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View Full Version : I wish I were Alfonso Soriano



WVRed
03-03-2006, 08:55 PM
20+ errors last season and refuses to switch positions. I guess he must be blackmailing Bowden.


Alfonso Soriano left the Washington Nationals to join the Dominican Republic team for the World Baseball Classic with his position unresolved.

Soriano doesn't want to move from second base to the outfield as the Nationals, who have Jose Vidro at second, have asked.

Alfonso Soriano
Soriano

"They have three weeks to fix it," Soriano told The Washington Post before leaving town. He told the paper he didn't know what would happen if the issue remains unresolved.

Manager Frank Robinson, who didn't have either second baseman in the Nationals' lineup for the first two exhibition games, expects the next move to come from Soriano.

"Hopefully [he will] come to us when he comes back -- or while he's there, maybe have his agent call us and say, 'OK, Alfonso said this is what he's going to do,' " Robinson told the Post. "That's what we're hoping for."

A two-hour meeting with team officials last week failed to produce a breakthrough, and the parties essentially agreed to put off the problem.

"We've been pretty clear about being unclear," general manager Jim Bowden said Feb. 23.

Soriano worked out at second base with the Nationals for the first few days of spring training because that is the position he will play for the Dominican Republic. Soriano reported to the Dominican team Friday and could return as late as March 21.

The Nationals acquired Soriano, a four-time All-Star second baseman, from Texas in a December trade that sent outfielders Brad Wilkerson and Terrmel Sledge and pitcher Armando Galarraga to the Rangers.

With three-time All-Star Vidro already on the roster, Washington made it clear that Vidro will not be moved and that Soriano would be asked to play left field. Soriano made it clear that he wasn't happy about it.

Robinson told the Post that he hasn't had an in-depth conversation since the meeting last week with Soriano, his agent and Bowden to sit down. The team had limited contact with Soriano in the offseason because he was going through arbitration -- the panel chose the team's $10 million offer over his $12 million request.

Robinson has dismissed the notion of moving Vidro to another position. Vidro has been bothered by knee problems for 2 seasons, but said he "100 percent" and ready to play a full season when he reported to camp. He announced he would not play for Puerto Rico in the WBC in order to focus on the Nationals.

Ravenlord
03-03-2006, 10:11 PM
must be nice to be so over hyped.

Crosley68
03-03-2006, 10:43 PM
If they ask him to play LF and he refuses, can they suspend him without pay?

max venable
03-03-2006, 11:36 PM
Thread title started making me hum it to the tune of "I wish I were an Oscar Meyer weiner..."

(singing) Oh, I wish I were Al-fonso Sor-i-a-no. Oh, that is who I'd truly like to be-e-e. For if I were Al-fonso Sor-i-a-no...then all the world would be in love with me. :cool:

Chip R
03-04-2006, 12:08 AM
If they ask him to play LF and he refuses, can they suspend him without pay?

I would think so but a less controversial method would be just to bench him. He can either play LF or sit. I wonder if he has minor league options left?

cincinnati chili
03-04-2006, 12:16 AM
I think the league will push to suspend him without pay, and I'll wholeheartedly support the league. Since "the league" owns the Nationals, it might fly. I'd love to see the union have to defend this guy.

Krusty
03-04-2006, 12:29 AM
It is just leverage on Soriano's part to get a new contract.

Chip R
03-04-2006, 01:49 AM
I wonder if the Yankees would take him back? Possibly for Sheffield since the Nats need an OFer.

TOBTTReds
03-04-2006, 02:42 AM
I hear the Eagles are looking for a wide receiver now that TO will be gone...

Scrap Irony
03-04-2006, 04:46 AM
Denorfia, Aurillia, and Milton for Soriano?

Would that work for the Reds?

Heath
03-04-2006, 10:59 AM
Denorfia, Aurillia, and Milton for Soriano?

Would that work for the Reds?


No because Tony Womack is our starting second baseman. He's a National League type player who has to start since he can manufacture runs :help:

cincinnati chili
03-04-2006, 11:58 AM
It is just leverage on Soriano's part to get a new contract.

