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Krusty
02-16-2006, 12:47 AM
If there was one trade you could wish Krivsky could make this spring training, what would that be?
I'll get it started. Actually, there are three trades:

1. Trade Junior to the White Sox for Jose Contreras and a prospect. Reds would bolster their pitching staff and gain salary relief after the 2006 season.

2. Trade Pena and Milton to the Dodgers for lst baseman Choi and pitcher Odalis Perez. Milton might be better in Dodger Stadium and Perez needs a change of scenery. Choi is the odd man out with Garciaparra at lst and Pena fills a void in LF for the Dodgers. Dunn would shift back to left field. (Okay, the trade isn't my idea but makes some sense).

3. Trade Ryan Wagner to the Devil Rays for OF Joey Gathright.

Lineup:
1. Gathright cf
2. Freel 2b
3. Lopez ss (I think he will be an excellent number 3 hitter)
4. Dunn lf
5. Kearns rf
6. Choi lb
7. LaRue/Valentin c
8. Encarncion 3b

Starting pitchers:
Contreras rhp
Perez lhp
Harang rhp
Claussen lhp
Wilson rhp or Beisle rhp

KronoRed
02-16-2006, 01:35 AM
Like all the trades but the JR one but I really don't like burying Dunn like that.

He's the 3 hitter.

Red Thunder
02-16-2006, 10:24 AM
Encarnacion at #8?

You know that he is not going to get anything good to hit at that spot with the pitcher right behind him? I'd rather put the catcher at #8 and Encarnacion at #6 or #7. I think batting right in front of the pitcher won't benefit Encarnacion's progress in 2006.

Heath
02-16-2006, 10:25 AM
i think the Wagner deal would be laughed at in Tampa Bay...in fact - I might just go on the Rays Board where I am a member and see how fast they laugh.

I think I can live with trade #2

realreds1
02-16-2006, 10:54 AM
I might just go on the Rays Board where I am a member and see how fast they laugh.


Or you could be respectful to the original poster and not post it on the Rays Board. It's an opinion. He can express it without grade-school-level recourse.

Doc. Scott
02-16-2006, 10:56 AM
Krusty, frankly, none of those three trades sound both realistic and make improvements. #3 is bad for the Reds, the Dodgers would never do #2 and #1 would be vetoed.

ochre
02-16-2006, 10:58 AM
Assuming a difference making pitcher would be unavailable without scuttling the offense, I'd target Granderson from Detroit as a Centerfielder for this team. Perhaps there would be a way to build a package around Pena to acquire him.

***Disclaimer -- if you participate in any virtual baseball leagues with Steel ignore what has previously been written.

RedsManRick
02-16-2006, 11:05 AM
Re: Gathright...

Baldelli, Crawford, Gomes, Gathright, Delmon Young. 5 guys, 4 spots if you DH one of them. Baldelli and Crawford have signed long term deals. Young is the best hitting prospect in the game. At LEAST one of Gomes/Gathright will be traded and everybody knows it. Best case scenario, Gathright is another Juan Pierre/Scott Podsednik. That's valuable certainly if he gets to that level, but a .656 OPS, even with a lot of speed, isn't that valuable.

M2
02-16-2006, 11:24 AM
Wily Mo to the Rockies for Jeff Francis - no one can pitch in Colorado, but Wily Mo would be an unreal power hitter for that franchise.

I love the Gathright idea too. Theoretically the Reds should be willing to move the entire starting OF if the deals are right. Then you fill in with Dunn back in LF, Denorfia plugging a hole and picking up a guy like Gathright on the cheap.

Heath
02-16-2006, 11:36 AM
Or you could be respectful to the original poster and not post it on the Rays Board. It's an opinion. He can express it without grade-school-level recourse.

Or you could take it as "egg on my face". I posted it on the Rays board (all 5 people who go there) and one guy actually thought it was a decent deal from the Reds perspective.

I think some deep breaths and exhaling needs to happen around here. Its getting really chippy around here. Must be spring :D

SteelSD
02-16-2006, 11:42 AM
Assuming a difference making pitcher would be unavailable without scuttling the offense, I'd target Granderson from Detroit as a Centerfielder for this team. Perhaps there would be a way to build a package around Pena to acquire him.

