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View Full Version : Oh this is funny. Bowden offered Soriano to the Reds for...



paulrichjr
02-23-2006, 11:24 AM
ADAM DUNN...NOT ONCE BUT 3 different times. Man this guy must have really thought DanO was an idiot.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=gammons_peter


Soriano ready to put Nats on spotposted: Wednesday, February 22, 2006

VIERA, Fla. -- It is always appropriate to visit the Nationals on George Washington's birthday. Of course, the team still has no owner. It might not have a name, either, although MLB might do what most of the prospective ownership groups intend to do -- change the name and sell a whole new line of licensed products.
Oh yes, they also have two second basemen, at least in Alfonso Soriano's mind. So when Soriano and Jose Vidro report for their first workout Thursday, everyone is waiting for the conversation between manager Frank Robinson and Soriano. Jose Rijo, a special assistant to general manager Jim Bowden, talked to Soriano Tuesday night when he got to his hotel in Cocoa Beach, and delivered the message to the indefatigable general manager: "Not good," Rijo said. "Prepare for Plan B."

With Cristian Guzman in camp early and so slimmed and conditioned that he looks 20 years old again and word among the players that Vidro is in the best shape of his career, the Soriano question could be a mess. However, Bowden figures that Soriano has no choice.

He will make $10 million this year. Is he going to go home?

He is a free agent at the end of the season. Is he going to sit on the bench and DH in American League ballparks?

Bowden doesn't think so. "When," asks Bowden, "did players begin dictating to clubs what position they're going to play?" Or dictate to Hall of Fame managers?

Now, Bowden has always been willing to take gambles; he took a shot at Sammy Sosa and stepped it up this week, offering to double his original offer to $1 million, but after Sosa first agreed to the deal with Rijo, he changed his mind.

As Soriano drew the line between second base and left field, Bowden realized he could have a problem. He's talked to teams about trades, and offered three different Cincinnati GMs Soriano for Adam Dunn. But the market might be small for Soriano, because of his salary and because many teams consider him strictly a DH.

His Texas coaches insist Soriano is the worst defensive second baseman in the game. They also don't think he'll be a good left fielder.

"He can't catch popups, why should he be able to go back on fly balls?" asks one Rangers coach. Another Rangers official is concerned that his lack of concentration will get worse in left field with nothing going on. Then there's the 1.011/.639 (with .265 OBP) home/road OPS split as he goes from a great hitters' park to one of the toughest.

Bowden might be right, and Soriano will realize that he has no choice but to play where he's told to play. The Nationals/Grays/Dubyas/whatevers need him to hit home runs. Then again, they might have to trade him and try to get pitching, even if they sign Pedro Astacio and as encouraged as they are with Tony Armas, who is throwing very well after having a strong winter in Venezuela following an operation to loosen the capsule in his right shoulder.

No owner. No name. No Soriano. That would be a problem.

Jpup
02-23-2006, 11:26 AM
:laugh: I am sure that DanO probably considered it.

KronoRed
02-23-2006, 11:32 AM
Dan O did something right after all :D

traderumor
02-23-2006, 11:36 AM
O'Brien's was trying to figure out how to sweeten the pot when he was canned. "Surely he can't only want Dunn. I'm gonna have to add a prospect to sweeten the pot. Hee, hee, gonna snooker ole leather pants on this one just like I did Dumbrowski on the Casey deal."

flyer85
02-23-2006, 11:37 AM
It's usually best to realize you don't want someone on your team before you trade for them. Oops. Whoda thunkit.

IslandRed
02-23-2006, 11:40 AM
That "three different Cincinnati GMs" crack was pretty funny. Yeah, he could have pitched that deal to O'Brien, Kullman and Krivsky in pretty short order there.

Redsland
02-23-2006, 11:41 AM
This pre-supposes that DanO was capable of saying no to the prospect of acquiring a second baseman, which I think we can all agree is laughable.

