PDA

View Full Version : Bailey good enough to start?



OnBaseMachine
03-18-2006, 07:59 AM
Bailey good enough to start?

Reds notebook

BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

DUNEDIN, Fla. - When Reds manager Jerry Narron was asked if left- vs. right-handers would be a factor in choosing between Justin Germano and Michael Gosling, he kept his answer simple.

"It doesn't matter," Narron said. "It's going to be the guy who we think has the best chance to get people out."

That led to the next logical question: What if you determine Homer Bailey has a better chance to get people out than Germano or Gosling?

"That's a good question," Narron said.

Narron said that sometimes, from where he sits, Bailey looks like the best choice when it comes to getting people out. And the Reds very well could have an opening in the rotation if Paul Wilson isn't ready when the season starts.

But that does not mean Bailey will get the nod.

"Sometimes you have to do what's best for the long haul, not the short term," Narron said.

Bailey, 19, the Reds' No. 1 draft pick in 2004, has pitched well so far in spring training. His ERA (3.86) is better than Germano's (4.85) and Gosling's (5.68).

But the Reds won't rush Bailey.

"We think Homer can be a great pitcher," Narron said. "Part of that process includes time in the minor leagues. Homer understands that."

Narron said Bailey has to work on putting hitters away. His stuff is so good that hitters tend to foul off a lot of pitches, which runs up Bailey's pitch count.

Bailey is pitching today in one of the split-squad games. The Reds want Bailey to get as many innings as possible.

"I'm very impressed (so far)," Narron said. "He doesn't look like a 19-year-old out there. He's very composed."

GRIFFEY ON WAY: With the United States eliminated from the World Baseball Classic, Ken Griffey Jr. will return to the Reds shortly.

Narron did not know exactly when. He doesn't expect Griffey to join the club today in Orlando, Fla.

"I don't know what the rules are," Narron said. "What did he get, 20 at-bats (in the WBC)? He's probably more ready than anyone we've got."

Griffey went 11-for-21 with three home runs and 10 RBI in the Classic.

Javier Valentin, who played for the Puerto Rican team, returned to the Ed Smith Complex Friday.

He'll play today against Pittsburgh.

MILTON UPDATE: Left-hander Eric Milton pitched six innings in a simulated game Friday. He allowed one run on five hits, walked none and struck out two.

Milton is coming back from a strained calf.

"He fielded a couple of bunts," general manager Wayne Krivsky said. "He had no problems."

The Reds will wait to see how Milton feels today before deciding when he can pitch in a game.

GREAT DANE: Valentin's return will mean a severe reduction in Dane Sardinha's playing time.

Sardinha has impressed Narron.

"I was very impressed with the way he received the baseball," Narron said. "He's a good catcher. He gets rid of the ball quick. The more I saw of him, the more I liked him."

Defense has never been a problem for Sardinha, the team's second-round pick in 2000.

And his offense?

"He hit some balls hard," Narron said.

Sardinha is hitting .250 for the spring after going 1-for-3 with two RBI Friday.

E-mail jfay@enquirer.com

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060318/SPT04/603180361/1071

OnBaseMachine
03-18-2006, 08:15 AM
Young pitchers battle for Reds' rotation spot
Germano sharp vs. Toronto; Gosling gets turn today
By Hal McCoy

Dayton Daily News

DUNEDIN, Fla. | The spectre of Paul Wilson not being ready to perform when the season opens leaves a line of question marks strung out across the Cincinnati Reds starting rotation.

While Wilson works diligently daily to strengthen his surgically repaired shoulder, there remains the main question: What if?

As of now, 17 days away from Opening Day, the alternatives are lefthanded Mike Gosling or righthanded Justin Germano.

Gosling and Germano both have limited major-league experience, but if Gosling is the guy it places four lefthanders in the rotation Brandon Claussen, Eric Milton, Dave Williams and Gosling.

If that's a problem, manager Jerry Narron is acknowledging it and all but says if a guy can dropkick the ball over the plate and retire major-league hitters, so be it.

"It doesn't matter to me," said Narron. "We'll take the guy who gets the most people out and can do the job. We're just looking for people to get hitters out and give us a chance to win."