***Disclaimer -- if you participate in any virtual baseball leagues with Steel ignore what has previously been written.

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!:angry:

KronoRed
02-16-2006, 11:44 AM
i think the Wagner deal would be laughed at in Tampa Bay...in fact - I might just go on the Rays Board where I am a member and see how fast they laugh.

A D-ray fan?

Wow..say hi to the club :D

KronoRed
02-16-2006, 11:45 AM
How bout Pena for Gathright?

Because I don't think the Tigers will deal Granderson for anything we have

M2
02-16-2006, 11:49 AM
Heath, I'm fairly confident Tampa Bay will give Gathright away before too long. He's clearly the odd man out over there.

Johnny Footstool
02-16-2006, 12:03 PM
I'd like Krivsky to make it, but I doubt it would ever happen:

Pena to Royals for J.P. Howell and Jeremy Affeldt.

rdiersin
02-16-2006, 12:09 PM
Mine would be Weathers, Freel, prospect to the Dodgers for Izturis, Orenduff, Ruggiano. Mainly I think it is a good time to trade Freel (i.e. his value is probably as high as it might get) we get a good defensive SS, albeit an offensive hole. Freel fits the Dodgers because of their outfield situation, plus even if they get a power hitting outfielder like they may want, with J.D. Drew out there, a guy like Freel would be a great addition. Weathers helps their bullpen. Also I like Orenduff and so far Ruggiano has taken a Jason Bay path, plus he may be undervalued by the Dodgers. This year will probably be a little more telling. Tyller Pelland as the prospect? Not sure yet on that part what would work for both sides.

RedsFan75
02-16-2006, 12:14 PM
How about Womack and Aurillia to anybody for a bag of balls?

Seriously, love to see him flip Pena for a good solid #1 or #2 starter.

Doc. Scott
02-16-2006, 12:20 PM
I don't think Gathright will be Kenny Lofton. I think he'll be more like Brian Hunter (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/brian-hunter.shtml).

Doc. Scott
02-16-2006, 12:25 PM
I'd like Krivsky to make it, but I doubt it would ever happen:

Pena to Royals for J.P. Howell and Jeremy Affeldt.

That's fairly realistic, but do you think it would turn out well for the Reds?

You're banking on the change of scenery for Affeldt and the tutelage of the Reds' high-minors coaching staff and administration on Howell (who's been rushed something serious).

I'm not sure. Especially when you consider that by this point, trading Pena results in an offensive downgrade to whoever gets the majority of those at-bats- in other words, Hatteberg, (gag)Womack, McCracken(choke), Perez...

flyer85
02-16-2006, 12:36 PM
Assuming a difference making pitcher would be unavailable without scuttling the offense, I'd target Granderson from Detroit as a Centerfielder for this team. Perhaps there would be a way to build a package around Pena to acquire him.problem is that Detroit is already loaded with bad OF/DH types(Young, Shelton, etc). I can't see them having much of an interest in Pena.

KronoRed
02-16-2006, 12:41 PM
I don't think Gathright will be Kenny Lofton. I think he'll be more like Brian Hunter (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/brian-hunter.shtml).
If he can play D like Lofton he can hit like Hunter and bat 8th

M2
02-16-2006, 12:42 PM
I don't think Gathright will be Kenny Lofton. I think he'll be more like Brian Hunter (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/brian-hunter.shtml).

Hunter fancied himself a power hitter and he never much found 1B with laudable frequency in the minors (.342 OB). Gathright doesn't fancy himself a power hitter and his minor league OB is .390.

Thing is, he's an OF without any power who's going to be buried (rightly or wrongly) on the Devil Rays' bench. He'll do well to fetch a Joe Randa return. In fact, that might not be a bad offer for him.

registerthis
02-16-2006, 12:52 PM
Package Pena and Milton to the Dodgers for Perez, move Junior to a corner spot, and ship Aurilia and a prospect to Tampa for Gathright.

Johnny Footstool
02-16-2006, 12:55 PM
The problem is the D-Rays need pitching, same as the Reds. Other clubs are interested in Gathright and are dangling pitching prospects. The Reds can't match that.