;)

Red Leader
02-23-2006, 11:43 AM
:laugh: I am sure that DanO probably considered it.

The sad thing is, I'd probably say that this deal was nixed by someone higher up than O'Brien when it was offered.

Chip R
02-23-2006, 11:43 AM
This pre-supposes that DanO was capable of saying no to the prospect of acquiring a second baseman, which I think we can all agree is laughable.

;)

Yeah, but Soriano is too good for DanO.

KronoRed
02-23-2006, 11:48 AM
What if Allen nixed it?

Is he a hero? ;)

paulrichjr
02-23-2006, 11:50 AM
What if Allen nixed it?

Is he a hero? ;)


John Allen would have to personally save my life before I would consider him a hero. I do not care for him.

GoReds
02-23-2006, 11:53 AM
Allen wouldn't have nixed it, considering that Soriano is set to make more $$$ this year than Dunn.

Now, if the deal was Soriano and 3M for Dunn... :rolleyes:

Red Leader
02-23-2006, 11:59 AM
*Bowden in a serious voice*

"Ok then, how about Dunn and Lopez for Soriano and Cristian Guzman?"

Johnny Footstool
02-23-2006, 12:13 PM
Pena for Soriano, with the Nats picking up half his salary.

savafan
02-23-2006, 12:49 PM
Pena for Soriano, with the Nats picking up half his salary.

Can he pitch? I'd rather have Freel at 2nd.

KronoRed
02-23-2006, 01:10 PM
Pena for Soriano, with the Nats picking up half his salary.
All of his salary and he agrees to move to the OF

M2
02-23-2006, 01:13 PM
I still want to see Soriano tell Frank Robinson he's not playing OF. I'm guessing the response would be "Hey Guillen, pretend this guy is Mike Scioscia's desk."

deltachi8
02-23-2006, 01:23 PM
Can he pitch? I'd rather have Freel at 2nd.

not only that, can he catch?

creek14
02-23-2006, 02:30 PM
Man this guy must have really thought DanO was an idiot.

WOW, Jimbo must post at RedsZone, cause we all thought that he was one too. :evil:

MartyFan
02-23-2006, 03:33 PM
Man this guy must have really thought DanO was an idiot.

Of course he must have thought Kullman and "SPECIAL-K" were idiots as well to offer each of them the same deal.

Of course Pants always has put a pretty high value on his own thoughts:laugh: and fashion sense.

When is his contract up?

WVRed
02-23-2006, 04:27 PM
I wonder who this speaks worse of, the Reds or Bowden.

Chip R
02-23-2006, 04:32 PM
I don't think it speaks badly of anyone. JimBo was trying to get the Reds to do a sucker deal and the Reds didn't bite. If I were JimBo I'd be trying to take advantage of anyone to make my team better. Who better to take advantage of than DanO?

paulrichjr
02-23-2006, 04:43 PM
What does it say about Bowden when he continually asks the Reds to trade Soriano for Dunn and they obviously don't listen and are not interested in that one sided deal? Makes me think that other GMs have to think, "the idiot from Cincy/Washington is on the line..." whenever he calls. If this is the way he handled himself in the past you know he has made few friends in the industry.

This kind of stuff is one reason I like the Oakland front office. They admit to trying to make deals that help both teams not just one sided.

Marc D
02-23-2006, 04:53 PM
Who wants to bet the only reason Dan O didn't pull the trigger was that he already had Aurilia and Womack?

corkedbat
02-23-2006, 05:58 PM
I'd rather have wily mo in the OF than Soriano. He may have his problems on D, but at least he tries. I don't want any attitudes like Soriano's any where near the clubhouse. I'm worried enough about a couple of guys as it stands.

Chip R
02-23-2006, 06:23 PM
What does it say about Bowden when he continually asks the Reds to trade Soriano for Dunn and they obviously don't listen and are not interested in that one sided deal? Makes me think that other GMs have to think, "the idiot from Cincy/Washington is on the line..." whenever he calls. If this is the way he handled himself in the past you know he has made few friends in the industry.

This kind of stuff is one reason I like the Oakland front office. They admit to trying to make deals that help both teams not just one sided.

What it says about him is that he's persistant. I'm not a big fan of JimBo but you're not going to get Dunn in a trade unless you ask. You never know when you find someone stupid enough to do that deal. If they say no, what have you lost.

As for JimBo's popularity, if he's got a player some other team needs, he could be as popular as Hitler and they will do a deal with him. And don't give me that nonsense about Billy Beane being altruistic. He's out to make the best deal possible for the As and if it helps the other team, that's great. The difference between the two is that Beane has more talent to give up. And it's not like JimBo's got a history of making one-sided deals. He may be asking to make those kind of deals but when it comes down to actually consummating a trade, he hasn't been screwing teams lately.

paulrichjr
02-23-2006, 06:53 PM
What it says about him is that he's persistant. I'm not a big fan of JimBo but you're not going to get Dunn in a trade unless you ask. You never know when you find someone stupid enough to do that deal. If they say no, what have you lost.

As for JimBo's popularity, if he's got a player some other team needs, he could be as popular as Hitler and they will do a deal with him. And don't give me that nonsense about Billy Beane being altruistic. He's out to make the best deal possible for the As and if it helps the other team, that's great. The difference between the two is that Beane has more talent to give up. And it's not like JimBo's got a history of making one-sided deals. He may be asking to make those kind of deals but when it comes down to actually consummating a trade, he hasn't been screwing teams lately.

I'm sure that Billy Beane always tries to help his team (of course) but I also doubt he would call 3 different times to try to make what is clearly a one sided trade. I also have noticed that JimBo hasn't made many one sided trades lately. In fact I haven't noticed him making very many trades at all which could be due to no talent to trade or as some have suggested in the past JimBo has few friends in baseball....besides Peter Gammons.

MrCinatit
02-23-2006, 07:22 PM
as quickly as Dan0 moved, he is still probably working on the deal, attempting to get Guzman in the deal, with the Reds parting with Dunn, FeLo and two players to be named later, along with 7 million in cash.

cincinnati chili
02-23-2006, 10:56 PM
I still want to see Soriano tell Frank Robinson he's not playing OF. I'm guessing the response would be "Hey Guillen, pretend this guy is Mike Scioscia's desk."

hee hee

KronoRed
02-23-2006, 11:22 PM
I still want to see Soriano tell Frank Robinson he's not playing OF. I'm guessing the response would be "Hey Guillen, pretend this guy is Mike Scioscia's desk."
Can they televise that? ;)

Clemson
02-24-2006, 12:13 AM
milton and pena for sriano and a low level prospect

REDREAD
02-24-2006, 09:37 AM
I don't think it speaks badly of anyone. JimBo was trying to get the Reds to do a sucker deal and the Reds didn't bite. If I were JimBo I'd be trying to take advantage of anyone to make my team better. Who better to take advantage of than DanO?

Yes, Bowden has been known to make outrageous first offers to get conversation going as well. I remember him offering Jr for Vlad shortly after the Reds got Jr.. The point of offering Soriano for Dunn might've been to see what it really would take for the Nationals to get Dunn.

westofyou
02-24-2006, 11:04 AM
The point of offering Soriano for Dunn might've been to see what it really would take for the Nationals to get Dunn.

Or it could have been an attempt in trying to cover up one off the stupidist trades in recent memory.

Red Leader
02-24-2006, 11:17 AM
Or it could have been an attempt in trying to cover up one off the stupidist trades in recent memory.

I'm gonna have to go with this one.

Chip R
02-24-2006, 11:23 AM
Looks like the Soriano problem still hasn't been resolved.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-nationals-soriano&prov=ap&type=lgns

Red Leader
02-24-2006, 11:27 AM
"We've been pretty clear about being unclear," general manager Jim Bowden said.

We've had some doosies around here lately, haven't we?

Chip R
02-24-2006, 11:28 AM
.

We've had some doosies around here lately, haven't we?

Yeah, I liked that one. Sounds like he's gone to the DanO school of obfuscation.

Red Leader
02-24-2006, 11:31 AM
Yeah, I liked that one. Sounds like he's gone to the DanO school of obfuscation.

No wonder this team has lacked direction the past 8-10 years or so. Nobody knows what direction these guys want to go in because nobody understands what they're saying (or doing, for that matter).

Chip R
02-24-2006, 11:32 AM
Good thing we have Plain Speaking Wayne aboard now.

westofyou
02-24-2006, 11:32 AM
Good thing we have Plain Speaking Wayne aboard now.
PSW is the nickname for me

KronoRed
02-24-2006, 12:06 PM
Gets my vote


Also sounds like a video game

johngalt
02-24-2006, 01:44 PM
Here's one for you guys...

Soriano for Pena/Milton

1. Payroll is basically a wash for this season and gives the Reds some flexibility beyond '06 if they choose to flip Soriano.

2. Despite his defense, Soriano represents a big upgrade offensively even over guys like Aurilia and Freel.

3. Gives the Reds a chance to buy Soriano relatively low since the whole squabble is leaving Washington in a bind, and then if he produces as expected the first half, allows them to sell him higher at the trading deadline for prospects/pitching.

4. Keeps Narron from running Milton out there every fifth day.

Chip R
02-24-2006, 01:54 PM
Here's one for you guys...

Soriano for Pena/Milton

1. Payroll is basically a wash for this season and gives the Reds some flexibility beyond '06 if they choose to flip Soriano.

2. Despite his defense, Soriano represents a big upgrade offensively even over guys like Aurilia and Freel.

3. Gives the Reds a chance to buy Soriano relatively low since the whole squabble is leaving Washington in a bind, and then if he produces as expected the first half, allows them to sell him higher at the trading deadline for prospects/pitching.

4. Keeps Narron from running Milton out there every fifth day.

I'd do it.

RedsManRick
02-24-2006, 02:18 PM
I want no part of Soriano whatsoever. He's Wily Mo Pena with a much larger salary, worse defense, and a bad attitude. I'd rather just pay Milton's full salary and ship him to Washington for a 26 year old catcher in high A who can't hit .200.

TeamSelig
04-23-2007, 06:18 PM
Funny thread, thought I'd revisit it.

KronoRed
04-23-2007, 06:28 PM
I still wouldn't trade Dunn for Soriano.

He strikes out too much :D

Degenerate39
04-23-2007, 06:32 PM
I would only do this if Soriano was a sure bet to resign with the Reds.

REDREAD
04-24-2007, 10:59 AM
Looks like the Nats getting Soriano wasn't one of the stupidest trades ever after all. He put up a pretty good year for them. :)

KronoRed
04-24-2007, 11:49 AM
I would only do this if Soriano was a sure bet to resign with the Reds.

The key to this topic, Soriano is making 17mill this year, who else would have had to go to pay for that?

Chip R
04-24-2007, 12:03 PM
Looks like the Nats getting Soriano wasn't one of the stupidest trades ever after all. He put up a pretty good year for them. :)


Since they didn't get anything for him last year, I think that was pretty dumb.

KronoRed
04-24-2007, 12:13 PM
Since they didn't get anything for him last year, I think that was pretty dumb.

Jimbo got a draft pick that he can use on a 7 tool guy :D

Johnny Footstool
04-24-2007, 12:22 PM
Looks like the Nats getting Soriano wasn't one of the stupidest trades ever after all. He put up a pretty good year for them. :)

Getting Soriano was a shrewd move.