Germano, 23, started Friday against the Toronto Blue Jays and was good, even better than Roy Halladay, who this week signed a $40 million three-year contract extension

Germano, hoping for a big-league contract at minimum wage, held the B-Jays to one run on six hits over four innings, walking none and striking out two, in a 9-2 win. The run was a home run by Eric Hinske, who homers against the best.

"That was my fault," said Germano. "I left a fastball over the plate and you can't do that to a hitter like him. I was happy with today, even though I'm still searching for command of my off-speed stuff.

"A chance to win a spot in the rotation is definitely in the back of my mind, but I don't want to add pressure and think if I don't pitch will I won't make the team."

Germano was acquired last July 23 from San Diego in the Joe Randa trade and was 3-2 with a 4.01 ERA in eight starts at Class AAA Louisville after he was 7-6 with a 3.70 ERA for Class AAA Portland before the trade.

His major-league experience is five starts and two relief appearances for the 2004 Padres 1-2, 8.86 ERA in 21 1/3 innings.

Gosling, 25, starts today in Bradenton against the Pittsburgh Pirates and so far this spring he is 1-0 with a 5.68 ERA over three appearances covering 6 1/3 innings. His major-league experience is 19 games, nine starts, for Arizona and he is 1-4 with a 4.53 ERA.

With the hunt for pitchers who can get hitters out, a question arose: How about Homer Bailey. He is only 19, but the team's No. 1 draft pick in 2004 has pitched this spring with the style and grace of a 29-year-old veteran.

And it hasn't escaped Narron's eye.

"It would be interesting to see what he would do with 34 major-league starts this year," said Narron. "But sometimes what is good for the long haul is better than for the short haul.

"One of the things I like about Homer is that he doesn't want to be in the big leagues now, he wants to be a great major-league pitcher later," Narron added. "He understands the process of pitching in the minor leagues to learn and get better."

While Narron sees greatness ahead in the 6-4, 205-pound righthander who was 8-4 with a 4.43 ERA in 21 starts and seven relief appearances last year for the Class A Dayton Dragons, he sees a learning curve, too.

"He has to learn to get ahead in the count and put guys away early," Narron said. "He throws a lot pitches because his stuff is so good batters can't square the ball on the bat and they foul off a lot of pitches.

"We want to give him the chance to be great, so we'll keep pitching him and do what's best for him," he added.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0318redsweb.html

redsmetz
03-18-2006, 08:51 AM
I think the current plan for Bailey is a good one - start him at Sarasota where the weather's warm and then move him up to AA when summer arrives. I don't believe we're going to make the play-offs this year. Let's bring him along.

Frankly, I'd like to see Ryan Wagner have a full year in the minors. We rushed him and I think he's been struggling to stay at that level. Give him the time he should have had. Some may disagree with that, but I'd like to slow him down a bit and give him the chance for greater success at the level he should be at.

StillFunkyB
03-18-2006, 09:24 AM
No need to rush HB.

I really hope the Reds FO feels the same way.

Heath
03-18-2006, 10:33 AM
He's not Felix Rodriguez. Let the kid play in the Minors.

Spring training does two things -

One - 6 weeks does not make a career.
Two - The hope of spring will turn into the rising tempatures of summer. Henceforth, as summer approaches, your ERA will also rise.

KoryMac5
03-18-2006, 11:57 AM
Let Bailey start the season in double A and call him up in Sept as a nice reward if he's made progress. Having Bailey start with the big club does nothing but rush him and put his arm under alot of stress something we as fans don't want to see.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2006, 11:59 AM
Bullpen?

traderumor
03-18-2006, 12:15 PM
I hope all the talk about Bailey from the Reds is just hype. He still should not even be considered for 2-3 more years, and that assuming he starts to dominate somewhere. To date, he has accomplished nothing.

dougdirt
03-18-2006, 12:49 PM
traderumor, to say he has accomplished nothing would be incorrect. I am sure he is a much better pitcher right now than he was a year ago. He had a good year in Dayton last year. He struck out 125 in 103 and gave up just 89 hits in 103 innings. He walked a lot of guys, and he needs to work on that. If he can cut down on the walks and maintain the same success everywhere else, watch out.

pedro
03-18-2006, 01:03 PM
It would be criminal to not keep the kid in the minors.

