers, the visiting team when Schott made her insensitive remark, wore clip-ons for the game that evening. The dress code became history early in the 1999 season, when the Reds acquired Greg Vaughn from the San Diego Padres. He insisted on keeping his goatee, a request with which new owner Carl Lindner complied.

Apart from the aforementioned instances of resistance against liberal grooming codes, baseball fashion has, for the most part, mirrored that of Western society. Surprisingly, nobody objected to the stubble beards of Burleigh Grimes, Sal Maglie, Darold Knowles, Joe Torre, and other players with notable cases of 'five o'clock shadow.' According to "The Birds Up In Arms," an anecdotal article Phil Jackman wrote for the Baltimore Orioles 1980 Yearbook, Knowles (an Oriole in 1965) was so hirsute that he shaved three times daily. Similarly, when sideburns were in vogue, roughly from 1969 to 1982, and also with goatees today, both styles of whiskers have entered baseball without notable objection. Just as grooming attitudes in baseball during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries have been similar to those in society, there is no reason to consider any change in this parallel during the twenty-first century.

Maxwell Kates was born in 1978 in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. He is a recent graduate of the University of Toronto, obtaining his Bachelor of Arts degree in History in June 2001. A panelist on "Sportsline," a sports memorabilia radio programme from 1998 to 2000, Maxwell Kates is a black belt in tae kwon do, and has also worked as an amateur standup comedian. He is clean shaven, shaves twice daily, and lives in Toronto.

macro
01-27-2006, 08:20 AM
Here are some Enquirer articles from 1999, the season Greg Vaughn changed everything...

Reds Clean-Shaven Since 1902:

http://reds.enquirer.com/1999/02/13/red_reds_clean-shaven.html

Lighter look at Reds' (Not So) hirsute history:

http://reds.enquirer.com/1999/02/13/red_lighter_look_at_reds.html

And here's a picture of Pete prior to the start of the 1972 season. The beard was gone by Opening Day. I remember getting issues of a newspaper called the Reds Alert during the BRM era and seeing off-season pictures of Will McEnaney and Rawly Eastwick with beards and Fred Norman and George Foster with mustaches. It seemed strange at that time to see Reds players with facial hair.

ED44
01-27-2006, 10:24 AM
Do they have anyone old enough to grow facial hair now? :dunno:

I am mixed on the issue though...can see both sides.

westofyou
01-27-2006, 10:34 AM
Reds Manager Gus Schmelz only MLB Manager to ever have a beard.

http://www.deliafamily.net/BBCI/Premiums/Cabinets/1887%20Strauss%20Cabinet%20Gus%20Schmelz%20Cinn.jp g

cincinnati chili
01-28-2006, 08:53 AM
Do they have anyone old enough to grow facial hair now?




Exactly, they're trying to ban facial hair on guys that are too young to have pubic hair.

It should be interesting to see how quickly Joe Girardi loses this clubhouse. Given the fact that Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis have been stripped of their starting cast, I doubt they'll be too thrilled about a rookie manager barking out stupid orders at them and micromanaging meaningless details.

Even though I think facial hair bans are dumb - It's one thing if you're the Yankees or the Big Red Machine. 1. Those teams didn't (don't) suck. 2. The Reds/Yankees hair bans (at least in recent year) came from ownership as a marketing decision. The thought, however flawed, was that fans would be more likely to pay for a clean-cut bunch. These orders didn't come from Jeff Loria. They came from a rookie manager.

TeamBoone
01-28-2006, 10:51 AM
I would hate for ANYONE to dictate to me how I should wear my hair, facial or otherwise.

As long as it's clean and doesn't deter from my job performance, it is and always will be a personal preference and should not be mandated by one's boss.

vaticanplum
01-28-2006, 04:56 PM
I have abnormally strong feelings about facial hair. I hated the attention paid to the Red Sox facial hair over the last couple of years. I'm pretty much predisposed to hate the Red Sox if they breathe, but I though that they were starting to have way too much focus on things that don't have anything to do with baseball. Actually for a while there I thought it was hampering them -- look we're bad boys, we're a misfit team, we just happened to show up at the ballpark on the way home from the bar! All the while downplaying the fact that this is a well-paid, meticulously put-together organization that wants to win. I really did think it was taking their focus away, but after awhile they proved me wrong...it's still something I really like about the Yankees though. Arrogance schmarogance -- that team is what they are. They want to win and there's no bones about it, there's nothing on the field for them but baseball. And yes, in a weird way I think facial hair (or lack thereof) is the kind of thing that goes into that.

