PDA

View Full Version : It's Krivsky



Benihana
02-08-2006, 03:52 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2323116

Sea Ray
02-08-2006, 03:59 PM
That makes more sense than Hal's drivel this morning. It's time that guy retires. My sources are more accurate than his.

I think Krivsky is a fine choice, especially since we get to keep Beattie too. Good luck to him. May he be the anti O'Brien.

Sabo Fan
02-08-2006, 04:02 PM
Ok, not bad. Not my first choice by any means, but I'm willing to give the guy a shot and I'm optimistic that he can come through. I'm a bit concerned that he leans a little too much to the skills side for my taste, but as long as Kullman is around I feel like he provides a good balance.

It would be interesting to see where the Reds would be now if Krivsky was the hire three years ago. Hopefully he can make up for lost time.

If he wants some help on what his first order of business should be, I think I can provide a starting point: get Dunn signed long-term. No more messing around with arbitration and all that, let Dunn know he's a building block and move forward. That act in and of itself will go a long way towards me believing in Krivsky. As long as he identifies Dunn as the type of player that this organization needs to build around, he's ok by me.

SirFelixCat
02-08-2006, 04:06 PM
I think that he is a step in the right direction in a sense that he is not Beattie. Glass is half-full. :)

RedsManRick
02-08-2006, 04:11 PM
Glass half full indeed. Given some of the other names, I can definitely live with Krivsky (the Kriv?).

I'm curious where his involvement with the Twins was strongest. Specifically was he was involved with the Pierzynski for Nathan, Liriano, and Bosner deal. If that's not THE perfect example of leveraging a young player at peak value, I don't know what is.

Matt700wlw
02-08-2006, 04:14 PM
Well...there's this from the press release...



While with the Twins Krivsky assisted Ryan in negotiating contracts for Major League players, including salary arbitration cases and multi-year deals. He helped negotiate multi-year contracts for Twins stars Torii Hunter, Joe Mays, Corey Koskie, Jacque Jones and Shannon Stewart. Krivsky also worked on Brad Radke’s first multi-year deal.

...Adam Dunn anyone...??

Crash Davis
02-08-2006, 04:20 PM
:beerme:

My pick all along. Hal's report had me hanging my head yesterday, but this is fantastic news as far as I'm concerned.

You can't argue with the work he's done getting grade A young talent in Minnesota on a shoe string budget. He's not overly saberific, but he's a smart cookie. I'm sure he'll balance both viewpoints, and he should still have Kullman around for numbers analysis...and Beattie around as the experienced voice. He can play the Theo role -- balancing analysis from the grizzled old front office veterans on one hand with the analysis of the old and new moneyball acolytes on the other.

Great googly moogly! First, he fires DanO. Then he hires Krivsky. "I can see clearly now, the rain is gone..." Color me convinced about Castellini.

RFS62
02-08-2006, 04:23 PM
I thought it would be Wren, but I'm pretty happy with this pick.

What a difference since Castellini took control.

:beerme:

Crash Davis
02-08-2006, 04:36 PM
What a difference since Castellini took control.

:beerme:

RFS: first, good to be talking Reds when they do something positive. What's it been, three or four years? Seems like it anyway. What a drought of dismal baseball happenings for this franchise since the Griffey trade and Dunn arrival.

Second, you're right. What a difference Castellini has made! The most impressive thing about this hire was the process. We're used to seeing the Reds follow the path of least resistance. The O'Brien hiring process was a joke. "You have a whole binder showing ways in which we could save money?! In that case, here, the job is yours."

I'm convinced about Castellini now. Under the Lindner-Allen regime, I would have had every reason to suspect that the process was a sham and Kullman or Beattie would take over since it's easier just to go with the devil you know...

It's almost like the Lindner front office never had enough confidence in their own baseball business acumen to go out and find the right man, so they just had a couple of guys in and staged a mock major league GM search. They played it safe.

It's refreshing to see action rather than reaction out of the Reds ownership.

Matt700wlw
02-08-2006, 04:40 PM
I continue to applaud Mr. Castellini.

This no bull crap approach he uses is going to pay off for this organization.

Red Leader
02-08-2006, 04:41 PM
It would appear that our prayers over the last 3-4 years (at least) have been answered.

acredsfan
02-08-2006, 04:42 PM
That makes more sense than Hal's drivel this morning. It's time that guy retires. My sources are more accurate than his.Reading Hals article it seems like he orginally stated that it was according to sources that Beattie would be hired, but then he kept saying later on that that it was kinda speculation by the souces because Mr. Cast. said he wanted to hire someone with previous GM experience... I'm not defending Hal, that seemed to be an article you would expect from a less experienced reporter just trying to break a big story and get a little credit if it his guess was right. Hal on the other hand should not be taking risks like that, he is an experienced reporter who should know better. Hal is a highly respected reporter and doesn't have to take risks, that just makes him look even worse when he is wrong.

WMR
02-08-2006, 04:42 PM
I love it. Wonder if Krivsky will spend an hour thanking every positive influence in his life since the 2nd grade or if he'll be content to get to work?

RFS62
02-08-2006, 04:43 PM
RFS: first, good to be talking Reds when they do something positive.

It's refreshing to see action rather than reaction out of the Reds ownership.


No kidding. Decisive action, due diligence with a respectable field of candidates, no excuses, and look at how it's playing in Reds Nation. Hope. How long has it been?

I'm freakin' hopeful now.

red-in-la
02-08-2006, 04:51 PM
Any of you guys who are archive prone, could you please find THE thread that had DanO's annoucement in it. I ask because reading this thread brought back some SERIOUS deja-vu for me.

GriffeyFan
02-08-2006, 04:54 PM
I can live with this pick. I wanted this guy 3 years ago. It's a relief that it's not Beattie (whom ESPN was announcing was reportedly hired all morning long).

Team Clark
02-08-2006, 04:55 PM
Great call. Totally support the move. Krivsky has a good track record and comes from a comparable market. All good things come to those who wait.

