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flyer85
02-17-2006, 08:53 AM
Rich is the type of player who knows how to play the game.

Isn't that comforting. I have no doubt he will be the 3rd baseman on opening day. Afterall, he "knows how to play the game".:help:

OnBaseMachine
02-17-2006, 09:01 AM
You don't know how much I hate that quote. Of course he knows how to play the game or else he wouldn't have made it past Little League! Geez what a stupid quote. I feel like jumping in front of a bus everytime I hear that.

flyer85
02-17-2006, 09:03 AM
Geez what a stupid quote. It implies there must be a lot of guys who "don't know how to play the game".:laugh:

GAC
02-17-2006, 09:10 AM
I KNOW how to play the game too. Doesn't mean I deserve to start. Maybe I do? ;)

osuceltic
02-17-2006, 09:26 AM
Believe it or not, there are a lot of guys on the Reds who I would say DON'T know how to play the game. This has been a bad team fundamentally for years. Poor defensively, poor decisions, bad baserunning, no understanding of situational baseball. They play a little like a beer league softball team -- right down to the underhand tossing pitchers.

flyer85
02-17-2006, 09:27 AM
Believe it or not, there are a lot of guys on the Reds who I would say DON'T know how to play the game. This has been a bad team fundamentally for years. Poor defensively, poor decisions, bad baserunning, no understanding of situational baseball. They play a little like a beer league softball team -- right down to the underhand tossing pitchers.... thank God the Reds have guys like Rich.

traderumor
02-17-2006, 09:31 AM
Why do folks get so upset at GM speak or coach talk?

RedsManRick
02-17-2006, 09:32 AM
Why do folks get so upset at GM speak or coach talk?

Because historically with the Reds, it's not just talk, but evidence of how they truly think.

Roy Tucker
02-17-2006, 09:44 AM
You're gonna have to learn your clichés. You're gonna have to study them, you're gonna have to know them. They're your friends. Write this down: "We gotta play it one day at a time."

GAC
02-17-2006, 09:48 AM
Aurilia is the least of our problems. Lets concentrate on the guys who can't pitch, and are causing poor guys like Aurilia to have to run all over the place. ;)

Crosley68
02-17-2006, 10:08 AM
I agree with TR and Roy, this is coach speak, trying to say nice things about teammates........not sure what you expect the manager to say about one of his own during spring training.

Cedric
02-17-2006, 10:19 AM
I know it's Rich, but don't you expect the manager to pump up ALL of his players?

flyer85
02-17-2006, 10:35 AM
Why do folks get so upset at GM speak or coach talk?I don't, I find it humorous. What a quote like "he knows how to play to game" show is that there isn't really anything objective you can point to in a players numbers to justify his existence. So Narron appeals to the subjective and intangible to justify his future 3rd baseman.

flyer85
02-17-2006, 10:36 AM
I know it's Rich, but don't you expect the manager to pump up ALL of his players?would be nice but most of them don't have any objective data that would allow someone to "pump them up". Thus the appeal to the intangible.

REDREAD
02-17-2006, 10:43 AM
If Aurillia gets the majority of starts at 3b, I'll be one of the people yelling the loudest, but I think we need to wait and see. Let's give Narron (now free of DanO's influence) at least a chance to make the right moves.

flyer85
02-17-2006, 10:52 AM
If Aurillia gets the majority of starts at 3b, I'll be one of the people yelling the loudest, but I think we need to wait and see. Let's give Narron (now free of DanO's influence) at least a chance to make the right moves.I found it telling that in the article in the Enquirer
a) Narron did not mention Aurilia as being part of the 2B competition
b) Narron is "hoping Edwin Encarnacion plays well and shows he can be a major-league player." I can read between the lines. If EE doesn't have a greeat spring his ticket will be punched for AAA.

traderumor
02-17-2006, 11:06 AM
I found it telling that in the article in the Enquirer
a) Narron did not mention Aurilia as being part of the 2B competition
b) Narron is "hoping Edwin Encarnacion plays well and shows he can be a major-league player." I can read between the lines. If EE doesn't have a greeat spring his ticket will be punched for AAA.

