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Az. Reds Fan
02-09-2006, 07:45 PM
according to Marc.

1.) Brad Kullman has been fired. Can't say I'm surprised by this, but apparently this has happened within the last couple of hours. Talked to him a little before 5 and it sounded like everything was fine.

2.) The Reds have signed -- drumroll, please -- Timo Perez. It's a minor league deal but does not, at this point, carry an invitation to big-league camp.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 07:48 PM
We'll never get those questions answered now.

Buckeye33
02-09-2006, 07:50 PM
We'll never get those questions answered now.

Haha, I didn't even think about that. Good thinking WOY. To bad.

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 07:51 PM
I thought Bob said he would be "thrilled" if Brad stayed on even if not given the GM job?

I guess he either changed his mind or Brad was upset that he wasn't picked as the permanent GM and decided he would not "mesh" with Krivsky's plan during today's meetings.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 07:51 PM
Well the scuttlebutt was that Brad was getting all GM on the staff the past 2 weeks including wanting everyone to call him "The Dude" or "Dude"

IslandRed
02-09-2006, 07:52 PM
Well, *I'm* surprised, and a little disappointed; I thought Kullman did a good job for the Reds.

On the plus side... we can't tell Krivsky to clean house and then say "except for him and him and him." If there are no sacred cows and Krivsky has complete authority to run the baseball side as he sees fit, that's a good thing, even though we might not like everything that involves. For all I know, he has someone even better lined up.

RFS62
02-09-2006, 07:54 PM
Sweet sassy molassy.

There's a new sheriff in town

WVRed
02-09-2006, 07:56 PM
As much as I'd like to see Kullman stay, I dont think he meshes well with the new regime. Do the Twins have an assistant who is good with sabremetrics?

pedro
02-09-2006, 07:57 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Naehring gone next.

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 07:57 PM
I know that is is only a minor league deal, but I wonder if the Timo Perez signing signifies anything regarding our outfielders? I wouldn't expect him to be starting out there under any circumstance, but it made me look twice.

KittyDuran
02-09-2006, 08:05 PM
Surprised, but not surprised... Krivsky's doing the right thing - even tho' Brad had stated (on Lance's show) that he would like to stay with the Reds - he still was competition for the GM job. Lance is probably crushed...;)

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 08:06 PM
There have been a few additions to the blog:

1.) Brad Kullman has been fired. Can't say I'm surprised by this, but apparently this has happened within the last couple of hours. Talked to him a little before 5 and it sounded like everything was fine.

"The Reds appreciate all of Brad’s efforts in the 11 years he has been here," said Wayne Krivsky. "We’ve decided to make a change, and we wish he and his family well."

Krivsky didn't want to comment any further on the matter.

2.) The Reds have signed -- drumroll, please -- Timo Perez. It's a minor league deal but does not, at this point, carry an invitation to big-league camp. Perez, for the moment, only has a travel visa. Because of that, he cannot play in any games where admission is charged. (Don't ask me, I don't get it either) If the visa situation is resolved, he'll be put in big-league camp and have a chance to make the roster as a bench player.

TeamBoone
02-09-2006, 08:07 PM
Wow! This surprised me a whole lot. I don't think I like it. In my mind, under the right GM, BK would have brought a lot to the table.

Maybe he threw a hissy fit at not being hired? This totally knocks my socks off.

TeamBoone
02-09-2006, 08:08 PM
Am I reading this right? Krivsky fired him?

Wow! He didn't waste any time did he?

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 08:10 PM
Am I reading this right? Krivsky fired him?

Wow! He didn't waste any time did he?

Even more shocking considering where we were coming from in the decision-making department.

Wayne certainly considered all options, but a calendar year didn't have to pass for him to reach his decision. ;)

KronoRed
02-09-2006, 08:14 PM
Sad to see, I liked him.

GAC
02-09-2006, 08:14 PM
Doesn't surprise me. The new guy has the right to put the "pieces" in place that he wants. And regardless of Kullman's individual abilities/talents (or how well some liked him), he was the participant in a failed system. ;)

KronoRed
02-09-2006, 08:16 PM
If he is cleaning house I hope he cleans out quite a few others.

If it's only Kullman then I'll take it as a bad sign.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 08:19 PM
If it's only Kullman then I'll take it as a bad sign.

Bad Sign... everyday someone schleprocks this term out.

I'll take it as a action, something that has been lacking for a long time, if Brad Kullman is so good he should land on his feet. But the fact is there are only so many positions and so many organizations and the track record of this one is bad enough that bad signs aren't going to mean squat at this point.

KronoRed
02-09-2006, 08:27 PM
schleprocks? Yeesh..stop making me google stuff ;)

I like action, but Kullman needs not be the only one polishing up a resume, like you say..this whole organization is bad.

Cooper
02-09-2006, 08:28 PM
I liked Kullman...i thought he was totally marginalized in the past. Imo, it doesn't matter that he was fired as mucch as it matters WHY he was fired. I hope it wasn't for philosophical differences (sabr.vs old school).

Hopefully, Kman has his own sabr. dude.

This should make Team Clark's day.

GAC
02-09-2006, 08:32 PM
I like action, but Kullman needs not be the only one polishing up a resume, like you say..this whole organization is bad.

And can any blame as to why this organization is so bad be laid at Kullman's involvement in that process?

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 08:36 PM
Brad made his bed. Hope he likes how uncomfortable it is.

Bowden will snatch him up. Like I have said in MANY posts Brad is NOT a baseball guy and not a very nice guy altogether. I made mention of the fact that he is known THROUGHOUT baseball as a "punk" and it was his turn on the block today.

Cooper
02-09-2006, 08:37 PM
One other thing...this deal about everyone being fired and then re-hired is such the stuff of old school chicken crap. Is that really best for an organization? no --it's best for a person to establish authority but if you got to hold everyone by the ****s then what kind of "real" authority do you have? You haven't earned it--it's been given to you and if other people have to "give" you authority, your in trouble.

That's not to say some people need to go --they may work overtime sabotaging your efforts, but to literally make everyone turn in their resignation is so patheitc it's beyond words. Take the time, assess, and make the right decision -it's what you are paid for --to rid your company of talent because they aren't yours is silly and way short sighted.

Yachtzee
02-09-2006, 08:37 PM
Well the scuttlebutt was that Brad was getting all GM on the staff the past 2 weeks including wanting everyone to call him "The Dude" or "Dude"

Was he caught ordering "Caucasians" at the Riverfront Club?

Cooper
02-09-2006, 08:39 PM
i've talked with Kullman on 4 different occasions --never seemed like a "punk" to me....

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 08:43 PM
I liked Kullman...i thought he was totally marginalized in the past. Imo, it doesn't matter that he was fired as mucch as it matters WHY he was fired. I hope it wasn't for philosophical differences (sabr.vs old school).

Hopefully, Kman has his own sabr. dude.

This should make Team Clark's day.

I am in the office and two people have checked on me because I laughed so LOUD. Soon as they heard the news they laughed too!!! :laugh: :laugh:

Naehring is next. I think everyone thought my post last night was me kidding. Word has already made it's way down on what is going to happen. They want Tim to fire Grant Griesser his long time buddy who is "Kullman II". What everyone doesn't know is that TIm is tired and doesn't want to do this anymore. This will be Tim's opportunity to say "Well, I can't stand by and let my best friend go" So he'll resign.

What is better than that is that Allen who brought a ton of knuckleheads over from his Columbus Clippers days is also a marked man. His prior escapades and bad behavior have finally made it back to the big man. This means Butcher and his crew are headed out too. They may make it for the season but I already have word that they are out. I posted some of this last fall when I knew Castellini was coming in. I have a a VERY CLOSE source to Mr. C and when I mean CLOSE I mean REAL CLOSE. Everyhting they have told me has happened. So I will give them all the leash they need.

wheels
02-09-2006, 08:43 PM
I hope Dean Taylor and Terry Reynolds are next.

If they aren't, it could tell us alot about Mr. Krivsky.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 08:45 PM
i've talked with Kullman on 4 different occasions --never seemed like a "punk" to me....

I've talked to Brad 50 + times and I would say that depending on the situation and his audience he can be very charming or a real jerk. I have never PERSONALLY had a problem with Brad. I have taken SERIOUS exception to some of the tirades and episodes he ahs been a part of. To people in Baseball he was a real jerk. Cost him today.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 08:48 PM
One other thing...this deal about everyone being fired and then re-hired is such the stuff of old school chicken crap. Is that really best for an organization? no --it's best for a person to establish authority but if you got to hold everyone by the ****s then what kind of "real" authority do you have? You haven't earned it--it's been given to you and if other people have to "give" you authority, your in trouble.

That's not to say some people need to go --they may work overtime sabotaging your efforts, but to literally make everyone turn in their resignation is so patheitc it's beyond words. Take the time, assess, and make the right decision -it's what you are paid for --to rid your company of talent because they aren't yours is silly and way short sighted.

Coop. I agree with this too. Here in Tampa they let EVERYONE go. The only two people left in the Scouting and Player Development office were the two ladies who answer the phones. The one guy who wasn't canned resigned. Weird feeling. The only real person we have to go to is Mitch Lukevics who does a great job. He's been with the D-Rays for many years and has a grasp on all of th eplayers. He's a one armed man in.... well you know the rest.

Cooper
02-09-2006, 08:59 PM
What kind of things did he say to the "baseball" people? Btw, is he not a baseball person cause he has a sabermetric background and not a scouting background? Just curious....cause that the way it seems.

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 09:06 PM
Whether the firing is smart or not depends on what happens after it.

However,calling Kullman not a "baseball guy" seems strange, considering he helped net us the best pitcher in our rotation and the only one who actually pitched "well" last year.

A difference in philosophy shouldn't be enough reason to call him "not a baseball guy."

westofyou
02-09-2006, 09:07 PM
What kind of things did he say to the "baseball" people? Btw, is he not a baseball person cause he has a sabermetric background and not a scouting background? Just curious....cause that the way it seems.

16 years in baseball makes him a "baseball person" being married to a Cy Young winners daughter probably helps too.

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 09:09 PM
I hope Dean Taylor and Terry Reynolds are next.

If they aren't, it could tell us alot about Mr. Krivsky.


Boy, you said a mouthful.

Krivsky's got enough of a meathead tools hangup on his CV to make me question a move like this. If it's a move to clean house, okay, fine, whatever. But if it's a move to rid the place of intelligence, well, color me Biff-ed.

RFS62
02-09-2006, 09:11 PM
Wow, we've gone from "Status Quo" to "Status Whoa!"

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 09:12 PM
Wow, we've gone from "Status Quo" to "Status Whoa!"

More like "Status 'Doh'!" ;)

Well, I bet Kullman is saying that about the status tonight.

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 09:13 PM
Wow, we've gone from "Status Quo" to "Status Whoa!"

Yeah. Let's hope they're not treating the Reds' cancer with dynamite.

Change is only good if it changes things.

RFS62
02-09-2006, 09:14 PM
Blow it up, Wayne.

Make it yours.

Reds4Life
02-09-2006, 09:18 PM
I am in the office and two people have checked on me because I laughed so LOUD. Soon as they heard the news they laughed too!!! :laugh: :laugh:

Naehring is next. I think everyone thought my post last night was me kidding. Word has already made it's way down on what is going to happen. They want Tim to fire Grant Griesser his long time buddy who is "Kullman II". What everyone doesn't know is that TIm is tired and doesn't want to do this anymore. This will be Tim's opportunity to say "Well, I can't stand by and let my best friend go" So he'll resign.

What is better than that is that Allen who brought a ton of knuckleheads over from his Columbus Clippers days is also a marked man. His prior escapades and bad behavior have finally made it back to the big man. This means Butcher and his crew are headed out too. They may make it for the season but I already have word that they are out. I posted some of this last fall when I knew Castellini was coming in. I have a a VERY CLOSE source to Mr. C and when I mean CLOSE I mean REAL CLOSE. Everyhting they have told me has happened. So I will give them all the leash they need.

Any word on Narron? If the firings start flowing you gotta figure Jerry is going to start squirming in his seat pretty good, especially with Piniella lurking in the shadows for 2007.

If Cast really cleans house he's going to be a pretty popular guy in this city. The day Allen gets the boot we need to have a parade.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 09:20 PM
Any word on Narron? If the firings start flowing you gotta figure Jerry is going to start squirming in his seat pretty good, especially with Piniella lurking in the shadows for 2007.

If Cast really cleans house he's going to be a pretty popular guy in this city. The day Allen gets the boot we need to have a parade.

No word on Narron. Several players have gone to bat for Narron and I do know that Castellini likes his demeanor and approach.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 09:22 PM
16 years in baseball makes him a "baseball person" being married to a Cy Young winners daughter probably helps too.


16 years in baseball? Being the "computer guy" for 10-12 + years makes you part of baseball?? C'Mon now. He only ascended to his position because Bowden could trust him. He did not feel that way in the end about McKeon or surprisingly Doc Rodgers. Being promoted by default doesn't mean you did something to deserve it. You and I disagree on a lot but this takes the cake... LOL!

Raisor
02-09-2006, 09:24 PM
Blow it up, Wayne.

Make it yours.


If I was the beer guy in section 345, I'd be pretty scared right now.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 09:25 PM
Being the "computer guy" for 10-12 + years makes you part of baseball??

Dan Evans and Bill James say hi.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 09:28 PM
Whether the firing is smart or not depends on what happens after it.

However,calling Kullman not a "baseball guy" seems strange, considering he helped net us the best pitcher in our rotation and the only one who actually pitched "well" last year.

A difference in philosophy shouldn't be enough reason to call him "not a baseball guy."


What makes you think Brad initiated that deal or closed it? It amaazes me that fans really think Brad was working the phones and orchestrating deals. He did VERY little of that. Leland Maddox did that. Brad reviewed CONTRACTS and finances. Leland made ALL player personalle decisions during the transisiton. I don't know if Erardi or any of those other misquoters made people believe that but it is simply not true.


Brad and I do not "differ" on philosophy. Brad is EXPLOSIVE and very ABRASIVE toward others in this game. His whole being ticks people off in the way he carries himself and REFERS to himself. If Brad was the sliced bread that people thought he was he'd still have job today.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 09:30 PM
Dan Evans and Bill James say hi.

