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View Full Version : Dunn or Kearns to Boston?



reds44
03-16-2006, 05:16 PM
Can Mike Lowell still play? He has looked as if he cannot catch up to major-league fastballs, and the Sox front office is afraid it gave up four players and $18 million for two years of Beckett. Francona has insisted Lowell is simply pressing and trying to elevate the ball too early, but with Kevin Youkilis capable at first and third, the Sox are already scanning lists of first and third basemen. Clement looks very good, but if they can get an Adam Dunn or Austin Kearns, they may have to pay the price. This is a big, big deal right now.

Please no.

ochre
03-16-2006, 05:18 PM
Where is the quote from?

Red Leader
03-16-2006, 05:18 PM
Where would Kearns play in BOS? He's not a 1B or 3B.

and no way anyone gives up Adam Dunn for Matt Clement. Not even DanO.

KronoRed
03-16-2006, 05:22 PM
They have nothing we want.

pedro
03-16-2006, 05:23 PM
Where would Kearns play in BOS? He's not a 1B or 3B.

and no way anyone gives up Adam Dunn for Matt Clement. Not even DanO.


I'm sure Kearns could play 1st.

VI_RedsFan
03-16-2006, 05:24 PM
They have nothing we want.

What about Clement? Lester? Paplebon?

VI_RedsFan
03-16-2006, 05:27 PM
Where is the quote from?

Gammons...flyer just posted the same quote in a different thread and said that PG said it.

Red Leader
03-16-2006, 05:28 PM
What about Clement? Lester? Paplebon?

For Dunn, I'd need all 3 of them, and Boston wouldn't do it.

KronoRed
03-16-2006, 05:28 PM
Clement only in a trade for Milton

Lester, Paplebon, not for Dunn at least, unless they throw more in.

VI_RedsFan
03-16-2006, 05:28 PM
For Dunn, I'd need all 3 of them, and Boston wouldn't do it.

Yeah, me too. The BoSox would probably laugh at us though.

reds44
03-16-2006, 05:32 PM
Yeah sorry it was Gammons.

lollipopcurve
03-16-2006, 05:37 PM
Clement would be going to his 5th team in 8 years. And he's due $19 million over the next two years. Forget him. Gammons saying that he "looks very very good" is him auctioneering for his buddies in the Bosox baseball operations department. Come on, it's the fricking middle of spring training and Clement isn't going 5 innings yet.

Giving up Clement is "paying the price" for Adam Dunn? Incredibly ridiculous... But that's your big-market sense of entitlement, and PG's been buying into that for years now.

registerthis
03-16-2006, 05:41 PM
Clement would be going to his 5th team in 8 years. And he's due $19 million over the next two years. Forget him. Gammons saying that he "looks very very good" is him auctioneering for his buddies in the Bosox baseball operations department. Come on, it's the fricking middle of spring training and Clement isn't going 5 innings yet.

I seem to remember Hal McCoy saying the same thing about Milton. Gammons is far from unique.

M2
03-16-2006, 05:45 PM
I'd deal Kearns for Clement in a heartbeat, though the Reds would probably have to throw in Eric Milton to balance out the salaries.

klw
03-16-2006, 05:49 PM
How about Kearns, Milton, Aurilia for Clement, Delcarmen

Balances saleries, gives BoSox someone who can play 3rd, and throws in Kearns. Reds get improved starter, young live bullpen arm.

RedLegSuperStar
03-16-2006, 05:52 PM
Don't deal anyone unless there names are Milton, Womack, Rich Aurilia, David Weathers, or Kent Mercker then make a run for Zito in FA

Johnny Footstool
03-16-2006, 05:52 PM
How about Kearns, Milton, Aurelia for Clement, Delcarmen

Sounds pretty good.

pedro
03-16-2006, 05:53 PM
Save the mula and go after Zito in FA

good luck with that. I can't fathom any situation in which Barry Zito would agree to come to Cincinnati.

corkedbat
03-16-2006, 05:55 PM
I could care less what the BoSux thought. If they want Dunn, they'd have to give up Clement, Pablebon and Lester and take Milton. They could laugh all they want, but they'll laugh without AD. If I'm WK and teams keep asking for Dunn. I keep making outlandish demands until they stop asking or someone doesn't laugh and says yes. Where you really have a problem is if you deal AD to someone and they're still laughing afterward. If you deal Dunn and the other team isn't hurting to some serious extent, you didn't get enough.

