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Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 12:08 PM
Hal's really on a roll. On top of his Beattie announcement, I know see in the DDN that you can click on a Q & A with Hall of Famer Steve Garvey. Maybe I missed it, but what year did Steve Garvey go into the baseball Hall of Fame? This Dan Rather type reporting is really staining a wonderful writing career. I'm sure he'll blame his editor for this like he does everything else. I noticed that his sources became "outside sources" after Krivsky was hired. I doubt they were referred to outside sources in yesterday's paper, although I don't know they've pulled the link. This is getting beyond sad. His articles are blasphemy.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 12:50 PM
I wonder if Hal writes the titles for his articles? Here is the Q&A:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/wsu/daily/0207garvey.html?UrAuth=`NcNUOcN]UbTTUWUXUWUZTZU^UWUbUaUZU]U_UcTYWVVZV

Garvey's career at first began against Reds
Former Dodgers great to speak at WSU baseball fundraiser
By Hal McCoy

Dayton Daily News

Steve Garvey played 18 years for the Los Angeles Dodgers and San Diego Padres, compiling a .294 career average with 272 home runs.

He played 1,207 consecutive games, was an All-Star 10 times and compiled a .393 lifetime All-Star average. Garvey was National League MVP in 1974 and a write-in All-Star that year and was the game's MVP. He hit .356 in 22 league championship games with eight homers and 21 RBIs and had a .319 average in 28 World Series games.

Garvey will be the featured speaker Wednesday night at Wright State's First Pitch Banquet, which raises money for the Raiders baseball program. He took some time last week to discuss his career and America's pastime.


Q What do you remember about the heated Dodgers-Reds rivalry of the 70's?

A I was a third baseman and we were going to play the Reds in a doubleheader in 1975. I didn't play the first game and got a pinch-hit single in the ninth. Cincinnati's Fred Norman was to pitch the second game and we couldn't handle him. Manager Walter Alston asked me if I had ever played first base and I said, yes, once in Little League and once in Triple-A. He said, 'Well, you're at first for the second game.' I got a couple of hits and Walter put my name down at first base from then on.


Q What is your opinion of the state of baseball?

A Today's players are bigger, stronger and faster. Are they technically better? No. And they don't seem to have the passion that guys like Pete Rose and I had. All we wanted to do was play every inning and get 200 hits. Players today don't have that passion. They are happy to play 145 to 150 games. And they aren't willing to do things like move runners over or bunt. I'd get six or seven bunt hits a year when I saw the third baseman playing back. Egos get in the way today.


Q Where do you stand on baseball's steroids policy?

A The game will be much better when MLB and the players union work closer together. The new steroids policy is a step in the right direction, but I'd like to see baseball adopt the Olympics policy first offense a two-year suspension and second offense permanent disqualification. If the rule is that strict, then players won't take the chance.


Q How do you feel about the designated hitter?

A I'm a purist. I'd like to see pitchers hit and see managers get the opportunity to make decisions. It came into being because the American League didn't think its brand of baseball was as exciting as the National League and had to do something. That isn't the case now, but the DH is too entrenched to have it changed. I'm just glad the National League never went to it.


Q How about the wild card in the playoffs?

A It's good for the game, especially the fans. When I played we had just a best-of-five League Championship Series, which was full of pressure. Once you got through that, you had the best-of-seven World Series and that was more relaxed. It is more for television now and stimulates more fan interest. Same with interleague play. Attendance is up and it is good for the game. Fans should get to see Anaheim against the Dodgers and the Reds against the Indians.


Q Who was the toughest pitcher you ever faced?

A I was a guesstimator, a guy who watched for patterns and sequences. You couldn't do that with knuckleballer Phil Niekro. And there was (Houston's) J.R. Richard, who isn't in the Hall of Fame but threw 97 miles-an-hour fastballs, 92 miles-an-hour sliders and was 6-foot-8. He seemed to be releasing the ball from 50 feet.


Q Who was the best player you played against?

A I came in at the tail of the careers of Willie Mays and Hank Aaron and I played against and with Tony Gwynn. But day in and day out, I'd say Pete Rose. He was like me. He wanted to play every inning and he wanted a hit every at-bat and he wanted to win. We had the same work ethic. He wasn't the biggest, fastest or best player, but he got the most out of himself.


