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Wheelhouse
01-31-2006, 06:46 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060131&content_id=1304372&vkey=pr_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

RedLegSuperStar
01-31-2006, 07:21 PM
Not sure how I feel about this deal... Being a major league contract, I would believe the contract is for at least $500,000.. I just think we have the likes of Hudson, Hancock, Wags, Mercker, Weathers, etc.. whats the point? If he can some how pull a Todd Jones and revive his career then deal him for prospects at the break then I'm ok with it.. just don't know how this improves the club

RedLegSuperStar
01-31-2006, 07:26 PM
with White, the Reds now have 41 players on the roster... who gets demoted or designated?

EX BRAVEDAD
01-31-2006, 09:24 PM
Bubba gets the axe

MattyHo4Life
01-31-2006, 09:52 PM
Can they demote White? ;)

Slyder
01-31-2006, 09:58 PM
Standridge is another I would consider. White actually looks like he has something left in the tank to help the pen.

Henry Clay
01-31-2006, 11:04 PM
I'm scratching my head on this one. The rotation will have Harang, Claussen, Milton, Williams, and possibly Wilson. Belisle will either be in the bullpen or a spot starter early in the season. Mercker and Weathers, unless traded, are in the bullpen. Coffey, Wagner, Standridge, Shackelford, Simpson, Burns, and Germano are all in the mix for the bullpen. I don't know whether Bong will be ready to go, but if so, he should be in the mix. Balfour is supposed to be ready sometime this season, if he is ever ready again. Although I believe that a bullpen can never be too deep or too good, signing Rick White to a major league contract is going to squeeze out one younger pitcher who could use the development and possibly force somebody onto waivers. I don't know who still has option years, but I would suspect that Germano, Burns, Bong, and Simpson are close to being out of options if they are not already. I would not wonder as much at this move if I felt White significantly improved the bullpen. I just don't think he brings that much to the table. He gave up 90 hits and 29 BB in 75 IP last year. He struck out only 11 more batters than he walked. Additionally, for what it's worth, the 2006 Bill James Handbook predicts a 4.53 ERA for the guy next year.

Nugget
02-01-2006, 12:13 AM
I'm usually supportive of the FO moves (even DanO's) but I too am left wondering by this move. Did they not get their veteran presence in the pen when they added Hammond. It seems to me that Kullman has gone back to the days of Bowden when the REDS stocked pitchers for the sake of having them. It continued in the DanO era as well. It seems that the REDS sign as many pitchers as possible on the basis that on the law of averages one will pan out.

M2
02-01-2006, 02:11 AM
They signed Mr. White?!

http://www.videovista.net/reviews/june04/resdogs4.jpg

Doc. Scott
02-01-2006, 04:09 AM
Methinks Burns could slide through waivers, unless DanO gets another GM job before he clears.

BoydsOfSummer
02-01-2006, 06:22 AM
http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0201reds.html?cxtype=rss


Springfield's White finally gets to pitch for Reds

Veteran reliever fulfills goal, signs one-year deal

By Hal McCoy (http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/mailto:hmccoy@DaytonDailyNews.com)
Dayton Daily News
CINCINNATI | In all his travels through eight major-league cities in the past 12 years, relief pitcher Rick White always wanted to do one thing before he quit picking up rosin bags pitch for the Cincinnati Reds, the team he loved as a child.
White, 37, gets that chance this year. The Springfield native agreed to a one-year $600,000 contract Monday with the Reds, with $300,000 more available in performance incentives.
In each of the past two seasons, when he was a free agent, White made himself available to the Reds, but they weren't interested. So, he signed with Cleveland in 2004 and with Pittsburgh in 2005.
White is a 1987 graduate of Kenton Ridge, a high school that also produced major-league pitchers Dave Burba and Dustin Hermanson.
He grew up a Reds fan, going often to games at Riverfront Stadium, and he said as late as last year, "I've always dreamed of pitching for the Reds. They were my team growing up, and I'd like to pitch for them before I retire."
He was 4-7 with a 3.72 ERA in 75 appearances for the Pirates last year. In his 10 seasons pitching for Pittsburgh (twice), Tampa Bay, the New York Mets, Colorado, St. Louis, the Chicago White Sox, Houston and Cleveland, White is 37-52 with a 4.24 ERA in 520 appearances, all in relief.
Arbitration update

