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pedro
03-14-2006, 04:06 PM
I was just watching the Yankees and Cards on ESPN and they showed the projected starting lineup for the 2006 Cardinals. Granted they have a really good rotation but they could have some real problems scoring runs this year, especially if Pujols, Rolen, and/or Edmonds get hurt.

Eckstein
Spivey
Pujols
Rolen
Edmonds
Encarnacion
Bigbie
Molina

Just seems that they should have done a little more to shore up the OF situation over the off season.

IslandRed
03-14-2006, 04:41 PM
Yep. Three terrific hitters in the middle, but the rest of them are just guys. If any of the big three are injured the lineup's nothing special.

Jocketty has a way of finding what his team needs when it needs it, though.

Spitball
03-14-2006, 04:50 PM
I was just watching the Yankees and Cards on ESPN and they showed the projected starting lineup for the 2006 Cardinals. Granted they have a really good rotation but they could have some real problems scoring runs this year, especially if Pujols, Rolen, and/or Edmonds get hurt.

Eckstein
Spivey
Pujols
Rolen
Edmonds
Encarnacion
Bigbie
Molina

Just seems that they should have done a little more to shore up the OF situation over the off season.

Frankly, I believe this is one of the reasons the Cardinals have been so successful in recent years. They have built around a core (Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen) and strong starting pitching. Then, they have paraded in spare parts to fill the corner outfield spots and second base.

Johnny Footstool
03-14-2006, 05:11 PM
They won the division last season with this lineup:

Eckstein
Walker/Taguchi
Pujols
Edmonds
Sanders
Grudzeilanek
Nunez
Molina

If Rolen is healthy, the offense is better this season than last season.

pedro
03-14-2006, 05:57 PM
They won the division last season with this lineup:

Eckstein
Walker/Taguchi
Pujols
Edmonds
Sanders
Grudzeilanek
Nunez
Molina

If Rolen is healthy, the offense is better this season than last season.

I don't know about that. While they've gotten younger, I don;t think they've gotten better.

IMO, they're worse at 3 positions (2b, RF, LF) than they were last year. I understand that sooner or later you have to cut bait on Sanders as he is getting a little long in the tooth and Walker was done, but really, they couldn't do better than Larry Bigbie to fill the hole in LF?

pedro
03-14-2006, 05:58 PM
Frankly, I believe this is one of the reasons the Cardinals have been so successful in recent years. They have built around a core (Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen) and strong starting pitching. Then, they have paraded in spare parts to fill the corner outfield spots and second base.

oh, I agree, I just think they did a pretty crappy job of picking out spare parts this year.

Doc. Scott
03-14-2006, 06:26 PM
Baseball Prospectus said the Cards' approach was a classic "Studs & Scrubs" setup. They wondered if maybe Walt Jocketty was into fantasy ball.

Sea Ray
03-14-2006, 11:55 PM
The whole issue is pitching. Will they replace Matt Morris and Ray King?

Ravenlord
03-15-2006, 12:00 AM
The whole issue is pitching. Will they replace Matt Morris and Ray King?
a very average starter and a better than average reliever. not only are they replaced, they're replaced by inhouse options who'll likely have better seasons than their predacessors.

Sea Ray
03-15-2006, 12:14 AM
a very average starter and a better than average reliever. not only are they replaced, they're replaced by inhouse options who'll likely have better seasons than their predacessors.

Morris did put up a lot of innings and win a lot of games. Time will tell whether they miss him or not but I wouldn't take lightly what he did for that franchise. As for Ray King, I'm sure our LH hitters feel better about the later innings now when we play the Cardinals

jmcclain19
03-15-2006, 12:22 AM
I think this is the year that Marquis & Suppan finally get their house of cards knocked down. Both are mediocre starters who've had good luck and winning teams behind them, sooner or later that gets exposed.

Reyes is a great young pitcher, but that injury history sure is scary. Hopefully he's not another USC power arm that is injury prone. Besides LaRussa loves vets too much to let Reyes start in front of Ponson

Luna could play Spivey right out of a job - but LaRussa is afflicted with Dave Miley disease so that is unlikely to happen.

OnBaseMachine
03-15-2006, 06:43 AM
Color me unimpressed with that lineup. Pujols is fantastic, Edmonds is great but is getting older, and who knows how Rolen will bounce back from major shoulder surgery. The rest don't do anything for me.

pedro
03-15-2006, 12:34 PM
My guess is that if Bigbie or Spivey tanks the Jockety will make a trade for someone more dependable by the all star break.