RedsBaron
03-18-2006, 01:17 PM
Homer should not apear in a major league game until at least this September, and probably not for another season or two. Take him along slowly.

traderumor
03-18-2006, 01:35 PM
traderumor, to say he has accomplished nothing would be incorrect. I am sure he is a much better pitcher right now than he was a year ago. He had a good year in Dayton last year. He struck out 125 in 103 and gave up just 89 hits in 103 innings. He walked a lot of guys, and he needs to work on that. If he can cut down on the walks and maintain the same success everywhere else, watch out.There is no way you can be sure of such a thing because you have no evidence to support the contention. Until his performance provides evidence that such is the case, his performance to date has been substandard for a high #1 pick. It is a nice hypothetical thought, but the evidence of the Reds picking the right guy is suspect, and even moreso the idea of a pitcher being developed in the Reds system is an oxymoron. Guys do not improve in the Cincy system, they get worse. And so far, Homer's performance is consistent with the Reds' draft and development of pitchers' track record. The only qualification I'll make is an accomplishment that M2 pointed out recently--he seems to be healthy.

icehole3
03-18-2006, 03:11 PM
Did anyone see the Reds special on Tom Seaver. Back in 1969, Gil Hodges took one look at his pitching staff in spring training and declared Seaver as one of his starter's, basically told him time to become a man. Seaver's response was Ok and the rest is history. I wish our manager had those type of nads.

pedro
03-18-2006, 03:26 PM
Did anyone see the Reds special on Tom Seaver. Back in 1969, Gil Hodges took one look at his pitching staff in spring training and declared Seaver as one of his starter's, basically told him time to become a man. Seaver's response was Ok and the rest is history. I wish our manager had those type of nads.


That's funny because Tom Seaver was 24 in 1969 and had already been in the majors for 2 years having won 32 games with an ERA under 2.70.

Now even if you mean 1967, not 1969. The comparison still doesn't wash because Seaver was 22 in 1967. Homer Bailey won't even be 20 for 2 more months and hasn't shown himself to be a Tom Seaver like talent up to this point in the minors. Why anyone would think of throwing him to the wolves at this point is beyond me.

dougdirt
03-18-2006, 03:26 PM
There is no way you can be sure of such a thing because you have no evidence to support the contention. Until his performance provides evidence that such is the case, his performance to date has been substandard for a high #1 pick. It is a nice hypothetical thought, but the evidence of the Reds picking the right guy is suspect, and even moreso the idea of a pitcher being developed in the Reds system is an oxymoron. Guys do not improve in the Cincy system, they get worse. And so far, Homer's performance is consistent with the Reds' draft and development of pitchers' track record. The only qualification I'll make is an accomplishment that M2 pointed out recently--he seems to be healthy.
Of course there is no way of knowing. Even if he had good numbers there would be no way of knowing. As for what has happened in the past having anything to do with Homer Bailey, I still dont buy into it. Homer Bailey is his own pitcher. I will go with todays outting for the Reds as a little example that he is better. 2 2/3 ip, 5 strike outs, no earned runs. Plenty of guys improve in the Reds system, most of them just arent pitchers. As far as Bailey being consistant with Reds other drafted pitchers, well he gives up few hits, hardly any home runs, strikes out a ton and gives up more walks than he should. I dont think Bailey fits anywhere along the lines of Reds past pitchers. As for todays game, it seems the Pirates are killing the ball against everyone except for Homer Bailey.

pedro
03-18-2006, 03:29 PM
Of course there is no way of knowing. Even if he had good numbers there would be no way of knowing. As for what has happened in the past having anything to do with Homer Bailey, I still dont buy into it. Homer Bailey is his own pitcher. I will go with todays outting for the Reds as a little example that he is better. 2 2/3 ip, 5 strike outs, no earned runs. Plenty of guys improve in the Reds system, most of them just arent pitchers. As far as Bailey being consistant with Reds other drafted pitchers, well he gives up few hits, hardly any home runs, strikes out a ton and gives up more walks than he should. I dont think Bailey fits anywhere along the lines of Reds past pitchers. As for todays game, it seems the Pirates are killing the ball against everyone except for Homer Bailey.


