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View Full Version : McCoy needs to address his "report"



kaldaniels
02-08-2006, 05:08 PM
I'm sorry to rant but I am disgusted by Hal McCoy's erroneous report on the next GM. Shouldn't he be held accountable for his story. Usually I don't put much stock in "reported" information, but his story had a certain "for sure" tone to it in my opinion. I know Hal is not the most liked reporter on here, but this is as bad as it gets in my opinion. However, he did manage to embarrass himself and DDN nationally, as many outlets picked up the story (punishment enough?)

guttle11
02-08-2006, 05:09 PM
He didn't name his sources. He technically wasn't wrong. he was "misguided.":rolleyes:

flyer85
02-08-2006, 05:11 PM
I guess Hal won't be buying his "source" dinner anytime soon. He got a story wrong and ends up with egg on his face. Gammons gets stuff wrong consistently. I chuckle at it but it doesn't bother me that much.

As far as the DDN, it isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

savafan
02-08-2006, 05:13 PM
Hal's source was Jim Beattie.

J/K, I can't back that up.

Sea Ray
02-08-2006, 05:18 PM
The problem is this isn't the first time Hal has been wrong. I've written him personally asking him to correct his inaccurate reporting in the past and he doesn't even return "those" e-mails let alone correct his misstatements. The sad truth is Hal's time has passed him by. He's had some serious health issues and very few stay in the game as long as he has. It's time for him to retire. It's getting ugly. I hate seeing him do this to himself.

He was "losing" credibility with me before this snafu but now this is the last straw. I won't believe another rumor he throws out there. When a writer loses credibility then it's over for him.

If he has any marbles left he will address why he was so wrong and not just write a one line joke about it. He makes Gammons look like a prophet.

RedsManRick
02-08-2006, 05:19 PM
This is a great example of why I can't stand the national news media. There should be some law about secondary sourcing. ESPN picks up on a local report and the headline becomes "Beattie to be named Reds GM" instead of "The DDN reports the Reds are leaning towards Beattie". I'm sure other places picked it up off of ESPN and suddenly we're playing telephone.

This is why we get crap like Manny for the entire Angels roster and stuff like that. The pressure to get the scoop and get attention seems to trump accuracy and truth everyime.

Chip R
02-08-2006, 05:20 PM
Hal's source was Jim Beattie.

J/K, I can't back that up.

Did your source tell you that? ;)

I'm going to laugh next time he and Marty ridicule Gammons for the same thing. Hal needs to just stick to writing a column once or twice a week and leave the beat to someone else.

M2
02-08-2006, 05:28 PM
If a younger reporter did what Hal just did that person would be lucky to keep his/her job.

Chip, good point about Gammons (who knows how to verify a source and how to qualify the information he presents).

tsj017
02-08-2006, 05:35 PM
Another scoop for Hal!

:laugh: :laugh:

timmario66
02-08-2006, 05:44 PM
The erroneous report is no longer on the website or at least it's not on the main Reds page. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

Chip R
02-08-2006, 05:47 PM
Beattie Defeats Krivsky? ;)

timmario66
02-08-2006, 05:55 PM
Post deleted, sorry bad attempt at humor

OnBaseMachine
02-08-2006, 06:23 PM
Chip, good point about Gammons (who knows how to verify a source and how to qualify the information he presents).

Shhh. Didn't you hear the new rule that states you can't praise Gammons on this board?

A lot of people dislike Gammons on this board, I on the other hand love the guy. He's always right on with his Reds news.

M2
02-08-2006, 06:28 PM
Shhh. Didn't you hear the new rule that states you can't praise Gammons on this board?

A lot of people dislike Gammons on this board, I on the other hand love the guy. He's always right on with his Reds news.

He's right on with most things. The guy is crystal clear about what's in talks, what's a rumor and what's a done deal.

He's the best-connected sports reporter ever, a one-man clearing house for baseball information. Beats the hell out of some ex-jock beating his chest about how these kids today don't get it.