I've got an idea for him to get a better contract. Go out and play well in his contract year.

KronoRed
03-04-2006, 12:07 PM
Denorfia, Aurillia, and Milton for Soriano?

Would that work for the Reds?
Nope, Soriano is getting worse each year, his real reason for throwing a fit in Washington is he doesn't want to play in that park.

I'd take him for Milton with the nats picking up the difference in salary.

cincinnati chili
03-04-2006, 12:18 PM
his real reason for throwing a fit in Washington is he doesn't want to play in that park.




Good call. And that's why MLB needs to put the kibosh on it. We can't have pitchers refusing to play in Colorado and hitters refusing to play in Washington, when players' have been traded there within the peramaters of the collective bargaining agreement.

vaticanplum
03-04-2006, 03:08 PM
I wonder if the Yankees would take him back? Possibly for Sheffield since the Nats need an OFer.

There was talk of trading Sheffield (for Mike Cameron, I think) in the middle of last season, and Sheffield made it very clear that he would make life miserable for any team that traded for him. He wants to finish his career with the Yankees.

I do wonder where Soriano will end up, I happen to love him a lot and I find all of this ridiculousness (along with the season he had) kind of heartbreaking.

max venable
03-04-2006, 03:57 PM
He signed a baseball card for me when he was playing for the Columbus Clippers. He was very cool about it. The usher was shooing me away from the dugout but Soriano dissed him and called me over to him to sign my card. It was a Yankees top prespect card that had Soriano and Jiminez on it. I later had Jiminez sign it too. One of my favorite cards.

butlerbulldogs
03-05-2006, 02:20 PM
i got soriano's auto too, met him at the westin in cleveland nice guy

he is the best offensive 2b in the game....

btw,what would the board's reaction be w/ griffey, if we told him he had to move to 1b b/c we have a better cfer now? he wouldn't move either

OnBaseMachine
03-05-2006, 02:40 PM
he is the best offensive 2b in the game....

Chase Utley, Jeff Kent, Jorge Cantu, Luis Castillo, Brian Roberts, Marcus Giles...I would take all of those guys over Soriano. Even Freel at 405,000 is more valuable than Soriano at 8 million or whatever he makes, imo.

max venable
03-05-2006, 02:46 PM
Chase Utley, Jeff Kent, Jorge Cantu, Luis Castillo, Brian Roberts, Marcus Giles...I would take all of those guys over Soriano. Even Freel at 405,000 is more valuable than Soriano at 8 million or whatever he makes, imo.
He's just talking pure offense...saying that Soriano is the best in the game offensively. I agree.

OnBaseMachine
03-05-2006, 02:56 PM
He's just talking pure offense...saying that Soriano is the best in the game offensively. I agree.

But he's not though.

Utley, Kent, Giles, Mark Ellis, Roberts, Polanco, and Todd Walker all had a higher OPS than Soriano last year. Jorge Cantu finished with a similar OPS. Soriano finished last in OPS among the 16 MLB second baseman who had enough atbats to qualify.

WVRed
03-05-2006, 04:02 PM
i got soriano's auto too, met him at the westin in cleveland nice guy

he is the best offensive 2b in the game....

btw,what would the board's reaction be w/ griffey, if we told him he had to move to 1b b/c we have a better cfer now? he wouldn't move either

And the worst defensive 2B in the game as well(if not, he's pretty close). Just because you carry a big stick doesn't mean you aren't a liability on the field.

If Griffey were asked to switch positions because we had a better CF, I would be all for it. Who knows, maybe it would keep him healthy.

max venable
03-05-2006, 05:16 PM
Okay...he's the best FANTASY 2b in baseball. Will you at least give me that? :)

Plus OPS doesn't factor in runs scored, SBs, etc. It's an incomplete stat.

butlerbulldogs
03-05-2006, 11:45 PM
And the worst defensive 2B in the game as well(if not, he's pretty close). Just because you carry a big stick doesn't mean you aren't a liability on the field.

