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corkedbat
01-27-2006, 08:45 AM
does a potential defensive alignment of:

1B Dunn
2B Aurillia
SS Lopez
3B Encarnacion
LF Womack
CF Griffey (or Pena)
RF Pena (or Griffey)
C LaRue

scare anybody. :eek:

Kept me up all night last night. :D

dougdirt
01-27-2006, 01:41 PM
That alignment doesnt scare me defensively, but I would much rather see Freel or Denorfia in one of the corner OF spots than Womack.

Ravenlord
01-27-2006, 01:43 PM
does a potential defensive alignment of:

1B Dunn
2B Aurillia
SS Lopez
3B Encarnacion
LF Womack
CF Griffey (or Pena)
RF Pena (or Griffey)
C LaRue

scare anybody. :eek:

Kept me up all night last night. :D
only at 2B, SS, LF, CF, and RF.

M2
01-27-2006, 01:51 PM
My lineup, minus Kearns, would be:

2B - Freel
SS - Lopez
1B - Dunn
LF - Jr.
RF - Pena
3B - Encarnacion
C - Larue
CF - Denorfia

It's a little right-handed at the bottom, I figure it would be one of the higher scoring units in the NL.

dougdirt
01-27-2006, 02:34 PM
m2, just curious as to why you would move Griffey to a corner in favor of Denorfia?

westofyou
01-27-2006, 02:37 PM
m2, just curious as to why you would move Griffey to a corner in favor of Denorfia?
Because Griffey has the range of a Sherman Tank.

RFS62
01-27-2006, 02:39 PM
It might make an injury more likely though. He's said before it's a lot harder to play the corners, where you have to make sudden stops at the wall instead of running it out in center.

TheGARB
01-27-2006, 02:40 PM
Because Griffey has the range of a Sherman Tank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman

Mobility
Power plant diesel General Motors 6046
375 hp (280 kW)
Suspension flat spring
Road speed 48 km/h
Power/weight 12.5 hp/tonne
Range 240 km

That's pretty good range for a 35-year old outfielder. :evil:

reds44
01-27-2006, 02:44 PM
I really don't think Griffey is moving to the COF.

My lineup would be:
Platoon Freel and Deno in LF

When Freel plays:
LF Freel
SS-FeLo
CF- Jr.
1B-Dunn
RF-WMP
C- LaRue
2B- RA
3B-EE

When Denorfia plays:
SS- FeLo
2b- RA
CF- Griffey
1B-Dunn
RF-WMP
C-LaRue
3B-EE
LF- Denorfia

And you know when somebody needs a day off, Freel will be in there playing whatever position he has to. The scary thing is, we are eventually going to see a lineup with both RA and Womack in it. Yikes.

dfs
01-27-2006, 02:48 PM
I think there's a big difference between "our lineups" and the ones the reds are likely to use.....which right now looks like
RF Kearns
CF Junior
LF Pena
1 Dunn
2 Womack
3 Rich A.
SS Lopez
C LaRue

Move a corner outfielder and all they'll do is slide Freel into that slot.

reds44
01-27-2006, 02:51 PM
I think there's a big difference between "our lineups" and the ones the reds are likely to use.....which right now looks like
RF Kearns
CF Junior
LF Pena
1 Dunn
2 Womack
3 Rich A.
SS Lopez
C LaRue

Move a corner outfielder and all they'll do is slide Freel into that slot.

I agree with that. It is sad, but I think EE will be starting the year in AAA. Not that I agree with doing that.

M2
01-27-2006, 02:53 PM
m2, just curious as to why you would move Griffey to a corner in favor of Denorfia?

What WOY said for the most part. Jr.'s the worst defensive CF in the game due to lack of range. If the Reds want to fix the OF defense then Jr.'s got to shift over.

Even if Denorfia's not in the picture, say Kearns isn't dealt, I still wouldn't play Jr. in CF. Pena's been better CF than Jr. two years running and that gap will only get wider as Pena gains experience and Jr. ages. I actually think Jr. would play the corners better than Wily Mo (who seemingly can't read the ball unless he's in CF) so you'd be looking at a win-win by flipping their positions.

reds44, why would you platoon two RH hitters? Plus, Freel had a .419 OB vs. southpaws last season, so I'd want that up top in my lineup.

reds44
01-27-2006, 02:57 PM
What WOY said for the most part. Jr.'s the worst defensive CF in the game due to lack of range. If the Reds want to fix the OF defense then Jr.'s got to shift over.

Even if Denorfia's not in the picture, say Kearns isn't dealt, I still wouldn't play Jr. in CF. Pena's been better CF than Jr. two years running and that gap will only get wider as Pena gains experience and Jr. ages. I actually think Jr. would play the corners better than Wily Mo (who seemingly can't read the ball unless he's in CF) so you'd be looking at a win-win by flipping their positions.

reds44, why would you platoon two RH hitters? Plus, Freel had a .419 OB vs. southpaws last season, so I'd want that up top in my lineup.

Yeah I was thinking about that. It isn't so much of a "platoon" as it is Freel playing some other positions when other players aren't in the lineup that day.

dougdirt
01-27-2006, 03:00 PM
M2, I was just wondering if your reasoning was more "injury" talk or range talk. Mainly because Griffey has been getting hurt in the transition of going as fast as he can, to slowing down, where he would do a lot more of the playing a corner position than in CF.

M2
01-27-2006, 03:07 PM
I think there's a big difference between "our lineups" and the ones the reds are likely to use.....which right now looks like
RF Kearns
CF Junior
LF Pena
1 Dunn
2 Womack
3 Rich A.
SS Lopez
C LaRue

Move a corner outfielder and all they'll do is slide Freel into that slot.

