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View Full Version : Hal McCoy: "Dunn Played '05 with Broken Hand"



MikeS21
01-27-2006, 11:56 PM
Here's the link:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0128reds.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=29


Dunn played '05 with broken hand
Reds slugger says injury still hurts
By Hal McCoy

Dayton Daily News

Adam Dunn hit 40 home runs last season. He drove in 101 runs, scored 107 runs and walked 114 times — all with a broken right hand.

It's his football mentality.

Reds manager Jerry Narron let it slip this week at a Dayton Agonis Club meeting when somebody criticized Dunn.

"He broke his hand twice last year and wouldn't let us X-ray it because he wanted to play," said Narron.

When Dunn was asked about it, he uttered a profanity and said, "He isn't supposed to be talking about that. It was not that big of a deal."

Asked how long the hand hurt, Dunn said, "What time is it now?"

So, it still hurts.

"Yeah, I had it checked this week and the doctor said I should put a splint on it, but the heck with that," said the man who takes over first base for the Cincinnati Reds this year.

Dunn, a former scholarship quarterback at the University of Texas before he was the Reds' No. 2 draft choice in 1998, believes a little ol' hairline fracture shouldn't stop a 6-foot-6, 275-pound Texan.

And it didn't.

"In May in Houston, I was diving back into third base on a pickoff play and Morgan Ensberg stepped on the hand," he said.

Dunn played on.

"Later in the year, some home game and I don't remember who, I was hit on the hand, same exact spot," he said. "I remember how I used to make fun of Aaron Boone for getting hit on the hands all the time and asking him, 'How does that happen? How can you get hit on the hand? Can't you get out of the way?' Now I know."

Dunn was preparing Thursday morning to attend a dinner in Houston, where he was to receive the Major League Player of the Year award from the Houston baseball writers. It was suggested they were buttering him up for when he becomes a free agent after the 2007 season, so he'll sign with his hometown Astros.

"Don't know about that," he said. "I do know I thought it was a small gathering, but they told me today there would be 1,700 people there. If I had known that I would have said no."

Dunn, 26 and the owner of 158 homers in his four seasons with the Reds, is an arbitration case, asking for $8.95 million for this season. The Reds are offering $7.1 million.

Asked if the Reds had talked to him about signing a multi-year contract, he said, "That is a big no. Not a word. I've heard rumors, but nothing official."

Now that the team is under new ownership and a new general manager is coming aboard, Dunn hopes that changes.

"I've heard great stuff about the new owner (Bob Castellini)," he said. "He showed this team a lot by stepping right in and firing Dan O'Brien. I love that he wasn't afraid to do something. I hear he is a guy who will hang around the clubhouse and I love that.

"Too many owners you feel like they're the Pope and that you have to take off your shoes in their presence. But I heard Castellini is a regular dude and I look forward to meeting him," he added.

And his checkbook?

Dunn is looking even more forward to the first day he arrives in spring training camp, and his teammates have been forewarned. He remains a huge University of Texas fan and was at the Rose Bowl for the Longhorns' national championship victory over Southern California.

"I took a lot of heat and grief from teammates about Texas last fall," he said. "I'm going to have some fun when I get there and they're going to hear it from me non-stop."

There might be orange-and-white crepe paper decorating the clubhouse and he said a lot of his teammates might be forced to wear orange T-shirts under their uniform tops.

KearnsyEars
01-28-2006, 12:02 AM
I LOVE DUNN.. Gosh lets make him a career red. Throw back ball player. I can't say enough good stuff about Adam

Caseyfan21
01-28-2006, 12:04 AM
It seems stupid that he didn't get it checked out over the offseason. That's my only take. We will be paying him a large amount of money this year and to think he didn't say anything about it is IMO foolish. I understand playing through pain but it really doesn't matter on a team like the Reds were last year. Maybe play through it during the year but at least go get it fixed in the offseason, especially with his potential.

That's also interesting about him not even being offered a long term deal yet and his comments concerning O'Brien. Seems like he really lacked credibility and presence with the players as well.

Reds4Life
01-28-2006, 12:11 AM
The guy is a warrior, but ignoring the doctors recommendations in the off-season isn't too bright. Why go into next year in pain if you don’t have too?

Slider
01-28-2006, 12:18 AM
10 feet tall and bulletproof...

MikeS21
01-28-2006, 12:46 AM
Unfortunately, it's injuries like this that tend to become those nagging injuries that plague a player over the course of several seasons. Dunn should have had it treated and taken the necessary time on the DL in order for it to heal properly.

If his hand is still hurting after all this time, the injury is more serious than Dunn wants to admit. He could be facing surgery.

Slyder
01-28-2006, 01:05 AM
Wow, guess that explains why he was talking so many pitches and being so overly patient... I couldnt imagine trying to hit anything with a bat or trying to catch the ball. He really does need to get it looked at though dont want career shortened because he tried to be cowboy tough guy and play through it for too long.

harangatang
01-28-2006, 01:06 AM
Adam Dunn is Cincinnati's version of Jeff Bagwell.

George Foster
01-28-2006, 01:09 AM
If he is not listening to the reds doctors, who elso won't he listen too?
No excuse not to get it checked out over the off-season. It's not bruised ribs that we are talking about, it's his hand. What if he get's hit again in spring training?