I'd do Kearns and Milton for Clement in a heartbeat, but Boston won't.

lollipopcurve
03-16-2006, 05:56 PM
I'd deal Kearns for Clement in a heartbeat

No way. You want to spend $ on pitching, do it after 2006 -- the 2007 FA class looks good. Meanwhile, see if Kearns can turn it around. And if the Reds nosedive this year, we're looking at some very appealing arms at the top of the 2007 draft. (Price, Brackman and more)

RedLegSuperStar
03-16-2006, 06:00 PM
Kearns game as of now doesn't match his asking price. Just because his potential is rated above average he has yet to prove it. Not knocking him.. but if we hold on to him and he begins to play up to his potential then would you want him dealt? would you not get more in return if he in fact is healthy and playing well rather than coming off of a season where he was injured, sent down to louisville, with numbers such as: .240 18HR 67RBI 107K's(387AB)

Johnny Footstool
03-16-2006, 06:01 PM
And if the Reds nosedive this year, we're looking at some very appealing arms at the top of the 2007 draft. (Price, Brackman and more)

And by the time those arms are ready for the bigs, Dunn, Kearns, Pena, Lopez, and possibly even Encarnacion will be gone via free agency.

Make a deal now for a good starter like Clement, and suddenly Cincinnati becomes a more attractive destination for free agent pitchers.

RedLegSuperStar
03-16-2006, 06:07 PM
And by the time those arms are ready for the bigs, Dunn, Kearns, Pena, Lopez, and possibly even Encarnacion will be gone via free agency.

Make a deal now for a good starter like Clement, and suddenly Cincinnati becomes a more attractive destination for free agent pitchers.

Or an over priced haven of number 3's 4's and 5's

M2
03-16-2006, 06:18 PM
And by the time those arms are ready for the bigs, Dunn, Kearns, Pena, Lopez, and possibly even Encarnacion will be gone via free agency.

Make a deal now for a good starter like Clement, and suddenly Cincinnati becomes a more attractive destination for free agent pitchers.


Yep. Plus, if Kearns plays well and Clement pitches over the next two years, Clement's worth more on the trade market if the Reds need to cash in that talent in order to help seed the rebuilding. In the meantime, the club would expand its number of potentially capable starters to three, which would be a veritable bumper crop for the Reds.

reds44
03-16-2006, 06:33 PM
I find it funny that everyone is this board wants pitching, but nobody is willing to give up what it would take to get it.

MartyFan
03-16-2006, 06:38 PM
Gammons...flyer just posted the same quote in a different thread and said that PG said it.

Oh, then rest easy...Gammons said it.

I know the guy is a HOFer but he is a HOFer for reporting the game and what happened he is not a real reliable source for "rumors"...please don't neg me for this...just sayin!

Johnny Footstool
03-16-2006, 06:42 PM
Or an over priced haven of number 3's 4's and 5's

Which is what it is right now.

VI_RedsFan
03-16-2006, 07:20 PM
I find it funny that everyone is this board wants pitching, but nobody is willing to give up what it would take to get it.

I wholeheartedly agree reds44. As much as I love Kearns, I would do Kearns, Milton, and Aurilia for Clement and Delcarmen in a heartbeat just because we would be getting pitching, which we need A LOT more than offense. Denorfia would be replacing Kearns and he brings defense that could be either as good as Kearns's or maybe even better (plus he has more speed than Kearns). And also I think he could bring just as much bat at Austin could. As shown in the "Expendable" thread in ORG, Deno had the same OPS as Kearns in 2005, and he did it in a lot fewer at bats. You RedZoners need to realize that if we are going to get good pitching, we have to give up some of our offense to get it.

TeamBoone
03-16-2006, 07:21 PM
Kearns game as of now doesn't match his asking price. Just because his potential is rated above average he has yet to prove it. Not knocking him.. but if we hold on to him and he begins to play up to his potential then would you want him dealt? would you not get more in return if he in fact is healthy and playing well rather than coming off of a season where he was injured, sent down to louisville, with numbers such as: .240 18HR 67RBI 107K's(387AB)

He was not injured in 2005.

TeamBoone
03-16-2006, 07:23 PM
I find it funny that everyone is this board wants pitching, but nobody is willing to give up what it would take to get it.


For me, it's because the Reds need more that one decent pitcher to contend... they aren't going to get more than one this year (if they even get one). Thus, I really don't want to give up Adam Dunn for one pitcher in a year where one pitcher is not going to matter.

RedLegSuperStar
03-16-2006, 08:10 PM
I find it funny that everyone is this board wants pitching, but nobody is willing to give up what it would take to get it.


Well personally I don' like the fact Boston is so eager to deal Clement and Arroyo in almost every deal they are involved in. Gives off the sence to me that something is wrong with him and if i'm not mistaken his 2nd half stats arn't worth his 9-11 mil salary. We'll just be complaining come AS break to deal him much like Milton.

RedLegSuperStar
03-16-2006, 08:11 PM
He was not injured in 2005.