Johnny Footstool
02-16-2006, 01:01 PM
That's fairly realistic, but do you think it would turn out well for the Reds?

You're banking on the change of scenery for Affeldt and the tutelage of the Reds' high-minors coaching staff and administration on Howell (who's been rushed something serious).

I'm not sure. Especially when you consider that by this point, trading Pena results in an offensive downgrade to whoever gets the majority of those at-bats- in other words, Hatteberg, (gag)Womack, McCracken(choke), Perez...

Affeldt and Howell are the kinds of pitchers the Reds need - lefties with good stuff and a streak of wildness. I think they can develop.

Pena is a low-walk, high-strikeout hitter whose main tool (power) the Reds already possess in abundance. I don't think the offensive downgrade would be that great. If you can get quality arms in return for Pena, do it.

M2
02-16-2006, 01:03 PM
The problem is the D-Rays need pitching, same as the Reds. Other clubs are interested in Gathright and are dangling pitching prospects. The Reds can't match that.

Who's dangling prospects? IMO, the D-Rays would be foolish to turn down a legit AA or above pitching prospect for Gathright. I can tell you where his value's headed if he's languishing on the bench.

Mind you, I'd be dealing Crawford and Baldelli were I the D-Rays. Those are the guys on whom you could cash-in.

ochre
02-16-2006, 01:08 PM
problem is that Detroit is already loaded with bad OF/DH types(Young, Shelton, etc). I can't see them having much of an interest in Pena.
Sure, but they're a front office I'd be targeting. Pena has a bit different skillset than what they have I believe.

M2
02-16-2006, 01:14 PM
Sure, but they're a front office I'd be targeting. Pena has a bit different skillset than what they have I believe.

Agreed. Pena's got immense, non-chemical power.

IMO, if someone isn't willing to pay a lot for that, I'd be glad to keep it.

Krusty
02-16-2006, 01:19 PM
That's fairly realistic, but do you think it would turn out well for the Reds?

You're banking on the change of scenery for Affeldt and the tutelage of the Reds' high-minors coaching staff and administration on Howell (who's been rushed something serious).

I'm not sure. Especially when you consider that by this point, trading Pena results in an offensive downgrade to whoever gets the majority of those at-bats- in other words, Hatteberg, (gag)Womack, McCracken(choke), Perez...

I'm quite sure the Royals would ask for Kearns in a package like that.

flyer85
02-16-2006, 01:20 PM
Agreed. Pena's got immense, non-chemical power.especially considering his low fb%/high gb%. If he could ever learn to hit FBs he would a lock to crank out 50 year after year.

flyer85
02-16-2006, 01:22 PM
I just want Krivsky to trade nothing(or almost) nothing for something. Kind of like when the Twins raped the Giants on the AJ deal.

Benihana
02-16-2006, 01:27 PM
I like the Wily Mo to Colorado for Francis deal. I'd also love to move Milton and Detroit's choice of Wily Mo or Kearns for Jeremy Bonderman, but I doubt they would bite.

KearnsyEars
02-16-2006, 03:34 PM
I don't think at this point Wagner is worth Joey Gathright. In fact, we'd be lucky to get Joey Gathrights left shoe or little brother for Wagner. Heck we'd be lucky to get a rag for Wag at this point.

Jaycint
02-16-2006, 05:35 PM
My dream rotation:

Rich Harden
Carlos Zambrano
Jeremy Bonderman
Jeff Francis
Scott Kazmir

Get it done Wayne. :)

Doc. Scott
02-16-2006, 05:50 PM
I like the Wily Mo to Colorado for Francis deal. I'd also love to move Milton and Detroit's choice of Wily Mo or Kearns for Jeremy Bonderman, but I doubt they would bite.

I think it would take more than Pena to get Francis or Bonderman. Both of those guys are still very highly regarded. Maybe Kearns might get one or the other, but Austin would have to play better and/or the pitcher throw worse for the Rockies or Tigers to find even deals there, too.

M2
02-16-2006, 06:49 PM
I think it would take more than Pena to get Francis or Bonderman. Both of those guys are still very highly regarded. Maybe Kearns might get one or the other, but Austin would have to play better and/or the pitcher throw worse for the Rockies or Tigers to find even deals there, too.