Sea Ray
02-08-2006, 05:06 PM
I see they're going to have a 6pm news conference to announce this. Anyone know if a TV station will carry this live?

StillFunkyB
02-08-2006, 05:09 PM
I'm happy. I don't know enough about the candidates to really say one way or the other, but I am happy it wasn't Beattie.

knuckler
02-08-2006, 05:10 PM
Somebody please tell me Krivsky wasn't involved in the signing of Juan Castro for a starting role:help:

In all seriousness, I'm looking forward to learning more about Krivsky over the next day or two and at this point it seems like a solid pick. Although if it works out well, does it validate John Allen, who reportedly picked him over O'Brien two years ago?

Chip R
02-08-2006, 05:12 PM
Any of you guys who are archive prone, could you please find THE thread that had DanO's annoucement in it. I ask because reading this thread brought back some SERIOUS deja-vu for me.

I just looked in the archives and it's not there.

Sea Ray
02-08-2006, 05:12 PM
Somebody please tell me Krivsky wasn't involved in the signing of Juan Castro for a starting role:help:

In all seriousness, I'm looking forward to learning more about Krivsky over the next day or two and at this point it seems like a solid pick. Although if it works out well, does it validate John Allen, who reportedly picked him over O'Brien two years ago?

Nah. All that would say is Allen knows more about baseball than Lindner does. :rolleyes:

Aronchis
02-08-2006, 05:13 PM
Somebody please tell me Krivsky wasn't involved in the signing of Juan Castro for a starting role:help:

In all seriousness, I'm looking forward to learning more about Krivsky over the next day or two and at this point it seems like a solid pick. Although if it works out well, does it validate John Allen, who reportedly picked him over O'Brien two years ago?


Yes, he brought in Juan Castro. Krivsky is a BIG proponent of defense. That should tell you something where we are headed and the changes that will have to be made.

MWM
02-08-2006, 05:16 PM
Yes, he brought in Juan Castro. Krivsky is a BIG proponent of defense. That should tell you something where we are headed and the changes that will have to be made.

But Castro isn't really a plus defender. He has no range. But I'm sure one of Wayne's first priorities will be to fix the defense. It must be done.

membengal
02-08-2006, 05:32 PM
Another good day.

Cast is two for two. Hopes continue to be raised. Bless him.

jmcclain19
02-08-2006, 05:33 PM
Heh

I just went and bought www.firewaynekrivsky.com

Just in case

:devil:

Sea Ray
02-08-2006, 05:34 PM
Yes, he brought in Juan Castro. Krivsky is a BIG proponent of defense. That should tell you something where we are headed and the changes that will have to be made.

Wow. If he's a big proponent of defense then he's going to be sniffing glue by the end of this season...

Caveat Emperor
02-08-2006, 05:36 PM
I'm excited to finally get the new show rolling with new people.

I'm troubled that Krivsky has been unable to put the Twins over the hump as an assistant GM, troubled by the fact he has been "rumored" for many different jobs but never actually landed one and, as with all non-guys-in-charge, troubled by the fact that we have no way of knowing how much he actually contributed to the success/failures of the Twins during his tenure there.

But, I'm pleased that Castellini acted decisively and pleased that the interview process seems to have gone off in a straightforward manner. This has reflected well on the entire ballclub, unlike some recent hiring moves made under previous regimes.

I'm cautiously optomistic about the situation (not out and out happy, as I would've been with some other GM decisions) and excited to finally see a new take on the development of this franchise. Clearly Krivsky said things in his interview that resonated with Castellini's prior statements of the club wanting to win right away. The mere thought of that, by itself, is enough to get any Reds fan warmed to the stiuation

Now, we wait and see what this new guy is like.

traderumor
02-08-2006, 05:44 PM
Wow. If he's a big proponent of defense then he's going to be sniffing glue by the end of this season...Guess he picked the wrong year to quit sniffing glue :laugh:

KronoRed
02-08-2006, 06:00 PM
Heh

I just went and bought www.firewaynekrivsky.com

Just in case

:devil:
Well done Josh :laugh:

Chip R
02-08-2006, 06:15 PM
Heh

I just went and bought www.firewaynekrivsky.com (http://www.firewaynekrivsky.com)

Just in case

:devil:

Good thing you didn't wait till the Christmas rush. ;)

PickOff
02-08-2006, 06:32 PM
I can definitely live with Krivsky (the Kriv?).


I'm for Waynesky, and of course the front office will now be dubbed Wayne's World.

The_jbh
02-08-2006, 06:38 PM
Great pick, should have been the pick a couple of years ago but better late than never...

It will be interesting what Krivsky brings to the table. Didn't the twins like Kearns a lot the past 2 years? Wily mo may be the guy he drops

Hopefully Dunn talks increase.

The big question is what is Krivsky gonna do with Narron? My guess Narron stays...

Matt700wlw
02-08-2006, 06:39 PM
I'm troubled that Krivsky has been unable to put the Twins over the hump as an assistant GM, troubled by the fact he has been "rumored" for many different jobs but never actually landed one and, as with all non-guys-in-charge, troubled by the fact that we have no way of knowing how much he actually contributed to the success/failures of the Twins during his tenure there.

.

I'm comparing two different worlds here, but Marvin Lewis had been rumored to a lot of jobs for several years too before Mike Brown rolled the dice and finally gave him his shot, although he had been successful as a position coach/coordinator in the past.

I have faith in Castellini and his decisions until proven otherwise.

KronoRed
02-08-2006, 06:39 PM
I think Narron stays for now.

PickOff
02-08-2006, 06:41 PM
I think Narron stays for now.

Short leash, very short, I hope.

Chip R
02-08-2006, 06:51 PM
I'm for Waynesky, and of course the front office will now be dubbed Wayne's World.

And all his fans should be called Wayniacs.

RFS62
02-08-2006, 06:53 PM
I hope he breaks bad like Waynezilla and cleans house.