Chip R
03-15-2006, 12:57 PM
My guess is that if Bigbie or Spivey tanks the Jockety will make a trade for someone more dependable by the all star break.

Womack, baby!

KronoRed
03-15-2006, 12:59 PM
My guess is that if Bigbie or Spivey tanks the Jockety will make a trade for someone more dependable by the all star break.
Womack? Aurilia?

:devil:

Johnny Footstool
03-15-2006, 03:01 PM
IMO, they're worse at 3 positions (2b, RF, LF) than they were last year.

Bigbie is worse by far. No question there.

Spivey...well, it depends if you think the Cardinals will get the mediocre 2004 version or the awful 2005 version. The Cardinals only got a .703 OPS out of their second basemen last season, so Spivey is probably a push.

Encarnacion's OPS last season was identical to what the Cardinals got out of their left fielders, so that's a push at least.

I think a healthy Rolen will offset any loss of offense they suffer from Bigbie. Plus I'm sure they'll find some decent OF production somewhere.

PuffyPig
03-16-2006, 09:28 AM
a very average starter and a better than average reliever. not only are they replaced, they're replaced by inhouse options who'll likely have better seasons than their predacessors.

Morris threw about 200 innings and won 15 games. Few rookie pitchers come anywhere close to that mark. And Reyes has had difficulty pitching past 100 innings per season.

Now, if you want to talk about Ponson's chances, it's better. Look for him to open the season as the 5th starter anyway.

Ray KIng's no Wagner, but he was a pretty reliable LH reliever. He's ben replaced, not in-house, but by Rincon, who couldn't get my (RH) hitting grandma out. But he's reasonably effective vs. LH hitters, but it's hard to always ensure pitching matchups when you are that ineffective vs. certain hitters.

registerthis
03-16-2006, 09:40 AM
Morris threw about 200 innings and won 15 games. Few rookie pitchers come anywhere close to that mark. And Reyes has had difficulty pitching past 100 innings per season.

Yep, he may not be an ace, but he's more than serviceable. 192+ IP last year, 4.11 ERA and only 22 HRs in a park where the ball carries fairly well. Not irreplaceable, but certainly better than what some here are giving credit for.

remdog
03-16-2006, 01:59 PM
I'm not trying to change the tenor of the thread but the Cards are in a new park this year and it'll be interesting to see how it plays and if it has any effect on their team.

Rem

pedro
03-16-2006, 02:07 PM
I'm not trying to change the tenor of the thread but the Cards are in a new park this year and it'll be interesting to see how it plays and if it has any effect on their team.

Rem

looks like it's pretty deep in the alleys.

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/stl/images/ballpark/new_ballpark/581x565seating.gif

Spitball
03-16-2006, 03:46 PM
The whole issue is pitching. Will they replace Matt Morris and Ray King?

Dave Duncan does well turning the Sidney Ponsons of the world around, and Ricardo Rincon is a pretty good lefty specialist. I believe the Cards are still the best team in the Central and maybe the National League.

Sea Ray
03-19-2006, 01:16 PM
Dave Duncan does well turning the Sidney Ponsons of the world around, and Ricardo Rincon is a pretty good lefty specialist. I believe the Cards are still the best team in the Central and maybe the National League.

I wouldn't be too worried if I were a Cardinal fan, but the thing to look at is the pitching, not the starting lineup. How well this team does will hinge on the pitching questions I brought up, not so much their starting 8.

What struck me most in seeing the diagram of their new stadium is all the naming rights they sold. Cellular One, Ford and Coke to name a few. I'd love to know how much they're making on that. My guess is their marketing dept has kicked our butt as badly as the players have. Why can't that be a profit center for us as well?

jmcclain19
03-19-2006, 02:01 PM
Thought this would be as good a place as any to post this

Josh Hancock's line so far in Cardinals camp

5.1IP, 2H, 0BB, 5K, 0.00ERA

KronoRed
03-19-2006, 02:29 PM
The law of the land

All pitchers suck for the Reds

Bad pitchers do well for the Cards

Falls City Beer
03-19-2006, 03:22 PM
Thought this would be as good a place as any to post this

Josh Hancock's line so far in Cardinals camp

5.1IP, 2H, 0BB, 5K, 0.00ERA

Dude, you just know Allan Simpson will end up on some team's postseason roster.