I don't think Francis really has that much value. In fact I don't think any pitcher on the Rockies has that much value. IMO, in Colorado Francis is nothing more than a potentially good pitcher. He's never going to have what counts for a good season there. Once Pena starts jacking 30+ HR a year (and I'm thinking that starts in 2006), he'll be worth more than a guy who'll have to fight like the devil to drag his ERA under 5.00.

Doc. Scott
02-16-2006, 06:56 PM
I don't think Francis really has that much value. In fact I don't think any pitcher on the Rockies has that much value. IMO, in Colorado Francis is nothing more than a potentially good pitcher. He's never going to have what counts for a good season there. Once Pena starts jacking 30+ HR a year (and I'm thinking that starts in 2006), he'll be worth more than a guy who'll have to fight like the devil to drag his ERA under 5.00.

Sure, I agree- but to the Rockies, he's about as close to untouchable as you can get. They only have a couple of guys who fit into that category- Francis and the Asian pitcher whose name escapes me at the moment.

Topcat
02-17-2006, 01:08 AM
Trade Griffey to the Nangels in exchange for 3 of there cloged prospects like Wood and A decent AA pitcher with promise and Casey Kotchman. Love Griffey but long term this is a definte plus move. If Santana could be had in this deal I would sleep with a smile for a month.

jmcclain19
02-17-2006, 05:11 AM
If I'm Krivsky I'd be shining up the likes of Weathers and Merker to make them as sparkly as you can get them. Maybe even let them both tandem close early in the season to ratchet up that value. Then I'd be seeking out teams like Giants, who are on or near their last run and have shown a propensity in the past for giving up young talent in the hopes of getting that last piece.

When Armando bombs out early on and Weathers already has 12-15 saves by the end of May, that's when you strike. He probably wouldn't land you a Matt Cain, but maybe he nets a Merkin Valdez type?

Merker is an excellent candidate to deal to a New York/Boston/St. Louis type of team at the trade deadline.

buckeyenut
02-17-2006, 05:55 AM
Trade Griffey to the Nangels in exchange for 3 of there cloged prospects like Wood and A decent AA pitcher with promise and Casey Kotchman. Love Griffey but long term this is a definte plus move. If Santana could be had in this deal I would sleep with a smile for a month.

Griffey playing in the WBC might actually help something like this. He had a nice year last year, but got hurt at the end. He can show at WBC he is 100% and raring to go. If he is ready from the start to do what he did midseason last year, someone will definitely want him. And it might even be us! :)

PuffyPig
02-17-2006, 11:22 AM
I like the Wily Mo to Colorado for Francis deal. I'd also love to move Milton and Detroit's choice of Wily Mo or Kearns for Jeremy Bonderman, but I doubt they would bite.

If they wouldn't trade Bonderman for Pena or Kearns, why would adding MIlton sweeten the pot? Pena or Kearns by themselves is worth considerably more than Pena and Milton.

Krusty
02-18-2006, 09:12 AM
What if some teams offers a deal for Dunn that is similar to the one the Indians got for Bartolo Colon (shortstop Brandon Phillips, outfielder Grady Sizemore, LHP Cliff Lee and lst baseman Lee Stevens)? Do the Reds trade Dunn knowning it would hurt like hell but in the longterm would bolster the club?

Two teams I can think of interested in Dunn would be the Angels and Astros. The Angels need another power hitter and Dunn's contract could be inticing to the Angels. A deal of Casey Kotchman, RHP Ervin Santana and one of their infield prospects would help the Reds in their rebuilding process. The Astros are loaded with young arms in their farm system. And if they offer three, which two are in their top 10 prospects, does Krivsky pull the trigger knowing that he has Hatteberg to fill in for the2006 season?

KronoRed
02-18-2006, 11:58 AM
Any trade for Dunn needs to be lots and lots of pitchers, 2 of whom are MLB ready right now.

Also, don't trade him in the NL.

WMR
02-18-2006, 08:41 PM
Let's pry Dontrelle away from the Marlins. They've traded everyone else.

Spitball
02-19-2006, 08:56 AM
I'd like to see Felipe Lopez offered to the Twins for Francisco Liriano and Jason Bartlett.