Arbitration dates have been set for shortstop Felipe Lopez and first baseman Adam Dunn to determine how much richer the two Cincinnati Reds players will be. Even if they lose at their hearings, they win, because they'll receive large raises.
Lopez, who hit .291 with 23 homers and 85 RBIs and was the Reds' only All-Star last season, is scheduled to meet with a three-person arbitration board Feb. 8 at the Vinoy Hotel in St. Petersburg, Fla.
Lopez is asking for $3 million, and the Reds are offering $2.15 million.
Dunn, who hit .247 with 40 homers and 101 RBIs while playing 160 of the team's 162 games, is scheduled at the Vinoy for Feb.17. Dunn is asking for $8.95 million, and the team is offering $7.1 million.
Lopez, Dunn and the team can come to compromise figures between now and the hearings. But once the hearings are held, arbitrators must declare a winner, with no compromises on the numbers.
The Reds' arbitration team consists of interim general manager Brad Kullman, assistant general manager Dean Taylor, special assistant Dick Williams, coordinator of major league scouting Nick Krall and club attorneys Mark Rosenthal and Alex Tamin.
No new candidates

On the general manager front, there are no additional candidates to be interviewed on the immediate horizon. The team is concentrating this week on interviewing seven candidates: Minnesota's Wayne Krivsky, Philadelphia's Mike Arbuckle, St. Louis' John Mozeliak and in-house candidates Brad Kullman, Johnny Almaraz, Leland Maddox and Jim Beattie.
http://images.clickability.com/pti/spacer.gif

KronoRed
02-01-2006, 07:03 AM
They signed Mr. White?!

http://www.videovista.net/reviews/june04/resdogs4.jpg
I like the suit, brings a classiness to the team.

dougflynn23
02-01-2006, 09:33 AM
:( I got slammed pretty good a few months back when I expressed my belief that the Reds bullpen in 2006 would be in the top 1/3 of NL bullpens. I want to retract that statement today if Rick White takes the slot of a young arm.

While you need veteran presence in the bullpen, you also need pitchers who have live arms and at least a minimal ability to make balls avoid bats. The thought of a Weathers/Mercker/Hammond veteran core, and young guns such as Coffey, Wagner, Shackelford, and Belisle looked to be a good mix. 4 RH, 3 LH, and 4 of the seven with their best days ahead of them. The fallback plan in the event that Ryan Wagner has a rough spring, or that Paul Wilson is not ready in the rotation would have been to insert either Jason Standridge, Mike Burns, or Elizardo Ramirez....not another veteran who has lost the ability to pitch to non-contact.

The back end of your bullpen should not be 35+ year old pitchers who have lost their stuff. It should be stocked with guys like Belisle, Shackelford, and in my opinion Ramirez who can learn on the job and work their way into a more vital role. If White bumps Belisle, Wagner, or Shackelford, I will be very concerned.

Henry Clay
02-01-2006, 11:20 AM
Mea Culpa! I forgot to include Hammond in my bullpen list. With Hammond, the bullpen is even more crowded. The addition of White is guaranteed to steal time from youth.

Caseyfan21
02-01-2006, 11:48 AM
I'm usually supportive of the FO moves (even DanO's) but I too am left wondering by this move. Did they not get their veteran presence in the pen when they added Hammond. It seems to me that Kullman has gone back to the days of Bowden when the REDS stocked pitchers for the sake of having them. It continued in the DanO era as well. It seems that the REDS sign as many pitchers as possible on the basis that on the law of averages one will pan out.

The law of averages sure hasn't book working too well...at least with the starters. ;)

Chip R
02-01-2006, 12:02 PM
The addition of White is guaranteed to steal time from youth.

Maybe. But at who's expense? Hancock? Everyone around here has a cringefest when he's even on the active roster much less inserted into a game. Ramirez? No one thinks he's anything special. Hudson? A failure as a starter and while he had some success last year as a long man, he certainly hasn't improved since he's been here. I imagine Belisle will be a setup guy or a starter and most people on here think Shackleford was just plain lucky last year. Standridge is nothing special. I'm not a fan of White but I think the argument of whether he's blocking some promising pitchers we have in the minor leagues is like saying Womack is blocking Ordonez and Bergolla.