RBA
02-08-2006, 06:54 PM
Dave Letterman, "Krivsky, Krusty....Krusty, Krivsky"

RFS62
02-08-2006, 06:55 PM
Dave Letterman, "Krivsky, Krusty....Krusty, Krivsky"




:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Joseph
02-08-2006, 07:25 PM
Krivsky said today he wasn’t worried about payroll.

“You’re not going to hear me talk to much about payroll,” he said. “It’s how you spend it, not how much.”

RedsBaron
02-08-2006, 07:25 PM
I'm pleased. Krivsky sounds like a good choice, better than many of the alternatives being considered. I do hope Kullman stays with the Reds.

RedsManRick
02-08-2006, 07:30 PM
Krivsky said today he wasn’t worried about payroll.

“You’re not going to hear me talk to much about payroll,” he said. “It’s how you spend it, not how much.”

Refreshing. Of course, you have to consider where he's coming from. Carl Pohland makes Carl Lindner look like free spender. With Castinelli at the helm, Krivsky has way more wiggle room than he's ever had before.

Topcat
02-08-2006, 07:46 PM
Fantastic News, dare I say Reds Fans can now become Optimistic?

StillFunkyB
02-08-2006, 07:58 PM
Fantastic News, dare I say Reds Fans can now become Optimistic?

Slow your roll......all the Reds have done is picked their face up out the mud. There's a long way to go..... :)

Sea Ray
02-08-2006, 07:59 PM
Short leash, very short, I hope.

Why the short leash? What do you expect him to accomplish given the 25 players he's likely to start the season with? I think all we can ask of Narron is not to have a total meltdown like we had with Dave Miley. There's not much Narron can do with this crowd.

Right now the tea leaves point to Narron surviving the year and then who knows. I think they'd love to bring back Lou but the Yankees job may very well open up by then too.

PressBox
02-08-2006, 08:06 PM
The best thing I like about this hire - and I like this hire A LOT - is that Castellini didn't hire one of his buddies from previous experience in MLB. Castellini gets big character points for this hire. This shows me that he really does want the right person in the right job.

pedro
02-08-2006, 08:09 PM
Why the short leash? What do you expect him to accomplish given the 25 players he's likely to start the season with? I think all we can ask of Narron is not to have a total meltdown like we had with Dave Miley. There's not much Narron can do with this crowd.

Right now the tea leaves point to Narron surviving the year and then who knows. I think they'd love to bring back Lou but the Yankees job may very well open up by then too.


I expect him to accomplish not playing Aurilia and Womack everyday unless the Reds have injuries. I have generally not had a problem with Narron and agree that he is much better than Miley, but a few of his comments concerning the 3B job have me worried.

cincinnati chili
02-08-2006, 08:27 PM
Specifically was he was involved with the Pierzynski for Nathan, Liriano, and Bosner deal. If that's not THE perfect example of leveraging a young player at peak value, I don't know what is.

He was almost certainly "involved" in the deal.

The Twins have a very interesting division of labor. Krivsky negotiates most of the contracts AND scouts the National League. One of the other assistants scouted the American League.

Krivsky would probably never take credit. But, you can almost certainly bet that Krivsky had some influence in telling Terry Ryan, 'THESE are the guys you want if you make a trade with the Giants.'

PickOff
02-08-2006, 08:43 PM
Why the short leash? What do you expect him to accomplish given the 25 players he's likely to start the season with? I think all we can ask of Narron is not to have a total meltdown like we had with Dave Miley. There's not much Narron can do with this crowd.

Right now the tea leaves point to Narron surviving the year and then who knows. I think they'd love to bring back Lou but the Yankees job may very well open up by then too.

Like Pedro said above, I'm concerned that he is going to give Womack and Aurilia undeserved playing time. Now, he has got to play to win as long as we have a chance to stay in contention, but I'm concerned as well about his comments. I'm also not too sure about his lineups and handling of the pitching staff. Narron has never had success as a manager, and if his decisions are poor and he is unable to work with what he has and mold a good team concept, then I would like the GM to pull the plug and move on before the team gets too down on itself and furthers the cycle of losing. Narron can make all the right decisions and we can still have a losing record if our pitchers don't have career years, and I won't hold that against him, but he needs to show us something - he needs to "win" his position and not have it "handed to him."

KronoRed
02-08-2006, 08:53 PM
/\
Exactly.

If he runs the vet squad out there 5 out of 7 days a week then I want him shot out of a canon pronto.

Betterread
02-08-2006, 08:54 PM
I have a good opinion of Krivsky. There were a few good candidates but I like the decision.

Jesus Freak
02-08-2006, 09:02 PM
I'm for Waynesky, and of course the front office will now be dubbed Wayne's World.

How about "Krivsky Creme" in honor of Danny Graves and his Kripsy Creme adiction.

PickOff
02-08-2006, 09:44 PM
How about "Krivsky Creme" in honor of Danny Graves and his Kripsy Creme adiction.

Danny Graves....BOOOO....BOOOOO I like where your head's at, though it is a little hard to say three times fast.

Yachtzee
02-08-2006, 10:18 PM
How about "Krivsky Creme"...

I think that's on the list of banned substances. :evil:

I'm glad the Reds went with Krivsky. My biggest concern was that they would go with a GM who had been given a shot elsewhere and failed to take the team far. I like the idea of giving someone who has had success as an assistant GM a shot. It just seem like a person like that is more likely to think outside the box, which I think is necessary for a team like the Reds.

Oops. Just hit 1000 posts. I was going to hold off and post something really cool and inciteful. Oh well, welcome Mr. Krivsky.

Bill
02-08-2006, 10:47 PM
1st big step in one of many needed to return this organization to their former respectability.

So far so good and that's been a long time.

paulrichjr
02-08-2006, 10:50 PM
I usually like to be positive and while I have stated in the past that I wished the Reds would have hired Krivsky over DanO I must say one major thing leaps out at me on this hire. One thing sticks out that makes it seem seriously bad. That one thing is the fact that it appears Allen had a part in making this hire or Allen was listened to by Cast. I loathe the fact that Allen is here more than if DanO was still here. In my opinion the man has caused more problems than JimBo and DanO combined and I for one do not feel good about the fact that Cast took some direction from Allen.