Dan Evans... I'll give you that. Jim Bowden for that matter.

Bill James is not even the same category of what we are talking about. Bill practically invented much of what we discuss.

Even though we tend to disagree you always make excellent points and references.

AND when I say "computer guy" I don't mean STAT cruncher. I mean literally the guy you call when your CPU locks up. Brad was the "IT" guy for years but threw a fit that he didn't have a "more baseball sounding" title.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 09:34 PM
Dan Evans... I'll give you that. Jim Bowden for that matter.

Bill James is not even the same category of what we are talking about. Bill practically invented much of what we discuss.

Even though we tend to disagree you always make excellent points and references.

AND when I say "computer guy" I don't mean STAT cruncher. I mean literally the guy you call when your CPU locks up. Brad was the "IT" guy for years but threw a fit that he didn't have a "more baseball sounding" title.

I lived in the Bay Area when former Red Steve Boros managed the A's, he fell in love with his new computer system... this was 20 years ago.

The press hung him up for it.

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 09:36 PM
What makes you think Brad initiated that deal or closed it? It amaazes me that fans really think Brad was working the phones and orchestrating deals. He did VERY little of that. Leland Maddox did that. Brad reviewed CONTRACTS and finances. Leland made ALL player personalle decisions during the transisiton. I don't know if Erardi or any of those other misquoters made people believe that but it is simply not true.


Brad and I do not "differ" on philosophy. Brad is EXPLOSIVE and very ABRASIVE toward others in this game. His whole being ticks people off in the way he carries himself and REFERS to himself. If Brad was the sliced bread that people thought he was he'd still have job today.

So you are telling me that he had no input in the Guillen for Harang deal? He didn't support the move? If Maddox was orchestrating the deas, does that mean he didn't talk to Kullman about possible deals at all? Kullman sure talked a lot during the transition period to be involved as little as you say he is. He sure seemed to talk like he was part of the Harang deal during all of the talk-radio shows and the like.

As for his personality, maybe he is explosive and abrasive, but at least he knew how to talk to the fans during his short stint as interim GM and he certainly did a good job of trying to make the Harang/Claussen deals sound justified. He seems like much more of a straight-shooter than O'Brien. He also seemed to indicate that he was confident that he could talk trades with other teams over the last few weeks and I haven't heard any comments in the past from other GMs that say they can't stand dealing with him in any capacity.

Oh, and he also graciously agreed to answer all of our questions and concerns had he stayed on with the organization, so that counts for something. :)

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 09:40 PM
I lived in the Bay Area when former Red Steve Boros managed the A's, he fell in love with his new computer system... this was 20 years ago.

The press hung him up for it.


I'd love to sit down and have dinner with you. I bet we would have a ball with some of the off the wall stories.

Cooper
02-09-2006, 09:41 PM
Come on, the guy knew sabermetrics....he was well versed in it. Because he wasn't valued doesn't mean that he didn't have value. There are way too many chats -and articles which prove he knew something about sabermetrics.

Isn't it possible that he knew something about baseball? Isn't it possible that he may have not been an ambassador for sabermetrics and he may not have had an audience that is open to listening to "computer" people?

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 09:42 PM
Everybody's got a connection to the inner-workings of the club. :rolleyes: Team Clark, you've made some very dubious and unverifiable claims in the past--why should we believe you now?

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 09:44 PM
Brad made his bed. Hope he likes how uncomfortable it is.

Bowden will snatch him up. Like I have said in MANY posts Brad is NOT a baseball guy and not a very nice guy altogether. I made mention of the fact that he is known THROUGHOUT baseball as a "punk" and it was his turn on the block today.

Hmmm. Sounds like Jim Bowden Jr.

Cooper
02-09-2006, 09:44 PM
Tell the stories. They'd all be 2nd or 3rd hand right? Cause you never personally had a run in with him have you?

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 09:46 PM
Hmmm. Sounds like Jim Bowden Jr.

Nope.

Bowden is a tools guy. Kullman is a statistics guy.

That alone makes Kullman have more credibility in my book.

How you can call someone who has been with the organization as long as he had "not a baseball guy" is beyond me. Maybe he has some character flaws and wouldn't have made a good leader (GM), but to call him out like this sounds more like a general dislike of him on a personal level than an indictment on his abilities to be a "baseball guy."

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 09:46 PM
So you are telling me that he had no input in the Guillen for Harang deal? He didn't support the move? If Maddox was orchestrating the deas, does that mean he didn't talk to Kullman about possible deals at all? Kullman sure talked a lot during the transition period to be involved as little as you say he is. He sure seemed to talk like he was part of the Harang deal during all of the talk-radio shows and the like.

As for his personality, maybe he is explosive and abrasive, but at least he knew how to talk to the fans during his short stint as interim GM and he certainly did a good job of trying to make the Harang/Claussen deals sound justified. He seems like much more of a straight-shooter than O'Brien. He also seemed to indicate that he was confident that he could talk trades with other teams over the last few weeks and I haven't heard any comments in the past from other GMs that say they can't stand dealing with him in any capacity.

Oh, and he also graciously agreed to answer all of our questions and concerns had he stayed on with the organization, so that counts for something. :)

I'm not saying he wasn't involved. I am saying he gets all or most of the credit for things that he had "little" to do with. Negotiating trades during a fire sale do require all parties involved. The Claussen and Harang pick ups definitely deserve applause. They just don't deserve OVERTURES to one guy.

I'll also give you that he was a straight shooter. Certainly can not argue with that. It's not all that common for GM's to rip one another publicly. Would it make sense to rip Kullman publicly when there was a chance he may get the job? When Jimbo was let go a lot of his detractors came out of the woodwork. He had done some of the same things Brad has done. It will be interesting to see if anybody says anyhting in the press soon. Then again, guys in Kullman's former position usually do not get much press.

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 09:49 PM
I am in the office and two people have checked on me because I laughed so LOUD. Soon as they heard the news they laughed too!!! :laugh: :laugh:

Naehring is next. I think everyone thought my post last night was me kidding. Word has already made it's way down on what is going to happen. They want Tim to fire Grant Griesser his long time buddy who is "Kullman II". What everyone doesn't know is that TIm is tired and doesn't want to do this anymore. This will be Tim's opportunity to say "Well, I can't stand by and let my best friend go" So he'll resign.

What is better than that is that Allen who brought a ton of knuckleheads over from his Columbus Clippers days is also a marked man. His prior escapades and bad behavior have finally made it back to the big man. This means Butcher and his crew are headed out too. They may make it for the season but I already have word that they are out. I posted some of this last fall when I knew Castellini was coming in. I have a a VERY CLOSE source to Mr. C and when I mean CLOSE I mean REAL CLOSE. Everyhting they have told me has happened. So I will give them all the leash they need.

It was reported on 1360 Homer that the issue with John Allen is that Lindner gave him a multiyear deal worth in excess of $1mill before he left and now the new owners are stuck with honoring such a contract. Rather than eat it, they're just going to marginalize him and let him continue on. Have you heard Bob talk about this? Is Allen's contract an issue for them?

StillFunkyB
02-09-2006, 09:50 PM
I don't have a problem with this move at all.

I've been wanting the Reds to clean house for awhile now, I hope it continues. I'm not saying that I want people to lose their jobs. This team has been bad from top to bottom for a long time. I am sure there are some good peoples in the Reds organization, but something needs to change. This is a good start.

I also can't believe that there would be anyone on this board shy of a family member that would think that Naehring should stay. The guy's title is Director of Player Development, and the only thing that's developed is Kremchek's knife time.

I can be patient with the big league club when I have a feeling of hope for the future.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 09:52 PM
Tell the stories. They'd all be 2nd or 3rd hand right? Cause you never personally had a run in with him have you?

No, I have witnessed Brad's antics on MANY occasions. Fortunately he never pulled any of his antics on me. I don't 2nd or 3rd hand to tell you what's going on.

Kc61
02-09-2006, 09:55 PM
Interesting thread. I agree that Timo could be helpful in a backup role.

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 09:55 PM
I'm not saying he wasn't involved. I am saying he gets all or most of the credit for things that he had "little" to do with. Negotiating trades during a fire sale do require all parties involved. The Claussen and Harang pick ups definitely deserve applause. They just don't deserve OVERTURES to one guy.

I'll also give you that he was a straight shooter. Certainly can not argue with that. It's not all that common for GM's to rip one another publicly. Would it make sense to rip Kullman publicly when there was a chance he may get the job? When Jimbo was let go a lot of his detractors came out of the woodwork. He had done some of the same things Brad has done. It will be interesting to see if anybody says anyhting in the press soon. Then again, guys in Kullman's former position usually do not get much press.

OK, but it almost seems to me that your very statements are contradictory. You say he had "little" to do with much, but then say they he is part of the group that deserves applause for the Harang/Claussen moves. If he was a part of that decision-making, that alone makes him a part of something the franchise saw NOTHING of during the Bowden and O'Brien reigns. It makes him seem more like a baseball guy than you want to give him credit for.

As for ripping other GMs, no, that doesn't happen often publicly, but I don't recall anyone saying anything about him immediately following his previous interim GM run and I haven't heard other bad words about him said by anyone in the press up to this point.

Cooper
02-09-2006, 10:00 PM
what were some of the antics? just curious -was he mean to a player? did he give a scout a hard time? was he mean to a secretary?

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 10:01 PM
I don't give Castellini any points for firing Kullman. It's merely a house-cleaning. He'll finally earn points with me if he has the balls to cut Milton. Otherwise, he can go pee up a rope, as far as I'm concerned. He's hired Krivsky, the second least-heinous name on his woefully uninspired GM short list. He's kept Allen. I'm still waiting for the other shoe. So far, he's gotten rid of O'Brien. Which is great, but he's turned around and hired a tools-focused GM and obviously liked heavily a horrible GM in Beattie. He wants to nab Piniella. He wants to bring back the Land of the Dead old-timers nostalgia crew.

Substance, kids. Impress the difficult to impress.

The first time I hear the word "patience" come out of Krivsky's mouth, he's dead to me.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 10:02 PM
Everybody's got a connection to the inner-workings of the club. :rolleyes: Team Clark, you've made some very dubious and unverifiable claims in the past--why should we believe you now?

Really? WOW. When I am guessing I say I am guessing. When I know something is for sure I say it for sure. I have had people blast me on here for commenting on "possible" trades. But that's about as far as being "off" on anything I have been on this site.

I told everyone about Kearns and Dunn falling out of favor with the organization due to their work ethic. I got lambasted for it. A week later the Reds FO is talking about it in the paper. Another 'Zoner sits down with Narron and confirms it. Ohh But TC doesn't know what he's talking about.

I quit posting for a long time because I thought I was putting too much out there. I decided to come back because I realized there were TOO MANY people posting who were just plain guessing and making things up. I knew different and wanted to intervene.

I'm not Gospel. I'll never be 100% right. If I talked about every possible trade, hiring, firing, move, transaction or whatever I'd be Peter Gammons. I'd only be "right" about 2% of the time. Baseball is fluent and deals evaporate as quickly as they are conceived. Do you know how many guys I work with that have been told they had a job in this game only to get the call "it's not in our budget"? We all laugh about it now. Nothing is for sure in this game. I'll just tell you what I know, hear, think... Like any other poster.

If you don't like what I write, don't read it. I will not be offended in the least. Doesn't mean I will not read your posts. WOY, SteelSD, M2 and others disagree with me all the time. They call me into question all the time. AND THEY should!! Disagreement is as much a part of Baseball as foul lines and wooden bats.

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 10:03 PM
what were some of the antics? just curious -was he mean to a player? did he give a scout a hard time? was he mean to a secretary?

This is the part where he clams up to protect the identities and reputations of the innocent.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 10:05 PM
what were some of the antics? just curious -was he mean to a player? did he give a scout a hard time? was he mean to a secretary?

Now you're just being sarcastic.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 10:07 PM
This is the part where he clams up to protect the identities and reputations of the innocent.

Why do I need to clam up? Like I said if the guy was so great then why did he get canned today? Read the posts I have given plenty of examples. Especially his antics a few weeks ago that set Castellini off.

Raisor
02-09-2006, 10:08 PM
Now you're just being sarcastic.



I bet he shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.

:devil:

Cooper
02-09-2006, 10:11 PM
just one specific example of brad being a "punk"...that's all i ask. give me that and i'll shut up.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 10:12 PM
I bet he shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.

:devil:

You're killin' me. Good to see you Raisor.

Reminds me of when I first started posting and no one believed I was part of MLB. So I posted my credentials. LOL! That's how RFS62 and I became friends. A year later 'Zoners were waving to me on the field before games. What a 180 huh?

westofyou
02-09-2006, 10:12 PM
Where and when he lands should help fudge out some of the questions about Brads acumen or lack of.

But seeing how ST starts soon enough for me to taste it I don't see him hooking up quickly, and as TC has stated he's not a scout.. those guys get canned and then spend the whole summer watching games and collecting the old salary as well as the new.

And that folks is the life of a "baseball guy" the game is made up with mostly ex-players who are all looking out for each other. The lawyers sneaking into the GM offices are easier to deal with since they are usually your boss.

Everyone else has a chance to be Dan Evans or more likely Milton Waddams

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 10:12 PM
just one specific example of brad being a "punk"...that's all i ask. give me that and i'll shut up.

Yeah, you lose a little ethos when you call someone you barely know a "punk."

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 10:17 PM
You're killin' me. Good to see you Raisor.

Reminds me of when I first started posting and no one believed I was part of MLB. So I posted my credentials. LOL! That's how RFS62 and I became friends. A year later 'Zoners were waving to me on the field before games. What a 180 huh?

Dude, I know you're involved with the Reds, or were. I'm not disputing that--it's just that your accounts, well, I'll be nice,--you totally stack the deck. You don't give specifics, you just engage in ad hominem attacks and talk about "fits" or "work ethics." You're a gossip--every office has one. Just be specific and hold back on the evaluative terms like "fit" and "punk" and "jerk"--and let people decide for themselves.

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 10:17 PM
Nope.

