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Krusty
02-23-2006, 02:01 PM
Things have been alittle slow with the start of spring training but it is never over as far as cooking up those trade ideas for some lively internet chat:

Reds trade Willy Mo Pena to Kansas City for LHP J.P. Howell[/B]

Now some of you expressed interest in Howell before and this would seem like the kind of deal Krivsky would do. Reds would get a young lefthander who could start the season at Louisville for alittle more seasoning (the Royals rushed him through the system last year), and be the first one called when a starter is needed. The Reds would have control over him for the next six years and would be an additional piece to building a solid rotation along with Harang and Claussen. Losing Pena means Dunn would shift to LF while Hatteberg gets playing time at lst base. But with Freel and Denorfia around, expect Dunn to see some first base too.

As for the Royals, it would be hard to part with Howell but if you look at their system, they have no one with the home run potential of Pena. Reggie Sanders is on the downward side of his career and Emil Brown will be hard pressed to repeat last season's performance. Pena would have the opportunity to play either LF or DH on an everyday basis.

Just an idea on a slow news day.

Krusty
02-23-2006, 02:23 PM
Thought I would put some of the Royals' fans responses (yes there are still a few Royals fans out there).

http://mb3.scout.com/fkansascityroyalsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=4977.top ic

deltachi8
02-23-2006, 03:35 PM
Interesting idea Krusty. I have always opposed trading Pena as I see a big upside, however, if the team is ever going to get untracked, one of the thrr (Pena, Kearns or Dunn) has to be dealt. As Kearns is low on trade value and I have no interest in trading Dunn, I would do this deal.

pedro
02-23-2006, 03:44 PM
Krusty, what does J.P. Howell have going for him? I don't know anything about him, but his stats from last year were HORRIBLE.

Is he projected to be a good starting pitcher?

was he good in college?

just wondering.

westofyou
02-23-2006, 04:06 PM
Too much of a soft tosser for this clubs makeup.

Apparently he tops out at 87 and won the Roger Clemens award at UT his Jr. year.

He's a guy who lives on his placement and hopes his curve is on, couple that with limited speed on his fastball and the potential to walk alot of guys and he's alot of what the Reds have already

The Reds need guys to miss some bats.

Doc. Scott
02-23-2006, 04:47 PM
The comparisons to Bo Jackson for Wily Mo were quite apropos.

The difference is that if Kevin Walker tackled Wily Mo, he'd end up getting dragged along for ten yards.

redleg32
02-23-2006, 05:47 PM
I think you need to aim higher. A package centered around Pena sent to the Dodgers for Billingsley and Broxton is what I would want. Aim high and you never know what might happen. The Sporting News says that the Dodgers are looking for a young corner outfielder with power. Just Sayin

Crash Davis
02-23-2006, 05:58 PM
J.P. Howell? Seriously? We already have Dave Williams.

What else? Greinke too, I hope.

I remember when Wily Mo was being traded for Omar Infante on here. This is pretty much on par with that idea.

Hondo
02-23-2006, 07:22 PM
Wily Mo Pena is probably gonna connect 40+ times in 550+ AB's....

Austin Kearns if healthy will probably double last years Homers (18) to 36 at least with 550+ AB's...

Hopefully the Reds will be able to find that Germano or Wilson can pitch 175+ Innings and Dave Williams does the same...Aaron Harang goes 220+ and wins 16, then with enought luck, Milton won't suck so bad and win 10-12 with a sub 5.00ERA...Ya know what, we may have a servicable Rotation...No Cy Young Winners of Course...

Harang 200+innings 15-17 Wins
Claussen 200+ innings 12-14 Wins
Milton 200+ innings 10-12 Wins
Williams 200+ innings 10-12 Wins

Germano If either these guys can throw 150+ innings and contribute even
Wilson 8-10 wins.....With Wilson possibly he can win 11 again...

So it is BAD, but it could get better....How low can ya possibly go unless Milton coughs up 50+ Dingers next year, and I have a feeling he will be A lot better!!!!

Atleast Management didn't put 10 Million into Weaver....Thank Goodness!!!

