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View Full Version : DUMB CONTRACTS - Randy Winn and Jack Wilson



cincinnati chili
03-01-2006, 12:23 AM
Winn, 3 years at nearly $8 million per (.346 career OBP, .425 career slugging)

Wilson, 3 years at nearly $7 million per (great defensive range numbers, but out machine offensively)

I don't get either one of these.

Caseyfan21
03-01-2006, 12:35 AM
Eric Milton, 3 years, 25.5 million....

The list goes on and on...

Cyclone792
03-01-2006, 12:41 AM
And people wonder why bad teams just ... stay bad. :bowrofl:

savafan
03-01-2006, 12:57 AM
If this continues, arbitration numbers are going to be sick

KronoRed
03-01-2006, 01:02 AM
Dumb teams paying it.

Doc. Scott
03-01-2006, 01:13 AM
I can't believe they gave Wilson a three-year, $20 million extension. In case you're wondering, he hit .257/.299/.363 last season. That's Juan Castro territory. (Actually, Castro's 2003 career year of .253/.290/.388 was better.)

Career, he's .263/.304/.368. Milton was practically a great value compared to what the Pirates get from Jack F. Wilson.

Topcat
03-01-2006, 04:53 AM
But Winn may have found his perfect comfort zone, and in comparison to gode awful contracts out there. He may actually be capable of living up to the numbers of the contract at least reasonably.

M2
03-01-2006, 08:46 AM
The Winn contract is awful, but at least he's functional at the plate (I'd want to pay a lot less than $8M for functional). The Wilson contract ... well, I'm not sure there's a adjective for how stupid that deal is.

puca
03-01-2006, 08:55 AM
Both contracts are god-awful, but I would rather have Jack Wilson. He may not be able to hit, but he can flat-out pick it at shortstop. He is one of the best defensive shortstops in the majors. The way I see it Winn is just average all the way around.

TC81190
03-01-2006, 08:57 AM
Winn - 363/499 last year. I'd definitely take those numbers.

Chip R
03-01-2006, 08:58 AM
The Wilson contract ... well, I'm not sure there's a adjective for how stupid that deal is.
How about, O'Brienesque?

Johnny Footstool
03-01-2006, 09:20 AM
The Winn deal is pretty typical of what's wrong with MLB -- huge salary for moderate talent.

The Wilson deal is pretty typical of what's wrong with the Pirates -- pure, unadulterated idiocy.

flyer85
03-01-2006, 09:26 AM
The Winn deal is pretty typical of what's wrong with MLB -- huge salary for moderate talent.
... as had been said many times ... the huge inefficiency in baseball is in the paying of the players in the middle.

Johnny Footstool
03-01-2006, 09:54 AM
... as had been said many times ... the huge inefficiency in baseball is in the paying of the players in the middle.

Yep. Moneyball.

westofyou
03-01-2006, 10:06 AM
Winn - 363/499 last year. I'd definitely take those numbers.

That's based on 231 ab's at SBC

The rest of his career is pedestrian.



BORN: 6/9/1974
YEAR TEAM AGE G AB R H 2B 3B HR HR% RBI BB SO SB CS AVG SLG OBA OPS
1998 Devil Rays 24 109 338 51 94 9 9 1 0.30 17 29 69 26 12 .278 .367 .337 .704
1999 Devil Rays 25 79 303 44 81 16 4 2 0.66 24 17 63 9 9 .267 .366 .307 .673
2000 Devil Rays 26 51 159 28 40 5 0 1 0.63 16 26 25 6 7 .252 .302 .362 .664
2001 Devil Rays 27 128 429 54 117 25 6 6 1.40 50 38 81 12 10 .273 .401 .339 .740
2002 Devil Rays 28 152 607 87 181 39 9 14 2.31 75 55 109 27 8 .298 .461 .360 .821
2003 Mariners 29 157 600 103 177 37 4 11 1.83 75 41 108 23 5 .295 .425 .346 .771
2004 Mariners 30 157 626 84 179 34 6 14 2.24 81 53 98 21 7 .286 .427 .346 .772
2005 Mariners 31 102 386 46 106 25 1 6 1.55 37 37 53 12 6 .275 .391 .342 .733
Giants 31 58 231 39 83 22 5 14 6.06 26 11 38 7 5 .359 .680 .391 1.071
TOTALS 160 617 85 189 47 6 20 3.24 63 48 91 19 11 .306 .499 .360 .859
TOTALS 993 3679 536 1058 212 44 69 1.88 401 307 644 143 69 .288 .425 .346 .772
LG AVERAGE 3633 519 978 196 20 117 3.23 494 348 656 63 28 .269 .431 .337 .768
POS AVERAGE 3665 555 1010 198 26 111 3.03 476 338 645 105 41 .276 .434 .340 .774

As for Wilson payig for his defense is one thing, paying 3 years ahead of time is another, when 3000 plus trips to the plate in MLB give you this line

.263/.304/.368/.672

Then you best be Ozzie Smith for 20 million bucks over 3 seasons.

flyer85
03-01-2006, 10:06 AM
Yep. Moneyball.the smaller market teams can't afford to pay big $$ for mediocre performance(or worse).

