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View Full Version : Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...



redsmetz
02-22-2006, 11:36 AM
Article in today's Post about Dave Williams. Two paragraphs jumped out at me:

"I don't have that overpowering type of fastball or anything," he admitted. "By no means am I going to dazzle you or anything like that, but hopefully I can show these guys I can keep them in games, and with the offense they have here, I can kind of hold my own fate in my hands."

Doesn't he sound like the type of pitcher that needs to sit down and have a long, long talk with Tom Browning? I'd say the same thing for Eric Milton, even though he's not a lefty. I think Browning can teach these guys how to pitch smart.

The mention of the Reds' prolific offense isn't a cop-out on Williams' part; he'd just like a little more help when he's on the mound.

While the Reds led the National League with 820 runs last season, only two teams in baseball scored fewer runs that the Pirates' 680. Spread out over 25 starts, that extra offense is going to make a difference in wins and losses, and Williams hopes to tilt the balance in the other direction this year.

That's a 140 run difference between the Pirates and us and we just finished ahead of them. That's less than a run a game. I just checked the stats for last year - we gave up 889 runs - again, dropping a run a game and we're looking at a whole different ballgame. Pitching smart, playing smart, and this team can take care of itself. I know that's a tall order, but I would like to hope they're up to the challenge.

joe

Willy
02-22-2006, 11:43 AM
I'd say the same thing for Eric Milton, even though he's not a lefty. I think Browning can teach these guys how to pitch smart.


Milton's not Lefty???

redsmetz
02-22-2006, 11:46 AM
I'd say the same thing for Eric Milton, even though he's not a lefty. I think Browning can teach these guys how to pitch smart.


Milton's not Lefty???

I'm sorry, my mistake :bang: - clearly I think Browning can help these guys learn how to pitch smarter.

westofyou
02-22-2006, 11:52 AM
we gave up 889 runs

The Reds, god love em not me gave up all those runs.

This is the top ten WORST Reds teams in runs allowed vs the league, only the pre and post BRM teams improved and the first wave was helped by expansion and a healthy farm system and the second by a healthy farm system, both were a result of Bob Howsam though, and as time goes on that reign looks more like an anomaly than a norm.

The rest of those teams took awhile to revover, except for the Bowden created monster that O'Brien played Seymour to in the Reds pitching version of Little Shop of Horrors.

This is how bad the Reds pitching is, 4 out of the last 5 years rank as 4 of the worst Reds pitching staffs in modern history. Getting out of that at a run less a game would be a historic event.


RUNS YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE
1 Reds 2005 -161 889 728
2 Reds 1901 -160 818 658
3 Reds 2004 -155 907 752
4 Reds 2003 -140 886 746
5 Reds 1968 -107 673 566
6 Reds 1957 -106 781 675
7 Reds 1969 -103 768 665
8 Reds 1934 -91 801 710
9 Reds 2001 -88 850 762
10 Reds 1984 -85 747 662

redsmetz
02-22-2006, 12:09 PM
[QUOTE]This is how bad the Reds pitching is, 4 out of the last 5 years rank as 4 of the worst Reds pitching staffs in modern history. Getting out of that at a run less a game would be a historic event.[QUOTE]

Of course, the truth is, that's a huge jump for any team. My statement, as wishful as it was, is more the hope that some small improvement, playing the smart ball Jerry Narron is professing, will hopefully help a team with an offense full of potential (and clearly capable of scoring runs). (Did I throw enough caveats in there to extract myself from my earlier faux pas and hyperbole? :help:

Chip R
02-22-2006, 12:23 PM
Of course, the truth is, that's a huge jump for any team. My statement, as wishful as it was, is more the hope that some small improvement, playing the smart ball Jerry Narron is professing, will hopefully help a team with an offense full of potential (and clearly capable of scoring runs). (Did I throw enough caveats in there to extract myself from my earlier faux pas and hyperbole? :help:

I don't want to harsh your buzz and sound like the voice of doom and gloom but the majority of these guys could pitch as smart as Greg Maddux and they aren't going to do well. Look how many times the pitching staff let the opposition score 6, 7, 8 and more runs a game. Then look how many times they allowed less than 4 runs a game. The Reds need to start winning more games 8-2 rather than 10-8.

