On Rich Aurilia, Tony Womack and the RedsZone Whipping Boy du Jour [Archive] - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Boss-Hog

03-08-2006, 08:27 PM

All,

I ask for a moment of your time to remind everyone about one of the founding rules of the board:

Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Speaking as someone who reads this site for enjoyment, it's gotten terribly out of hand the amount of insults, jabs, and such that the aforementioned players receive. In particular, I think it's silly the amount of times we've had a perfectly acceptable baseball topic - completely unrelated to said players - and a poster has single-handledly managed to remind everyone that Rich Aurilia and Tony Womack suck. Personally, I'm tired of seeing this because a). it's happening with increased regularly with topics that have absolutely nothing to do with either of these players, and b). I think it detracts from what this board was founded on and still prides itself on: intelligent baseball discussion.

By no means am I an apologist for either of these players, particularly Womack. Feel free to read past posts of mine, if you don't believe me. Trading for Tony Womack, let alone potentially making him your every day second baseman boggles my mind. IMO, it was a silly move by a man who is thankfully no longer the Reds' GM. However, whether you, I, or anyone likes it, what's done is done, and unfortunately, there's little that you or I can do to change that fact until he is released.

Am I saying you can't be critical when the inevitable occurs and the above players (or anyone else who takes on this role) stinks it up? No, of course not. You're more than welcome to be "intelligently critical" and I'll probably be one of the first to join you. But what I am tired of seeing is things like Tony Womack making a single out and the chorus immediately starts: "Why did we trade for him again?", "Why don't we get rid of him?" and so forth. As is often the case, most of this repeatedly comes from the same handful of posters. However, as I mentioned above, I'm especially tired of seeing this in threads completely unrelated to either of these players. Just as the rule states, you are more than welcome to be critical without beating a subject or players to death, as has definitely been the case here lately.

Mario-Rijo

03-08-2006, 10:10 PM

I 2nd that. I come on here for the intelligent conversation and when I see post after post on Womack/Aurilia in general I ask myself don't we have more interesting things to discuss, let alone a raggin' on someone thread. Frankly it just grows old and boring.

Johnny Footstool

03-09-2006, 12:10 AM

That's what happens when the offseason has been extremely dry and real games don't start for another month.

KronoRed

03-09-2006, 02:03 AM

Grr.. ;)

I shall abide :)

dougdirt

03-09-2006, 03:55 AM

Rich Aurilia isnt so bad.... but I do agree that some threads have been overrun with the "he knows how to play the game" stuff sometimes. Good post.

Ron Madden

03-09-2006, 05:09 AM

I saw a thread with both Aurila and Womack in the title and came here loaded for bear...

nevermind. :evil:

remdog

03-09-2006, 05:37 AM

Thanks for posting that Boss. I'm glad to see someone here recognizes that it makes the board less interesting to read.

However, it's been going on for a long time going back to names like Jimmy Haynes, Bob Boone, et al. The continual use of demeaning, trite nicknames (BaBoone, Jimmahy) by folks who thought it was clever was particularly juvenile and lowered the board to the leval of two 10 year olds trying to insult each other and coming up with nothing better than 'your mama wears combat boots'.

Even the mods here have ignored the guideline as it refers to players and have remained silent. Thanks for bringing the subject to the forefront.

Rem

Wheelhouse

03-09-2006, 08:16 AM

Many thanks for the post---couldn't agree more.

SunDeck

03-09-2006, 08:26 AM

As usual, Boss has the spirit of the board in mind and an uncanny ability to notice when the reins need to be tugged.

RollyInRaleigh

03-09-2006, 09:23 AM

Thanks, Boss. Couldn't agree more.

traderumor

03-09-2006, 09:32 AM

Just as the rule states, you are more than welcome to be critical without beating a subject or players to death, as has definitely been the case here lately.:deadhorse

Emoticon added for effect :)

redsmetz

03-09-2006, 09:36 AM

It's been echoed already, but you pretty much wrote what I was thinking yesterday. As a newcomer, I was a bit dismayed because my son had spoken about this board glowingly and I was surprised after joining to find I knew one of the moderators.

My feeling on Womack is exactly what this poster stated - awful, unexplainable trade, but we're stuck with the guy (I doubt they're going to eat that salary) and until he's gone, he's our player (what's that LBJ said about some dictator? - he's an SOB, but he's our SOB!) and as long as he's on the Reds, I want him to do well. Likewise, I think Aurilia was a smart pickup if he can keep his mouth shut and just play.

Of course, no play ever wants to just sit (unless, of course, you're the famed "Bench me or trade me" Chico Ruiz!). Even Super pinch hitter Jacob Cruz would like to play more. I wouldn't want a player who wants to be out there as much as possible.

I look forward to seeing the board that many of you have spoken of.

joe

redsfan30

03-09-2006, 10:39 AM

Thank you so much, Boss! I've been posting less and less because it's just not fun when you have to read post after post about how bad Tony Womack is. And I'd throw Jerry Narron in there too. He makes one comment (tounge in cheek by the way) about Encarnacion striking out and he is automatically put on the chopping block by that same handful of posters you mentioned.

It brings the quality of the board down so much.

Thanks again!

Kc61

03-09-2006, 10:43 AM

I really agree with the Boss-Hog post. I have always found curious how these two guys have become the outlet for everyone's anger about the Reds performance. You would have thought the lightening rods would be pitchers.

westofyou

03-09-2006, 10:49 AM

You would have thought the lightening rods would be pitchers.Or a catchers strikeouts. ;)

vaticanplum

03-09-2006, 10:54 AM

I truly believe that a lot of this stems from the fact that "scrappy" is such a fun word to say.

But I will try to be good.

