PDA

View Full Version : Kenny Williams rips Frank Thomas a new one



cincinnati chili
02-26-2006, 10:06 PM
How in the World did this group win a World Series? Even if everything he says about Thomas is true, Williams is just making himself look like a scrub. He's a GM, not a talk radio shock jock.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2345972

I guess pitching talent trumps the shortcomings of leadership.

WMR
02-27-2006, 12:02 AM
Manager Ozzie Guillen, a former teammate of Thomas', didn't want to get involved.

"I won't put my nose in something above me," Guillen said. "He never mentioned my name and if you don't mention my name, I try to stay away from every part of the conversation."


Hahahahahaha, that's rich coming from Ozzie.

pedro
02-27-2006, 01:12 AM
Classy.

Jpup
02-27-2006, 03:18 AM
Kenny Williams, terrible GM that got lucky. my 2 cents.

cincinnati chili
02-27-2006, 06:15 AM
Kenny Williams, terrible GM that got lucky. my 2 cents.

2 cents well spent, IMO.

Although, in fairness, if the A's ever win a world series, the anti-Moneyball crowd will probably say that Billy Beane got lucky.

traderumor
02-27-2006, 06:52 AM
Training received at the Leatherpants Academy

RedFanAlways1966
02-27-2006, 07:55 AM
"We don't miss his attitude. We don't miss the whining. We don't miss it. Good riddance. See you later," he said.

This is the Frank Thomas that I have seen and heard over the last few years. Complaining, griping, whining, etc. It never bothers me when a GM tells it like it is. I don't care how great of a player the man was in the past for a team. That does not give him the right to complain like an immature tennager about that team. Esp. when his health has been on the downward swing for a few years (reminds me of Sammy Sosa).

Ken Williams did not start this battle of words, Frank Thomas did. Did Ken Williams handle it in the "proper-GM" fashion? Probably not. But has Frank Thomas handled the situation like a man? Definitely not.

KearnsyEars
02-27-2006, 08:07 AM
I side with big Frank. Easy to trash the guy now that he's out of his prime. Kenny Williams shows little respect IMO.

Raisor
02-27-2006, 08:15 AM
I just saw the clip on ESPN. Now, I don't care if Williams is "right" or "wrong", I just enjoyed the spectical of it.

I LOVE watching sports guys bust a nutty.

flyer85
02-27-2006, 08:39 AM
2 cents well spent, IMO.

Although, in fairness, if the A's ever win a world series, the anti-Moneyball crowd will probably say that Billy Beane got lucky.at least Beane has guided the A's to a boatload of winning records and numerous playoff appearances. In the playoffs the luck of being hot at the right time is a big factor when there isn't a dominant team(which was the Yanks in the late 90s early 00s).

Williams hasn't seen many winning records or playoff appearances(I'm too lazy to go count), he just had a season where the stars aligned for his club(hot team and healthy pitching), a lot like the 90 Reds.

KearnsyEars
02-27-2006, 08:41 AM
Ya I agree. The 2005 white sox were special in the fact they got hot at the right time and about 5 other teams that were better in my opinion slumped at the right time for them to win, (Including the Indians who I think were better than them last year but just faded in the last week of the season).

They are lucky that the Cardinals and Stros both slumped in October or the Championship would have been one of those teams.

deltachi8
02-27-2006, 09:14 AM
Big Frank has always been a first class weiner so I got a kick out of it. However, I think Williams was probably best served by ignoring it.

Johnny Footstool
02-27-2006, 09:22 AM
I guess pitching talent trumps the shortcomings of leadership.

Leadership is overrated, just like "team chemistry."

LincolnparkRed
02-27-2006, 09:48 AM
I am glad that Williams ripped Frank, he has done nothing but whine and complain since 2000. First he wasn't getting paid enough then the injury bug took hold. I still recall David Wells calling him out in '01/'02?? about being a wuss then they find out he tore a bunch of ligaments in his arm. He has done nothing but whine since he left and really is burning bridges with the few fans he has left. Maybe he and Sammy can one day sit down together and talk about how Chicago has disrespected him. But I say call a spade a spade and a basket case a basket case.

flyer85
02-27-2006, 10:17 AM
I am glad that Williams ripped Frank, he has done nothing but whine and complain since 2000I don't think anyone is defending Thomas or his comments. It makes the GM look small to get into a verbal battle with a player after the player is gone. Guess what Ken, you won, Frank is gone and you're still there. It would have been a better move to take the high road and just ignore Thomas.