The number of posts on the matter say you're upset ;)

westofyou
02-17-2006, 11:10 AM
Let's give Narron (now free of DanO's influence) at least a chance to make the right moves.

I don't buy that Dan O influenced the managers to play RA, that was their own call. Face it, the Reds have been managed since 1997 by a succession of ex-catchers who didn't play for Davey Johnson, No, they played for guys who played for Rickey or they sat all game next to Gene Mauch.

They themselves often had substandard skills and in turn got by on drive and guile.

That's a BIG part of the game, it's a huge perception and a reality, teams like players who are emotional and not the ones who drift through the game like Willie Green, they like guys who hone in on playing mentally since they need that aspect to make them at least average MLB players. Some have the theory that those type of guys help you win by not making mistakes, the payoff in the mind of the manager is that the "Vet" will not dangle the game over the ledge with youthful indiscrections (IE "Not playing the game the way it should be played")

Is it right?

Is it fair?

Not really.. however is it a big part of the game? Yes it is and it always will be, because it's a game of people, not types. Here's and example of how the RA "type" of player is viewed by "baseball people"

When Larry Bowa first came up he had a portion of the the tools to make the big leagues, however he couldn't hit at all and the scouts all LOVED him... he had the drive, he had the "stuff" to make the team and by gawd he did.

Hurray for the underdog!!!

Contrast that with an opinion on Richie (Dick) Allen from the same guy.


"Richie Allen had all the tools, if he had been 1/2 as "gritty" as Larry Bowa he would have made the Hall of Fame."

It's somewhat debatable that Allen should be in the HOF (I say yes), what's not debatable is that a good portion of the baseball people have let their human aspect of the game influence their decision on whether that makes him worthy of the HOF or not.

It's a BIG part of the game this human value judgement.

As is the manager with the mic or the scribe in front of him spouting off coaching lingo about effort and playing the game right.

creek14
02-17-2006, 11:14 AM
Rich is the type of player who knows how to play the game.
I bet he give 110%.
I bet he comes ready to play.
I bet he leaves it all on the field.
I bet no one takes him out of his rhythm.
I bet he can execute.
I bet he plays all nine innings.

There, that should give Jerry a couple weeks of quotes about good ole Richie boy.

RFS62
02-17-2006, 11:22 AM
I don't buy that Dan O influenced the managers to play RA, that was their own call. Face it, the Reds have been managed since 1997 by a succession of ex-catchers who didn't play for Davey Johnson, No, they played for guys who played for Rickey or they sat all game next to Gene Mauch.

They themselves often had substandard skills and in turn got by on drive and guile.

That's a BIG part of the game, it's a huge perception and a reality, teams like players who are emotional and not the ones who drift through the game like Willie Green, they like guys who hone in on playing mentally since they need that aspect to make them at least average MLB players. Some have the theory that those type of guys help you win by not making mistakes, the payoff in the mind of the manager is that the "Vet" will not dangle the game over the ledge with youthful indiscrections (IE "Not playing the game the way it should be played")

Is it right?

Is it fair?

Not really.. however is it a big part of the game? Yes it is and it always will be, because it's a game of people, not types. Here's and example of how the RA "type" of player is viewed by "baseball people"

When Larry Bowa first came up he had a portion of the the tools to make the big leagues, however he couldn't hit at all and the scouts all LOVED him... he had the drive, he had the "stuff" to make the team and by gawd he did.

Hurray for the underdog!!!

Contrast that with an opinion on Richie (Dick) Allen from the same guy.



It's somewhat debatable that Allen should be in the HOF (I say yes), what's not debatable is that a good portion of the baseball people have let their human aspect of the game influence their decision on whether that makes him worthy of the HOF or not.

