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RedLegSuperStar
03-08-2006, 06:55 PM
Is this kid showcasing his power or what? Hit his 4th homerun today. My goodness. I got to believe Rich Aurillia won't be taking his starting nod at 3rd.

Superdude
03-08-2006, 07:15 PM
Are you serious? If Rich Aurilia starts at third it would be an asbolute crime.

Johnny Footstool
03-08-2006, 07:19 PM
Last year, Miley committed a similar crime by giving Rich Aurilia the starting nod even though Lopez outplayed him in Spring Training.

Of course, Narron is no Miley...

VI_RedsFan
03-08-2006, 07:31 PM
Wow...EE is having a hell of a spring. He really needs to improve his fielding though, he had an error today.

If Narron doesn't have Eddy out there Opening Day...I might have to shoot him.

dougdirt
03-08-2006, 07:36 PM
That makes two of us VI_RedsFan

westofyou
03-08-2006, 07:39 PM
Wow...EE is having a hell of a spring. He really needs to improve his fielding though, he had an error today.

If Narron doesn't have Eddy out there Opening Day...I might have to shoot him.
Yeah, it was a short hop error too, those are generally a pain in the arse and can go either way it the fielder doesn't look too ugly attempting the pick up.

KronoRed
03-08-2006, 07:40 PM
Of course, Narron is no Miley...
Nope, I think he's a Boone

traderumor
03-08-2006, 08:39 PM
There is a difference between the Lopez and EE situation. Lopez was coming off the ankle injury and had been a major disappointment to date. While he clearly outplayed Aurilia in the spring, he had done nothing but look like a toolsy bust up to breaking out last year. OTH, EE has proven himself at every level, is two years younger, and was plugged in as the regular last year and did not totally embarrass himself.

I really don't think its a valid comparison and EE will be starting at 3B on OD.

flyer85
03-08-2006, 09:46 PM
He stinks, he Ks withs the bases loaded.

mole44
03-08-2006, 10:24 PM
Anyone know if he got enough at bats last year to take away his rookie status?

steig
03-08-2006, 11:06 PM
EdE had 221 at bats in 69 games.

guttle11
03-08-2006, 11:09 PM
I think it would be great if on Opening Day, Narron pencils in Aurilia at 3B. Then, just before the first pitch, yells "SYKE!" and sends EE in for Ol' Weakswing McPlayme.

dougdirt
03-08-2006, 11:50 PM
guttle11, no it wouldnt be great, becuase it might get Narron hurt beforehand.

Johnny Footstool
03-09-2006, 01:06 AM
There is a difference between the Lopez and EE situation. Lopez was coming off the ankle injury and had been a major disappointment to date. While he clearly outplayed Aurilia in the spring, he had done nothing but look like a toolsy bust up to breaking out last year. OTH, EE has proven himself at every level, is two years younger, and was plugged in as the regular last year and did not totally embarrass himself.

I really don't think its a valid comparison and EE will be starting at 3B on OD.

It's not apples to apples, but it's not apples to oranges, either. It's more like apples to pears.

Both Lopez and EE are youngsters competing with a Proven Veteran(TM) for a starting position. Both Miley and Narron have stated that they don't want to hand the job to a kid on a silver platter. Both Miley and Narron have stated that the starting position will go to whoever earns it in Spring Training.

Granted, there are several differences which you pointed out, but the one significant similarity might end up being the managers' distrust of young players and devotion to Proven Veterans(TM).

WMR
03-09-2006, 02:18 AM
i agree rich is too slow theese days we need speed out there and players that can have good range on defense and make plays

pmurray48
03-09-2006, 09:36 AM
I'd like to see Rich at 2B. EE has just played to well this spring to be denied, but it seems to me that Rich is the best option at second with Freel and Womack used in utility type roles. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Johnny Footstool
03-09-2006, 10:29 AM
As discussed in other threads, Freel brings OB skills and speed to the top of the lineup. Keeping him in a utility role will only hurt the team. He needs to play every day.

Jpup
03-09-2006, 03:04 PM
I'd like to see Rich at 2B. EE has just played to well this spring to be denied, but it seems to me that Rich is the best option at second with Freel and Womack used in utility type roles. Correct me if I'm wrong.

you are. Freel should be the everyday 2nd baseman until he gets hurt or can't get on base anymore.