Heath
02-27-2006, 10:18 AM
Ya I agree. The 2005 white sox were special in the fact they got hot at the right time and about 5 other teams that were better in my opinion slumped at the right time for them to win, (Including the Indians who I think were better than them last year but just faded in the last week of the season).

They are lucky that the Cardinals and Stros both slumped in October or the Championship would have been one of those teams.

One could argue that our 1990 Reds were in the same boat as the 2005 ChiSox.

westofyou
02-27-2006, 10:23 AM
Imagine if the Reds GM (or Allen) had talked about Larkin this way, imagine if Larkin's constant comments about a losing team and the situation was met with this type reply to one of the best players in franchise history.

Then imagine it's on the heels of the manager calling out another teams player about something that isn't any of his business.

Then imagine that it's coming from the same place that brought you Reinsdorf, the type of owner that squeezed out the first wave of owners in the early 80's.

Frank might not be "classy" but he's the ballplayer and the other guys are the bosses.

That IMO is classless.

RedsManRick
02-27-2006, 10:27 AM
I think the Sox are trying to acrue as much bad karma as possible so that when the injuries set in they have something to blame.

deltachi8
02-27-2006, 11:40 AM
I didnt care much for Larkin's antics either.

KronoRed
02-27-2006, 11:54 AM
Don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.

Becomes a much bigger story now thanks to Williams.

KearnsyEars
02-27-2006, 01:25 PM
Don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.

Becomes a much bigger story now thanks to Williams.


agree 100%

pedro
02-27-2006, 01:34 PM
Frank may have whined but I think Williams comments were a little over the top.

LincolnparkRed
02-27-2006, 03:59 PM
Frank may have whined but I think Williams comments were a little over the top.

I still disagree. At some point you cannot sit there and take crap from someone you were all too happy to get rid off. Maybe he should have said no comment and moved on but I think he also put a warning shot out to Frank as well. At some point toward the beginning of his rant Kenny said they had covered up things that Frank had done and if say one of the reporters wanted to sniff around they could easily find some dirt. I think this was Kenny's way to say hey Frank you better shut up or alot of dirt is suddenly going to be out in public. Hopefully this will be the end but all Frank can do is damage what little goodwill he had with most of the fans here in Chicago

lollipopcurve
02-27-2006, 04:04 PM
Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen still have some of that player's mentality. I don't have a problem with that, especially compared to the button-down corporate pose a lot of these guys strike.

RedFanAlways1966
02-27-2006, 04:16 PM
At some point toward the beginning of his rant Kenny said they had covered up things that Frank had done and if say one of the reporters wanted to sniff around they could easily find some dirt. I think this was Kenny's way to say hey Frank you better shut up or alot of dirt is suddenly going to be out in public.

Hmmmmm... didn't Frank play a year or two of D-I football? Anyone who has known a D-I football player that played more than 10 years ago (like Frank) might be able to tell you how readily available steroids were to these guys. I went to a D-I school that had a very-limited-in-talent football team. Two good friends played on those teams and told me the juice was only a single request from any coach away from being in their locker. And this was a 2-bit D-I program.

Don't know. But just sayin'...

Cyclone792
02-27-2006, 04:33 PM
Ozzie!

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/4925954_36_2.jpg

pedro
02-27-2006, 04:44 PM
Not to defend Frank but I just don't like Kenny Williams or Ozzie Guillen for that matter. Maybe they all ought to STFU.