JaredRoberts.com

VI_RedsFan
02-23-2006, 07:28 PM
I loved this idea until I heard that Howell tops out at 87. That has turned me away from this idea. J.P. sounds like a guy that doesn't have much going for him. I would much rather talk with LA about Pena. Start the conversasion with Pena for Billingsley and/or Broxton. Maybe even talk to Cleveland about CC Sabathia, or call up Jimbo and ask if Patterson could be had for Pena. I now realize that we should stay away from Mr. Howell.

pedro
02-23-2006, 07:30 PM
Wily Mo Pena is probably gonna connect 40+ times in 550+ AB's....

Austin Kearns if healthy will probably double last years Homers (18) to 36 at least with 550+ AB's...

Hopefully the Reds will be able to find that Germano or Wilson can pitch 175+ Innings and Dave Williams does the same...Aaron Harang goes 220+ and wins 16, then with enought luck, Milton won't suck so bad and win 10-12 with a sub 5.00ERA...Ya know what, we may have a servicable Rotation...No Cy Young Winners of Course...

Harang 200+innings 15-17 Wins
Claussen 200+ innings 12-14 Wins
Milton 200+ innings 10-12 Wins
Williams 200+ innings 10-12 Wins

Germano If either these guys can throw 150+ innings and contribute even
Wilson 8-10 wins.....With Wilson possibly he can win 11 again...

So it is BAD, but it could get better....How low can ya possibly go unless Milton coughs up 50+ Dingers next year, and I have a feeling he will be A lot better!!!!

Atleast Management didn't put 10 Million into Weaver....Thank Goodness!!!

JaredRoberts.com


See, this is where projections get us in trouble. You're predicting that the Reds will have 4 pitchers in 2006 pitch 200+ innings.

Do you know how many pitchers on the Reds have thrown 200+ innings in a single season from 1994-2005? Four. Count em.

Hobo
02-23-2006, 07:35 PM
From Rotoworld:

The Nationals plan to send a scout to watch Wily Mo Pena this week, according to MLB.com.
GM Jim Bowden started discussing Pena with the Reds in November or December. The Nationals just don't have much to offer, unless they spin off Alfonso Soriano for pitching first. The Reds shouldn't be looking to trade Pena anyway.
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060223&content_id=1320220&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

KronoRed
02-23-2006, 07:37 PM
Wilson and Milton probably won't combine for 200 innings or 10 wins.

Clemson
02-23-2006, 07:42 PM
milton and wily mo for soriano and a B prospect

Nugget
02-23-2006, 08:02 PM
Krusty a trade that may be able to be pulled off but I agree that of the pitchers named Billingsley and Broxton are ahead of Howell. However, from a tradability point of view I don't think WMP will get both Billingsley and Broxton - maybe one but not both. Hitters are a huge market whereas talented pitchers are not. Yes WMP has power but then when Arizona signs Durazo to a minor league deal you see the relative worth. Especially as WMP is not going to be a gold glover (in any position) probably not even a bronze glove (although he sometimes looks as if he is fielding with one). So in WMP you have a power hitter with no real fielding ability. Your best bets are probably an AL team or a team with good pitching a need for a power hitting and a ready made defensive replacement in the later innings. Not knowing all the pitching prospects but it would seem that the West Coast (especially the Padres, Angels and Dodgers) have the best AAA and high AA pitchers. The Dodgers and the Padres would appear to need more power bats so they would seem to be the ons. However, if we could find a better pitcher on an AL team that would be good too as WMP would be more valuable to them.

Topcat
02-23-2006, 11:41 PM
Coming at it from another angle, If and only if your considering swaping Willy MO, forget the pitcjing angle and just shoot for kids blocked by other organizations. Brandon wood types or the kid blocked at 3b in texas etc. My point is zero in on pressing minor league needs. Pitching is obvious and few teams throw away even relativly decent prospect arms. Catchers and area to consider, so is 3b and shortstops etc. Just one angle to consider is all.

Krusty
02-24-2006, 01:32 AM
As mentioned before my idea trade is Kearns/Mercker to Cleveland for C.C. Sabbathia. If the Tribe was willing to pull the trigger to a Westbrook for Kearns deal, why not see if they would bite on a Sabbathia deal? Mercker could replace Authur Rhodes in the pen as for a lefthanded reliever, and the Reds would still be in good shape with two lefties left in the bullpen.

If you're the Tribe, an outfield of Michaels, Sizemore and Blake just doesn't cut it.

pedro
02-24-2006, 01:37 AM
I liked your original idea of trading WMP better.

Nugget
02-24-2006, 01:38 AM
OK Krusty you made me bite again.