It's a BIG part of the game this human value judgement.

As is the manager with the mic or the scribe in front of him spouting off coaching lingo about effort and playing the game right.



I completely agree.

You have to understand this to fully understand baseball.

KronoRed
02-17-2006, 11:59 AM
I bet he give 110%.
I bet he comes ready to play.
I bet he leaves it all on the field.
I bet no one takes him out of his rhythm.
I bet he can execute.
I bet he plays all nine innings.

There, that should give Jerry a couple weeks of quotes about good ole Richie boy.
Can we start a list of why EE will be on the bench?

He Needs Experience
He Doesn't Have All The Intaglbles Yet
We Need Solid Contact Guys
He's Too Young

flyer85
02-17-2006, 12:01 PM
Can we start a list of why EE will be on the bench?

He Needs Experience
He Doesn't Have All The Intaglbles Yet
We Need Solid Contact Guys
He's Too YoungHe needs to play everyday.

registerthis
02-17-2006, 12:23 PM
EE needs some seasoning.

KittyDuran
02-17-2006, 12:29 PM
I KNOW how to play the game too. Doesn't mean I deserve to start. Maybe I do? ;)Me, too!!! [but I throw like a girl...:devil:]

flyer85
02-17-2006, 12:35 PM
Me, too!!! [but I throw like a girl...:devil:]Probably don't know how to adjust a jockstrap either.:help:

KittyDuran
02-17-2006, 12:42 PM
Probably don't know how to adjust a jockstrap either.:help:I do know how to adjust my [C] cups...:eek:

flyer85
02-17-2006, 12:45 PM
I do know how to adjust my [C] cups...:eek:That's not a big deal, there are always lots of guys willing to help with that.:jump:

lollipopcurve
02-17-2006, 12:45 PM
Can we start a list of why EE will be on the bench?

He doesn't do the subatomic things.

flyer85
02-17-2006, 12:47 PM
He doesn't do the subatomic things.Damn ... I never would have thought of that one.:bang:

MartyFan
02-17-2006, 12:59 PM
I don't, I find it humorous. What a quote like "he knows how to play to game" show is that there isn't really anything objective you can point to in a players numbers to justify his existence. So Narron appeals to the subjective and intangible to justify his future 3rd baseman.

Do you really think that a coach or GM is going to give a deep thought on a players skills in the press?

Narron, Krivsky, EVERY manager and GM is speaking to the average fan who automatically paints a picture of a ball player that goes back to the 50's when they hear this sort of response...it says they have "grit, substance, hustle, etc...who ever the reporter was that used the quote is just as guilty for trotting that phrase out as "news" in their article.

At the end, you are right...it is all subjective and intangible...if you or I want statements other than that we'll need to talk to "the man" directly...then I wouldn't say he would say much more than that to any of us.

traderumor
02-17-2006, 01:22 PM
EE needs some seasoning.A new nickname? Call him "Lawry's"

TeamBoone
02-17-2006, 01:28 PM
Narron, Krivsky, EVERY manager and GM is speaking to the average fan who automatically paints a picture of a ball player that goes back to the 50's when they hear this sort of response...it says they have "grit, substance, hustle, etc...who ever the reporter was that used the quote is just as guilty for trotting that phrase out as "news" in their article.

Yup, and that average fan is taking in every word he/she hears as gospel. When a mediochre player is touted like that, the average fan is being mislead. They should be touting the players that deserve it and just make a passing comment about others... something like "Richie's going to be versatile off the bench".

traderumor
02-17-2006, 01:34 PM
Yup, and that average fan is taking in every word he/she hears as gospel. When a mediochre player is touted like that, the average fan is being mislead. They should be touting the players that deserve it and just make a passing comment about others... something like "Richie's going to be versatile off the bench".But the average (or casual) fan will never know they're misled because they could care less if Richie is really any good or not. As long as they can remember him making a few good plays, he's gold. That same fan is distressed because WMP has a poor work ethic (because Marty is a HOFer), Adam Dunn strikes out too much (remember Dave Kingman?), and wants to know when Pete's gonna be reinstated. They don't need Jerry Narron to mislead them.