If Bailey is so great, send him to the minors and let him dominate which he hasn't been able to do yet. I see no point in wasting an arb year on a pitcher who hasn't even had sustained success in the minors yet.

dougdirt
03-18-2006, 03:30 PM
That's funny because Tom Seaver was 24 in 1969 and had already been in the majors for 2 years having won 32 games with an ERA under 2.70.

Now even if you mean 1967, not 1969. The comparison still doesn't wash because Seaver was 22 in 1967. Homer Bailey won't even be 20 for 2 more months and hasn't shown himself to be Tom Seaver like talent up to this point in the minors. Why anyone would think throwing him to the wolves at this point is beyond me.

Becuase this team is starved for pitching, and truthfully, Bailey may be one of the best 5 guys we have....not that it says to much, but if money and free agency werent coming into play, not to mention what could happen to his confidence, he would probably have a shot at cracking the rotation. When we are going to be running out Milton, Wilson and Williams at least 4 times a week for most of the year, it doesnt look fun so people are grasping for anything that looks promising as a starter.

dougdirt
03-18-2006, 03:31 PM
If Bailey is so great, send him to the minors and let him dominate which he hasn't been able to do yet. I see no point in wasting an arb year on a pitcher who hasn't even had sustained success in the minors yet.

Pedro, I think you misunderstood me. No way on Gods green earth is Homer Bailey stepping onto the mound of GABP anytime this year if its my choice.

pedro
03-18-2006, 03:33 PM
Becuase this team is starved for pitching, and truthfully, Bailey may be one of the best 5 guys we have....not that it says to much, but if money and free agency werent coming into play, not to mention what could happen to his confidence, he would probably have a shot at cracking the rotation. When we are going to be running out Milton, Wilson and Williams at least 4 times a week for most of the year, it doesnt look fun so people are grasping for anything that looks promising as a starter.


That's shows a real lack judgement IMO.

dougdirt
03-18-2006, 03:37 PM
I dont think Milton or Wilson are any better than Bailey is. I really think Bailey could have an ERA above 6.50 in the majors. He would probably strike out more and give up fewer hits. I also doubt he would give up home runs at the same rate as Milton. He has a problem walking guys though. Thats the only problem I see with him right now. Would I put him anywhere but Sarasota to start the year? No. Do I think he would fare better than Milton in Cincinnati, yes.

VI_RedsFan
03-18-2006, 03:40 PM
I think Bailey just gave up 5 runs against Pittsburg. Please put him in Sarasota or maybe Chattanooga, Kriv. Don't rush the best looking prospect we've ever had. He needs to work on his control before he gets even close to being in the bigs.

icehole3
03-18-2006, 03:45 PM
That's funny because Tom Seaver was 24 in 1969 and had already been in the majors for 2 years having won 32 games with an ERA under 2.70.

Now even if you mean 1967, not 1969. The comparison still doesn't wash because Seaver was 22 in 1967. Homer Bailey won't even be 20 for 2 more months and hasn't shown himself to be a Tom Seaver like talent up to this point in the minors. Why anyone would think of throwing him to the wolves at this point is beyond me.

Maybe it was 1967, he was talking about his rookie year...geez. Lighten up, I had a few adult beverages that night and you expect me to remember every word. My brain is old dude.

KoryMac5
03-18-2006, 03:46 PM
Bailey's runs were mostly unearned courtesy of a Kearns drop. Just read that on the game thread.

icehole3
03-18-2006, 03:47 PM
Bailey gave up 2 hits and 1 unearned run, 5 Ks.

membengal
03-18-2006, 03:48 PM
Who got tagged with runs 11 through 14 for Pittsburgh then?

KoryMac5
03-18-2006, 03:52 PM
Goose Gosling just got cooked for most of those.

membengal
03-18-2006, 03:55 PM
No, Gosling was out after the 10 run 1st. It's 15-1 now, so runs 11-15 were off of...who?