Heath

03-09-2006, 11:16 AM

All morning I've been wasting at work and I've trying to fix my computer screen. I can't seem to get the whole thread title to show up. I swear this thread should read "On Rich Aurilia, Tony Womack and the RedsZone Whipping Boy du Jour & Kiss Boss's Ring Day" ;)

Let's face it - the frustration level as fan to this franchise has reached to point of overflow. Its a natural event to vent one's frustration. Time after time we are so inundated with "coachspeak" that makes one gag. Then the obvious overstocking of veteran middle infielders while negelecting the pitching, well, I can understand people's viewpoints. This is a franchise that was once a proud franchise. We aren't as lucky as the posters on sonsofsamhorn.com or MattyMo's Card Board who have had a run of success over the past few years. Thankfully, we've had some things that have been positive over the past few months that do give us some hope that the future is bright and Cincinnati will return to its baseball glory.

And its not like anything that is presented is actually false. SABR-metrics and casual fans alike agree. We can't even MAKE this stuff up any better.

I think the message board system is a fantastic way to express view points that a person who is a fan of some type of entertainment or sport can come to and "vent". Clearly there are other important things in life than our favorite baseball teams' struggles. (See GAC's house, Sava's job struggles, and Krono who only posted 5 times on Friday, Feburary 3rd.-You ok, pal? ;) )

Fact of the matter is that this baseball club is not going to be good this year. On top of that, we are stuck with players who do not want to be involved in the process of making this franchise the best that they can be. They are simply past-their-prime hanger-on-ers who feel they are better than the franchise itself. And, some fans believe that is wrong.

I will concur that I was a part of the Aurilia/Womack debates. And, on occasion, my frustration boiled over to the point of a time where I vented my frustration to this board. If it has made someone else's time on this board unenjoyable, I offer my sincere apologies.

However, this ball club message board is heads above any Reds message board out there. In that general sense of "Well, I don't post here anymore", or, "Its not as good as it used to be" - that is one's choice and the "vets" of this board that I read and share thoughts with have never once said that this board is going down hill. This place is what you make of it. If you feel that this board isn't "what it used to be", maybe if your time allows more participation and you get to know some of the "rookies" the quality of this board in your mind might increase.

Just one's opinion, that's all.......

Oh by the way, I second Krono.

Hubba

03-09-2006, 12:15 PM

I have been here from the beginning and was about too leave because of all the negativity and rehashing the same old stuff. Another of my pet peeves is calling people stupid all the time. OK enough, That feels good to vent.:beerme:

03-09-2006, 02:44 PM

WMR

03-09-2006, 03:37 PM

WomacK

Or perhaps just become more subtle?? ;) :laugh:

vic715

03-09-2006, 03:59 PM

What I didn't understand was why people on this board supposing to be knowledgable about baseball were knocking Womack before he ever put on the uniform.And why They still choose to Knock Aurilia who performed pretty well I thought was outright amazing.This team stunk most of last year do to lousy pitching and not because of Rich Aurilia.
I for one don't post alot but I do read Redszone about everyday and it has been a great avenue of info, and it keeps me up with news on the Reds.
Thanks Boss for slowing down the unessessary smack on certain players.

CrackerJack

03-09-2006, 04:12 PM

I'm all for this, thank you for recognizing the problem.

The jokes just aren't funny anymore and we all know everyone thinks they suck. Ya think people could move on at some point. I hope they do.

westofyou

03-09-2006, 04:13 PM

What I didn't understand was why people on this board supposing to be knowledgable about baseball were knocking Womack before he ever put on the uniform.

For the same reason they complained when the Reds signed Deion again, or when they brought in Terry Pendelton to play in front of Willie Greene, or when Dante Bichette was aquired,not to mention any on the wrong side of 35 vet that wondered into camp looking to avoid long mornings of nothing to do in the coming summer.

One mans knowledge is another mans shackles I guess, as for the "heat" a player takes here it's no worse than they take at BP, The Pin Striped Bible, Baseball Musings, Hard Ball Times or any site that has fanatics about their team or the game.

When Candy Cummings was on the Reds briefly in 1877 he was on the downward spiral of a career that was marked by being the oy gy who could twirl a curve. In short he stunk and the Enquirer tore him a new one every time he stepped in the box, they were merciless.

His 5-14 record and 4 plus ERA found him leaving town in the middle of the year, mostly to get away from the din of the angry mob that lingerd after his starts.

KronoRed

03-09-2006, 05:25 PM

What I didn't understand was why people on this board supposing to be knowledgable about baseball were knocking Womack before he ever put on the uniform.And why They still choose to Knock Aurilia who performed pretty well I thought was outright amazing.This team stunk most of last year do to lousy pitching and not because of Rich Aurilia.

Womack has been a bad player all but 1 year of his entire career, it's not a stretch to see it as a bad pickup, and Aurilia was ok at home but terrible on the road and bad in the field, again it's not a stretch to see it as a bad sign that better players might be headed to the bench for either of these two.

IMO of course.

Boss-Hog

03-09-2006, 06:04 PM

Yes, it's obvious to most of us (including myself) that trading for Womack was a bad move before he evens puts on a Reds' uniform. The vast majority of the board would likely agree that Edwin Encarnarcion should be the every day third baseman over Rich Aurilia. That doesn't mean we should have to read the same thing ad nauseum seemingly every thread.

Falls City Beer

03-09-2006, 06:10 PM

While I generally don't join the choruses of animadversions toward Womack, I will say I certainly understand the frustrations of fans who have to deal with a re-run of the very same lineup that lost the Reds 89 games last season. Womack just happens to be the new face (basically the only new face). I don't rail on the fact that this club has a couple of mastoids attached to it (Womack/Aurilia) because, frankly, the club is missing a skeletal structure. So, just some advice to those who are frustrated: spread the hate around, there are plenty of targets.

Team Clark

03-09-2006, 07:01 PM

I do what Boss says cause he's the "Boss".

Caveat Emperor

03-09-2006, 08:22 PM

Boss,

I'm all for laying off WomacK and Aurilia a wee bit, but surely it's open season on Eric Milton every fifth day, right? Reds fans will burst into flames if they aren't allowed to vent that heat from their systems.

It was kinda like that South Park episode about spontaneous human combustion being caused by a buildup of methane gas that goes unreleased in the digestive system...

Anyway, I find the Milton jokes get more and more inventive each time he pitches -- I sincrely hope those don't go away!