I think Dunn is great, but being hard-headed could hurt him and the team.

pedro
01-28-2006, 01:18 AM
Well, if it was really a danger to not heal I imagine the doctors would force him to wear a cast. I agree though that I'd rather he be more cautious.

It says alot about Dunn's character that we never heard a peep about this last year IMO. Same goes for Larue and his hand/wrist injuries. While I don't want hurt players out there when they can't contribute, I do appreciate the guys who do play hurt if they can still help the team. I bet JD Drew sure wouldn't be playing if he had a broken hand.

And pretty strong statement about DanO too. I'm glad the players are juiced about the new ownership and forthcoming new management, it sure doesn't hurt the Reds when it comes to negotiation. If Dunn really likes the city of Cincinnati as he has said he does, I'm guessing this changing of the guard is going to increase the Reds chances of signing him long term.

SteelSD
01-28-2006, 01:19 AM
Wow, guess that explains why he was talking so many pitches and being so overly patient... I couldnt imagine trying to hit anything with a bat or trying to catch the ball. He really does need to get it looked at though dont want career shortened because he tried to be cowboy tough guy and play through it for too long.

Yeah. He does need to splint that thing up immediately just to be on the safe side. However, if Dunn was able to check his swing with a broken hand, I think that it probably wasn't all that serious a thing. Still, you have to be careful. Tiny bones.

As for taking pitches

Adam Dunn- Career MLB:

2001- 4.12 Pitches per PA
2002- 4.28
2003- 4.33
2004- 4.24
2005- 4.24

Team Clark
01-28-2006, 01:22 AM
Dunner... go get it fixed so we can see you go "off" this year.

TeamBoone
01-28-2006, 01:57 AM
Yikes! I can't imagine what he might have done without the hairline fracture. He's one tough dude, though I too think it's kind of strange that he hasn't had it checked out before now, especially if it's hurting.

And does anyone else find it odd that that the Houston baseball writers are awarding Adam their Player of the Year award? I think who ever said they're buttering him up is correct.

Lastly, I find this statement to be telling:


Asked if the Reds had talked to him about signing a multi-year contract, he said, "That is a big no. Not a word. I've heard rumors, but nothing official."

Didn't someone say in another thread that they asked Kullman point-blank about Adam and a long-term contract and he said that wasn't going well? I may be mistaken. I tried to find it but it's late, I'm tired, and I gave up.

It made me tip my head and go "what the....". Sounds like someone isn't telling the truth here... and personally, I believe Adam.

Oh, and then there's that other guy who no longer works for the Reds that said working on a LT contract with Adam was a priority...

Caseyfan21
01-28-2006, 02:02 AM
I really wish Hal hadn't let this out of the bag. IF we do decide to trade Dunn, how much would this lower his trade value? I think it's pretty obvious he's the one that needs to be traded. He's got the most value and he's a lot less likely than Kearns to sign a long term contract here. I just really hope his value doesn't nosedive when teams realize he's damaged goods.

Aronchis
01-28-2006, 02:34 AM
I wouldn't get upset over Dunn LTC stuff. Everybody was waiting for Cast(especially DanO;) ) so that type of decision wasn't going to made.

Now that the Reds will have a new regime, anything could happen. Sounds like if Kullman had a choice, Dunn and Lopez would be LTC'd with Casts approval. But it is also possible the Reds trade him in a bidding war. I guess the timetable when the Reds can logically win again is key. Cast doesn't sound like a patient man.

WVRedsFan
01-28-2006, 02:56 AM
First off, I'm going to say this regardless of what anyone thinks. Even the thought of trading Adam Dunn should be banned from this board, the press, the front office, everywhere.

Folks, in this namby-panby world of sensitive baseball players, we have Adam Dunn. A man who just wants to play. Broken hand or no, he hits 40 HR's, plays every day and just wants to win. Lower his trade value? Who gives a flying leap? This is the kind of player you build a franchise around.

There should be a baeball rule that says Adam Dunn stays a Red until he dies or retires. I'm am so impressed with his attitude. If all of the Reds had this attitude, we'd be in first place, which leads me to this...who in name of all that's holy could you get who would play hurt and still do so well? No one.

Forgetaboutit. Pencil him in for the next 10 years, make him untouchable and build around him. The alternative is not pretty.

KronoRed
01-28-2006, 02:59 AM
Sounds like someone isn't telling the truth here... and personally, I believe Adam.

Same here, I don't believe one thing that the Dan O empire told us.

A broken hand?

Dunn The Man.

flyer85
01-28-2006, 05:07 AM
I knew it. I remember when he got plunked in early August, my thought when it happened was he might have broken his hand because he got nailed. His power dipped severly after that. I think he missed one game.

icehole3
01-28-2006, 06:34 AM
I have no leanings one way or the other with Dunn. If they trade him so be it, if he stays...cool. He should get the hand fixed and dont think for a minute pitchers wont be coming inside on him this year.

OnBaseMachine
01-28-2006, 06:48 AM
I love, just love Adam Dunn...as a BASEBALL player! .930 OPS and 40 homeruns with a broken hand. Just unreal. The broken hand explains his huge dropoff in power late in the year. He may have hit closer to 50 if not for the injury.

Dunn is a warrior. Lock him up for 5 or more years; give him 10 million a year if you have to.