Heath
03-09-2006, 03:35 PM
Someone around here compares playing EdE everyday in 2006 akin to finding out if he is Mike Schmidt or Kelly Paris.

He keeps this up, I won't have to worry about it....but there is the "Narron Factor".

JinAZ
03-09-2006, 05:49 PM
He keeps this up, I won't have to worry about it....but there is the "Narron Factor".

I just worry that he'll hit a cold spell a week from now and they'll use that as a reason not to give him the job. But I really want to believe we've entered the land of rationality with Krivsky starting up. So I'm just going to assume they'll do the smart thing...but it should never come down to spring training performance anyway. -J

icehole3
03-09-2006, 06:51 PM
What type of numbers would be considered a good year for Eddie E? 25 Hrs, 90 RBIs, .280 BA.

westofyou
03-09-2006, 07:04 PM
What type of numbers would be considered a good year for Eddie E? 25 Hrs, 90 RBIs, .280 BA.
.335 ob% .475 slg% .280 BA, 50 EBH, 50 walks, 17 errors.

Would be a great year.

OnBaseMachine
03-09-2006, 07:06 PM
.335 ob% .475 slg% .280 BA, 50 EBH, 50 walks, 17 errors.

Would be a great year.

Similar to what I was thinking... except I will go with a 340 OB% and .460 SLG.

RedLegSuperStar
03-09-2006, 08:46 PM
5 HR's in 21 AB's

wheels
03-09-2006, 08:59 PM
He homered again?

What in the world can Narron do to spin this one when the time comes?

Ravenlord
03-09-2006, 09:04 PM
He homered again?

What in the world can Narron do to spin this one when the time comes?
he's obviously not hitting behind the runner, nor is he able to change his swing to hit the sac fly.:evil:

wheels
03-09-2006, 09:24 PM
he's obviously not hitting behind the runner, nor is he able to change his swing to hit the sac fly.:evil:

He needs more singles to right, not homers.:p:

The_jbh
03-09-2006, 09:25 PM
I think Aurilla will be the 2nd baseman 3 days a week with Freel at 2nd 4 days and in the outfield 2 days

TeamBoone
03-09-2006, 10:03 PM
I think Aurilla will be the 2nd baseman 3 days a week with Freel at 2nd 4 days and in the outfield 2 days

That's not a utility man; it's more like a rover.

Utility men are not usually put in the game unless needed. A true utility man would probably not play 6 or 7 games a week.

And he's too valuable to rove, plus it's not fair to the starters he's replacing on a consistent basis just to give him at-bats.

He's good enough to be the starter at 2nd... and that's where he should be. Let the real utility guys, Womack and Aurilia, back HIM up when necessary.

membengal
03-09-2006, 11:04 PM
He needs more singles to right, not homers.:p:

Heh. Double heh.

red-in-la
03-09-2006, 11:40 PM
Freel has shown i the past that when he plays everyday he wears down quickly. His defense, especially anywhere in the infield is just brutal and he is subject to 0-29 streaks when he plays too often.

As bad as it might be....look for Aurilia to be the only REAL alternative for everyday 2B play.....and I would bet that Narron will bat him second.

flyer85
03-09-2006, 11:47 PM
OPS over 800

jmcclain19
03-10-2006, 12:02 AM
What type of numbers would be considered a good year for Eddie E? 25 Hrs, 90 RBIs, .280 BA.



As WOY pointed out, a great year for EdE would be around

.280AVG/.335OBP/.475SLG/.810OPS

Just so everyone has a point of reference here
2005 stats

David Wright
.306AVG/.388OBP/.523SLG/.911OPS
Eric Chavez
.269AVG/.329OBP/.466SLG/.794OPS
Morgan Ensberg
.283AVG/.388OBP/.557SLG/.945OPS
Hank Blalock
.263AVG/.318OBP/.431SLG/.749OPS
Melvin Mora
.283AVG/.348OBP/.474SLG/.821OPS

If EdE puts up numbers close to these type of numbers every Reds fan should be doing cartwheels.

SteelSD
03-10-2006, 12:12 AM
Freel has shown i the past that when he plays everyday he wears down quickly. His defense, especially anywhere in the infield is just brutal and he is subject to 0-29 streaks when he plays too often.

