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View Full Version : 3 homers not enough for Narron



jmcclain19
03-06-2006, 02:30 AM
http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0306redsnotesweb.html


3 homers not enough for Narron

By Hal McCoy

Dayton Daily News

SARASOTA, Fla. It isn't that Cincinnati Reds manager Jerry Narron is unappreciative of outstanding accomplishments, sometimes he is a tough critic, and admits it.

For instance, how about those three home runs in two games by third baseman Edwin Encarnacion?

"I was disappointed he struck out with the bases loaded (on a 3-and-2 pitch) against the Yankees Sunday," said Narron. "That's when he has to put the ball in play."

Narron paused and smiled.

"I guess that's kind of nit-picking of a guy who hit three home runs in two days," he said. "He is having a good spring. He is an intelligent kid. He hit two homers (Friday against the Twins) and his second homer was a great at-bat. He fouled off several good pitches before he homered."

What Narron likes most is that he saw Encarnacion when he was 18 years old, a year after he signed with Texas, Narron's first year as manager of the Rangers.

"We put him out there with major-league players and from the first day he stepped on the field he showed poise and confidence and wasn't intimated," said Narron. "And he hasn't changed one bit since that day."

Wilson's loop-de-loop

Paul Wilson calls it a roller coaster ride, "And we're past the big hill, but we still have some small hills, corkscrews and loop-de-loops left."

Wilson threw 50 warm-up pitches Sunday morning, then 30 pitches to coach Mike Stefanski, "And he took me deep (homers) twice, he really did," said Wilson.

"That's exaggerated," said Stefanski. "I took 10 swings and hit two good."

Wilson is on the same program as if he is part of a five-day rotation pitch, rest a day, play long-toss and do light throwing on the third day, take the fourth day off, then throw 80 or so pitches as if it was a game.

"We want Paul back on April 1," said manager Jerry Narron. "If he can't make it April 1, then April 2. If not April 2, then April 3."

In other words, there is not timetable for Wilson as he attempts to come back from shoulder surgery.

The magic of Yogi

Manager Jerry Narron enjoyed seeing Yogi Berra at Legends Field when the Reds played the New York Yankees Sunday and said, "I tried to rub up against him a few times for luck. The guy has appeared in more World Series games than anybody in history."

Narron said Berra showed up for a game Narron managed the Texas Rangers and he told Lee Stevens, "Try to rub up against Yogi. He might be the luckiest baseball player in the world with all those World Series appearances.

Stevens was a doubter, but playfully bumped against Yogi before the game, making certain Narron saw it, to appease him.

"True story. Stevens hit three home runs that night," said Narron. Milton is antsy

Pitcher Eric Milton is restless to face hitters, but he still feels some grabbiness in his calf, which he injured during stretching exercises while running backwards.

He threw eight minutes on the side Sunday and said, "I have no problems throwing. But I can feel the calf pull. As long as I feel something, they won't let me face hitters because they won't it to completely heal so it doesn't linger.

Milton hopes he'll pitch Tuesday, "Because I need to face some hitters and not fall too far behind."

Dunn in left

With left fielder Wily Mo Pena off to the World Baseball Classic, it gave Narron an opportunity Sunday to move first baseman Adam Dunn back to left field and insert Scott Hatteberg at first base something that could be seen a few times during the season.

"Hatteberg gives us a guy who will give you a good at-bat every time an d put the ball in play," said Narron. "I'm going to do everything I can to keep Hatteberg sharp if he is going to help us."

I think the last paragraph really irks me. How about not moving your star slugger around like a pinball on the field to keep a bench player "fresh"?

KronoRed
03-06-2006, 02:32 AM
Narron appears to loath starters.

WMR
03-06-2006, 02:37 AM
Narron can't be gotten rid of soon enough, IMO.

The dude is a dinosaur--throwback: and not in a good way--and I really disagree with A LOT of his quotes and decisions.

reds44
03-06-2006, 03:38 AM
Either

A. Narron is a moron and really meant when he said about EE
or
B. Hal is a grumpy old man, and wrote a god awful title and took Jerry's comment out of context.