Plus I don't recall Frank doing any name calling as Williams did.

flyer85
02-27-2006, 05:01 PM
Plus I don't recall Frank doing any name calling as Williams did.in the end it just make the GM look like what he is complaining about. Kenny won, he is still in Chicago and Frank is in Oakland. What does he hope to gain by responding and trashing Frank in the press, even if he is right? We already know that a lot of baseball players are spoiled prima donnas, all Kenny Williams did was make himself look like one as well.

captainmorgan07
02-27-2006, 06:03 PM
im fine with wat kenny williams said if frank thomas is gonna fire bombs back at his club he has the right to speak his mind and he's right frank was a complainer who was often hurt and a bad clubhouse guy in his career

RFS62
02-27-2006, 06:08 PM
Kenny is the only guy in Chicago who can make Ozzie look sensible and restrained.

princeton
02-27-2006, 06:18 PM
don't hate him for being a hedgehog. Hedgehogs win.

I've been clamoring for a hedgehog since the internet opened. One lousy, stinkin' hedgehog.

Instead, those sly foxes went out and built us a bandbox.

GriffeyFan
02-27-2006, 08:29 PM
I don't see why some are defending Thomas. From all I've heard and read, he's been a primadonna jerk pretty much since coming to the bigs. I love it when these guys get called out. Thomas kept getting little barbs at the White Sox through the media and they finally had enough.

Did Kenny go a little too far? Maybe. But I'm glad he said what he said and I don't like the White Sox at all.

cincinnati chili
02-27-2006, 10:20 PM
I've heard he's a jerk too (mostly from Ozzie and K. Williams, but let's assume it's true for the sake of argument).

Still, I read Thomas' comments in the Daily Southtown, and they in no way justify Kenny bringing up some of the stuff he brought up.

In particular, I think it's classless to bring up that Reinsdorf lent Thomas money while he went through a divorce. That's a private matter, and a too low a blow.

Betterread
02-27-2006, 10:53 PM
don't hate him for being a hedgehog. Hedgehogs win.

I've been clamoring for a hedgehog since the internet opened. One lousy, stinkin' hedgehog.

Instead, those sly foxes went out and built us a bandbox.

I apologize for this major digression, but my favorite fox/hedgehog comparison deployed J. Brahms as the fox and Tchaikovsky as the hedgehog. Since I prefer Brahms compositions, I always liked the fox in this comparison.

KronoRed
02-27-2006, 11:19 PM
In particular, I think it's classless to bring up that Reinsdorf lent Thomas money while he went through a divorce. That's a private matter, and a too low a blow.
Yeah exactly, what's the point? looks like a jackass to bring stuff like that to light.

pedro
02-27-2006, 11:20 PM
don't hate him for being a hedgehog. Hedgehogs win.

I've been clamoring for a hedgehog since the internet opened. One lousy, stinkin' hedgehog.

Instead, those sly foxes went out and built us a bandbox.

I have no idea what you are talking about. That may say more about me than it does about you but still.....

princeton
02-28-2006, 10:58 AM
I have no idea what you are talking about. That may say more about me than it does about you but still.....

http://www.kheper.net/topics/typology/Fox_and_Hedgehog.html

now, if a hedgehog takes a complex system and greatly simplifies it, while a fox does many things pretty well... does that make DanO roadkill?

M2
02-28-2006, 11:09 AM
http://www.kheper.net/topics/typology/Fox_and_Hedgehog.html

now, if a hedgehog takes a complex system and greatly simplifies it, while a fox does many things pretty well... does that make DanO roadkill?

Specifically possum roadkill.

Johnny Footstool
02-28-2006, 12:18 PM
DanO was a hedgehog whose "simple solutions" were simply wrong. He had the drive; unfortunately, it was over a cliff.

westofyou
02-28-2006, 12:21 PM
I love it when these guys get called out.

Yep, nothing classier than the guys doing the hiring ripping publically on the guys they hire.

Where I come from that's considered beneath the roles that management is supposed to portray.

Is it true?

Perhaps, but if it was my organization I would prefer that managment try and show a little class towards the players.

BTW as for the earlier steroids accusation floated out there... what a laugh, Frank has been HUGE forever and Frank Thomas killed the ball his whole career, mostly because he knew the strikezone. If Frank was on steroids you'd think he wouldn't have broken down so quick. It does a great disservice to the game to throw that bone at every departing player in the game and in my opinion and is nothing but a poor attempt at innuendo.

M2
02-28-2006, 12:26 PM
DanO was a hedgehog whose "simple solutions" were simply wrong. He had the drive; unfortunately, it was over a cliff.