As bad as it might be....look for Aurilia to be the only REAL alternative for everyday 2B play.....and I would bet that Narron will bat him second.

Huh? Subject to 0-29 streaks? And when exactly did all of Freel's 0-for-29 streaks occur exactly?

In 2004, Freel put up 592 Plate Appearances. After a bad April, he posted the following OBP numbers:

May: .381
June: .408
July: .394
August: .354
September: .390

You don't do that if you're prone to having 0-for-29 streaks. Can't happen. And Freel played more often in 2004 than he has ever. He was better defensively at 2B than was Aurilia last season. And, of the two, Freel stands the better chance of being able to replicate his numbers in 2006 and is infinitely better equipped to actually do something positive for the team in the 81 games they don't play at the GAB.

If you're worried about Freel "breaking down", fine, but that's a perceived trend- not the reality. And it isn't like Rich Aurilia's 34-year old body isn't nearing that point as well. In any case, the Reds need to slot Freel in at 2B and leadoff every day until that happens.

Reds1
03-10-2006, 12:17 AM
Didn't he hit #5 today! He's the MVP of ST so far. :)

red-in-la
03-10-2006, 04:27 AM
Steel, I think you are right......it is more my perception. Freel has overall really been very steady, just a couple of really bad months (.182 BA and .200 BA) in his approx 2 years playing pretty much more than half a year (in terms of AB's). I guess you can expect that out of most any batter.

But I will point out that his Fielding % as a 2B is not so great (.976) and it is abysmal as a 3B (.928).

By comparison, Aurilia is better at both positions.....with actually a far superior Zone Rating (.825 compared to just .796 for Freel). So if Aurilia is the statue that many say he is, Freel also is mounted in concrete.

red-in-la
03-10-2006, 04:39 AM
BTW, I did look some of this up.....from jun 9 thru jun18, Freel went 4-32. From aug 3 to aug 9, Freel was 0-19. Again, I freeely admit, that it is more my perception that cold ahrd stats, but I just recalled some periods last year when he looked lost at the plate. And again, I suppose ANY player has these stretches, but for me, getting OB (so he can steal) is about ALL Freel brings to a ballgame, so when he goes for a week without a hit, or almost two weeks with just 4 hits, that can be problematic....not awful, just not the guy some people on this board seem to want to fantisize Freel to be.

Ron Madden
03-10-2006, 05:34 AM
BTW, I did look some of this up.....from jun 9 thru jun18, Freel went 4-32. From aug 3 to aug 9, Freel was 0-19. Again, I freeely admit, that it is more my perception that cold ahrd stats, but I just recalled some periods last year when he looked lost at the plate. And again, I suppose ANY player has these stretches, but for me, getting OB (so he can steal) is about ALL Freel brings to a ballgame, so when he goes for a week without a hit, or almost two weeks with just 4 hits, that can be problematic....not awful, just not the guy some people on this board seem to want to fantisize Freel to be.

It may be true that Freel went 0-19 at the plate during a certain streatch last season. I don't know haven't checked.

I know that hitters do slump no matter who they are.

If given the chance to choose between Freel, Aurillia or Womack if all three were 0-19.. I'd take Freel.

He gets on base.


Ritchie and Tony going 0-19 most likely would add up to 38 outs. and 0 baserunners.

membengal
03-10-2006, 09:07 AM
Do any hitters in baseball completly avoid the occasional 0 for 19 stretch? I don't understand why players like Freel are held to a different standard.

Ravenlord
03-10-2006, 09:12 AM
Do any hitters in baseball completly avoid the occasional 0 for 19 stretch? I don't understand why players like Freel are held to a different standard.
cause he's not a wily vetran with valuable playoff experience.

if Adam Dunn goes 0-19, all you'll hear about is that he strikes out too much, even if he's only struck out once in that stretch. it'll also be ignored that he's probably walked 9 times in that stretch too. just like it is for Freel.

Rotater Cuff
03-10-2006, 09:57 AM
everyone needs to put things into perpective. It's Spring Training! nothing counts.
Before annointing Encarnacion, wait a few weeks.

Chip R
03-10-2006, 10:49 AM
Narron was actually complimentary towards Ed yesterday


Edwin Encarnacion has been a force offensively this spring and continued the hot hitting Thursday.

