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savafan
02-23-2006, 04:12 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/sports/baseball/19chass.html?_r=2&oref=login&oref=login

Kevin Brown pitched in successive World Series in 1997 with Florida and in 1998 with San Diego then signed a seven-year, $105 million contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers. Baseball life would never be the same.

The contract completed, Brown, who will turn 41 next month, has concluded that life. His career is over.

"Kevin didn't have me pursue any teams because he wanted to see how his health was," his agent, Scott Boras, said. "He decided after the painful process last year he was not going to play. His arm is still remarkably good, but it's about his back. He had to endure a lot to throw last year."

Brown's back strains limited him to 13 starts with the Yankees last season, sent him to the disabled list three times and ended his season July 23. He finished his career with a 211-144 record.

Cyclone792
02-23-2006, 04:34 AM
Player Wins Losses Innings ERA LgERA ERA+

Kevin Brown 211 144 3256.1 3.28 4.16 127


Kevin Brown (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/brownke01.shtml) = Hall of Fame, yes or no?

savafan
02-23-2006, 04:35 AM
Player Wins Losses Innings ERA LgERA ERA+

Kevin Brown 211 144 3256.1 3.28 4.16 127


Kevin Brown (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/brownke01.shtml) = Hall of Fame, yes or no?

Very borderline in my opinion. I will have to think harder about this.

Cyclone792
02-23-2006, 04:49 AM
Yep, you're definitely not alone with that sentiment, Sava. My little snippet of career stats for Brown really doesn't go very far at all in attempting to determine Brown's HOF worthiness or not, and right now I'm still undecided. I'll likely have to pull out my list of all starting pitchers I believe should be in the Hall and see where Brown ranks in both career and peak value.

My initial gut feeling is no because of a short career, but man, that 127 ERA+ figure demands a deeper inspection. Brown gave up less than 0.60 HR/9 innings for his career, which just goes to show you how keeping the ball in the park will treat you on the mound.

RedsBaron
02-23-2006, 08:05 AM
No.
Compare Brown's career numbers with those of Bob Welch. Neither is a Hall of Famer.

MrCinatit
02-23-2006, 08:38 AM
i'm leaning towards no, as well. pretty good pitcher, but when you think of dominant pitchers in this era, Brown is not one of the top names to come to mind (ie, Maddox, Johnson, Martinez, Clemens

Strikes Out Looking
02-23-2006, 09:13 AM
No. Bert Blyleven is much more of a hall a fame candidate.

cumberlandreds
02-23-2006, 09:59 AM
No HOF. Just doesn't have the stats. If healthy he would have been a shoe in.

Heath
02-23-2006, 10:04 AM
Hate to player hate here - if Bert Blyleven can't get in, Mr. Brown stays out too.

Boy, if he was healthy....

KearnsyEars
02-23-2006, 10:14 AM
The contract completed, Brown, who will turn 41 next month, has concluded that life.

I'm no Billy Shakespeare, but is this a sentence? Or a thought?

redsmetz
02-23-2006, 10:53 AM
Player Wins Losses Innings ERA LgERA ERA+

Kevin Brown 211 144 3256.1 3.28 4.16 127


Kevin Brown (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/brownke01.shtml) = Hall of Fame, yes or no?

Baseball Reference lists similar players, two of who are HOFer's - Don Drysdale & Catfish Hunter. Among others are Orel Hershiser, Bob Welsh, Vida Blue, and Mike Mussina. I don't think he's in the category of Drysdale or Hunter. I suspect had he not been injured so much in the later years, he might have had a shot. He does rank 36th in Strikeouts, but I don't think the rest helps him much.

redsfan30
02-23-2006, 11:03 AM
It's like Skip Bayliss says, it's the Hall of Fame....not the Hall of Very Good.

MrCinatit
02-23-2006, 11:27 AM
I'm no Billy Shakespeare, but is this a sentence? Or a thought?

i stumbled on that one four times myself. another example of a writer trying to be cute - and failing miserably.

Blimpie
02-23-2006, 11:53 AM
Player Wins Losses Innings ERA LgERA ERA+

Kevin Brown 211 144 3256.1 3.28 4.16 127


Kevin Brown (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/brownke01.shtml) = Hall of Fame, yes or no?His surly attitude towards the media alone will most likely knock him "off the fence"

M2
02-23-2006, 11:54 AM
Since Brown's now made it official I'm sure we'll see an outpouring of appreciation for the man from all of his friends in the game.

M2
02-23-2006, 11:55 AM
It's like Skip Bayliss says, it's the Hall of Fame....not the Hall of Very Good.

And Bayliss belongs in the Hall of Crummy Sportswriters.

Johnny Footstool
02-23-2006, 12:06 PM
Brown was possibly the best pitcher in the game for 4 years or so. Unfortunately, poor health derailed what would have been a Hall of Fame career.