TB he didn't have that thumb issue last year?

traderumor
03-16-2006, 08:22 PM
For me, it's because the Reds need more that one decent pitcher to contend... they aren't going to get more than one this year (if they even get one). Thus, I really don't want to give up Adam Dunn for one pitcher in a year where one pitcher is not going to matter.I wouldn't trade Dunn if we were set to contend and were one pitcher away either. Not to mention the Reds just signed a contract that indicated they were not of a mind to trade him anytime soon.

VI_RedsFan
03-16-2006, 08:34 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not saying I want to trade Dunn for Clement. No way do I want to do that. A team needs to come with a good offer involving pitching before I give up Dunn. If the BoSox come with an offer of say...Clement, Paplebon, and Lester for Dunn, then it would be hard to say no to.

BenHayes
03-16-2006, 08:43 PM
here's a thought, do the kearns to BoSox for clement, pawn off milton to the twins with someone else added for Cain,inquire to Bucs about the availbilty of 1b-rf craig wilson.he can work with hattesburg at 1b and add insurance to the bench as well as free up j. valentin for some ph duty.

Heath
03-16-2006, 08:44 PM
Look, I can say No

No.

There, I did it.

WayneK can say No.

WayneK:No

Peter Gammons can investigate his sources instead of tossing darts at the dartboard labled "Players I Can Talk About Trading To Other Teams".

Well - that might be asking too much.

TeamBoone
03-16-2006, 09:08 PM
I wouldn't trade Dunn if we were set to contend and were one pitcher away either. Not to mention the Reds just signed a contract that indicated they were not of a mind to trade him anytime soon.

I agree. But do you remember what they did to Eddie Taubensee after they signed him? I was flabbergasted at the time.

I don't think they want to trade Adam though; not unless it was a slobberknocker.. and perhaps not even then, depending on the state of the team at the time.

cincyinco
03-17-2006, 02:46 AM
I wholeheartedly agree reds44. As much as I love Kearns, I would do Kearns, Milton, and Aurilia for Clement and Delcarmen in a heartbeat just because we would be getting pitching, which we need A LOT more than offense. Denorfia would be replacing Kearns and he brings defense that could be either as good as Kearns's or maybe even better (plus he has more speed than Kearns). And also I think he could bring just as much bat at Austin could. As shown in the "Expendable" thread in ORG, Deno had the same OPS as Kearns in 2005, and he did it in a lot fewer at bats. You RedZoners need to realize that if we are going to get good pitching, we have to give up some of our offense to get it.

I'm all for getting pitching.. whather that takes Dunn or Kearns to get it..

But my question to you is do you really think thank Clement is the type of pitcher we should target? I don't. Enough of mediocrity. We need a potential, near ready, number 1 type pitcher. Not clement.

RedLegSuperStar
03-17-2006, 05:51 AM
here's a thought, do the kearns to BoSox for clement, pawn off milton to the twins with someone else added for Cain,inquire to Bucs about the availbilty of 1b-rf craig wilson.he can work with hattesburg at 1b and add insurance to the bench as well as free up j. valentin for some ph duty.

Cain pitches for SanFran. Unless you are talking about Crain and either way the Twins laugh at us.

RedsBaron
03-17-2006, 07:50 AM
Giving up Clement is "paying the price" for Adam Dunn? Incredibly ridiculous... But that's your big-market sense of entitlement, and PG's been buying into that for years now.
I would be in favor of trading anyone for the right return, but the idea of trading away Adam Dunn for nothing more than Matt Clement is silly.

traderumor
03-17-2006, 07:53 AM
I agree. But do you remember what they did to Eddie Taubensee after they signed him? I was flabbergasted at the time.

I don't think they want to trade Adam though; not unless it was a slobberknocker.. and perhaps not even then, depending on the state of the team at the time.Yea, but that's Eddie Taubensee. This is Dunn we're talking about, two totally different levels of players and different in the type of deals you would involve them in.

OnBaseMachine
03-17-2006, 08:06 AM
Austin Kearns and Eric Milton for Jon Papelbon and PTBNL(Jeff Natale-signed on June 17, 2005, can't be traded until June 17 of 2006). I would most likely do that deal.

Jeff Natale-http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/N/jeff-natale.shtml

Jon Papelbon-http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/jon-papelbon.shtml

Johnny Footstool
03-17-2006, 10:28 AM
I would be in favor of trading anyone for the right return, but the idea of trading away Adam Dunn for nothing more than Matt Clement is silly.

I agree. But the deal most of us are talking about involves Austin Kearns for Matt Clement. I'd to that in a second, salary and all.

registerthis
03-17-2006, 10:38 AM
I agree. But the deal most of us are talking about involves Austin Kearns for Matt Clement. I'd to that in a second, salary and all.

As would I. If you wouldn't, you are tremendously over-valuing Austin Kearns.

blumj
03-17-2006, 10:44 AM
Austin Kearns and Eric Milton for Jon Papelbon and PTBNL(Jeff Natale-signed on June 17, 2005, can't be traded until June 17 of 2006). I would most likely do that deal.