RedsBaron
01-28-2006, 07:53 AM
Dunn is a warrior. Lock him up for 5 or years; give him 10 million a year if you have to.
5 years at 10 million a year? If Dunn will do it, I hope the Reds do it.

wheels
01-28-2006, 08:00 AM
What WVRed said times ten.

RFS62
01-28-2006, 08:08 AM
He's got to get this completely analyzed, know EXACTLY what's wrong, and get it fixed.

I like a warrior too. Remember Casey playing with a bad shoulder? How'd that work out for us?

I love his guts, but assess the situation and get it fixed.

MikeS21
01-28-2006, 09:24 AM
I'm not opposed to trading Adam Dunn. I just can't think of any young starting pitcher out there whom I would be willing to let Adam go for.

steig
01-28-2006, 09:40 AM
That's sacrafice, but if he doesn't listen to the doctors and get it fixed during the off season he could end up hurting the Reds more in 2006 than he hoped to help in 2005 by playing with the broken hand. If the team is going to sign him long term to a contract then he has to get this fixed so it doesn't become a long term problem that he never gets back from.

RedsManRick
01-28-2006, 10:08 AM
Why do I get the feeling that the hand injury is gonna come back to bite him?

MikeS21
01-28-2006, 10:20 AM
Why do I get the feeling that the hand injury is gonna come back to bite him?
Probably because the hand is still hurting him even though its been almost four months since the season ended.

At this point, he could miss spring training, and it may be June before he plays himself into shape.

Falls City Beer
01-28-2006, 10:26 AM
So what's your all's take if he's got 12 HRs at the all-star break?

I know mine: dumb.

NewEraReds
01-28-2006, 10:40 AM
I LOVE DUNN.. Gosh lets make him a career red. Throw back ball player. I can't say enough good stuff about Adam
i love it too, but hes still hurt and refusing to get it fixed in the offseason. thats just DUMB. hes hurting the team and himself. if he were healthy and IN SHAPE he'd be so much better

Unassisted
01-28-2006, 10:46 AM
I'm also firmly in the "get this fixed during the offseason" camp.

The baseball reasons are obvious, but quality of life is a consideration, too. He's going to end up with hands that don't bend in some directions if he continues to ignore fractures and medical advice. If he thinks a few weeks of life with a hand cast is a drag at 26, being a retired player with useless hands at age 40 is much worse.

NewEraReds
01-28-2006, 10:48 AM
I'm also firmly in the "get this fixed during the offseason" camp.

The baseball reasons are obvious, but quality of life is a consideration, too. He's going to end up with hands that don't bend in some directions if he continues to ignore fractures and medical advice. If he thinks a few weeks of life with a hand cast is a drag at 26, being a retired player with useless hands at age 40 is much worse.

dunn doesnt strike me as the smartest guy when it comes to things like this, so my guess, unless we sign him and then force him to get it fixed, it wont

westofyou
01-28-2006, 10:49 AM
dunn doesnt strike me as the smartest guy when it comes to things like this,
Oh please, you're killing me.

TeamBoone
01-28-2006, 11:05 AM
I really wish Hal hadn't let this out of the bag. IF we do decide to trade Dunn, how much would this lower his trade value? I think it's pretty obvious he's the one that needs to be traded.

Obvious? I don't think so. To me it's more obvious that he should be retained. Letting some good players go in an attempt to obtain pitching is the right thing to do. Letting a franchise player go is another matter entirely.

Lower his trade value? I highly doubt that as well. He performed very well, despite that.

Should he get it fixed? Absolutely! And once he's back under the wings of the Reds in ST, I wouldn't be surprised if they demand it. They may not even have known about this until the end of the season if Adam chose to keep it to himself.

TeamBoone
01-28-2006, 11:10 AM
I wouldn't get upset over Dunn LTC stuff. Everybody was waiting for Cast(especially DanO;) ) so that type of decision wasn't going to made.

I'm not particularly upset over it. What upsets me is that someone is lying... one person previously with this organization stated to the press that signing him long-term was a number one offseason priority. Now, a second person has been quoted as saying than an attempt to sign him long-term is "not going well".

And now we learn, from the donkey's own mouth, that he has heard nada about this.

That's what upsets me! :angry:

westofyou
01-28-2006, 11:15 AM
And now we learn, from the donkey's own mouth, that he has heard nada about this. Chances are that his agent has been so disappointed withthe LT offers that he hasn't even talked to Dunn about it, if my lawyer is negotiating for me I don't want to hear from him until an offer that resembles the one we discussed is made.

Until then I don't want to hear squat, Dunn is the catbird seat, he can't go anywhere, he'll be signed regardless and he'll make money, his future right now is pretty set, he's playing baseball next month.

All the other stuff only gets dealt with when it surfaces.

MikeS21
01-28-2006, 11:28 AM
I'm not particularly upset over it. What upsets me is that someone is lying... one person previously with this organization stated to the press that signing him long-term was a number one offseason priority. Now, a second person has been quoted as saying than an attempt to sign him long-term is "not going well".

And now we learn, from the donkey's own mouth, that he has heard nada about this.