CincyRedsFan30
02-08-2006, 11:00 PM
I don't think Allen was a major factor in Bob's decision. I think he can some input, but not a great deal of it. He was invovled with scheduling the interviews and he was obviously present for the interviews, but it's pretty clear that Krivsky was hired because Bob ultimately thought he would be the right one to hire. He not only liked his interviews, but he said he connected with him in terms of his vision and strategy for reaching that vision. I don't think John Allen was even close to a driving force behind this hiring.

TheBigLebowski
02-08-2006, 11:03 PM
I'm very happy with this hire.

Very happy with the new ownership.

I am realistic, and I realize we may not win a lot this year...but, at least I finally feel *good* about the management and ownership of the franchise.

Heck..maybe Krivs will pull off a nice deal before the season. If that happens, I might just be downright excited!

REDREAD
02-08-2006, 11:11 PM
In Although if it works out well, does it validate John Allen, who reportedly picked him over O'Brien two years ago?

No, it doesn't validate Allen. Allen claimed after the fact that he wanted Krivisky. If Allen truly thought Krivisky was better than DanO, he should've convinced Lindner. In truth, Allen is so worried about counting beans, I really don't think he cares about winning or who the gm is (as long as it's not Bowden).

Allen's support for Krivisky 3 years ago was either tepid or Allen didn't have the guts to make his case. Either way, Allen has no right to say "I told you so" if Krivisky works out. Thank God Allen has been booted out of the position of COO.

pedro
02-08-2006, 11:17 PM
I'm looking forward to finding out how good a GM Krivsky is going to be. At least this time there's hope.

And to give Allen some sort of credit, if Krivsky does work out, I sure won't count it against him. Allen's never been my favorite, and the way he handled the end of Larkin's career will always piss me off, but I've always been of teh opinion that O'Brien was way more dangerous than Allen.

REDREAD
02-08-2006, 11:17 PM
I for one do not feel good about the fact that Cast took some direction from Allen.

Well, since one of Cast's first actions was to remove Allen from COO, I have hope that Allen has no more say in anything baseball related. I have hope that Allen is strictly a bean counter now and we never here another quote in the paper from Allen again. I also hope Allen never has any input into any baseball hire or baseball decision again.

And I hope Cast overrules Allen when Allen doesn't want to fund the draft. Hopefully Cast sets the budget instead of Allen.

Reds4Life
02-08-2006, 11:22 PM
Well, since one of Cast's first actions was to remove Allen from COO, I have hope that Allen has no more say in anything baseball related. I have hope that Allen is strictly a bean counter now and we never here another quote in the paper from Allen again. I also hope Allen never has any input into any baseball hire or baseball decision again.

And I hope Cast overrules Allen when Allen doesn't want to fund the draft. Hopefully Cast sets the budget instead of Allen.

Allen wasn't removed as COO, he remains in that position, his duties were just modified.

WVRedsFan
02-08-2006, 11:42 PM
Well, since one of Cast's first actions was to remove Allen from COO, I have hope that Allen has no more say in anything baseball related. I have hope that Allen is strictly a bean counter now and we never here another quote in the paper from Allen again. I also hope Allen never has any input into any baseball hire or baseball decision again.

And I hope Cast overrules Allen when Allen doesn't want to fund the draft. Hopefully Cast sets the budget instead of Allen.

As Reds4Life correctly stated, Allen is still the COO for now.

The reason I say that is I do not believe Allen will be around much longer either. Castillini seems like a guy who will be in charge no matter what. And I imagine that he will buck Allen on some decisions. After having that power for so long, it will probably pain Allen to give it up. My prediction? Allen will resign by April.

KronoRed
02-09-2006, 12:05 AM
Oops. Just hit 1000 posts. I was going to hold off and post something really cool and inciteful. Oh well, welcome Mr. Krivsky.
Congrats :D

marcshoe
02-09-2006, 12:24 AM
It'll be interesting to see how long it takes to make his mark. Any trades before the season? Any immediate attempts to help the pitching? Will he start agressively shopping Wily Mo?

His first draft should be interesting too.

One thing disappoint me; back when he was a candidate before, I remember someone posting that he had a walrus moustache. And now I see the picture in the Enquirer and he's clean shaven.

I'm very disappointed. :D

Krusty
02-09-2006, 12:43 AM
More importantly, will Castanelli allow Krivsky to hire his own baseball people or will he be stuck with O'Brien's hires till their contracts expire?

His former boss Twins GM Terry Ryan said on MLB 175 that he will be successful if he is surrounded with solid people. What if he wants to hire his own assistant GM or scouting director? Will Castanelli eat a few more contracts to get the job done?

WVPacman
02-09-2006, 12:52 AM
Was Krivsky the one that turned the Twins team into a playoff team??

Crash Davis
02-09-2006, 01:12 AM
Fox Sports' Ken Rosenthal on the Krivsky hire:
http://foxsports.foxnews.com/mlb/story/5317510

The Reds' role model is 220 miles northeast of Cincinnati, playing in the same state and a similar market. The Indians rebuilt by improving their farm system and trading for younger, cheaper players. New Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky should follow their example, and his hiring is an indication that new owner Bob Castellini is willing to take the bold and painful steps necessary to revive the franchise.

Krivsky, 51, spent the past 10 years with the Twins, a low-revenue club even more accomplished than the Indians. He nearly got the Reds' job two years ago, but former owner Carl Lindner hired Dan O'Brien, a GM who was too deliberate, too conservative, the very opposite of the creative, charismatic, cutting-edge leader that the Reds need.