Bowden is a tools guy. Kullman is a statistics guy.

That alone makes Kullman have more credibility in my book.

How you can call someone who has been with the organization as long as he had "not a baseball guy" is beyond me. Maybe he has some character flaws and wouldn't have made a good leader (GM), but to call him out like this sounds more like a general dislike of him on a personal level than an indictment on his abilities to be a "baseball guy."

I wasn't referring to his philosophy on running a baseball team. I was referring to this:


Like I have said in MANY posts Brad is NOT a baseball guy and not a very nice guy altogether. I made mention of the fact that he is known THROUGHOUT baseball as a "punk" and it was his turn on the block today.

I was talking about his persona. If he has an abrasive personality that turns people off he will eventually wear thin on people even if he does good things initially. This was Jim Bowden's downfall. He just made too enemies and then he had to go.

reds44
02-09-2006, 10:17 PM
Think Narron's job is safe?

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 10:21 PM
I was talking about his persona. If he has an abrasive personality that turns people off he will eventually wear thin on people even if he does good things initially. This was Jim Bowden's downfall. He just made too enemies and then he had to go.

But the quote you quoted talked about the "baseball guy" issue. I thought you were including that as part of your reply to the quote.

Cooper
02-09-2006, 10:21 PM
Narron's fine...he's a baseball guy.

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 10:22 PM
Think Narron's job is safe?

I think Narron will be around for the year unless the team starts off very poorly.

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 10:25 PM
I think Narron will be around for the year unless the team starts off very poorly.

I think it's safe to say the team is going to start off poorly.

Sea Ray
02-09-2006, 10:28 PM
Dude, I know you're involved with the Reds, or were. I'm not disputing that--it's just that your accounts, well, I'll be nice,--you totally stack the deck. You don't give specifics, you just engage in ad hominem attacks and talk about "fits" or "work ethics." You're a gossip--every office has one. Just be specific and hold back on the evaluative terms like "fit" and "punk" and "jerk"--and let people decide for themselves.

TC's just giving his opinion. I'm sure he has his reasons. I doubt it's because Brad hit on his wife at the Christmas party.

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 10:29 PM
TC's just giving his opinion. I'm sure he has his reasons. I doubt it's because Brad hit on his wife at the Christmas party.

No, he's not just giving his opinion. He's giving his opinion and passing it off as fact.

ochre
02-09-2006, 10:35 PM
the really important thing here is being skipped.

Timo freaking Perez?


year club league age avg obp slg ops
2003 New York Mets NL 26 .269 .301 .364 665
2004 Chi White Sox AL 27 .246 .285 .338 623
2005 Chi White Sox AL 28 .218 .266 .296 562

ochre
02-09-2006, 10:36 PM
the really important thing here is being skipped.

Timo freaking Perez?


year club league age avg obp slg ops
2003 New York Mets NL 26 .269 .301 .364 665
2004 Chi White Sox AL 27 .246 .285 .338 623
2005 Chi White Sox AL 28 .218 .266 .296 562


oh. I figured it out, he's a former league leader:


Sac. Flies
2003 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/L/NL_2003_t.shtml)-9-2

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 10:37 PM
the really important thing here is being skipped.

Timo freaking Perez?


year club league age avg obp slg ops
2003 New York Mets NL 26 .269 .301 .364 665
2004 Chi White Sox AL 27 .246 .285 .338 623
2005 Chi White Sox AL 28 .218 .266 .296 562


Yep. Castro country.

Heebie Jeebies.

redsfan30
02-09-2006, 10:39 PM
I was about to start a seperate thread on Perez, ochre.

Looks to me like Timo Perez and Tony Womack are cut from the same cloth.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 10:39 PM
just one specific example of brad being a "punk"...that's all i ask. give me that and i'll shut up.

Ok. Bobby Wine from the Braves was in town looking at a couple of players for a possible deadline deal. The Braves were interested in John Rieldling and Chris Reitsma at the time. Anyway, Bobby was on the field before the game chatting it up with some guys behind the cage. He's got a full set of credentials so he has every right to be on the field. I am standing next to Tim Naehring. Brad walks up to Tim and says "What the #@#^ is Bobby Wine doin' here"? Tim says "Schuerholz sent him up to look at a couple pitchers" Brad goes INSANE. "$%^&* that, he can't be on the field" Tim says "Why not", "He's got credentials and we may want to get this deal done", "Leave him alone"

Well all was not well in the land of Kullman. Brad goes over to Wine and YELLS at him before he even gets to him. "What the %$& are you doin' on the field", "What, you don't like the seats we left for ya"? Bobby is in shock. I think everybody was. Bobby is highly respected and not to mention he has every right to be on the field. It's not even a courtesy issue he has a full set of credentials. Bobby is pissed and starts jawing Kullman.

Kullman calls SECURITY over to remove Bobby Wine from the field!!!!! You got to be kidding me? The security guys don't know what to do because Bobby is allowed to be there. Brad gets even more heated and is PULLING on his credentials screaming "I'm Brad Kullman, you do what I tell you". Bobby agrees to leave. (He actually packed up his stuff and flew back to Atlanta) Naehring and I walked off the field and Kullman catches up with us and says "Got that Mothe#$@! didn't I"? This happened and I'll never forget it.

missionhockey21
02-09-2006, 10:41 PM
the really important thing here is being skipped.

Timo freaking Perez?


year club league age avg obp slg ops
2003 New York Mets NL 26 .269 .301 .364 665
2004 Chi White Sox AL 27 .246 .285 .338 623
2005 Chi White Sox AL 28 .218 .266 .296 562

Timo Perez and Tony Womack, the new face of the Reds. Who needs OBP and SLG% of anysorts when you're scrappy?

But seriously, how did this guy get nearly 200 AB's last year? If the Reds promote this guy at anytime during the season, we're in even more trouble than we think we're in now.

traderumor
02-09-2006, 10:49 PM
Ok. Bobby Wine from the Braves was in town looking at a couple of players for a possible deadline deal. The Braves were interested in John Rieldling and Chris Reitsma at the time. Anyway, Bobby was on the field before the game chatting it up with some guys behind the cage. He's got a full set of credentials so he has every right to be on the field. I am standing next to Tim Naehring. Brad walks up to Tim and says "What the #@#^ is Bobby Wine doin' here"? Tim says "Schuerholz sent him up to look at a couple pitchers" Brad goes INSANE. "$%^&* that, he can't be on the field" Tim says "Why not", "He's got credentials and we may want to get this deal done", "Leave him alone"

Well all was not well in the land of Kullman. Brad goes over to Wine and YELLS at him before he even gets to him. "What the %$& are you doin' on the field", "What, you don't like the seats we left for ya"? Bobby is in shock. I think everybody was. Bobby is highly respected and not to mention he has every right to be on the field. It's not even a courtesy issue he has a full set of credentials. Bobby is pissed and starts jawing Kullman.

Kullman calls SECURITY over to remove Bobby Wine from the field!!!!! You got to be kidding me? The security guys don't know what to do because Bobby is allowed to be there. Brad gets even more heated and is PULLING on his credentials screaming "I'm Brad Kullman, you do what I tell you". Bobby agrees to leave. (He actually packed up his stuff and flew back to Atlanta) Naehring and I walked off the field and Kullman catches up with us and says "Got that Mothe#$@! didn't I"? This happened and I'll never forget it.
All I know is that the expansion Expos traded Maury Wills back to the Dodgers and made Bobby Wine their starting shortstop in 1969 and the dude could neither field nor hit at that point in his career. So he clearly deserved it ;)

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 10:50 PM
All I know is that the expansion Expos traded Maury Wills back to the Dodgers and made Bobby Wine their starting shortstop in 1969 and the dude could neither field nor hit at that point in his career. So he clearly deserved it ;)

LOL! That's funny... :laugh:

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 10:58 PM
gee...I gave some facts, specific accounts (sorry couldn't remember the date) and you guys get all clammed up???? Hello?????? Must be that darn TC again....

traderumor
02-09-2006, 10:59 PM
LOL! That's funny... :laugh:

How about .200/.256/.251 in 370 ABs. That's right, he OPSd .507. Not only that, he was a 3e44 fielder in Strat, which roughly means average/below average range and 44 errors extrapolated to 162 games. That's ugly. Kullman, being the stats guy, knew all that and knew the guy had no business ever being on a baseball field and was going to right the wrong right then and there.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 11:01 PM
How about .200/.256/.251 in 370 ABs. That's right, he OPSd .507. Not only that, he was a 3e44 fielder in Strat, which roughly means average/below average range and 44 errors extrapolated to 162 games. That's ugly. Kullman, being the stats guy, knew all that and knew the guy had no business ever being on a baseball field and was going to right the wrong right then and there.

LOL!! My ribs hurt... STOP!!!!!!!!!

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 11:03 PM
gee...I gave some facts, specific accounts (sorry couldn't remember the date) and you guys get all clammed up???? Hello?????? Must be that darn TC again....

So he was a tool to a scout, so what? What does that have to do with his acumen as a numbers man or a baseball mind? You seem to want to make his interpersonal behaviors bleed into his ability to perform a baseball job. YOU don't like the guy, so you want to see everything about him as bad. You call the guy "Manson" in another thread on the other baseball board. Like I said earlier, your ethos isn't your strong suit.

Cooper
02-09-2006, 11:04 PM
News at 11:00 ...Kullman fired, Wine finally gets justice.

Cooper
02-09-2006, 11:07 PM
Did you just refer to yourself in the 3rd person?

It took ya 84 posts to actually post a specific event --it took that long for ya to specifically mention what the heck you were talking about and now we aren't responding quick enough. please. Cooper loses respect.

westofyou
02-09-2006, 11:08 PM
You seem to want to make his interpersonal behaviors bleed into his ability to perform a baseball job.

Paul DePodesta pick up the Red Courtesy Phone.

Larry McPhail was a loud drunk who punched Powell Crosley, Branch Rickey was a pompous arse who counted the receipts on Sunday but wouldn't go to the game.. I could go on but you get the point.

Everyone is an arse in their own special way.

traderumor
02-09-2006, 11:09 PM
So he was a tool to a scout, so what? What does that have to do with his acumen as a numbers man or a baseball mind? You seem to want to make his interpersonal behaviors bleed into his ability to perform a baseball job. YOU don't like the guy, so you want to see everything about him as bad. You call the guy "Manson" in another thread on the other baseball board. Like I said earlier, your ethos isn't your strong suit.
I'd say that's not the type of person you want running an already downtrodden franchise who has gained a rep around the league, and deservedly so, of being a Mickey Mouse operation.

RFS62
02-09-2006, 11:10 PM
Marc just updated his blog...




Just talked briefly with Brad Kullman, who was kind enough to call me back on a difficult night. He was still pretty emotional, but gracious to the Reds and to Krivsky. There was no cloak-and-dagger treachery at work here; Krivsky simply wants to put his own people in place, and one person he apparently has in mind would be in the job Kullman was doing.

"He could have stuck me down the hall and told me, 'You can be the computer guy. If you donít like it, quit,'" said Kullman. "He didnít do that to me, and I definitely appreciate that."

Kullman mentioned that he was thankful Dan O'Brien gave him a shot to stay on in a significant role two years ago, even though the two had no prior ties. Most of the people in every front office in baseball serve at the pleasure of the GM at the time, and they all know any change at the top inevitably has a trickle-down effect. Kullman survived it in 2003, but not this time.

"I respect that part of the game and understand it," he said. "But it doesnít make it any easier."

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 11:11 PM
Paul DePodesta pick up the Red Courtesy Phone.

Larry McPhail was a loud drunk who punched Powell Crosley, Branch Rickey was a pompous arse who counted the receipts on Sunday but wouldn't go to the game.. I could go on but you get the point.

Everyone is an arse in their own special way.

Truer words could not have been spoken.

I love how Wine who was Special Asst. to the GM was referred to as a "scout". Wow. Schuerholz is probably a bat boy and Cashman a great clubbie.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 11:12 PM
Marc just updated his blog...




Just talked briefly with Brad Kullman, who was kind enough to call me back on a difficult night. He was still pretty emotional, but gracious to the Reds and to Krivsky. There was no cloak-and-dagger treachery at work here; Krivsky simply wants to put his own people in place, and one person he apparently has in mind would be in the job Kullman was doing.

"He could have stuck me down the hall and told me, 'You can be the computer guy. If you donít like it, quit,'" said Kullman. "He didnít do that to me, and I definitely appreciate that."

Kullman mentioned that he was thankful Dan O'Brien gave him a shot to stay on in a significant role two years ago, even though the two had no prior ties. Most of the people in every front office in baseball serve at the pleasure of the GM at the time, and they all know any change at the top inevitably has a trickle-down effect. Kullman survived it in 2003, but not this time.

"I respect that part of the game and understand it," he said. "But it doesnít make it any easier."

Now see that's classy.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 11:15 PM
I'd say that's not the type of person you want running an already downtrodden franchise who has gained a rep around the league, and deservedly so, of being a Mickey Mouse operation.

What's worse is Falls City apparently thinks it's OK what Brad did.

Falls... you and I have been posting here a long time. I'm not sure why you want to make this Kullman vs. TC. I have 10 instances that are worse than I what I just told you and that is why I don't care to see him in Baseball. And you know what... in some instances I do need to protect some of my "sources". I'm not sure why you can't understand that. Kullman will have a job in DC by the weekend. I think anybody would be shocked if that didn't happen.

alexad
02-09-2006, 11:15 PM
Team Clark

I have been reading and posting on this site for awhile. I have always felt you had the inside on what was going on and I always looked forward to what you had to say. You never got on here and bragged, you gave us inside info we probably should not have know about.

I appreciate that. I have been a Reds fan since I was 3 and that makes a very long 33 years. I used to listen to the Reds on a little trans radio. I can still remember the rain delays in San Fran and Marty talking about how great of an outfielder George Foster was.

You have been right on during trade deadlines and in fact gave us details from the press box that we would not have even known had been discussed let alone be interested.

You have never gave false info. Things do change and even when you have said something was going down, I believe it was at the time of your posting, but changed, because that is baseball and not everyone is entitled to every detail. When this happened, you aplologized and we went on.