Chip R
02-08-2006, 06:42 PM
Gammons has his faults. He's not as objective as he and others would like you to believe. He's not always right either but you have to remember he's dealing with sources from 30 teams who are probably telling him different things to suit their own purposes. Hal and Marty love to snark at him when he makes a report that turns out to be erroneous.

KronoRed
02-08-2006, 07:05 PM
I knew Hal was out of the loop when he had Trader Jack on the potential GM list.

Chip R
02-08-2006, 07:23 PM
I knew Hal was out of the loop when he had Trader Jack on the potential GM list.

I just chalked that up to wishful thinking. He took a shot at putting that out there and hoping Bob would pick up on it. That was pretty transparent though.

Cedric
02-08-2006, 07:31 PM
Tim Kurjkan is the best in my opinion from ESPN.

M2
02-08-2006, 07:35 PM
Tim Kurjkan is the best in my opinion from ESPN.

I find him to be painfully inside the box.

westofyou
02-08-2006, 07:38 PM
I find him to be painfully inside the box.So true, I prefer Stark over TK every day and Sunday.

MWM
02-08-2006, 07:52 PM
I think Kirkjan, Stark, and Olney are all pretty much the same. They are holdovers of times gone by.

CincyReds2003
02-08-2006, 08:08 PM
I like what rotoworld.com says about the report.....

Twins assistant GM Wayne Krivsky has been chosen to replace Dan O'Brien as Cincinnati's general manager.
The Dayton Daily News missed this one, reporting last night that Jim Beattie was set to get the job. Krivsky is very likely a better choice. The 51-year-old has spent the last 30 years in the front offices of the Rangers and Twins and the last eight as the top assistant for Terry Ryan in Minnesota. He gets a two-year contract with a pair of one-year mutual options

RedsManRick
02-08-2006, 08:16 PM
I'll take both Stark and TK over Gammons when I want clarity. But Gammons doesn't hide the fact that he's using inside connections to get information and that things are simply in the internal discussions phase.

Any news from Gammons about the Reds could be interpreted as "Jim Bowden told me that..." The Red Sox are in the same place. Where's there rumblings he passes them along. Again, it's people who reference the initial report that usually leave off the caveats.

BCubb2003
02-08-2006, 08:17 PM
Trade rumor reporting is pretty much useless, if you expect it to tell you what will actually happen. You can hardly call it reporting. The success rate of such predictions is no better than the average Joe. And it sounds like the GM rumor reporting was made of the same stuff.

M2
02-08-2006, 08:22 PM
Trade rumor reporting is pretty much useless, if you expect it to tell you what will actually happen. You can hardly call it reporting. The success rate of such predictions is no better than the average Joe. And it sounds like the GM rumor reporting was made of the same stuff.

Good point about the GM rumor reporting.

IMO the crucial difference in trade rumor circulation is that it's designed to give you some insight into what a team's options might be.

CincyRedsFan30
02-08-2006, 08:22 PM
I think there were warning flags regarding this report that I think most of us may have missed yesterday.

In yesterday's Enquirer piece, Krivsky was quoted as saying that he would wait and allow John Allen to confirm the idea that he was among the last couple on the list.

That should have made it clear to all of us that the team, though possibly leaning toward one candidate (Krivsky of course), was not as much on the Beattie bandwagon as the DDN report suggested. I don't think Krivsky would have stated that quote so explicitly if the team was set to name Beattie the GM and knew it with ABSOLUTE certainty yesterday.

savafan
02-08-2006, 10:01 PM
As I posted on another thread, today's DDN had a picture of Beattie on the front page with the words "The New GM" beside it. I wonder if that will become a collector's item?

creek14
02-08-2006, 10:11 PM
As far as the DDN, it isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
That is so not true!!

We use it for bird cage liners and it works great.

Caseyfan21
02-08-2006, 11:14 PM
Maybe Hal was assuming that Krivsky was the better choice so naturally the Reds would choose Beattie. ;)

MartyFan
02-08-2006, 11:23 PM
I think it is great that Hal got the story wrong...just goes to show you that Cast is not going to be doing his work through the media as Marge did and then Bowden did...he also will not abuse the fans by throwing stories out there when there is nothing to say...he also will communicate with the fans and media when there is something to say.