Jeff Natale-http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/N/jeff-natale.shtml

Jon Papelbon-http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/jon-papelbon.shtml

I don't see why the Red Sox would make that deal. If the Reds had a 25 year old power pitcher, would you want them to trade him for someone like Kearns, much less have to take Milton, too?

Krusty
03-17-2006, 01:40 PM
Kearns for Clement?

That would be a tough one to make.

Krusty
03-17-2006, 01:42 PM
No way. You want to spend $ on pitching, do it after 2006 -- the 2007 FA class looks good. Meanwhile, see if Kearns can turn it around. And if the Reds nosedive this year, we're looking at some very appealing arms at the top of the 2007 draft. (Price, Brackman and more)

On the otherhand, if Kearns has another subpar season, he has no trade value.

Clement for Kearns would be a tough one. But if money isn't the stumbling block by new ownership, how don't you make this deal especially when the Reds need to upgrade the starting pitching?

MartyFan
03-17-2006, 02:07 PM
I would trade Kearns for Clement even up.

Clement if he comes in and fizzles can still be traded to a team with a larger park (seriously) and have a respectable go of it.

If Kearns has another bad year he is beginning to look like Brandon Larson.

We have too much depth in the OF to be so in love with "potential" when we need pitching.

lollipopcurve
03-17-2006, 02:13 PM
On the otherhand, if Kearns has another subpar season, he has no trade value.

Clement for Kearns would be a tough one. But if money isn't the stumbling block by new ownership, how don't you make this deal especially when the Reds need to upgrade the starting pitching?

I agree, it's not an easy call. Kearns could plummet or skyrocket. Clement could stay healthy and get more consistent and put up a few 200-inning, sub 4.00 ERA seasons. Or, his poor performance in the second half of 05 could be a harbinger of bad things to come. He could blow out his elbow and be worthless over the next couple of years (while he rakes in $19MM). To me, I go with the younger and cheaper player here. I'd be far more inclined to trade Kearns if it was a young starter with solid potential coming back -- Papelbon, for sure. In addition, I like the chances that if Kearns get back to hitting well the Reds can add him to their offensive core for years to come. He's local, and Dunn's best buddy. I like how that plays down the road. I also think it's important to remember that even if Kearns is average at the plate, he's still going to be a good defender in RF. Too often that gets left out of the equation, but it matters.

KronoRed
03-17-2006, 02:14 PM
I don't see Kearn's trade value getting any worse at this point.

M2
03-17-2006, 02:39 PM
I don't see Kearn's trade value getting any worse at this point.

If he repeats last season, or does a little worse, he'll fit into the Dustan Mohr category. Right now there's still something to dream on with Kearns. A forgettable season will erase that.

lollipopcurve
03-17-2006, 02:52 PM
If he repeats last season, or does a little worse, he'll fit into the Dustan Mohr category. Right now there's still something to dream on with Kearns. A forgettable season will erase that.

Very valid point. It boils down to how much faith you have in Kearns to tap back into those pre-Ray-King hitting skills.

deltachi8
03-17-2006, 03:40 PM
Sign me up for Kearns-Clement.

klw
03-17-2006, 03:48 PM
Boston is reportedly in the market for a backup catcher. What would you want back for Kearns and Valentin?

traderumor
03-17-2006, 03:56 PM
If Kearns has another bad year he is beginning to look like Brandon Larson.

Kearns limited success to date has already surpassed anything Brandon Larson ever accomplished. He's safe there ;)

RedsManRick
03-17-2006, 03:59 PM
Given that Mirabelli was a crap offensive player, trade Kearns and Sardihna for Clement and a prospect. Red Sox need to pay some salary though....

blumj
03-17-2006, 08:36 PM
Given that Mirabelli was a crap offensive player

Not that it makes any difference, but for a defensively solid backup catcher who can handle a knuckler?
Doug Mirabelli, career: .241/.328/.425
Jason LaRue, career: .243/.326/.421

pedro
03-17-2006, 08:40 PM
Not that it makes any difference, but for a defensively solid backup catcher who can handle a knuckler?
Doug Mirabelli, career: .241/.328/.425
Jason LaRue, career: .243/.326/.421


to be fair to Larue, Mirabelli has never been an every day player and he's 35.

Falls City Beer
03-17-2006, 08:42 PM
to be fair to Larue, Mirabelli has never been an every day player and he's 35.

Exactly. And Larue's not had the benefit of hitting in the crockpot of Fenway. Mirabelli's the very picture of inconsistent performance, plus, as pedro said, he's a part-timer.

blumj
03-17-2006, 09:01 PM
Of course, he's a backup catcher, but, for a backup catcher, he's pretty good offensively. That's all. If he was really good, he wouldn't be a backup.