RedsManRick
03-18-2006, 04:01 PM
If Bailey has done anything, he's probably put himself in AA instead of high A ball. If goes out in AA and absolutely dominates, then bring him up for a cup of coffee.

But the fact of the matter is that 1 pitcher won't make this team a contender, there's A LOT to lose if he buckles, and there's no reason to start his arb clock.

Heath
03-18-2006, 04:03 PM
Standridge got absolutely obliterated all the way back to Louisville.

DanO has set this franchise back 10 years.

pedro
03-18-2006, 04:04 PM
Maybe it was 1967, he was talking about his rookie year...geez. Lighten up, I had a few adult beverages that night and you expect me to remember every word. My brain is old dude.

That's fine. I just find any comparison between Tom Seaver and Homer Bailey to be absolutely comical at this point.

anyway, to further my point. Look at Seaver's minor league stats from 1966.



Year Team Name League Age Org. Level W L ERA G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK h9 hr9 w9 k9 whip
1966 Jacksonville IL 21 Nym AAA 12 12 3.13 34 10 0 210.0 184 87 73 66 188 7.89 --- 2.83 8.06 1.19


I don't think it took too much "balls" for Hodges to run a 22 year old Seaver out there in 1967. He had a pretty good year at AAA in 1966. Better than Bailey, or any other Reds pitcher has done in the minors for as long as I can remember.If Bailey had this type of success in the minors I would be all for giving him a rotation spot.

VI_RedsFan
03-18-2006, 04:11 PM
Bailey gave up 2 hits and 1 unearned run, 5 Ks.

Oh...my bad.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2006, 04:44 PM
But the fact of the matter is that 1 pitcher won't make this team a contender, there's A LOT to lose if he buckles, and there's no reason to start his arb clock.


This team needs a bolt out of the blue more than any Reds' team I've witnessed. The risk of ruining Bailey is obviously high, but if he were to come up and be lights-out in the bullpen, I don't think you can put a price-tag on what that would mean for this club psychologically. If he can emerge as a K-Rod, then all of a sudden this team has its swagger back. This team needs SOMETHING to jolt it. And Bailey throws hard. No one in the entire organization throws harder.

It's my opinion that this team has nothing to lose at this point. They're lower than a snake's ass in a wagon trail.

Aronchis
03-18-2006, 05:34 PM
Lets be clear:
1)Homer Bailey is not major league material.....yet. You bring him up now, he would flame out before he hit May.
2)Homer Bailey appears to have a big arm
3)Homer Bailey "looks" to be ready to put a big year down in the minors. Comparing this years Bailey to last years, he looks much better.

Why take the high risk of ruining Bailey, a potential upper rotation pitcher AND his trade value by throwing him into the fire, in which he will be burned? Put the guy in high A. He should kick butt. If he is kicking butt at a high level into July, move him into AA then.

Maybe next year, right before Bailey turns 21, we can talk about Bailey and a outside shot at the rotation. Maybe Krivsky uses him in a trade. But lets cool it right now and let the kid build his value up. We aren't going to win a title this year with a green Bailey, whether we like it or not, winning isn't the objective this year(no matter what Cast says). Maybe not next year either. Getting is position to win is and we aren't in that position yet.

RedsUp
03-18-2006, 05:35 PM
Put Bailey with the Reds and you will see why he should not be there.

He lacks game experience and he's got to work on the defensive and mental aspect of the game. "Narron said Bailey has to work on putting hitters away. His stuff is so good that hitters tend to foul off a lot of pitches, which runs up Bailey's pitch count."

Beside, don't hitters tend to get a lot better as the season progress?

Sarasota is the best place for him, The Reds will be able to evaluate him better and, if it is in his best interest, they will move him up to AA. 2007 should be when we will be able to judge his real potential for the Majors.

icehole3
03-18-2006, 05:53 PM
"Narron said Bailey has to work on putting hitters away. His stuff is so good that hitters tend to foul off a lot of pitches, which runs up Bailey's pitch count."


The kid is learning fast, he struck out 5 in 2 and a third. I think you bring your best pitchers up north.

markymark69
03-18-2006, 05:59 PM
I agree with the majority on this thread. Even though the temptation to bring Bailey is growing greater by the day, he needs to start the season in Sarasota and then move up to Double A and let's see how he does there.

