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flyer85
02-24-2006, 11:11 AM
of the moves of each team.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/offseason-rankings-bottom-third/


30. Cincinnati Reds

Last year, the New York Yankees made the absolutely stupid decision to give up $2 million dollars a year for two years of service from Tony Womack. He showed them just how stupid they were by hitting .249/.276/.280 in 329 at-bats for an abysmal OPS+ of 47. Good thing for the Yankees they have a big payroll and can absorb a lost $2 million, because surely nobody would want to take Womack off their hands.

Well, maybe not so surely. The Reds decided to one-up the Yankees by not only agreeing to give Womack his $2 million, but also giving the Yankees two players (Kevin Howard and Ben Himes) for the pleasure of doing so. The fact that neither Howard nor Himes is anything to write home about is unimportant. Smart teams wouldn't want Womack even if he paid them a million bucks to take up a spot on the roster. Giving up money and players (however uninteresting) for his services is inexcusable.

The other trade the Reds made was very perplexing, since we've heard for years about how important Sean Casey is to them and how reluctant they are to trade him. When they finally do decide to trade him (admittedly after a down year), all they can get is Dave Williams? They really need a 27-year-old who has only pitched 83 innings in the majors, with 53 strikeouts and 35 walks, that badly?

Bringing back Rich Aurilia for only $1.3 million isn't terrible because he was solid for them last year. And giving $700,000 to Scott Hatteberg isn't going to matter much in the grand scheme of things (although that money is just as wasted as the money spent on Womack). And signing Adam Dunn to a two-year deal with an option for a third is smart.

But overall, the Reds didn't do enough to address their big need (pitching), and some of the acquisitions they made were just so strange that you can't help but wonder what the Reds were thinking this winter. I guess it probably didn't help things that the ownership and front office was in flux, but that doesn't make it any easier for Cincinnati fans to accept what happened.

Reds get to go first!!:help:

Redsfaithful
02-24-2006, 11:28 AM
They really need a 27-year-old who has only pitched 83 innings in the majors, with 53 strikeouts and 35 walks, that badly?

Who are they talking about? They're apparently confused as to who Dave Williams is exactly.

M2
02-24-2006, 11:30 AM
While the Reds had themselves a poor offseason I contend the Cubs just had a stinker for the ages.

Danny Serafini
02-24-2006, 11:32 AM
It is a little difficult to take their criticism seriously when they can't even get the players straight.

rdiersin
02-24-2006, 11:33 AM
While the Reds had themselves a poor offseason I contend the Cubs just had a stinker for the ages.

I was thinking the same thing, and they aren't even in their bottom 1/3. :confused:

flyer85
02-24-2006, 11:35 AM
While the Reds had themselves a poor offseason I contend the Cubs just had a stinker for the ages.I would agree. Perez and Jones signings, trading for Pierre to play in a really SMALL CF in Wrigley.

However, no offseason deal was more inexplicable than the Reds taking on $1M and the worst position player in all of baseball. Womack is truly subtraction by addition. I still believe he will get his 400ABs with the Reds. I haven't seen anything to make me believe that Krivsky is smart enough to cut him.

RedsBaron
02-24-2006, 11:41 AM
I thought that the Reds had a great offseason. They got rid of Lindner and DanO.

flyer85
02-24-2006, 11:49 AM
I thought that the Reds had a great offseason. They got rid of Lindner and DanO.I agree.

However, outside of the Dunn contract I haven't seen even the slightest indication that Krivsky should be hanging a "Genius at Work" sign outside his door. The signing of Hatteberg and White have me skeptical. Until I see the ultimate no-brainer move of unloading Womack I refuse to even pour the Kool-Aid, much less drink it.

KronoRed
02-24-2006, 01:08 PM
Acquiring the worst player in the Majors and publicly saying he's in the running to start for you does give you a lead over everyone else.

RedsManRick
02-24-2006, 01:13 PM
Looks like somebody point out the mistake to Mr. Jacobs...



The other trade the Reds made was very perplexing, since we've heard for years about how important Sean Casey is to them and how reluctant they are to trade him. When they finally do decide to trade him (admittedly after a down year), all they can get is Dave Williams? They really need a 27-year-old who has 211 strikeouts and 140 walks in 335 innings that badly?

Johnny Footstool
02-24-2006, 01:38 PM
Regardless of the mistake Jacobs made in quoting the stats, the fact remains that Dave Williams projects to be no better than a back-of-the-rotation journeyman. League average at best.

flyer85
02-24-2006, 01:42 PM
Regardless of the mistake Jacobs made in quoting the stats, the fact remains that Dave Williams projects to be no better than a back-of-the-rotation journeyman. League average at best.Below average with little upside. If he pitches decent the first half of the season a smart GM would be looking to trade him in the right deal.

max venable
02-24-2006, 04:58 PM
I thought that the Reds had a great offseason. They got rid of Lindner and DanO.
No kidding! Obviously they did not take that into consideration. :rolleyes:

And I think Dave Williams (who, by the way, has pitched 334 ML innings) has a chance to be a very good pitcher. You all may think I'm crazy but I really think the guy can be very good for us.

KronoRed
02-24-2006, 05:24 PM
He can be better then Milton ;)

TRF
02-24-2006, 05:41 PM
No kidding! Obviously they did not take that into consideration. :rolleyes:

And I think Dave Williams (who, by the way, has pitched 334 ML innings) has a chance to be a very good pitcher. You all may think I'm crazy but I really think the guy can be very good for us.

must be February. :mooner:

Johnny Footstool
02-24-2006, 05:55 PM
And I think Dave Williams (who, by the way, has pitched 334 ML innings) has a chance to be a very good pitcher. You all may think I'm crazy but I really think the guy can be very good for us.

Why? Just a hunch?

Falls City Beer
02-24-2006, 08:24 PM
The Reds took a monumentally inept squad and sat on their hands. To quote Bob Boone: "That's some special work."

Cubs? Reds? Tomato, tomahto. At least the Cubs have a couple of MLB pitchers.

max venable
02-24-2006, 09:00 PM
Why? Just a hunch?
Couple of things...

1. Remember what LaRussa said? Cardinals manager Tony La Russa is especially high on Williams, calling him one of the NL's best left-handed starters last season...

2. He's finally healthy (shoulder surgery in 2002). And I think he's just finding his game. He's 27, moving into his prime and has some good ML experience now.

3. Even if he repeats his 4.41 ERA from last year...with the runs the Reds should score for him...he could win some games.

4. And, yes, he is better than Milton :)

Call me crazy...but let's check back 6 months from now...

IslandRed
02-24-2006, 09:44 PM
Call me crazy...but let's check back 6 months from now...

Well, you're probably crazy, but we're going to have to watch him pitch so it's fine with me if he turns out to be decent. Reds pitching is just something where we're conditioned to expect the worst.

KronoRed
02-24-2006, 10:25 PM
You're crazy..but it's a nice crazy to have this time of year ;)

max venable
02-24-2006, 10:29 PM
You're crazy..but it's a nice crazy to have this time of year ;)
What? He's got no shot at being good? Where's the optimism in the room?

M2
02-25-2006, 12:06 AM
What? He's got no shot at being good? Where's the optimism in the room?

Affixed to Claussen, Wagner and Coffey.

max venable
02-25-2006, 10:43 AM
Affixed to Claussen, Wagner and Coffey.
Well, okay...as long as there is optimism. ;)

OldXOhio
02-25-2006, 12:07 PM
League average at best.

Which is what they gave up in Casey.

KronoRed
02-25-2006, 01:10 PM
Which is what they gave up in Casey.
Above avg hug loss though.