Either way if I hear "quality at bat" one more time I am going to vomit. Do you have to be 35 and on the decline to give quality at bats or as that the only thing Hatteberg and Womack and RA do well?

I am sorry, but all of us know we probably aren't going anywhere this year, but why do we gotta be old? Play EE, Freel, the 3 outfielders, Dunn at 1st, and let's go play ball.

Ravenlord
03-06-2006, 04:39 AM
...why do we gotta be old? Play EE, Freel, the 3 outfielders, Dunn at 1st, and let's go play ball.
and trade all the members of bullpen who have guarenteed contracts.:)

membengal
03-06-2006, 06:54 AM
All quotes like that do is make me want Lancaster to ask Narron every time every Reds player fails to get a hit (or a bat on ball) with runner on if that means their previous good work is "not enough". I am starting to wonder just how small bus Narron is.

I guess I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the shortest of leashes that he is somehow applying pressure to EE to keep him hitting the ball at a rate hotter than most everyone else in baseball. But the underlying expectation at that point, even if meant as a motivational tool, is so dangerously deluded that the man would have to be insane. I don't get it. The best hitters of all time failed to get a hit on six of every ten at-bats. Presumably, even in the magical .400 seasons, some of those failures came with men on. It seems reasonable, even if you work a count to 3-2 (demonstrating nice plate discipline mind you, to get to that point), that sometimes you will fail to connect on the next pitch (hitting a baseball remains a hard thing to do).

Really, this kind of thing is unseemly.

corkedbat
03-06-2006, 07:11 AM
I may have to leave work early today, I'm feeling some "grabbiness" and it's not pleasant. :D

traderumor
03-06-2006, 07:39 AM
It seems like someone who can't crack a joke (which Narron cannot) trying to be funny.

membengal
03-06-2006, 07:57 AM
TR, I hope you are right. But I don't trust him.

KittyDuran
03-06-2006, 08:57 AM
Either

A. Narron is a moron and really meant when he said about EE
or
B. Hal is a grumpy old man, and wrote a god awful title and took Jerry's comment out of context.

Either way if I hear "quality at bat" one more time I am going to vomit. Do you have to be 35 and on the decline to give quality at bats or as that the only thing Hatteberg and Womack and RA do well?

I am sorry, but all of us know we probably aren't going anywhere this year, but why do we gotta be old? Play EE, Freel, the 3 outfielders, Dunn at 1st, and let's go play ball.So he's a moron for all the things he said about EE in the article? I thought he was pretty even handed in his quotes...

Johnny Footstool
03-06-2006, 09:29 AM
Message to Reds players: Bunt on 3-2.

Chip R
03-06-2006, 09:37 AM
Message to Reds players: Bunt on 3-2.

Now that's scrappy.

Blimpie
03-06-2006, 09:49 AM
Narron can't be gotten rid of soon enough, IMO.

The dude is a dinosaur--throwback: and not in a good way--and I really disagree with A LOT of his quotes and decisions.WilyMo: All I wanted to say was that I am really digging your new avatar....:eek:

Oh yeah, that...and that EdE appears to be completely hosed at this juncture.

TeamBoone
03-06-2006, 10:41 AM
I agree motivation is good... but why say something decent about a guy and in the next breath convey your disapproval. It's a good way to break a young guy's spirit... like, "nothing I do is ever good enough". I relate it to the parent who quibbles about one B on a report card filled with A's.

Regarding Hatteberg/Dunn, if he keeps doing this in an attempt to keep Hatteberg sharp, it infringes on playing Kearns/Pena everyday. In my mind, it's more important to keep them sharp as they are the future. Isn't that supposedly one of the things that made the Casey trade so important?