At this point, I would lean toward Germano. He has fared of late. Before the game, today I would have gone with Gosling, but suffice it to say, he pitched himself to Louisville today.

RedsUp
03-18-2006, 06:12 PM
The kid is learning fast, he struck out 5 in 2 and a third.

Against who? The bench team, intra-squad and the players that will end up in minor league for most of the batters he faced.


I think you bring your best pitchers up north.

Here I totally agree with you.

pedro
03-18-2006, 06:14 PM
The kid is learning fast, he struck out 5 in 2 and a third. I think you bring your best pitchers up north.

He wasn't exactly facing the NL all-stars out there. Scary how little that says about Standridge and Gosling though. They both sucked it up hard today.

I agree that it was a nice outing for Bailey but I think people need to put this in perspective. He's only 19 and he's only pitched about 6 innings thusfar this spring. I'm all for keeping in camp until they break to head north and continuing to give him opportunities in ST but honestly if the Reds are thinking of putting him the the rotation to start the year they need to let him get a little more exposure in ST to prove himself first.

RFS62
03-18-2006, 06:33 PM
Ever hear of David Clyde?

Leave him alone. Give him time.

IslandRed
03-18-2006, 06:48 PM
This team needs a bolt out of the blue more than any Reds' team I've witnessed. The risk of ruining Bailey is obviously high, but if he were to come up and be lights-out in the bullpen, I don't think you can put a price-tag on what that would mean for this club psychologically. If he can emerge as a K-Rod, then all of a sudden this team has its swagger back. This team needs SOMETHING to jolt it. And Bailey throws hard. No one in the entire organization throws harder.

It's my opinion that this team has nothing to lose at this point. They're lower than a snake's ass in a wagon trail.

Lots of ifs, and a great deal of risk, not just from a development standpoint but it would make him expensive a year earlier (assuming he's ever any good), which matters for a lower-revenue team because that's money that could be spent on something else. Now, if he's smoking AA hitters in July and we're a strong contender for a wild card, then the K-Rod card could be played. But if the payoff is finishing with 80 wins instead of 75? Not worth the year of service time.

TeamBoone
03-18-2006, 07:07 PM
Today, Bailey struck out Bautista, Wilson, Castillo, and two I'm not familiar with.

Not everyone he's faced are no-names.

That does not, however, mean that I think he should be brought to the big leagues. He's too young and still has a lot to learn... and his stamina needs to be developed slowly.

The worst thing the Res could do is promote him directly to the big leagues as that could potentially ruin what looks to be a promising career. They brought Wagner up way too early and he had four years in college vs Bailey being right out of HS... and look how well that's turned out.

ochre
03-18-2006, 08:34 PM
When considering rushing a young pitcher, please review:

Year Team Name League Age Org. Level W L ERA G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK h9 hr9 w9 k9 whip
1998 Greensboro SAL 20 Nyy A 6 7 2.28 20 20 3 1 0 118.1 86 42 30 7 32 116 1 6.54 0.53 2.43 8.82 1.00

RedsManRick
03-18-2006, 08:44 PM
When considering rushing a young pitcher, please review:

Year Team Name League Age Org. Level W L ERA G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK h9 hr9 w9 k9 whip
1998 Greensboro SAL 20 Nyy A 6 7 2.28 20 20 3 1 0 118.1 86 42 30 7 32 116 1 6.54 0.53 2.43 8.82 1.00

Brian Reith I assume?

westofyou
03-18-2006, 09:12 PM
Ever hear of David Clyde?Of course not.

Wonder why that is?

traderumor
03-18-2006, 09:26 PM
Of course there is no way of knowing. Even if he had good numbers there would be no way of knowing. As for what has happened in the past having anything to do with Homer Bailey, I still dont buy into it. Homer Bailey is his own pitcher. I will go with todays outting for the Reds as a little example that he is better. 2 2/3 ip, 5 strike outs, no earned runs. Plenty of guys improve in the Reds system, most of them just arent pitchers. As far as Bailey being consistant with Reds other drafted pitchers, well he gives up few hits, hardly any home runs, strikes out a ton and gives up more walks than he should. I dont think Bailey fits anywhere along the lines of Reds past pitchers. As for todays game, it seems the Pirates are killing the ball against everyone except for Homer Bailey.