Johnny Footstool
02-22-2006, 12:28 PM
Playing the "smart ball" Narron seems to be professing (i.e. small ball) doesn't fit the Reds lineup. Indeed, any play that involves playing for one run at a time is going to bite this team, because the pitching staff is going to be giving up runs in bunches. "Smart ball" would be playing according to the strengths of your ballclub rather than trying to squish your team into a particular mold.

As for the pitching staff, well, no amound of smart pitching can offset the fact that 3 of the projected starters would have a hard time cracking the rotation of your average Independent League team. Sorry to sound like a pessimist, but it seems like the best we can hope for is that they get incredibly hit-lucky in terms of BABIP.

redsmetz
02-22-2006, 12:52 PM
Playing the "smart ball" Narron seems to be professing (i.e. small ball) doesn't fit the Reds lineup. Indeed, any play that involves playing for one run at a time is going to bite this team, because the pitching staff is going to be giving up runs in bunches. "Smart ball" would be playing according to the strengths of your ballclub rather than trying to squish your team into a particular mold.

I'm not sure I agree that "smart ball" is the same thing as "small ball". I think they're entirely different. Certainly there are situations where small ball is called for from some of your team - moving runners over, manufacturing runs, etc. Smart ball, in my mind, is partly that, but it's also knowing where to hit a ball in a given situation, how you run the basepaths, where to position yourself in the field and who to throw to. It's what pitch do you throw when and to which hitter and knowing that your fielders know what to anticipate and all those things that make baseball so much for complicated that many people know. I think that's what Narrons talking about.

Can the rates make that vast an improvement? It will certainly be tough. Frankly, I think we are in the toughest division in baseball - top to bottom. And that includes Pittsburgh and Milwaukee. This will not be an easy division to win and it won't be an easy division to find the wild card. The pessimism is clearly understandable. I'd like to believe a new day is dawning. Certainly, if not this year (and that's very unlikely), it may not be far off.

Redsland
02-22-2006, 12:57 PM
Smallball, smartball...

...when the manager of a team that will hit 200 homeruns obsesses about team speed, I get nervous.

RANDY IN INDY
02-22-2006, 12:59 PM
I don't have a problem with certain players in the lineup being able to play smart, execute, whatever you want to call it. There are situations in a lot of games that you need to be able to score "a single run." I don't hear anyone saying that the Griffey's, Dunn's, Kearn's or Pena's of the world should start playing "small ball."

I don't have a problem with guys like Freel, Lopez, Aurillia, Womack, Denorfia, and even Jason Larue being able to execute so that the big guys have a guy in scoring position to drive in a particular situation. (the pitching staff being able to sacrifice bunt would be a "huge" help) I don't hear anybody saying the Reds are going to operate in small ball mode all the time. Has anyone heard that? I certainly haven't. Nothing but wild speculation. I find it hard to believe that Jerry Narron or anyone else for that matter, is going to try and turn an offense packed with sluggers, into a singles hitting, one run at a time offense. It's just plain ridiculous to think that is what is going on. There is nothing wrong with Major League Baseball players being able to execute to score a run when it is necessary to be in that mode. Matter of fact, it should be that way.

westofyou
02-22-2006, 01:05 PM
Smallball, smartball...

...when the manager of a team that will hit 200 homeruns obsesses about team speed, I get nervous.
572 EBH last year, 5th most in NL history.

Last year the pitching staff allowed the 31st most runs in modern NL history, the year before 19th, the year before that 35th.

If "smartball" is code for quality pitching then I'm all for it.