That said, I don't think that anyone should dictate how players wear their facial hair, period. They are grown men and they can do whatever they want. For a few hours a day, they're trying to win a baseball game. For the rest, they have lives off the field for which they may want facial hair. I do think, however, that lessons regarding what is proper and attractive facial hair should be taught in schools as men seem so utterly clueless about it these days. It is all part of my quest for a more beautiful world. Well, I'm kidding. Well, not really.

WMR
01-28-2006, 05:03 PM
I wish the Reds still had the clean-shaven rule. Some of the old-school thinking that pervades the Reds definitely needs to go, but I like the clean-shaven thing. The Reds have such a long, rich history and I thought that the clean-shaven rule was a neat aspect of that.

westofyou
01-28-2006, 05:09 PM
The Reds have such a long, rich history and I thought that the clean-shaven rule was a neat aspect of that.That was only instituted in 1967, until then teh Reds were just like every other team, a bunch of crewcuts and a budweiser.

The Players HATED the rule and a good portion of them showed up with facial hair and shaved it off the first day in the clubhouse. How bad did the Reds enforce it? When St X. pitcher Chris Welsh was invited to come down to Riverfront and toss off the mound he was required to shave off the same cheesy stach he sports today.

Living in the 70's everyone had flowing locks, except Bear Bryant, Woody Hayes and the Reds.

redsfan30
01-28-2006, 05:11 PM
Exactly, they're trying to ban facial hair on guys that are too young to have pubic hair.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is the first mention of "pubic hair" in Redszone history.

:laugh:

KronoRed
01-28-2006, 05:27 PM
I'm not going to search for it.

Heath
01-28-2006, 07:11 PM
Reds Manager Gus Schmelz only MLB Manager to ever have a beard.

http://www.deliafamily.net/BBCI/Premiums/Cabinets/1887%20Strauss%20Cabinet%20Gus%20Schmelz%20Cinn.jp g

Here's his record. Lotta good that beard did...



1887 Amer Assoc Cincnnti 36 136 81 54 .600 2
1888 Amer Assoc Cincnnti 37 137 80 54 .597 4
1889 Amer Assoc Cincnnti 38 141 76 63 .547 4

butlerbulldogs
01-28-2006, 07:43 PM
i could care less, last time i checked i was watching the reds to see if they'd win, not lookin to see who looked better

GADawg
01-28-2006, 07:50 PM
I don't care about the facial hair, tattoo's, earrings, etc...but what I can't deal with is when someone looks completely sloppy and even seems to be a disgrace to the uni. Manny Ramirez comes to mind as does little Manny(Ron Belliard). Speaking of Indians(well former Indians)Coco Crisp is one of my least favorite players because of the way he wears his hat all crooked....last time I checked centerfield at the Jake isn't exactly the ghetto. The only guys that should be allowed to make that crooked hat fashion statement are weirdo lefty pitchers. go get em' Dontrelle!

Unassisted
01-28-2006, 07:54 PM
I don't care about the facial hair, tattoo's, earrings, etc...but what I can't deal with is when someone looks completely sloppy and even seems to be a disgrace to the uni. Manny Ramirez comes to mind as does little Manny(Ron Belliard). Speaking of Indians(well former Indians)Coco Crisp is one of my least favorite players because of the way he wears his hat all crooked....last time I checked centerfield at the Jake isn't exactly the ghetto. The only guys that should be allowed to make that crooked hat fashion statement are weirdo lefty pitchers. go get em' Dontrelle!Next will you share with us your opinion on Adam Dunn's uniform pants? :evil:

TeamBoone
01-28-2006, 09:41 PM
Next will you share with us your opinion on Adam Dunn's uniform pants? :evil:

I know you're not asking me, but I'll tell you anyway ;)

I'd love to see them tighter. :p:

WMR
01-29-2006, 02:22 AM
That was only instituted in 1967, until then teh Reds were just like every other team, a bunch of crewcuts and a budweiser.