Blimpie
02-17-2006, 01:37 PM
You're gonna have to learn your clichés. You're gonna have to study them, you're gonna have to know them. They're your friends. Write this down: "We gotta play it one day at a time.""Rich has gotta play this game with fear and ignorance..." :D

KearnsyEars
02-17-2006, 01:49 PM
I don't have a problem with RA if he stays healthy (my concern for him) and hits the same as last year. Dude hat some pop and has always had some. I think in this park if he plays as many games as last year he hits 25 HR and the guys in the clubhouse seem to like him.

TeamBoone
02-17-2006, 03:14 PM
But the average (or casual) fan will never know they're misled because they could care less if Richie is really any good or not. As long as they can remember him making a few good plays, he's gold. That same fan is distressed because WMP has a poor work ethic (because Marty is a HOFer), Adam Dunn strikes out too much (remember Dave Kingman?), and wants to know when Pete's gonna be reinstated. They don't need Jerry Narron to mislead them.

Absolutely! All those involved should be more careful about how they talk about the players in a public setting.

KronoRed
02-17-2006, 03:30 PM
I don't have a problem with RA if he stays healthy (my concern for him) and hits the same as last year. Dude hat some pop and has always had some. I think in this park if he plays as many games as last year he hits 25 HR and the guys in the clubhouse seem to like him.
He can't play D, he can't hit on the road and we have better options at all spots he can play.

Backup fine, starter..no.

BCubb2003
02-17-2006, 03:31 PM
EE needs some seasoning.

No pepper in front of the stands.

Matt700wlw
02-17-2006, 03:33 PM
I always like when he calls himself a "baseball guy."

Well gee....I'd sure hope so considering you work in major league baseball.

:help:

4256 Hits
02-17-2006, 10:51 PM
Here is more Miley like quotes coming from Narron, note that Womack was listed 1st and 2nd base. The sooner he is gone the better but they need to bring a manager in that know to play the youngsters because right now the Reds don't have the pitching to win.


Competitive spots: "Definitely pitching. The bullpen spots. We're looking for some guys to step up and pitch well for us out of the bullpen. A lot will depend on Paul Wilson and where he is, the fourth or fifth spot in the rotation."

Third base: "I think all of us are hoping Edwin Encarnacion plays well and shows he can be a major-league player."

Second base: "Tony Womack, Ryan Freel and (non-roster invitee Frank) Menechino. We've got a lot of depth there. That's nice to have."

Where Rich Aurilia fits in: "Richie can play second, third, short, maybe even a little first base sometime. A lot depends on how things play out. Rich is the type of player who knows how to play the game. For a manager, no matter where you put him, you know he's going to play it right."

Which relievers he sees as potential closers: "Every one of them. I really don't think it does any good to talk about it the day before we start."

GAC
02-18-2006, 05:27 AM
If Aurillia gets the majority of starts at 3b, I'll be one of the people yelling the loudest, but I think we need to wait and see. Let's give Narron (now free of DanO's influence) at least a chance to make the right moves.

Fully agree RR. But then, that would take all the fun out of it on here for some. ;)

I remember a couple years ago when everyone was screaming and bragging on Brandon Larson as our future 3Bman. Whatever happened to him? ;)

Am I saying EE is another Larson? Of course not. Just saying that this team needs, along with patience, to exercise some caution with EE (age 23) in his development. No one denies that maturity is an issue with EE. And I think that is why guys like Aurilia and Womack are here.

But what happens if he does go into a prolonged "tailspin"? Do we just suffer and stick it out, while keeping our fingers crossed and hope he comes out of it? PATIENCE is not something alot of Red fans don't have. In fact, alot of times, they don't even like to hear the word mentioned.