Q You played 1,207 games in a row. How often did you play hurt?

A I had a lot of migraine headaches. Sometimes I'd slide into third base with a triple and I'd get up and my head was spinning. I played with hairline fractures, hamstring pulls, the flu. But I played. I just wanted to play.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 12:56 PM
BTW - I sent an email to the DDN's Sports Editor to correct the misleading title...:)

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 01:49 PM
I don't know if Hal writes the titles or not but someone needs to inform him of what they're adding to his columns because this reflects on him. I'd love to know who thought Garvey was in the Hall. If Hal's health is such that he cannot read his columns or see what's being written then it is time to hang it up. This is not a typo. this is misinformation.

Chip R
02-09-2006, 01:51 PM
I don't know if Hal writes the titles or not but someone needs to inform him of what they're adding to his columns because this reflects on him. I'd love to know who thought Garvey was in the Hall. If Hal's health is such that he cannot read his columns or see what's being written then it is time to hang it up. This is not a typo. this is misinformation.

I would think Garvey's in some hall of fame somewhere. ;)

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 02:15 PM
I sent another email to the sports editor at the DDN:

In reference to the incorrect title of the Q&A with Steve Garvey - some fans believe this reflects badly on Hal (even if he didn't approve of the title) and someone at DDN needs to inform him of this.

Many of these fans are reeling and angry of the misinformatiton of the Beattie hiring and Hal's apology, and believe he should retire.

Any information would be appreciated...

Thanks!

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 02:18 PM
Oh, crap! I misspelled "information"...:(

Cedric
02-09-2006, 02:23 PM
I sent another email to the sports editor at the DDN:

In reference to the incorrect title of the Q&A with Steve Garvey - some fans believe this reflects badly on Hal (even if he didn't approve of the title) and someone at DDN needs to inform him of this.

Many of these fans are reeling and angry of the misinformatiton of the Beattie hiring and Hal's apology, and believe he should retire.

Any information would be appreciated...

Thanks!

Redszone members are always reeling and angry about something. No need to retire Hal.

RFS62
02-09-2006, 02:24 PM
Oh, crap! I misspelled "information"...:(


That should add to their shame. Even people who can't spell caught his mistake.


:p:

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 02:24 PM
Redszone members are always reeling and angry about something. No need to retire Hal.Right, but Hal's a special case... (like Marty) :)

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 05:00 PM
I was disappointed in Hal's response. This was his letter to me which comes across as a crotchety old man,


Number one, I don't write the headlines. No. 2, that headline was not in the newspaper, only on the web-site and somebody there wrote the headline. It was quickly taken down when it was discovered. However, I do think he BELONGS in the Hall of Fame and vote for him every year, but I do know he ISN'T in the Hall of Fame.

And thanks for kicking a guy when he's down.

Hal

I would have hoped he'd say something like " I was apalled when I checked our website and confirmed what you told me. There's no excuse for such an aggregious error to make it to our website. I will have it corrected immediately. I value accuracy above all else in reporting and I regret that this one fell through the cracks."

Instead he makes excuses like the fact that it was correct in the print edition of the DDN and it wasn't his fault. Way to pass the buck, Hal. That's like the pitcher saying "that gopherball to lose the game wouldn't have happened if the catcher hadn't called for a fastball".

NJReds
02-09-2006, 05:07 PM
I was disappointed in Hal's response. This was his letter to me which comes across as a crotchety old man,


Crotchety? You told the guy to quit? What'd you expect...for him to say "Thanks for that - we've corrected the headline and I put all of my stuff in a cardboard box." ?

Reporters and columnists have zero influence on headlines. They file their story and that's the end of it. It goes to the copy desk and the desk figures out where it's going to go and what the headline and sub-heads will be.

15fan
02-09-2006, 05:11 PM
Dear Hal.

This brings back fond memories of the old Fastball.com days when you told us that the Reds were going to sign Delino DeShields to play 2b.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

registerthis
02-09-2006, 05:17 PM
Crotchety? You told the guy to quit? What'd you expect...for him to say "Thanks for that - we've corrected the headline and I put all of my stuff in a cardboard box." ?

Reporters and columnists have zero influence on headlines. They file their story and that's the end of it. It goes to the copy desk and the desk figures out where it's going to go and what the headline and sub-heads will be.