So, guess what the media and fans learned today???? When Cast says it is so....it IS so...and not until then.

I already feel so much better about our team!

KronoRed
02-08-2006, 11:31 PM
I wonder if that will become a collector's item?
Only if you didn't buy it ;)

savafan
02-08-2006, 11:42 PM
Only if you didn't buy it ;)

HAHA, I didn't, so it will. ;)

REDREAD
02-09-2006, 12:21 AM
So if someone from the Reds' organization tells Hal that Beattie is probably going to get the job, Hal should just sit on that?

Likewise, Hal should never report any rumors unless he's 100% sure the trade will go down?

Isn't it a given when a reporter says, "An inside source with the Reds expects..." that it isn't gospel?

kaldaniels
02-09-2006, 12:39 AM
So if someone from the Reds' organization tells Hal that Beattie is probably going to get the job, Hal should just sit on that?

Likewise, Hal should never report any rumors unless he's 100% sure the trade will go down?

Isn't it a given when a reporter says, "An inside source with the Reds expects..." that it isn't gospel?

Are you kidding me...the DDN website had "Beattie to be named GM (paraphrasing) as a headline and in the fine print it said "sources say, blah blah blah" If you don't think it is reckless for McCoy to print that you have another thing coming. A reporters job is to separate fact from crap. Hal didn't do that.

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 12:50 AM
I am certainly not defending the report, because I was less than convinced of its accuracy to begin with, but let's make sure we get everything straight here.

The headline actually had the word "likely" in it. Although the story itself also indicated it was likely that Beattie would be the GM,the headline is NOT usually written by the writer but rather the editor.

Secondly, although I think there could have been a better job of checking into the validity of the sources, it is not a rare situation in the journalism industry to go out on a limb if you think you are using trustworthy sources (Even though some newspapers have a "no anonymous sources" policy). Now, whether these sources were trustworthy is another matter, but it happens all of the time. You have to take chances in the business. I don't think the story intentionally stated non-factual statements just for the fun of it.

Situations like this where everyone is trying to beat everyone else to the story can sometimes be difficult situations and can lead to pretty much anyone looking bad in the end. It's just the way it works in the business.

kaldaniels
02-09-2006, 12:53 AM
I am certainly not defending the report, because I was less than convinced of its accuracy to begin with, but let's make sure we get everything straight here.

The headline actually had the word "likely" in it. Although the story itself also indicated it was likely that Beattie would be the GM,the headline is NOT usually written by the writer but rather the editor.

Secondly, although I think there could have been a better job of checking into the validity of the sources, it is not a rare situation in the journalism industry to go out on a limb if you think you are using trustworthy sources (Even though some newspapers have a "no anonymous sources" policy). Now, whether these sources were trustworthy is another matter, but it happens all of the time. You have to take chances in the business. I don't think the story intentionally stated non-factual statements just for the fun of it.

Situations like this where everyone is trying to beat everyone else to the story can sometimes be difficult situations and can lead to pretty much anyone looking bad in the end. It's just the way it works in the business.

Exactly, you take your chances, and if you are wrong, an idiot like myself is able to call you on it. :D

Chip R
02-09-2006, 12:54 AM
So if someone from the Reds' organization tells Hal that Beattie is probably going to get the job, Hal should just sit on that?

Likewise, Hal should never report any rumors unless he's 100% sure the trade will go down?

Isn't it a given when a reporter says, "An inside source with the Reds expects..." that it isn't gospel?

That may be but the Enquirer and the Post didn't say that Beattie was going to get the job and they actually got quotes from Bob's spokesman which denied that Beattie or anyone had been chosen. So we have the DDN with a HOF writer whiffing on the story and we have the Post, which is on life support, and the Enquirer, which has probably the worst coverage amongst the 3 papers, not only holding off on that rumor but getting confirmation that it wasn't true.