The Players HATED the rule and a good portion of them showed up with facial hair and shaved it off the first day in the clubhouse. How bad did the Reds enforce it? When St X. pitcher Chris Welsh was invited to come down to Riverfront and toss off the mound he was required to shave off the same cheesy stach he sports today.

Living in the 70's everyone had flowing locks, except Bear Bryant, Woody Hayes and the Reds.

I don't even mean even the actual length that it was in play for the Reds. I just think it hearkens back, overall, to a simpler, better time period and I thought that it was a good remembrance of that era.

IslandRed
01-29-2006, 10:10 AM
Like Chili said, if it's an ownership-driven marketing decision or even personal preference of the guy signing the checks, then fine. Your team, your rules. But for a new manager to do it, implying he believes there's a link between facial hair and performance? It would make me wonder about the guy's ability to think.

RFS62
01-29-2006, 10:16 AM
Sounds to me like it's just a move to show who's boss.

A lot of managers think dress codes and uniform regulations instill discipline.

cincinnati chili
01-29-2006, 10:48 AM
Sounds to me like it's just a move to show who's boss.

A lot of managers think dress codes and uniform regulations instill discipline.

If he can pull it off, more power to him. But I think Joe might have miscalculated the timing of this whole thing. Granted, you might know more about what's going on inside the Marlins. But I was assuming that there's be a hefty malaise settling over the clubhouse after the firesale.

The returning players might see this as pouring salt on their wounds, rather than a good way to turn things around.

Redsland
01-29-2006, 08:30 PM
Sounds to me like it's just a move to show who's boss.
Next he'll take away their recliners and force everyone to take a strike. ;)

RFS62
01-29-2006, 08:31 PM
Next he'll take away their recliners and force everyone to take a strike. ;)


Now you're talkin' crazy talk.

Nobody would do that.

:evil:

M2
02-06-2006, 05:57 PM
Makes you wonder if Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera will show up looking like refugees from a Samuel Z. Arkoff production.

Nugget
02-06-2006, 07:24 PM
These guys are professional sportsmen. Like any other profession your employer will have certain rules and regulations. The players don't just play baseball they represent the organisation. Some professional teams have official dress codes for travelling etc. Facial hair is one element of presentation. If you don't like it walk away from your contract.

37red
02-06-2006, 08:18 PM
I guess I won't be able to play, darn.

M2
02-06-2006, 10:35 PM
These guys are professional sportsmen. Like any other profession your employer will have certain rules and regulations. The players don't just play baseball they represent the organisation. Some professional teams have official dress codes for travelling etc. Facial hair is one element of presentation. If you don't like it walk away from your contract.

Are there any companies left that don't allow facial hair?

If so, that's a for-crap operation.

Nugget
02-06-2006, 10:40 PM
There are some organisations that I know of that also don't allow earrings (for both men and women) and also certain kinds of jewellry.

I'm just saying that as an organisation the Marlins aren't just about performance on the field its also about "representing" the organisation. In some circumstances it may even go so far as representing the city.

Cedric
02-06-2006, 10:44 PM
With the rumors of how terrible certain players acted on that team, it's probably just a small signal from Joe of what is to come. The rumors of Miguel Cabrera's actions were pretty strong.

M2
02-06-2006, 11:01 PM
There are some organisations that I know of that also don't allow earrings (for both men and women) and also certain kinds of jewellry.

And good luck getting talented women who'd put up with that little bit of nonsense.


I'm just saying that as an organisation the Marlins aren't just about performance on the field its also about "representing" the organisation. In some circumstances it may even go so far as representing the city.

And are there any cities that ban facial hair?

I just love the insistence that corporate CEOs can wear beards, but for some reason a baseball player can't represent his organization properly if he's stachin'.

I'd love to see a player put this to the test. For instance, say Miggy Cabrera wanted out of town. Why not grow some hair and file to be released from his contract if the Marlins take any action against him? I'm sure he'd be willing to see if he could find any takers on the open market if he and the Marlins can't agree on grooming.

Cedric
02-06-2006, 11:10 PM
I'd love to see a player put this to the test. For instance, say Miggy Cabrera wanted out of town. Why not grow some hair and file to be released from his contract if the Marlins take any action against him? I'm sure he'd be willing to see if he could find any takers on the open market if he and the Marlins can't agree on grooming.