Seriously. Hal deserves some flak for the Beattie article, but this is truly making a mountain of a molehill.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 05:18 PM
Blaming Hal for the headline on a web site is like blaming Richard Petty for Jeff Gordon.

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 05:18 PM
Crotchety? You told the guy to quit? What'd you expect...for him to say "Thanks for that - we've corrected the headline and I put all of my stuff in a cardboard box." ?

Reporters and columnists have zero influence on headlines. They file their story and that's the end of it. It goes to the copy desk and the desk figures out where it's going to go and what the headline and sub-heads will be.

NJ, I absolutely did not call for his resignation! I have no right to put that in a letter to him although if you want my opinion, I do think it is time. His performance right now reminds me of seeing Willie Mays play for the Mets.

In case you're curious, my note to him was blunt, short and to the point. I figure he gets tons of e-mails. I need to state my business and get out:


I clicked on the title of your article on Steve Garvey. It was titled" Question and Answer with Hall of Famer Steve Garvey. When was Steve Garvey elected to the Hall of Fame? I missed that year. Please clear this up.

Just for the record, the site still says Hall of Famer Steve Garvey

Crash Davis
02-09-2006, 05:20 PM
If that was Hal's response, good for him.

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 05:23 PM
Seriously. Hal deserves some flak for the Beattie article, but this is truly making a mountain of a molehill.

I'm not making a mountain out of it. I merely asked that he correct the facts. If I'd called for him to resign, you'd be correct.

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 05:26 PM
Blaming Hal for the headline on a web site is like blaming Richard Petty for Jeff Gordon.

I don't know who wrote the headline. Hal's name is on the article. Who else do I alert that the headline on his column is erroneous? If it's my article I read everything after it's printed (if not before) to make sure that it's accurate.

TOBTTReds
02-09-2006, 05:30 PM
I wrote him w/out being smart, and he had a very nice response to me, including signing it with "all the best." So I'm sure he got a lot of emails and still wrote a nice one back.

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 05:52 PM
I got a similar response as you, Aves.

He told me he has felt depressed and dejected all day over misleading his readers and that he should have checked deeper than the two sources he used.

registerthis
02-09-2006, 05:58 PM
I'm not making a mountain out of it. I merely asked that he correct the facts. If I'd called for him to resign, you'd be correct.

You wrote him a smart-ass email about a trivial matter on the same day he's catching a lot of flak for the Beattie screw-up. I don't blame him for being less than gracious.

And the fact that this thing has its own thread is living proof that you've made a mountain out of a molehill. It's a dead issue.

Mainspark
02-09-2006, 06:06 PM
I like Hal; he occasionally gets burned going for the big scoop. It was Hal who reported, without qualification, that Ron Oester was the new Reds manager in a story published the day Bob Boone was hired.

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 06:08 PM
You wrote him a smart-ass email about a trivial matter on the same day he's catching a lot of flak for the Beattie screw-up. I don't blame him for being less than gracious.

And the fact that this thing has its own thread is living proof that you've made a mountain out of a molehill. It's a dead issue.

There's nothing trivial about inaccuracies in the Press unless you're Dan Rather. I value factual reporting.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 06:12 PM
There's nothing trivial about inaccuracies in the Press unless you're Dan Rather. I value factual reporting.
Oh please...

registerthis
02-09-2006, 06:13 PM
There's nothing trivial about inaccuracies in the Press unless you're Dan Rather. I value factual reporting.

Then your beef is with the DDN headline writer, not Hal. Like I said, I don't blame Hal one bit for his response. And I'm through going back and forth on this, you got the response that your message deserved.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 07:08 PM
Well, I sent both of my emails to the Sports Editor and have yet to receive a response back. We'll see what they say...

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 07:17 PM
Even though I vehemently disagree with Sea Ray's view of Hal McCoy, I'll at least give him some credit for saying what's on his mind in an email to Hal directly - instead of just talking about it on a website re: the thread...McCoy needs to address his "report" [which he did BTW].

paintmered
02-09-2006, 07:19 PM
There's nothing trivial about inaccuracies in the Press unless you're Dan Rather. I value factual reporting.

Off topic and backhanded. Knock it off.

