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View Full Version : Nonobvious idea to improve the Reds pitching



REDREAD
02-28-2006, 02:40 PM
How about trading Pena to the Twins for Tori Hunter and then opening up the wallet to sign Hunter long term. Jr gets shifted to LF, and the defense improves tremendously. A lot more flyballs get caught. Heck, Hunter would probably catch at least 4 Milton gopherballs over the wall :)

I know Pena is young, but we only have control of him for 3 more years anyhow. If the new owner is willing to spend money, I'd love to get a strong up the middle player like Hunter to build around. The Twins get pretty good value for a pending free agent, although I don't know if they'd take that offer.

I realize Hunter is not the greatest OBP guy (337 last year), but I really like the idea of putting an impact glove in the outfield to help our pitching staff.

westofyou
02-28-2006, 02:44 PM
How about trading Pena to the Twins for Tori Hunter and then opening up the wallet to sign Hunter long term.

Ughh, coming off a leg problem, below average power and OB skills and hell be 31 in July... last time the Reds signed a 30 year old CF to a LT contract it didn't work out so well.

I'll pass, plus WMP is exactly the opposite of the Twins type, and they already have two young power hitters with growth problems, one even has OB problems.

membengal
02-28-2006, 02:44 PM
Thought you were going to say "batting tee" because it is cheaper and gets the same results...

ochre
02-28-2006, 02:45 PM
Torii appears to be quickly approaching the mean in regards to defensive prowess.

flyer85
02-28-2006, 02:53 PM
I thought maybe it was going to be a suggestion to send them out to lunch with Lecter.

bottom_feeder
02-28-2006, 09:29 PM
I think it's a great idea to get a good defender in CF to help out this weak staff.

Dunner44
02-28-2006, 09:33 PM
I think it's a great idea to get a good defender in CF to help out this weak staff.

Yeah, just not Tori.... Jr. Still shows flashes in CF, but he is markedly slower... i guess that happens after all the banging he took on Seattle's crappy turf combined with his injury history (half of that because of the turf as well)

Who is considered an upper-echelon defensive CF?

harangatang
02-28-2006, 10:12 PM
Heck, Hunter would probably catch at least 4 Milton gopherballs over the wall
If that's what you want there is none better than Jim Edmonds, I'm sure George Grande would approve. :D

Topcat
02-28-2006, 11:04 PM
Move the mound closer to the Plate when Reds pitchers are on the mound?

REDREAD
03-01-2006, 10:49 AM
Ok, if Tori is approaching average, that means he's still above average now, right?

Pena is flawed (and now in his arbitration years), so you're not going to get an all star player in return for him. Yes, Hunter doesn't have the greatest OBP, but neither does Pena.

Acquiring Tori Hunter or someone like him upgrades two positions in the OF. I think Jr could be an above average LF (or at least average).

Since the Reds are a long way from getting a staff full of above average pitchers, I think it would be a good idea to improve the defense, even if that sacrifices some potential offense.

westofyou
03-01-2006, 11:10 AM
Ok, if Tori is approaching average, that means he's still above average now, right?

Doesn't justify trading a chip for a guy closer to being a corner player than an elite CF, you keep mentioning OB% but ignoring his age and the fact that the Reds would then have an aging CF again under contract.

I'd prefer the Reds pursue players on the way up, not those likely on the way down.

scounts22
03-01-2006, 11:19 AM
If that's what you want there is none better than Jim Edmonds, I'm sure George Grande would approve. :D

:lol: :lol: :lol:

kaldaniels
03-01-2006, 11:19 AM
Ok, if Tori is approaching average, that means he's still above average now, right?

Pena is flawed (and now in his arbitration years), so you're not going to get an all star player in return for him. Yes, Hunter doesn't have the greatest OBP, but neither does Pena.

Acquiring Tori Hunter or someone like him upgrades two positions in the OF. I think Jr could be an above average LF (or at least average).

Since the Reds are a long way from getting a staff full of above average pitchers, I think it would be a good idea to improve the defense, even if that sacrifices some potential offense.


Exactly...Minnesota would say "ummm...NO"

M2
03-01-2006, 11:23 AM
How about a Ron Obvious idea to improve the Reds pitching? We could have them jump the English Channel or try to eat Chichester Cathedral.

IslandRed
03-01-2006, 11:30 AM
Doesn't justify trading a chip for a guy closer to being a corner player than an elite CF, you keep mentioning OB% but ignoring his age and the fact that the Reds would then have an aging CF again under contract.

I'd prefer the Reds pursue players on the way up, not those likely on the way down.

Yep. I like the principle -- swap one of our sluggers for an elite defensive center fielder we need so badly -- but I'd rather pick a younger, cheaper guy (cough like Gathright cough).

ochre
03-01-2006, 11:34 AM
Yep. I like the principle -- swap one of our sluggers for an elite defensive center fielder we need so badly -- but I'd rather pick a younger, cheaper guy (cough like Gathright cough).
You have the right starting letter (G).

I fill it in from there with randerson though.

(Obscure enough Steel?)