Patrick Bateman

03-09-2006, 08:26 PM

I do what Boss says cause he's the "Boss".

I thought Tony Danza was the boss.

Gainesville Red

03-09-2006, 09:27 PM

paintmered

03-09-2006, 10:33 PM

Maybe we should split the two forums into four. Then we could make some sort of ratings system, I don't know, like reputation points or something. Maybe that would bring back more of the intelligent insights.

Kidding, just kidding.
;)

To the best board in all of the land!!:beerme: :drink:

I know you are kidding, but things did get REALLY bad around here last spring. It's better to nip this in the bud now before the team travels north and new posters find their way here. Otherwise we might be back to the days of "Player X sUCKzz".

TOBTTReds

03-09-2006, 10:33 PM

I think Boss-Hog sucks, you are terrible...for no specific reason;)

flyer85

03-09-2006, 10:44 PM

I promise I won't complain at all if the Reds acquire the second worst everyday offensive player in the majors in 2005 and stick him in the lineup.

I realize the theory is to balance the club. You have the worst pitcher you need to balance that out on the offensive side.

Gainesville Red

03-10-2006, 12:46 AM

I know you are kidding, but things did get REALLY bad around here last spring. It's better to nip this in the bud now before the team travels north and new posters find their way here. Otherwise we might be back to the days of "Player X sUCKzz".

I was absolutley, 100 percent kidding. I was here for the split, and am glad it took place. The board was a shadow of its former self for a while. For a period of time it was simply not fun to read. And baseball is supposed to be fun. Keep up the Reds Utopia that is Redszone, Mods. What ever you think is necessary is alright by me.

minus5

03-10-2006, 09:14 AM

Yes! Sorry but I'm glad, it was getting tiresome reading about Womack being scrappy and all that....the first 200 times was kind of funny but then....:rolleyes:

KoryMac5

03-10-2006, 09:14 AM

However, this ball club message board is heads above any Reds message board out there. In that general sense of "Well, I don't post here anymore", or, "Its not as good as it used to be" - that is one's choice and the "vets" of this board that I read and share thoughts with have never once said that this board is going down hill. This place is what you make of it. If you feel that this board isn't "what it used to be", maybe if your time allows more participation and you get to know some of the "rookies" the quality of this board in your mind might increase.

Just one's opinion, that's all.......

A lot of us rookies on this board have been Reds fans for 30yrs or even more and happen to stumble on this site. I love it and post every so often when I see a thread that I like. Usually if it's negative or red bashing I stay away because I love the reds period. But I do feel their is a need to express one opinion and vent frustration. With that being said instead of changing the individuals why not change the system and add an additional forum to the site where you can rip all the reds and mgmt you want or other teams etc.. Something like Bengals.com message board uses (smack talk). Just my opinion.

03-10-2006, 10:34 AM

What I didn't understand was why people on this board supposing to be knowledgable about baseball were knocking Womack before he ever put on the uniform.

I'd say that part of being knowledgable about baseball would be knowing something about players and their histories. Tony Womack's been around for close to a decade. He's not a mystery.

flyer85

03-10-2006, 11:26 AM

Tony Womack's been around for close to a decade. He's not a mystery.The Reds considering giving him an everyday job is "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."

RFS62

03-10-2006, 11:49 AM

The Reds considering giving him an everyday job is "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."

I would add one phrase to that quote.....

"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma and soaked in beer."

Team Clark

03-10-2006, 05:21 PM

I thought Tony Danza was the boss.

He was the Boss, but Boss is the Boss! :laugh:

redsfanmia

03-10-2006, 07:35 PM

I agree with the whole lets stop bashing Womack and Aurillia sentiment but do we have to have such apple polishing? It was about time to stop the bashing but not everyone has to go to such extremes saying what a great idea it was and what great timing, its almost comical.

Redsland

03-11-2006, 12:14 AM

If we can't discuss the players on our 40-man roster who stink, this board's bandwidth problems will become a very distant memory, indeed.

Some may be tired of the Milton jokes. Or the Womack jokes. Or the Aurilia jokes. Or the jokes about Pena's glove. Or the jokes about Freel's value coming off the bench. Or the jokes about the second base "contest." Or the jokes about EdE's likelihood of winning the third base "contest." Or the jokes about the Casey trade. Or the jokes about the vestiges of the Reitsma trade. Or waistlines, or the next Tom Seaver, or binders, or coachspeak, or smallball. But I'm not tired of any of them. What I'm tired of is having to put up with the lot of them and more every single year. And if we can't be permitted to have some fun and laugh at these ridiculous topics, I for one may shoot somebody.

I respect you greatly, Boss, and this is your board, but I don't see a problem here. What I see is a team that actively sought out and acquired an expensive, old, redundant player at the bottom of his game, and I see a manager who states daily that he likes said player, and I see a gaggle of journalists who report daily on the manager's level of thrilledness with said turd. I've got a problem with that state of affairs, as do many other people. I find the factual statements to that effect from the Steel's and so forth instructive, and I find the quips to that effect from the pedro's and so forth entertaining.

Topical. Instructive. Entertaining. I'm not seeing a problem.

(Respectfully submitted)

remdog

03-11-2006, 11:07 AM

westofyou

03-11-2006, 11:20 AM

One mans trash is another mans treasure.

WMR

03-11-2006, 12:39 PM

http://www.dinf.ne.jp/doc/english/global/david/dwe001/dwe001g/dwe00138g02.gif

flyer85

03-11-2006, 01:49 PM

http://www.dinf.ne.jp/doc/english/global/david/dwe001/dwe001g/dwe00138g02.gif
supposedly one man's garbage is another man's treasure.

How do we tell the difference?

Hubba

03-11-2006, 04:30 PM

supposedly one man's garbage is another man's treasure.

How do we tell the difference?You're not going to give up are you.