IslandRed
02-09-2006, 08:06 PM
Look... headlines aren't done by writers, but by editors. And at some papers, stuff that goes on the web is published/edited by people lower on the totem pole than the editors for the print edition. Hal's job is to write an article. If something goes wrong further down the line, it's someone else's fault, responsibility and (body part). If you're suggesting Hal is derelict for not checking to see that the headlines on the web site are right, then pretty much every writer in America has been derelict for pretty much the entire life span of the Internet. It's not part of their job description.

GAC
02-09-2006, 08:25 PM
Well, I sent both of my emails to the Sports Editor and have yet to receive a response back. We'll see what they say...

The NSA currently has your emails. His first name is Hal, not Osama. :lol:

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 08:34 PM
The NSA currently has your emails. His first name is Hal, not Osama. :lol::duel: And I was going to send you some Dawg Pound stickers...;)

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 09:29 PM
Then your beef is with the DDN headline writer, not Hal. Like I said, I don't blame Hal one bit for his response. And I'm through going back and forth on this, you got the response that your message deserved.

There's plenty of blame to go around. As I stated before, I have no idea who the headline writer is. If you know who wrote that headline please post it immediately. If my name is on a column, I will surely read it to make sure it's accurately written. It's amazing to me that this newspaper not only put up false information in this headline, it also didn't catch it days after being posted. A paper that is lax with the facts loses credibility. If you can't trust the news you're reading, then what good are they? It's the difference between newspapers and tabloids.

I know Hal's popular around here, so the response here is predictable. I'm a fact based guy and that's why I've posted all the facts on this as well as Hal's response. Obviously not everyone feels that way. I have no respect for the Dan Rathers and James Freys of the world. That's just the way I am.

One thing I think we can all agree on: Let's get back to talking Reds baseball.:beerme:

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 09:37 PM
I know Hal's popular around here,He is??? Read the thread McCoy needs to address his "report"....:eek:

westofyou
02-09-2006, 09:43 PM
I have no respect for the Dan Rathers and James Freys of the world. That's just the way I am.
Yeah they're completly the same. :rolleyes:

NJReds
02-10-2006, 09:05 AM
NJ, I absolutely did not call for his resignation! I have no right to put that in a letter to him although if you want my opinion, I do think it is time. His performance right now reminds me of seeing Willie Mays play for the Mets.

In case you're curious, my note to him was blunt, short and to the point. I figure he gets tons of e-mails. I need to state my business and get out:



Just for the record, the site still says Hall of Famer Steve Garvey

My mistake...I read the letter that Kitty sent, and the response that you got and put the two together. Sorry for that.

KronoRed
02-10-2006, 09:44 AM
The NSA currently has your emails. His first name is Hal, not Osama. :lol:
Bring it on NSA :devil:

registerthis
02-10-2006, 10:01 AM
I know Hal's popular around here, so the response here is predictable. I'm a fact based guy and that's why I've posted all the facts on this as well as Hal's response. Obviously not everyone feels that way. I have no respect for the Dan Rathers and James Freys of the world. That's just the way I am.

Hal's popularity has nothing to do with this. You sent off a smarmy email message, got back a smarmy reply, then posted a thread on RZ complaining about it. There are numerous ways you could have raised the issue with Hal; you chose the one most likely to illicit a short-tempered response.

And knock off the Dan Rather and James Frey comments. They have nada to do with this discussion.

Sea Ray
02-10-2006, 10:05 AM
Hal's popularity has nothing to do with this. You sent off a smarmy email message, got back a smarmy reply, then posted a thread on RZ complaining about it. There are numerous ways you could have raised the issue with Hal; you chose the one most likely to illicit a short-tempered response.

And knock off the Dan Rather and James Frey comments. They have nada to do with this discussion.

Just to set the record straight, I started this thread before I received any responses from Hal. That fact invalidates the bulk of your post.

I'll try this one more time. Rather than ordering me what to do (knock off the Dan Rather and James Frey comments), let's get back to discussing Reds baseball:beerme:

Moosie52
02-10-2006, 12:24 PM
Let it go.

Chip R
02-10-2006, 12:36 PM
I've looked at that article twice now and I still can't see where he is called a Hall of Famer. :confused:

KittyDuran
02-10-2006, 12:39 PM
I've looked at that article twice now and I still can't see where he is called a Hall of Famer. :confused:It's only in the title link, Chip...

RBA
02-10-2006, 02:38 PM
This is the current title, they may of changed it due to the "letter writing campaign"?

