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View Full Version : What should I read after Moneyball?



Shaknb8k
01-30-2006, 01:08 PM
I know im a few years behind, but im about to finish up Moneyball and I think the next book im going to read is License to Deal by Jerry Crasnick. What are some suggestions for a book after that. I would really like to look into some of the specifics about the Moneyball stats so what are some of the books out there on that? Or should I read Three Nights in August? Or what are some other good baseball books out there? Definatly would like to read a book with the Reds involved.

RedsManRick
01-30-2006, 01:13 PM
I just finished Three Nights in August a few weeks ago. It's interesting and a pretty quick read, but certainly one of the more frustrating books I've read lately. It only reinforced my belief that nobody overmanages more than Tony LaRussa.

The book 'Mind Game' from BP was fairly interseting too.

Cedric
01-30-2006, 01:24 PM
You have to read ball four. Different than what you want maybe though.

westofyou
01-30-2006, 01:37 PM
I know im a few years behind, but im about to finish up Moneyball and I think the next book im going to read is License to Deal by Jerry Crasnick. What are some suggestions for a book after that. I would really like to look into some of the specifics about the Moneyball stats so what are some of the books out there on that? Or should I read Three Nights in August? Or what are some other good baseball books out there? Definatly would like to read a book with the Reds involved.
Here's some you can't go wrong with.

Men at Work - George Will

The Numbers Game - Alan Schwartz

Lords of the Realm - John Heylar

Why Time begins on Opening Day - Thomas Boswell

nycredsfan
01-30-2006, 01:37 PM
Here are some upcoming books that I'm pretty excited about:

Baseball Between the Numbers by Baseball Prospectus
The Mind of Bill James by Scott Gray
Fantasyland by Sam Walker (Read an ARC of this and it was fantastic)

RFS62
01-30-2006, 01:41 PM
If you can find it, "Dollar Sign on the Muscle" by Kevin Kerrane is a great followup to "Moneyball"

gonelong
01-30-2006, 02:37 PM
If you can find it, "Dollar Sign on the Muscle" by Kevin Kerrane is a great followup to "Moneyball"

I can't seem to find that one. Even check the library to no avail. Once in awhile I check ebay to see if I can locate it there ... no luck.

Edit: Now I know why; $320? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080327789X/102-9142691-3724123?v=glance&n=283155

GL

BoydsOfSummer
01-30-2006, 02:43 PM
I was lucky enough to find Dollar Sign on the Muscle at my local library. I agree that it would be an excellent book to follow Moneyball. A recommended read at anytime I'd say.


How good is it? I found this copy on Amazon- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080327789X/102-0629087-3276141?v=glance&n=283155

westofyou
01-30-2006, 02:47 PM
I can't seem to find that one. Even check the library to no avail. Once in awhile I check ebay to see if I can locate it there ... no luck.

Edit: Now I know why; $320? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080327789X/102-9142691-3724123?v=glance&n=283155

GL
Inter-library loan is the way to go on hard to get items. I used it for some Abstracts, got them from St. Louis.

Ask your local if they partcipate in it, ours does and I can order all my books online and they'll call me when I can pick them up at the libray branch of my choice.

redssouth
01-30-2006, 03:23 PM
Being a Reds fan right now, I would suggest you read the bible... you are going to need some type of faith to get through this next season!!

RFS62
01-30-2006, 03:25 PM
I can't seem to find that one. Even check the library to no avail. Once in awhile I check ebay to see if I can locate it there ... no luck.

Edit: Now I know why; $320? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080327789X/102-9142691-3724123?v=glance&n=283155

GL


Kevin Kerrane has been on XM radio a couple of times. They talked like a reprint may be happening in the future, but nothing definite.

I got lucky and snagged mine online for $40 a couple of years ago, and I've passed it around to local friends. It's a classic.

Strikes Out Looking
01-30-2006, 03:28 PM
Two baseball books I'd read (and they really have nothing to do with Moneyball, but are great):

1. The Long Season by Jim Brosnan
2. Richard Ben Cramer's book on Joe Dimaggio.

Tony Cloninger
01-30-2006, 04:15 PM
The Peter Gammons book...called, i think... After the 6th game, details the downfall of BOS team due to FA and problems with ownership.

Details the game in general from pre-FA to effects during and after.

Ravenlord
01-30-2006, 04:28 PM
i have Dollar Sign on the Muscle; it was required for a class i took. good stuff, though i hate the writing style.

BoydsOfSummer
01-30-2006, 04:34 PM
Just finished "The Glory of Their Times" by Lawrence Ritter the other night. Another one I'd recommend highly, it's considered a classic and I concur.