Chip R

03-11-2006, 04:53 PM

I'm no fan of either one of these players and God knows I've done my fair share of bashing of both of them. But even before Boss started this thread I got the feeling that the Womack bashing hs been becoming excessive. No one's saying you can't criticize a player but we don't need three to five seperate threads about how a certain player sucks. There's a difference between just criticism and excessive criticism. If you don't feel that way, turn it around and see if you would feel that excessive criticism of Dunn or Jr. or Lopez is necessary. Lord knows I hate to agree with rem but I think he's right here. It doesn't make it right just becasuse it's Aurilia or Womack or Milton are the ones being picked on. Every board I've been on has had a whipping boy every year. And that's fine if the criticism is deserved but there comes a point where it's a turn off. Not everyone feels the same way about things on here. No matter how strange it seems, there are people here who believe Womack and Aurilia are valuable members of the team. I think the excessive bashing may keep some of them from participating in the discussion because they are afraid of getting shouted down and made fun of. Perhaps if they were to join in the discussion in hopes of getting into a meaningful dialogue, they could learn a thing or two.

Danny Serafini

03-11-2006, 06:53 PM

remdog

03-11-2006, 08:37 PM

Lord knows I hate to agree with rem but....

What!?! :shocked:

:evil:

Rem

SteelSD

03-11-2006, 11:23 PM

Redsland:

It's called :deadhorse and it gets old, trite, annoying, tiresome, hackneyed and a whole lot of other words that I'm not allowed to post here.

The point is that once you state your case here it's on record and you've made your point. There's no need to go on and on making inane, insulting statements; especially when they serve to take a thread completely off topic.

Rem

Just an FYI- 31% of your posts this month on the baseball boards have been complaints about the behavior of other posters.

As a frame of reference, 13% of my posts on the baseball side this month have been in reference to Tony Womack. 100% of those posts can be found in threads with the word "Womack" in the title.

In the past 30 days, we've seen eight threads started by eight different posters with the word "Womack" in the title. Now let's do a post search for the words "Womack sucks" for the past 30 days (all posted on or after 3/02/06, BTW). We find...

1. This thread
2. A thread with the name "Womack" in the title
3. A thread reporting on ST where Womack is a subject in the first post
4. A thread with the name "Womack" in the title
5. A thread beginning with an article Tony Womack is mentioned
6. A thread beginning with an article in which Tony Womack is mentioned

If you're keeping track, that makes eight threads in which the name "Womack" is in the title and an additional three threads in which Tony Womack is at least part of the thread creator's original topic by way of observation of quote. That's 11 threads in which Tony Womack is a major topic player in the past 30 days. Actually, the earliest post in the list dates back to 2/15/06, meaning that we've seen 11 Tony Womack topic threads in the last 25 days- an average of one Womack topic every 2.27 days. And those are just the threads I tracked using "Womack" in the title or "Womack sucks" in the thread text (and the "sucks" isn't always in reference to Womack, BTW).

Now what does that all mean?

Well, first it means that folks like to start threads including bad players as topics because they want to talk about bad players. Now, in the case of threads with bad players as topics, I'd suggest that folks either consolidate if they can but, to be honest, if the topic is truly redundant then consolidation is well within the power of Redszone Mods and that hasn't happened. Other than that, the vast majority of negative commentary about bad players has stayed on-topic in threads created with that topic at least partially in mind and/or threads in which bad players could reasonably be discussed without taking the thread off-topic.

Secondly, it's a commentary that some folks flock to certain topics like moths to a flame. Sometimes the flame is pitching. Sometimes it's strikeouts. Sometimes it's bad offensive players. Sometimes it's a perceived opportunity to comment on other the behavior of others.

But let's be clear- everyone has at least one "flame".

But we're smart moths. There are big flashing neon signs above our flames positioned as threads on the board. If we don't know what those signs read before entering a thread, we sure should know after getting close enough to look at the first post.

My read on what Boss posted here is that if you're going to comment on something then channel it to the appropriate venue. That's good advice and I'd suggest we all take it. Even you.

Heath

03-11-2006, 11:39 PM

Just an FYI- 31% of your posts this month on the baseball boards have been complaints about the behavior of other posters.

As a frame of reference, 13% of my posts on the baseball side this month have been in reference to Tony Womack. 100% of those posts can be found in threads with the word "Womack" in the title.

In the past 30 days, we've seen eight threads started by eight different posters with the word "Womack" in the title. Now let's do a post search for the words "Womack sucks" for the past 30 days (all posted on or after 3/02/06, BTW). We find...

1. This thread
2. A thread with the name "Womack" in the title
3. A thread reporting on ST where Womack is a subject in the first post
4. A thread with the name "Womack" in the title
5. A thread beginning with an article Tony Womack is mentioned
6. A thread beginning with an article in which Tony Womack is mentioned

If you're keeping track, that makes eight threads in which the name "Womack" is in the title and an additional three threads in which Tony Womack is at least part of the thread creator's original topic by way of observation of quote. That's 11 threads in which Tony Womack is a major topic player in the past 30 days. Actually, the earliest post in the list dates back to 2/15/06, meaning that we've seen 11 Tony Womack topic threads in the last 25 days- an average of one Womack topic every 2.27 days. And those are just the threads I tracked using "Womack" in the title or "Womack sucks" in the thread text (and the "sucks" isn't always in reference to Womack, BTW).

Now what does that all mean?

Well, first it means that folks like to start threads including bad players as topics because they want to talk about bad players. Now, in the case of threads with bad players as topics, I'd suggest that folks either consolidate if they can but, to be honest, if the topic is truly redundant then consolidation is well within the power of Redszone Mods and that hasn't happened. Other than that, the vast majority of negative commentary about bad players has stayed on-topic in threads created with that topic at least partially in mind and/or threads in which bad players could reasonably be discussed without taking the thread off-topic.

Secondly, it's a commentary that some folks flock to certain topics like moths to a flame. Sometimes the flame is pitching. Sometimes it's strikeouts. Sometimes it's bad offensive players. Sometimes it's a perceived opportunity to comment on other the behavior of others.

But let's be clear- everyone has at least one "flame".

But we're smart moths. There are big flashing neon signs above our flames positioned as threads on the board. If we don't know what those signs read before entering a thread, we sure should know after getting close enough to look at the first post.