You'd think Liriano would be pretty much untouchable, but the Twins are a contender with Juan Castro and Jason Bartlett at shortstop. Their rotation should be set with Scott Baker as the number five starter behind Santana, Radke, Lohse, and Silva. Their system is loaded with pitching. Lopez should be attractive to them because is an all-star who might be set to put up very good offensive numbers.

Liriano is just what the Reds need. Lopez is just what the Twins need.

Krusty
02-19-2006, 11:03 AM
I'd like to see Felipe Lopez offered to the Twins for Francisco Liriano and Jason Bartlett.

You'd think Liriano would be pretty much untouchable, but the Twins are a contender with Juan Castro and Jason Bartlett at shortstop. Their rotation should be set with Scott Baker as the number five starter behind Santana, Radke, Lohse, and Silva. Their system is loaded with pitching. Lopez should be attractive to them because is an all-star who might be set to put up very good offensive numbers.

Liriano is just what the Reds need. Lopez is just what the Twins need.

I don't know if the Twins would make that deal. Down the road Bartlett should be a solid major league shortstop, and we know what Liriano will be.

If anything, most new GMs first moves are usually with the teams they came from because they are familar with the players in the orgainzation. Reds need a closer and Jesse Crain would be a fine option. Reds need a starter and RHP Scott Baker and LHP Liriano fits that bill.

I still think the best option for the Reds is a trade with the Dodgers. Adam Dunn and either LHP Chris Hammond or LHP Kent Mercker to the Dodgers for RHPs Chad Billingsley, John Broxton and lst baseman Heep Soo Choi is intriguing.

KronoRed
02-19-2006, 11:21 AM
I'd like to see Felipe Lopez offered to the Twins for Francisco Liriano and Jason Bartlett.

I like it, and I'm in favor of trading Lopez before Dunn.

Krusty
02-19-2006, 11:37 AM
I like it, and I'm in favor of trading Lopez before Dunn.

I think I would rather trade Dunn. It is easier to replace a power hitting lst baseman and left fielder than it is a shortstop capable of hitting 25-30 home runs and hitting 90+ RBIs. If Lopez keeps improving on his numbers, he might surpass Larkin in regards to hitting as a major league shortstop.

M2
02-19-2006, 11:44 AM
I think I would rather trade Dunn. It is easier to replace a power hitting lst baseman and left fielder than it is a shortstop capable of hitting 25-30 home runs and hitting 90+ RBIs. If Lopez keeps improving on his numbers, he might surpass Larkin in regards to hitting as a major league shortstop.

The Reds just signed Dunn, hopefully to keep him around. What Dunn does doesn't grow on trees and what you've suggested the Reds deal him for isn't nearly what I'd want for him.

As for Lopez, let's see if his BB rate recovers this season. His defense is never going to be better than fair-to-middling, which is fine if he rakes. I'd be willing to trade him for Liriano, but not Billingsley (who'll go the way of Edwin Jackson soon enough). Minnesota might not be willing to make the swap, but if the Twins have decided to let a lousy offense croak the team year-in, year-out then no one's going to stop them.

BoydsOfSummer
02-19-2006, 12:20 PM
I'd like to see Krivsky trade Eric Milton for Justin Verlander.

Krusty
02-19-2006, 12:29 PM
I'd like to see Krivsky trade Eric Milton for Justin Verlander.

Krivsky pulls that off and he should be given Executive of The Year.

RedsManRick
02-19-2006, 12:55 PM
Tony Womack for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter please.

KronoRed
02-19-2006, 03:29 PM
My thinking on trading Lopez first is we would get a haul for him, position of need for a lot of teams, young cheap, he could bring us a nice bunch of prospects.

We need to accept that the Reds need major work, trade Lopez and make sure one of the things coming back is a SS/2b prospect.

Spitball
02-19-2006, 05:42 PM
My thinking on trading Lopez first is we would get a haul for him, position of need for a lot of teams, young cheap, he could bring us a nice bunch of prospects.

We need to accept that the Reds need major work, trade Lopez and make sure one of the things coming back is a SS/2b prospect.

I agree, Krono. The Reds need pitching. The Reds have to acquire better pitching. The Reds have a player who earned all-star status at an important position and could centerpiece an attractive deal.

