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View Full Version : UC vs. Villinova update



paintmered
02-24-2006, 12:10 AM
Game tied 72-72 with less than 1 minute left.

Go Cats!!

Reds4Life
02-24-2006, 12:20 AM
No defense by McGowan at all on the inbound pass cost UC the game, un-friggin-believeable.

paintmered
02-24-2006, 12:20 AM
74-72 Final.

:(

MWM
02-24-2006, 12:32 AM
I didn't agree with Majerus on the charge. I didn't think it was an offensive foul. I thought it was questionable whether or not he was there first and the replay showed he turned leaning his left side forward.

Reds4Life
02-24-2006, 12:38 AM
I didn't agree with Majerus on the charge. I didn't think it was an offensive foul. I thought it was questionable whether or not he was there first and the replay showed he turned leaning his left side forward.

It was close, and in a close game like that it's usually a non-call. Under those circumstances (tied, under one minute) unless it's a blatent foul you should just let them play.

TeamBoone
02-24-2006, 01:07 AM
OMG, what a game!

But a heartbreaking loss... it would have been HUGE if they could have pulled it off at the end.

I love this team. They play with such heart.

And Hicks... man ya gotta love the guy. He's all broken and still toughs it out... and effectively too.

Might have ended up differently had White not fouled out.

I was surprised to hear them say UC had the 7th toughest schedule.

MWM
02-24-2006, 01:09 AM
A win there and UC is in the tournament. As it stands now, I think they're out.

Tood bad, with a healthy Kirkland, I think they win 22-23 games this year.

Reds4Life
02-24-2006, 01:20 AM
A win there and UC is in the tournament. As it stands now, I think they're out.

Tood bad, with a healthy Kirkland, I think they win 22-23 games this year.

They aren't out, if they win one game of the last 2 they are in. Even though tonight was a loss the fact we gave Nova everything they could handle could actually help our NCAA resume.

Newport Red
02-24-2006, 01:24 AM
Welcome to th era of moral victories.

CrackerJack
02-24-2006, 02:34 PM
I didn't agree with Majerus on the charge. I didn't think it was an offensive foul. I thought it was questionable whether or not he was there first and the replay showed he turned leaning his left side forward.

Watching the replay it absolutely was a charge IMO - if Downey had jumped straight up in the air versus going forward into the defender when shooting - it would've been different. But he was out of control and didn't pull up, instead just plowed right into the guy. I don't know why anyone would question that, even the fans didn't.

Poor, bonheaded mistakes like that in the last seconds (Downey falling down, McGowan losing his man/assignment, and then Downey's charge and Hicks not dishing it off to Jihad on the final shot) doomed them.

Great game otherwise, just hate to see it end as a result of boneheaded mistakes. AK's team is making a habit of blowing last second chances this year. Well, at least that's 2 of them I can recall off the top of my head.

Matt700wlw
02-24-2006, 03:38 PM
Heart. They have it. They define it.

What a game, sooooo close!

Beat Seton Hall or WV and they're in. They will get in.

Oh yeah, Nancy..give Andy the contract he deserves.

Reds4Life
02-24-2006, 05:33 PM
Heart. They have it. They define it.

What a game, sooooo close!

Beat Seton Hall or WV and they're in. They will get in.

Oh yeah, Nancy..give Andy the contract he deserves.

I think they beat both Seton Hall and WVU. WVU hasn't been looking too good as of late and if they aren't hitting 3's they are very beatable, they can't rebound either.

As for Kennedy, I'm conflicted. This program needs a great recruiter over the next few years more than it needs a great game coach, and sadly that's a huge question mark with Andy. If it works out, great, but if it doesn't the program will be a Big East doormat and it's hard to recover from something like that. If we can get a big name coach to come in here I think we gotta let Kennedy go, but if they plan on going the mid-major route than just hire Kennedy instead.

Matt700wlw
02-24-2006, 05:45 PM
Wasn't Andy the guy who recruited most of these guys under Huggs?

Chip R
02-24-2006, 06:04 PM
As for Kennedy, I'm conflicted. This program needs a great recruiter over the next few years more than it needs a great game coach, and sadly that's a huge question mark with Andy. If it works out, great, but if it doesn't the program will be a Big East doormat and it's hard to recover from something like that. If we can get a big name coach to come in here I think we gotta let Kennedy go, but if they plan on going the mid-major route than just hire Kennedy instead.

I don't know how much recruiting Kennedy has done since he's been at UC. I'm sure Huggins did a lot of it himself but a head coach can't do all the recruiting. Before all this stuff went down it looked like UC had a pretty good class coming in. How much of that was Kennedy's doing is anyone's guess. But UC has advantages that it didn't have during the Huggins era. They are in the Big East conference and they have a lot more games on national TV. Pretty much every year they are guaranteed to play at least a game in Madison Square Garden. While I haven't seen a lot of UC games this year I believe they run a bit more of an up-tempo style. That may bring in more kids who wouldn't have wanted to play under the style offense Huggins ran.