M2
02-01-2006, 12:07 PM
Good points Chip. Unless White's stealing a roster spot from Wagner or Coffey, it's not like he's blocking anyone important. Looks like a firewall signing to me.

Caveat Emperor
02-01-2006, 12:13 PM
Good points Chip. Unless White's stealing a roster spot from Wagner or Coffey, it's not like he's blocking anyone important. Looks like a firewall signing to me.

Agreed.

This has all the earmarkings of a "Warm Body" signing. Given the lack of pitchers in the rotation with the ability to pitch deep into ballgames (read: everyone not named Aaron), having as many warm bodies who can toss innnings out of the Bullpen isn't exactly a bad thing.

toledodan
02-01-2006, 12:20 PM
my guess is simpson could be the odd man out.

Chip R
02-01-2006, 12:22 PM
my guess is simpson could be the odd man out.

Another guy who can't find the plate with a map and/or compass.

Doc. Scott
02-01-2006, 01:41 PM
Except White has made a handful of starts in his career. Yet another error for Mr. McCoy.

Heath
02-01-2006, 01:52 PM
Dear Dayton Daily News,

Please may I request that Hal McCoy be removed from the DDN beat of the Cincinnati Reds. For years, Hal has graced our precence with thoughtful insights regarding the Reds. While McCoy's experience is valuable, one must consider the quality of his recent writings and factual checkings. While the degenerative vision condition that has taken over Hal, it has no doubt been a condition that is affecting his work and quality.

I've seen his faithful wife Nadine at his side taking him to dinner and walking around the Dayton area and she along with the DDN staffers assigned to Hal, should be commended for their service over the past few years.

Please for the benefit of the readers here in Dayton and the thousands online, please consider making Hal a "Reds Emeritus" a la Ritter Collett, and allow him for his feature writing on "Ask Hal" or "Baseball Insider" or the occasional game-day beat involving Opening Day and the like. Have Hal honored at a Dayton Dragons game for his "retirement".

After Hal has been taken off the Daily News beat, please look at the writings of Marc Lancaster of the Cincinnati Post. As you are well aware, the Post could cease to exist after December 31, 2006. Mr. Lancaster over the past two years has shown well-equipped to take the reins of the Reds beat for many years to come for the Dayton and Miami Valley area.

Thank you for your time,

Sincerely -

A life-long Reds fan & long time DDN Subscriber.

dfs
02-01-2006, 02:22 PM
The back end of your bullpen should not be 35+ year old pitchers who have lost their stuff. It should be stocked with guys like Belisle, Shackelford, and in my opinion Ramirez who can learn on the job and work their way into a more vital role. If White bumps Belisle, Wagner, or Shackelford, I will be very concerned.

FWIW I agree with what you write here. I think the best way to introduce a potential starting pitcher to the major league roster is to let him get his feet wet in the swingman/blowout role and as he succeeds there, put him into a bigger role. I think Earl Weaver was big on that.

For some reason, the reds don't do that.
Guys come up too fast, get plugged into the starting rotation,
They have a decent turn or two.
The league adapts to them, but they don't adapt to the league.
They start to get shelled.
They get taken from the rotation and moved to the pen
or dealt.

It's weird and we can't blame it on Gullet anymore.

Strikes Out Looking
02-01-2006, 02:59 PM
I guess Jeff Shaw was unavailable.

Henry Clay
02-01-2006, 03:12 PM
Maybe. But at who's expense? Hancock? Everyone around here has a cringefest when he's even on the active roster much less inserted into a game. Ramirez? No one thinks he's anything special. Hudson? A failure as a starter and while he had some success last year as a long man, he certainly hasn't improved since he's been here. I imagine Belisle will be a setup guy or a starter and most people on here think Shackleford was just plain lucky last year. Standridge is nothing special. I'm not a fan of White but I think the argument of whether he's blocking some promising pitchers we have in the minor leagues is like saying Womack is blocking Ordonez and Bergolla.

I guess with those examples I might agree with you. Wagner, Coffey, Simpson, and Burns were also on my list. They have more of an upside. Only two or three of those guys can now join the bullpen. Balfour, if healthy, has nowhere to go. The guys you mention will also be blocked, including Belisle, unless he is needed to spot start. What happens then when Wilson comes back? My point is: Why go out of house to bring in someone who is not necessarily better than what you've got, costs more, and blocks the growth of what you've got. For what it's worth, Womack is potentially blocking Freel and Olmedo and cost the team a better option via trade. That bothers me, too.