Seems to me Hal wanted to show everyone he still had it as a reporter and tried to scoop the competition by getting his story out there first and he either screwed up by not getting confirmation or his source gave him bogus info. He gambled and he lost. Joe Reporter does that and he's working the obits. Hall of Famer Hal McCoy does it and nothing happens. It's like Nuxhall messing up on a player's name or forgetting how many outs there are or what the correct score is or where the ball was hit to. Beloved old guys can mess up without consequences but God forbid a player makes a mistake.

There's a huge difference between reporting a trade rumor and reporting that one guy is going to be named Reds GM when it turns out the other guy was. I would expect that reporter not to be so snarky the next time Peter Gammons reports a trade rumor. And, no, it isn't a given that if an inside source says they expect X to happen that it should be taken with a grain of salt. That's how reporters make their livings, relying on sources to get a story. You can't defend Hal by saying that he's a HOF writer because of the information he gets from his sources and then excuse his blunder by saying his sources aren't trustworthy. You can't have it both ways.

savafan
02-09-2006, 12:59 AM
That may be but the Enquirer and the Post didn't say that Beattie was going to get the job and they actually got quotes from Bob's spokesman which denied that Beattie or anyone had been chosen. So we have the DDN with a HOF writer whiffing on the story and we have the Post, which is on life support, and the Enquirer, which has probably the worst coverage amongst the 3 papers, not only holding off on that rumor but getting confirmation that it wasn't true.

Seems to me Hal wanted to show everyone he still had it as a reporter and tried to scoop the competition by getting his story out there first and he either screwed up by not getting confirmation or his source gave him bogus info. He gambled and he lost. Joe Reporter does that and he's working the obits. Hall of Famer Hal McCoy does it and nothing happens. It's like Nuxhall messing up on a player's name or forgetting how many outs there are or what the correct score is or where the ball was hit to. Beloved old guys can mess up without consequences but God forbid a player makes a mistake.

There's a huge difference between reporting a trade rumor and reporting that one guy is going to be named Reds GM when it turns out the other guy was. I would expect that reporter not to be so snarky the next time Peter Gammons reports a trade rumor. And, no, it isn't a given that if an inside source says they expect X to happen that it should be taken with a grain of salt. That's how reporters make their livings, relying on sources to get a story. You can't defend Hal by saying that he's a HOF writer because of the information he gets from his sources and then excuse his blunder by saying his sources aren't trustworthy. You can't have it both ways.


I think that is a very excellent analysis Chip! :thumbup:

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 12:59 AM
Exactly, you take your chances, and if you are wrong, an idiot like myself is able to call you on it. :D

That's pretty much what happens. It can be a brutal business. ;)

KronoRed
02-09-2006, 01:10 AM
Great post Chip :clap:

BCubb2003
02-09-2006, 01:40 AM
Yes, good post Chip. The trouble is that the trade-rumor style of reporting is so common these days, and never gets a tough editing like we expect of real reporting, that it's hard for the writers who traffic in that to change their ways when they have to do real reporting.

By the way, Hal's next story will say that he's happy he was wrong and he thinks Krivsky was a better choice, but he had two sources outside the Reds who got it wrong.

But you didn't hear that from me.

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 01:51 AM
Red-faced, but happy to be wrong

By Hal McCoy

Dayton Daily News

CINCINNATI | Is my face red, as red as an old Cincinnati Reds cap? No, the new Cincinnati Reds general manager isn't Jim Beattie, the man I all but anointed as the winner in Wednesday's Dayton Daily News.

The guy is Wayne Krivsky, the right guy, the guy I preferred all along but feared was losing out for the second straight time.

I underestimated Krivsky and should have known better. I've known the man a long, long time and know his passion for baseball and his belief in his abilities. And I underestimated new owner Bob Castellini and his ability to sniff out the genuine article.

He got it in Wayne Krivsky.

I was misled by a couple of outside sources, who believed Beattie was the choice. They were wrong and I was submarined. I have never been so happy to be so wrong.

Krivsky should have been GM in 2003, was the choice of nearly everybody in the Reds organization, everybody but the man who counted, owner Carl Lindner. While everybody else pushed for Krivsky, Lindner pushed Krivsky aside and gave the job to Dan O'Brien, the man Krivsky replaces.