I am sorry to know you have moved on to Tampa?, but happy that you are living a dream that most of us could only dream about.

I spent 15 years in the radio media in a small market station in Athens, Ohio. I loved every minute of being able to be on the field with a press pass when I had the opportunity to attend a game. The Reds went out of there way to assist me knowing I was not there every game to cover, but just a visitor of an affilliate station who carries Reds games.

I can not explain the feeling of being on the field and just watching what happens. Maybe some of us in here are very jealous of what you have to on a daily basis.

I hope you can continue to fill us in on what you may come across to keep the true Reds fans updated. You are right about not being right 100% of the time, but I would say 100% of the time you only give us info that you have heard to be true information. Again baseball is a funny game and things change by the second.

I again want to say thank you for what you do on here. I love to have the opportunity to get info fast about the Reds and I visit this site daily, not always posting, but when I do post, I try to give it my all.

Falls City Beer
02-09-2006, 11:16 PM
I'd say that's not the type of person you want running an already downtrodden franchise who has gained a rep around the league, and deservedly so, of being a Mickey Mouse operation.

Yeah, I guess reputations important, but again--does Kullman act that way to other GMs? Does he treat everyone around him like that? We're taking one incident and creating a Frankenstein out of Kullman. I'd hardly like to be treated in that fashion.

The Reds are a Mickey Mouse operation for a number of reasons--the least of which, from where I'm sitting, is the interpersonal behavior of Brad Kullman. Bowden, by comparison, didn't suck cuz he was a schmuck--he sucked because he couldn't identify talent.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 11:18 PM
Did you just refer to yourself in the 3rd person?

It took ya 84 posts to actually post a specific event --it took that long for ya to specifically mention what the heck you were talking about and now we aren't responding quick enough. please. Cooper loses respect.

Well you took it upon yourself to bash me and say I don't give specifics when I do, you did everything but call me a liar. What is your problem? You don't like what I have to say? You don't like the fact that I have a job in MLB? Maybe you don't like my posts about Browning after what I saw him do to several kids? OK. Great. Not everyone on this board agrees with everyone. Why can't you be respectful?

Cooper
02-09-2006, 11:18 PM
His response doesn't quite fit with the indictment -does it?

Getting fired is number 3 on the stress list, yet he handles it with grace.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 11:19 PM
Yeah, I guess reputations important, but again--does Kullman act that way to other GMs? Does he treat everyone around him like that? We're taking one incident and creating a Frankenstein out of Kullman. I'd hardly like to be treated in that fashion.

The Reds are a Mickey Mouse operation for a number of reasons--the least of which, from where I'm sitting, is the interpersonal behavior of Brad Kullman. Bowden, by comparison, didn't suck cuz he was a schmuck--he sucked because he couldn't identify talent.

I hate to tell you this is one of MANY instances. MANY. I have witnessed MANY and been told of MANY MANY more. What I posted was not a one time deal.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 11:21 PM
His response doesn't quite fit with the indictment -does it?

Getting fired is number 3 on the stress list, yet he handles it with grace.

He did handle it with Grace. We've all been in that spot. It's tough. Who wants to make that phone call to a spouse that they have just been canned? I don't. I've done it. Sucks. I'm just shocked that a lot of people didn't see it coming NO MATTER the circumstance.

flyer85
02-09-2006, 11:22 PM
I hate to tell you this is one of MANY instances. MANY. I have witnessed MANY and been told of MANY MANY more. What I posted was not a one time deal.Point made, you think he is a first class jerk. He may well be, I don't know him. What I do know is that he's gone. Let's move on.

GIK
02-09-2006, 11:23 PM
Too bad. Brad was very easy going in the emails we shot back and forth the past week+. Even invited me down to Spring Training to hang out with him for a bit. I'm sure he'll find a job and I see no need to kick the guy while he's down.

Good luck, Brad.

Cooper
02-09-2006, 11:24 PM
I said i would drop it if you gave specifics...you kindly did and then went out of your way to mention a lack of responses ...i felt it deserved a response cause you went out of your way to show me up when i graciously reported i would not respond.

lastly, ihave no idea what you are talking about re: browning --why would you even name drop?

Cooper
02-09-2006, 11:36 PM
i need to move on --Team Clark --you are decent person --i can tell you are by the company you keep (rfs62 is a about as good as a person can be).

kullman's gone and hopefully they'll get another sabermetric dude who knows the scouting end also...i'm hoping this fella/gal does the reds right.

take care.

CincyRedsFan30
02-09-2006, 11:37 PM
TC,

I just wanted to let you know that I respect your opinion, even if I don't seem to agree with you on everything.

I was just trying to get some perspective here because I hadn't heard anything bad about Kullman and I was impressed by what I considered his "baseball mind" from what all I've heard about him in different situations.

Thanks for giving a specific example of your point. It's well taken. I still am not convinced he was that bad of a baseball guy, but I can see where you are coming from too.

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 11:41 PM
Coop, Cincy... couldn't agree more. I think we all find a way to agree to disagree. Coop I threw some jabs because I felt you got a little personal. I have nothing against you and hope that you truly have not lost any respect for me. The guy is gone and Baseball is a week away. We have more to look forward to than regret.

I only mentioned Browning because I took so much heat for the comments I made about coaching with him on another thread. I found it strange people were standing up for guy that I knew truly was a "frankenstein".

Team Clark
02-09-2006, 11:45 PM
TC,

I just wanted to let you know that I respect your opinion, even if I don't seem to agree with you on everything.

I was just trying to get some perspective here because I hadn't heard anything bad about Kullman and I was impressed by what I considered his "baseball mind" from what all I've heard about him in different situations.

Thanks for giving a specific example of your point. It's well taken. I still am not convinced he was that bad of a baseball guy, but I can see where you are coming from too.


Thanks. Keep in mind I pointed out a lot of the GOOD Kullman did for the organization in another thread. He brought some things to the table, his explosiveness just cost him his job. Maybe he needs to get that straightened out. Who knows? I do appreciate the kind words and you know I enjoy your posts.

Ron Madden
02-09-2006, 11:52 PM
I liked most of what I've read or heard from Brad Kullman.

I wish him nothing but the best.

DoogMinAmo
02-09-2006, 11:56 PM
Thanks. Keep in mind I pointed out a lot of the GOOD Kullman did for the organization in another thread. He brought some things to the table, his explosiveness just cost him his job. Maybe he needs to get that straightened out. Who knows? I do appreciate the kind words and you know I enjoy your posts.


I also wanted to thank you TC for the past, present and future contributions. Just curious, what thread was it that had Brad Kullman's strengths? I would like to see them to weigh the good vs. bad.

reds44
02-10-2006, 12:03 AM
Watch Timo make the team and be the backup 1st baseman.

DoogMinAmo
02-10-2006, 12:05 AM
Watch Timo make the team and be the backup 1st baseman.

Better Timo on the Reds than Kimo on the Bengals. :confused:

Cyclone792
02-10-2006, 12:07 AM
TC, you seem to be catching a lot of flak in this thread so I'd just like to point out that I thoroughly enjoy your posts and viewpoint. You have a perspective that's likely different than any other poster on this forum so I'm always interested to read what you've got to say. As always, thanks for your insight on Kullman and other past and potential happenings within the front office.

Heck, if I made a short list of the posters I'd love to sit down, have a beer and talk baseball with ... TC would be on that list.

As far as my take on Kullman, it's probably yet to be seen if this turns out to be a wise decision or not. It seems that much of the information on Kullman (especially regarding the transactions that occurred during the 2003 trade deadline) are ambiguous at best, and it's plausible that few people outside of baseball have a grasp on how equipped he was to be in his position. He supposedly leaned toward the sabr crowd, but how much, and what exactly did he know/believe within the sabr crowd? I'm a sabr guy myself, but not all sabr guys are the same mold, that's for sure, and some of the biggest baseball related arguments I've ever seen were between two sabr guys.

WVRedsFan
02-10-2006, 12:10 AM
Coop, Cincy... couldn't agree more. I think we all find a way to agree to disagree. Coop I threw some jabs because I felt you got a little personal. I have nothing against you and hope that you truly have not lost any respect for me. The guy is gone and Baseball is a week away. We have more to look forward to than regret.

I only mentioned Browning because I took so much heat for the comments I made about coaching with him on another thread. I found it strange people were standing up for guy that I knew truly was a "frankenstein".

TC, a lot of folks were rooting for the guy because he went out of his way to campaign for the job with fans. He was on his best behavior. He gave interviews everywhere and was so different-sounding from Dan O'Brien and Jim Bowden and he was sort of local and some fans embraced him. I seem to remember him taking credit for the Guillen for Harang swap and the Boone for Claussen swap. I always thought it was a stretch since the press called it a "team move." It's a shock to hear these things to those people because they liked what they saw and he appeared to embrace their philosophy of baseball.

Not one person on here really knew Brad or what he was really like. You witnessed things first hand. And I've had some personal dealings with you that makes me know that you would not fabricate this or the Browning story for that matter.

The day that Wayne K got the job it was obvious that Kullman was history. And, like to say, it's not long until the rest of the FO is a memory. Good. Failure should never be rewarded. And we've had five years of just that.

Like RFS62 says, "Blow it up Wayne."

Krusty
02-10-2006, 12:18 AM
Why do I need to clam up? Like I said if the guy was so great then why did he get canned today? Read the posts I have given plenty of examples. Especially his antics a few weeks ago that set Castellini off.

Hey TC, I love what you post man. Don't stop now because someone questions you.

Krusty
02-10-2006, 12:22 AM
So he was a tool to a scout, so what? What does that have to do with his acumen as a numbers man or a baseball mind? You seem to want to make his interpersonal behaviors bleed into his ability to perform a baseball job. YOU don't like the guy, so you want to see everything about him as bad. You call the guy "Manson" in another thread on the other baseball board. Like I said earlier, your ethos isn't your strong suit.

Easy man. Some of this might have been true. The Reds wouldn't fire Kullman for nothing.

Team Clark
02-10-2006, 12:29 AM
I appreciate the comments. Good to hear from Krusty. You too WV. Cyclone I'm not a beer drinker but I'd still love to sit down with you. Nothing like talking baseball. RFS called me tonight. I'm not sure I know too many people better than RFS. You know he has met Sandy Koufax? I'd sell RFS's house to meet Sandy!! LOL! The old gang back together. We just need GAC, Creek, Team Boone and a few others and it will be like old times... LOL!!

Krusty
02-10-2006, 12:30 AM
Frankly, I think anyone who was hired under the Jim Bowden regime will be shown the door by Krivsky. I think O'Brien put the foundation in place by hiring scouts and player development people during his two years which Krivsky might keep in place. But it wouldn't surprise me to see the likes of Naehring and Maddox shown the door.

Doc. Scott
02-10-2006, 12:44 AM
Heck, if I made a short list of the posters I'd love to sit down, have a beer and talk baseball with ... TC would be on that list.


I have, and it was fun. (And I, for one, am glad TC is back in baseball and not still attempting to run a bar or do financial stuff.) I'll freely admit it- it's fun to read about the "other side". It helps give a lot of perspective on why things happen... otherwise it would have looked like an incongruity or a simple case of sour grapes when we heard of Kullman's dismissal.

I personally am glad Kullman did not get the GM job because of reasons I've stated several times in multiple places, but still wish him well and hope he goes on to do some greater things.

GriffeyFan
02-10-2006, 12:47 AM
TC,
I appreciate the info and I agree with a lot of your opinions. I have worked on the "inside" on a much, much smaller level (mid-major college) in the sports information department and it's amazing the amount of info that fans don't know, nor should they probably. I'm just saying you'll see or hear sometimes a fan talking about a player or a coach who is the greatest person in the world, but wow, sometimes there are big surprises behind the scenes.

I have no reason to doubt your story about Kullman. If that's the type of guy he is, good riddance.

KronoRed
02-10-2006, 01:25 AM
oh. I figured it out, he's a former league leader:


Sac. Flies
2003 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/L/NL_2003_t.shtml)-9-2

Of course, that will help the pitching ;)

Crash Davis
02-10-2006, 01:45 AM
Where and when he lands should help fudge out some of the questions about Brads acumen or lack of.

But seeing how ST starts soon enough for me to taste it I don't see him hooking up quickly, and as TC has stated he's not a scout.. those guys get canned and then spend the whole summer watching games and collecting the old salary as well as the new.

And that folks is the life of a "baseball guy" the game is made up with mostly ex-players who are all looking out for each other. The lawyers sneaking into the GM offices are easier to deal with since they are usually your boss.

Everyone else has a chance to be Dan Evans or more likely Milton Waddams

I'll bet you a 6-pack of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale that his MLB front office opportunities for 2006 are either:

1. Carrying Bowden's dry cleaning around again.

or

B. That's it. That's the list.

Caveat Emperor
02-10-2006, 02:02 AM
My take on this subject is pretty simple: Krivsky is the man now, and he deserves to sink or swim with the exact cast of people that he wants to help run the show. I always liked Kullman as a straight-talking guy who didn't pull punches when it came to discussing the reality surrounding the Reds, and I was excited by the involvement that he might have with the message board.

However, just reading TC's stuff (which I greatly enjoy -- it's absolutely awesome to get a first hand view of even some of the inside stuff that goes on inside an organization, and I'm always excited to read what he has to say), I can easily see how he could be a combustible personality. I imagine working for a ballclub when your background isn't one of being a former big leaguer or a well-known stat cruncher or "baseball mind" would have a tendency to create the "little man" complex, with a need to be highly territorial of your authority and ever suspicious of more traditional "baseball people" being brought in to replace you.

This is extremely healthy for the franchise. It is important that they have a clean break with the failed regimes of the Linder-era and start fresh in every aspect. The players, coaches, and fans need to see new faces implementing new plans in order for everyone to truly believe that something different is going on as opposed to more of the same.

Now we'll really see what Krivsky is made of!

Aronchis
02-10-2006, 03:35 AM
Krivsky seems to have some kind of lovechild thing going on with these Castro types(or in Timo's case, he wished he were Castro lol!).

pedro
02-10-2006, 03:37 AM
krivsky is the man now. he deserves the chance to bring in his own people in.