I totally agree about not moving Dunn around often. If he's the Cincinnati Reds first baseman, then allow him to be the Cincinnati Reds first baseman. This is beginning to sound like platooning... Adam is a franchise player; he shouldn't be platooned. Let him own the position he's been chosen to play.

traderumor
03-06-2006, 10:44 AM
So he's a moron for all the things he said about EE in the article? I thought he was pretty even handed in his quotes...I do too. Narron's a coach who sees a missed opportunity with the negative remark. He then goes on to point out the positives he's seen. I have seen Narron be impressed more often than not, but then if he said to many good things, he'd be accused of gushing and not being realistic about his players. Narron's problem is still talent. He wrote out a decent lineup card most of the time after he took over and the players seem to respect him. He also seemed to know when to take a pitcher out more often than not. That is most of what a manager does to affect a game. I can live with Narron. I cannot live with this roster, and hopefully neither can Krivsky.

flyer85
03-06-2006, 10:54 AM
Narron wants RA and Woemack in his lineup and I have little doubt that will be the case unless Krivsky thwarts him by getting rid of at least one of them.

flyer85
03-06-2006, 11:01 AM
Either

A. Narron is a moron and really meant when he said about EE
I think he loves RA and his scrappiness factor.

Why do you think Rich wanted to come back? The answer is simple, he knows that Narron will find a spot for him.

There is no way that RA is not a starter(at 3b or 2b) on opening day unless he gets traded.

Heath
03-06-2006, 11:40 AM
Out of all the moves the Reds have made for veteran "help", I'm happy with Hatteberg. He knows his role and he's not complaining about it. Also, he's in a rotation where he's going to play once a week at 1b and also he'll DH at AL parks.

You also have to figure that Kearns/Griffey/Pena aren't the healthiest players in the world, which would shift Dunn to the OF and Hatteberg at 1st.

There could be worse.

Heath
03-06-2006, 11:41 AM
There is no way that RA is not a starter(at 3b or 2b) on opening day unless he gets traded.

Well there is, but it involves dark alleys, steel pipes, and Krono. :evil:

BRM
03-06-2006, 11:43 AM
There is no way that RA is not a starter(at 3b or 2b) on opening day unless he gets traded.

I agree. I just hope it's at 2B, not 3B...not that I prefer RA to Freel mind you.

membengal
03-06-2006, 11:51 AM
I agree motivation is good... but why say something decent about a guy and in the next breath convey your disapproval. It's a good way to break a young guy's spirit... like, "nothing I do is ever good enough". I relate it to the parent who quibbles about one B on a report card filled with A's.


Dead on. 100%.

traderumor
03-06-2006, 11:54 AM
I agree motivation is good... but why say something decent about a guy and in the next breath convey your disapproval. It's a good way to break a young guy's spirit... like, "nothing I do is ever good enough". I relate it to the parent who quibbles about one B on a report card filled with A's.

That comment is far from "never good enough to suit you." That is a continual thing, not isolated comments here and there to point out areas of improvement.

Doc. Scott
03-06-2006, 12:13 PM
Yeah, this is just a case of headline trumpeting the small odd part of a whole. Either Hal's lying about not doing his own headlines, or the headline writer was hired by the DDN away from the National Enquirer.

KronoRed
03-06-2006, 12:14 PM
Message to Reds players: Bunt on 3-2.
..and when you hit into a DP..feel proud.

KronoRed
03-06-2006, 12:14 PM
Well there is, but it involves dark alleys, steel pipes, and Krono. :evil:
:devil:
I do need to visit Florida sometime

KittyDuran
03-06-2006, 12:52 PM
I agree motivation is good... but why say something decent about a guy and in the next breath convey your disapproval. It's a good way to break a young guy's spirit... like, "nothing I do is ever good enough". I relate it to the parent who quibbles about one B on a report card filled with A's.
How'd do you know my parents??? ;)

Matt700wlw
03-06-2006, 02:46 PM
I'm sure he's quite pleased with Encarnacion so far, as we all are. As the manger, it's his job not to ever be satisfied when mistakes are made...it's his job to get the players to correct all mistakes, win or lose.

Johnny Footstool
03-06-2006, 02:54 PM
As the manger, it's his job not to ever be satisfied when mistakes are made...it's his job to get the players to correct all mistakes, win or lose.

Is not putting the ball in play on a 3-2 pitch really a mistake? Or could it be an attempt at producing *high-quality* contact that didn't pay off?