Redsland
02-22-2006, 01:07 PM
Sorry to sound like a pessimist, but it seems like the best we can hope for is that they get incredibly hit-lucky in terms of BABIP.
And just as our pitching staff isn't designed for high strikeouts, neither is our defense designed for low BABIP.

corkedbat
02-22-2006, 01:10 PM
Article in today's Post about Dave Williams. Two paragraphs jumped out at me:

"I don't have that overpowering type of fastball or anything," he admitted. "By no means am I going to dazzle you or anything like that, but hopefully I can show these guys I can keep them in games, and with the offense they have here, I can kind of hold my own fate in my hands."



Translation: "I'm scrappy" :devil:

Johnny Footstool
02-22-2006, 01:18 PM
I'm not sure I agree that "smart ball" is the same thing as "small ball". I think they're entirely different.

I think they're entirely different, too. But Narron strikes me as an old-school "baseball man" who thinks stealing bases and sacrificing outs to move a runner is the right way to play the game. He's in love with veterans who he thinks can do "the little things". The fact that he's considering Womack and Aurilia over Freel and Encarnacion tells me he's not really interested in anything but his own vision of "smart ball."

wolfboy
02-22-2006, 05:54 PM
Playing the "smart ball" Narron seems to be professing (i.e. small ball) doesn't fit the Reds lineup. Indeed, any play that involves playing for one run at a time is going to bite this team, because the pitching staff is going to be giving up runs in bunches. "Smart ball" would be playing according to the strengths of your ballclub rather than trying to squish your team into a particular mold.

Couldn't agree with this more. There's nothing smart about what Narron has shown us so far. If he wants to add speed to the lineup, I can live with that. Just don't do it in a way that will hurt the team. Freel and EdE are speedy and they get on base. What a novel concept. Too bad Narron has indicated a preference for guys with baseball agoraphobia (the fear of leaving home for say......first base) like Womack and Aurilia. You know, the "professional at bat" type. I just can't wait to read the daily "trade Dunn NOW" threads when his RBI totals are down. Of course, some will conveniently ignore the fact that the "baseball guys" in front of him can't get on base.

KronoRed
02-22-2006, 06:19 PM
Translation: "I'm scrappy" :devil:
That's just what we need more of.. :thumbup:

Superdude
02-22-2006, 06:44 PM
Playing the "smart ball" Narron seems to be professing (i.e. small ball) doesn't fit the Reds lineup.

I can deal with Narron trying to bring some small ball to the lineup we have, but I'm horribly worried that he's going to try and build the lineup around that philosophy(hence: being retarded enough to give Womack considerable PT :angry:)

Ravenlord
02-22-2006, 07:35 PM
(hence: being retarded enough to give Womack considerable PT :angry:)
and if you go through Narron's comments this winter, the Opening Day lineup should look something like this:

2B Womack
SS Lopez
CF Griffey
RF Kearns
1B Dunn
LF Pena
C LaRue
3B Encarnacion

creek14
02-22-2006, 07:42 PM
Translation: "I'm scrappy" :devil:
But is he Krispy?

Falls City Beer
02-22-2006, 07:46 PM
But is he Krispy?

No, just Krappy.

corkedbat
02-22-2006, 08:43 PM
But is he Krispy?


As in: "Gonna get Kreamed" ? :)

Superdude
02-23-2006, 12:23 AM
and if you go through Narron's comments this winter, the Opening Day lineup should look something like this:

2B Womack
SS Lopez
CF Griffey
RF Kearns
1B Dunn
LF Pena
C LaRue
3B Encarnacion

It could actually get worse than that considering that Narrons has made it sound as if EdE will have to turn into Barry Bonds in order to dethrone Aurilia from third base. My question is that shouldn't the GM have a major power over the manager in deciding the lineup? Is Krivsky just gonna sit back on opening day and let the veterans who do the "little things" take the starting jobs just because the manager thought it was a good idea?

2B) Freel
SS) Lopez
1B) Dunn
CF) Griffey
LF) Pena
RF) Kearns
3B) Encarnacion
C) Larue/Valentin

Making a lineup is so simple and yet managers just never get it. They always want to put a speedy, "scrappy" player at the top who can't get on base and give the starting jobs to "proven" veterans just to play it safe instead of doing what's best for the organization.