Gene Bennett, a special senior assistant and beginning his 54th year with the Reds, was on the screening/interview team this time. He wasn't the last time.

"We got the right man this time," said Bennett. "Can you imagine where we might be if we had hired him two years ago. We might be playing in The Big Game this fall."

Beattie and Krivsky were the only candidates invited back for a second interview. Krivsky completed his second session early Wednesday afternoon and Castellini pulled him aside in another room and said, "You're the man."

There were tears.

"His emotional acceptance when we told him he had the job, we knew he was so grateful to get this opportunity, you can't help but feel he'll be a great performer and do a great job," Castellini said.

"He is a very knowledgeable baseball man. He is a keen evaluator of talent. He's a 24/7 get-the-job-done person," Castellini added, speaking in punctuated language for emphasis. "He has grit, get down in the dirt work ethics, scouting 300 players a year. He'll lead by example and he is the fellow to kick-start this franchise back into championship baseball."

Castellini sees in Krivsky what he sees in himself. And he sees in Cincinnati what he sees in Minneapolis, where Krivsky was assistant general manager of the Minnesota Twins.

"The towns are the same," said Castellini. "Like Cincinnati, Minneapolis is a hard-working town with good values. Minneapolis and Cincinnati get it done with what they have. They are can-do societies. Minnesota as a small market club is the best in baseball, or at least a photo finish with a couple of others. For (Minnesota general manager) Terry Ryan to let us take him Wayne out of there to come and perform his magic here, we appreciate that."

And, of course, Castellini wants Krivsky to use Minnesota as a model for the Reds —similar markets, small payrolls — and Krivsky plans to do just that.

"The Twins are the model for me and I lived with the Twins, I know that one the best," said Krivsky. "The Twins, under Terry Ryan, are the way you run a top-notch, first-class organization and that's what I intend to do here.

"I'm here to tell you, these guys mean business," Krivsky said of ownership. "They want to win, they want to do it the right way, they are dedicated to winning and scouting development, which is how you run a front-line organization. There are no agendas and no pretenses."

Krivsky, a man with a smile nearly always in place, almost sneered when payroll was mentioned.

"The payroll thing? Hogwash," he said. "Forget it. I'm not here to talk about budget or money. We'll do it within our means. It's how you spend it. The roadside is littered with high-spending teams that don't win."

And don't push him to make rash predictions.

"You all want to know when and how we're going to win here," he said. "Don't ask me those questions now. I don't know. We are going to work hard and when we are good we want to be good for a long time."

At the end of a press conference, Castellini signed a new baseball and flipped it to Krivsky. "This officially turns the baseball operations over to you."

Krivsky held the baseball and said, "You won't find this on eBay."

For a long time, it looked as if Krivsky might have to scour eBay for a general manager's chair, but he found one in Cincinnati and the fit should be perfect.

MWM
02-09-2006, 01:53 AM
Hal was bit self-serving in that article, no?

savafan
02-09-2006, 02:06 AM
By the way, Hal's next story will say that he's happy he was wrong and he thinks Krivsky was a better choice, but he had two sources outside the Reds who got it wrong.

But you didn't hear that from me.

Are you Hal? ;)

RFS62
02-09-2006, 08:21 AM
First Adam Dunn's broken hand, now Dewey defeats Truman.

Hal's having an quite an offseason.

membengal
02-09-2006, 08:23 AM
Hal was bit self-serving in that article, no?

He was about as self-serving as the Reds' farm system is barren.

Newport Red
02-09-2006, 09:15 AM
Yesterday it was "two reliable sources close to the situation".
Today it is a "couple of outside sources".
Does Hal write news or fiction?

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 09:17 AM
First Adam Dunn's broken hand, now Dewey defeats Truman.

Hal's having an quite an offseason.Getting the "official" info about Dunn's broken hand from Dr. K is not what I call a slam dunk strike against Hal...:p: [we've been down that road before with Junior's injuries...]

KronoRed
02-09-2006, 11:20 AM
Hal was bit self-serving in that article, no?
A bit.