The Reds third baseman hit a two-run home run in his first at-bat against Pirates pitcher Ian Snell and now is batting .429 with a team-leading five homers and 12 RBI in seven games.

"He's definitely been locked in on offense," Narron said.

Encarnacion batted eighth in 36 of his 69 games with the Reds last season, but that's not necessarily where Narron sees the third baseman in the near future.

"I think he's going to be a middle-of-the-order guy," Narron said. "We're talking about a young kid. He's got some growing to do.

"The big thing is if he's going to be an RBI guy that's going to drive in the big runs there in the middle of the order. That's what we're going to have to find out."

flyer85
03-10-2006, 12:22 PM
"I think he's going to be a middle-of-the-order guy," I did notice the use of the future tense.

JinAZ
03-10-2006, 12:49 PM
Have you folks seen the comments in Marc's blog? People are actually *upset* with Edwin for hitting so many homers.
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/2006/03/here-we-go-again.asp

Amazing. Our one genuine big-league ready prospect, and they're upset because he's crushing mistake pitches. 'Cause the Reds really do score too many runs. We need more singles to the opposite field.
-JinAZ

SteelSD
03-10-2006, 12:56 PM
Steel, I think you are right......it is more my perception. Freel has overall really been very steady, just a couple of really bad months (.182 BA and .200 BA) in his approx 2 years playing pretty much more than half a year (in terms of AB's). I guess you can expect that out of most any batter.

But I will point out that his Fielding % as a 2B is not so great (.976) and it is abysmal as a 3B (.928).

By comparison, Aurilia is better at both positions.....with actually a far superior Zone Rating (.825 compared to just .796 for Freel). So if Aurilia is the statue that many say he is, Freel also is mounted in concrete.

Freel's ZR for 2005 (the only sample in which he pulled more than 10 Games Started at the position) at 2B was .837. His career ZR at 2B is negatively affected by small sample size inclusions from 2002 (6 GS) and 2003 (10 GS). In 2004 he put up a .870 ZR in 10 GS but just like 2002-2003, that's not the real Freel either. That being said, the real Freel IS rangier than the real Aurilia out there at 2B.


BTW, I did look some of this up.....from jun 9 thru jun18, Freel went 4-32. From aug 3 to aug 9, Freel was 0-19. Again, I freeely admit, that it is more my perception that cold ahrd stats, but I just recalled some periods last year when he looked lost at the plate. And again, I suppose ANY player has these stretches, but for me, getting OB (so he can steal) is about ALL Freel brings to a ballgame, so when he goes for a week without a hit, or almost two weeks with just 4 hits, that can be problematic....not awful, just not the guy some people on this board seem to want to fantisize Freel to be.

OBP is more than just Base Hits. During the stretch you note (Aug. 3-9), Freel did go 0-for-19. But that five game stretch includes only three games in which he did not get on base and he did not fail to reach base in any two consecutive games during that span.

Oh, three OB events for 22 plate appearances isn't good, but he's no more prone to low Hit output streaks than is Rich Aurilia- who went two-for-21 from May 3rd to May 10th in 2005. Every player has streaks where they fail to reach base at a goodly clip for a short period. But Freel's plate discipline skills actually make him less prone to those streaks than Rich Aurilia.

And no one is "fantasizing" about who Ryan Freel is. He's neither a first tier offensive or defensive Second Baseman. But he is a good sight better at the position than Rich Aurilia is or projects to be- and it goes deeper than even pure OBP or Zone Rating.

KronoRed
03-10-2006, 02:43 PM
Have you folks seen the comments in Marc's blog? People are actually *upset* with Edwin for hitting so many homers.

Logic doesn't roost there, that's the banana phone squad online.

membengal
03-10-2006, 02:52 PM
Some of those comments are not even bright enough to qualify for banana phone level...

NJReds
03-10-2006, 03:49 PM
Don't know if anyone posted this yet.. from Marc's blog (which he does a great job with):

The Secret...
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/uploaded_images/DSCF1631-796633.JPG

Happened upon this bat during BP in the stadium and was struck dumb with awe. Felipe Lopez jogged by after his round and I pointed it out to him. "Edwin's using it," he said.

