RedsZone Hall of Fame - Starting Pitchers, J-P

[Cyclone792]

Starting Pitchers A-I poll remains open until February 8th (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42303)

Vote for all STARTING PITCHERS with last names beginning with J-P that you believe should be in the Hall of Fame. This is a multiple-choice poll so you're allowed to vote for more than one player.


19th century (i.e. pre 1903): Need 2/5 support
Early Modern (roughly 1903-1945): Need 1/2 support
Integration (roughly 1945-1970): Need 5/8 support
Post Integration (roughly 1970-present): Need 2/3 support



Player Innings ERA+ Era
Larry Jackson 3,262.2 113 Integration
Fergie Jenkins 4,500.2 115 Post Integration
Tommy John 4,710.1 111 Post Integration
Walter Johnson 5,914.2 146 Early Modern to WWII
Sad Sam Jones 3,883.0 104 Early Modern to WWII
Addie Joss 2,237.0 142 Early Modern to WWII
Jim Kaat 4,530.1 107 Integration
Tim Keefe 5,047.2 125 19th Century
Jimmy Key 2,591.2 122 Post Integration
Jerry Koosman 3,839.1 110 Post Integration
Sandy Koufax 2,324.1 131 Integration
Bob Lemon 2,850.0 119 Integration
Mickey Lolich 3,638.1 104 Post Integration
Dolf Luque 3,220.1 117 Early Modern to WWII
Ted Lyons 4,161.0 118 Early Modern to WWII



Player Innings ERA+ Era
Juan Marichal 3,507.1 122 Integration
Rube Marquard 3,306.2 103 Early Modern to WWII
Dennis Martinez 3,999.2 106 Post Integration
Christy Mathewson 4,780.2 135 Early Modern to WWII
Carl Mays 3,021.1 119 Early Modern to WWII
Joe McGinnity 3,441.1 121 Early Modern to WWII
Jack Morris 3,824.0 105 Post Integration
George Mullin 3,686.2 101 Early Modern to WWII
Tony Mullane 4,531.1 118 19th Century
Don Newcombe 2,154.2 114 Integration
Hal Newhouser 2,993.0 130 Integration
Bobo Newsom 3,759.3 107 Early Modern to WWII
Kid Nichols 5,056.1 139 19th Century
Joe Niekro 3,584.0 97 Post Integration
Phil Niekro 5,404.1 115 Post Integration



Player Innings ERA+ Era
Jim Palmer 3,948.0 125 Post Integration
Milt Pappas 3,186.0 110 Integration
Mel Parnell 1,752.2 125 Integration
Herb Pennock 3,571.2 106 Early Modern to WWII
Gaylord Perry 5,350.1 117 Post Integration
Billy Pierce 3,306.2 119 Integration
Eddie Plank 4,495.2 122 Early Modern to WWII

[M2]

Best pitcher most people don't know about - Kid Nichols

http://www.baseball-reference.com/n/nichoki01.shtml

Also show some love for - Gettysburg Eddie Plank

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/planked01.shtml

Hall of Famers I didn't pick - Rube Marquard (an easy drop) and Ted Lyons ( a hard one, among other things his CG ratio was nuts - 356 CG in 484 starts).

Guy who was a lot better than you might have thought (though I still didn't vote for him) - Billy Pierce

If only he'd have been sober in the early-to-mid 80s - Dennis Martinez, who was dynamite once he sobered up.

If only he'd have been named Don Luck - Dolph Luque, who took an unreasonably long time to stick in the majors. Didn't log his first full major league season until age 29 and still had a great career.

Guy for whom you could make a good "fame" case - Don Newcombe

Damn the statistics, I saw Game Seven of the 1991 World Series - Jack Morris

Pitched with both hands - Tony Mullane

Hall of Fame transaction history - Bobo Newsom, on whom Mike Morgan had nothing.

[Cyclone792]

I'll bump this up ... poll closes in a couple days.

For those unfamiliar with some of the pitchers, M2's posted some good stuff there on guys that aren't commonly known anymore today. I'll post my ballot up shortly.

[WVRedsFan]

Where's Bob Purkey???

[M2]

All right, what two people didn't vote for Walter Johnson?

[Cyclone792]

Walter Johnson = Greatest Pitcher Ever, IMO :)

My ballot:

Fergie Jenkins
Tommy John
Walter Johnson
Addie Joss
Tim Keefe
Sandy Koufax
Bob Lemon
Dolf Luque
Ted Lyons
Juan Marichal
Christy Mathewson
Carl Mays
Joe McGinnity
Hal Newhouser
Kid Nichols
Phil Niekro
Jim Palmer
Gaylord Perry
Billy Pierce
Eddie Plank

I got exceptionally liberal and voted for a ton of guys. I could just have easily not voted for guys like Mays, Lemon, Pierce and Luque, but decided if I'm voting for one I might as well vote for them all.

[Scrap Irony]

Morris deserves it, as he was, arguably, the top pitcher in his league not only for the decade of the 80's (full decade), but also that he pitched great ball when it mattered most.

That 91 WS game is quite possibly the best pitched game of the past 50 years.

And he looked cool, too.

And he was tough.

[Big Klu]

I voted for:

Jenkins, John, Johnson, Joss, Kaat, Keefe, Koufax, Lemon, Marichal, Mathewson, Mays, McGinnity, Morris, Newhouser, Nichols, P. Niekro, Palmer, Perry, and Plank.


I thought that Johnson, Mathewson, Koufax, Marichal, Palmer, Perry, Newhouser, and Plank were automatic choices.


A brief anecdote regarding Walter Johnson:

A few years ago, I was working on a research project on the history of the local high school basketball team, and I spent a lot of time reading old newspapers in the archives. Anyway, I was reading through papers from the winter months (basketball season) during the 20's, and I noticed that there was a syndicated column called "Ask Walter Johnson". Readers could write c/o their local newspaper, and ask the Big Train questions about baseball. One letter that caught my eye was something along the lines of,

"Dear Walter,

What is the best pitch to throw?"

Walter replied, "I am firmly of the belief that the best pitch when the game is on the line is, and always has been, a good fastball. I would be a better pitcher today if I had relied on my fastball more when I was younger, instead of throwing breaking pitches." I was amazed! Here was a man who is still considered nearly 100 years later to be one of the greatest strikeout artists of all time commenting (earnestly, in my opinion) that he could have been even better than he was if he hadn't become infatuated with the curveball as a young man.

[Cyclone792]

Excellent anecdote, Big Klu, that's good stuff! Not only do I consider Johnson one of the greatest strikeout pitchers of all-time, I rank him as the greatest pitcher of all-time. To think that he believed he could have been even better had he used that killer fastball of his more often ... wow, just amazing.

The final results ...


RedsZone Hall of Fame - Starting Pitchers J-P

Player % of votes
Fergie Jenkins 75.86 percent
Walter Johnson 89.66 percent
Sandy Koufax 93.10 percent
Juan Marichal 93.10 percent
Christy Mathewson 89.66 percent
Kid Nichols 58.62 percent
Jim Palmer 86.21 percent
Gaylord Perry 68.97 percent
Eddie Plank 55.17 percent

Nine more guys joined the previous 12 starting pitchers, for a total of 21 now with one more starting pitchers poll to go.

[Puffy]

Addie Joss not making it is rough. However he did only play 9 years and it was dead ball era, so I understand - but a career era of 1.89 and 236 CG's in less than 300 starts is sick.

And he rocks in sim leagues.