StillFunkyB
02-10-2006, 05:01 AM
I don't understand why there is all this support for Kullman.

So, playing OOTP since v3 makes you a "baseball guy"? :evil:

Ok, kidding aside, what has he really done? Absolutely nothing. So he was INVOLVED with landing a couple of decent players during a firesale. Harang was an odd man out in the A's org. from what I can recall. Claussen was coming off an arm injury. These trades get alot more praise than I think they deserve. Sure Harang has been good for us, but he is a #3 at best. Claussen really hasn't done a whole lot to hoot about yet.

Anyway, thanks for your insight TC, be it right or wrong, I appreciate the info.

MikeS21
02-10-2006, 06:39 AM
I have always enjoyed TC's insights and tidbits that he has shared. He's allowed us a small glimpse into the inner workings of a baseball front office - a place most of us will never see. He has always maintained that that information is fluid and changes from one moment to the next. And I imagine getting accurate information out of this wishy-washy FO over the last several years hasn't been easy. The only way to avoid conjecture is to refrain from tipping RedsZone off until something actually happens. 95% of the reason I come to this board is for the rumors and the conjecture. That's where all the fun is. If you want actual factual events, wait until it happens and read the AP wire. Keep the stuff coming, TC!

As for Kullman, I'm fine with it as long as his firing is the result of Krivsky bringing in his own sabermetrics guy. But if this is Krivsky's way of purging statistical analysis out of the organization, then we've got a problem.

The reason this troubles me is because when you look at Krivsky's background, neither the Rangers nor the Twins have shown any leanings toward sabermetrics. And it is bothersome when Krivsky describes himself as "old school."

I certainly hope there is room in this organization for two or three 25-year old Ivy-League computer-literate sabermaticians.

TeamCasey
02-10-2006, 06:43 AM
He's TCII ........ The original TC has breasts! :laugh: ;)

Was reading through some of this and saw that Team Clark was getting pummeled. He can hold his own but I wanted to say that I appreciate his and his Dad's contributions. Hang in there, II. :)

buckeyenut
02-10-2006, 07:18 AM
I have, and it was fun. (And I, for one, am glad TC is back in baseball and not still attempting to run a bar or do financial stuff.) I'll freely admit it- it's fun to read about the "other side". It helps give a lot of perspective on why things happen... otherwise it would have looked like an incongruity or a simple case of sour grapes when we heard of Kullman's dismissal.
Ain't that the truth. But a guy's gotta work ;)

You know, TC, I appreciate the fact you stick around here. You seem to have to deal with crap like this once a month. I for one like to read the personal side of things since we get the analytical side here since that is all we can do since none of us know these people.

So, are you still here in CIN and just travelling to Tampa a lot? Or do you have to move down there when the season starts?

lollipopcurve
02-10-2006, 07:19 AM
Yeah, you lose a little ethos when you call someone you barely know a "punk."

Yeah, meanwhile, players are called "crap," "garbage," "pile of dung," etc etc etc

RANDY IN INDY
02-10-2006, 07:46 AM
After reading through this thread, I think it's real interesting how some people are bashing TC for having something that contributes to his posts other than an opinion---------an actual connection inside the game. I truly appreciate your posts, TC. They are refreshing and certainly a welcome change from all the posts that are based solely on speculation. Keep them coming. I think the majority appreciates your connection. I know I do.

The story on Wine was real interesting to me. I spent some time with Wine at the Fantasy camp, a few years back, and I'm surprised he didn't let Kullman have it. Bobby has one of the most biting baseball tongues that I have ever been around, and can dish it out with the best of them. Wine came across as being a very sharp baseball mind and talent evaluator. He also was the "judge" of the kangaroo court. Great guy.

As far as Kullman goes, you can be self serving, arrogant, tick people off and survive as long as you are kissing the behind of the sherriff. When a new one arrives, your past deeds can be the kiss of death.

lollipopcurve
02-10-2006, 08:31 AM
I truly appreciate your posts, TC. They are refreshing and certainly a welcome change from all the posts that are based solely on speculation. Keep them coming. I think the majority appreciates your connection.

Seconded, or thirty-thirded, amen.

traderumor
02-10-2006, 08:40 AM
I'll just add that I gave TC some crap when he first started posting again about his insider status, but he handled it very well and gave me reason to believe he was credible. Keep hangin' around, TC, I seek out your posts to see if you have any scoop.

RFS62
02-10-2006, 08:49 AM
I think the reason a lot of people are upset at the Kullman firing is that he represented sabermetric evaluation to many posters here.

He was the one guy in the organization who personified the idea of a statistical approach to player evaluation. And he got a lot of credit during the fire sale, although what part he played in those deals was never spelled out very clearly, or at least I missed it if it was.

He was the face of the sabermetric revolution in the Reds front office. At least, from what I've read over the years, he seemed to have that reputation around here.

If he's qualified, he'll get another shot in baseball. I wish him well.

It doesn't bother me that Krivsky wants his own team in place. In fact, I like it. We don't know yet how he'll weigh sabermetrics vs. scouting. I don't see this as an indictment of his respect for sabermetrics.

A new broom sweeps clean. Blow it up, Wayne.

Make it yours.

creek14
02-10-2006, 08:58 AM
This thread makes my head hurt.

deltachi8
02-10-2006, 09:04 AM
I think this will be good for Kullman.

Im just being patient with the Krivster to see where it all leads, but i do have to echo one thought...Timo flippin Perez?

flyer85
02-10-2006, 09:04 AM
This thread makes my head hurt.yep, the dogs have been raising their legs but nothing else is coming out.

ochre
02-10-2006, 09:49 AM
That Kullman was fired doesn't really matter much in the big picture. What matters is where they go from here. Several of O'Brien's moves in isolation were decent, or at least could have been rationalized out to be, had there been a cognizant plan, or system. I think its important for the new 'Dude' to be able to create his own team. I think that is what was wrong here before. There was to much infernal meddling from too many of the upper management team. The signing of Timo Perez, if its any indication of what the 'plan' is, has me far more concerned than anything to do with Kullman. Sure its a low risk gambit, but show me that there is a reason for it.

Sea Ray
02-10-2006, 09:52 AM
So he was a tool to a scout, so what? What does that have to do with his acumen as a numbers man or a baseball mind? You seem to want to make his interpersonal behaviors bleed into his ability to perform a baseball job. YOU don't like the guy, so you want to see everything about him as bad. You call the guy "Manson" in another thread on the other baseball board. Like I said earlier, your ethos isn't your strong suit.

You just don't get it. His behavior probably cost the Reds a chance to make a trade. You think the Braves will ever do business with Kullman again? You don't think this story gets around? If he's a good stats guy that's fine. Put him in a corner with a high powered computer but don't let him have any contact with people and definitely never let him sniff the GFM's job.

Chip R
02-10-2006, 09:54 AM
I'm sorry to see Kullman go I didn't think things looked good when he wasn't at the presser despite the "family commitments" line. However, Wayne deserves the chance to bring in his own people. I wouldn't lament the sacking of a sabermetric guy too much. I would think that in the past several years, everybody has picked up some of that particular philosophy. As the Moneyball philosophy has shown, there's more than one way to skin a cat. It's not the be all and end all in ways to build a baseball team. Of course the funny thing is, even orgamizations who pooh-pooh Moneyball use it to an extent. Wayne said there are a lot of good approaches to building a team but he is going to use the Twins as a model because he's most familiar with it and he's seen it work. It may not be Moneyball enough for some but if it helps the Reds win, I couldn't care less.

As for Timo Perez, it's not like he's competing for a spot in the OF with anyone so I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

I'm just sad that we won't get to see Milton as closer now. Unless, of course, the Reds re-re-draft Milton Loo. ;)

princeton
02-10-2006, 10:00 AM
That Kullman was fired doesn't really matter much in the big picture.


Kullman was a dead easy decision-- in an age of genomics, there are tremendous stats guys around, and you don't even have to keep 'em on staff-- just use one or two as consultants.

Allen, Reynolds, and the developers have to be next.

Minnesota has been the best team at drafting tools and getting 'em to majors-- but it's a little operation without many spots for advancement. I hope to steal much talent from there. Here's hoping that Ryan didn't head off that possibility.

Twins have the best pitching coach in the game. I wonder if he ever wanted to manage?

ochre
02-10-2006, 10:10 AM
As for Timo Perez, it's not like he's competing for a spot in the OF with anyone so I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

I'm just sad that we won't get to see Milton as closer now. Unless, of course, the Reds re-re-draft Milton Loo. ;)
But why add a guy that has virtually no productive value? It's not like he's a stellar glove man or something. Is he toolsy?

I'm looking for them to take Loo in the second round this year... :)

Kc61
02-10-2006, 10:28 AM
But why add a guy that has virtually no productive value? It's not like he's a stellar glove man or something. Is he toolsy?

I'm looking for them to take Loo in the second round this year... :)

A few years ago, when Timo was in centerfield for the Mets, he deprived the Reds of a key hit with a "great" catch; unfortunately, it was really no catch because he trapped it off the center field wall. The umps gave the Mets the out. At the time, I wondered why our outfielders never did stuff like that.

Sounds like he will compete with Cruz and Denorfia for backup outfield spots.

redsfan30
02-10-2006, 10:31 AM
A few years ago, when Timo was in centerfield for the Mets, he deprived the Reds of a key hit with a "great" catch; unfortunately, it was really no catch because he trapped it off the center field wall. The umps gave the Mets the out. At the time, I wondered why our outfielders never did stuff like that.

Sounds like he will compete with Cruz and Denorfia for backup outfield spots.
Bases loaded at Cinergy Field in 2002 with Kearns at the plate?

Perez traps it against the wall and was able to double up the runner at second who had already crossed the plate?

Umpires after the game admitted they got the call wrong?

Is that the game of which you speak?

buckeyenut
02-10-2006, 10:33 AM
I'll just add that I gave TC some crap when he first started posting again about his insider status, but he handled it very well and gave me reason to believe he was credible. Keep hangin' around, TC, I seek out your posts to see if you have any scoop.
Having actually worked with TC, I can tell you for a fact that he is full of crap. ;) But he does have legitimate inside connections to the game at the minor league and major league level. He is living what many of the folks on this board only dream about.

He isn't always right, he is many times opinionated and he sometimes has polarizing views. But he is a really good guy just trying to have fun and talk baseball, just like the rest of us. And he doesn't deserve half the crap he takes on this board.

buckeyenut
02-10-2006, 10:37 AM
But why add a guy that has virtually no productive value? It's not like he's a stellar glove man or something. Is he toolsy?

I'm looking for them to take Loo in the second round this year... :)
How about because you have no OF depth in the organization whatsoever and so at some point, you have to have someone to play OF at AAA?

Denorfia and Stratton are options for the OF in AAA as is Jacob Cruz. But who else do we have there? You have an entire organization to populate, not just a major league team.

ochre
02-10-2006, 10:47 AM
How about because you have no OF depth in the organization whatsoever and so at some point, you have to have someone to play OF at AAA?

Denorfia and Stratton are options for the OF in AAA as is Jacob Cruz. But who else do we have there? You have an entire organization to populate, not just a major league team.
Which is fine of course, if that's why it was done. I'm jaded by the abuse we, as fans, have been put through for the last few years. I don't expect to have a winning team any time particularly soon, but I'd like to see a methodical approach towards building something up. AAA players don't concern me greatly, as I think the game has developed to the point that your real position prospects come essentially straight from AA for the most part. This is the guy that was involved in signing Castro to, ostensibly, start at SS for the Twins. If this is a trend, I'm not going to be a big fan of this methodology.

TRF
02-10-2006, 11:14 AM
I may have missed this, but is Maddox gone as well? If this is a true house cleaning, then if he hasn't been let go, he might be next.

And if he was the man behind the trade for Harang, then his replacement better be pretty damn good. That was one helluva trade.

Roy Tucker
02-10-2006, 11:20 AM
My take on Timo was that it was just an organizational depth thing, i.e. a warm body that can get called up from AAA and not embarass himself too badly.

KronoRed
02-10-2006, 11:38 AM
But why add a guy that has virtually no productive value? It's not like he's a stellar glove man or something. Is he toolsy?

He goes along with Aurilia and Womack

6 more and we can have a "veteran presence" lineup ;)

REDREAD
02-10-2006, 11:49 AM
Dan Evans and Bill James say hi.

There's no evidence that Kullman is a saber guy (or certainly not on the level of James, if he is ).


We've heard his role was to do contracts. We've had someone suggest that it was Leyland Maddox that did the Claussen and Harang deals.

I think Kullman has a following here because he's a computer guy, said he's open to ideas, and people just latched on to that, hoping we had a Billy Beane in house.

I've seen no evidence that the guy would be better than DanO. As I said before, where was Kullman when DanO was about to sign Milton.. As the saber advisor, why didn't he stop DanO from doing that? Because it seems as if Kullman's job was to do contracts, that's all.

RedsManRick
02-10-2006, 11:51 AM
The problems of a Timo Perez signing aren't immediate. Given the change in leadership, they may not materialize at all. But when a Jimmy Haynes goes from a vet at the back end of your rotation to your opening day starter or Rich Aurilia goes from a vet bench/util guy to the guy keeping your #1 positional prospect from playing, you do get a tad jaded.

If the organization is of the mind that we can trade Kearns/Pena because we have Timo Perez ready to step in, then we've got problems... If they are thinking, Perez would be a decent 5th OF when we trade Pena/Kearns and start Denorfia or Freel, then it ain't so bad.

REDREAD
02-10-2006, 11:55 AM
It was reported on 1360 Homer that the issue with John Allen is that Lindner gave him a multiyear deal worth in excess of $1mill before he left and now the new owners are stuck with honoring such a contract. Rather than eat it, they're just going to marginalize him and let him continue on. Have you heard Bob talk about this? Is Allen's contract an issue for them?

That's great news.. So hopefully, Allen is done having influence on the team and they are just waiting for his contract to expire to give him the boot.

I wonder if the Columbus Clippers have any openings for hot dog wrapping people LOL.. That's about Allen is good for.

I love it that Cast is cleaning house.