My read on what Boss posted here is that if you're going to comment on something then channel it to the appropriate venue. That's good advice and I'd suggest we all take it. Even you.

Good work Steel - way to use SABR-metrics to dissect the value over replacement of "Womack Sucks" on the RedsZone.com message board. ;) :D

I'm so proud of you. I need a Kleenex.

KronoRed

03-11-2006, 11:41 PM

http://www.uab.edu/images/imedpub/Kleenex.jpg

Heath

03-11-2006, 11:45 PM

http://www.uab.edu/images/imedpub/Kleenex.jpg

Thanks, but we use the ones with the lotion. Softer on the little noses I've got running around here.

KronoRed

03-11-2006, 11:46 PM

Ahh..I understand
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000532ME.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

:D

redsfan30

03-11-2006, 11:48 PM

The thing that most upsets me is the fact that I have to think long and hard about opening certain threads knowing that somebody has probably already brought out the "he sucks" aspect.

Case in point, the Paul Wilson thread about being sick and tired of being injured. You just knew that all the responses to the articles would be along the lines of he sucks, just do us all a favor and retire and sure enough, that's what all the replys were based on. That's not good for the board if someone won't open a topic they know will eventually (if it already hasn't been) hijacked by Tony Womack/Rich Aurilia/Jerry Narron bashing.

I can't stand it when a managerial move is made that someone doesn't agree with and the manager is thereafter labled "stupid." Joe Torre could come in here tomorrow and if he makes one bad move he's a moron. How does that add to the quality of the board?

Sorry for the rant....just had to get some of that stuff off my chest.

Falls City Beer

03-11-2006, 11:57 PM

WMR

03-12-2006, 12:25 AM

we fans have been defecated on for 6 straight seasons

The Reds are a great team...

http://press.comedycentral.com/images/press/gallery/h/commies/triumph.jpg

... FOR ME TO POOP ON!!

harangatang

03-12-2006, 01:16 AM

SteelSD

03-12-2006, 01:27 AM

The thing that most upsets me is the fact that I have to think long and hard about opening certain threads knowing that somebody has probably already brought out the "he sucks" aspect.

Then don't open threads you don't think you'd be interested in.

Or, if you do open a thread and you don't agree with that which is posted therin, produce a viable contrary case.

Pretty simple really.

Caveat Emperor

03-12-2006, 04:24 AM

The problem isn't so much saying that Tony Womack stinks, it's the fact that seemingly every single thread, no matter how unrelated, winds up with some comment about how Tony Womack stinks. It's overkill, and it starts choking the life out of other conversations that, up to that point, had been interesting. Just keep it in its place instead of infecting half the threads on the board with it.

Ahh, but given time, it'll turn into a running gag, and that's when the real fun happens...

See:
* GICP ("Ground Into Casey Play")
* "Scrappy"
* The patented "Loathing" of Joe Randa's signing

All of this stuff progresses in stages -- give everyone around here a few weeks of thinking and all of the Wo-hate will be translated into something more amusing.

Or, if you really hate the Wo-bashing, start doing a little policing and neg the people who you see as being overly critical. That's the point of the reputation system (at least I thought): a little bit of self-policing on things that bring the quality of the board down and positive reinforcement on the things that make the quality of the board go up.

Let people know when you think they've crossed the line.

pedro

03-12-2006, 05:08 AM

Tony Womack stole my milk money.

GAC

03-12-2006, 05:15 AM

Look. When the Reds stop sucking, the criticisms will stop. But we fans have been defecated on for 6 straight seasons. We want answers. Not promises. Not Paul Wilson. Not Tony Womack. Not Rich Aurilia.

And honestly, I really agree with Redsland take on it: if you've got a novel way to poke fun at the worst NL franchise of the last 6 seasons, then why not? Personally, I find the puns and jabs of a guy like Redsland way more interesting than the "maybe we can finish third" threads that we see on here. When you're in the sewer you joke about turds, not bone china plates and silver salvers.

I thoroughly agree FCB.

I think the only solution is to address the situation like we did with the religious/political discussions, and create a separate Womack/Aurilia forum over on ochre's board. ;)

I'm an Aurilia "apologist" though. Last year, besides the situation where he whined about playing time, I thought it was a good signing for $500,000, and this organization not having any surety at 2B/SS with Lark gone, Machado injured, and lingering uncertainty about Lopez (who was also recovering from a serious injury). Aurilia, statistically, had a pretty good year.

If this forum had existed in the 1980's we all would have had alot of fun with those Red rosters. :lol:

Raisor

03-12-2006, 07:27 AM

* "Scrappy"
.

I'm still waiting for my royality checks.

03-12-2006, 09:48 AM

See:
* GICP ("Ground Into Casey Play")
* "Scrappy"
* The patented "Loathing" of Joe Randa's signing

gO WomaKc!

Falls City Beer

03-12-2006, 09:53 AM

Tony Womack stole my milk money.

No. That was me. :lindner:

wheels

03-12-2006, 10:05 AM

Tony Womack stole my milk money.

He and the Dingoes.

....And then they ate some babies.

KronoRed

03-12-2006, 02:03 PM

No. That was me. :lindner:
I'm mocking you now FCB:cool:

westofyou

03-12-2006, 07:54 PM

This is part of a letter from a fan that was sent to Reds owner Andrew Stern in 1886.

"We are very glad to see you signing young players, and hope you will continue the good work, and get rid of the old stiffs and played out players.... Let the Bums and Lushers go."

GAC

03-12-2006, 08:06 PM

This is part of a letter from a fan that was sent to Reds owner Andrew Stern in 1886.

I am contunually impressed by you knowledge on baseball (Reds) history. I love reading stuff like this.

The game may evolve; but the fans never will. ;)

Jim

03-13-2006, 01:28 PM

Agreed Boss. Thanks for "cleaning up" the site. The season is almost ready to begin and it's time to get excited about our boys taking the field!!! Go Reds!