If EE shortens his stroke and produces a weak grounder (which is a highly probable outcome when you simply try to make contact), did he somehow "succeed"?

traderumor
03-06-2006, 03:14 PM
I'm pretty sure situational hitting as a skill is not something that should be totally dismissed.

traderumor
03-06-2006, 03:17 PM
Is not putting the ball in play on a 3-2 pitch really a mistake? Or could it be an attempt at producing *high-quality* contact that didn't pay off?

If EE shortens his stroke and produces a weak grounder (which is a highly probable outcome when you simply try to make contact), did he somehow "succeed"?Conversely, swinging from one's heels on a 3-2 bases loaded pitch is also not advisable (which missing the pitch by a foot is a highly probable outcome). I don't think either/or is desirable in such a situation, but somewhere in the middle of the two.

Chip R
03-06-2006, 03:29 PM
Conversely, swinging from one's heels on a 3-2 bases loaded pitch is also not advisable (which missing the pitch by a foot is a highly probable outcome). I don't think either/or is desirable in such a situation, but somewhere in the middle of the two.

True enough. But we really don't know if he was swinging from the heels or if it was a strikeout looking. I understand you have to protect the plate in that situation but if the ball is 6 inches outside, I'd rather not have him swinging at that pitch. I'm not too bothered by this. At least Narron said he might be nitpicking. Still I'd hate to see Narron get on his case every time he strikes out. That can kill a young player's confidence quicker than anything.

I believe that EdE will be the starting 3rd baseman to begin the season. However, I also feel that he's going to grab some pine every time an Oswalt or a Pedro is pitching and he better not slump too badly or else he may be looking at doing some platooning.

RedsManRick
03-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Dead on. 100%.

On the other hand, if all you do is compliment and don't address the weaknesses, you get a guy who thinks he's all that if he hits 25 homers even if he only hits .245 and drives in 50. You could argue that you praise publically and criticize privately, but I can't see the harm in keeping a healthy balance of praise and critique.

Caveat Emperor
03-06-2006, 03:57 PM
Yeah, this is just a case of headline trumpeting the small odd part of a whole. Either Hal's lying about not doing his own headlines, or the headline writer was hired by the DDN away from the National Enquirer.

I'd imagine that it'd be in Hal's interest for Rich NOT to win the starting 3B job and get stuck as a bench player. He'd be a malcontent at that point, and a malcontent is always a better source of information about team goings-on than a happy player.

Johnny Footstool
03-06-2006, 05:19 PM
Conversely, swinging from one's heels on a 3-2 bases loaded pitch is also not advisable (which missing the pitch by a foot is a highly probable outcome). I don't think either/or is desirable in such a situation, but somewhere in the middle of the two.

I agree. I think that middle ground would be a batter's regular approach, which should generate more quality contact than a shortened swing or an all-or-nothing hack. You have to risk the strikeout, but IMO it's a gamble worth taking.

Of course, when the hitter takes that regular approach and strikes out, it's gives the manager something to talk about -- "Ed can improve his game by getting more hits and making less outs." Helps them justify their continued employment.

DannyB
03-06-2006, 05:39 PM
Narron reminds me more and more of Bob Boone:thumbdown

TeamBoone
03-06-2006, 06:49 PM
On the other hand, if all you do is compliment and don't address the weaknesses, you get a guy who thinks he's all that if he hits 25 homers even if he only hits .245 and drives in 50. You could argue that you praise publically and criticize privately, but I can't see the harm in keeping a healthy balance of praise and critique.

I agree, but criticize when the situation warrents, not after he's just had two stellar games.

Besides, he could have worded it differently. Perhaps praise the guy and then maybe critique what he could have done better to avoid the strike out, instead of telling the world he was disappointed.

BUTLER REDSFAN
03-06-2006, 08:50 PM
this is just narrons way of telling encarnacion now that now matter how good a spring he has the job is aurilia's

minus5
03-06-2006, 08:57 PM
this is just narrons way of telling encarnacion now that now matter how good a spring he has the job is aurilia's

I don't buy it. I think the job is E's. I think a lot more is being read into this whole thing than warrants.