Either Kullman had influence in player moves (then he deserves a lot of the blame with DanO) or he didn't (and likely doesn't have the skills to).
Either way, glad to see Kullman get the boot. I hope more firings follow.

I can't believe all the sympathy Kullman is getting. He was part of the problem. Looks like Cast is blowing up the entire front office, just as we hoped. This is a happy time folks.

WVRedsFan
02-10-2006, 11:57 AM
There's no evidence that Kullman is a saber guy (or certainly not on the level of James, if he is ).


We've heard his role was to do contracts. We've had someone suggest that it was Leyland Maddox that did the Claussen and Harang deals.

I think Kullman has a following here because he's a computer guy, said he's open to ideas, and people just latched on to that, hoping we had a Billy Beane in house.

I've seen no evidence that the guy would be better than DanO. As I said before, where was Kullman when DanO was about to sign Milton.. As the saber advisor, why didn't he stop DanO from doing that? Because it seems as if Kullman's job was to do contracts, that's all.

I've been around a lot of guys like Kullman supposedly is. Talks a good game and wins over those who are not in his immediate circle. Then when he gets canned, everyone is outraged except those who really know him.

My take on this is that we hired Wayne to run the show. In order to run the show, he has to have people he has confidence in around him. He made a change. He'll make more changes soon. If we liked the old regime, we'll be upset. I'm not upset.

westofyou
02-10-2006, 11:58 AM
There's no evidence that Kullman is a saber guy (or certainly not on the level of James, if he is ).
Well these interviews don't paint him in the Grady Fusion mold either.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1699
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1701


As the saber advisor, why didn't he stop DanO from doing that?

What was he going to do? Hold a gun to his bosses head?

If you have listened to any of Kullmans sound bites the past two weeks it would be hard not to miss the obvious issues he had with some of the reds recent moves in the system.

But personally I'm not crying over his departure, but I think the jump to marginalize statistical study on this board can at times resemble a chum fest on the great barrier reef.

ochre
02-10-2006, 11:59 AM
The problems of a Timo Perez signing aren't immediate. Given the change in leadership, they may not materialize at all. But when a Jimmy Haynes goes from a vet at the back end of your rotation to your opening day starter or Rich Aurilia goes from a vet bench/util guy to the guy keeping your #1 positional prospect from playing, you do get a tad jaded.

If the organization is of the mind that we can trade Kearns/Pena because we have Timo Perez ready to step in, then we've got problems... If they are thinking, Perez would be a decent 5th OF when we trade Pena/Kearns and start Denorfia or Freel, then it ain't so bad.
That's my take on it too. Its a potential warning sign.

flyer85
02-10-2006, 12:07 PM
The use of statistics is simply a tool to be utilized. I used to work with a fellow that loved to point out "a fool with a tool is still a fool"(really does sound like something Red Green would say).

There are a lot of guys out there that can do the SABR stuff. There are a lot less people with the baseball, organizational and management skills necessary to be a major league GM. I would rather have the GM with the latter skills who will hire some one with the SABR skills and then take their analysis into account when making decisions.

I don't think Billy Beane fully understands Sabermetrics but he does know how to utilize the information to his advantage. Part of the problem now is that since almost every team is doing some level of statistical analysis it is a lot harder to leverage the information to gain an advantage on the competition.

RFS62
02-10-2006, 12:07 PM
But personally I'm not crying over his departure, but I think the jump to marginalize statistical study on this board can at times resemble a chum fest on the great barrier reef.



mmmmmm.... chum

M2
02-10-2006, 12:20 PM
Kullman was a dead easy decision-- in an age of genomics, there are tremendous stats guys around, and you don't even have to keep 'em on staff-- just use one or two as consultants.

Allen, Reynolds, and the developers have to be next.

Minnesota has been the best team at drafting tools and getting 'em to majors-- but it's a little operation without many spots for advancement. I hope to steal much talent from there. Here's hoping that Ryan didn't head off that possibility.

Twins have the best pitching coach in the game. I wonder if he ever wanted to manage?

Agreed for the most part, though I think there's a difference between people who can get you numbers and those that can employ them in meaningful ways. IMO, the key is to find the latter and put them on your staff.

It sounds like Allen's on the other side of the baseball/business firewall these days, so Krivsky might not be able to touch him. He might also owe Allen for getting him the second shot at this job. But the Reds have been coup central for too long (since Howsam really) and throats need to be slit to avoid that sort of nonsense in the future.

I like what Kullman did as interim co-GM in 2003, but he and Taylor and Wood and Naehring and Reynolds and Barton and probably Almaraz form the core of the extermination list. Krivsky needs to put together his own, hopefully-cohesive front office.

REDREAD
02-10-2006, 12:23 PM
But personally I'm not crying over his departure, but I think the jump to marginalize statistical study on this board can at times resemble a chum fest on the great barrier reef.

Look at it this way. Kullman has supposedly been a "saber" guy with some influence in this organization for 11 years. Either nobody listened to him, or his ideas were bad. Either way, he's dead weight and it's time to move on.

It's not enough to know that an idea (like signing Milton) is bad. One has to convince the Boss it is wrong for the good of the company. It's like the claim that Allen wanted Krivisky all along (which I doubt). Allen may have thought that, but since he didn't assert that idea to Lindner, what difference does it make?

Knowing the right answer is no good if you don't get it communicated and executed. If Kullman was so great, how come the organization is in total tatters.. Let's get rid of all the old Lindner regime and start over. I know you love Kullman, but it's highly likely there's a better stats guy out there.

And I do realize you're not exactly crying over this.. I didn't mean to imply that.
But this is a happy day, IMO.

Kc61
02-10-2006, 12:24 PM
Bases loaded at Cinergy Field in 2002 with Kearns at the plate?

Perez traps it against the wall and was able to double up the runner at second who had already crossed the plate?

Umpires after the game admitted they got the call wrong?

Is that the game of which you speak?

Yes, although your memory is much sharper than mine. Thanks for reminding me of the detail.

ochre
02-10-2006, 12:33 PM
Some other saber guys that should be considered:
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~merrie/Star%20Wars/light%20saber%201.jpg
http://mouthygodzilla.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/me_saber.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/freeling/StarDykes.jpg
http://hometown.aol.com/usfasl/images/sikes%20v%20smith.gif

flyer85
02-10-2006, 12:38 PM
or

http://loseke.net/pics/jb_samurai.jpg

Samurai Sabermetrician

ochre
02-10-2006, 12:41 PM
You win!

:)

Team Clark
02-10-2006, 12:46 PM
Team Clark

I have been reading and posting on this site for awhile. I have always felt you had the inside on what was going on and I always looked forward to what you had to say. You never got on here and bragged, you gave us inside info we probably should not have know about.

I appreciate that. I have been a Reds fan since I was 3 and that makes a very long 33 years. I used to listen to the Reds on a little trans radio. I can still remember the rain delays in San Fran and Marty talking about how great of an outfielder George Foster was.

You have been right on during trade deadlines and in fact gave us details from the press box that we would not have even known had been discussed let alone be interested.

You have never gave false info. Things do change and even when you have said something was going down, I believe it was at the time of your posting, but changed, because that is baseball and not everyone is entitled to every detail. When this happened, you aplologized and we went on.

I am sorry to know you have moved on to Tampa?, but happy that you are living a dream that most of us could only dream about.

I spent 15 years in the radio media in a small market station in Athens, Ohio. I loved every minute of being able to be on the field with a press pass when I had the opportunity to attend a game. The Reds went out of there way to assist me knowing I was not there every game to cover, but just a visitor of an affilliate station who carries Reds games.

I can not explain the feeling of being on the field and just watching what happens. Maybe some of us in here are very jealous of what you have to on a daily basis.

I hope you can continue to fill us in on what you may come across to keep the true Reds fans updated. You are right about not being right 100% of the time, but I would say 100% of the time you only give us info that you have heard to be true information. Again baseball is a funny game and things change by the second.

I again want to say thank you for what you do on here. I love to have the opportunity to get info fast about the Reds and I visit this site daily, not always posting, but when I do post, I try to give it my all.

WOW. Greatly appreciated. Alex that really means a lot coming from you. There is nothing like standing on the field before a game. Smelling the fresh cut grass, hearing the laughter from guys cutting up and realizing you are on sacred ground. I cried the first time I stepped onto Wrigley Field. Thanks for your support.

Chip R
02-10-2006, 12:48 PM
I cried the first time I stepped onto Wrigley Field.

Wuss. ;)

Team Clark
02-10-2006, 12:51 PM
He's TCII ........ The original TC has breasts! :laugh: ;)

Was reading through some of this and saw that Team Clark was getting pummeled. He can hold his own but I wanted to say that I appreciate his and his Dad's contributions. Hang in there, II. :)

I certainly do not have Breasts but if you have some time...

Seriously though, I have been inundated with PM's and messages. I'm almost speechless. I love posting here and really do enjoy the disagreements/arguments. I do not care for personal attacks but hey that's life. Team Casey, Team Boone and her crew have always supported me. We've come to each other's defense a few times. It means a lot. This thread is not a me vs. them situation. Just a difference of opinion.

Team Clark
02-10-2006, 12:53 PM
Ain't that the truth. But a guy's gotta work ;)

You know, TC, I appreciate the fact you stick around here. You seem to have to deal with crap like this once a month. I for one like to read the personal side of things since we get the analytical side here since that is all we can do since none of us know these people.

So, are you still here in CIN and just travelling to Tampa a lot? Or do you have to move down there when the season starts?

I'm back and forth. Will be in Cincy this wknd and back to Fla for awhile. It's been a whirlwind.

Falls City Beer
02-10-2006, 01:07 PM
Kullman's loss may mean nothing to the team. The team may, as virtually every one of you believe (i.e. convincing yourself to believe), turn into a juggernaut under Wayne "Timo & Castro & Mays" Krivsky, I don't know. But this team isn't going to win anything without analytical people--people who think like guys like M2, Steel, woy, Caveat, etc., and not the masses who thought Eric Milton was a good idea. The smart people don't have to be named Kullman, but they better be smart.

traderumor
02-10-2006, 01:10 PM
Kullman's loss may mean nothing to the team. The team may, as virtually every one of you believe (i.e. convincing yourself to believe), turn into a juggernaut under Wayne "Timo & Castro & Mays" Krivsky, I don't know. But this team isn't going to win anything without analytical people--people who think like guys like M2, Steel, woy, Caveat, etc., and not the masses who thought Eric Milton was a good idea. The smart people don't have to be named Kullman, but they better be smart.So that's one vote "no to Krivsky" for the gentleman from Philly :evil:

Falls City Beer
02-10-2006, 01:13 PM
So that's one vote "no to Krivsky" for the gentleman from Philly :evil:

Yeah. His track record upon deeper inspection is pretty bloody dull. He's Bowden. Values soft-tossing average Joes, and athletes. Pays but little lip service to getting on base.

But now I guess we'll get to answer the age-old question: what could Bowden do with a big payroll?

GIK
02-10-2006, 01:16 PM
TC, I just received an email from Brad (who was alerted to this thread by a friend) stating your account of the Bobby Wine encounter is false.

To quote, from BK:

The story about Bobby Wine has absolutely not one shred of truth. I have the utmost respect for Bobby Wine and all he has done in the game and would never ever under any circumstances treat any scout that way, let alone one of such repute as Bobby Wine. Also, it is a fact that credentials issued to scouts do not permit them on the field. Please check this out and you can verify this guy is completely untruthful.

I appreciate the info you have shared with the site in the past, but unless you can absolutely verify your account, I'm not sure we can or should accept it at face value.

westofyou
02-10-2006, 01:38 PM
I know you love Kullman, but it's highly likely there's a better stats guy out there.But that's where you are wrong, I never said I loved Kullman nor did I endorse him as the GM.

flyer85
02-10-2006, 01:52 PM
I appreciate the info you have shared with the site in the past, but unless you can absolutely verify your account, I'm not sure we can or should accept it at face value.I believe a line has been drawn in the sand. I am going to get my popcorn and soda and pull up a chair.

:duel:

osuceltic
02-10-2006, 02:00 PM
Kullman's loss may mean nothing to the team. The team may, as virtually every one of you believe (i.e. convincing yourself to believe), turn into a juggernaut under Wayne "Timo & Castro & Mays" Krivsky, I don't know. But this team isn't going to win anything without analytical people--people who think like guys like M2, Steel, woy, Caveat, etc., and not the masses who thought Eric Milton was a good idea. The smart people don't have to be named Kullman, but they better be smart.

It's not about statistical analysis vs. scouting. It's about finding good players and building a winning team. You can do it either way or, most effectively, with a combination of two approaches. Sometimes it's the same approach with different nomenclature. A stats guy may cite on-base percentage, a scouting report may say a guy has a great eye. A stats guy may cite a great slugging percentage, a scouting report may say a guy "centers the ball well." Both are saying the player hits the ball hard, in their own ways.

I hate the "he's not a stats guy so I don't want him" argument. And I hate the "stats are for losers" argument. It's a blend.

KittyDuran
02-10-2006, 02:35 PM
I appreciate the info you have shared with the site in the past, but unless you can absolutely verify your account, I'm not sure we can or should accept it at face value.I think someone needs to contact Bobby Wine...:)

traderumor
02-10-2006, 02:40 PM
I think someone needs to contact Bobby Wine...:)
Ooh, this is getting good.

westofyou
02-10-2006, 02:42 PM
I think someone needs to contact Bobby Wine...:)

We'll ask no Wine before its time

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t037/T037828A.jsm

M2
02-10-2006, 02:53 PM
We'll ask no Wine before its time

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t037/T037828A.jsm

In the meantime, there's always this beauty, made from the sparkling waters of the Rhine:

http://www.gifttodrink.co.uk/images/blacktowerb.jpg

savafan
02-10-2006, 03:02 PM
We'll never get those questions answered now.

The dream may not be dead in the water. There's a chance that someone else in the Reds organization may pick this up now that Brad's no longer there. Although, talking to Redszone may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. ;)

westofyou
02-10-2006, 03:05 PM
The dream may not be dead in the water. There's a chance that someone else in the Reds organization may pick this up now that Brad's no longer there. Although, talking to Redszone may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. ;)
And as I noted in that thread, it was a jump of the gun if there ever was one.

rdiersin
02-10-2006, 03:11 PM
And as I noted in that thread, it was a jump of the gun if there ever was one.