Puffy

03-15-2006, 05:47 PM

* The patented "Loathing" of Joe Randa's signing

©

Eric_Davis

03-16-2006, 07:20 PM

What is beating a subject to death?

When one person does it 20 times or when 20 people do it once?

WVRed

03-16-2006, 08:35 PM

What is beating a subject to death?

When one person does it 20 times or when 20 people do it once?

Pretty much the first one.

It became pretty popular on here during the EZBoard days when Drew Nelson bashed Pokey Reese pretty heavy. You could have a thread about the weather in Newport, and Drew would find a way to bring up Pokey.:devil:

remdog

03-16-2006, 10:21 PM

The weather in Newport is fine. Visability about 10 miles. No Drew in sight. :laugh:

Rem

RedEye

03-17-2006, 02:49 AM

However, it's been going on for a long time going back to names like Jimmy Haynes, Bob Boone, et al. The continual use of demeaning, trite nicknames (BaBoone, Jimmahy) by folks who thought it was clever was particularly juvenile and lowered the board to the leval of two 10 year olds trying to insult each other and coming up with nothing better than 'your mama wears combat boots'.

As the perpetrator of the Wayne Krivsky name poll some weeks back, I'm probably about as far from you on this issue as can be. In my book, the 'juvenile' or 'trite' nicknames you so deride here--indeed, the ability of on-line Reds fans to cultivate their own vocabulary for talking about the sport they love--are far from a place to draw the line. To me, this vocabulary and the way posts build on each other is the fun of this sort of thing.

Actually, I can't really see what is mean-spirited or childlike to have a little fun with the way a name sounds. 'BaBoone' as far as I can tell is based on the way his name sounds repetitive with those two 'B' sounds--and not necessarily derogatory in itself. 'Jimmahy' also seems to be based on the true difficulty one has when trying to say 'Jimmy Haynes' ten times fast. Both, I think, catchy and inspired moniker. This is, of course, not to mention that it is easier to have shorthand for names that take awhile to type.

While I agree that mean-spirited posts and posts that become redundant in their claims without expanding the conversation are to be kept an eye on, that doesn't mean we should curtail conversation to the point you imply. I, for one, love baseball because it reminds me I was 10 once... and with all the funny nicknames that come with that memory.

Raisor

03-18-2006, 06:45 AM

'Jimmahy' also seems to be based on the true difficulty one has when trying to say 'Jimmy Haynes' ten times fast.

Actually "Jimmah" is a SOUTH PARK rip.

As one of the ones that started it in chat, yes it's supposed to be mean spirited.

RedEye

03-18-2006, 06:11 PM

Oh... so it isn't "Jimmahy" but "Jimmah"... I get it. Well, in any case, let's remember that all SOUTH PARK's mean-spirited phrases have so many layers of sarcasm that they are best regarded with several layers of quotation marks around them. Not to mention that I like "Jimmahy" better even if it was a typo the first time...

After surviving lots of nicknames during my teen years, I think Haynes can probably handle it. And I think this forum can probably handle it as long as the use of such names is buttressed by intelligent baseball discussion from time to time. I for one like engaging with all types of Reds fans... both those who overanalyze statistics and those who hurl witty insults combined with overanalyzing statistics. ;)

Blimpie

03-21-2006, 02:31 PM

KoryMac5

03-24-2006, 12:51 PM

Can we add Milton's name to threads I am getting tired of.

03-24-2006, 01:35 PM

Can we add Milton's name to threads I am getting tired of.

You can.

But he pitches every fifth day and is signed for big money so I suggest you prepare yourself for him to be a frequent topic of conversation, good or bad.

Caveat Emperor

03-24-2006, 02:15 PM

You can.

But he pitches every fifth day and is signed for big money so I suggest you prepare yourself for him to be a frequent topic of conversation, good or bad.

His name can also be used as an adjective ("Man, he really Miltoned that up this inning"), a verb ("Dunn with the 3 run Milton in the 4th!") and an interjection ("Aww Milton! That's going to sting.").

pedro

03-24-2006, 02:18 PM

His season last year was the definition of "Milton"

UGLY.

http://www.suprmchaos.com/milton-berle_020662.jpg

westofyou

03-24-2006, 02:27 PM

Can we add Milton's name to threads I am getting tired of.
Strike his name from the records, from now on he gets the Prince treatment.

Just a symbol.

I nominate this.

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/whats_new/press_releases/images/charlie_brown.gif

pedro

03-24-2006, 02:29 PM

I like mine better

Caveat Emperor

03-24-2006, 02:38 PM

Strike his name from the records, from now on he gets the Prince treatment.

Just a symbol.

I nominate this.

I say we commission a portrait be done to hang in the GABP entryway of this shot...it's the classic "Milton" Pose, and would rival even Kennedy's famous pic:

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/cubs/burnitz426.jpg

The "slightly out of focus guy" doing the home run trot in the background sells it for me.

03-24-2006, 03:28 PM

I'm fond of this:

http://www.nas.com/c4m/deer_in_headlights.4.jpg

pedro

03-24-2006, 03:36 PM

don't player hate on my man chuck.

klw

03-27-2006, 05:02 PM

http://members.tripod.com/~swingin/behindthescenes/fordwhip.jpg

Whipping Boy de jour

Okay I give up. How do I add a picture?

Caveat Emperor

03-27-2006, 05:21 PM

Whipping Boy de jour

Okay I give up. How do I add a picture?

My favorite method is to go to http://www.imageshack.us and upload the file there. It spits out a URL for you that you can then access your image at.

Click the "Add Image" paste the imageshack URL into the popup box.

Saves RedsZone the bandwidth of an image.

klw

03-27-2006, 05:51 PM

yeah thank you. It worked alot easier once I found that "add image" link.