The player would be trashed up and down. I'm not saying I agree with the rule, but the majority of fans would just attack him as another spoiled athlete.

cincinnati chili
02-06-2006, 11:27 PM
And are there any cities that ban facial hair?

.

If I'm not mistaken, many police and fire departments forbid beards.

Disney first allowed mustaches in 2000.

Anyone know Proctor/Gamble's policy? They're pretty conservative, I know.

My biggest problem with this policy is that it's not coming from Disney. It's not coming from P&G. It's coming from a rookie manager of a joke franchise.

I can see both sides to this, and respect 62's earlier point about Girardi wanting to show who's boss right off the bat. But I'm sure there are better ways to do this, which wouldn't make the papers, nor reduce team morale when morale is already decimated from the firesale.

Redleg75
02-06-2006, 11:34 PM
Way to go Girardi. Most of us -- even those not in the entertainment business adhere to dress code. Not having your team look like hairy deshevled monkeys is certainly a reasonable request. I hope Castellini has the courage to request the same. Wait, we used to do that too right? Back when we were winners? Please -- save the facial hair doesn't = good pitcing comments. Rules and discipline are good -- fat players who think playing for the reds is cool cuz there is no pressure is bad.

M2
02-06-2006, 11:35 PM
The player would be trashed up and down. I'm not saying I agree with the rule, but the majority of fans would just attack him as another spoiled athlete.

Let's be honest, the Marlins barely have fans and fans in 29 other cities mostly would be screaming to snag the kid.

I'm all for players and teams using the leverage they have to get what they want. Miguel Cabrera probably doesn't want to spend the next three or four years carrying his teammates in a Baseball Bjorn. If Joe Girardi's hair fetish opens a door for him to get out of town, why not rush through?

M2
02-06-2006, 11:43 PM
Not having your team look like hairy deshevled monkeys is certainly a reasonable request.

I may have the opportunity to sit down with Larry Ellison in the near future, I'll make sure to let him know that he's really just a disheveled monkey when you get right down to it.

chili, some of the best facial hair arrangements I've seen have been on big city PDs and FDs. I'm sure there are plenty with such regulations, but facial hair is a time-honored tradition in a lot of big city departments. I don't think any department in our neck of the woods has those kinds of regs.

Number_Fourteen
02-07-2006, 12:04 AM
I may have the opportunity to sit down with Larry Ellison in the near future, I'll make sure to let him know that he's really just a disheveled monkey when you get right down to it.http://www.geocities.com/schumy27/larry.jpg :laugh:

Johnny Footstool
02-07-2006, 09:20 AM
It's a policy and a philosophy I disagree with. It's a misguided attempt to earn respect by enforcing meaningless rules. You want to earn respect? Show me that you care more about winning than you do about my shaving habits.

Raisor
02-07-2006, 09:24 AM
I'd like to see a shaving policy enforced here on Redszone. Men can do anything we want. Women MUST shave their legs at least every other day.

TeamBoone
02-07-2006, 10:48 AM
If I'm not mistaken, many police and fire departments forbid beards.

Disney first allowed mustaches in 2000.

Anyone know Proctor/Gamble's policy? They're pretty conservative, I know.

Regarding police and firemen, I would assume the policy has to do with safety.

Regarding Procter and Gamble, both beards and long hair are allowed, from the execs on down. I remember meeting with one guy (a suit) who's hair was down to his waist, but it was tastefully pulled back and you wouldn't even have known it if he didn't turn around.

Granted I've never seen a guy with a ragged, mountain man beard or wild, dirty, unkempt long hair at P&G; all have been well groomed.

IslandRed
02-07-2006, 02:39 PM
The bottom line for me is this -- I've never heard a convincing argument for why having facial hair is a character flaw, discipline problem or on-field performance detractor. I mean, really. Does anyone seriously believe that if the Big Red Machine guys hadn't used the razors come spring training, they'd have played the game any differently?

Image thing, sure. Personal preference, OK. Character issue or discipline problem, no.

TeamBoone
02-07-2006, 03:22 PM
Totally agree, IslandRed. It's one of the silliest things to demand... some guys have probably had a small beard or moustache since they were old enough to grow facial hair. In my mind, no one should have the right to do that.... to ask someone to wash or trim an unkempt beard or hair, yeah, probably... but to get rid of it? Nah.