I don't know about that. I thought alot of the questions were more along the lines of if your were the GM what talents would you bring, what is your philosophy, etc. They were basically interview questions, which is what he was doing. I still would enjoy hearing the answers. But that's just MO.

GIK
02-10-2006, 03:11 PM
I'm not sure what the exact status of the questions I sent in is. Brad said he intended to pass them along before he was directed to this thread. We'll see. I really do appreciate those that did sumbit questions, whether they are answered or not.

traderumor
02-10-2006, 03:11 PM
And as I noted in that thread, it was a jump of the gun if there ever was one.After listening to the softballs tossed Krivsky's way in the mlb.com interview ( I expected nothing more), I cannot think of a better connection with an avid fan base that he is banking on to help make things work than doing an occasional Q&A and answer some tough questions every now and then--the type that folks around here ask. He may not give us answers we like, but it would be a great way to earn much respect from a group of folks you want the support of.

Chip R
02-10-2006, 03:15 PM
And as I noted in that thread, it was a jump of the gun if there ever was one.

I don't know about that. I don't think anyone thought him being named permanent GM was a slam dunk but even if he didn't get the job I don't think anyone thought he'd be fired this soon.

westofyou
02-10-2006, 03:15 PM
They were basically interview questions, which is what he was doing.And if he didn't get the job I wouldn't expect to see the answers, I know if I was him I'd leave the scene of the crime as is.

I don't think the questions were a bad idea, I think the posing them to Brad whilst he was *not* the FT GM was a process that had a some possible roadblocks.

rdiersin
02-10-2006, 03:21 PM
And if he didn't get the job I wouldn't expect to see the answers, I know if I was him I'd leave the scene of the crime as is.

I don't think the questions were a bad idea, I think the posing them to Brad whilst he was *not* the FT GM was a process that had a some possible roadblocks.

Posing them to Brad was the only possible way, really. He was available and interested, nobody else was as far as we know. Nobody else may be interested now.

Also, I don't think anyone expects to get the answers now, at least I hope not. But I know I would enjoy hearing the answers if he wants to do so.(some of the questions would have to be rephrased to be more general, I guess) Regardless, I wish him luck. Long live the 4 man rotation :)

Sea Ray
02-10-2006, 03:26 PM
TC, I just received an email from Brad (who was alerted to this thread by a friend) stating your account of the Bobby Wine encounter is false.


I appreciate the info you have shared with the site in the past, but unless you can absolutely verify your account, I'm not sure we can or should accept it at face value.


It does not surprise me that BK would deny such a report. He can't admit to such a thing while he's shopping for jobs. I just don't see why TC would make up such a story. Since we weren't there, we'll never know for sure but I know who's version I believe.

RedsManRick
02-10-2006, 03:34 PM
It's not about statistical analysis vs. scouting. It's about finding good players and building a winning team. You can do it either way or, most effectively, with a combination of two approaches. Sometimes it's the same approach with different nomenclature. A stats guy may cite on-base percentage, a scouting report may say a guy has a great eye. A stats guy may cite a great slugging percentage, a scouting report may say a guy "centers the ball well." Both are saying the player hits the ball hard, in their own ways.

I hate the "he's not a stats guy so I don't want him" argument. And I hate the "stats are for losers" argument. It's a blend.

Good point, but there are certainly flaws in both approaches taken individually. The 'scout' might say he has a great eye, but his definition of great is different from the GMs or even other scouts. Or possibly the scout hasn't had enough exposure to the player have a truly accurate qualitative measurement of his skill set. Even across 50 at bats, a guy with average patience could look like Adam Dunn. He sees a guy who he thinks has the eye he needs to succeed, but even at his own level, that only translasted in to a pedestrian 40 walks in 500 at bats.

On the other hand, a guy could have a monster year stastically, but that could be an unfair representation of his skills. Perhaps he hit .280/.380/.620, but the pitchers in AA failed to take advantage of the massive whole in his swing down and in or the fact that he can't sit back on offspeed stuff with 2 strikes. The scout points this out the stats-only GM and when the guy gets promoted and can't hit .200, is vindicated.

Unfortunately, I think you'll come to realize that most of the "stat-heads" understand the need for the balance and do have great respect for the necessity of qualititative evalutation. Unfortunately, it seems that many scout oriented people only give stats lip-service respect and truly fail to understand it's intended application and value. Call me biased, but I have yet to meet a stats guy who took it to far and didn't understandstats' limitations. I can't say the same about those in the scouting camp.

savafan
02-10-2006, 03:36 PM
Posing them to Brad was the only possible way, really. He was available and interested, nobody else was as far as we know. Nobody else may be interested now.

Also, I don't think anyone expects to get the answers now, at least I hope not. But I know I would enjoy hearing the answers if he wants to do so.(some of the questions would have to be rephrased to be more general, I guess) Regardless, I wish him luck. Long live the 4 man rotation :)

I believe there is still interest. In fact, I'm awaiting word from 4 members of the Reds front office, and there may be others who will contact GIK. This could be huge, and we may have to do several sets of questions for various different people. That said, I have to thank Brad Kullman for agreeing to do it first and getting the ball rolling on what could be.

flyer85
02-10-2006, 03:42 PM
It does not surprise me that BK would deny such a report. He can't admit to such a thing while he's shopping for jobs. I just don't see why TC would make up such a story. Since we weren't there, we'll never know for sure but I know who's version I believe.there's a reason I said lets move on a while back. It simply ends up being a "he said/she said" scenario where I have no idea what the real story is and really has little to do with the subject at hand(Kullman being fired).

Chip R
02-10-2006, 03:50 PM
there's a reason I said lets move on a while back.

I think that's a good idea.

CincyRedsFan30
02-10-2006, 03:54 PM
One thing is for sure: things have certainly been much more exciting during the limited post-DanO Era than they were during his entire time as GM. :)

RFS62
02-10-2006, 03:57 PM
One thing is for sure: things have certainly been much more exciting during the limited post-DanO Era than they were during his entire time as GM. :)



No kidding.

flyer85
02-10-2006, 04:04 PM
One thing is for sure: things have certainly been much more exciting during the limited post-DanO Era than they were during his entire time as GM. :)motion detectors are actually being set off in the front offices.

traderumor
02-10-2006, 04:31 PM
One thing is for sure: things have certainly been much more exciting during the limited post-DanO Era than they were during his entire time as GM. :)That's what happens when the two most powerful folks in the organization come in and see the garbage piled up and actually start filling up some trash bags. Castellini and Krivsky seem ready, willing and able to finally admit "man, this org is dysfunctional."

Chip R
02-10-2006, 04:35 PM
Castellini and Krivsky seem ready, willing and able to finally admit "man, this org is dysfunctional."

You can't spell "dysfunctional" without f-u-n. :)

traderumor
02-10-2006, 04:40 PM
You can't spell "dysfunctional" without f-u-n. :)Fun is reading these football's-over-and-spring-training-hasn't-started threads. The Cast and Kullman smilies thread is worth a few giggles.

TeamBoone
02-10-2006, 05:21 PM
It does not surprise me that BK would deny such a report. He can't admit to such a thing while he's shopping for jobs. I just don't see why TC would make up such a story. Since we weren't there, we'll never know for sure but I know who's version I believe.

Thank you. That's the way I look at it too.

Some of us know TC. There's no way in you-know-what that he'd put something like that in writing if it wasn't true.

If I were in BK's shoes, I'd deny it too.

MikeS21
02-10-2006, 05:27 PM
Thank you. That's the way I look at it too.

Some of us know TC. There's no way in you-know-what that he'd he put something like that in writing if it wasn't true.

If I were in BK's shoes, I'd deny it too.
I agree. I have NEVER read anything TC has made up.

Kullman's denial doesn't even make sense. He first claims there is no shred of truth to the story, then he feels he must defend why he asked Wine to leave the field because scouts aren't allowed on the field?

Something doesn't add up.

KronoRed
02-10-2006, 05:41 PM
Something doesn't add up.
Yeah none of us were there to know one way or the other ;)

Team Clark
02-10-2006, 08:18 PM
I'm not going to get into a war of words. I was there. Did you expect Brad to say "Oh yes, I absolutely acted out against Bobby Wine and embarassed the Reds organization". C'Mon. Move on.

REDREAD
02-10-2006, 08:47 PM
But that's where you are wrong, I never said I loved Kullman nor did I endorse him as the GM.

ok.. love was a strong word, but you liked the guy, I thought.

Maybe I was thinking of someone else.

REDREAD
02-10-2006, 08:53 PM
Guys.. you backed Team Clark into a corner demanding an example of when Kullman acted like a jerk, attacking Team Clark's crediblity. So, he accomodated you guys. I don't think it was too cool to show that to Kullman.

Too be honest, if I was Team Clark, there's no way I'd ever share any more inside information again.

Team Clark
02-10-2006, 08:59 PM
I sent Bobby Wine an e-mail to apologize for telling this story. He probably would want that story under wraps. Bad judgement on my part. I know better.

Falls City Beer
02-10-2006, 09:06 PM
Guys.. you backed Team Clark into a corner demanding an example of when Kullman acted like a jerk, attacking Team Clark's crediblity. So, he accomodated you guys. I don't think it was too cool to show that to Kullman.

Too be honest, if I was Team Clark, there's no way I'd ever share any more inside information again.

You know what? I was going to keep my trap shut on this thread until it dried up and blew away because my intention wasn't to discredit TC (which is what you guys seem to think I was doing), but just to challenge his bull in the china shop insults thrown at a guy who'd just lost his job. Let's talk about class, shall we? I mean, really?

To put it in simple parlance--TC fired the first shot. All Cooper and I were asking for was to go a bit better than "jerk" or "punk." Maybe if you don't "want to be backed into a corner" you shouldn't go telling tales. If you find what TC posts illuminating, great, listen to him, not me. But this board is for discussion, as I understand it. And I really don't think Cooper or I were out of line for asking for some depth to a pretty relentless stream of insults thrown at a guy who's out of work.

Cooper
02-10-2006, 09:33 PM
Uhmm...fcb didn't show kullman the posts....and the intensity re: kullman was there for all to view long before fcb and i came long.

Team Clark
02-10-2006, 09:33 PM
It goes on and on and on.... This thread, unfortunately, needs to be closed.

Team Clark
02-10-2006, 09:35 PM
I have nothing against Coop or Falls City. Although we certainly do not agree on this issue the fact remains that Kullman is gone. No more reason to beat a dead horse.

GIK
02-10-2006, 09:35 PM
I doubt anyone here did. In Brad's email he said it was a friend of his who let him know about the thread. I agree with the above post...let's move on.

savafan
02-10-2006, 09:36 PM
In other news, Natalee Holloway is still missing. ;)

RFS62
02-10-2006, 09:39 PM
In other news, Natalee Holloway is still missing. ;)



So, he's involved in that too?

Geez!!!

MWM
02-10-2006, 09:42 PM
Honestly, had I been just named GM of a team and one of the other serious candidates, and the one had the job temporarily, still worked for the team, I'd get rid of the guy. Not because he did a bad job, but simply to avoid any possibility of looking over the shoulder. And Brad's function is easily replacable. It just seems like an unnecessarily awkward position. Both guys are probably better off in the long run for having it end this soon.

RFS62
02-10-2006, 09:44 PM
Honestly, had I been just named GM of a team and one of the other serious candidates, and the one had the job temporarily, still worked for the team, I'd get rid of the guy. Not because he did a bad job, but simply to avoid any possibility of looking over the shoulder. And Brad's function is easily replacable. It just seems like an unnecessarily awkward position. Both guys are probably better off in the long run for having it end this soon.



I completely agree with this. And it has nothing to do with Kullman's past.

Blow up the front office, Wayne. Make it yours.

Team Clark
02-10-2006, 09:45 PM
Honestly, had I been just named GM of a team and one of the other serious candidates, and the one had the job temporarily, still worked for the team, I'd get rid of the guy. Not because he did a bad job, but simply to avoid any possibility of looking over the shoulder. And Brad's function is easily replacable. It just seems like an unnecessarily awkward position. Both guys are probably better off in the long run for having it end this soon.


Beattie did the same thing to Mike Berger in Montreal. It happens all over America in every walk of life.

Cooper
02-10-2006, 09:51 PM
Kullman needs to go --Krivisky needs to pick his own team...heck, even Kullman said as much.

I'm hoping he's not a scouts only kind of gm --that he applies some sabermetric principles because they work --finding market inequalities and making moves based on those inequalities. it's my opinion, you can'tfind those in any organized way unless you apply saber principles.

Bill
02-11-2006, 02:26 AM
I think Wayne just didn't like BK's braintype.

Sorry, couldn't resist. In any event, BK was old blood going back to Bowden and OB of course. Not exactly the best from which to learn.

RedsBaron
02-11-2006, 08:06 AM
I had previously posted that I hoped Kullman stayed, based upon my assumption regarding his role in acquiring Harang and Claussen. Team Clark indicates Kullman's role has been exaggerated. Whether exaggerated or not, I don't believe it matters. As others have noted, Krivisky is now the GM and he should be given the opportunity to assemble his own group of advisers.
I never really liked it in prior years when the Reds would hire a new manager but then tell the manager he had to retain certain coaches. I believe that when a new person is hired, he should be allowed to retain who he wants and fire who he doesn't want. If he then fails in a few years, fire him and hire a new guy.
Krivisky is the GM. Let him hire his team. Narron is the manager at present. Let him select his coaches. When Narron is canned, let his replacement select his coaching staff. Should Krivisky fail, let his replacement clean house in the front office.

GAC
02-11-2006, 08:32 AM
Really? WOW. When I am guessing I say I am guessing. When I know something is for sure I say it for sure. I have had people blast me on here for commenting on "possible" trades. But that's about as far as being "off" on anything I have been on this site.

I told everyone about Kearns and Dunn falling out of favor with the organization due to their work ethic. I got lambasted for it. A week later the Reds FO is talking about it in the paper. Another 'Zoner sits down with Narron and confirms it. Ohh But TC doesn't know what he's talking about.