KronoRed
03-06-2006, 09:25 PM
Narron reminds me more and more of Bob Boone:thumbdown
Both former AL managers, both former catchers

Hmm ;)

Superdude
03-06-2006, 10:58 PM
I think Krivsky has to step in sometime and set Narron straight. He's practically giving the second base job to one of the worst players in the majors when he's done nothing at all to deserve it and EdE has two huge games and Narron nitpicks about 1 at bat! Probably 4/5 of this board is smarter than the coach of the team!

KronoRed
03-06-2006, 11:03 PM
I wonder if Krivsky is letting Narron dig his own grave.

tbball10
03-06-2006, 11:11 PM
i think it was more a little humor from narron than anything. i dont know why everyone is making such a big deal of this, but whatever.

Superdude
03-06-2006, 11:13 PM
I wouldn't be so worried about it if Narron wasn't so obsessed with Womack and Aurilia.

M2
03-07-2006, 12:16 AM
Encarnacion seems like a driven guy. I remember the interview SC did with him two years back and it was clear that Encarnacion had put a lot of thought into what was needed to make himself a better player. He came across as a guy who's never satisfied with his game.

We also know he's always been a relative youngster compared to his competition. He's always been challenged and he's always responded.

Maybe Narron figures that Encarnacion is the sort who, when giving a Sisyphusian task, figures out how to push the stone to the top of the hill.

Clearly he's talented. Clearly he's come into spring training ready to invade and plunder. Maybe Narron's of the opinion that Edwin likes to be pushed and that he responds well to it.

I'll concede it's more likely that Narron just digs veterans, but maybe this is a case of him setting the bar higher for an overachiever.

Johnny Footstool
03-07-2006, 09:48 AM
i think it was more a little humor from narron than anything. i dont know why everyone is making such a big deal of this, but whatever.

Based on what he has said and done in the past, I'd say his comments had a grain of humor, but he genuinely believes that batters "fail" when they strike out on a full count.

Little Alex
03-07-2006, 10:53 AM
I want to hear more about Narron rubbing against Yogi Berra. (not really.)

tbball10
03-07-2006, 11:29 AM
Based on what he has said and done in the past, I'd say his comments had a grain of humor, but he genuinely believes that batters "fail" when they strike out on a full count.

It is failing when you strike out on a full count with the bases loaded, but it is easier to accept when you have hit 3hr's in the past 2 days.

BRM
03-07-2006, 11:40 AM
It is failing when you strike out on a full count with the bases loaded, but it is easier to accept when you have hit 3hr's in the past 2 days.

Is hitting a weak grounder to the 2B that results in a DP considered failing?

tbball10
03-07-2006, 12:04 PM
Is hitting a weak grounder to the 2B that results in a DP considered failing?

yes that would also be considered failing, but other than a pop up that is the only bad thing that can happen if you put the ball in play in that situation.

M2
03-07-2006, 12:10 PM
yes that would also be considered failing, but other than a pop up that is the only bad thing that can happen if you put the ball in play in that situation.

You've forgotten shallow flies and lineouts in addition to groundouts and popups.

Anyway, in all situations I want players putting their best swings on the ball. Sometimes they'll whiff, but a kid with electric bat speed like Encarnacion should only be looking to slap the ball in extreme circumstances (e.g. down to your last out of the game with two strikes on you).

Johnny Footstool
03-07-2006, 12:16 PM
yes that would also be considered failing, but other than a pop up that is the only bad thing that can happen if you put the ball in play in that situation.

Putting the ball in play results in an around 70% of the time. Simply "putting the ball in play" works pretty well in little league, where fielders generally suck. But in the bigs, you're better off swinging like you normally would and risking a K than in slapping the ball and simply trying to put it in play.

tbball10
03-07-2006, 06:51 PM
i agree that a lineout, pop up or shallow fly is the same thing as a k. a double play is worse than a k, but i would say more times than not, if there is less than 2 out and the bases are loaded, if you put the ball in play, you will get at least 1 run.