That's what upsets me! :angry:
That does not necessarily mean Kullman is lying. It might mean that Dunn's agent has more than one client and hasn't filled Dunn in on all the deatils of negotiations. And if Dunn's agent is demanding an unreasonable contract - say similar to Junior's, then I can see where things might not be "going well."

I'm trying to find the article I read from several weeks ago, where Dunn was specifically asked about a LTC and Adam said that he was staying out of it and letting his agent was handle all that. I concede that Dunn's words may have been used out of context, but the net result was the impression Adam was aware of talk about aLTC, but he was allowinghis agentto hammer out thedetails. Now, he's heard "nada."

Seems like we're getting conflicting reports from both camps.

TeamBoone
01-28-2006, 11:30 AM
I don't know, woy. I agree Peterson shouldn't be calling him every five minutes with the latest offer, but it seems to me he should at least alert him to the fact that the Reds are trying... he didn't seem to be aware of this (if it's true). In addition, if Adam doesn't know what the Reds are offering LT, how can any compromise be accomplished.

If my career rested in the hands of my agent, he would not be operating in a vacuum. I'd at least ask for a weekly/bi-weekly update. It's not like he doesn't talk to him, especially since there is an arbitration hearing looming on the horizon.

TeamBoone
01-28-2006, 11:32 AM
I concede that Dunn's words may have been used out of context, but the net result was the impression Adam was aware of talk about aLTC, but he was allowinghis agentto hammer out thedetails. Now, he's heard "nada."

Seems like we're getting conflicting reports from both camps.

Just seems to me that Adam isn't the type of individual to talk in circles. Instead of saying he's heard nothing, not one word, I'd be more apt to think he'd come right out and say "I don't know; my agent is handling that".

creek14
01-28-2006, 11:36 AM
Chances are that his agent has been so disappointed withthe LT offers that he hasn't even talked to Dunn about it, if my lawyer is negotiating for me I don't want to hear from him until an offer that resembles the one we discussed is made.
Adam said just this when he was interviewed on the HSL back in Dec.

Matt700wlw
01-28-2006, 11:51 AM
Another reason to lock this guy up.

KronoRed
01-28-2006, 12:01 PM
Another reason to lock this guy up.
http://www.pimall.com/nais/images/handcuffs.jpg

RFS62
01-28-2006, 12:11 PM
http://www.pimall.com/nais/images/handcuffs.jpg


That would be Creeks approach.

KittyDuran
01-28-2006, 12:14 PM
That would be Creeks approach.:evil:

Caseyfan21
01-28-2006, 12:36 PM
Let me just clarify my position concerning trading Dunn since so many have said we should keep him. I'm 100% for keeping Adam Dunn, throwing money towards him for a huge LTC. However, the reason I believe we should trade him is because I fear he has no intentions of wanting to sign long term with the Reds. I think it's going to take an extraordinary amount of money to lock him up, money the Reds can't afford to pay one player. That's just my opinion and it differes from a lot of others, but I just don't see Dunn wanting to stay long term. Hopefully he will get along with the new ownership and sign on the dotted line for something that won't break the bank. I guess I'm just pessimistic about the odds of that happening.

Caseyfan21
01-28-2006, 12:51 PM
From Marc's blog:

Team says Dunn is OK

You've seen the published report today that says Adam Dunn broke his right hand twice last year and it is still bothering him.

According to the Reds, there are currently no problems with the hand and any suggestion otherwise is "100 percent not true." They say Dunn is fine and has been fine.

Jpup
01-28-2006, 12:57 PM
From Marc's blog:

Team says Dunn is OK

You've seen the published report today that says Adam Dunn broke his right hand twice last year and it is still bothering him.

According to the Reds, there are currently no problems with the hand and any suggestion otherwise is "100 percent not true." They say Dunn is fine and has been fine.

so, they are saying that Hal is lying? imagine that.

MikeS21
01-28-2006, 01:06 PM
so, they are saying that Hal is lying? imagine that.
Or they were in the middle of trade talks involving Adam and Hal has spoken out of turn. Jerry Narron is the one who said Dunn was hurt and Dunn basically said that his hand still hurts.

Methinks the FO protests too much for something not to be in the wind.

dougflynn23
01-28-2006, 01:07 PM
If he is not listening to the reds doctors, who elso won't he listen too?
No excuse not to get it checked out over the off-season. It's not bruised ribs that we are talking about, it's his hand. What if he get's hit again in spring training?

I think Dunn is great, but being hard-headed could hurt him and the team. :( How much do you want to bet that Dunn will hear the hand issue brought up in his upcoming arbitration case? I'm beginning to believe that Jerry Narron is an idiot. If I were Dunn, preparing to head into arbitration, I'd be so pissed at "Baseball Guy" for letting this slip out it wouldn't be funny.

redsfan30
01-28-2006, 01:20 PM
so, they are saying that Hal is lying? imagine that.
Hal is going of what Jerry Narron said at the Caravan. If you want to call anyone a liar, it'd be Jerry Narron.

Jpup
01-28-2006, 01:38 PM
Hal is going of what Jerry Narron said at the Caravan. If you want to call anyone a liar, it'd be Jerry Narron.

all I know is that I see Hal write things that turn out to not be 100% true, a lot of the time.

TeamBoone
01-28-2006, 01:56 PM
Sounds more to me like they're calling Adam the liar.