Boss-Hog

04-01-2006, 09:30 AM

This seemed to ease up for a few days after I originally posted this thread - but now, I'm noticing the Womack bashing as bad as ever. This is the final reminder I'm going to issue before we start taking action against those who refuse to stop beating a tired - and most importantly, irrelevant to most threads, subject to death. If you want to talk about what a poor decision it is that Tony Womack is likely to be our Opening Day second baseman, start a single new thread about it and I will likely join you there in voicing our displeasure about the decision. However, the player bashing in unrelated threads is going to stop.

tripleaaaron

04-06-2006, 06:48 PM

A new member of the site, but I can say this still: Good Post! These type of posts are the reason that I no longer visit other sites and chose redszone as my new site. The other sites are terribly filled with dissing their own team, a result of many years of struggle, I know, but unneeded. This is OUR team and even though we may not like the decisions made by the upper-management we must do our best to back their choices. (only two games in but the platoon has done well. )

Heath

04-06-2006, 07:26 PM

I say we commission a portrait be done to hang in the GABP entryway of this shot...it's the classic "Milton" Pose, and would rival even Kennedy's famous pic:

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/cubs/burnitz426.jpg

The "slightly out of focus guy" doing the home run trot in the background sells it for me.

I'm sorry - I had to take this picture and add it the "motivational part"

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/1601/ericmilton6it.jpg

Hubba

04-06-2006, 10:09 PM

RBA

04-07-2006, 02:50 PM

Add Brandon Phillips to your list. ;)

Casey_21

04-10-2006, 01:00 PM

Hey guys.. I was just thinking.. We all know how frustrated we can get over players at times, especially after a loss. Well I noticed on the Bengals boards, they have a board for Smack Talk. That may be a good idea to have something like that on here. That way, if people want to release their anger, they can go there and do it, without being negged, and if people dont want to read it, they dont have to. If people moan about players anywhere but there, they get a warning or neg. I dont know if it has been mentioned or not yet. Just a thought, though. Might work out pretty good, who knows.. :)

KronoRed

04-10-2006, 02:42 PM

Add Brandon Phillips to your list. ;)
He seems well loved :D

sigep529

04-19-2006, 11:22 AM

From Rotoworld.com
http://rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.asp?sport=MLB&majteam=CIN

Tony Womack - 2B - Reds

Tony Womack has started just one of the last six games.
The Reds are giving Brandon Phillips a look at second base and Womack appears to be in jeopardy of losing his roster spot when Ken Griffey Jr. returns from the DL. Apr. 19 - 10:23 am et

There's also a comment on Milton. They expect Milton to have a decent year overall... but they also say to expect a few more outings like last night's from time to time.

KronoRed

04-19-2006, 02:54 PM

So is Rotoworld guilty of bashing Womack?

;)

Caveat Emperor

04-19-2006, 04:21 PM

I'm just going to throw this out there and duck under the tomatos that will inevitably follow...

I think the Marty "bashing" (and I'm aware it's not really always bashing) has really gotten a bit out of hand. There's a level where it's amusing as a joke, but then there's another level where everything he's saying is getting torn apart.

I've engaged in my fair share of offenses, but I think it might be time to just let it lay for a while. I think bringing him up often, for better or worse, turns a lot of threads negative, and I think the bashing could have the effect of turning a lot of people who otherwise might become valuable contributing members to RedsZone off from the site (it's a bit of a bad vibe when even the announcer gets torn to shreads -- beyond the players on the field).

Like I said, I'm guilty as the next guy, but I'm going to try my best from now on to try and just keep a reasonable level on things (a joke here, a joke there), and I'd just like to see everyone do the same.

A little civility, perhaps? If you don't like what the man has to say, maybe sit on it a bit until he really says something worth going off on.

registerthis

04-19-2006, 05:41 PM

Thanks, CE, I agree 100% with this sentiment.

KoryMac5

04-19-2006, 05:46 PM

I actually have always liked Marty but I do feel he takes a different persona depending on who is in the booth with him. With Joe he is much more outspoken and critical than he is with Steve. I have XM now and I have listened to some of the other baseball announcers out there, believe me I will stick with Marty.

redsfan30

04-19-2006, 06:40 PM

Couldn't agree more. A simple comment Marty made during the game (and it's not a new revulation that he feels how he feels) took over the gamethread for about a 15 minute period and it was during the Reds comeback.

I'm sorry but can anyone explain to me how that doesn't bring the quality of this board down when 10 threads pop up a day on how "Marty sucks"?

membengal

04-19-2006, 08:51 PM

In fairness, what prompted a lot of that chatter was a newbie asking "what's everyone got against Marty". As luck would have it, many were willing to tell him.

Falls City Beer

04-19-2006, 08:54 PM

I'm on the fence about it, but I'll concede that my arguments against the Marty-bashing are basically selfish and non-philosophical: it cuts into the written PBP, making it difficult for us at work to follow the game.

Personally, if the board wants to start 50 million threads to bash Marty, fine--but I'd ask that it be limited on the game threads, if at all possible. My two pennies.

Chip R

04-19-2006, 09:14 PM

Couldn't agree more. A simple comment Marty made during the game (and it's not a new revulation that he feels how he feels) took over the gamethread for about a 15 minute period and it was during the Reds comeback.

I agree. I believe we should refrain from commenting about what Marty said or did not say or how he said it in game threads. We have a thread about that which is up to almost 400 posts in which everybody should feel free to comment. We had people coming into the game thread today that did not have the benefit of the radio or did not choose to have another window open to keep up with the score and situation wondering what was going on. I know it is going to be difficult but please try to keep comments about Marty to that particular thread. Also I believe we should try to post more information about the game in game threads instead of trying to be wise guys (and girls), and I am as guilty as anybody on that matter. I would rather have redundant information in the game thread i.e. score, outs, inning, situation than not having it at all. No one is saying you cannot make jokes and have a good time. But if you read several posts and do not see any game information, please post it if you are listening/watching. We have been averaging around 800 posts per game thread so far this year. A few more with updated scores is not going to hurt.

I'm sorry but can anyone explain to me how that doesn't bring the quality of this board down when 10 threads pop up a day on how "Marty sucks"?

I think you are exaggerating how many threads are popping up on a daily basis about Marty but your point about keeping it out of the game threads is a valid one.