Cyclone792
01-30-2006, 05:32 PM
I know im a few years behind, but im about to finish up Moneyball and I think the next book im going to read is License to Deal by Jerry Crasnick. What are some suggestions for a book after that. I would really like to look into some of the specifics about the Moneyball stats so what are some of the books out there on that? Or should I read Three Nights in August? Or what are some other good baseball books out there? Definatly would like to read a book with the Reds involved.

License to Deal is a solid read, and I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Others I'd recommend ...


The New Bill James Historical Abstract by Bill James - Basically a must for any baseball shelf.
The Numbers Game by Alan Schwarz - The beginning may be tough to wade through, but it really picks up steam and gives an excellent account on how far baseball statistics have come.
Reversing the Curse by Dan Shaughnessy - I picked this up on a whim in an airport for something to read on a flight, and it turned out to be worth it. My favorite aspect of the book is the background information on Theo Epstein and walking in his steps during the 2004 season.
Mind Game by the writers at Baseball Prospectus - Fair warning here as this book requires some familiarity with sabermetrics. The writing can sometimes be stuffy, and there's a constant array of statistical comparisons which require a bit more concentration than just casual or leisure reading. It's a pretty darn good educational book though as it takes you on the insides of sabermetrics and how the Red Sox used them to their advantage during the 2004 season.


I have several other recommendations, but they're moreso of the historical variety, including player biographies and whatnot, so I'm not sure how much interest you'd have in those. Cedric mentioned Ball Four and that's definitely worth checking out.

Ravenlord
01-30-2006, 05:40 PM
Baseball Uncensored by Johnathan Story

Rob Neyer's Big Book of Baseball Lineups

Maldonado
01-30-2006, 05:49 PM
I read a lot of baseball books, and other than "Moneyball", I find these books quite good:

1. "The Numbers Game: Baseball's LIfelong Fascination with Statistics"
by Alan Schwarz

2. "The Thinking Fan's Guide to Baseball" by Leonard Koppett

3. "The Physics of Baseball" by Robert K. Adair

Trust me - these are classics.

Heath
01-30-2006, 06:47 PM
I'm reading "Baseball America" by Donald Honig - a great book about how baseball players in the dead ball era up to the 50's.

I've also read a copy of "Our Game" by Charles Alexander. Mr, or should I say, Professor Alexander has written this book for the "History of Baseball" course at Ohio U. Good reading about the intertwining of the American Society & baseball. Great stuff.

Also - an easy read is Pennant Race by Jim Brosnan chronically charting a day-by-day account of the 1961 Reds NL pennant. Good stuff.

Don't forget any Reds History book written by Greg Rhodes. Also, Brian Mulligan's new book in the 1940 Reds is out - but I haven't located a copy in my library yet.

Doc. Scott
01-30-2006, 07:17 PM
Yeah, the Rhodes & Erardi book about the Big Red Machine is oft-overlooked. I like the way it goes from Bob Howsam's point of view and looks at the construction of the club, including the points before and after the 1975 and 1976 seasons.

Rex Argos
01-30-2006, 07:20 PM
Lords of the Realm is quite good. It gives you an appreciation for the genius of Marvin Miller. Dealing with ballplayers is like trying to herd cats, but he pulled it off. Doesn't paint a flattering picture of baseball owners (big surprise).

Shaknb8k
01-30-2006, 09:07 PM
Thanks for all the help. You all have given some good insight on some books but one more question. Should i get baseball prospectus or bill james prospect book? or both?

flyer85
01-30-2006, 09:34 PM
Curve Ball: Baseball, Statistics, and the Role of Chance in the Game

westofyou
01-30-2006, 09:35 PM
If you mean the Bill James Handbook then I'd get BP's book, the Handbook is 90% stats, the BP book is full of essays too.

cincinnati chili
01-30-2006, 09:38 PM
Thanks for all the help. You all have given some good insight on some books but one more question. Should i get baseball prospectus or bill james prospect book? or both?

I agree with west of you. Get the Baseball Prospectus book, due to the 35 essays or so, which are usually top notch. The stats (which are great) are a bonus.

I've read 80% of the books mentioned and I think "Dollar Sign on the Muscle" and "Lords of the Realm" should come next. Ball Four would come after that.

westofyou
01-30-2006, 09:40 PM
"Dollar Sign on the Muscle"

Do you have that?

If so let's work a loan out.

cincinnati chili
01-30-2006, 09:46 PM
Do you have that?

If so let's work a loan out.

(If you can wait), you can borrow it when you come to Boston. Just mail it back to me when you're done with it, if you don't finish it here.

It's a paperback with a gazillion paperclips in it, so it's kinda beat up. M2 had it for about a year, but he actually took better care of it than I did.

Superdude
01-30-2006, 09:49 PM
What's better, the Baseball Prospectus Annual or The Hardball Times Annual?

Another cool book coming out soon is called the fielding bible. You can find it on the hardball times website.