I quit posting for a long time because I thought I was putting too much out there. I decided to come back because I realized there were TOO MANY people posting who were just plain guessing and making things up. I knew different and wanted to intervene.

I'm not Gospel. I'll never be 100% right. If I talked about every possible trade, hiring, firing, move, transaction or whatever I'd be Peter Gammons. I'd only be "right" about 2% of the time. Baseball is fluent and deals evaporate as quickly as they are conceived. Do you know how many guys I work with that have been told they had a job in this game only to get the call "it's not in our budget"? We all laugh about it now. Nothing is for sure in this game. I'll just tell you what I know, hear, think... Like any other poster.

If you don't like what I write, don't read it. I will not be offended in the least. Doesn't mean I will not read your posts. WOY, SteelSD, M2 and others disagree with me all the time. They call me into question all the time. AND THEY should!! Disagreement is as much a part of Baseball as foul lines and wooden bats.

I, myself, always enjoy your input on here. Always have. I stil remember the time you walked over into he booth and got Nuxie to autograph a score card for me. That made my day.

But you're no Hal McCoy. ;)

And I wish I had the last 30 minutes of my life back from reading this thread.

Boss-Hog
02-11-2006, 10:08 AM
I appreciate the info you have shared with the site in the past, but unless you can absolutely verify your account, I'm not sure we can or should accept it at face value.
After reading this entire thread, I'm not going to rehash the argument. However, I do agree with what GIK said - particularly when it comes to people in the front office. Keeping this information to yourself (or only sharing it privately) would be in the best interest of the site.

KittyDuran
02-11-2006, 10:38 AM
After reading this entire thread, I'm not going to rehash the argument. However, I do agree with what GIK said - particularly when it comes to people in the front office. Keeping this information to yourself (or only sharing it privately) would be in the best interest of the site.Especially if RedsZone is trying to get someone from the Reds organization to contribute to the site...:)

RFS62
02-11-2006, 10:49 AM
Especially if RedsZone is trying to get someone from the Reds organization to contribute to the site...:)



Yep, I knew this was coming.

Back before Christmas, I started a thread with the idea of getting the new administration involved here. We kicked a lot of ideas around, and it finally came to me that the amount of criticism we come up with here for every single aspect of the organization could be a problem.

So, what's the solution? Do we censor ourselves in order to not offend the administration? And if so, how much? To what degree?

Wouldn't that run the risk of changing the fabric of RedsZone, of what it's evolved into since it started?

One of the first realizations I came to here back when we started was the fact that it might not be a good thing for a player or his family to read here. Even though at first blush, I thought how great it would be to get their interaction.

Back then, Jack McKeon was in the center of the bulls eye. He took savage attacks here, and his family read this site. His grandson was a member. His son also. His wife read regularily. And he took a ton of criticism every single day.

Some of the stuff written was so personal, so mean spirited, it drove me crazy knowing that they were reading it.

Should we have censored ourselves then?

And are we going to now just to make nice with the front office in the hopes that they'll interact with us?

It's a tough question, and I'm not saying I know the answer. But let's call it what it is.

Are we going to lose some of the flavor that makes this place what it is?

Boss-Hog
02-11-2006, 10:53 AM
Yep, I knew this was coming.

Back before Christmas, I started a thread with the idea of getting the new administration involved here. We kicked a lot of ideas around, and it finally came to me that the amount of criticism we come up with here for every single aspect of the organization could be a problem.

So, what's the solution? Do we censor ourselves in order to not offend the administration? And if so, how much? To what degree?

Wouldn't that run the risk of changing the fabric of RedsZone, of what it's evolved into since it started?

One of the first realizations I came to here back when we started was the fact that it might not be a good thing for a player or his family to read here. Even though at first blush, I thought how great it would be to get their interaction.

Back then, Jack McKeon was in the center of the bulls eye. He took savage attacks here, and his family read this site. His grandson was a member. His son also. His wife read regularily. And he took a ton of criticism every single day.

Some of the stuff written was so personal, so mean spirited, it drove me crazy knowing that they were reading it.

Should we have censored ourselves then?

And are we going to now just to make nice with the front office in the hopes that they'll interact with us?

It's a tough question, and I'm not saying I know the answer. But let's call it what it is.

Are we going to lose some of the flavor that makes this place what it is?
All valid points, but that's not exactly what I meant by my comment. I'm not interested in changing the fabric of site or asking anyone to suddenly bite their tongue. I just feel it'd be best for Team Clark to keep his personal experiences with front office members to himself or anyone he'd like share them with privately.

RFS62
02-11-2006, 10:54 AM
All valid points, but that's not exactly what I meant with my comment. I'm not interested in changing the fabric of site. I just feel it'd be best for Team Clark to keep his personal experiences with front office members to himself or anyone he'd like share them with privately.


Yeah, I know. And I'm fine with that. It just got me thinking about the problems I was kicking around in my head when we first started talking about this.

RANDY IN INDY
02-11-2006, 10:58 AM
While it would be nice to hear someone's views from the front office here on Redszone, I would have to question someone in that position opening themselves up on a forum, such as this. There isn't going to be a great comfort level on a public forum for people in a front office position. They probably are not going to offer much more than the "vanilla" comments that we see in the press. There is only so much I would be willing to offer if I were in that position, and personally, I probably wouldn't want to open myself to that. I'm not sure that the Reds brass should be too comfortable with it either.

Team Clark's report about Kullman was after he was no longer a member of the Reds front office. While it painted Kullman in a negative light, it is exactly the type of inside information that folks on a forum such as this are looking for. Guys like Team Clark add a dimension to this site that not many folks can offer. I, again, appreciate the unique contributions that he makes and that not many on the board can offer. Just my two cents.

.

westofyou
02-11-2006, 11:00 AM
While it would be nice to hear someone's views from the front office here on Redszone, I would have to question someone in that position opening themselves up on a forum, such as this.

Blilly Beane does it, John Henry does it, it can be done.

KittyDuran
02-11-2006, 11:04 AM
Yeah, I know. And I'm fine with that. It just got me thinking about the problems I was kicking around in my head when we first started talking about this.That would be the "Reds oficial RedsZone Member" http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42479&highlight=oficial and this was my take on it:


I'm really torn about the issue of getting the Reds organization involved in RedsZone. It would be exciting to have players, FO personnel and media to talk to - but OTOH RedsZone's motto is "By Reds Fans, for Reds Fans" - this is where we as fans can come to talk about the Reds with other fans.

RANDY IN INDY
02-11-2006, 11:08 AM
Blilly Beane does it, John Henry does it, it can be done.


They probably are not going to offer much more than the "vanilla" comments that we see in the press.

I wouldn't expect that you are going to get the answers to hard questions that knowlegeable fans are going to ask.

westofyou
02-11-2006, 11:15 AM
I wouldn't expect that you are going to get the answers to hard questions that knowlegeable fans are going to ask.

Maybe, maybe not

Peruse this many interviews and that's alot of Vanilla.

Billy Beane Offseason 06 Interview Part I
Billy Beane Offseason 06 Interview Part II
Billy Beane Offseason 06 Interview Part III

Billy Beane Midseason 05 Interview Part I
Billy Beane Midseason 05 Interview Part II
Billy Beane Midseason 05 Interview Part III
Billy Beane Back in AN 1/25/05
Billy Beane Back in AN 1/23/05
Billy Beane Back in AN 1/18/05

At least you'd get stuff like this.


Blez: What about Mark Kotsay, whose name has really started to surface quite a bit in rumors? I have to tell you he's also become quite the fan favorite on Athletics Nation.

Beane: Well, he should, he's one of my favorites. He is a marvelous baseball player and I keep using the word marvelous, but he's a quote, unquote, baseball player. He should be a fan favorite. He's a GM favorite too. You know, our job here is to sort of recreate these heroes. The great thing about the fanbase here is that when we made the move, everyone said, "What the heck are you doing?" And two years later, people are now saying, "You can't move Kotsay." It's good because they get that attachment because that means that the performance is there. Now it's OK we traded for him. Two years ago, it was, "What are you doing?" And that's good that it's worked out that way. I feel the same way about Mark. One of the issues we have with Mark is that he has the ability to become a free agent at the end of the season and it's by contractual right. He's the type of player we're always looking for. But the hope is that you can keep a player like that around. The question is that you can always face the possibility that you can lose him for nothing and that weighs into the decision. But I agree with the Nation.

We've been very lucky to have the Hudsons, the Mulders, the Tejadas, these are great guys too. As much as the fans love them, they should love them because knowing them personally, they're gold. And Kotsay fits that perfectly. I get letters from people about the time he's spent with them. In spring training, I got this great letter from this family where Mark had really taken the time at a restaurant to stop by and say hello to them and said he would get the kid a bat. And then the next day, he saw the kid and recognized the kid and brought him down and gave him a bat. It's stuff like that that is just a part of Mark. He should be a lot of people's favorite guy. Because he plays the game right on the field and he's an absolute model human being off the field.

RFS62
02-11-2006, 11:28 AM
That would be the "Reds oficial RedsZone Member" http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42479&highlight=oficial and this was my take on it:



Actually, this is the one I was referring to:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41271

RANDY IN INDY
02-11-2006, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by westofyou:

At least you'd get stuff like this.


I'm sure there would be a few chocolate chips amongst all the vanilla.

KronoRed
02-11-2006, 11:31 AM
I think Wayne just didn't like BK's braintype.

Sorry, couldn't resist. In any event, BK was old blood going back to Bowden and OB of course. Not exactly the best from which to learn.
But Kullman is not the only one, half the FO needs to be thrown out if this is a "out with the old in with the new"

Again, if it's just Kullman getting the boot I'm gonna agree with said post about that this was only getting rid of someone who might be a threat.

TeamCasey
02-11-2006, 11:53 AM
If you find what TC posts illuminating, great, listen to him, not me. But this board is for discussion, as I understand it.

Why not just ignore him then?

KittyDuran
02-11-2006, 11:54 AM
Actually, this is the one I was referring to:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41271Oops, sorry...:redface:

RFS62
02-11-2006, 11:56 AM
Oops, sorry...:redface:

No problem. I guess we had several runs at this idea. I let that thread die over Christmas and was going to revive it, but the ball was picked up with the subsequent threads.

Falls City Beer
02-11-2006, 12:02 PM
Why not just ignore him then?

Yeah, that's an option. Here's another: why not ignore me?

If you're going to have a discussion board, you should allow people to discuss and challenge. Otherwise what's the point?

Why don't you make a separate room on this board for insiders and not allow me or Cooper in it? That's always an option.

Phil in BG
02-11-2006, 12:03 PM
I personally appreciate Team Clark's insight. When there is breaking news, I always make sure I read his posts. On Redszone, someone usually has information before it's official. I believe that time is the most fun..who has apparent inside information? Who knows something? Speculates?

Is it all true? I don't know. I take it for what it's worth....information from someone who has more than I do. You can choose to take it at face value or choose to ignore. Obviously Hal was wrong on the GM. Again, take it for what it's worth. I believe Hal had information from someone on the inside who was either premature or wrong. I'm glad he was wrong.

Matt700wlw is another I make sure I read. He has media information before it's official. Just my take.

MWM
02-11-2006, 12:05 PM
I thought we were moving on.

Falls City Beer
02-11-2006, 12:10 PM
I thought we were moving on.

I'd sure like to--but when I'm consistently told to bugger off (in a nice friendly way)for doing nothing more than saying "prove it"--I take umbrage. I think the point is a valid one that Kitty raises and needs to be discussed: do we keep this a "fan" site or a site to worship star connections? I think it can be both, but separate rooms are going to have to be made, rooms whose rules will have to be altered to fit the "no challenge" format--or pre-screened questions or whatever.

RedsBaron
02-11-2006, 12:17 PM
I have appreciated Team Clark's posts and "insider" info and I hope he continues to provide us with the same.

cReds1
02-11-2006, 12:23 PM
I'd sure like to--but when I'm consistently told to bugger off (in a nice friendly way)for doing nothing more than saying "prove it"--I take umbrage. I think the point is a valid one that Kitty raises and needs to be discussed: do we keep this a "fan" site or a site to worship star connections? I think it can be both, but separate rooms are going to have to be made, rooms whose rules will have to be altered to fit the "no challenge" format--or pre-screened questions or whatever.

That is why I do not post here very often. You can never criticize someone's opinion or said to be FACT unless you are in the so called group. I am sure I will be marked down now. :rolleyes:

Ga_Red
02-11-2006, 12:30 PM
BH, GIK,

imo, you've over reacted to the messenger, in fact suggested silencing him.

TC was asked for validation and gave it.
His character was vouched for by many.

Redszone needs more TCs, not less, imo..
l
The *ignore list* is there to take care of
personal dislikes.


Ga_Red

GIK
02-11-2006, 12:38 PM
Never once did I say for TC to stop posting, Ga. Please re-read my posts. I said that we should not accept his post as truth, unless it can be verified. No one knows exactly what happened that day but those individuals involved. Period.

Ga_Red
02-11-2006, 12:52 PM
BH said:

"...I just feel it'd be best for Team Clark to keep his personal experiences with front office members to himself or anyone he'd like share them with privately."

creek14
02-11-2006, 01:19 PM
If you're going to have a discussion board, you should allow people to discuss and challenge. Otherwise what's the point?

:clap:

On another note - are some of you totally discounting Brad's response? Sure seems that way. And all I can say about that is - wow.

Boss-Hog
02-11-2006, 01:41 PM
BH said:

"...I just feel it'd be best for Team Clark to keep his personal experiences with front office members to himself or anyone he'd like share them with privately."
I don't think it's fair for a person to log on here and criticize someone that doesn't even have a chance to defend him or her self, whether the claims are true or not (and I have no way of proving or disproving these assertions). It's one person's opinon and too many people take that as gospel. Posting trade rumors and other type of newsworthy information is welcomed and encouraged from those who've proven they have such info. (Big Donkey, BrooklynRedz and CincyRedsFan30 are a few examples) but I don't care for what I've seen in this thread and don't think it's good for the board, at all.

Let's get this topic back on track or I'm going to close the thread.