What? Could it be? The secret to Encarnacion's 1.764 OPS in seven spring games is D'Angelo's bat?

Alas, like Geraldo at Al Capone's vault, my theory was dashed when Edwin came in for BP. Asked by John Fay if the bat was the key to everything he had done so far, Edwin smiled.

"I only use it in BP."

jmcclain19
03-10-2006, 03:55 PM
Have you folks seen the comments in Marc's blog? People are actually *upset* with Edwin for hitting so many homers.
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/2006/03/here-we-go-again.asp

Amazing. Our one genuine big-league ready prospect, and they're upset because he's crushing mistake pitches. 'Cause the Reds really do score too many runs. We need more singles to the opposite field.
-JinAZ

Those people (prose14) lurk around here as Bad Fundamentals and the rest of his crew.

For some reason, he hates home runs.

I think maybe he was a pitcher when he was younger and got lit up like a christmas tree repeatedly?

Chip R
03-10-2006, 03:58 PM
Don't know if anyone posted this yet.. from Marc's blog (which he does a great job with):

The Secret...
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/uploaded_images/DSCF1631-796633.JPG

Happened upon this bat during BP in the stadium and was struck dumb with awe. Felipe Lopez jogged by after his round and I pointed it out to him. "Edwin's using it," he said.

What? Could it be? The secret to Encarnacion's 1.764 OPS in seven spring games is D'Angelo's bat?

Alas, like Geraldo at Al Capone's vault, my theory was dashed when Edwin came in for BP. Asked by John Fay if the bat was the key to everything he had done so far, Edwin smiled.

"I only use it in BP."

That's some first rate investigative reporting. ;)

westofyou
03-10-2006, 04:06 PM
For some reason, he hates home runs.

Yeah and he has a learning problem too.

On the subject of "pulling" the ball the Reds have 2 stories from their past that speak on both sides of that coin.

#1 is The Reds get George Quinn on loan from the Yankees, he was stuck behind Gehrig all through the 30's, a Casey like spray hitter, very good.

Of course the Reds wanted to make him pull the ball and sock it out (Charlie Dressen) was all over him all spring and really screwed him up, so bad that he was sent back.

He said Dressen ruined his season and his chance to finally get out of Newark.

On the otherside of the coin was the Reds attempt to make Hank Sauer a spray hitter, whne that failed he was sent to the Cubs and was the premier HR hitter in the NL during the early 50's. He claimed that Buckey Walters and Warren Giles screwed him up trying to get him to change his approach.

traderumor
03-10-2006, 04:14 PM
Those people (prose14) lurk around here as Bad Fundamentals and the rest of his crew.

For some reason, he hates home runs.

I think maybe he was a pitcher when he was younger and got lit up like a christmas tree repeatedly?I thnk it may be BF yelling at EE for "yanking it to left." I remember him attempting to post that same garbage around here. My mental picture is this guy:
http://www.rob-clarkson.com/duff-brewery/barney/07.gif

Superdude
03-10-2006, 07:36 PM
Every time EE hits a homer, you can find Prose14 on the reds.com forum bashing him for hitting it to left field! Go check it out.

westofyou
03-10-2006, 07:38 PM
Go check it out.

Or lay in a kiddie pool full of battery acid for the same results.

Red Heeler
03-10-2006, 09:36 PM
Yeah and he has a learning problem too.

On the subject of "pulling" the ball the Reds have 2 stories from their past that speak on both sides of that coin.

#1 is The Reds get George Quinn on loan from the Yankees, he was stuck behind Gehrig all through the 30's, a Casey like spray hitter, very good.

Of course the Reds wanted to make him pull the ball and sock it out (Charlie Dressen) was all over him all spring and really screwed him up, so bad that he was sent back.

He said Dressen ruined his season and his chance to finally get out of Newark.

On the otherside of the coin was the Reds attempt to make Hank Sauer a spray hitter, whne that failed he was sent to the Cubs and was the premier HR hitter in the NL during the early 50's. He claimed that Buckey Walters and Warren Giles screwed him up trying to get him to change his approach.

More recently, Sweet Lou tried to get Paul O'Neill to be more of a pull hitter so that he would hit more home runs. I firmly believe that Pinella had as much to do with O'Neill for Roberto (ne Bobby) Kelley as Jimbo.