We have HUGE question marks right now at 3rd and 2nd base. And I don't think anyone who supports the RA signing (and especially the Womack signing) feels these two are the longterm answers. But until kids like EE, and maybe either Olmedo or Bergolla, step up and prove themselves on a consistent, daily basis, then we are gonna see a platooning situation with these other two.

I'm glad they signed Aurilia. It gives some something to talk about, and DO at the games, this year? ;)

KronoRed
02-18-2006, 12:03 PM
Yes we suffer and stick it out, he has nothing left to prove in the minors.

I fear EE struggles for about a week and loses the job for good to solid vet Aurilia, if Rich was just a backup fine..but I doubt that's how it goes.

Don't even get me started on Womack, he was by far one of the worst players in MLB last year, release him and let Freel have the job.

GAC
02-18-2006, 12:24 PM
I fear EE struggles for about a week and loses the job for good to solid vet Aurilia,

I just don't see that happening. ;)

membengal
02-18-2006, 12:48 PM
At least, if I recall that dark time, Larson was given plenty of opportunities and failed. I think we just want EE to get that same chance.

KittyDuran
02-18-2006, 01:02 PM
At least, if I recall that dark time, Larson was given plenty of opportunities and failed. I think we just want EE to get that same chance.Larson was a first round draft choice - a choice the Reds went with instead of Lance Berkman, IIRC. The Reds FO were going to try to get their money's worth and some pride w/Larson if they could - hence the many opportunities. IIRC, didn't the Reds get EE from the D'mitri Young trade with Detroit - but didn't the Reds also have to pony up some money for him as well? Whatever the reason, no one denies that EE has really nothing to prove in the minors (except for his defense, but the hot corner is one of the hardest to master) - but GAC was right when he questions whether or not we as fans, or the Reds FO have the patience to allow EE the time and games to mature fully as a major leaguer (the same goes for Wily Mo, IMHO). If the team is more than 10-15 games out - who cares? But if they are competitive....?:confused:

KronoRed
02-18-2006, 01:17 PM
We better have Patience, the pitching is gonna be bad even if we have a prime Brooks Robinson at 3B ;)

westofyou
02-18-2006, 01:21 PM
Brandon Larson could not carry EE's jock, worst #1 position pick by the Reds in the Bowden era has to be Larson.

membengal
02-18-2006, 01:21 PM
To be clear, I am content to be patient as hell with EE, and hope the front office and manager feel the same way.

Edit: EE was easily the most impressive player I saw last spring in Sarasota. The ball makes that special sound you like to hear when he makes contact at the plate. I yearn for him to succeed. Yearn.

pedro
02-18-2006, 02:35 PM
IIRC, didn't the Reds get EE from the D'mitri Young trade with Detroit - but didn't the Reds also have to pony up some money for him as well?

Actually the Reds got EE and Ruben Mateo for Rob Bell. One of Bowdens' better trades IMO.

Redsland
02-18-2006, 02:37 PM
Yep. EE was considered a throw-in because we already had an Encarnacion on the roster. ;)

Betterread
02-18-2006, 03:14 PM
Yup, and that average fan is taking in every word he/she hears as gospel. When a mediochre player is touted like that, the average fan is being mislead. They should be touting the players that deserve it and just make a passing comment about others... something like "Richie's going to be versatile off the bench".

You make a good point. However, there are only a few very special players who consistently provide the same competitive performance game after game and year after year. Seemingly less-talented players frequently out-perform more talented ones. For the entire team to compete well, you need good performances from all postitions, so if a particular player is not effective, you need other players to step up and replace the regular player. Many times players start as backups then become regulars. Good backups need the confidence of the manager, so it is appropriate for them so say similiar things as Narron did. While fans have favorite players and some players have personalities that make them more popular than some of their peers, these things should not interfere with a team-first atmosphere that every manager strives to create. I believe that one of the reasons the Reds have done poorly the last few years is that they lack the requisite team unity.