Like new Dodgers GM Ned Colletti, Krivsky isn't some young hotshot with a laptop, but a baseball lifer who spent years — no, decades — preparing for this moment. The Twins' front office was an ideal training ground for his new challenge. Under GM Terry Ryan, the Twins succeeded in all the areas where the Reds have failed in recent years. Player development. Payroll management. Trades.

Krivsky, a skilled contract negotiator, knows the Reds well, having scouted them extensively as the Twins' assistant GM. He does not lack for opinions. He will not shy from tough decisions. And while he offered the usual optimistic talk at his introductory news conference, he surely understands that the rebuilding process won't be easy.

The Twins went through it, the A's went through it and, most recently, the Indians went through it, too. The solution for the Reds is not a series of short-sighted, headline-grabbing moves that might appease a fan base frustrated with five straight losing seasons. No, the solution is to start over. The Reds are so pitching-thin, both in the majors and upper minors, that they're not going to compete in the NL Central anytime soon.

The timing of Krivsky's hiring puts him at a disadvantage — he probably won't be able to hire his own advisors until after the season. But between now and the July 31 non-waiver deadline — or at the very least, over the next year — Krivsky should trade first baseman Adam Dunn, center fielder Ken Griffey Jr. and every other high-priced part possible. The Astros, deep in young pitching, have long coveted Dunn, who is a free agent after the 2007 season. The return for Griffey wouldn't be nearly as significant, but the Reds would gain increased payroll flexibility.

The only players the Reds should sign long-term are up-and-comers who would agree to club-friendly deals — shortstop Felipe Lopez and perhaps outfielder Wily Mo Pena would qualify. Castellini surely doesn't want to move a slugger like Dunn in one of his first acts as owner, but the most farsighted moves often are the least understood. Indians fans hated the trade of right-hander Bartolo Colon to the Expos in June 2002. But the Tribe's bounty included center fielder Grady Sizemore and left-hander Cliff Lee, rare commodities that they could control for at least six years.

Indians GM Mark Shapiro made three other lopsided trades in a six-month period, acquiring first baseman Ben Broussard, outfielder Coco Crisp and designated hitter Travis Hafner. The Reds don't have as many quality prospects as the Indians did then — there is no C.C. Sabathia, Victor Martinez or Jhonny Peralta in their farm system. But Dunn is a chip every bit as valuable as Colon was in ‘02.

For further inspiration, Krivsky can cite his own experience with the Twins in the late 1990s. Second baseman Chuck Knoblauch was the Twins' Colon, helping the team land shortstop Cristian Guzman and left-hander Eric Milton. Like Shapiro, Ryan also made terrific deals on the margins, giving up little for right-hander Joe Mays, designated hitter David Ortiz and outfielder Lew Ford. The farm system spit out right-hander Brad Radke, center fielder Torii Hunter and others, and nearly a decade later, it remains one of the most productive in the game.

The Reds boast a proud history, a devoted fan base and a relatively new ballpark. O'Brien, the former GM, was correct in his belief that a turnaround will take time, but too passive in his approach. The most successful low-revenue teams combine patience and aggressiveness, constantly shuffling players in search of the greatest possible value. The Indians' recent trade of Crisp for a package headed by third-base prospect Andy Marte was an example of such forward thinking. The Reds' signing of Milton as a free agent a year ago was not.

Krivsky, a graduate of both Duke and the Terry Ryan Finishing School, is smart enough to understand the difference. If he does his job well, his transformation of the Reds initially will make fans confused, even angry. At times, it might even look like outright surrender. But that's OK, because the no-pain, no-gain concept applies. As the Indians' Shapiro can attest, the less popular Krivsky is in his first year, the better off the franchise might be.

Ken Rosenthal is FOXSports.com's senior baseball writer.

pedro
02-09-2006, 01:56 AM
Suggesting that the Reds should trade everbody is probably the most original idea Rosenthal has ever had. i'm actually surpised.

RedsManRick
02-09-2006, 02:16 AM
First move: Waynesky cuts Tony Womack
2nd move: Castinelli gaurentee's Waynesky's 3rd year.

Jpup
02-09-2006, 05:26 AM
Suggesting that the Reds should trade everbody is probably the most original idea Rosenthal has ever had. i'm actually surpised.

original, yes. smart? no.

Why would anyone trade Adam Dunn unless they were going to get a haul? I wouldn't trade him for Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore ever. If the Reds can get a Johan Santana, Mark Prior, or maybe a Jake Peavy, then I would consider it. For anyone else, it would be a mistake unless Dunn has let it be known that he wants out. Try to sign him long term, if he doesn't agree, then trade him. I think Krivsky can make that decision before the All-Star break, but he has to get a bunch of young talented pitching in return.

I would be open to trading everyone except Lopez, Dunn, and Harang. Those are the 3 guys that the Reds must build around. Most of the people that suggest trading Adam Dunn do not understand his value.

RedsBaron
02-09-2006, 06:34 AM
While no one should absolutely be untouchable, the Reds generally should only keep those players who are likely to help them win in, say, 2008 or 2009, because it will probably take at least that long to turn things around. However, Adam Dunn is only 26 years old. He should still be in his prime in 2008-09. If the Reds can sign him to a long term deal, they should do so.

TeamCasey
02-09-2006, 07:22 AM
Great pick, should have been the pick a couple of years ago but better late than never......

I don't think it would have made a difference a couple years ago with that hierarchy.

Roy Tucker
02-09-2006, 07:32 AM
For a refresher on the Cleveland plan (the article was written in 2003), see http://www.cleveland.com/gameplan/

osuceltic
02-09-2006, 08:42 AM
Rosenthal is exactly right. Every word.

Red Leader
02-09-2006, 10:10 AM
While no one should absolutely be untouchable, the Reds generally should only keep those players who are likely to help them win in, say, 2008 or 2009, because it will probably take at least that long to turn things around. However, Adam Dunn is only 26 years old. He should still be in his prime in 2008-09. If the Reds can sign him to a long term deal, they should do so.