GAC
03-19-2006, 08:02 PM
Thought this would be as good a place as any to post this

Josh Hancock's line so far in Cardinals camp

5.1IP, 2H, 0BB, 5K, 0.00ERA

Hey! We got Gosling, and his ERA over 16. ;)

Are the Cards more vulnerable this season? Maybe. But not in the Central division IMO. Unless they are hit with injuries, they'll make it into the post-season solely on their probabilities of winning the division again.

Who is really going to challenge them in the Central?

KearnsyEars
03-21-2006, 04:32 PM
What I am thinking, call me crazy. This is finally the year that Pujols goes down with some kind of fluke injury. I hope this doesn't happen but something tells me that he's due for it--ya know just to show us he is, well you know, human.

MattyHo4Life
03-21-2006, 05:07 PM
I wouldn't be too worried if I were a Cardinal fan, but the thing to look at is the pitching, not the starting lineup. How well this team does will hinge on the pitching questions I brought up, not so much their starting 8.

What struck me most in seeing the diagram of their new stadium is all the naming rights they sold. Cellular One, Ford and Coke to name a few. I'd love to know how much they're making on that. My guess is their marketing dept has kicked our butt as badly as the players have. Why can't that be a profit center for us as well?

They also did well on ticket sales. Every game is practically sold out. All that is available are single game tickets and standing room only. I bought tickets the day they went on sale, and ended up with standing room only.

MattyHo4Life
03-21-2006, 05:11 PM
The law of the land

All pitchers suck for the Reds

Bad pitchers do well for the Cards

Bad hitters do well for the Cards also. Tony Womack is a prime example. The Yankees thought he was a good player, because of the way he played in St. Louis.

BRM
03-21-2006, 05:13 PM
Bad hitters do well for the Cards also. Tony Womack is a prime example. The Yankees thought he was a good player, because of the way he played in St. Louis.

Want him back?

MattyHo4Life
03-21-2006, 05:17 PM
Want him back?

No thanks! :D

Spivey is the project this year.

BRM
03-21-2006, 05:25 PM
Spivey is the project this year.

He'll probably hit like it's 2002 all over again.

Johnny Footstool
03-21-2006, 05:43 PM
I'm thinking Cardinals will wind up acquiring Soriano if Spivey flops. They'll have to pay all of his salary, but they'll get him for mere prospects.

MattyHo4Life
03-22-2006, 07:02 AM
What I am thinking, call me crazy. This is finally the year that Pujols goes down with some kind of fluke injury. I hope this doesn't happen but something tells me that he's due for it--ya know just to show us he is, well you know, human.

Pujols has had injuries in the past such as his elbow and foot, but he has always played through his injuries. Even when he was told that it was a bad idea.

MattyHo4Life
03-22-2006, 07:12 AM
I'm thinking Cardinals will wind up acquiring Soriano if Spivey flops. They'll have to pay all of his salary, but they'll get him for mere prospects.

http://www.stlouissportsforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23290

OnBaseMachine
03-22-2006, 07:26 AM
I hope the Cards do trade for Soriano. Hopefully they give it up a couple top prospects and take on the overrated Soriano and his contract.

Wainwright or Reyes for Soriano sounds good to me.

PuffyPig
03-22-2006, 09:28 AM
Bad hitters do well for the Cards also. Tony Womack is a prime example. The Yankees thought he was a good player, because of the way he played in St. Louis.

Womack may have hit better for the Cards than before, but he was still a below average offensive player. That's the myth of Tony Womack. Even when he's good, he's not.

Johnny Footstool
03-22-2006, 09:34 AM
I hope the Cards do trade for Soriano. Hopefully they give it up a couple top prospects and take on the overrated Soriano and his contract.

Wainwright or Reyes for Soriano sounds good to me.

Actually, I think the Cardinals will wait until the Nats are desperate to deal him, then they'll step up and take over his entire contract for a decent (not great) prospect. The Nats will jump at the deal, and Wainwright and Reyes will stay in St. Louis.

BTW MattyMo, thanks for the link. I'm surprised there isn't more support for a Soriano deal, considering the alternatives (Spivey, Luna, Cruz, my little sister).

MattyHo4Life
03-22-2006, 03:28 PM
BTW MattyMo, thanks for the link. I'm surprised there isn't more support for a Soriano deal, considering the alternatives (Spivey, Luna, Cruz, my little sister).

I think that is mostly because of Soriano's attitude. I think that is also the reason that there wasn't as much excitement when the Cardinals signed Ponson.