TeamBoone
01-28-2006, 01:58 PM
If I were Dunn, preparing to head into arbitration, I'd be so pissed at "Baseball Guy" for letting this slip out it wouldn't be funny.

According to his response to the question, I'd say he wasn't too happy about it.


When Dunn was asked about it, he uttered a profanity and said, "He isn't supposed to be talking about that. It was not that big of a deal."

RedFanAlways1966
01-28-2006, 02:13 PM
all I know is that I see Hal write things that turn out to not be 100% true, a lot of the time.

What? I'd love to see some examples. Writers have to rely on sources sometimes... esp. during the DOB 2-year reign. During the year writers have to do speculating and rely on "inside" sources. Because something does not happen in the end does not mean it was not being discussed. And most GMs will not admit to trying to deal a player when that deal fell through in the end (and that is understandable).

Hal must do something right and tell true stories... he is in the writer's wing in Cooperstown. Judge that as you will, but it is an honer that many dead baseball beat writers never got.

westofyou
01-28-2006, 02:22 PM
What? I'd love to see some examples.

Delino DeShields will be a Red.

I remember that.

Chip R
01-28-2006, 02:29 PM
Delino DeShields will be a Red.

I remember that.
Jack McKeon is a candidate for GM.

RedFanAlways1966
01-28-2006, 02:30 PM
Delino DeShields will be a Red.

I remember that.

Yep. And I doubt that Hal made that up. It goes with the job of being a beat writer. Fay, McCoy, Ritter Collett (H-of-F), Si Burick (H-of-F), etc... they all have to rely on sources and the like from time-to-time. I am sure they hear some things that they feel are not really worthy of publication. Writers would be better off if they could sit in the GM's office each day, but they do not. It goes w/ the territory.

Hal has been on the beat for a long time. He is no worse than any other beat writer that has been on the job for that amount of time. And he must be better than many due to the plaque in midstate NY. I would not call the man a liar. I do not think he purposely attempts to mislead his writers... which I would define as a liar.

But I have met Hal more than once and know him. So I might be a bit biased! :)

westofyou
01-28-2006, 02:36 PM
Yep. And I doubt that Hal made that up.

Fred Lieb is in the HOF, one of the most respected baseball writers of all time... some of his stuff has been proven wrong.

It happens.

StillFunkyB
01-28-2006, 02:44 PM
I hope Bobby C. steps in and does something about this LTC issue with Dunn.

BCubb2003
01-28-2006, 03:07 PM
If you count up all the trade rumors that get reported and then go back later and count which ones came true, none of the sportswriters is going to have a good average. It's just fuel for the hot stove.

Unassisted
01-28-2006, 03:47 PM
According to the Reds, there are currently no problems with the hand and any suggestion otherwise is "100 percent not true." They say Dunn is fine and has been fine.


When Dunn was asked about it, he uttered a profanity and said, "He isn't supposed to be talking about that. It was not that big of a deal."Dunn's denial doesn't seem to convey that the hand wasn't broken. It conveys that he doesn't want to talk about it. Seems to me that if it wasn't broken, he would have said "that's not true," rather than "he shouldn't have said that."

His denial appears to say that Narron spoke the truth, but did so out of turn.

I'm going to believe this is a cover-up until Dunn says the hand wasn't broken.

dougflynn23
01-28-2006, 04:02 PM
What? I'd love to see some examples. Writers have to rely on sources sometimes... esp. during the DOB 2-year reign. During the year writers have to do speculating and rely on "inside" sources. Because something does not happen in the end does not mean it was not being discussed. And most GMs will not admit to trying to deal a player when that deal fell through in the end (and that is understandable).

Hal must do something right and tell true stories... he is in the writer's wing in Cooperstown. Judge that as you will, but it is an honer that many dead baseball beat writers never got. :( This has been a topic that has been beaten to death here, but while I respect Hal McCoy's past work, he is a bitter old crumudgeon who has been pissed off at the Reds ever since John Allen took away his exclusitivity pipeline a few years back. This was told to me by a former Reds beat writer who said that Hal got stories leaked to him because of his difficulty in navigating the clubhouse due to his failing eyesight. When John Allen got complaints from the other paper's editors, he ended the practice. Hal has been on a jihad against the Reds ever since. He should retire with what dignity he still has.

ps. Hal's "source" on most things is the other HOF'er in the organization, and they've even started to bark at each other a little since the Sean Casey deal.

Unassisted
01-28-2006, 08:59 PM
The Reds are going to have to make their official denial a little louder now. The disputed broken hand has made its way into an AP story that will be in tomorrow's newspapers everywhere.


Reds' Dunn played last year with broken hand
Associated Press

CINCINNATI - Adam Dunn says he played most of last season for the Cincinnati Reds with a broken right hand - and it still hurts.

Dunn, who hit .247 with 40 home runs and 101 RBIs, said Thursday the hairline fracture happened when he dived into third base on a pickoff play during a game last May in Houston.

Later in the year Dunn was hit by a pitch on the same spot, he said.

Dunn downplayed the injury and said it wasn't a big deal, even though he still feels some pain.

"Yeah, I had it checked this week and the doctor said I should put a splint on it, but the heck with that," said Dunn, who is expected to move from the outfield to first base for the Reds in 2006.

