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TeamSelig
02-03-2006, 10:07 AM
Some have came up with some ideas to move him to a different position to save a little bit on his legs, such as 1B or a corner OF position. With him moving to 1B, he's never played the position before, and who knows how he would adapt to it. With him moving to a COF position, the sudden stops and going into the corners could be more damaging than playing Centerfield.

However, I'm not concerned with his health. The way I look at it, there is a very high risk of him getting hurt no matter what position he plays. He has proved that he can still field with the best of them, he just doesn't have very good range anymore, which is understandable, he's in his late 30s, and has had numerous surgeries on his legs.

Basically what I'm saying is, move him to a corner position. If its worse on his legs, will we get 1/4 of a season instead of 1/2? The sudden stops and cuts might be harder on him, but it will improve our OF defense (which is very important IMO).

Just a random thought I had while reading some other thread.

Cooper
02-03-2006, 10:22 AM
Was just thinking the same thing.

We need a CF who can move....Jr. can't get moving like he used to.
If you have a bad pitching staff, you better catch every ball you can. We need some range in CF and he just isn't even close to having the necessary range. There are 5-7 defensive metrics out there. How relieable are they, no one can be completely sure, but KGJ finishes close to last in all of them. How many wins does that cost us (as it relates to a normal CFer)? Maybe 1.5 or 2 .....IMO, that's alot.

bnancs
02-03-2006, 10:35 AM
This year, though, he's now two years out from a major leg injury. There's a very good chance he'll regain some speed and quickness as a result. Let's hope so, because I don't see the Reds moving him anywhere.

Cooper
02-03-2006, 10:39 AM
2 years out? Dint he have ankle surgery in the offseason? Besides that he's had a major history of leg problems --those have a cumulative eefct when you are in your late 30's. His days as an average CF are over....doesn't matter if he had leg surgery or not.

bnancs
02-03-2006, 10:44 AM
Did he? If so, I was misremembering (won't be the last time) - I was thinking he had shut it down last year for something minor. Well, if he did, then I'd have to agree. However, I still don't see the Reds making that move.

Johnny Footstool
02-03-2006, 11:23 AM
This year, though, he's now two years out from a major leg injury. There's a very good chance he'll regain some speed and quickness as a result. Let's hope so, because I don't see the Reds moving him anywhere.

Quickness and speed just don't return for guys in their mid-30s.

Caseyfan21
02-03-2006, 11:34 AM
2 years out? Dint he have ankle surgery in the offseason? Besides that he's had a major history of leg problems --those have a cumulative eefct when you are in your late 30's. His days as an average CF are over....doesn't matter if he had leg surgery or not.

I want to say he had a minor surgery in the offseason (arthoscopic) to clean out from the previous surgeries. Nothing to major, just fix up some problems he had from the previous major operations.

I agree, he doesn't have the range of even an average center fielder, but he does read the ball off the bat with the best of them, which is why he should stay in center. Moving him to a corner would just take away from his ability to read the ball off the bat and would further reduce his range.

pedro
02-03-2006, 12:12 PM
I want to say he had a minor surgery in the offseason (arthoscopic) to clean out from the previous surgeries. Nothing to major, just fix up some problems he had from the previous major operations.

I agree, he doesn't have the range of even an average center fielder, but he does read the ball off the bat with the best of them, which is why he should stay in center. Moving him to a corner would just take away from his ability to read the ball off the bat and would further reduce his range.

I'm not sure there is really any evidence for your assertation. In any case the Reds can't afford to accept such poor range in CF if they want to have a winning team IMO.

M2
02-03-2006, 12:26 PM
He has proved that he can still field with the best of them, he just doesn't have very good range anymore, which is understandable, he's in his late 30s, and has had numerous surgeries on his legs.

Ummmmm, you can't field the position if you don't have any range. The two go hand-in-hand.

Jpup
02-03-2006, 12:33 PM
Pitching, pitching, pitching.

RedsManRick
02-03-2006, 01:23 PM
I'm afraid that the Ken Griffey in CF approach is the same as the Ryan Freel is a utility guy approach. You over correct for an issue and hurt the team the process.

If Freel doesn't get off the bench and subsequently doesn't get injured, then he's added no value to the team. What's the difference between getting 350 AB as a super sub and starting everyday and getting injured after 350 AB? Well, in his case there is an argument that you know you have him when you need him. Well, that's all well and good if you can win with him on the bench. (see Dave Roberts in Boston) But he's not gaurenteed to get injured if you start him everyday -- he could get 550 AB. If you bring him off the bench, he's gaurenteed NOT to get 550 AB and still may end up injured even so and then you won't even get those 350 AB.