Their offense can afford to play a better glove and weaker bat at shortstop, but they can't expect to be any better without improving the starting pitching.

Spitball
02-19-2006, 05:52 PM
How about Lopez, Pena, and Merker for Liriana, Bartlett, and Lew Ford?

The Reds get pitching and some extra while the contending Twins fill gaping holes, an all-star shortstop, much needed power, and a replacement for lefty Romero.

Krusty
02-19-2006, 09:53 PM
How about Lopez, Pena, and Merker for Liriana, Bartlett, and Lew Ford?

The Reds get pitching and some extra while the contending Twins fill gaping holes, an all-star shortstop, much needed power, and a replacement for lefty Romero.

I doubt the Twins would do it because it wouldn't improve their club that much.

M2
02-20-2006, 01:07 AM
I doubt the Twins would do it because it wouldn't improve their club that much.

You're kidding me, right?

The Twins finished 14th in scoring in the AL last year and it's entirely possible they'll be even worse in 2006.

Krusty
02-20-2006, 07:45 AM
You're kidding me, right?

The Twins finished 14th in scoring in the AL last year and it's entirely possible they'll be even worse in 2006.


You want to trade Lopez after he had his breakout year? Do you realize shortstops that can swing the bat like that don't grow on trees. He might not be a gold glove shortstop but his defense will be fine.

In order to have a contending team, you need to be strong up the middle. Trading Lopez after we have waited two + years to have him blossom would be shooting the Reds in the foot once again.

Spitball
02-20-2006, 08:41 AM
You want to trade Lopez after he had his breakout year? Do you realize shortstops that can swing the bat like that don't grow on trees. He might not be a gold glove shortstop but his defense will be fine.

In order to have a contending team, you need to be strong up the middle. Trading Lopez after we have waited two + years to have him blossom would be shooting the Reds in the foot once again.

I would trade Lopez in a second for a major league ready pitcher of Liriana's ilk. Actually, if the Twins were not contenders, deep in starting pitchers, and in need of a shortstop, there is no way they trade a Liriana. The Reds need starting pitchers. Outside of possibly Dunn, I don't think the Reds should consider anyone untouchable in the pursuit of starting pitching. I would trade Lopez right now for pitching while his value is high. Would Sean Casey have brought a Dave Williams quality pitcher if they'd traded him after his 1999 season? Smart teams trade a player while the value is high.

Also, you say contending teams are strong up the middle? I'm not sure what to say to that, but the last time I looked the pitcher was in the very middle. Besides, the Reds are not even close to being in that particular neighborhood. But I'll tell you this, contenders are really built on pitching. Lopez is replaceable, but the Reds need starting pitching.

M2
02-20-2006, 11:20 AM
You want to trade Lopez after he had his breakout year? Do you realize shortstops that can swing the bat like that don't grow on trees. He might not be a gold glove shortstop but his defense will be fine.

In order to have a contending team, you need to be strong up the middle. Trading Lopez after we have waited two + years to have him blossom would be shooting the Reds in the foot once again.

Now, wait a cotton-pickin' second here. You're the guy who just said Lopez AND Pena wouldn't improve the Twins that much. Now you're claiming Felipe's TOO VALUABLE to trade?

So which is it? Would Lopez be a huge boost to the Twins or not?

For the record, I wouldn't want to trade Lopez, but I'd do it for Liriano. I wouldn't do Spitball's most recent offer because it's two arms short. I'd want Ford and Bartlett out of there and some prospect arms (in which the Twins are swimming at this moment) put in.

KronoRed
02-20-2006, 11:23 AM
We have enough bats, and again with Boras on board with Lopez he chances of staying around long term with the Reds have to be questioned.

Good D in the middle + pitcher = :D

Spitball
02-20-2006, 05:51 PM
I wouldn't do Spitball's most recent offer because it's two arms short. I'd want Ford and Bartlett out of there and some prospect arms (in which the Twins are swimming at this moment) put in.

I would agree the Reds should hold out for more arms if it wouldn't kill the basic deal of Lopez for Liriana. Boof Bonser or Scott Baker would be ideal, but they have a bunch of pitchers from the 2004 draft that might be nice additions.