Reds manager Jerry Narron said he was aware of the injury and that Dunn wouldn't let the team X-ray the hand because he wanted to play.

Dunn, 26, is in salary arbitration with the Reds. He's asking for $8.95 million for this season. The Reds are offering $7.1 million.

Information from: Dayton Daily News, http://www.daytondailynews.com

KronoRed
01-28-2006, 09:05 PM
Ahh..offseason fun

Pass the popcorn ;)

RedFanAlways1966
01-28-2006, 09:28 PM
Adam Dunn says he played most of last season for the Cincinnati Reds with a broken right hand - and it still hurts.

Dunn, 26, is in salary arbitration with the Reds. He's asking for $8.95 million for this season. The Reds are offering $7.1 million.

Hmmmm. So your the guy who listens to the arbitration hearing and makes the decision. AD breaks a bone in his hand in May. He refuses to sit b/c he wants to play ball. We all know that you may hurt the team by doing this. I think it is obvious that is not the case here. The guy, with a broken bone most of the year, leads the team in: games played, runs, doubles, HRs, RBIs, OBP, BBs & IBBs. 2nd to Junior in OPS and SLG. And this was considered by many to be a hitting-type of team. Man, to see the results if he plays with all bones in their proper order. Scary for those standing 60'6" away when AD is in the box.

Can you imagine the REDS trying to argue that he deserves "only" $7.1 mill b/c his hand still hurts? As if last year was made bad for AD b/c of the pain and it would be bad for the team to have the same sort of year (see above paragraph, sentence 6). Think of what the big-spending teams would give an Adam Dunn type. Guess we will have to face that reality in the not too distant future. UGH instead of LTC so far.

TylerScottDavis
01-29-2006, 06:33 PM
Just got back from the caravan in Nicholasville, KY, and I questioned Narron about Dunn's hand and whether or not their were any lingering concerns about it going into this year, and he simply said "well, Dunn did pretty good last year, and as long as he's putting up these kind of numbers, then we're not worried". Something along those lines, that's not an EXACT quote. But he never denied a broken hand or even tried to, he just kinda skated around it.

gm
01-29-2006, 06:33 PM
"...the doctor said I should put a splint on it, but the heck with that," said Dunn

After all, a splint would make operating a rod/reel that much more difficult

gm
01-29-2006, 06:38 PM
Remember Casey playing with a bad shoulder? How'd that work out for us?

Nice call, and don't forget Sean's cracked pelvis (in '04, IIRC) Of course Casey caught flak for his true grit (because he was "hurting the team and should've sat out and let someone else play" etc)

TeamBoone
01-29-2006, 07:43 PM
After all, a splint would make operating a rod/reel that much more difficult

Seems like more than a splint would be needed for a broken hand.

M2
01-29-2006, 08:04 PM
Hairline fractures in your hand can heal without a splint. I've done it twice. Broke the hand holding up a swing playing baseball once and the other time I took a bad swing on a spike attempt in volleyball. Had the option of wearing a splint both times, but I wore one with an actual break once and it irked me (though I did like whacking things with it). Took about two months to heal up both times.

Unassisted
01-29-2006, 08:11 PM
After all, a splint would make operating a rod/reel that much more difficultOperating a video game controller was the notion that came to my mind.

SteelSD
01-29-2006, 08:15 PM
Hairline fractures in your hand can heal without a splint. I've done it twice. Broke the hand holding up a swing playing baseball once and the other time I took a bad swing on a spike attempt in volleyball. Had the option of wearing a splint both times, but I wore one with an actual break once and it irked me (though I did whacking things with it). Took about two months to heal up both times.

So after you did the "whacking things" with the splint on, was is your hand that needed to heal?

:evil:

redsfan30
01-29-2006, 08:16 PM
Just throwing my 2 cents in here....

Playing through it during the season is fine with me. But to ignore it all offseason isn't acceptable in my opinion. Why in the world would he ignore something that could be fixed with relative ease and be done with it completely rather than let it linger and possibly effect 2006?

MikeS21
01-29-2006, 08:35 PM
Just throwing my 2 cents in here....

Playing through it during the season is fine with me. But to ignore it all offseason isn't acceptable in my opinion. Why in the world would he ignore something that could be fixed with relative ease and be done with it completely rather than let it linger and possibly effect 2006?
That's my point. The day after the season ended, Dunn should have been to see a doctor and had treatment. But this "hairline fracture" is taking a LONG time to heal.

So what if he put up good numbers with it hurt? Get it treated and put up BETTER numbers.

M2
01-29-2006, 08:41 PM
So after you did the "whacking things" with the splint on, was is your hand that needed to heal?

:evil:

Like I said, it irked me.

Redsland
01-29-2006, 09:01 PM
First off, I'm going to say this regardless of what anyone thinks. Even the thought of trading Adam Dunn should be banned from this board, the press, the front office, everywhere.

Folks, in this namby-panby world of sensitive baseball players, we have Adam Dunn. A man who just wants to play. Broken hand or no, he hits 40 HR's, plays every day and just wants to win. Lower his trade value? Who gives a flying leap? This is the kind of player you build a franchise around.

There should be a baeball rule that says Adam Dunn stays a Red until he dies or retires. I'm am so impressed with his attitude. If all of the Reds had this attitude, we'd be in first place, which leads me to this...who in name of all that's holy could you get who would play hurt and still do so well? No one.