Letting him go to free agency and getting only a draft pick in return was a sad failure.

westofyou
04-24-2007, 12:40 PM
Jimbo got a draft pick that he can use on a 7 tool guy :D

Do tell more.

http://members.cox.net/alphaworm/schneider_One_Day_At_A_Time.JPG

15fan
04-24-2007, 01:13 PM
ADAM DUNN...NOT ONCE BUT 3 different times. Man this guy must have really thought DanO was an idiot.

Well, he did give Eric Milton 3 years & $27 Million.

If that doesn't make you a card-carrying member of the Idiot Association, I don't know what does.

Speaking of idiots, whatever happened to the Idiot Mobile?

REDREAD
04-24-2007, 05:25 PM
Since they didn't get anything for him last year, I think that was pretty dumb.

Was getting Guzman in 1999 a dumb move? After all, he walked and they didn't get anything. What about getting Greg Vaughn? Was that a dumb move?

The point is that everyone said it was dumb to trade for Soriano. He put up a great season. That's entirely different from the decision to trade Soriano for the best offer in July or take a draft pick. Teams grab one year rentals all the time.

REDREAD
04-24-2007, 05:28 PM
Getting Soriano was a shrewd move.

Letting him go to free agency and getting only a draft pick in return was a sad failure.


It all depends on what Bowden was offered for Soriano.. If it was just a couple Brian Reiths, a draft pick was better.

Also, Bowden is able to extract high prices in trades because he occasionally will just sit on the guy and let him walk as opposed to always settling for the best offer. It may have helped him get more for Vidro and Hernandez later.
It's part of the cost of his style.

Also, we don't know if the ownership made a legitimate effort to try to resign Soriano or not..

The point is, that just taking the best offer available isn't necessarily the best move.

Johnny Footstool
04-24-2007, 05:33 PM
It all depends on what Bowden was offered for Soriano.. If it was just a couple Brian Reiths, a draft pick was better.

Also, Bowden is able to extract high prices in trades because he occasionally will just sit on the guy and let him walk as opposed to always settling for the best offer. It may have helped him get more for Vidro and Hernandez later.
It's part of the cost of his style.

Also, we don't know if the ownership made a legitimate effort to try to resign Soriano or not..

The point is, that just taking the best offer available isn't necessarily the best move.

I understand that, but there were plenty of teams looking for big bats at the trade deadline last season, and many of them could well afford to re-sign Soriano. I doubt the best offer he received was on par with a couple of Brian Reiths.

I think it's a safe assumption that Jimbo received offers involving better prospects than he could find in the draft, but he held out for a blockbuster deal that never materialized.

REDREAD
04-25-2007, 10:07 AM
I think it's a safe assumption that Jimbo received offers involving better prospects than he could find in the draft, but he held out for a blockbuster deal that never materialized.


Yes, I'm sure he was holding out for the motherload return and didn't get it.

My point is, the next time he negotiates with those teams, they'll realize that he will walk from the table if he doesn't get what he wants. That's worth something too.

Let's say instead of a handful of Reiths, he was offered a Freel and a Coffey.
That's better than a first round pick (due to the odds of a first round pick making it).. On the other hand, would adding a Freel and Coffey to the Nationals make that much of a difference? I can see him holding out for an impact player..

KronoRed
04-25-2007, 11:26 AM
My point is, the next time he negotiates with those teams, they'll realize that he will walk from the table if he doesn't get what he wants. That's worth something too.

That's worth something to the other GM's as well, they know that if Bowden keeps at that he'll be fired before long :evil:

REDREAD
04-25-2007, 01:17 PM
That's worth something to the other GM's as well, they know that if Bowden keeps at that he'll be fired before long :evil:

I would've probably taken the best offer that was respectable too..

But I wouldn't have had the gall to ask for Kearns and Lopez for Maj and Bray.
I'd be too worried the other GM would die laughing.

He did well in the Hernandez and Vidro trades as well, IMO.

I can understand why people don't like Bowden, but he is good at the trading game when he's not forced to trade someone due to a salary dump.