With Junior staying in CF to "protect" his hamstrings...honestly, what's the difference in odds of him getting hurt in CF versus LF -- maybe a 40% in CF and a 45% in LF? However, if you leave him in CF, you are gaurenteed to have one of the worst defensive CFs in the game. You locked yourself in to a sub-optimal arrangement for fear of a potentially worse situation down the road. But what are we really protecting?

If you'll allow the analogy; we're down 42-14 in the 4th quarter, but we're running the ball because we're scared of throwing interceptions. This team needs to maximize it's talent across the field. While we don't want to take stupid risks, I think we're TOO risk averse, and hampering our ability to successful in the process. Our defense is attrocious, and even if it means slightly increasing the odds of losing Junior's bat, the fact of the matter is that we CANNOT win with the defense we're running out there.

toledodan
02-03-2006, 01:33 PM
can kearns play centerfield?

Chip R
02-03-2006, 02:00 PM
can kearns play centerfield?

He has before but I'm not sure if he can now.

Cooper
02-03-2006, 02:25 PM
I think you gotta go with WMP, who seems to play CF alot better than RF. I have a few reasons why.

1. In CF you always have the right away to any ball you can get to, thus you don't have to worry about a possible language barrier the impedes calling for the ball...if the CF grunts it's his ball. May WMP is worried about communicating with guys. It's a little bit of a reach i know, but there may be something to this.

2. I always felt it was easier to play center because of the angle off the bat and the CF always plays safety --they take the deeper angle for a ball in the gap....that makes it easier. There's no decision to make whereas a LF and a RF have a decision to make on the angle and their approach.

3. Maybe he gets going quicker in CF, thus utilizing his overall speed better....this is reaching.

Chip R
02-03-2006, 03:26 PM
I think you gotta go with WMP, who seems to play CF alot better than RF. I have a few reasons why.

1. In CF you always have the right away to any ball you can get to, thus you don't have to worry about a possible language barrier the impedes calling for the ball...if the CF grunts it's his ball. May WMP is worried about communicating with guys. It's a little bit of a reach i know, but there may be something to this.

2. I always felt it was easier to play center because of the angle off the bat and the CF always plays safety --they take the deeper angle for a ball in the gap....that makes it easier. There's no decision to make whereas a LF and a RF have a decision to make on the angle and their approach.

3. Maybe he gets going quicker in CF, thus utilizing his overall speed better....this is reaching.

I think WMP is better in CF than he is in RF and LF. Of course that's damning him with faint praise. I've seen him not get to balls in front of him that Jr. would have put in his back pocket. Perhaps he has problems tracking the ball off the bat. But you're right that CF is easier to play than RF or LF. Unfortunately WMP may not be better than Jr. out there.

RedsBaron
02-03-2006, 03:35 PM
If you'll allow the analogy; we're down 42-14 in the 4th quarter,
With the Reds pitching (and hitting), you could have posted that we're down 42-14 in the 7th inning and I would have believed it! Probably Milton was the starting pitcher, and the Reds have reacquired Graves for the bullpen.

redsfanfalcon
02-04-2006, 10:06 AM
Junior gets a great jump on the ball. He knows how to read the ball off the bat. It doesn't matter if you are Carl Lewis in your prime if you don't get a good jump on the ball.

RedsManRick
02-04-2006, 12:54 PM
Griffey has a great first step still, but his acceleration is crap. When you have a lot of ground to cover, acceleration is just as important. In right/left, when the angle is more important and you have less time to react, the jump is more important than the raw speed.

At the end of the day, I think Kearns or Pena would both turn more batted balls in to outs than Junior. My only concern with Pena is that where Junior will know he can't get there and cut the ball off, Pena will bust out full speed and come up 3 feet short, turning a single in to a double or triple. Still, I'd like to see Junior in LF, Pena in CF, and Kearns in RF. The OF defense is going to be sub-par regardless, so lets get Pena some experience out there and let Junior tutor him a bit.

Nugget
02-06-2006, 07:14 PM
I don't think any more experience is going to help out WMP. He's had three years in the bigs seeing top class CF's everyday and if hasn't learnt enough now to show some improvement then he has gone as far as he can. His problem is as identified both reading the ball off the bat and also judging his runs. If he really was about improving his defense he should be playing CF in winter ball but I understand he is playing at 1B.