If Griffey were asked to switch positions because we had a better CF, I would be all for it. Who knows, maybe it would keep him healthy.


you said you'd be all for it, it is griffey making the decision not you, if the reds demanded he change positions, what would your opinion be of griffey if he wouldn't switch??

i will take sorianos # as a 2b any day, he is the best offensive 2b....only 30 years old, i could deal with the errors, i will take 18, 39, 38, 28, 36 HRS for his 5 seasons in the league .280 career average, 43, 41, 35, 18 30 sbs...I am very happy you aren't our gm, Todd Walker is better LOL :laugh:

SteelSD
03-06-2006, 02:27 AM
i will take sorianos # as a 2b any day, he is the best offensive 2b....only 30 years old, i could deal with the errors, i will take 18, 39, 38, 28, 36 HRS for his 5 seasons in the league .280 career average, 43, 41, 35, 18 30 sbs...I am very happy you aren't our gm, Todd Walker is better LOL :laugh:

Among 2005 MLB Batting Title qualifiers at Second Base, Brian Roberts (7.43 RC/27), Chase Utley (7.38 RC/27), Jeff Kent (6.65 RC/27), Placido Polanco (6.33 RC/27), and Marcus Giles (6.11 RC/27) were all better offensively than was Alfonso Soriano (5.96 RC/27). The problem is that Soriano's defense (truly awful) throws him even further down the list if we're talking about overall Run value at 2B.

And, yes, Todd Walker didn't have enough PA to qualify for the batting title, but his RC/27 places him above Soriano on the list as well. Toss in the fact that Walker, while average, is still better defensively than Soriano and you won't find a smart GM on the planet who'd take Soriano at 3 times the cost of a Todd Walker.

Soriano was once a much better offensive player but offensive skillsets like his degenerate quickly (see: Batista, Tony). His OBP skills have degraded to a flashpoint and now he doesn't have a top hitter's ballpark to help him out anymore. His Road splits for the past two seasons:

2004: .244 BA/.291 OBP/.444 SLG
2005: .224 BA/.265 OBP/.374 SLG

RFK is going to chew Soriano up and spit him out and his game doesn't play well at even an average offensive ballpark. Bowden made a HUGE mistake in trading for him. Huge.

OnBaseMachine
03-06-2006, 11:52 AM
Among 2005 MLB Batting Title qualifiers at Second Base, Brian Roberts (7.43 RC/27), Chase Utley (7.38 RC/27), Jeff Kent (6.65 RC/27), Placido Polanco (6.33 RC/27), and Marcus Giles (6.11 RC/27) were all better offensively than was Alfonso Soriano (5.96 RC/27). The problem is that Soriano's defense (truly awful) throws him even further down the list if we're talking about overall Run value at 2B.

And, yes, Todd Walker didn't have enough PA to qualify for the batting title, but his RC/27 places him above Soriano on the list as well. Toss in the fact that Walker, while average, is still better defensively than Soriano and you won't find a smart GM on the planet who'd take Soriano at 3 times the cost of a Todd Walker.

Soriano was once a much better offensive player but offensive skillsets like his degenerate quickly (see: Batista, Tony). His OBP skills have degraded to a flashpoint and now he doesn't have a top hitter's ballpark to help him out anymore. His Road splits for the past two seasons:

2004: .244 BA/.291 OBP/.444 SLG
2005: .224 BA/.265 OBP/.374 SLG

RFK is going to chew Soriano up and spit him out and his game doesn't play well at even an average offensive ballpark. Bowden made a HUGE mistake in trading for him. Huge.

Great post, Steel.

Butler - You can have Soriano. I'll take the slightly better and cheaper Walker, among others over Soriano.

KronoRed
03-06-2006, 01:11 PM
A lot of people like him because he steals bases, that's well and good but it doesn't make up for the other huge problems with his game.

butlerbulldogs
03-06-2006, 05:17 PM
in the words of ron burgandy, we agree to disagree, great points, but i don't buy into the rc a game stuff, i like the steals, rbis, and hrs he provides, and all being equal, you have to take him over Todd Walker, that is just common sense

vaticanplum
03-06-2006, 06:51 PM
A lot of people like him because he steals bases, that's well and good but it doesn't make up for the other huge problems with his game.