They have less than a week until Adam's arbitration date. They need to try and sign him through 2010 at a reasonable contract, otherwise, I think they almost have to deal him at the deadline. This franchise cannot be run effectively with a player taking up such a huge chunk of the payroll. Especially when other bad contracts exist like Eric Milton's, and Jr's. I also think Jason LaRue needs to be moved at the deadline as he is getting up there in salary and won't be "in his prime" when 2009-2010 rolls around.

Felipe is one player I'd look to sign long term. Harang, maybe to keep costs down should get a 2 yr deal with an option year, but I don't think you can bank on him getting better through 2010.

Rosenthal is correct. It is time to dismantle what isn't working. Completely. Re-load and do it right.

KronoRed
02-09-2006, 10:14 AM
Suggesting that the Reds should trade everbody is probably the most original idea Rosenthal has ever had. i'm actually surpised.
Agreed.

Trading everyone is the best and fastest approach to rebuilding, before we are forced to trade Dunn and we get garbage.

I'd also trade Lopez, I'm still a bit skeptical on him due to his 1 big year and his agent probably making a long term deal near impossible.

Krusty
02-09-2006, 10:25 AM
original, yes. smart? no.

Why would anyone trade Adam Dunn unless they were going to get a haul? I wouldn't trade him for Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore ever. If the Reds can get a Johan Santana, Mark Prior, or maybe a Jake Peavy, then I would consider it. For anyone else, it would be a mistake unless Dunn has let it be known that he wants out. Try to sign him long term, if he doesn't agree, then trade him. I think Krivsky can make that decision before the All-Star break, but he has to get a bunch of young talented pitching in return.

I would be open to trading everyone except Lopez, Dunn, and Harang. Those are the 3 guys that the Reds must build around. Most of the people that suggest trading Adam Dunn do not understand his value.

Dunn is the most marketable player for the Reds and would bring in three prospects that would have an impact on this club down the road. Trading Junior too would gain payroll flexibility even if it means eating half of his contract.

Things might get ugly in the short term. But if it means long term success, then the Reds bite the bullet and finally do this rebuilding process right.

flyer85
02-09-2006, 10:31 AM
I will know Krivsky is serious when I see Womack released and I am doubting it will happen. Womack is a worthless player and Narron shouldn't even have the opportunity to play him when their are better young alternatives like Olmedo or Bergolla.

RedsManRick
02-09-2006, 10:34 AM
If Dunn does not sign a long term deal, if the Reds are clearly out of the race, and if Votto is showing real signs of life, I can't see Dunn ending the season a Red.

The reason the Indians are successful is because they were decisive. They made many moves in conjunction such that they would have a confluence of reasonably priced talent in 2005 and beyond. I don't want to see Dunner go, but if we only have him at market price, then it's not an efficiency gain for us. You do need a certain level of talent, period, but the fact is that you can't reach that level of talent paying market level prices to 25 guys unless you're the Red Sox, Mets, Angels, Dodgers, or Yankees.

If you can turn Dunn in to say, Ervin Santana and Howie Kendrick, or something of that sort (similar to the Colon to the expos deal), and you know he's gonna cost 20% of our payroll to keep here for the next 5 years, you have to do it.

It will be interesting as nobody now has to cover their own behind in keeping players on board. You don't have to defend previous decisions or indecisions. I'm looking forward to the next few months.

Krusty
02-09-2006, 10:44 AM
If Dunn does not sign a long term deal, if the Reds are clearly out of the race, and if Votto is showing real signs of life, I can't see Dunn ending the season a Red.

The reason the Indians are successful is because they were decisive. They made many moves in conjunction such that they would have a confluence of reasonably priced talent in 2005 and beyond. I don't want to see Dunner go, but if we only have him at market price, then it's not an efficiency gain for us. You do need a certain level of talent, period, but the fact is that you can't reach that level of talent paying market level prices to 25 guys unless you're the Red Sox, Mets, Angels, Dodgers, or Yankees.

If you can turn Dunn in to say, Ervin Santana and Howie Kendrick, or something of that sort (similar to the Colon to the expos deal), and you know he's gonna cost 20% of our payroll to keep here for the next 5 years, you have to do it.

It will be interesting as nobody now has to cover their own behind in keeping players on board. You don't have to defend previous decisions or indecisions. I'm looking forward to the next few months.

I was thinking the same thing....Dunn to the Angels. Angels need a power hitter and their farm system is loaded. If you could get Casey Kotchman (the Reds need someone to play lst base), RHP Ervin Santana and either Brandon Wood (shortstop), Aybar (shortstop) or Kendrick (second baseman), it would give young talent to start the rebuilding process while waiting for the lower level prospects move up through the system. Plus, it gives the club payroll flexibility to make other moves considering what Dunn will cost the Reds the next two years.

Marge'sMullet
02-09-2006, 10:51 AM
As Reds4Life correctly stated, Allen is still the COO for now.

The reason I say that is I do not believe Allen will be around much longer either. Castillini seems like a guy who will be in charge no matter what. And I imagine that he will buck Allen on some decisions. After having that power for so long, it will probably pain Allen to give it up. My prediction? Allen will resign by April.

I totally agree, and when I was listening to Bob's first press conference naming him the new owner something caught my attention. I was trying to read between the lines, and what I was thinking was that he is going to take over control of the business side of the ball team once he understood what goes on.

What he said was something to the fact that, "he was going to make it his office and wanted to knew all the in's and out's of the day to day operations". Then yesterday when he handed Krivsky the baseball he said he was in control of the baseball side of the operation.

IMO, Allen won't be here long. Bob will handle the business side of our REDS.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 10:54 AM
I will know Krivsky is serious when I see Womack released and I am doubting it will happen. Womack is a worthless player and Narron shouldn't even have the opportunity to play him when their are better young alternatives like Olmedo or Bergolla.
Womack will be given ST at least, all the wringing hands about him being the first cut is useless at this time. The Reds should (and will) allow him to try and make the team and in case he does cut his own throat then I don't expect they'll let him bleed all over the clubhouse.

But the fact is they'll let him do it himself, that's the nature of the game and the dynamic is to let the vets have a chance to try and pull their heads out of their rear (which I don't think is possible) But it's easier to cut a failing player than it is a guy working out prior to ST (and if all the stars align said player could turn into a chip)

Another thing... if I have to read Dunn to the Angels wishes in every thread I'll scream.

It will never happen.

flyer85
02-09-2006, 11:00 AM
But the fact is they'll let him do it himself... the fact is that bad players can have good springs. He shouldn't even be given the opportunity because we all know what the end result will be. Reminds me of when the "Donut King" and Manzanillo made the team out of ST.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 11:10 AM
... the fact is that bad players can have good springs. And good GM's flip said players for something.

Bad one's give them a roster spot and talk the manager into playing them at SS.

It's a people business and the players are all watching each others backs, usually they let the players play themselves off the roster in ST.

flyer85
02-09-2006, 11:15 AM
And good GM's flip said players for something.only if there is a corresponding GM dumb enough to take 'em. DanO is no longer a GM.

KronoRed
02-09-2006, 11:16 AM
Bad one's give them a roster spot and talk the manager into playing them at SS.

Wonder if that's ever happened around here :evil:

Red Leader
02-09-2006, 11:18 AM
Womack will be given ST at least, all the wringing hands about him being the first cut is useless at this time. The Reds should (and will) allow him to try and make the team and in case he does cut his own throat then I don't expect they'll let him bleed all over the clubhouse.

But the fact is they'll let him do it himself, that's the nature of the game and the dynamic is to let the vets have a chance to try and pull their heads out of their rear (which I don't think is possible) But it's easier to cut a failing player than it is a guy working out prior to ST (and if all the stars align said player could turn into a chip)

Another thing... if I have to read Dunn to the Angels wishes in every thread I'll scream.

It will never happen.

I agree that's what will happen, but I don't think that's what should happen. We all know that Tony Womack being on this team is not a good thing. If he has a good spring he may end up earning playing time that he doesn't deserve and take an opportunity away from a younger player trying to gain experience. On a rebuilding team? Doesn't make sense to me. I would think that a GM that knows that he's facing a major rebuilding project, would do his best to make sure that kind of thing didn't happen.

traderumor
02-09-2006, 11:18 AM
Dunn is going to be signed long-term. It might not happen in the spring, but I just can't imagine that the owners and Krivsky don't see him as a cornerstone to winning in the near term by being here, not as a trading chip. And I think the reasons that Dunn would not have signed have left the building.

traderumor
02-09-2006, 11:20 AM
I agree that's what will happen, but I don't think that's what should happen. We all know that Tony Womack being on this team is not a good thing. If he has a good spring he may end up earning playing time that he doesn't deserve and take an opportunity away from a younger player trying to gain experience. On a rebuilding team? Doesn't make sense to me. I would think that a GM that knows that he's facing a major rebuilding project, would do his best to make sure that kind of thing didn't happen.
Tony Womack is not a problem anymore than Bill the Janitor leaving a ring in the toilet is going to take down the entire company.

flyer85
02-09-2006, 11:21 AM
I agree that's what will happen, but I don't think that's what should happen. We all know that Tony Womack being on this team is not a good thing. If he has a good spring he may end up earning playing time that he doesn't deserve and take an opportunity away from a younger player trying to gain experience. On a rebuilding team? Doesn't make sense to me. I would think that a GM that knows that he's facing a major rebuilding project, would do his best to make sure that kind of thing didn't happen.same can be said to giving innings to Paul Wilson. I would rather see a young guy like Belisle, Germano, etc given the 5th starter. There is no upside or long term payoff to sending Paul Wilson out there.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 11:26 AM
There is no upside or long term payoff to sending Paul Wilson out there.True, but from a players perspective you have to let them cut their own throats. The other players will expect it, since they all can see themselves in the same position some day.

I don't advocate suffering through crappy performances during the saeson, but will endure them during ST if a point is being made.

flyer85
02-09-2006, 11:27 AM
Tony Womack is not a problem anymore than Bill the Janitor leaving a ring in the toilet is going to take down the entire company.That is true but wasting ABs on Womack is a symptom of an organization that is rather clueless on how to evaluate personnel. Even the Yankees figured out he belongs in the compost pile.

osuceltic
02-09-2006, 11:30 AM
Things might get ugly in the short term...

"Get ugly????" You mean things aren't ugly now?

traderumor
02-09-2006, 11:35 AM
That is true but wasting ABs on Womack is a symptom of an organization that is rather clueless on how to evaluate personnel. Even the Yankees figured out he belongs in the compost pile.

I understand that, but suggesting that Womack should be the first decision made is akin to being impressed if Castellini came in and fired a scout upon his arrival.

I can only imagine that Krivsky will look at the potential 25 man roster and feel like the fantasy/simulation manager that takes over the team that some dork dropped in the middle of last season and say "what in the world was this guy doing? Three second baseman, two of them old, bad fielding vets? Geesh!" :)

flyer85
02-09-2006, 11:49 AM
I understand that, but suggesting that Womack should be the first decision made is akin to being impressed if Castellini came in and fired a scout upon his arrival. This is about what I want. I want a sign from above they know what they're doing. Sacrificing Womack to appease the baseball gods :notworthy would do it for me.

RFS62
02-09-2006, 11:56 AM
Remember, the "we won't negotiate during the season" policy was a DanO rule.

We'll nail Adam down to a one year deal, or go to arbitration. Then we'll have the rest of the year to work out a long term solution, one way or another.