So he was a lemming?

Chip R
02-28-2006, 12:27 PM
Yep, nothing classier than the guys doing the hiring ripping publically on the guys they hire.

Where I come from that's considered beneath the roles that management is supposed to portray.


Yeah, someone has to be the adult here. That should have been Kenny.

Cyclone792
02-28-2006, 12:30 PM
BTW as for the earlier steroids accusation floated out there... what a laugh, Frank has been HUGE forever and Frank Thomas killed the ball his whole career, mostly because he knew the strikezone. If Frank was on steroids you'd think he wouldn't have broken down so quick. It does a great disservice to the game to throw that bone at every departing player in the game and in my opinion and is nothing but a poor attempt at innuendo.

^^^^^

Bingo. I can say, without hesitation, that woy definitely gets it.

RedFanAlways1966
02-28-2006, 12:41 PM
BTW as for the earlier steroids accusation floated out there... what a laugh, Frank has been HUGE forever and Frank Thomas killed the ball his whole career, mostly because he knew the strikezone. If Frank was on steroids you'd think he wouldn't have broken down so quick. It does a great disservice to the game to throw that bone at every departing player in the game and in my opinion and is nothing but a poor attempt at innuendo.

Blame MLB and the Union for the public thinking these things. A laugh? The laugh is MLB and the Union for having those blind eyes for all these years. Disservice? Blame the afore-mentioned MLB and the Union for that, not me or any other fan who questions these things.

Back to Frank... how long have you known the guy? Did you know him when he was 18-years-old and a freshman at Auburn? You may have. But even if you did, it does not mean you know what he did and did not do. Could he have started on the road to roids while playing football at a major D-I program? I'd venture to guess that thousands-upon-thousands of other athletes have. Is Frank above all that? Sure he could be, but I'd put the same odds on the possibility that he has used something that is not legal.

But, as I have already said, laugh at MLB and the Union... not the fan(s). Blame them for something that was out of control and tarnished the game (at least for now). Blame them for innuendo. Blame them, don't blame the fan(s).

westofyou
02-28-2006, 12:45 PM
Back to Frank... how long have you known the guy? Did you know him when he was 18-years-old and a freshman at Auburn?

No, but Pedro's best buddy in Atlanta knew him even before that.

How long have YOU known him?

RFS62
02-28-2006, 12:50 PM
So he was a lemming?


A lemhog

KronoRed
02-28-2006, 12:52 PM
Yeah, someone has to be the adult here. That should have been Kenny.
Who wants to be an adult when you can throw a temper tantrum on ESPN? ;)

Cyclone792
02-28-2006, 12:59 PM
Back to Frank... how long have you known the guy? Did you know him when he was 18-years-old and a freshman at Auburn? You may have. But even if you did, it does not mean you know what he did and did not do. Could he have started on the road to roids while playing football at a major D-I program? I'd venture to guess that thousands-upon-thousands of other athletes have. Is Frank above all that? Sure he could be, but I'd put the same odds on the possibility that he has used something that is not legal.

Adam Dunn signed with Texas, a major D-1 program, to play football. Adam Dunn also went from hitting 16 home runs in over 500 PA in low A-ball in 2000 to hitting a combined 51 home runs in over 600 PA in AA, AAA and MLB the very next season.

While you're at it, why you just go ahead and suggest that Adam Dunn used something illegal as well?

RedFanAlways1966
02-28-2006, 01:04 PM
No, but Pedro's best buddy in Atlanta knew him even before that.

How long have YOU known him?

I am glad you mention if I know him. No, I do not. As a matter of fact I do not know any MLB players who currently grace the MLB diamonds. I am sure that someone's best friend did know Frank. And if I knew the person who knew Frank, I might believe that person. I do not know this person though. So I have to make my own assumptions. And MLB and the Union are to blame for the many-and-many people just like me who love the game of baseball.

Is it absurd to wonder things like this? My answer (of course) is hell no. If you are a naturally big guy, is it fair to get more questions from the fans? No, but such is life that was setup by the people who run their profession and run the union in which they pay dues to every month.