Of course there's a way of knowing. It's called performance. It's called putting up a 2 something ERA in the lower level minors. It's called having a WHIP around or less than 1 and a K rate over 9, which is the one thing he has going for him thus far. If one wants to project him as a future #1, that is what he should have done at Dayton last year.

As far as "Homer Bailey is his own pitcher." Are you serious? An 18 year-old comes into a system and is his own pitcher? He is green and needs solid, developmental coaching, which the Reds have flunked that test time and time again. He fits exactly along the lines of failed high school arms that are part and parcel of the Reds pitching woes, which is why you treat him with kid gloves and hopefully some of the folks in the organization who were a part of the problem are gone. But to say he is somehow unique, I'm not seeing it based on a 4.43 ERA and 1.46 WHIP at low A.

This is a big year for him to establish himself, but so far, a bunch of partisan coaches bragging him up does not tell us a thing.

TC81190
03-18-2006, 09:44 PM
As much as it pains me to say this, and as much as I like Homer, I'm gonna go out on a limb and call this one a bust. Nothing special. At all.

jmcclain19
03-18-2006, 10:44 PM
Germano, hoping for a big-league contract at minimum wage, held the B-Jays to one run on six hits over four innings, walking none and striking out two, in a 9-2 win. The run was a home run by Eric Hinske, who homers against the best.

Sheesh Hal - have enough sappy self created mellowdrama in there?

membengal
03-18-2006, 10:48 PM
As much as it pains me to say this, and as much as I like Homer, I'm gonna go out on a limb and call this one a bust. Nothing special. At all.

Um, how do we have a sample size big enough to call him anything at this point? Either future all-star OR bust.

Perhaps we should allow the child to season a year or three before pronouncing him anything...

reds44
03-18-2006, 11:15 PM
If it comes down to Homer, Germano, and Gosling, I may be in the minority, but I am chosing Homer.

If he is preforming better then his competitors then I really don't think age should be a factor.

TOBTTReds
03-18-2006, 11:34 PM
If it comes down to Homer, Germano, and Gosling, I may be in the minority, but I am chosing Homer.

If he is preforming better then his competitors then I really don't think age should be a factor.

I love Homer, but I would have to go with Germano.

KoryMac5
03-18-2006, 11:52 PM
Germano hands down bring the kid up at the end of the year for a taste.

LoganBuck
03-18-2006, 11:53 PM
Germano, I can't believe we are even having this discussion. I love Bailey, and think he is a stud in the making. However rushing him is the absolute worst thing to do. Give him at least a season and a half. Why the rush all of a sudden? I know it is nice to have an actual prospect, but please please please, coddle thy pitchers!

dougdirt
03-19-2006, 12:11 AM
As far as "Homer Bailey is his own pitcher." Are you serious? An 18 year-old comes into a system and is his own pitcher? He is green and needs solid, developmental coaching, which the Reds have flunked that test time and time again. He fits exactly along the lines of failed high school arms that are part and parcel of the Reds pitching woes, which is why you treat him with kid gloves and hopefully some of the folks in the organization who were a part of the problem are gone. But to say he is somehow unique, I'm not seeing it based on a 4.43 ERA and 1.46 WHIP at low A.

Yeah I am serious. He isnt like anyone else in the system before him. He has his arm, he has different coaches. You cant lump him in with Howington or Gruler or anyone else for that matter. His Whip was high becuase of his walks. He had a very low hit rate and a very high strikeout rate. He made people miss. His problem was walking guys. That is what he needs work on.



This is a big year for him to establish himself, but so far, a bunch of partisan coaches bragging him up does not tell us a thing.