I'd see if they'd take WMP plus one of the guys we just signed to a minor league deal rather than Kearns. Whilst I understand that everyone is tradable I would prefer to see Kearns out there with CC rather than WMP.

The only issue then is that you have four left handers together in the rotation. If you moved Harang to #2 or #3 there would be a better balance.

cincyinco
02-24-2006, 01:39 AM
From Rotoworld:

The Nationals plan to send a scout to watch Wily Mo Pena this week, according to MLB.com.
GM Jim Bowden started discussing Pena with the Reds in November or December. The Nationals just don't have much to offer, unless they spin off Alfonso Soriano for pitching first. The Reds shouldn't be looking to trade Pena anyway.
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060223&content_id=1320220&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Instead of taking Soriano, the Reds should try for Vidro at 2b.. let Soriano stay in DC and play the position he wants.. Vidro and Everts for WMP.

Nugget
02-24-2006, 01:49 AM
Everts is coming off TJ surgery and Vidro really doesn't add anything that the REDS don't already have (ie heaps of 2B even though he would be the best).

If Bowden would take WMP for Hinckley straight up then I would do it.

cincyinco
02-24-2006, 01:56 AM
Everts is coming off TJ surgery and Vidro really doesn't add anything that the REDS don't already have (ie heaps of 2B even though he would be the best).

If Bowden would take WMP for Hinckley straight up then I would do it.

Have to disagree with you there Nugget. And I'm a huge Hinckley fan.

Vidro would be the clear cut starting 2b on this team.. a position which the Reds have a glut of mediocre players. Womack, Aurilla? I'll take Vidro every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Freel? Its debateable.

But Hinckley just had surgury on his SHOULDER this offseason to repair a tear. They held off last year thinking they could rest it. He struggled ALL year last year. Then he opted for surgury this offseason. Shoulder injuries, at least to me, are death for pitchers.. while pitchers seemingly come back from TJ very well these days. Everts came back in what.. 6.. 7 months and held his own? Everts has the higher ceiling, and the "lesser" injury in my eyes.

Now if only Bowden hadn't gone and traded Armando Galarraga to the Rangers...

In case you missed it:


Former top WAS prospect hoping surgery will lead to a career revival :

" ... Mike Hinckley ... after going 1-6 in his final 12 appearances, Hinckley and the Nationals decided it was time to have his shoulder fixed once and for all. He went to see Reds team physician Dr. Timothy Kremchek, who performed an arthroscopic procedure to release the posterior capsule in Hinckley's shoulder ... Hinckley began tossing a ball in November and started throwing in earnest in January. He's eager to put last season behind him, though it is yet to be determined where he will begin 2006. If he's truly healthy, Double-A Harrisburg, where he was 5-2 with a 2.87 ERA in 16 starts in 2004, is a likely starting point. "Anyone can have ups and downs through any season, but last year was my only down year," Hinckley said. "That's going to happen. I've had more dream seasons than ones when I've been on that rollercoaster. They (the Nationals) had a lot of expectations of me last year, but I had a lot of expectations, too. Things just didn't fall into place. "But my arm feels much better now. There are times when I still want to baby it, but people have said that the doctor wouldn't have sealed it up if he hadn't taken care of everything." (MiLB.com)

Nugget
02-24-2006, 02:00 AM
Didn't see Hinckley's surgery but I don't know if the REDS should be taking a punt on guys who have come off surgery. Whilst I agree that Vidro is the best of all the 2B that the REDS already have I think they are servicable enough for the REDS not to trade for Vidro. Maybe Everts and Hinckley - two guys with surgery and Kremechek might be able to make one super pitcher.

cincyinco
02-24-2006, 03:22 AM
Didn't see Hinckley's surgery but I don't know if the REDS should be taking a punt on guys who have come off surgery. Whilst I agree that Vidro is the best of all the 2B that the REDS already have I think they are servicable enough for the REDS not to trade for Vidro. Maybe Everts and Hinckley - two guys with surgery and Kremechek might be able to make one super pitcher.

Yeah, not sure its great to target either guy.. but put it like this..

Out of 2b to target, i'd rather target Vidro over Soriano.. and of course, I'd want to target SOME kind of pitching.. Everts is about all they have.. heh. I would look for another trade partner, but if I'm considering the Nats.. I would rather them take Vidro/Pitcher vs. Soriano..