Team Clark
01-30-2006, 11:01 PM
Scout's Honor is by far the best baseball book I have ever read. It's the flip side to Moneyball.

Strikes Out Looking
01-31-2006, 09:17 AM
Aren't we a literate group?

When I was in grade school during the '70s (in Hamilton, where I grew up), my teacher told my mother that even though I was a huge reader I needed to widen my literary horizons because all I read was books about baseball.

From this thread, I don't think I was alone!

Heath
01-31-2006, 10:06 AM
I'm shocked RHM hasn't mentioned Funnyball.... :D

I read some other books besides baseball. I enjoy books about football too :p:

BelisleFan
01-31-2006, 12:40 PM
Scout's Honor by Bill Shanks is an excellent baseball book. I highly recommend it. It also has a lot of stories in there about the Reds.

nycredsfan
01-31-2006, 03:33 PM
There are a number of reasonably priced copies of Dollar Sign on the Muscle if you search at Bookfinder.com. I just got one for $15.

Chip R
01-31-2006, 03:39 PM
Scout's Honor by Bill Shanks is an excellent baseball book. I highly recommend it. It also has a lot of stories in there about the Reds.

Gee, I wonder why you'd say that? :p:

M2
01-31-2006, 04:37 PM
(If you can wait), you can borrow it when you come to Boston. Just mail it back to me when you're done with it, if you don't finish it here.

It's a paperback with a gazillion paperclips in it, so it's kinda beat up. M2 had it for about a year, but he actually took better care of it than I did.

I was afraid that if I sneezed on it, it would explode.

westofyou
01-31-2006, 04:53 PM
I was afraid that if I sneezed on it, it would explode.
RFS is going to loan his, I don't want to chance that one.

chicoruiz
01-31-2006, 04:55 PM
If my home were burning down, the first book I'd save would be my Bill James New Historical Abstract, although it's now held together by duct tape.

Others I haven't heard mentioned here:

Prophet of the Sandlots, by Mark Winegardner- It's about the life and career of scout Tony Lucadello, who signed more big leaguers than anyone (including two Hall of Famers), but it's also about a lot of deeper stuff. I can't express adequately how much I like this book.

A False Spring, by Pat Jordan- Jordan had a big-time fastball and a lot of emotional baggage; reading this book you watch him self-destruct before your eyes, then come to terms with his failure.

The Luckiest Man, By Jonathan Eig- A very good new biography of Lou Gehrig; even though you know how it's going to end, it still gets to you when it happens.

The Greatest Slump of All Time, by David Carkeet- It's fiction, and it might be hard to find, but I included it because the first three titles I mentioned are a wee bit depressing, and Carkeet's book is Just Plain Fun.

chicoruiz
01-31-2006, 05:04 PM
....And I forgot Veeck As In Wreck, and Lee Allen's The Hot Stove League, and anything by Roger Angell, and Durocher's Nice Guys Finish Last.

And you don't have to be a kid to enjoy Clair Bee's "Chip Hilton" series. In fact, reading them will make you a kid again...

vaticanplum
01-31-2006, 05:14 PM
and anything by Roger Angell, [/U].



I was waiting for someone to mention Game Time.

If you can get your hands on the Cincinnati Reds book by Lee Allen, it's a wonderful, wonderful read. Written in 1948, it has two great benefits to it: a) that's almost 60 years cut off of the baseball we know, so it's full of detail about many aspects of the Reds that have since slipped into oblivion in the shadow of the Big Red Machine and all of that, and b) it has that great, unembarrassed, old flowery style to it.

There are also similar books by Warren Brown on both the Cubs (which has been republished) and the White Sox. They're all full of totally random stories I assume these were part of a series, but I've never been able to find any other teams.

None of these particularly follow Moneyball in any sort of logical way, but they're great baseball books.

westofyou
01-31-2006, 05:32 PM
If you can get your hands on the Cincinnati Reds book by Lee Allen, it's a wonderful, wonderful read. Written in 1948, it has two great benefits to it: a) that's almost 60 years cut off of the baseball we know, so it's full of detail about many aspects of the Reds that have since slipped into oblivion in the shadow of the Big Red Machine and all of that, and b) it has that great, unembarrassed, old flowery style to it.

That's a gem, hard to find too.

Also by Allen, The history of the National League and the History of the American League and of course the Hot Stove League.

Also a good find if you come across are the other Putman Team and League Bios from the late 40's.

Strikes Out Looking
01-31-2006, 05:52 PM
If we are talking fiction, Shoeless Joe (the book they based on Field of Dreams).

RFS62
01-31-2006, 08:23 PM
And you don't have to be a kid to enjoy Clair Bee's "Chip Hilton" series. In fact, reading them will make you a kid again...



Man, I loved that series when I was a kid. Clair Bee, great West Virginian.

Invented the 1-3-1 in basketball too.