KronoRed
02-09-2006, 12:10 PM
This is about what I want. I want a sign from above they know what they're doing. Sacrificing Womack to appease the baseball gods :notworthy would do it for me.
A hanging on fountain square would work as well.

traderumor
02-09-2006, 12:44 PM
A hanging on fountain square would work as well.

http://www.abekat.net/images/angry_mob_01.gif

From the Sarasota Herald-Tribune (Spring Training Edition):

"Upon their arrival in town, Cincinnati Reds GM Wayne Krivsky and his able-bodied assistants search for Tony Womack, who fled on foot when told by Rick Stowe to gather his things." ;)

flyer85
02-09-2006, 12:50 PM
A hanging on fountain square would work as well.
off with his head.

membengal
02-09-2006, 01:43 PM
Another thing... if I have to read Dunn to the Angels wishes in every thread I'll scream.

It will never happen.

woy...sorry to ask for more here, but why? And I ask not because I disagree with you but because I am curious if that is a comment more about Dunn being unmovable (i.e. we should not move him no matter what) or the Angels being a bad trading partner if they do move him.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 01:54 PM
woy...sorry to ask for more here, but why? And I ask not because I disagree with you but because I am curious if that is a comment more about Dunn being unmovable (i.e. we should not move him no matter what) or the Angels being a bad trading partner if they do move him.

First off I don't think the Angel are the type of organization that will chase a high priced slugger who doesn't fit their MO and the way they have been approaching their offense (bat on ball skills first) and athleticism. Plus they have Vlad as the resident superstar.

Secondly prior to the season I doubt very highly that any team is going to part with 3 prospects for Dunn, needs are what drive the price up and prior to the season this late many teams aren't willing to chuck 3 major prospects.

It just seems like fodder of the highest order at this juncture.

membengal
02-09-2006, 03:35 PM
Thanks.

Yeah, that last part is where I land. Everyone seems to be looking for Krivsky to make a quick big splash, but now isn't the optimal time to be prying maximum high quality prospects out of anyone. IF they decide to deal Dunn at some point, they need to be damn sure to get a mint for him. I am at least confident now that we have a GM who understands how to do that.

In fact, I think the tenor of other team's conversations with the Reds will be 180 degrees different now. Before, with OB, I think they deliberately tried to fleece the team. With Krivsky, they will know that only serious offers will be entertained. Which makes me feel better already.

corkedbat
02-09-2006, 04:12 PM
Dunn is going to be signed long-term. It might not happen in the spring, but I just can't imagine that the owners and Krivsky don't see him as a cornerstone to winning in the near term by being here, not as a trading chip. And I think the reasons that Dunn would not have signed have left the building.

I want to see the Reds sign Dunn to a LTC also and I believe think the new powers-that be will do their utmost to get it done if possible, but I'm not entirelt sure I can agree that "the reasons that Dunn would not have signed have left the building".

I think that it is entirely with in the realm of possibility that Adam may want to fully leaverage his swing at Free Agency and/or harbors strong dreams of signing for big bucks with the Asstros and playing in front of his fellow Texans.

One thing that I hope is apparent to Castenelli, Krivsky and Co. is that this year's trade deadline is pretty-much decision time with Adam.

The closer he gets to open Free Agency the less you will get in return. I would like to see them decide what the flatout maximum is that they will offer AD and put a full court press on him until June or so. By then they should have a good idea of whether it is doable ( if not already done).

If optomism is not there, I think you have to work your best deal for Adam. This franchise and the effort to retool cannot afford to let an asset like Dunn just walk away for a draft choice or get a reduced return in the trade market. There are too few tradable commodities in this organization not to leverage your most attractive.

As I said, my first choice would be to sign AD, but I'm not that sure it is gonna happen.

RedsManRick
02-09-2006, 04:14 PM
First off I don't think the Angel are the type of organization that will chase a high priced slugger who doesn't fit their MO and the way they have been approaching their offense (bat on ball skills first) and athleticism. Plus they have Vlad as the resident superstar.

Secondly prior to the season I doubt very highly that any team is going to part with 3 prospects for Dunn, needs are what drive the price up and prior to the season this late many teams aren't willing to chuck 3 major prospects.

It just seems like fodder of the highest order at this juncture.

I agree that Dunn doesn't seem to fit the profile of the typical Angels player. That said, they seemed to be pretty happy with Troy Glaus before he got hurt. We also know that they pursued Manny, so it's not like they're averse to a weaking fielding LF. Of course Dunn doesn't have the added dimension of ethnic appeal and despite his hitting prowess is certainly no Manny Ramirez.

I think the Angels are actually one of the best fits for Dunn, but that's certainly not saying I expect him to end up there. If he were suddenly on the market, I imagine their name would come up as a potential suitor.

KronoRed
02-09-2006, 06:05 PM
http://www.abekat.net/images/angry_mob_01.gif

From the Sarasota Herald-Tribune (Spring Training Edition):

"Upon their arrival in town, Cincinnati Reds GM Wayne Krivsky and his able-bodied assistants search for Tony Womack, who fled on foot when told by Rick Stowe to gather his things." ;)
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

westofyou
02-09-2006, 08:08 PM
BTW Krivsky becomes the second Reds GM with a Rangers background (after Dan O) the prior 4 from Bergesch to Bowden were former Yankee employees, Wagner came from St. Louis but started with Detroit.

Howsam, DeWitt got their start in St. Louis under vastly different circumstances in different eras and different leagues.

Giles was a minor league GM and Gabe Paul was his Brad Kullman.

It's also quite possible that both Cook and Bergesch cut their teeth for the Yankees under Gabe Paul in the late 70's, whene Paul left as Yankee president Bergesch took over as Director of Scouting.... the guy who left the post was Pat Gillick.

GAC
02-09-2006, 08:21 PM
No, it doesn't validate Allen. Allen claimed after the fact that he wanted Krivisky. If Allen truly thought Krivisky was better than DanO, he should've convinced Lindner. In truth, Allen is so worried about counting beans, I really don't think he cares about winning or who the gm is (as long as it's not Bowden).

Allen's support for Krivisky 3 years ago was either tepid or Allen didn't have the guts to make his case. Either way, Allen has no right to say "I told you so" if Krivisky works out. Thank God Allen has been booted out of the position of COO.

And if Allen wanted Krivisky, then should we all be worried even more? ;)