BEETTLEBUG
02-01-2006, 04:44 PM
Why not sign Felix Rodriguez which JIMBO signed for same money that we signed Rick White for? Felix is younger.

KronoRed
02-01-2006, 04:58 PM
Felix is younger.
We don't like youth in Cincy..we like old guys ;)

Chip R
02-01-2006, 05:14 PM
I guess with those examples I might agree with you. Wagner, Coffey, Simpson, and Burns were also on my list. They have more of an upside. Only two or three of those guys can now join the bullpen. Balfour, if healthy, has nowhere to go. The guys you mention will also be blocked, including Belisle, unless he is needed to spot start. What happens then when Wilson comes back? My point is: Why go out of house to bring in someone who is not necessarily better than what you've got, costs more, and blocks the growth of what you've got. For what it's worth, Womack is potentially blocking Freel and Olmedo and cost the team a better option via trade. That bothers me, too.

Well, I'm with M2 - since he agreed with me. :D If he's blocking guys like Wagner, Coffey and Belisle then it's a problem. If it's some of those stiffs you mentioned in AAA, then it's not a big deal. I'm not crazy about the signing and they could have done better. It's a real indictment on the Reds' past regimes that there aren't guys in AAA or AA that can fill that spot. Same way with Womack. I hate that signing but Olmedo or Bergolla aren't the answer either. I'm with you. I'd much rather have Freel out there every day but that is beside the point. The Reds don't have anyone in their system that could fill that bill either and that is a crying shame. Of course even if there were, Narron probably wouldn't play him anyway. But that's another story.

Nugget
02-01-2006, 06:28 PM
Freel has pretty much proved that he can't play everyday - last year showed that.

I think that even if White is standing in the way of Simpson, Standridge et al its still a problem. White has fulfilled his talent - ie he is a known quantity. He's not a top end bullpen mark either, serviceable but not what you would call an integral member of a bullpen. The others are relatively young, may have some improvement in them and could really be a find. I mean Harang took two years to blossom and Santana had to be picked up in a rule V before showcasing everything he had.

M2
02-01-2006, 07:12 PM
Freel has pretty much proved that he can't play everyday - last year showed that.

And the previous year showed that he could.

I know this much, the speedy leadoff guy with the .370+ OB would be the first name I'd write in the lineup card as often as possible.

Gallen5862
02-01-2006, 07:56 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/transactions
Cincinnati Reds Designated pitcher Bubba Nelson for assignment; named Mile LaCoss roving minor league pitching instructor.

Henry Clay
02-01-2006, 10:33 PM
And the previous year showed that he could.

I know this much, the speedy leadoff guy with the .370+ OB would be the first name I'd write in the lineup card as often as possible.

I agree completely. The fact that Womack is now likely to displace Freel makes this year worse than last year for 2B, even with Aurilia's time in the position. The only way Freel can play everyday without making the team worse in other areas is if he plays at second or if someone gets hurt. I vote for the former. If Narron moves Freel to the OF to give Womack time at second, it hurts the team by replacing Kearns, Griffey, or Pena in the lineup with Womack and his horrific OPS. Moving Freel to 3B for the same reason will just take time from Encarnacion and his development. Freel has decent range and fielding numbers, comparable to Robinson Cano per Bill James, so I see no reason for him to sit while Womack plays.

As for White displacing younger Reds pitchers, I just think it creates a bad bottleneck. The team needs to decide on a number of these younger relievers. Perhaps the plan is to return Wagner to AAA, as was discussed in an earlier thread, which could free up more space in the bullpen. My concern is that Mercker, Weathers, Hammond, and White leave only 2 or 3 spots for other arms in the bullpen. Each of those pitchers is over 35. All but Hammond can walk after this year. The team needs to assess whether Coffey, Wagner, Belisle, Burns, Simpson, Standridge, Shackleford, Hancock, Balfour, and/or Ramirez are major league caliber pitchers this season and beyond. Maybe that can be done through AAA time and in season promotions due to injuries, but I would prefer to leave the middling, more expensive, old guy off of the roster and give a chance to 3 or 4 of the cheaper in-house options. If White were clearly a better option than all of these guys, I might not care so much that he is taking time from others.