Nice article when he wasn't saying "my choice all along"

M2
02-09-2006, 11:32 AM
Um, beat writers shouldn't have a choice for GM, at least not publicly. If Hal wants to be columnist, then choose away, but that kind of crap should be verboten if you're also going to be writing news copy.

At this point the man has become a rolling embarrassment to his profession.

ochre
02-09-2006, 11:37 AM
Hal is quickly becoming irrelevant. Seems he used to have some actually reliable sources. Now his guess is as good (or not) as ours from what I can tell.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 11:41 AM
Hal is quickly becoming irrelevant. Seems he used to have some actually reliable sources. Now his guess is as good (or not) as ours from what I can tell.
That's the case with an older guy in a media transition period and an organizational transition. Hal's a crusty old timer, eventually his sources leave or retire, that in turn leads him to a lower level of sources with each front office change.

Hal's days of "breaking news" are pretty much over.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 11:57 AM
Hal's days of "breaking news" are pretty much over.
Personally, I don't read Hal for "breaking news" - I've got RedsZone!!! :thumbup:

I read him for stories about the players - but past and present. I guess I enjoy reading about their personalities [I'm a fuzzy, feel good story fan] Also, he's the one who sort of changed my perception about Junior [BTW, I'm not a Junior fan] by reporting how Junior's personality is vastly different in the clubhouse than it is to the public.:)

flyer85
02-09-2006, 12:02 PM
oops, messed up.

"Sorry, I'm just a guy".

Chip R
02-09-2006, 12:04 PM
Um, beat writers shouldn't have a choice for GM, at least not publicly. If Hal wants to be columnist, then choose away, but that kind of crap should be verboten if you're also going to be writing news copy.

At this point the man has become a rolling embarrassment to his profession.

I've wondered for years if he even has an editor. I get the feeling he could just write his articles in gibberish and they would print it. Sacking him would be ugly and he probably wouldn't take early retirement. If the DDN had any guts they would let him write a column once or twice a week and hire Marc Lancaster off the Titanic to be their beat writer or put someone else on the beat.

Oh, and nice way to throw Beattie under the bus to suit your own purposes.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 12:05 PM
oops, messed up.

"Sorry, I'm just a guy".:confused: You or Hal?

nyjwagner
02-09-2006, 12:07 PM
To be a little fair to old Hal, I spoke to a scout friend last night ( from another organization) that had heard early in the day from inside the Reds org. that Beattie really was going to be chosen and that the second round of interviews was just to dot i's and cross t's....so something happened that changed Castellini's mind at the last minute. What was funny, is that I was the one to tell my friend that it wasnt Beattie...until I told him at 11pm he was sure he knew.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 12:10 PM
I've wondered for years if he even has an editor. I get the feeling he could just write his articles in gibberish and they would print it. Sacking him would be ugly and he probably wouldn't take early retirement. If the DDN had any guts they would let him write a column once or twice a week and hire Marc Lancaster off the Titanic to be their beat writer or put someone else on the beat.

Oh, and nice way to throw Beattie under the bus to suit your own purposes.He probably doesn't... but the Marc suggestion is a good one.:thumbup: even tho' it will probably go to someone already on DDN's payroll. For DDN is a damn if you do, damn if you don't concerning Hal... DDN is a unique newspaper in that it's from a city that has no major professional sport team and yet has more than one sports writer in the baseball HOF.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 12:11 PM
Oh, and nice way to throw Beattie under the bus to suit your own purposes.Hey, we're all quilty of that...:)

traderumor
02-09-2006, 12:11 PM
I don't see the self-serving part of that article :confused:

Chip R
02-09-2006, 12:16 PM
I don't see the self-serving part of that article :confused:

"It wasn't my fault, it was my sources fault. After all they put a gun to my head and made me file that story. I never really wanted Beattie anyway, I was for Krivsky all along - except when I wanted Jack McKeon to come back."

flyer85
02-09-2006, 12:16 PM
:confused: You or Hal?Hal.

But I am also "just a guy". At least I try to use it as an excuse.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 12:19 PM
"It wasn't my fault, it was my sources fault. After all they put a gun to my head and made me file that story. I never really wanted Beattie anyway, I was for Krivsky all along - except when I wanted Jack McKeon to come back."
I don't see that quote...:confused:

traderumor
02-09-2006, 12:22 PM
"It wasn't my fault, it was my sources fault. After all they put a gun to my head and made me file that story. I never really wanted Beattie anyway, I was for Krivsky all along - except when I wanted Jack McKeon to come back."Ok, I see what you mean. I can see reading it that way.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 12:25 PM
Ok, I see what you mean. I can see reading it that way.Well, if you don't like Hal, of course...:)

traderumor
02-09-2006, 12:27 PM
Well, if you don't like Hal, of course...:)
Personally, I like Hal, he always responded to my emails even if it was to call him out about his fallacious rumors. But I can also see where he got out from under the bus, found the two guys that threw him there, and tossed them under it once it got started again.

MWM
02-09-2006, 12:30 PM
Hal's an easy guy not to like. Lines like "I underestimated Catellini's ability to sniff out the genuine article" are the self-serving part of the article.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 12:31 PM
Well, if you don't like Hal, of course...:)

I like Hal, I've had some nice back and forth with him regarding some things over the years and I respect his work.

But sometimes a little less is a little more, maybe Hal needs to do an Earl Lawson and go to fewer columns, something has to give and it shouldn't be the years of work he did to get him where he is.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 12:45 PM
I like Hal, I've had some nice back and forth with him regarding some things over the years and I respect his work.

But sometimes a little less is a little more, maybe Hal needs to do an Earl Lawson and go to fewer columns, something has to give and it shouldn't be the years of work he did to get him where he is.True, I wouldn't want to be DDN's editor for that... sort of like telling my Dad that he can't drive anymore...:(

ochre
02-09-2006, 12:55 PM
Personally, I don't read Hal for "breaking news" - I've got RedsZone!!! :thumbup:

I read him for stories about the players - but past and present. I guess I enjoy reading about their personalities [I'm a fuzzy, feel good story fan] Also, he's the one who sort of changed my perception about Junior [BTW, I'm not a Junior fan] by reporting how Junior's personality is vastly different in the clubhouse than it is to the public.:)
Well. He could easily slip into a Tom Archdeacon type of role and just do those types of stories then. I agree that stylistically he does some pretty good work. That's fine. The general beat coverage needs to be handled by someone a bit more dynamic than he is at this stage I'd say.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 01:06 PM
Well. He could easily slip into a Tom Archdeacon type of role and just do those types of stories then. I agree that stylistically he does some pretty good work. That's fine. The general beat coverage needs to be handled by someone a bit more dynamic than he is at this stage I'd say.True, dynamic is the progressive word here... IMHO, the beat writers of Hal's time have passed - in the world of blogs and fansites there is no place for them.

TeamBoone
02-09-2006, 07:32 PM
I spoke to a scout friend last night ( from another organization) that had heard early in the day from inside the Reds org. that Beattie really was going to be chosen and that the second round of interviews was just to dot i's and cross t's....so something happened that changed Castellini's mind at the last minute.

Not necessarily. Perhaps your friend's inside source was the same as Hal's... and he/she got it wrong or misinterpreted something that was discussed "inside".

Redsland
02-11-2006, 03:54 PM
Beloved old guys can mess up without consequences but God forbid a player makes a mistake.
Testify!

Edd Roush
02-11-2006, 11:58 PM
The thing about Journalism these days, and in almost every day, is that accuracy is not the most important thing. The most important thing is for newspapers to sell copies, and to bring in the do ray me. Granted, papers need to be accurate enough to be respected so people will actually read the articles. Hal isn't getting any younger and I like the prior analogy to Joe Nuxhall. I think Hal needs to take a smaller role like Joe. Where Hal is great at the feel good, personality stories, Joe's stories send many back to memories of easier and in the Reds case, better days. In my opinion, there is still a place for the Hals and Joe's of this world because while neither can be counted on for accuracy any more, there work includes the old school soul that you don't find in hard baseball news. So, yea, Hal was wrong for his story and maybe he should be taken off the beat, but there will always be a place for him and he is one fantastic writer.