Red_BlueDevil
03-01-2006, 12:13 PM
Curtis Granderson would be a FANTASIC pick up!

We match up well with Detroit don't we? We have a surplus of power-happy corner outfielders and Detroit has an abundance of fleet-footed CFs (granderson and that Nook kid)

Anyone know how Dombrowski works? Would a WMP for Granderson deal get it done?

membengal
03-01-2006, 12:29 PM
No offense, but I continue to be flabbergasted at how people undervalue Wily Mo Pena.

Red_BlueDevil
03-01-2006, 12:45 PM
I don't believe I'm undervaluing WMP at all -- I think he is a great talent. Unfortuantely, we have other talent that plays his position and therefore, it would behoove the reds to trade their very talented OF that plays a corner spot for the tigers very talented OF that plays center field.

Go check out Granderson's minor league stats -- he's a stud. Great defense, high OBP. He may not be better than WMP, but he's at least as good. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/curtis-granderson.shtml

westofyou
03-01-2006, 12:52 PM
No offense, but I continue to be flabbergasted at how people undervalue Wily Mo Pena.
When/if he learns to field better and take a walk now and then his value will go up, if there was never a Sammy Sosa or Jose Guillen type of player in the game today then chances are his perceived value would be even lower.

The games history is littered with power hitters who couldn't take a walk, until WMP learns to that then he's on a Tony Armas path, the closer he gets to free agency the lower his value will drop if he can't get on base without slamming the ball.

He's still a wild card with massive promise, whether he's a Red or a chip to get a part the Reds need. But he's hardly a sure thing.

REDREAD
03-01-2006, 02:39 PM
Doesn't justify trading a chip for a guy closer to being a corner player than an elite CF, you keep mentioning OB% but ignoring his age and the fact that the Reds would then have an aging CF again under contract.

I'd prefer the Reds pursue players on the way up, not those likely on the way down.

Pena has a limited shelf life now. 3 years until free agency. Still "all potential".
I'm hoping for the best, but he's still a crapshoot.

I'm not saying give Tori 8 years.. If he's 31 now, he could probably play a better CF than Jr for 4 more years. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think 31 is over the hill. Sure, it's not peak years, but I don't think we're going to get a 26 year old gold glove stud CF for Pena.

REDREAD
03-01-2006, 02:40 PM
Exactly...Minnesota would say "ummm...NO"

I agree with you, I doubt Minnesota agrees to this deal..

membengal
03-01-2006, 03:24 PM
When/if he learns to field better and take a walk now and then his value will go up, if there was never a Sammy Sosa or Jose Guillen type of player in the game today then chances are his perceived value would be even lower.

The games history is littered with power hitters who couldn't take a walk, until WMP learns to that then he's on a Tony Armas path, the closer he gets to free agency the lower his value will drop if he can't get on base without slamming the ball.

He's still a wild card with massive promise, whether he's a Red or a chip to get a part the Reds need. But he's hardly a sure thing.


WOY, I am in no way disagreeing with you, or anyone with a caution flag on WilyMo out. I am saying though, that at his age, and with his skills, that I am VERY curious as to how this will play out in the next few years. If he were 27 or 28? No problem, sell for Granderson, or whoever, But at 23/24 (I think 24 this year), and with him making noises about understanding WHY he should be working on plate discipline, well, I am intrigued. Very intrigued. And, if he gets it, gets the OBP up to the .320 - .330 range? Well, I hope that is in a Reds uniform, that's all I am saying. It's worth the look from where I am sitting.

Weird how happy the news that he took two walks today in the intrasquad makes me. Baby steps.

wheels
03-01-2006, 08:29 PM
WOY, I am in no way disagreeing with you, or anyone with a caution flag on WilyMo out. I am saying though, that at his age, and with his skills, that I am VERY curious as to how this will play out in the next few years. If he were 27 or 28? No problem, sell for Granderson, or whoever, But at 23/24 (I think 24 this year), and with him making noises about understanding WHY he should be working on plate discipline, well, I am intrigued. Very intrigued. And, if he gets it, gets the OBP up to the .320 - .330 range? Well, I hope that is in a Reds uniform, that's all I am saying. It's worth the look from where I am sitting.

Weird how happy the news that he took two walks today in the intrasquad makes me. Baby steps.

Heck...I agree with everything you said about Wily Mo's potential, and I think he'll reach it.

But I ask myself.....Self "You know Wily Mo could turn out to be something special, but what do the Reds need more of ? Power, and suspect defense or great defense and on base skills (from a guy like Granderson)?"

For this particular Reds club, I'll take the defense and on base skills.

Heck, with Granderson's speed and ability to get on base, he'll make up for alot of Wily Mo's extra base pop with a swipe of a bag here or there.

membengal
03-01-2006, 08:34 PM
Well, my Pena bias shows itself here, but I would rather deal Kearns for Granderson then, instead of Wily Mo.

wheels
03-01-2006, 08:42 PM
Well, my Pena bias shows itself here, but I would rather deal Kearns for Granderson then, instead of Wily Mo.

That would work for me too.

It's not really a question of Kearns vs. Pena in my mind. It's more about filling a need.