I see it like this: did people still question gambling on the game of MLB by players after the scandal from 1919 broke? Or did fans think everything was hunky-dory after the news broke and players were put on trial (and eventually banned for life)? I am sure people still questioned the integrity of the game for many years after the White Sox ban. Therefore, you can argue about a player's integrity all day. No problem with that. But do not find fault in others who argue the opposite. Frank's fault? No... despite the fact that he supported the Union that tried so hard to hide the obvious (he really did not have much choice if he wanted the benefits derived from being a member).

Frank and many others will forever be questioned. Right or wrong... blame MLB and the Union.

RedFanAlways1966
02-28-2006, 01:04 PM
Adam Dunn signed with Texas, a major D-1 program, to play football. Adam Dunn also went from hitting 16 home runs in over 500 PA in low A-ball in 2000 to hitting a combined 51 home runs in over 600 PA in AA, AAA and MLB the very next season.

While you're at it, why you just go ahead and suggest that Adam Dunn used something illegal as well?

Wait... are you the one who swears that Bonds has never taken anything illegal? If so, no sense in even discussing this matter with you.

Thanks.

Cyclone792
02-28-2006, 01:05 PM
Wait... are you the one who swears that Bonds has never taken anything illegal? If so, no sense in even discussing this matter with you.

Thanks.

I asked a simple question, why can't you give me a simple answer? It just seems to me that if you have a personal dislike for a player, then it's easy for you to suggest he's a cheater. But if you like the guy, then he must be as honest as they come.

westofyou
02-28-2006, 01:06 PM
So I have to make my own assumptions

Yep, there's an old adage about using that road to gaining knowledge.

RedFanAlways1966
02-28-2006, 01:08 PM
I asked a simple question, why can't you give me a simple answer?

I read your argument regarding Bonds. I cannot see us making any progress in discussing steroids. It is probably best for us not to discuss steroids. Nothing personal at all.

RedFanAlways1966
02-28-2006, 01:13 PM
Yep, there's an old adage about using that road to gaining knowledge.

I agree. Same goes for people who argue that Frank is clean b/c a friend of a brother knew Frank. I would think that involves some assuming as well.

And we can see and have seen that the whole steroids issue has caused MLB fans to argue among themselves about who did and who didn't do them. And thank goodness it is all behind us... until someone like Conte comes up with another undetectable supplement. But at least MLB and the Union have finally agreed to test for it and punish those who fail. And I am sorry that I wonder about the cleanliness of players. But don't blame me.

Cyclone792
02-28-2006, 01:24 PM
I read your argument regarding Bonds. I cannot see us making any progress in discussing steroids. It is probably best for us not to discuss steroids. Nothing personal at all.

Of course, I can't see us making any progress when you make suggestions on cheating based on your own personal feelings towards a player. Who needs actual evidence when it's really all about who RFA likes and dislikes?

Funny you mention gambling in the 1920s since betting on baseball, fixing games, covering up fixed game scandals, etc. is about ten billion times worse than steroids. But while you've blasted Frank Thomas through this thread via a highly shady connection on steroids, it seems you have no apparent problem with Charles Comiskey, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker being in Cooperstown.

If you're so concerned with everyone being so squeaky clean, then I'd highly suggest plowing through the dirt spread all over the history of the game and petitioning the HOF to throw out several key members. There are guys in Cooperstown that have been circumstantially connected to things FAR worse than steroids.

westofyou
02-28-2006, 01:26 PM
I would think that involves some assuming as well.

Yeah a bit, but my evidence is based on 1st person knowledge.

What's yours based on aside from conjecture?

RedFanAlways1966
02-28-2006, 01:55 PM
But while you've blasted Frank Thomas through this thread via a highly shady connection on steroids, it seems you have no apparent problem with Charles Comiskey, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker being in Cooperstown.

If you're so concerned with everyone being so squeaky clean, then I'd highly suggest plowing through the dirt spread all over the history of the game and petitioning the HOF to throw out several key members. There are guys in Cooperstown that have been circumstantially connected to things FAR worse than steroids.