"Garvey's career at first began against Reds
Former Dodgers great to speak at WSU baseball fundraiser"

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/wsu/daily/0207garvey.html?

KittyDuran
02-10-2006, 02:51 PM
This is the current title, they may of changed it due to the "letter writing campaign"?

"Garvey's career at first began against Reds
Former Dodgers great to speak at WSU baseball fundraiser"

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/wsu/daily/0207garvey.html?RBA - that's the actual title of the article. But if you bring up the DDN then go to the Reds page, the title is Q & A with Hall of Famer Steve Garvey.

Chip R
02-10-2006, 03:13 PM
RBA - that's the actual title of the article. But if you bring up the DDN then go to the Reds page, the title is Q & A with Hall of Famer Steve Garvey.

OK, I can see that now. Can't really fault Hal for that one if he wasn't the one who wrote it.

Sea Ray
02-10-2006, 03:15 PM
RBA - that's the actual title of the article. But if you bring up the DDN then go to the Reds page, the title is Q & A with Hall of Famer Steve Garvey.

You are correct, KD. What's amazing to me is that it still hasn't been taken down. I guess Hal didn't mean this either as taken from a note posted earlier on this thread:


...No. 2, that headline was not in the newspaper, only on the web-site and somebody there wrote the headline. It was quickly taken down when it was discovered...- Hal McCoy 2-9-06

I just checked a minute ago and it still says Q and A With Hall of Famer Steve Garvey. Yet Hal clearly stated that it has already been taken down. Past tense. Not tomorrow, not today. Another untrue statement

The DDN has adjusted the site as it does everyday and even moved this article to make room for today's story yet they keep this false headline up there.

Oh well. Being accurate is clearly not a priority of the DDN. I am surprised that it's still up there a day after Hal said it would be taken down.

RFS62
02-10-2006, 03:18 PM
:deadhorse

westofyou
02-10-2006, 03:20 PM
What's amazing to me is that it still hasn't been taken down.

I'm amazed as well..... but for different reasons.

registerthis
02-10-2006, 03:32 PM
I've lost all faith in American journalism.

I'll expect reports on the hour until the offending headline is removed.

Big Donkey
02-10-2006, 11:40 PM
Haven't been around in a while, but thought I'd check in since quite a flurry of news has happened in the last few days.

Just for the record, from accounts I've gotten, Jim Beattie WAS the choice as of Tuesday night as Bob Castellini and co. changed their direction Wednesday morning. Apparently Wayne Krivsky left a strong impression after flying back in for the second meeting. Hal probably won't say otherwise because he doesn't wanna look like he's making excuses or covering up anything. He wrote a commentary that appeared yesterday, apologizing for the story on Beattie... also, as far as I know, he said all the while that Beattie would LIKELY be the guy... I'm not sure that he ever said with certainty that he would be. But it did look that way with the gigantic font the DDN gave the story, as it typically does major news.

Speaking of which... yeah, the headline on the Garvey story... McCoy has nothing to do with, nor the web content. I'm not sure why it's making such a big fuss, but I don't know why he would receive complaints on it.

Heath
02-11-2006, 08:56 PM
I think we all need a vacation.....wait I just came back from one.

And no, it was a self-imposed vacation - nothing ordered by Boss...;)

realreds1
02-11-2006, 09:10 PM
There's nothing trivial about inaccuracies in the Press unless you're Dan Rather. I value factual reporting.


Wow, first the Kullman thread was closed. Now THIS. Redszone is looking more and more like the official Reds MLB message board everyday... :thumbdown

StillFunkyB
02-11-2006, 10:26 PM
Wow, first the Kullman thread was closed. Now THIS. Redszone is looking more and more like the official Reds MLB message board everyday... :thumbdown

Well, the actual TEAM hasn't changed much. I think everyone has darn near pulled every hair out with the Woemakks, and Awwreelyus.

I'm just glad ST starts really really soon! :)

BoydsOfSummer
02-12-2006, 09:23 AM
And I was going to send you some Dawg Pound stickers...

Send them to me instead!:luvu:

KittyDuran
02-12-2006, 10:46 AM
Send them to me instead!:luvu:Heck, I can just drive them over...:)

KronoRed
02-12-2006, 12:00 PM
I'm just glad ST starts really really soon! :)
So we can moan about a whole different thing ;)