They are going to have some problems that would have occured even if everything was status quo. This isn't Conference USA any more. Instead of playing Tulane and Houston they are playing Georgetown and Connecticut. They aren't going to dominate like they did. They will be recruiting against those schools as well. There may be some years they are in the upper rung of the Big East but it isn't likely it's going to happen every year like in Conference USA.

Even getting a "big name" coach there may not be the solution. He may stay a few years and then go off to greener pastures like a bigger college gig or the NBA. Plus Zimpher may not want to hire a "big name" so he doesn't have that control over the program that Huggins did.

Reds4Life
02-24-2006, 06:43 PM
I don't know how much recruiting Kennedy has done since he's been at UC. I'm sure Huggins did a lot of it himself but a head coach can't do all the recruiting. Before all this stuff went down it looked like UC had a pretty good class coming in. How much of that was Kennedy's doing is anyone's guess. But UC has advantages that it didn't have during the Huggins era. They are in the Big East conference and they have a lot more games on national TV. Pretty much every year they are guaranteed to play at least a game in Madison Square Garden. While I haven't seen a lot of UC games this year I believe they run a bit more of an up-tempo style. That may bring in more kids who wouldn't have wanted to play under the style offense Huggins ran.

They are going to have some problems that would have occured even if everything was status quo. This isn't Conference USA any more. Instead of playing Tulane and Houston they are playing Georgetown and Connecticut. They aren't going to dominate like they did. They will be recruiting against those schools as well. There may be some years they are in the upper rung of the Big East but it isn't likely it's going to happen every year like in Conference USA.

Even getting a "big name" coach there may not be the solution. He may stay a few years and then go off to greener pastures like a bigger college gig or the NBA. Plus Zimpher may not want to hire a "big name" so he doesn't have that control over the program that Huggins did.

You are right the Big East does bring it's advantages, it also brings some disadvantages. Like a guy with 1 year under his belt recruiting against Pitino, Calhoun, etc with national championships and final fours within the last few years. There is no margin for error in this league, if UC doesn't establish itself the next few years they will be bottom feeders and that is nearly impossible to recover from when you have 16 teams competing against you.


Matt,

Kennedy helped recruit them, but it's a lot easier to convince someone when you can use the name of a future hall of fame coach instead of using your own.

TeamBoone
02-24-2006, 07:52 PM
Kennedy helped recruit them, but it's a lot easier to convince someone when you can use the name of a future hall of fame coach instead of using your own.

I was always under the impression that Bob Huggins recruited the majority of his players himself. He was gone on recruiting trips all the time during the offseason.

That said, I'm sure Andy's gotten a lot of recruiting experience under his belt as I don't think Huggins did any of his recruiting in a vacuum.

Reds4Life
02-24-2006, 07:56 PM
I was always under the impression that Bob Huggins recruited the majority of his players himself. He was gone on recruiting trips all the time during the offseason.

I'm sure Andy's gotten a lot of recruiting experience under his belt as I don't think Huggins did any of his recruiting in a vacuum.

Huggins scouted a lot of games, things like that. Andy knows what's involved in recruiting kids, he wasn't recruiting for himself, big difference. If Kennedy's hired keeping Corie Blount is going to be key IMO, it will really be a big help to have a 11 year NBA vet to go with you on the trail.

Newport Red
02-24-2006, 08:05 PM
Even getting a "big name" coach there may not be the solution. He may stay a few years and then go off to greener pastures like a bigger college gig or the NBA. Plus Zimpher may not want to hire a "big name" so he doesn't have that control over the program that Huggins did.

Conversely, a big name coach won't want to coach in a program under Zimpher's control. The only big name coach that would consider UC is one making his last curtain call.

Chip R
02-25-2006, 03:21 PM
One thing to remember about getting a "big name" coach is that Bob Huggins came from Akron and built the UC program to an extremely high level. Akron is about as mid-major as you can get.

Reds4Life
02-25-2006, 03:31 PM
One thing to remember about getting a "big name" coach is that Bob Huggins came from Akron and built the UC program to an extremely high level. Akron is about as mid-major as you can get.

Cincinnati wasn't a top 10 all time program when he came here either, and didn't play in the best basketball conference in the country.

Chip R
02-25-2006, 09:46 PM
Cincinnati wasn't a top 10 all time program when he came here either, and didn't play in the best basketball conference in the country.
So UC's success was because they didn't play in a strong conference rather than because of Huggins' coaching and recruiting skills?

Anybody is going to have a tough time coaching UC primarily because they are in the Big East. Coach K would have difficulty. Look at Pitino. He's having problems this year. I'm not saying hiring a coach from a mid-major school should happen, all I'm saying is that coach could be the next Bob Huggins or Coach K - who came directly from Army which it would be charitable at best to call a mid major. Ohio St. seems rather happy with Thad Matta who came from Butler after a stopover at Xavier. Both universities are mid major programs and the Big 10 is one of the top 2-3 conferences in the country.

Reds4Life
02-25-2006, 09:56 PM
So UC's success was because they didn't play in a strong conference rather than because of Huggins' coaching and recruiting skills?