You are mistaken. I simply asked can it be possible that Frank did steroids while at Auburn. I asked a question. Did not make any accusations. The question can be interpreted in any way that a reader deems. I wondered aloud. Message boards create these thoughts. But with things like BALCO, Rafael, McGwire, etc... why should any fan question these things? Not to mention the sudden drop in 60+ HR season for individuals that we have seen (happened 2X in MLB history and then happens multiple times in a 5-year span, hmmm?!?!). And for anyone who thinks it is unfair for MLB fans to question these things, talk to Bud Selig and Donald Fehr.

Frankly I do not care about things done in the past that may be deemed bad. I care about making things right at the moment. The past can be learned from, but it cannot be changed. And it seems as though MLB has learned. Why do you suppose new rules and testing guidlines were implemented? Do you think it was done b/c there was not a problem? It was just to correct a mis-labeled image problem with fans like me? I think most of us know better than that. I for one was real hurt when that jerk Jose Canseco seemed more right than wrong with his accusations. Some still will not accept it. That is their right. I guess the new guidelines are just for fun and to make fans like me shut our mouths. Could be. Maybe not.

RedFanAlways1966
02-28-2006, 01:59 PM
Yeah a bit, but my evidence is based on 1st person knowledge.

What's yours based on aside from conjecture?

That is fine, woy. I cannot argue that he is not. I am not as close as being a third person removed from the person. And we all know that users tend to be the first ones to admit it.

Frank must be clean. I must be wrong and should be punished for wondering and asking the question. This is what happens to a guy who has followed the game during the 1990's and 2000's. But remember that there will always be people who think pro-wrestling is real. But who really knows...?

deltachi8
02-28-2006, 02:15 PM
I dont know if Thomas used steriods or not, dont know any one who knows him or knows his uncle's cousin's college roommate. I dont see the problem with asking the question, as long as its an honest question.

I think this was.

Beack to Williams, I understand he should have just ignored it and had his rant behind closed doors away from the media. He is suppose to be a professional. However, isn't Thomas, and other ML Players suppose to be professionals too?

flyer85
02-28-2006, 02:29 PM
He is suppose to be a professional. However, isn't Thomas, and other ML Players suppose to be professionals too?We know that a lot of ball players are self absorbed prima donnas(no shock there). Now there is a GM that looks like one too.

westofyou
02-28-2006, 02:30 PM
However, isn't Thomas, and other ML Players suppose to be professionals too?

Yeah, but there is a world of difference between saying



"I've got a lot of respect for Jerry Reinsdorf, I do. But I really thought, the relationship we had over the last 16 years, he would have picked up the phone to say, 'Big guy, we're moving forward. We're going somewhere different. We don't know your situation or what's going to happen.' I can live with that, I really can," Thomas said.

"But treating me like some passing-by-player. I've got no respect for that,"

Williams said he was most irate over Thomas' comments about Reinsdorf.

Ok, so in turn he says this...


"He's an idiot. He's selfish. That's why we don't miss him,"

Classy.

Cyclone792
02-28-2006, 02:44 PM
You are mistaken. I simply asked can it be possible that Frank did steroids while at Auburn. I asked a question. Did not make any accusations. The question can be interpreted in any way that a reader deems. I wondered aloud. Message boards create these thoughts. But with things like BALCO, Rafael, McGwire, etc... why should any fan question these things? Not to mention the sudden drop in 60+ HR season for individuals that we have seen (happened 2X in MLB history and then happens multiple times in a 5-year span, hmmm?!?!). And for anyone who thinks it is unfair for MLB fans to question these things, talk to Bud Selig and Donald Fehr.

I simply asked that if you say it can also be possible that Frank used steroids at Auburn, then why can't you also say it's possible that Adam used steroids at Texas? You outlined specific parameters for Frank that Adam Dunn also fits and made a suggestion based off those parameters that Frank Thomas could have used steroids. But you can't be consistent and at least admit that "hey, Adam Dunn could have used something illegal too ... "

Nah, you like Adam Dunn. He's a Cincinnati Red. He's one of us, one of our boys. You could likely care less about Frank Thomas. So Thomas gets badmouthed through a far-fetched suggestion while you try to tiptoe around Dunn. It's inconsistent.