KoryMac5

04-19-2006, 10:45 PM

remdog

04-19-2006, 11:24 PM

Personally, I like the anology of sitting in a bar with a bunch of friends taliking and bs-ing while the game is on the tube. That's why I don't understand why more people don't do exactly that in chat and leave the game thread for the particulars of the game. That way, people that want to check the situation of the game can do so without wadeing through all of the 'happy talk'.

Just a suggestion.

Rem

Heath

04-19-2006, 11:36 PM

We now have a minor league section to redszone I know I have mentioned this and a few others why not have a section to vent or talk smack so that when fans have an issue about players or management they can voice there opinion.

It's been suggested.

Someone had mentioned that it could be called "Frank Pastore's House of Blues"

;)

TeamCasey

04-20-2006, 06:27 AM

I enjoy the conversation on the game threads. Sometimes I watch a game and follow the thread at the same time. I skip over anything that doesn't interest me.

My only wish list item is for the wonderful folks that do play by play. Please toss an inning and score up occasionally. It helps on those days when you're trapped in the office. :) (and thank you for the PBP).

04-20-2006, 01:21 PM

I'm with FCB. We don't need multiple "Marty said ..." threads, but what the team's announcers say is part and parcel of the game threads.

Caveat Emperor

04-20-2006, 01:35 PM

I'm with FCB. We don't need multiple "Marty said ..." threads, but what the team's announcers say is part and parcel of the game threads.

I agree completely -- but, at the same time, I don't think it would kill ANY of us to just be a little more concious of the fact that we take Marty to the woodshed on a fairly regular basis. If Marty says something stupid, then that's fair game in a game thread -- but it doesn't need to be totally beaten to death.

Marty is a giant storm of negativity in the broadcast booth. Let's all strive not to be Marty.

dsmith421

04-20-2006, 02:02 PM

I'm with FCB. We don't need multiple "Marty said ..." threads, but what the team's announcers say is part and parcel of the game threads.

It really boils down to why you're on the game thread to begin with. I'm way out of market now, so I can't listen to or watch 95% of the games. I get my PBP from sportsline, so what I'm really looking for from RZ is the 'color' commentary. This includes comments on the weather, the radio and TV guys, specific non-boxscore things that happen during the game, comments made by John Fay or the other beat writers in the booth, etc. Discussion of those issues, I think, is fine.

Where the game threads have gotten off track is a ton of people treating like a chat room--writing one line posts, making ridiculous claims about specific players, etc.

I for one am going to advocate returning to the two game thread system, with the ORG thread having a designated PBP provider (a volunteer before the game). I know that the mods decided to merge the game threads a while ago, but this would definitely improve the experience for me.

Danny Serafini

04-20-2006, 02:57 PM

I've been staying out of the game threads lately because they're just too darn big. Who's going to sift through 800 posts? I don't remember them being super-sized like this in the past.

KronoRed

04-20-2006, 03:00 PM

I've been staying out of the game threads lately because they're just too darn big. Who's going to sift through 800 posts? I don't remember them being super-sized like this in the past.
It's contention, when it falls apart the game threads will go back to normal

Falls City Beer

04-20-2006, 03:06 PM

It's contention, when it falls apart the game threads will go back to normal

Yep.

Danny Serafini

04-20-2006, 03:24 PM

Maybe I'm just still in September mode, when the game threads contain about 17 posts. :laugh:

Heath

04-21-2006, 09:08 AM

It's contention, when it falls apart the game threads will go back to normal

around Memorial Day or later it gets a little less.

I bet 2004 was fun around here - at least until the 4th of July.

registerthis

04-21-2006, 11:24 AM

Maybe I'm just still in September mode, when the game threads contain about 17 posts. :laugh:

Frequently the "September Call-Ups Special."

Not a whole lot to get excited about when the games are being played by a team half-comprised of players brought up just so "we can see what they're capable of."

ochre

04-21-2006, 03:26 PM

Hey,

I haven't read this whole thread, and this may have been mentioned before, but have we voted on an exemption for Dave Williams bashing yet?

KronoRed

04-21-2006, 03:30 PM

Hey,

I haven't read this whole thread, and this may have been mentioned before, but have we voted on an exemption for Dave Williams bashing yet?
I think we need one, just for health reasons..it's not good to bottle that up

flynn78

04-22-2006, 03:11 PM

Claussen gives up HR to Bill "Reds Killer" Hall and a single to follow. Not looking good. 4-0 Brewers

flynn78

04-22-2006, 03:12 PM

Damian Miller 2-run HR 6-0 Brewers

flynn78

04-22-2006, 03:13 PM

Bush gets his turn and singles sharply to left.

reds44

04-22-2006, 07:39 PM

:laugh:

Did this turn into the gamethread?

KronoRed

04-22-2006, 11:51 PM

:laugh:

Did this turn into the gamethread?
The sucky pitching jumped threads ;)

Caveat Emperor

04-23-2006, 12:33 AM

The sucky pitching jumped threads ;)

One of Brandon Claussen's pitches landed here off the bat of a Prince Fielder. It created a cloud of awful when it landed that's contaminated this thread.

smith288

04-24-2006, 01:36 PM

Womack's gone...who replaces him? Or do we need one? (might I suggest that Womack deserved his status of whipping boy du jour)

KronoRed

04-24-2006, 03:41 PM

Womack's gone...who replaces him? Or do we need one? (might I suggest that Womack deserved his status of whipping boy du jour)
Dave Williams..STEP ON DOWN

smith288

04-24-2006, 04:17 PM

Dave Williams..STEP ON DOWN
Youre our next contestant on RZ Whipping Boy DuJour!!!! (insert hokie game show theme)

klw

04-24-2006, 05:23 PM

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0816710384.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipping_boy

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
In feudal times, a whipping boy was a boy of the same age but lower rank, raised with a prince or nobleman as a playmate, who was whipped in his place when the young nobleman -- too high in standing to be beaten by anyone below his father, who was often unavailable -- misbehaved or slacked in his studies, as a psychological 'indirect punishment'.
In modern times, the term "whipping boy" has come to mean a scapegoat, or something that is a frequent recipient of pain or punishment, including inanimate objects.