You're most likely right (unless they hire a GM like Antonetti or DePodesta who puts up a prohibition on playing Aurilia and Womack). My experience on this board is that posters here generally come up with better ideas than what we've seen on the field in recent years. Hopefully Dunn somewhere in the 2-3-4 slots is a given, that would be a start. I'd really like to see Freel up top on a daily basis as well. The offense really pops when he's the leadoff hitter.

TheGARB
01-27-2006, 03:42 PM
I'd really like to see Freel up top on a daily basis as well. The offense really pops when he's the leadoff hitter.

Not so fast, my friend! :p:


Reds Team runs per game by starting lineup position.
Lead-off GAMES R/G
Lopez 62 5.2
Jimenez 14 5.1
Freel 87 4.9

2nd Batter GAMES R/G
Olmedo 2 8.5
Encarnacion 1 8
LaRue 2 7.5
Randa 13 6.5
Freel 2 6.5
Aurilia 43 5.3
Jimenez 4 5.2
Lopez 61 5.1
Griffey 23 4.2
Casey 1 3
Bergolla 4 2.8
Kearns 3 2.7
Dunn 4 1

3rd Batter GAMES R/G
Randa 4 5.5
Griffey 43 5.4
Dunn 19 5.2
Casey 89 4.9
Aurilia 5 4
Lopez 3 3.7

4th Batter GAMES R/G
Pena 11 5.6
Dunn 34 5.6
Griffey 60 5.4
Aurilia 12 5.4
Kearns 28 4.1
Randa 16 3.9
Valentin 1 0
Casey 1 0

5th Batter GAMES R/G
Aurilia 3 8.3
LaRue 3 6.3
Pena 14 6.2
Valentin 7 5.7
Casey 42 5.1
Randa 23 4.7
Dunn 60 4.7
Kearns 11 4.2

6th Batter GAMES R/G
Cruz 4 8.2
Kearns 44 5.9
Dunn 32 5.4
Encarnacion 1 5
Pena 25 4.7
Aurilia 12 4.5
Randa 29 4.4
LaRue 9 3.9
Valentin 3 2.3
Lopez 3 2.3
Jimenez 1 2

7th Batter GAMES R/G
Dunn 4 6.2
Valentin 16 5.9
Jimenez 4 5.8
Cruz 8 5.5
Denorfia 3 5.3
Aurilia 28 5.2
Kearns 17 5.1
Lopez 8 5
Kelly 1 5
LaRue 30 4.9
Encarnacion 17 4.8
Pena 25 4.4
Romano 2 3

8th Batter GAMES R/G
Bergolla 2 8.5
Cruz 1 7
Holbert 4 5.8
Valentin 31 5.2
Olmedo 11 5.1
Encarnacion 35 5.1
LaRue 60 5
Denorfia 4 5
Lopez 4 4.8
Pena 3 4.3
Romano 4 2.8
Aurilia 4 2.8

So, the Reds best lineup in 2005 would have been:
1. Lopez SS
2. Olmedo CF
3. Randa 3B
4. Pena RF
5. Aurilia C
6. Cruz 1B
7. Dunn LF
8. Bergolla 2B

Now THAT is a potent lineup. :evil:

KronoRed
01-27-2006, 03:44 PM
Would that lineup win..ANY games? ;)

dfs
01-31-2006, 10:55 AM
I'm not much of one for batting order effects, but simply not having a middle infielder hit behind Adam Dunn will make this a better team. Several games last year Adam hit behind Jimenez and it was maddening. If you were the other team, would you pitch to Adam Dunn when you've got a guy who can't his his weight behind him? I know Adam will take a walk if you give it to him, but they simply have to put a hitter behind him. That's a no-brainer to make this team better.

About the playing of Womack and Aurilia...Narron has made it very clear that he is more comfortable with that type of player than an untested rookie. I'm sure Narron will feel like he is being evaluted on hid won/loss record and do what he thinks he needs to do in order to win the most games. They need a GM to 'splain things to him and until that GM arrives, I expect we'll see an unhealthy dose of Womack polluting our offensive sequences.

deltachi8
01-31-2006, 11:41 AM
Because Griffey has the range of a Sherman Tank.

Ya know, Mr. Sherman might be a little offended by that...

StillFunkyB
01-31-2006, 10:19 PM
It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach to think that EdE is going to sit in favor of Rich Freakin Aurillia.

Ok, now that I got that out of the way.....

I'm with M2 on this one, JR should move to LF. If he's gonna get hurt, he's gonna get hurt. I think I remember reading a scouting report on Wily Mo a few years ago and it stated that he was much better in CF.

This is why I don't want to see Ears traded. I would rather see JR in LF then RF. Ahh, who am I kiddin. JR is the CF and Aurillia is the 3rd baseman...BLAH.

( and JR is my favorite Red too )

Willy
02-01-2006, 05:24 PM
Where do you guys pull of these stats from. Is there a website you can use to get all of these stats?

I would love to see a comparison of Griffey's range at GABP vs rest of centerfielders While playing in GABP.

M2
02-01-2006, 06:57 PM
Where do you guys pull of these stats from. Is there a website you can use to get all of these stats?

I would love to see a comparison of Griffey's range at GABP vs rest of centerfielders While playing in GABP.

You can get raw fielding stats from here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/

Just click on whatever year interests you, scroll down to the defensive section and look under the position. You'll notice that Jr.'s been bringing up the rear of the team's CF crew (in terms of range) since 2001.

Willy
02-01-2006, 07:45 PM
Thanks
I feel smarter already!