Anybody is going to have a tough time coaching UC primarily because they are in the Big East. Coach K would have difficulty. Look at Pitino. He's having problems this year. I'm not saying hiring a coach from a mid-major school should happen, all I'm saying is that coach could be the next Bob Huggins or Coach K - who came directly from Army which it would be charitable at best to call a mid major. Ohio St. seems rather happy with Thad Matta who came from Butler after a stopover at Xavier. Both universities are mid major programs and the Big 10 is one of the top 2-3 conferences in the country.

UC went mid-major then because they didn't have a choice, UC was not a national program and had just gone through the Yates years and had zero chance of landing a high profile coach. The current situation isn't even in the same ballpark. The biggest barrier to getting a high profile guy, with no question marks on recruiting, to take this job is going to be Nancy Zimpher. I don't think this program can afford to hire a "could be", we don't need to take that chance anymore, and honestly we don't have to. This program is now at the point where it can hire a sure thing, Bob Huggins did that for us.

Bob Huggins is the reason we are in the Big East (the haters will love me saying that!), UC basketball was nothing when here came here. The fact there hasn't been a Huggins appreciation night this season, or something to honor all he did for this program, is disgusting to me.

Coach K seems to do just fine at Duke, he'd do just fine in the Big East too. Having 14 final fours on your resume doesn't hurt. ;)

Chip R
02-25-2006, 10:37 PM
I know UC is in a position where it could get a name coach. Just don't be terribly disappointed if they don't. A name coach could fail just as easy as an unknown coach could.

I do agree that UC has not treated Bob Huggins well. The ascent of the basketball program under his tenure is the main reason they are in the Big East conference right now. Perhaps one of these days when there is a new administration, they can bring him back to receive the thanks he so richly deserves. You know what they say, time heals all wounds.

Reds4Life
02-25-2006, 10:50 PM
I know UC is in a position where it could get a name coach. Just don't be terribly disappointed if they don't. A name coach could fail just as easy as an unknown coach could.

I do agree that UC has not treated Bob Huggins well. The ascent of the basketball program under his tenure is the main reason they are in the Big East conference right now. Perhaps one of these days when there is a new administration, they can bring him back to receive the thanks he so richly deserves. You know what they say, time heals all wounds.

Oh I won't be disappointed, I don't expect this administration to do anything that makes much sense. In fact I think they will use one of the Reds old tricks, throw out some big names and maybe even interview one (Prosser, Montgomery, Paul Hewitt has been mentioned) and then hire the cheapest guy available and claim you couldn't afford the others. The current situation has worked out perfectly for Nancy & Co, Kennedy is the fan favorite and he's also the cheapest.

The question is will they put aside the Huggins connection for Kennedy? If they do they should allow Mick Cronin to interview as well, his resume as a UC assistant and recruiter is more impressive than Kennedy's, plus he's a UC grad. Line up all the options and I'm sure the worst one will happen, this program just can't seem to catch a break.

TeamBoone
02-25-2006, 10:52 PM
The fact there hasn't been a Huggins appreciation night this season, or something to honor all he did for this program, is disgusting to me.

I'm sure that's not been allowed to happen.

I'm wondering if he's even allowed on campus as the only game he's been seen at so far was downtown in the colliseum (or whatever it's called now).

Reds4Life
02-25-2006, 10:57 PM
I'm sure that's not been allowed to happen.

I'm wondering if he's even allowed on campus as the only game he's been seen at so far was downtown in the colliseum (or whatever it's called now).

It will never happen as long as Nancy Zimpher is at UC, and that is very sad. It's part of the reason many UC fans are still bitter and angry, they haven't had the chance to say goodbye in an official way.

I doubt Huggs has been back on campus, if he had that would have been all over TV. Bob did say in several interviews that he's seen every game this year though, he was at the crosstown shootout at the Cintas Center, was in Pittsburg a couple weeks ago for the game, etc. I think he's going to be at Madison Square Garden for the Big East tourney as well, if UC makes the NCAA's I'm sure he'll show up.

cincinnati chili
02-25-2006, 11:27 PM
It will never happen as long as Nancy Zimpher is at UC,



I've said this before, but I'll say it again.

I heard from a reliable source that UC trustees UNANIMOUSLY supported Zimpher's call for Huggins' ouster.

In other words... She's not alone in her opinion that Hugs had a net-negative effect on the UC brand. And more direct to your point, she's not the only one you'd have to convince in order to see UC do some sort of salute to Huggins.

Gainesville Red
02-27-2006, 01:17 AM
Little off subject, How has James White been? I haven't really kept up since he left Florida.

Reds4Life
02-27-2006, 01:22 AM
I've said this before, but I'll say it again.

I heard from a reliable source that UC trustees UNANIMOUSLY supported Zimpher's call for Huggins' ouster.

In other words... She's not alone in her opinion that Hugs had a net-negative effect on the UC brand. And more direct to your point, she's not the only one you'd have to convince in order to see UC do some sort of salute to Huggins.

The BOT doesn't run the day to day operations of the University, Nancy does. If she says it's ok then it will happen, the BOT members are spineless (if they supported the move they've left Zimp twisting in the wind for it) and they wouldn't have a pair big enough to veto a Huggins appreciation night. If the public ever found out about it needless to say it wouldn't be pretty.