Forgetaboutit. Pencil him in for the next 10 years, make him untouchable and build around him. The alternative is not pretty.
:clap:

CincyRedsFan30
01-29-2006, 11:22 PM
Marc's Blog:

Haven't been able to get in touch with Adam, so all I've got to go on directly is what the Reds are saying. With those limitations in mind, here's how Reds trainer Mark Mann laid it out:

The medical staff knew Dunn "probably" had broken his hand at least once last season, but couldn't be sure because he never let them X-ray it. When Dunn went home at the end of the season, he saw a friend of his in Texas who is an orthopedist and asked the doc to take a look at his hand.

"He talked to him about it and the guy said look, at this point, you did this so long ago that the only thing that I would do if it was really bothering you that much is put you in a splint for a couple of weeks," said Mann. "Adam basically said look, I’m finished playing for the year, it’s going to get plenty of rest, I don’t need to do that."

Mann emphasized -- "That was back at the end of the season, that wasn’t last week," as opposed to how the timeline was laid out in the original report.

Doc Kremchek saw the article Saturday morning and called Mann, who has been in Sarasota for a week and a half. Mann was just as surprised as Kremchek and got in touch with Dunn on Saturday.

"I said ‘Adam, what’s the story? Is this thing still bothering you?’ He said, ‘Absolutely not.’"

Mann said he had already talked to Dunn about a week earlier, just checking in, and the new first baseman had told him everything was going fine with his offseason -- he was hitting and working out as normal. According to Mann, the type of injury Dunn probably had would have healed itself with the downtime during the offseason.

Bottom line, everyone with the Reds expects Dunn to be at full strength from the first day of spring training.

"We are in no way, shape or form worried about this at all," said Mann.

Nugget
01-29-2006, 11:53 PM
Hairline fractures especially in the hand are no big deal especially for outfielders. If Dunn were a catcher or at 1B when the injury occurred the some extra rest would be required. Often you don't feel anything and the only way you find out you have a hairline is if you have an X-ray. Not knowing the specifics but if its on the palm side then he won't have any issues and after about four weeks it will be completed healed.

KronoRed
01-30-2006, 05:36 AM
Mann emphasized -- "That was back at the end of the season, that wasn’t last week," as opposed to how the timeline was laid out in the original report.

Finally some facts.

REDREAD
01-30-2006, 09:38 AM
Delino DeShields will be a Red.

I remember that.


Ok.. (Along with McKeon being a GM candidate).. Isn't this clearly speculation? Someone told McKeon it was a done deal in all likelyhood, and it fell apart later.

Hal's job isn't that easy. I don't think he deliberately tries to decieve anyone. Naturally all baseball writers get bad information at times.

M2
01-30-2006, 09:56 AM
Ok.. (Along with McKeon being a GM candidate).. Isn't this clearly speculation? Someone told McKeon it was a done deal in all likelyhood, and it fell apart later.

Hal's job isn't that easy. I don't think he deliberately tries to decieve anyone. Naturally all baseball writers get bad information at times.

I'm more than a little familiar with Hal's job requirements and I've always found him to be extremely lazy on fact checks. It's one thing to be superficial (the curse of modern sportwriting), but the guy accepts way too much hearsay as fact.

Trade rumors are one thing, but I've seen reporters go entire decades without once making the sorts of factual errors that permeate Hal's work.

RFS62
01-30-2006, 10:13 AM
Dr. K on XM radio this morning, on Adam Dunn's hand:

"Totally blown up out of proportion. Nothing to it."

KittyDuran
01-30-2006, 10:20 AM
Pardon me, but this all smells like what went on with Junior's injuries. Read: smells BAD...:thumbdown

westofyou
01-30-2006, 10:22 AM
Pardon me, but this all smells like what went on with Junior's injuries. Read: smells BAD...:thumbdown
Don't worry Nugget has let us know that it's "no big deal." :evil:

Redsland
01-30-2006, 10:23 AM
I'm more than a little familiar with Hal's job requirements and I've always found him to be extremely lazy on fact checks.
Recent example:

He's been reporting for weeks that BobC. bought the team for $270 million. Hal has stated this at least three times in the past 10 days. Mark Katz even used that figure in an article he wrote for Hal, obviously having accepted the HoF'er's number as gospel.

Well, BoBC. didn't pay $270 million. He, and his ownership group, paid about 70-75% of $270 million, which is the total estimated value of the franchise, before debt.

I could see making that mistake once and then being called on it. I can't fathom how it continued to show up day after day. :bang:

gonelong
01-30-2006, 10:44 AM
I'm more than a little familiar with Hal's job requirements and I've always found him to be extremely lazy on fact checks. It's one thing to be superficial (the curse of modern sportwriting), but the guy accepts way too much hearsay as fact.

Trade rumors are one thing, but I've seen reporters go entire decades without once making the sorts of factual errors that permeate Hal's work.

Last season I wresteled with whether or not to start a thread titled ...

"Spot the error in Hal's column"

GL

KearnsyEars
01-30-2006, 11:41 AM
I'm sick of logging on here and seeing "Dunn's Hand, Dunn's Hand" yada yadda yadda. I really want to log on here and see: "Talk of Dunn's LTC" or "Dunn Signs Extension"

TeamBoone
01-30-2006, 01:40 PM
Mann emphasized -- "That was back at the end of the season, that wasn’t last week," as opposed to how the timeline was laid out in the original report.