I like him because he runs like a gazelle.

registerthis
03-06-2006, 07:25 PM
in the words of ron burgandy, we agree to disagree, great points, but i don't buy into the rc a game stuff, i like the steals, rbis, and hrs he provides, and all being equal, you have to take him over Todd Walker, that is just common sense

You can feel free to disagree, but you're disagreeing with logic. Statistics like OPS, RC/G and WS have statistical validity. Those steals and RBIs you like so much are all factored into a stat such as RC/G, and will present a fair glimpse at what the player brings to the table. And the problem is, all ISN'T equal. Walker is clearly the better defensive player of the two, and though he doesn't have Soriano's power or speed, he gets on base far more often. So, is it "common sense" to take a player with Soriano's numbers at $10 million a year over a player such as Walker at a third of that amount? Not necessarily.

WVRed
03-06-2006, 09:54 PM
you said you'd be all for it, it is griffey making the decision not you, if the reds demanded he change positions, what would your opinion be of griffey if he wouldn't switch??

If the Reds acquired a younger CF and asked Griffey to switch positions and he refused, then yes, I would look down on Griffey for not doing something to help better the team. If you want to see the perfect examples of unselfish players, look to Cal Ripken and Alex Rodriguez.


i will take sorianos # as a 2b any day, he is the best offensive 2b....only 30 years old, i could deal with the errors, i will take 18, 39, 38, 28, 36 HRS for his 5 seasons in the league .280 career average, 43, 41, 35, 18 30 sbs...I am very happy you aren't our gm, Todd Walker is better LOL

Really, where did I say Todd Walker is better than Alfonso Soriano? Because I don't see it.

There is no argument that Alfonso Soriano is ONE of the best offensive second baseman in the game. I'm glad you could deal with the errors, because the Rangers couldn't, and apparently the Nationals couldn't either if they were looking at moving him to the outfield.

max venable
03-06-2006, 11:33 PM
Okay...throw the salaries out the window just for comparison's sake. Suppose Soriano and Todd Walker make the same $. If they did, which one would you choose as you team's starting 2B?

KronoRed
03-07-2006, 12:02 AM
I like him because he runs like a gazelle.
Odds?


;)

WVRed
03-07-2006, 09:28 AM
Okay...throw the salaries out the window just for comparison's sake. Suppose Soriano and Todd Walker make the same $. If they did, which one would you choose as you team's starting 2B?

Soriano, because if you throw defense out the window as well(Walker was not likely to ever win a gold glove in the future), it comes down strictly to offense.

Why the fascination with Todd Walker?:confused:

max venable
03-07-2006, 09:52 AM
Soriano, because if you throw defense out the window as well(Walker was not likely to ever win a gold glove in the future), it comes down strictly to offense.

Why the fascination with Todd Walker?:confused:
The point some people are trying to make is that they like Todd Walker's offensive game better than Soriano's. :all_cohol

registerthis
03-07-2006, 11:46 AM
Okay...throw the salaries out the window just for comparison's sake. Suppose Soriano and Todd Walker make the same $. If they did, which one would you choose as you team's starting 2B?

Depends on how my team was structured. If I had a plethora of run producers and was more in need of a better defensive player with average offensive skills than another raker, I'd probably take Walker. If I needed some power and speed in my lineup and wasn't that concerned about infield defense (perhaps I had a quality pitching staff), then I'd take Soriano. Also would depend on the park that I played in and the type of protection my lineup could offer Soriano.

The point is that it's not nearly so cut-and-dry. Soriano's offensive numbers have been embellished by playing in a hitter-friendly park, and his defensive woes have been pushed to the rear because his offense supposedly makes up for it. He's a very good offensive second baseman, to be sure, but he's far from every team's answer at that position.

butlerbulldogs
03-07-2006, 06:27 PM
i'd rather have a guy like Rich Aurillia, b/c he gives a professional AB, every time up!! (note: throwin' a lil' humor into the conversation)

KronoRed
03-07-2006, 08:56 PM
I'd want Womack

He's been to the playoffs