Me? I'm consistent; I don't think either one has ever used anything illegal.

As far as Bud Selig, it seems to me that I read a very recent article (maybe last week?) in which he specifically states a certain player has never tested positive for anything illegal during MLB's entire testing program. Not surprisingly, that statement is buried in the bottom of the article and I've yet to see anyone comment on it. But then again, said player is disliked by most fans and any statement from the commissioner supporting that player will likely fall on deaf ears.

Regarding 60 home run seasons, Babe Ruth outhomered entire teams ... but I digress ...


Frankly I do not care about things done in the past that may be deemed bad. I care about making things right at the moment. The past can be learned from, but it cannot be changed. And it seems as though MLB has learned. Why do you suppose new rules and testing guidlines were implemented? Do you think it was done b/c there was not a problem? It was just to correct a mis-labeled image problem with fans like me? I think most of us know better than that. I for one was real hurt when that jerk Jose Canseco seemed more right than wrong with his accusations. Some still will not accept it. That is their right. I guess the new guidelines are just for fun and to make fans like me shut our mouths. Could be. Maybe not.

Sorry, RFA, but stating that you do not care about the past is a complete copout and also inconsistent. You're making suggestions on the recent past of players still playing today, but don't care about the shady and tainted past of the records today's players are chasing? Sure, ok. On one hand you're heavily implying that today's current events taint the history of the game, but now you're stating that you don't care if that very same history that's being tainted was already tainted by previous players. That makes zero sense.

All I've suggested is to put steroids in their proper context. Steroids are bad, but they're not bad to the level the media has portrayed them to be and some fans believe them to be. It's now against the rules to take them, as it should be, but there's plenty of other rules that are not to be broken either that are far more serious and damaging to the game than steroids. Betting on baseball and fixing games is among those that are FAR worse than steroids.

You're right, baseball implemented a testing program, and I do agree with the implementation of that testing program. Now let the testing program do its job, and instead of launching yourself on an absurd witch hunt, it's more valuable to instead make proper suggestions for refining and improving the testing program.

What I think is the most humorous about all of this is with the proper diet and strength conditioning program a person can achieve results beyond what sticking a needle in your rear and flailing away at weights gives you. Your body needs a certain amount of calories per meal. Within each meal, you’ll need certain amounts of protein, carbohydrates, starches, fat, fibers, fruit, vitamins, minerals, electrolyte vitamins, potassium, etc. etc. etc. Everybody is different, and everyone requires a slightly different amount than someone else. Then, as your body changes over time, your caloric intake has to change. Anybody who can master what to eat and when to eat it based on their own body's needs has the ability - also with proper strength conditioning - to achieve incredible results. And if anyone has the time, money and proper incentive to go to those lengths, it's professional athletes. Sticking the needle in your rear is essentially the lazy and unhealthy way to achieve all that.

Of course, some baseball players are outstanding without having to do any of that. Chipper Jones looks like he's never touched a weight in his life, and all he's done is smack 331 home runs before the age of 34 and is on pace to fulfill a HOF career.

cincinnati chili
03-01-2006, 12:56 AM
I've thought this one over, and the more I think about it, Selig should levy a financial penalty against Williams for this. And a substantial one.

First of all, by desconstructing Thomas in such detail, you can make an argument that Williams was tampering here. He's sullied the perception of a commodity that's now property of Oakland.

Secondly, he's diminished the legacy of a marquee player, by levying unsubstantiated and unnecessary personal attacks. For an industry that thrives on the marketing of nostalgia and what not, this is a a big deal.

Thomas has never tested positive for steroids. Other than a one or two week contract holdout in 2000, he's pretty much been a good soldier his whole career.

He might be a complete prick. But his prickatude would have remained below the surface of Williams would have kept his trap shut.

Thomas is an entertainer who furthers the interest of the business of MLB. When the dirty laundry of these entertainers gets aired by MLB executives, it only hurts the overall perception of the game.

Lastly, I think it's pretty clear that Reinsdorff is complicit in these attacks. If Williams gets fined, Reinsdorff will pay it. Unlike the players, owners/execs don't have a union to file a grievance.

Selig should stomp this out before we see more of this.