Maybe so, but Narron let the cat out of the bag THIS WEEK and Adam's comment about the pain was made THIS WEEK!

During a recent Narron interview (I can't remember if it was the one on Sports of All Sorts last night or if it was earlier in the week), he was asked about Adam's hand. The first time it happened (May, I believe), he was stepped on (as we know)... Narron said it was pretty badly swollen; he said his hand was 3-4 inches thick at the time.

REDREAD
02-01-2006, 04:56 PM
Chances are that his agent has been so disappointed withthe LT offers that he hasn't even talked to Dunn about it, if my lawyer is negotiating for me I don't want to hear from him until an offer that resembles the one we discussed is made.
.

It all depends.. Dunn might be trying to be diplomatic. Perhaps he felt insulted by the Reds' offer, and the easiest thing to say is that he doesn't know what's going on. I'm sure he'd rather not talk salary to the writers.. it's a no win situation for him. He doesn't want to be painted as another greedy player trying to milk a few more million out of a small market team, or disloyal, etc.

I know everyone is different, but if I had a guy negotiating my salary for potentially the next 3-5 years, I'd want to get updates. I'd want to know what the club thought I was worth. Wouldn't you? It's natural curiousity.

REDREAD
02-01-2006, 05:05 PM
Dr. K on XM radio this morning, on Adam Dunn's hand:

"Totally blown up out of proportion. Nothing to it."


From the doctor who falsely proclaimed Jr healthy enough to play way too often.

Doc Hollywood has no crediblity with me anymore. He's a Reds' FO puppet.
He'd get on the radio and say Dunn is a girl if the Reds wanted him to.

creek14
02-01-2006, 07:17 PM
It all depends.. Dunn might be trying to be diplomatic. Perhaps he felt insulted by the Reds' offer, and the easiest thing to say is that he doesn't know what's going on. I'm sure he'd rather not talk salary to the writers.. it's a no win situation for him. He doesn't want to be painted as another greedy player trying to milk a few more million out of a small market team, or disloyal, etc.

I know everyone is different, but if I had a guy negotiating my salary for potentially the next 3-5 years, I'd want to get updates. I'd want to know what the club thought I was worth. Wouldn't you? It's natural curiousity.
Again. Adam said on the HSL in December that he doesn't want to know all the stuff that's going on until a deal is done.

So maybe we all want to know. But seems he doesn't.

KittyDuran
02-01-2006, 07:36 PM
From the doctor who falsely proclaimed Jr healthy enough to play way too often.

Doc Hollywood has no crediblity with me anymore. He's a Reds' FO puppet.
He'd get on the radio and say Dunn is a girl if the Reds wanted him to.Correct!!! You win the prize! :beerme: Dr. K was beaten down on this board concerning the injuries to Junior these past years - to many he's a hack, not good and not to be trusted :bash: - now he's the voice of truth? I guess it's all what you want to hear...:dunno:

RFS62
02-01-2006, 07:45 PM
Huh. I wonder why he gets such a steady stream of top athletes as clients.

creek14
02-01-2006, 08:01 PM
Huh. I wonder why he gets such a steady stream of top athletes as clients.
:laugh: No kidding.

As probably one of the few people on this board who has actually been treated by him, I would trust him for any orthopedic problem.

And I have an inherent distrust of Dr's.

Plus, according to M Mann (on with Andy the other night) it was a hairline fracture (he had talked to Adam that day). Heck I had a hairline fracture once and never even knew it until I had an xray for something else and they asked me when I broke my arm.

Jpup
02-09-2006, 01:54 AM
What? I'd love to see some examples. Writers have to rely on sources sometimes... esp. during the DOB 2-year reign. During the year writers have to do speculating and rely on "inside" sources. Because something does not happen in the end does not mean it was not being discussed. And most GMs will not admit to trying to deal a player when that deal fell through in the end (and that is understandable).

Hal must do something right and tell true stories... he is in the writer's wing in Cooperstown. Judge that as you will, but it is an honer that many dead baseball beat writers never got.

:wave:

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 09:40 AM
Huh. I wonder why he gets such a steady stream of top athletes as clients.I have no problem with the Dr. - he treated a co-worker and did a great job. But the fiasco concerning Junior's injuries (was he hurt?, how bad was the injury?, sprain, torn, etc.) left a bad taste in my mouth - and it's wasn't the Dr's fault, but he was the "talking head" so he took most of the heat.

[I need to bring up those threads...]

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 09:44 AM
:laugh: No kidding.

As probably one of the few people on this board who has actually been treated by him, I would trust him for any orthopedic problem.

And I have an inherent distrust of Dr's.

Plus, according to M Mann (on with Andy the other night) it was a hairline fracture (he had talked to Adam that day). Heck I had a hairline fracture once and never even knew it until I had an xray for something else and they asked me when I broke my arm.I know that Creek, he's a good doctor - otherwise he wouldn't have a business or a fantastic office less than a mile from my workplace. But he is being paid by the FO and Dunn is now the crown jewel that needs to be protected. I hope that it's only a hairline fracture and will not affect his performance.:pray: