PDA

View Full Version : Interesting quote from Adam Dunn....



Astrobuddy
01-30-2006, 08:26 PM
At the Houston Annual Baseball Dinner:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Cincinnati needs to take notes from Houston," Dunn said. "Houston fans are among the top five fans in the game."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unassisted
01-30-2006, 08:30 PM
A little Texas puffery. I know it well.

Can't imagine it will play well back in Reds Country, though. It'll probably also be cited as evidence the next time the "Dunn Wants to go to Houston" rumors surface.

westofyou
01-30-2006, 08:31 PM
Bagwell, perhaps the greatest player the Astros have produced, is entering the final year of a contract that will pay him $17 million this season. But Bagwell's bum right shoulder has the Astros trying to recoup most of that money by filing an insurance claim they can cash in on if he can't play this season.

Bagwell insists he will report to spring training and try to play, which could keep the Astros from collecting on their $15.6 million policy on his contract. Things appear headed for an ugly end.

zombie-a-go-go
01-30-2006, 08:33 PM
At the Houston Annual Baseball Dinner:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Cincinnati needs to take notes from Houston," Dunn said. "Houston fans are among the top five fans in the game."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Houston has less than five fans?

That's gotta be worse than, like, the Royals even.

Astrobuddy
01-30-2006, 08:34 PM
Is Dunn trying to send a message and get the offer from the Reds up a little ??


West.. I dont understand your point. You see some connection in the 2 things?

RFS62
01-30-2006, 08:37 PM
Adam went to school in Texas, right?

westofyou
01-30-2006, 08:37 PM
What is my point?

I guess my point is that the cows are pissing in your water too.

zombie-a-go-go
01-30-2006, 08:38 PM
What is my point?

I guess my point is that the cows are pissing in your water too.

I hope he doesn't drink from the Kentucky side of the Ohio, then. ;)

Astrobuddy
01-30-2006, 08:43 PM
No Cows pissing in my water. Bagwell is done.

RFS, Dunn lives here.

RFS62
01-30-2006, 08:46 PM
RFS, Dunn lives here.


No way!!!

MattyHo4Life
01-30-2006, 08:57 PM
At the Houston Annual Baseball Dinner:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Cincinnati needs to take notes from Houston," Dunn said. "Houston fans are among the top five fans in the game."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

He was in Houston... what else is he going to say. There is nothing wrong with Cincinnati baseball fans. For years, Reds fans hav had to put up with tight fisted owners, and the "small market" excuses. Despite all of that, baseball is still huge in Cincinnati, and the fans are some of the best in all of baseball.

pedro
01-30-2006, 09:00 PM
I'll be in Houston in February. Rumors are that I'll be signing with the Astros too.

Astrobuddy
01-30-2006, 09:06 PM
Matty.. I am merely the posting the quote. You can water it down if you like. I didnt say it, Adam Dunn did. Just because he is in Houston doesnt mean he should slam Cinci. I could see him applauding Houston, but the part about Cinci needing to pay attention to Houston is quite a bit more than just saying something nice about Houston.


Pedro.. one is a lie, the other isnt. if you dont know the difference I cant help you.

KoryMac5
01-30-2006, 09:28 PM
I think he was surprised at the size of the turnout in Houston and wants to see more Reds fans in the seats of our new ballpark.

Caveat Emperor
01-30-2006, 09:28 PM
Is Dunn trying to send a message and get the offer from the Reds up a little ??

If he wanted to get his offer up, all he'd have to do is tell them to turn his baseball card over and read the back.

Seriously, though, what was he going to do? Pull an old-school pro-wrestling heel turn mid-sentence?

"Every time I come back to Houston, every time I come back and see the people, every time I come back and see how this community opens it's arms and supports their team - every time I see this, it makes me say to myself...Oh thank god I moved to Cincinnati away from you yahoos!"

Booing ensued, Danny Graves cried.

Unassisted
01-30-2006, 09:37 PM
On a more positive note, Adam received the Houston-Area POY award at the dinner.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.mpl/sports/3619155

For a little context, here is the paragraph which preceded the quote in astrobuddy's original post.

"The awards dinner drew more than 1,400, the largest crowd ever at a Houston baseball dinner. The attendance, and the general support of Astros fans at Minute Maid Park wasn't lost on Dunn."

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060128&content_id=1302859&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Falls City Beer
01-30-2006, 09:37 PM
I really don't care what Dunn says. Honestly. He's not my friend.

As long as he hits home runs for the Reds and gets on base at a .400 clip, he can run his mouth all he wants.

Cyclone792
01-30-2006, 10:06 PM
Bagwell is done.

What a way for a franchise - and apparently at least one hometown Astros fan - to treat only the greatest first baseman in National League history and arguably that franchise's greatest player in its history.

pedro
01-30-2006, 10:18 PM
Pedro.. one is a lie, the other isnt. if you dont know the difference I cant help you.

I'll take the Red pill thanks. :)

RFS62
01-30-2006, 10:20 PM
I sure do enjoy our little visits from Astrobuddy.

Heath
01-30-2006, 10:45 PM
Who's astrobuddy and why does he post here?

Isn't he better suited for www.astroszone.com??

I'm confused. :dunno:

I'm waiting for a thread from astrobuddy entitled - Your mama.....

Go back home to New Caney or El Paso or Abilene or where ever you live.

And leave your rep points at the door.

Redsland
01-30-2006, 11:00 PM
I'm waiting for a thread from astrobuddy entitled - Your mama.....
Your momma's so fat she sets off car alarms when she runs. :)

RFS62
01-30-2006, 11:01 PM
Your momma's so fat she sets off car alarms when she runs. :)


Your mama's so fat she uses room deodorent

Astrobuddy
01-30-2006, 11:03 PM
I post a quote from a Reds player and I am asked to leave because you dont like it?


Funny stuff....


If you dont want a public forum, make it private.

RFS62
01-30-2006, 11:05 PM
I post a quote from a Reds player and I am asked to leave because you dont like it?


Funny stuff....


If you dont want a public forum, make it private.



Don't flatter yourself.

We didn't ask you to leave. We just mocked you, which seemed fair, since you came here looking for trouble.

Astrobuddy
01-30-2006, 11:08 PM
Mock? No, not really. If you are going to mock anyone it should be Adam Dunn, he said it, not me. I wasnt looking for trouble. I knew it would stir up chat, but trouble isnt what I was looking for.

Re-read Heath's post. I am pretty sure he asked me to leave.

RFS62
01-30-2006, 11:14 PM
Mock? No, not really.


Oh, but yes, little Astrobuddy. If there's one thing we know here, it's mocking. You were mocked. Odds are you'll be mocked again. Although from the look of things, you probably won't even realize it.




If you are going to mock anyone it should be Adam Dunn, he said it, not me.




Your man love for Adam is very noble. You cowboys are in the news a lot for that lately.

You'll just have to wait, though. He's ours, dammit. All ours.





I wasnt looking for trouble. I knew it would stir up chat, but trouble isnt what I was looking for.



Of course not. You were just being sociable.

You're making a lot of friends here, little Astrobuddy. I wish we knew how to quit you.

Astrobuddy
01-30-2006, 11:20 PM
Quit me >>???


Cowboys ? You still think all we have down here is Oil Wells and Horses?

How sad....


At least us ignorant cowboys dont leave dead relatives in a chair FOR YEARS watching TV.


By the way... we can wait on Adam Dunn. It is easier to wait when you have a winning franchise.

macro
01-30-2006, 11:20 PM
"Cincinnati needs to take notes from Houston," Dunn said. "Houston fans are among the top five fans in the game."

Back to the quote in question...

Perhaps the fact that Houston is the fourth-largest city in the United States has something to do with how many people show up at games? Or maybe the fact that they've had exactly one losing season since 1991 might have been a factor? These "top five fans in the game" showed up at the Astrodome on an average of about 14,000 - 15,000 per game in the early 90s when their team stunk. They're not that different than any other fans, and Cincinnati needn't take any "notes" from them.

TeamBoone
01-30-2006, 11:26 PM
I posted this on another thread but it didn't generate any comments. So, I'm still curious as to why Houston would present a Reds' player its Player of the Year award.

I love Adam, but I don't think he should have said that in a public place, even if he feels that way. I can't imagine why he would feel that way about Cincinnati fans when the majority clearly supports him and the team... even though it's doing so poorly.

My next question... why doesn't Cincinnati have a Player of the Year Award dinner? And if they did, I would hope they wouldn't give it to a non Red, even if he lived in Cincinnati.

RFS62
01-30-2006, 11:26 PM
Quit me >>???


Cowboys ? You still think all we have down here is Oil Wells and Horses?

How sad....



.

Astrobuddy
01-30-2006, 11:29 PM
Boone... the award goes to any player in MLB thats from the Houston Area. Plus, you dont think there was an underlying meaning?

TeamBoone
01-30-2006, 11:37 PM
Boone... the award goes to any player in MLB thats from the Houston Area. Plus, you dont think there was an underlying meaning?

An underlying meaning? No, not according to what you just said. He's from the Houston area and was clearly the best player last year, broken hand and all.

And if there was an underlying meaning, then shame on the person(s) who chose him, because they would have been shunning the player who really should have won the award.

BTW, my screen name is TeamBoone, not Boone. Thank you.

vaticanplum
01-30-2006, 11:59 PM
Astrobuddy, it's great that you love Adam Dunn. I don't think you can possibly love him as much as we do, particularly since besides being a wonderful baseball player and a seemingly great guy, he's also, you know, part of the team we love too, but that's beside the point.

I just don't understand why you continue to turn up here to make the same point over and over and over. You rarely contribute to other baseball discussions. You don't really talk about Adam Dunn's current performance. You just seem to want to say repeatedly that he will someday play for Houston. If this happens, you are correct -- we will be sad, and you will gloat. but as of now it hasn't happened and it seems kind of a lame thing to beat into the ground. Entire relationships have been destroyed by hypotheticals, Astrobuddy. Adam Dunn is from Texas and may someday play there. Good for him and good for you. But if you stand with one foot in the past and one foot in the future, you will pee on the present. And it is my impression that the present is more or less what we're here to discuss.

Scrap Irony
01-31-2006, 12:21 AM
The word mock needs to be used more in everyday posting.

blumj
01-31-2006, 01:02 AM
Who's astrobuddy and why does he post here?

Apparently, he's an Astros fan who's a little jealous of Adam Dunn because his team doesn't know how to score runs. You would think he'd be too embarrassed to come here and throw around phrases like "winning franchise" when the team he roots for has made it to exactly one World Series, and didn't even bother to show up for it when they did. All the old timers loved it, though, because it brought back all their memories from the dead ball era.

Maldonado
01-31-2006, 02:20 AM
"Cincinnati needs to take notes from Houston," Dunn said. "Houston fans are among the top five fans in the game."

Sports figures are a lot like politicians sometimes, in that they're public figures and therefore often must schmooze people. I really doubt this means anything other than Dunn might have had a few drinks, and he was feeling warm and fuzzy being with his fellow Texans.

Ron Madden
01-31-2006, 04:39 AM
Have I somehow forgotten or over looked anything
that would define The Houston Astros as a franchise to be worshiped? Or to be seen as a model to copy from?

I doubt it.

Stewie
01-31-2006, 06:05 AM
Back to the quote in question...

Perhaps the fact that Houston is the fourth-largest city in the United States has something to do with how many people show up at games? Or maybe the fact that they've had exactly one losing season since 1991 might have been a factor? These "top five fans in the game" showed up at the Astrodome on an average of about 14,000 - 15,000 per game in the early 90s when their team stunk. They're not that different than any other fans, and Cincinnati needn't take any "notes" from them.

I agree, I don't see what is so fantastically special about Houston fans. Cincinnati is a fine baseball town (one of the best in the league), and based on the context of the comments, I really don't see too much to get worried about. Of course, I'm used to seeing much worse comments about Phillies fans, so I might be a tad de-sensitized. But to me, it just doesn't sound like Dunn bashing Cincinnati, but merely praise to his hometown, who just so happened to be presenting him with an award.

dman
01-31-2006, 06:17 AM
Astrobuddy, even if Dunn ends up in Houston, the Astro's will still be October chokers, just like Atlanta. That's if they make it that far. These last two seasons of the 'Stros making it to the post season have been merely a fluke in my opinion.

KronoRed
01-31-2006, 07:02 AM
The word mock needs to be used more in everyday posting.
I mock this entire thread.:devil:

creek14
01-31-2006, 07:03 AM
Who's astrobuddy and why does he post here?
He's some Astro's buddy and he posts here to yank your chain.

StillFunkyB
01-31-2006, 07:45 AM
Bagwell needs to hang em up.

SirFelixCat
01-31-2006, 07:58 AM
how is this not locked/deleted yet???

MattyHo4Life
01-31-2006, 08:10 AM
Bagwell needs to hang em up.

He will after he fulfills his contract or after the Astros force him out.

KittyDuran
01-31-2006, 08:36 AM
how is this not locked/deleted yet???My thoughts exactly... attacks are attacks [no matter who it's against] even if it's just to mock...:thumbdown

RFS62
01-31-2006, 08:46 AM
Maybe we should send the little fellow a fruit basket or something.

I hope we didn't hurt his inner child.

Really, he comes here for one reason. We've got plenty of fans from other teams who are welcome and valued contributors. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry. If you ask me, he had it coming and a lot worse.

Heath
01-31-2006, 09:00 AM
I mock this entire thread.:devil:

I wear mock turtlenecks. Very comfortable.

:D

Heath
01-31-2006, 09:00 AM
For every 4 MattyMo's there's an Astrobuddy to ruin it all for us.

Unassisted
01-31-2006, 09:01 AM
My thoughts exactly... attacks are attacks [no matter who it's against] even if it's just to mock...:thumbdownI seem to get publicly called out when I do things like that. I guess I know now who gets to set the tone around here.

Astrobuddy
01-31-2006, 09:02 AM
I actually feel sorry for all of you.

Heath
01-31-2006, 09:09 AM
I actually feel sorry for all of you.
Me too. Our baseball team has sucked the last 4 years. I mean, I do feel blessed, its not like the Reds have won one NL pennant in 43 years.

Ok, I stoked the fire too much...

Crosley68
01-31-2006, 09:24 AM
Woah!! Usually people are a little more tolerant and passive toward posts they dont like. Somehow this went way over the edge, and by some usually calm Redszoners.........I think a step back is in order guys.

remdog
01-31-2006, 09:31 AM
.....the greatest first baseman in National League history......

Huh!?! Are you really saying that about Jeff Bagwell? I've loved the Reds HOF Polls but I think there would be some serious discent if he were on that ballot.

Rem

remdog
01-31-2006, 09:38 AM
So, to get this thread somewhat back on track, if you were comparing Bagwell and Dunn at this stage in Adam's career, who would you take long-term?

Rem

westofyou
01-31-2006, 10:19 AM
So, to get this thread somewhat back on track, if you were comparing Bagwell and Dunn at this stage in Adam's career, who would you take long-term?


Here's Bagewell under the the age of 25, then Dunn.
Rem


TOTALS 1675 242 494 97 14 53 3.16 266 221 286 30 14 .295 .464 .380 .845
LG AVERAGE 1623 205 426 76 12 38 2.32 192 156 264 41 19 .262 .393 .328 .721
POS AVERAGE 1660 216 455 87 9 49 2.98 241 180 268 22 12 .274 .427 .345 .771


TOTALS 2271 420 564 127 6 158 6.96 374 462 733 41 16 .248 .518 .383 .901
LG AVERAGE 2267 313 608 123 13 73 3.23 298 231 418 38 17 .268 .431 .340 .771
POS AVERAGE 2295 347 627 132 13 97 4.23 351 292 465 36 16 .273 .469 .359 .828

Chip R
01-31-2006, 10:23 AM
how is this not locked/deleted yet???

Are you mocking us? :p:

westofyou
01-31-2006, 10:24 AM
I actually feel sorry for all of you.

Now, Astrobuddy is the one that pokes this crew.
He doesn't like it when we drink and fight and smoke and give him his due
But when we win our game each day,
Then what the hell can A-Buddy say?
It makes a fellow proud to be an Reds Fan!

registerthis
01-31-2006, 10:25 AM
Astrobuddy's man-love for Dunn reminds me of the Gallagher days of yesteryear.

How long until we start getting the "How did DONE do today???" posts? Or, how about "DONE is not your savior!"

deltachi8
01-31-2006, 10:40 AM
Personally, I dont see why everyone jumped on him (astrobuddy).

Maybee thats just me.

Heath
01-31-2006, 10:48 AM
Now, Astrobuddy is the one that pokes this crew.
He doesn't like it when we drink and fight and smoke and give him his due
But when we win our game each day,
Then what the hell can A-Buddy say?
It makes a fellow proud to be an Reds Fan!

Nice rip off - glad you read the "Astros portion" of Ball Four :thumbup:

westofyou
01-31-2006, 10:51 AM
Personally, I dont see why everyone jumped on him (astrobuddy).

Maybee thats just me.

When 65% of the threads you post in involve a constant assertion that Gus and Call are on their way to take Dunn back to Lonesome Dove you're probably going to have to deal with some stuff.

But once you start with the Kentucky jokes and now even a inane reference to a dead person in some nuts house in Norwood as a summation of quality of the mental state of the residents of the board, well then he deserves all the dung flung at him.

Maybe that's just me?

westofyou
01-31-2006, 10:52 AM
Nice rip off - glad you read the "Astros portion" of Ball Four :thumbup:
Summer between 7th and 8th grade, it changed my life.

ochre
01-31-2006, 10:54 AM
Personally, I dont see why everyone jumped on him (astrobuddy).

Maybee thats just me.
he's established a reputation?

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=872531&highlight=dunn#post872531
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=866459&postcount=12
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=865814&postcount=36
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=862374&postcount=62
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=858988&postcount=23
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=832650&postcount=12
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=793823&postcount=41
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=84367&postcount=31

That's just a sampling of the 84 instances of him talking about Dunn. Mostly unsubtantiated drivel. I warned him to stop trolling about Dunn in one of those threads and I intend to keep warning him.

You have your Stewie's, MattyMo's, and tts1stros and then you have your astrobuddys.

KittyDuran
01-31-2006, 10:57 AM
Maybe we should send the little fellow a fruit basket or something.

I hope we didn't hurt his inner child.

Really, he comes here for one reason. We've got plenty of fans from other teams who are welcome and valued contributors. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry. If you ask me, he had it coming and a lot worse.
OK - so you're saying that he/she is a troll... DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!:p: :rolleyes:

Chip R
01-31-2006, 11:00 AM
OK - so you're saying that he/she is a troll... DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!:p: :rolleyes:

Always good advice. :thumbup:

deltachi8
01-31-2006, 11:33 AM
Honestly, I was only refering to this thread. I havent read anything else he has written.

Maybee I didnt care too, maybee Im not bright enough. Who knows, who cares I supppose.

But that is Just me.

minus5
01-31-2006, 11:49 AM
Strong words from the man hailing from the state that gave us Ed Gein :rolleyes:


Quit me >>???


Cowboys ? You still think all we have down here is Oil Wells and Horses?

How sad....


At least us ignorant cowboys dont leave dead relatives in a chair FOR YEARS watching TV.


By the way... we can wait on Adam Dunn. It is easier to wait when you have a winning franchise.

Falls City Beer
01-31-2006, 12:08 PM
Strong words from the man hailing from the state that gave us Ed Gein :rolleyes:

Actually, I believe Gein was a Wisconsinner.

OldXOhio
01-31-2006, 12:40 PM
Back to the quote in question...

Perhaps the fact that Houston is the fourth-largest city in the United States has something to do with how many people show up at games?

I don't have a real problem with Dunn's statement, albeit a little misdirected. However, I'm really perplexed by this smaller city excuse that gets used some on here to explain the Reds plight at the ticket office. I'm sure not expecting to see 35K a night in attendance like they get at Busch, but whoever said you needed a packed house every night to create an atmosphere that becomes advantagous to the home team? The games I go to anymore at the GAB are like Sunday mass. I understand the results on the field have killed a large part of fan interaction and enthusiasm, but still, I would think a "baseball town" could do better.

Tony Cloninger
01-31-2006, 01:09 PM
Astrobuddy...if you are out there...... Please, what is with the sensitivity?

I went to the astro board in 1999...... i even signed in under monikers of Skip Jutze.... Jim York....the most obscure Astro's you could think of. Just to show that i was not some crazy reds fan going....rezs roLe!!

The myopia, if i may borrow a Rome phrase, was intense and beyond even Oakland Raider/Pitt Steelers levels. Did these guys just not have a mind or vocabulary of their own.

They lift everything off Rome......and gave zilch respect to the reds.
They acted as if the Central belonged to them. I mean, they won the division in 1997 and 1998, and they thought they owned it. They acted as if the Reds had not won anything since the 70's.

I could barely get a good conversation going on about each other's teams.
I did not "smack talk" or make stupid comments.
No dice. No bother even trying to be civil from them.

The photos of the main guys.....on that board? They looked like frat boys...backward hats wearing, Limp Bizkit wanna-bees, with the barbed wire tatoos to boot. They all wanted to act like tough guys, and some women on that board scared me a little. ;)

The "should Tony Perez be in the HOF" was also classic........
Yes...i know Tony was boderline, but they acted as if Bagwell played in the dea ball era, as a way to denegrate Tony and upgrade Jeff.

CrackerJack
01-31-2006, 01:25 PM
The photos of the main guys.....on that board? They looked like frat boys...backward hats wearing, Limp Bizkit wanna-bees, with the barbed wire tatoos to boot. They all wanted to act like tough guys, and some women on that board scared me a little. ;)

That sounds like the Gold's Gym I go to here in Cincy.

minus5
01-31-2006, 01:33 PM
THAT"S WHO I MEANT!! Thanks, FCB! :beerme:


Actually, I believe Gein was a Wisconsinner.

macro
01-31-2006, 01:36 PM
I don't have a real problem with Dunn's statement, albeit a little misdirected. However, I'm really perplexed by this smaller city excuse that gets used some on here to explain the Reds plight at the ticket office. I'm sure not expecting to see 35K a night in attendance like they get at Busch, but whoever said you needed a packed house every night to create an atmosphere that becomes advantagous to the home team? The games I go to anymore at the GAB are like Sunday mass. I understand the results on the field have killed a large part of fan interaction and enthusiasm, but still, I would think a "baseball town" could do better.

When the Reds are once again a contender and people have time to become accustomed to that, you will see a different atomosphere in the stands at GAB, guaranteed. It's just like most other baseball towns: get people used to winning and they turn out and show enthusiasm; get them used to losing and they don't turn out, and the ones who do don't get nearly as excited about it. Not too many people are going to go crazy over the results of a game that will make the difference between their team going 70-92 instead of 69-93.

When I used the phrase "become accustomed to", I was referring to the fact that the Reds, unlike Houston, must draw from the tri-state region to be among the leaders in attendance. Many of those people come from two or three hours away or more, so they can't just jump up from the dinner table and decide on a whim to run down to the ballpark. It takes planning, hotel reservations, etc. Many people aren't going to plan their weekends around a trip to Cincinnati until they've first become accustomed to the Reds being a winner. The results on the field won't yield results in the stands immediately, either in numbers or enthusiasm.

The smaller city excuse is, in fact, valid. A city of 2 million, like Houston, won't have as difficult a time drawing fans as a city of 300,000, like Cincinnati.

Cyclone792
01-31-2006, 01:46 PM
Huh!?! Are you really saying that about Jeff Bagwell? I've loved the Reds HOF Polls but I think there would be some serious discent if he were on that ballot.

Rem



NL First Basemen Win Shares

Player Career WS/162 Five Peak
Jeff Bagwell 387 29.16 170
Johnny Mize* 413 29.06 164
Willie McCovey 408 25.54 169
Dick Allen 342 31.68 181
Will Clark 331 27.05 168
Tony Perez 349 20.36 146

*I gave Mize war credit for WWII


Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Hank Greenberg, Frank Thomas, Eddie Murray, Mark McGwire and Harmon Killebrew are all AL first sackers. In all seriousness, I'd take Bagwell over everyone except for Gehrig and Foxx, with my top five being: Gehrig, Foxx, Bagwell, Mize, Greenberg.

lollipopcurve
01-31-2006, 01:46 PM
I actually feel sorry for all of you.

Why? Many of us have seen the Reds win 3 World Series titles. When the season ends otherwise, we can deal.

Sometime in the distant future, maybe you'll be able to relate.

MattyHo4Life
01-31-2006, 02:47 PM
Astrobuddy...if you are out there...... Please, what is with the sensitivity?

I went to the astro board in 1999...... i even signed in under monikers of Skip Jutze.... Jim York....the most obscure Astro's you could think of. Just to show that i was not some crazy reds fan going....rezs roLe!!

The myopia, if i may borrow a Rome phrase, was intense and beyond even Oakland Raider/Pitt Steelers levels. Did these guys just not have a mind or vocabulary of their own.

They lift everything off Rome......and gave zilch respect to the reds.
They acted as if the Central belonged to them. I mean, they won the division in 1997 and 1998, and they thought they owned it. They acted as if the Reds had not won anything since the 70's.

I could barely get a good conversation going on about each other's teams.
I did not "smack talk" or make stupid comments.
No dice. No bother even trying to be civil from them.

The photos of the main guys.....on that board? They looked like frat boys...backward hats wearing, Limp Bizkit wanna-bees, with the barbed wire tatoos to boot. They all wanted to act like tough guys, and some women on that board scared me a little. ;)

The "should Tony Perez be in the HOF" was also classic........
Yes...i know Tony was boderline, but they acted as if Bagwell played in the dea ball era, as a way to denegrate Tony and upgrade Jeff.

I used to post on that board, and TJ's Windy City Cubs board a lot. There is a reason I no longer post there, but stuck with the Zone. lol

OldXOhio
01-31-2006, 03:07 PM
Many people aren't going to plan their weekends around a trip to Cincinnati until they've first become accustomed to the Reds being a winner. The results on the field won't yield results in the stands immediately, either in numbers or enthusiasm.



Why? Have six bad years flat out killed this storied franchise? Must the Reds win for succeessive years before the fans are ever heard from at the park again?

There's a term for the type of fan that represents....I'll give you a hint, it ends in "bandwagon". I guess I've always believed our faithful have been largely above such a thing.

westofyou
01-31-2006, 03:09 PM
Why? Have six bad years flat out killed this storied franchise? Must the Reds win for succeessive years before the fans are ever heard from at the park again?

There's a term for the type of fan that represents....I'll give you a hint, it ends in "bandwagon". I guess I've always believed our faithful have been largely above such a thing.
Been that way forever in Cincinnati.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36060

minus5
01-31-2006, 03:13 PM
I don't know that it is as much "bandwagonning" fans (though there is plenty of that) as it has been the apathy of the ownership and management over the past few years.


Why? Have six bad years flat out killed this storied franchise? Must the Reds win for succeessive years before the fans are ever heard from at the park again?

There's a term for the type of fan that represents....I'll give you a hint, it ends in "bandwagon". I guess I've always believed our faithful have been largely above such a thing.

RedsManRick
01-31-2006, 03:33 PM
I'm guessing some people have never been a concert. Bono told me that Minneapolis and Milwuake were both 2 of his favorite cities in the world. I could be wrong, but I'm guessnig he a few hundred favorite cities. Dunn likes where he grew up and made comments to make his audience happy. This should not come as a surprise.

Of course, I personally think Dunn is just biding his time until FA and has absolutely no interest in staying in Cincy --- but that's just me.

gonelong
01-31-2006, 03:39 PM
Why? Have six bad years flat out killed this storied franchise? Must the Reds win for succeessive years before the fans are ever heard from at the park again?

There's a term for the type of fan that represents....I'll give you a hint, it ends in "bandwagon". I guess I've always believed our faithful have been largely above such a thing.

They have access to my heart and soul automatically, but not my wallet.

The Reds are a business. They operate as a business. They need to EARN my entertainment dollar, I'll not just hand it over to them. I'll watch on TV, listen on the radio, and read about them ... however, they aren't directly getting my hard EARNED cash until they put a quality product on the field instead of excuses, has-beens, and never-will-bes.

I demand the same from all businesses who want to sell me something.

I'm of the opinion that those that will put up with a run of incompetence this bad are part of the problem. If you continue to go the park, what incentive is there to put a better product on the field? The only vote that the fan has is with his wallet, and I vote my conscious with mine.

GL

OldXOhio
01-31-2006, 03:44 PM
The Reds are a business. They operate as a business. They need to EARN my entertainment dollar. I'll watch on TV, listen on the radio, and read about them ... however, they aren't getting my hard EARNED cash until the put a quality product on the field instead of excuses, has-beens, and never-will-bes.

I demand the same from all businesses who want to sell me something.

They have access to my heart and soul automatically, but not my wallet.

GL

If, by the AS break, the Reds are still in contention, have they earned your entertainment dollar?

gonelong
01-31-2006, 03:51 PM
If by the AS break, the Reds are in contention, have they earned your entertainment dollar?

Sorry, I made a few changes while you were replying, its a bad habit I have to re-read what I have just posted and tweak it later.

To answer your question, no. They will EARN MY dollar when they have assembled a team that I FEEL is worth BOTH my TIME and MONEY to go see. That team may not even be a contender, it might feature a bunch of up-and-comers that I am interested in seeing from time to time.

If I feel that team has been built in the offseason or by spring training, I'll be seeing many more games right out of the chute. I won't wait until the AS break.

In the last 2 seasons, I have attended opening day only. Its the only game that I have felt was worth investing both my time and money to see in person. I didn't feel that the team being fielded had much of a chance at all of being in contention.

Right now, I'd say the 2006 version is more of the same. At this point, the only game I am planning on is opening day, and possibly some interleague games if I have a player or two I want to see.

They have some time to change my opinion.

GL

edit: I catch 8-12 Dragons games a year, so I get a pretty good baseball fix in that manner.

OldXOhio
01-31-2006, 04:09 PM
To answer your question, no. They will EARN MY dollar when they have assembled a team that I FEEL is worth BOTH my TIME and MONEY to go see. That team may not even be a contender, it might feature a bunch of up-and-comers that I am interested in seeing from time to time.



Pretty much sums it up for me as well GL, although I'm a little less discriminating than you. In the end, I simply don't understand the notion that years of success will be used as a barometer for the return of a large segment of the Reds fanbase.

Chip R
01-31-2006, 04:29 PM
I'll give the Astros credit. Over the last 10 years or so they have been a force to be reckoned with. They have drawn mighty well - most of the time even better than the Reds. But this is the same franchise that drew under a million fans in consecutive years back in the mid 70s and just barely got over the million mark the year after that. Meanwhile in Cincinnati, the Reds were drawing 2 million without breaking a sweat. The point being that if you have a good team you should draw well. If you don't you probably won't unless you are a new team, have a new stadium or are on the north side of Chicago. HOU fans aren't any better or any worse than Reds fans.

westofyou
01-31-2006, 04:29 PM
At least us ignorant cowboys dont leave dead relatives in a chair FOR YEARS watching TV.
Hey you there in the glass house.

Isn't Houston the town where that woman drove home with the man sticking out of her windshield?

OldXOhio
01-31-2006, 04:33 PM
I'll give the Astros credit. Over the last 10 years or so they have been a force to be reckoned with. They have drawn mighty well - most of the time even better than the Reds. But this is the same franchise that drew under a million fans in consecutive years back in the mid 70s and just barely got over the million mark the year after that. Meanwhile in Cincinnati, the Reds were drawing 2 million without breaking a sweat. The point being that if you have a good team you should draw well. If you don't you probably won't unless you are a new team, have a new stadium or are on the north side of Chicago. HOU fans aren't any better or any worse than Reds fans.

Could swear the 'stros were pegged for a Virginia resting place at one time due to lack of attendance, no?

pedro
01-31-2006, 04:43 PM
Quit me >>???


Cowboys ? You still think all we have down here is Oil Wells and Horses?

How sad....


At least us ignorant cowboys dont leave dead relatives in a chair FOR YEARS watching TV.


By the way... we can wait on Adam Dunn. It is easier to wait when you have a winning franchise.

Well at least you admitted you're ignorant. It's a start.

westofyou
01-31-2006, 04:47 PM
Could swear the 'stros were pegged for a Virginia resting place at one time due to lack of attendance, no?


Nah, they had a lag in the mid 70's but had 1.1 million in 77, I don't think DC was talked about again until the Giants pondered it, the Senators left in 71 and the market was not that alluring then.

Strikes Out Looking
01-31-2006, 05:13 PM
Sorry to disagree with WOY, but Bill Collins had a deal to buy them and move them to Northern Va. before the 'Stros current owner bought them in order to keep them in Houston. I believe it was in the Mid '90s.

Collins then tried to get the Expos to move to Northern Va. but MLB moved them to DC. Collins is still part of group trying to buy them.

KittyDuran
01-31-2006, 05:28 PM
Of course, I personally think Dunn is just biding his time until FA and has absolutely no interest in staying in Cincy --- but that's just me.My thought exactly... tho' I hope I'm wrong. :(

Caseyfan21
01-31-2006, 05:37 PM
My thought exactly... tho' I hope I'm wrong. :(

Count me as three on the thought Dunn will be outta here come FA time. I mentioned in another thread I thought Dunn should be traded and not Kearns for this exact reason. I think a lot of people are fooling themselves if they think that Dunn is waiting to resign long term. Dunn hasn't seemed happy the last couple years. I just don't see him staying here long term at all. The only way he would stay, I think, is if the Reds threw a very large wad of cash his way. The Reds can't afford to do that plain and simple.

westofyou
01-31-2006, 05:51 PM
Sorry to disagree with WOY,

No disagree away, I don't remember that deal, now I know.

But in the 70's the situation was different and that's what I thought was being referenced.

creek14
01-31-2006, 06:02 PM
I went to the astro board in 1999...... and some women on that board scared me a little. ;)
I bet the Women of RedsZone could take them. :duel:

MattyHo4Life
01-31-2006, 06:10 PM
I bet the Women of RedsZone could take them. :duel:

I bet they could Creek. :cool:

KronoRed
01-31-2006, 06:24 PM
If Dunn wanted out now he would go public with a trade demand, all the cool players do it ;)

TeamBoone
01-31-2006, 08:06 PM
The smaller city excuse is, in fact, valid. A city of 2 million, like Houston, won't have as difficult a time drawing fans as a city of 300,000, like Cincinnati.

There are 1.5 to 2 million people in the Cincinnati metro area (20 mile radius).

TeamBoone
01-31-2006, 08:10 PM
Why? Have six bad years flat out killed this storied franchise? Must the Reds win for succeessive years before the fans are ever heard from at the park again?

There's a term for the type of fan that represents....I'll give you a hint, it ends in "bandwagon". I guess I've always believed our faithful have been largely above such a thing.

You know, a whole lot of you talk out of both sides of your mouth.

For the past couple seasons, many on this board have stated that the only way to send a message to the FO is not to attend games. I'm sure a lot of people feel that way (I'm not one of them), even many who do not post on this board.

So, when it happens (attendance drop), instead of lauding same, you tend to condemn the fans for not showing up.

I don't get it.

MattyHo4Life
01-31-2006, 08:45 PM
The smaller city excuse is, in fact, valid. A city of 2 million, like Houston, won't have as difficult a time drawing fans as a city of 300,000, like Cincinnati.

St. Louis has about the same size of population as Cincinnati, and the Cardinals have a larger payroll than Houston does.

RFS62
01-31-2006, 08:47 PM
Going to be interesting to see how the Bagwell thing plays out.

Very bad mojo.

MattyHo4Life
01-31-2006, 08:54 PM
If I was an Astros fan, I would be very upset at the way my team is treating one of the best and most loyal players in the history of the franchise.

RFS62
01-31-2006, 08:58 PM
Yeah, he backloaded that contract to help the team.

Wonder if this will affect the way potential free agents look at the Astros?

That was a topic of conversation on XM this afternoon.

westofyou
01-31-2006, 09:00 PM
Wonder if this will affect the way potential free agents look at the Astros?

Did you go in the ocean after you saw Jaws?

RFS62
01-31-2006, 09:02 PM
Did you go in the ocean after you saw Jaws?


Not without my agent. Professional courtesy, you know.

Falls City Beer
01-31-2006, 09:02 PM
If I was an Astros fan, I would be very upset at the way my team is treating one of the best and most loyal players in the history of the franchise.

Here's a franchise in one of the biggest markets in all of sports, 40 plus years old, yet still they haven't won a ring.

From where I sit, Bagwell's bigger than the entire Astros franchise.

letsgojunior
01-31-2006, 09:17 PM
I bet the Women of RedsZone could take them. :duel:

:beerme:

Not that we would have any problem with them, but I think we might be able to use the assistance of RFS's blow-up doll.

westofyou
01-31-2006, 09:20 PM
Ever notice that the Houston franchises highest points have been brought by Vets?

Astros-Clemens
Oilers-Blanda
Aeros-Howe
Rockets-Malone (brought them to respectability, not the pinnacle)

macro
01-31-2006, 10:22 PM
There are 1.5 to 2 million people in the Cincinnati metro area (20 mile radius).

I agree, but I was comparing city to city. If we compare metro areas, then Houston's population is over 5 million -- still a significant advantage.


St. Louis has about the same size of population as Cincinnati, and the Cardinals have a larger payroll than Houston does.

Yes, but are they drawing all those fans from the city of St Louis, or relying on folks who travel in from the region? My point is that if you do things the right way, you'll get the regional draw. The Cardinals have been doing things the right way, so they defy the normal expectations of a city that size. Teams that rely on a regional draw have less margin of error than teams from really large cities, or at least that's what I've always believed.

pedro
01-31-2006, 10:59 PM
Ever notice that the Houston franchises highest points have been brought by Vets?

Astros-Clemens
Oilers-Blanda
Aeros-Howe
Rockets-Malone (brought them to respectability, not the pinnacle)

There was the dude named hakeem who played for the rockets. I believe they won a championship or two when michael was running from the mob and hiding out in birmingham alabama.

MattyHo4Life
01-31-2006, 11:08 PM
Yes, but are they drawing all those fans from the city of St Louis, or relying on folks who travel in from the region? My point is that if you do things the right way, you'll get the regional draw. The Cardinals have been doing things the right way, so they defy the normal expectations of a city that size. Teams that rely on a regional draw have less margin of error than teams from really large cities, or at least that's what I've always believed.

Honestly, I doubt most of the city residents even watch baseball. Most of the fans are likely from the region. As far as city sizes go, the two cities are very comparable. As far as metro area, they are probably very comparable as well. The Cardinals have one of the highest payrolls in baseball despite being in a city with the population of Cincinnati.

RFS62
01-31-2006, 11:10 PM
You think the new radio deal in St. Louis is going to affect their reach, Matty?

George Foster
01-31-2006, 11:36 PM
There are 1.5 to 2 million people in the Cincinnati metro area (20 mile radius).

The Reds are also one of only and handfull of "regional teams." The have large fan bases in Kentucky (me!), Indiana, and West Virgina. 700 wlw plays a big part of this. Our "budget" is the only thing small market about this franchise.

MattyHo4Life
02-01-2006, 04:12 AM
You think the new radio deal in St. Louis is going to affect their reach, Matty?

It probably will, but every Cardinal game will be televised this year, and I think the Cardinal television has a wide reach as well.

Ron Madden
02-01-2006, 05:06 AM
You know, a whole lot of you talk out of both sides of your mouth.

For the past couple seasons, many on this board have stated that the only way to send a message to the FO is not to attend games. I'm sure a lot of people feel that way (I'm not one of them), even many who do not post on this board.

So, when it happens (attendance drop), instead of lauding same, you tend to condemn the fans for not showing up.

I don't get it.

I don't understand it eighther.

I was born and raised a Reds Fan and Cincinnati Reds Baseball has always been a part of my life.

It's like Family.

I've seen bad times and good times.

Bad times are hard and seem to last forever.

Let's hope New Ownership and a New GM bring us in to better times.

OldXOhio
02-01-2006, 09:10 AM
You know, a whole lot of you talk out of both sides of your mouth.

For the past couple seasons, many on this board have stated that the only way to send a message to the FO is not to attend games. I'm sure a lot of people feel that way (I'm not one of them), even many who do not post on this board.

So, when it happens (attendance drop), instead of lauding same, you tend to condemn the fans for not showing up.

I don't get it.

When another fan tells me that it's not going to take immediate success, but rather repeated success for years on end before the fans will start coming back to the games, then I begin to find fault with said fans. Sorry if that doesn't jive with your way of thinking, but as Kramer would say, "that's kooky talk". Sounds more like a person wanting to make some sort of personal statement rather than a fan just hoping to see some good Reds baseball.

As for the double talking issue, I'm not sure who you're directing that towards, but I'll assume it's not me......unless of course you can show me where I've called for a front office boycott?

Chip R
02-01-2006, 09:20 AM
I bet the Women of RedsZone could take them. :duel:

I bet they could take most of the guys over there.

deltachi8
02-01-2006, 09:29 AM
I'm guessing some people have never been a concert. Bono told me that Minneapolis and Milwuake were both 2 of his favorite cities in the world. I could be wrong, but I'm guessnig he a few hundred favorite cities. Dunn likes where he grew up and made comments to make his audience happy. This should not come as a surprise.

Of course, I personally think Dunn is just biding his time until FA and has absolutely no interest in staying in Cincy --- but that's just me.

Eddie Money once told me and 1500 others in 1987 that he had "Two Tickets to Auburn, NY."

macro
02-01-2006, 11:07 AM
When another fan tells me that it's not going to take immediate success, but rather repeated success for years on end before the fans will start coming back to the games, then I begin to find fault with said fans. Sorry if that doesn't jive with your way of thinking, but as Kramer would say, "that's kooky talk". Sounds more like a person wanting to make some sort of personal statement rather than a fan just hoping to see some good Reds baseball.

As for the double talking issue, I'm not sure who you're directing that towards, but I'll assume it's not me......unless of course you can show me where I've called for a front office boycott?

I never said anything about "years on end", although I can understand why you may have interpreted my comments that way. What I said was...


When the Reds are once again a contender and people have time to become accustomed to that, you will see a different atomosphere in the stands at GAB, guaranteed. It's just like most other baseball towns: get people used to winning and they turn out and show enthusiasm; get them used to losing and they don't turn out, and the ones who do don't get nearly as excited about it. Not too many people are going to go crazy over the results of a game that will make the difference between their team going 70-92 instead of 69-93.

When I used the phrase "become accustomed to", I was referring to the fact that the Reds, unlike Houston, must draw from the tri-state region to be among the leaders in attendance. Many of those people come from two or three hours away or more, so they can't just jump up from the dinner table and decide on a whim to run down to the ballpark. It takes planning, hotel reservations, etc. Many people aren't going to plan their weekends around a trip to Cincinnati until they've first become accustomed to the Reds being a winner. The results on the field won't yield results in the stands immediately, either in numbers or enthusiasm.


I was just saying that just because the Reds are in first place in June, that doesn't mean that attendance is going to jump from 18K-20K per game to, say, 35K-40K per game overnight. They're going to have to sustain that success until late in the season, and the full fruits of that success may not be realized until the following season.

If you'll re-read the second paragraph, you won't be so likely "to find fault with said fans". My point from from the beginning was that fans that have to drive three or four hours one-way to attend a game are probably going to have to do a little planning beforehand. Find fault with the locals who are a twenty-minute drive away from the ballpark if you will, but please have a bit of understanding for fans who must travel 6-8 hours round-trip and set aside an entire weekend to go to a couple of games. Those people aren't going to make the effort until they're convinced that there's something special to be seen once they get there.

westofyou
02-01-2006, 11:14 AM
My point from from the beginning was that fans that have to drive three or four hours one-way to attend a game are probably going to have to do a little planning beforehand.

Those people aren't going to make the effort until they're convinced that there's something special to be seen once they get there.


Yep, also let's consider the ring that the Reds call Reds Country and the ring the Cardinals call Cardinal Country.

If you were to get in a car in either city and drive any direction how far before you hit another major city with a pro team or a major college program.

I think that the Cardinals have a more captive audience, less competition from other cities and sports.

Cincinnati might have a greater number of people to draw from with Columbus, Indy, Louisville, Lexington and all of eastern Ohio, Kentucky and West Virginia.

But they also have more pro teams in other sports, more MLB teams within their market reach and more major college sports to draw the consumer dollar away from the Reds, which means the Reds need to enrich their product and their marketing if they want to sit on the fence with the big cats and sing all night.

macro
02-01-2006, 11:15 AM
The Cardinals have one of the highest payrolls in baseball despite being in a city with the population of Cincinnati.

But my point pertained to the number of fannies in the seats, not the payroll.

I'll still assert that regional teams like the Reds and Cardinals will take longer to lure their fans back to the ballpark after an extended period of losing than teams that draw the majority of their fans from a metro area, for the reasons stated in the post right before this one. Can I prove it? No. It's just a theory, and it may be wrong.

MattyHo4Life
02-01-2006, 11:37 AM
But my point pertained to the number of fannies in the seats, not the payroll.


There is a correlation between the two.

Chip R
02-01-2006, 11:41 AM
But my point pertained to the number of fannies in the seats, not the payroll.

I'll still assert that regional teams like the Reds and Cardinals will take longer to lure their fans back to the ballpark after an extended period of losing than teams that draw the majority of their fans from a metro area, for the reasons stated in the post right before this one. Can I prove it? No. It's just a theory, and it may be wrong.

The Royals are a good example. During the 70s and 80s they were the poster child for a regional franchise. They drew from Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado and Arkansas. They drew really well too and they had good teams. Now their they stink and they don't draw as well.

MattyHo4Life
02-01-2006, 11:48 AM
The Royals are a good example. During the 70s and 80s they were the poster child for a regional franchise. They drew from Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado and Arkansas. They drew really well too and they had good teams. Now their they stink and they don't draw as well.

Right, but their fans will come back if they start fielding a good team again.

creek14
02-01-2006, 12:15 PM
About this whole boycotting thing.

I am less inclinded to spend my entertainment dollar on something when the people putting it out there don't care about the quality of their product. That goes for baseball, movies, amusement parks, whatever.

Every season we go to 20 or so games the first half of the season. Then as the Reds slide down the usual losing slope and the FO does nothing to fix the problems, I usually decide that if they don't care then I'm not giving them my money.

It would be the same if Kings Island never upgraded their park and they had the same rides as they did in the 70's. I wouldn't go, or I would go to Cedar Point.

I don't consider it boycotting, it's just not wanting to spend my money on crap.

macro
02-01-2006, 12:19 PM
There is a correlation between the two.


Right, but their fans will come back if they start fielding a good team again.

...and I'm not arguing against either of those points... :)

ochre
02-01-2006, 12:23 PM
I think macro is on the right track. The regional teams require that their fans travel some distance at a cost/inconvenience factor that has to be weighed against the quality of the product on the field. When the value of viewing a team drops below this factor, attendance will suffer. This does not necessarily mean that people care any less about their team, but that they are unwilling to sacrifice time/money to see them in person. An hour drive to see a 7:30 pm game is quite a sacrifice for a working person (assume weekday game). After all is said and done it will be well after midnight before they are home. When the team is good you'll have more people willing to make that sacrifice.

deltachi8
02-01-2006, 12:27 PM
Good Post Creek.

I have not made the trek to Cincinnati since 95. It's about a 7 hour or so drive and if I am going to invest in that kind of time and expense, I want the product to be one that has been invested in as well. I love baseball but have chosen the much shorter drives to Toronto, Pittsburgh, Cleveland and this year Detroit.

OldXOhio
02-01-2006, 01:06 PM
Find fault with the locals who are a twenty-minute drive away from the ballpark if you will, but please have a bit of understanding for fans who must travel 6-8 hours round-trip and set aside an entire weekend to go to a couple of games. Those people aren't going to make the effort until they're convinced that there's something special to be seen once they get there.

I'm simply offering a comment about the Reds fanbase as a whole. Of course there's consideration that needs to be paid to the out of towners (which I happen to be one of) that must make a lengthy trip to see a game. Then again, that's always been the case with a team that's a regional draw like the Reds.

Also, I don't necessarily disagree with your contention Macro that it will take time to draw fans back to the games....I just can't comprehend it. To each their own, but in my mind, even if the Reds are still losing, I like going to the games. On the other hand, if they're winning, I especially want to be there and I'm sure not going to care what's happened in recent year's past.

registerthis
02-01-2006, 01:27 PM
Yes, but are they drawing all those fans from the city of St Louis, or relying on folks who travel in from the region? My point is that if you do things the right way, you'll get the regional draw. The Cardinals have been doing things the right way, so they defy the normal expectations of a city that size. Teams that rely on a regional draw have less margin of error than teams from really large cities, or at least that's what I've always believed.

If anything, the Reds draw from a larger population than does St. Louis. Many Reds fans come from Dayton, Columbus, Indianapolis and Louisville--all good-sized cities, and all larger than anything near St. Louis.

St. Louis sports a higher payroll because of the ownership of the team, it has nothing to do with market size. As far as puitting more people in the seats--well, it's amazing what a winning team can do for your attendance.

TeamBoone
02-01-2006, 02:21 PM
When another fan tells me that it's not going to take immediate success, but rather repeated success for years on end before the fans will start coming back to the games, then I begin to find fault with said fans. Sorry if that doesn't jive with your way of thinking, but as Kramer would say, "that's kooky talk". Sounds more like a person wanting to make some sort of personal statement rather than a fan just hoping to see some good Reds baseball.

As for the double talking issue, I'm not sure who you're directing that towards, but I'll assume it's not me......unless of course you can show me where I've called for a front office boycott?

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. I couldn't, even if I wanted to as there are too many to name names (actually, I find it kind of interesting that you thought I was talking about you specifically). I was simply questioning a general observation based on several board conversations about this topic over the past few years.
It just seems contradictory to me.

And I resent the bolded statement. As I said, I am only looking for a fair explanation to the contradiction I'm seeing here as opposed to what has been posted often in the past.

As far as my personal feeling... I'm a Reds fan throughout the good and throughout the bad. I go to the park as often as I can (and/or as often as I can afford to).

OldXOhio
02-01-2006, 03:06 PM
I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. I couldn't, even if I wanted to as there are too many to name names (actually, I find it kind of interesting that you thought I was talking about you specifically).

You referenced my name and my words in making your point...how else am I to take it?


And I resent the bolded statement. As I said, I am only looking for a fair explanation to the contradiction I'm seeing here as opposed to what has been posted often in the past.

To borrow your words, I find it kind of interesting that you thought I was talking about you specifically.

vaticanplum
02-01-2006, 03:15 PM
I've never really thought so in-depth about this before...but why DOES a winning team draw more fans to the ballpark? I know that sounds like a very stupid question, but one of the biggest reasons baseball is different from other sports is because of the length of the season and the number of games played. A team with a .500 winning percentage is generally considered at least a decent team. But that team will still lose almost half their games. A team with a .667 winning percentage is an extraordinary, unheard-of entity in baseball, and they'll still lose a third.

In other words, a "bad" team may still win any given game one chooses to attend, and a "good" team could very easily lose. So if winning is really someone's concern, aren't their chances better in attending a baseball game than anything else? Going to an MLB game these days is not cheap, but it's certainly more manageable for a family than, say, a professional football or basketball game.

I understand a race for the playoffs garnering interest at the tail end of a season, but why does a team's win-loss record affect attendance so much during the regular season? (and I know that it does)

MattyHo4Life
02-01-2006, 03:19 PM
If anything, the Reds draw from a larger population than does St. Louis. Many Reds fans come from Dayton, Columbus, Indianapolis and Louisville--all good-sized cities, and all larger than anything near St. Louis.

St. Louis sports a higher payroll because of the ownership of the team, it has nothing to do with market size. As far as puitting more people in the seats--well, it's amazing what a winning team can do for your attendance.

Exactly, St. Louis has a large regional draw, but there are no big cities anywhere near St. Louis to draw from. St. Louis is views by many as a big market, but St. Louis is the same size as Cincinnati.

gm
02-01-2006, 04:07 PM
Rockets-Malone (brought them to respectability, not the pinnacle)

Moses was no vet, he was fresh out of high school with a couple of seasons in the ABA ('76 dispersal draft) when the Blazer's GM (Harry Glickman) made a handshake deal with Cleveland to deal MM for a 1st round draft choice. Later that night, MM went out and dropped 20+ in a pre-season game but Harry stuck to his word and the trade went through as agreed.

Bill Walton's quote at the time ("You didn't trade him away, you gave him away") proved to be prophetic

C-town turned around and dealt MM to Houston for a pair of 1st rounders. If there was a team that MM helped get over the top when he was a vet, it was Philly.

A lot of people remember Bowie instead of Jordan. But when it comes to "what could've been..." just imagine those late '70s-early '80s Blazer teams with Malone in the middle. Ouchie.

westofyou
02-01-2006, 04:12 PM
Moses was no vet,Yeah, he wasn't the obvious choice, but he had been in the ABA since 1974.

But until he showed the Rockets were more known for a punch and the gimpy knees of Elvin Hayes.


If there was a team that MM helped get over the top when he was a vet, it was Philly.Yep, he was the missing link.

gm
02-01-2006, 05:03 PM
But until he showed the Rockets were more known for a punch and the gimpy knees of Elvin Hayes.

And the guy who got punched (Rudy T.) came back to coach the team that won Houston's first championship. And if Portland had won the coin flip in '84 they would've drafted the star of that team (Olajuwon) And the guy who punched Tomjanovich (Kermit Washington) wound up in Portland as part of the Walton-to-Clippers FA compensation. Irony abounds.

TeamBoone
02-01-2006, 08:55 PM
You referenced my name and my words in making your point...how else am I to take it?

Point taken; I did use your post, but I meant it as an example of several. My bad and I'm sorry; you're not a mindreader.


To borrow your words, I find it kind of interesting that you thought I was talking about you specifically.

Because you were talking at me specifically in response to what you thought was a personal attack on you, which it wasn't. Again, I'm sorry.

But my question IN GENERAL is still a valid one.

SteelSD
02-02-2006, 12:15 AM
I've never really thought so in-depth about this before...but why DOES a winning team draw more fans to the ballpark? I know that sounds like a very stupid question, but one of the biggest reasons baseball is different from other sports is because of the length of the season and the number of games played. A team with a .500 winning percentage is generally considered at least a decent team. But that team will still lose almost half their games. A team with a .667 winning percentage is an extraordinary, unheard-of entity in baseball, and they'll still lose a third.

In other words, a "bad" team may still win any given game one chooses to attend, and a "good" team could very easily lose. So if winning is really someone's concern, aren't their chances better in attending a baseball game than anything else? Going to an MLB game these days is not cheap, but it's certainly more manageable for a family than, say, a professional football or basketball game.

I understand a race for the playoffs garnering interest at the tail end of a season, but why does a team's win-loss record affect attendance so much during the regular season? (and I know that it does)

Because of the psychological effect of being associated with a winner or a loser.

When a team is winning, your average fan is going to go to the park to watch "us" beat the tar out of "them" and when "we" win, then we'll feel good about our association with a great group of hustling ballplayers like Grif, Dunner, Ears, and Fe-Lo. The women folk (present company excluded...I think) know them as Junior, Adam, Austin, and Felipe. When "we're" winning, I find that the majority of female fans start calling "our" players by their first names regardless of the "us" (team) involved.

That is unless a suitable soda-pop nickname can be found that's even more sickening to listen to than the guy's first name. You have no earthly idea how retarded it was to sit at the Metrodome when the Twins were winning with Doug Mientkiewicz while having to listen to chicks yelling "Go Mienky!!!". Don't even get me started on the dreaded "add a 'Y' syndrome" when things are going well. Dan becomes "Danny". Chuck becomes "Chucky". And God forbid if a player actually does have a "y" on the end of his name because you'll hear it repeated ad nauseum for the cuteness factor. A real conversation from 1991 between two 250-lb. female 20-somethings sitting right behind me at the Metrodome as Dan Gladden walked to the plate:

Girl 1: "Y'know, I was at the restaurant the other day, and Danny was there!"

Girl 2: "REALLY? Danny? He's so HOT!"

Girl 1: "I know! He was there with his wife and little baby and he like motioned for his kid to crawl across the table to him. I was like, ready to go over and ask him if I could crawl across the table."

Steel: <mutters to self> "Yeah...'cause a broken table would have really impressed him enough to dump his wife to go home with the likes of you..."

<crack!>

Girl 1: "Oh! He HIT it! RUN DANNY!!! RUN!!!!"

At least I think it was Dan Gladden. Might have been "Bri" (Brian Harper). At least they had an excuse for Kirby <Puckett>, but I digress.

When a team is losing, your average fan is staying away from the park because they don't want to be associated with "those Reds" as "that team" fields slackers like Whiffey, the Strikeout King, Fat Boy, and F'lop. And your average female fan seem to forget the first names of those players altogether and really would rather not talk about any of "those players" on "that team".

When a team wins, your average fan has a near-instinctual realization that winning has rubbed off on them. No fan is as smart or attractive as they are the moment after "we" win a World Series. In the moments following their Series victory every White Sox fan was capable of acing the bar exam, joining Mensa, and signing a modeling contract.

After the loss, most Astros fans felt like John Merrick who couldn't find their keys during a bad hair day.

Simple psychology of the fan.

Revering4Blue
02-02-2006, 04:05 AM
Blazer's GM (Harry Glickman) made a handshake deal with Cleveland to deal MM for a 1st round draft choice.

Actually, it was Buffalo. Right about the time former Colonials owner John Y. Brown traded the #3 pick in the draft to the Bucks for Swen Nater, and gave away McAdoo. He and the Braves owner-I believe his name was Snyder--ran the franchise into the ground.

Revering4Blue
02-02-2006, 04:17 AM
St. Louis sports a higher payroll because of the ownership of the team, it has nothing to do with market size.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But St. Louis does have a larger corporate base than Cincy. That has to factor in there somewhere, even though this is MLB, not the NBA or NFL, which almost entirely depend on a corporate fan base--luxury boxes, club seating etc..

RFS62
02-02-2006, 08:36 AM
Houston filed the insurance claim on Bagwell.

MattyHo4Life
02-02-2006, 09:01 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong. But St. Louis does have a larger corporate base than Cincy. That has to factor in there somewhere, even though this is MLB, not the NBA or NFL, which almost entirely depend on a corporate fan base--luxury boxes, club seating etc..

I really don't know. I do know that St. Louis has lost a lot of their corporate base the last several years. I don't see how that would make a big difference for a baseball team though.

Astrobuddy
02-02-2006, 09:23 AM
Corporations provide sponsorships and buy luxury boxes, plus high dollar season tickets.

vaticanplum
02-02-2006, 10:05 AM
I think this still belongs in this thread...?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/02/sports/baseball/02chass.html

Really kind of sad.

westofyou
02-02-2006, 10:07 AM
I think this still belongs in this thread...?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/02/sports/baseball/02chass.html

Really kind of sad.


McLane, the Astros' owner for 13 years, would prefer that Bagwell, the Astros' first baseman for 15 years, stay home. But Barry Axelrod, Bagwell's agent, said yesterday: "Feb. 23 mark the calendar. That's when he's going in."

"I don't blame someone for wanting to save $15.6 million," Axelrod said. "But it's the cost of doing business. I haven't seen any team take such drastic steps to be out from under a deal as we've seen here."

Astrobuddy
02-03-2006, 09:04 AM
Yes it is sad... Bagwell is a sad injured former superstar who doesnt know when its time to hang it up.

gm
02-13-2006, 11:57 PM
"Dunn to Houston...static...we have a problem...static...come in Houston..."

RFS62
02-14-2006, 12:00 AM
"Dunn to Houston...static...we have a problem...static...come in Houston..."



Bwahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahaha

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

westofyou
02-14-2006, 12:18 AM
Yes it is sad... Bagwell is a sad injured former superstar who doesnt know when its time to hang it up.
Now I guess we shall see if that holds true for others in the greater Houston area.

Ron Madden
02-14-2006, 03:29 AM
Houston... We Have A Problem....

Somebody oughta put BF under a suicide watch.

Astrobuddy
02-14-2006, 04:19 AM
He just signed a 2 year deal. Not a 10 year deal. We will see what happened between now and the end of 2007.


By the way.. what problem is it that Houston has? Being in the playoff hunt or in the playoffs every year? I fail to see how that is a problem.

Raisor
02-14-2006, 06:14 AM
Houston... We Have A Problem....

Somebody oughta put BF under a suicide watch.


I'm going over to the other board to take away BF's shoestrings.

RFS62
02-14-2006, 07:59 AM
I'm going over to the other board to take away BF's shoestrings.



Here's one message from the Reds site directed to him..



DUNN CALLED,HE WANTED TO KNOW IF YOU NEEDED A LOAN



:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

RFS62
02-14-2006, 08:01 AM
He just signed a 2 year deal. Not a 10 year deal. We will see what happened between now and the end of 2007.





Oh yeah, keep spinning. I thought he was hell-bent to get out of town and down to Houston?

GoReds
02-14-2006, 08:06 AM
Because the third year is a team option, it's really a three-year deal.

flyer85
02-14-2006, 08:40 AM
Because the third year is a team option, it's really a three-year deal.and it isn't a stretch to believe they have locked him up for what will end up bing the best 3 years of his career.

Jpup
02-14-2006, 10:35 AM
He just signed a 2 year deal. Not a 10 year deal. We will see what happened between now and the end of 2007.


By the way.. what problem is it that Houston has? Being in the playoff hunt or in the playoffs every year? I fail to see how that is a problem.



:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

westofyou
02-14-2006, 10:41 AM
By the way.. what problem is it that Houston has?

Ugly urban sprawl, humidity and cocky fans are the three I can think of off the top of my head.

RedsManRick
02-14-2006, 10:57 AM
Because the third year is a team option, it's really a three-year deal.

Per Marc's blog, the option is voided if he's dealt. It's a 3 year deal to us, a 2 year deal for anybody else.

lollipopcurve
02-14-2006, 11:08 AM
Big ol' reunion party will have to wait till 2008-2009 at the earliest, if ever.

In the meantime, A-buddy can enjoy contending vs Dunn and the Reds.

westofyou
02-14-2006, 11:18 AM
"Interesting quote by Adam Dunn's Agent"


"Adam was willing to commit one of those free-agent years to the Reds, and not to any other team," said Genske.

If any of you have your Texas reading glasses on can you let me know if "Reds" reads as "Astros" or if it's just "Reds" like I think it says.

Joseph
02-14-2006, 11:23 AM
Just like Sean Casey said in the interview, I don't think anyone grows up NOT wanting to play for the hometown team, but once the real world arrives and you are drafted and play elsewhere, those thoughts float away like a butterfly in the wind.

Or something.

Yachtzee
02-14-2006, 11:36 AM
Ugly urban sprawl, humidity and cocky fans are the three I can think of off the top of my head.

And Spring Training in Kissimmee, FL.

http://home.teleport.com/~rasputin/ImageFiles/BeavisButthead.jpg

"Heh-heh, Heh-he, Kissimmee Astros, Heh-heh, Heh-heh."

Raisor
02-14-2006, 11:41 AM
Ugly urban sprawl, humidity and cocky fans are the three I can think of off the top of my head.


I was there four months once, and while it didn't rain a drop there was always mud everywhere.

Where does the mud come from?

Actually, I don't want to know.

ochre
02-14-2006, 11:44 AM
I was there four months once, and while it didn't rain a drop there was always mud everywhere.

Where does the mud come from?

Actually, I don't want to know.
ummm. That wasn't mud.

vaticanplum
02-14-2006, 11:49 AM
once the real world arrives and you are drafted and play elsewhere, those thoughts float away like a butterfly in the wind.

You've been watching too much Olympics.

Joseph
02-14-2006, 11:53 AM
You've been watching too much Olympics.

No, I'm just bad with allegories.

creek14
02-14-2006, 11:55 AM
No, I'm just bad with allegories.
I take Sudifed for mine. :mooner:

RFS62
02-14-2006, 12:01 PM
Mosquitos the size of wombats.

I saw a herd of them fly off with a small child.

Just sayin'

smith288
02-14-2006, 01:00 PM
"Interesting quote by Adam Dunn's Agent"



If any of you have your Texas reading glasses on can you let me know if "Reds" reads as "Astros" or if it's just "Reds" like I think it says.
I put on my Houston colored goggles and it reads in part:

"Adam was willing to commit one of those free-agent years to the Reds, and not to any other team [except the sweetest team ever, Astros!]," said Genske.

Astrobuddy
02-15-2006, 09:56 AM
You guys are all excited about a 1 year deal. Thats what Adam signed. He signed a very tradeable contract, by design I imagine and he is only promised to the Reds for 1 more year than he would have been anyway. Dunn's trade value just went up. The Reds were smart making this move. So was Dunn.

Dunn will be traded.

traderumor
02-15-2006, 10:14 AM
You guys are all excited about a 1 year deal. Thats what Adam signed. He signed a very tradeable contract, by design I imagine and he is only promised to the Reds for 1 more year than he would have been anyway. Dunn's trade value just went up. The Reds were smart making this move. So was Dunn.

Dunn will be traded.I believe its called obsessing.

westofyou
02-15-2006, 10:18 AM
I imagine

Yeah you do alot of that.

Spin, spin, spin...

RFS62
02-15-2006, 10:19 AM
Dunn will be traded.



Wow, I'm confused.

I thought he couldn't wait to get down there of his own free will?

So, now you think we're going to trade him to Houston?

Astrobuddy
02-15-2006, 10:22 AM
Yes... :cool:

letsgojunior
02-15-2006, 10:23 AM
You guys are all excited about a 1 year deal. Thats what Adam signed. He signed a very tradeable contract, by design I imagine and he is only promised to the Reds for 1 more year than he would have been anyway. Dunn's trade value just went up. The Reds were smart making this move. So was Dunn.

Dunn will be traded.

http://www.urbanites.plus.com/troll.gif