GoReds
02-23-2006, 12:09 PM
Since Brown's now made it official I'm sure we'll see an outpouring of appreciation for the man from all of his friends in the game.

Yeah.

What was his name again?

WilyMo
02-23-2006, 12:28 PM
It's like Skip Bayliss says, it's the Hall of Fame....not the Hall of Very Good.

first time I have ever agreed with Skip.

Redsland
02-23-2006, 12:29 PM
I'm no Billy Shakespeare, but is this a sentence? Or a thought?
It's a sentence (Brown has concluded that life) with an introductory clause (The contract completed) and a parenthetical (who will turn 41 next month).

:mooner:

KronoRed
02-23-2006, 12:37 PM
Player Wins Losses Innings ERA LgERA ERA+

Kevin Brown 211 144 3256.1 3.28 4.16 127


Kevin Brown (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/brownke01.shtml) = Hall of Fame, yes or no?
No.

Good career, but not good enough.

RedsManRick
02-23-2006, 01:04 PM
Great peak 96-01 but just not quite enough. My standards for HoF consideration are changing a little bit. If you can look back at an era, not mention the player, and still have a solid complete view of the league at the time, then he's probably not a HoF guy. The exception is the guy like Eddie Murray and Blyleven, who never were the real superstars, but were excellent across multiple eras.

Maldonado
02-23-2006, 03:05 PM
Perhaps if Kevin Brown weren't plagued with injuries at the end of his career, he would be more HoF calibre material. I think also that not being very popular with the press will keep him from the Hall as well.

Cyclone792
02-24-2006, 04:26 PM
This is what keeps me on the fence rather than a quick no ... I just can't rule him out quite yet ...


IP DERA WARP3
Walter Johnson 5914 3.31 194.5
Cy Young 7356 3.52 184.3
Warren Spahn 5243 3.93 155.0
Pete Alexander 5190 3.46 151.5
Tom Seaver 4782 3.62 146.4
Phil Niekro 5404 4.01 137.6
Gaylord Perry 5350 3.98 136.3
Robin Roberts 4688 3.95 131.3
Christy Mathewson 4780 3.66 130.0
Lefty Grove 3940 3.31 129.3
Steve Carlton 5217 4.05 128.7
Nolan Ryan 5386 4.11 126.6
Fergie Jenkins 4500 3.90 121.4
Dennis Eckersley 3285 3.76 120.2
Bob Gibson 3884 3.72 117.9
Kid Nichols 5056 3.71 116.9
Don Sutton 5282 4.22 114.1
Early Wynn 4564 4.31 113.8
Ted Lyons 4161 3.99 108.4
Red Ruffing 4344 4.20 107.4
Jim Palmer 3948 3.92 107.4
Bob Feller 3827 3.90 104.8
Kevin Brown 3256 3.74 104.5 20th in Career DERA
Hal Newhouser 2993 3.62 102.5
Eddie Plank 4495 3.77 99.8
Carl Hubbell 3590 3.74 98.6
Don Drysdale 3432 3.90 97.7
Hoyt Wilhelm 2254 3.49 93.9
Whitey Ford 3170 3.79 93.8
Jim Bunning 3760 4.01 92.0
Bob Lemon 2850 4.16 91.2
Juan Marichal 3507 3.95 90.5
Red Faber 4086 4.03 89.3
Eppa Rixey 4494 4.09 89.3
Amos Rusie 3778 3.70 85.3
Dazzy Vance 2966 3.55 82.6
Stan Coveleski 3082 3.69 82.0
John Clarkson 4536 3.89 80.8
Burleigh Grimes 4179 4.37 80.7
Ed Walsh 2964 3.55 80.6
Waite Hoyt 3762 4.17 78.3
Rollie Fingers 1701 3.84 76.4
Catfish Hunter 3449 4.39 74.4
Mordecai Brown 3172 3.82 72.5
Vic Willis 3996 3.99 70.2
Tim Keefe 5049 3.95 69.6
Herb Pennock 3571 4.33 68.4
Charles Radbourn 4535 4.01 67.8
Sandy Koufax 2324 3.55 66.0
Rube Waddell 2961 3.67 64.0
Joe McGinnity 3441 3.93 63.3
Dizzy Dean 1967 3.54 60.6
Pud Galvin 6003 4.11 60.5
Lefty Gomez 2503 3.94 59.5
Chief Bender 3017 4.13 56.4
Bruce Sutter 1042 3.51 55.2
Jesse Haines 3208 4.28 54.7
Addie Joss 2327 3.68 52.9
Jack Chesbro 2896 4.10 49.0
Rube Marquard 3306 4.39 46.0
Mickey Welch 4802 4.22 43.9