M2
03-01-2006, 10:13 AM
he rest of his career is pedestrian.

I'd give him a little better than pedestrian. His OPS+ the past four seasons has been 117, 105, 107 and 126. The real problem with the deal, IMO, is that he turns 32 this season. He might be able to help a club in 2006, but in 2008 probably not so much.

RedsManRick
03-01-2006, 11:44 AM
I'd give him a little better than pedestrian. His OPS+ the past four seasons has been 117, 105, 107 and 126. The real problem with the deal, IMO, is that he turns 32 this season. He might be able to a club in 2006, but in 2008 probably not so much.

You have to convert that in to "Giant" years M2. On the Giant's scale, it's a mircale he's in the majors already -- way ahead of schedule.

savafan
03-01-2006, 11:58 AM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports//s_428642.html

By Rob Rossi
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Wednesday, March 1, 2006

BRADENTON, Fla. -- Well it's alright, now. In fact, it's a gas.

Cash, that is... cash, cash, cash.

Jack Wilson -- the popular Pirates' shortstop whose spectacular defensive play has led fans to call him "Jumpin' Jack Flash" after the Rolling Stones' mega-hit -- agreed to a three-year extension worth $20.2 million Tuesday that will keep him in Pittsburgh through at least the 2009 season.

Wilson signed his contract following an afternoon news conference to announce the deal.

At that news conference, Wilson could barely contain his excitement for securing a future with the Pirates.

"A lot of people talk about getting to free agency and going to a contender, but I think I'm playing for a contender right now," Wilson said. "I'm going to be very proud to wear this uniform when we do turn it around."

Wilson, 28, will earn $4.6 million this season under the terms of a two-year contract he signed following his All-Star season in 2004. He will earn $5.25 million in 2007; $6.5 million in 2008; and $7.25 million in 2009. The extension includes a $600,000 signing bonus. The Pirates hold a club-option for 2010, a season in which Wilson could earn $8.4 million; he can be bought out of that option year at a cost of $500,000.

Wilson would have become a free agent following the 2007 season.

His signing means that over the past four months the Pirates have locked up their past two All-Star representatives -- Wilson (2004) and outfielder Jason Bay (2005) -- for the next four seasons.

Wilson said yesterday that the club's signing of Bay convinced him that Pittsburgh was the right fit.

"He's the type of guy you can build a team around; when he signed, I was, like, 'I need to lock myself up, too,' " said Wilson, whose agent, Page Odle, first approached the Pirates about an extension in late-December.

"I was just hoping that they wanted to keep me."

Turned out that the Pirates had no misgivings about offering a rare long-term deal to a player they consider one of the premiere defensive infielders in baseball.

Wilson's lifetime field percentage is .977, including a career-best .982 in 2005.

"That is the most important thing: Jack is one of the five best defensive players in all of baseball," said general manager Dave Littlefield of Wilson, who has finished second in the voting for the National League Gold Glove award four consecutive times.

"He's an excellent shortstop. Everything you want to look at defensively, he scores very well."

Wilson's critics will no doubt argue that the Pirates are paying too much for a career .263 hitter, but the Pirates believe that he is about to breakout offensively.

They might be right.

After all, he is only two seasons removed from batting .308 and recording 201 hits -- a total that was the most by a Pirates player since Dave Parker's 215 in 1977.

Prior to the start of last season, Wilson underwent an emergency appendectomy, which prevented him from properly training for the 2005 season. The end result was Wilson batting just .257 -- but it should be noted that he hit .292 after the All-Star break.

Wilson showed up to spring training this year at 205 pounds, having added bulk to better prepare for the rigors of a 162-game season.

"I think, as he's starting to mature and come into his prime years, he'll do even better offensively," Littlefield said. "Offensively, I'm confident that he's closer to the player you saw at the end of last season than the one you saw at the beginning."

KronoRed
03-01-2006, 12:36 PM
It does make me feel better when teams in our division continue to do idiotic things, makes me thing we have a chance

registerthis
03-01-2006, 05:42 PM
"Wilson's critics will no doubt argue that the Pirates are paying too much for a career .263 hitter, but the Pirates believe that he is about to breakout offensively.

They might be right.

After all, he is only two seasons removed from batting .308 and recording 201 hits -- a total that was the most by a Pirates player since Dave Parker's 215 in 1977."

beg pardon, but if Wilson is ABOUT to breakout offensively, he wouldn't ne two years removed from his break-out season, would he?

Maybe I'm just confused as to what the Pirates expect Wilson to "break out" to.

Patrick Bateman
03-01-2006, 09:22 PM
Even when Wilson hit .300, his OBA and Sl% were well below that type of contract.

KronoRed
03-01-2006, 10:54 PM
Maybe I'm just confused as to what the Pirates expect Wilson to "break out" to.
Like a lot of other players that one BIG season is going to carry them a long way because foolish GM's and manager think they will repeat it.

Ravenlord
03-02-2006, 12:36 AM
they'll give Jack $20,000,000 but they will do their best to not have to play Craig.