No it doesnt, but that 2 something era and 10 strikeouts in 7.1 innings does. It tells us that he has real good stuff.

traderumor
03-19-2006, 12:20 AM
Yeah I am serious. He isnt like anyone else in the system before him. He has his arm, he has different coaches. You cant lump him in with Howington or Gruler or anyone else for that matter. His Whip was high becuase of his walks. He had a very low hit rate and a very high strikeout rate. He made people miss. His problem was walking guys. That is what he needs work on.



No it doesnt, but that 2 something era and 10 strikeouts in 7.1 innings does. It tells us that he has real good stuff.Doug, you seem to know enough to not take ANY stock in 7-1/3 innings. If you like Bailey, fine, but don't try to sell any conclusions on something as insignificant as a few innings in ST. His current body of work is totally unimpressive, esp. for a high 1st rounder.

RedsUp
03-19-2006, 12:37 AM
Can someone please tell me what are his total stats at ST.

How many walks, wild pitches and HBP? Any errors?

I mean he's got a great K ratio and a low ERA but put against the rest of the stats is it still that much impressive?

TeamBoone
03-19-2006, 01:01 AM
If it comes down to Homer, Germano, and Gosling, I may be in the minority, but I am chosing Homer.

If he is preforming better then his competitors then I really don't think age should be a factor.

Do you want him for the short haul, or the long haul.

Age is a HUGE factor. Most guys haven't even stopped growing at his age... he'll end up damaged goods if he's brought up this early.

RedsIn07
03-19-2006, 01:04 AM
Homer's spring so far:

Player W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
H Bailey 0 0 2.45 4 0 0 0 0 0 7.1 9 6 2 0 0 3 10

Heath
03-19-2006, 01:40 AM
Homer's pitching his way to the 'Nooga.

What sucks is that his roommate might be Standridge.

George Foster
03-19-2006, 01:40 AM
It would be criminal to not keep the kid in the minors.

Why is it OK to let a star player out of High School, get his lumps in the NBA and its criminal to let a star baseball player do in in Major League baseball?

SirFelixCat
03-19-2006, 01:47 AM
Why is it OK to let a star player out of High School, get his lumps in the NBA and its criminal to let a star baseball player do in in Major League baseball?

Injuries, for one. apples to oranges. World of difference.

dougdirt
03-19-2006, 02:34 AM
Doug, you seem to know enough to not take ANY stock in 7-1/3 innings. If you like Bailey, fine, but don't try to sell any conclusions on something as insignificant as a few innings in ST. His current body of work is totally unimpressive, esp. for a high 1st rounder.

Im not puting any stock in it really other than the fact that he has good stuff, which I already knew. His current body of work is fine by me for now. He made people miss the pitches last year. If he can get a little more control, I think he will be just fine. He might not be facing the Yankees, but he isnt facing total scrubs either in ST.

harangatang
03-19-2006, 02:49 AM
Why is it OK to let a star player out of High School, get his lumps in the NBA and its criminal to let a star baseball player do in in Major League baseball?

There are a few instances where it is OK to let a few players in basketball jump ahead to the NBA because they are mature enough. Unfortunately since LeBron James came along now everyone thinks that all high school players are ready for the NBA. To compare basketball players to baseball players is absurd because most college baseball players aren't ready for the majors let alone high school players. How many baseball players or in this case starting pitchers can you name that have had sucessful careers let alone potential hall of fame careers with little or no development through the minors? A few examples of potential HOF's - Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson and do those pitchers have minor league development, absolutely. The minors is about further development of pitches, stamina, and of course the ability to get major league hitters for all pitchers, college and high school. High school pitchers have 4 years less experience then most college pitchers and even the most advanced college pitchers require at least 2 years of experience in the minors before they are successful at the major league level.

Revering4Blue
03-19-2006, 02:50 AM
Injuries, for one. apples to oranges. World of difference.

Yep.

The arbitration clock should also be a consideration here.

dsmith421
03-19-2006, 02:58 AM
I dont think Milton or Wilson are any better than Bailey is. I really think Bailey could have an ERA above 6.50 in the majors.

I realize it is a difference of degree, but remember when Jim Bowden decided Brian Reith was ready for a trial by fire? And seven bloodstained losses later his confidence was completely shot?

Reds fans and major league personnel would be best served by forgetting Homer Bailey exists until February 2008.

Revering4Blue
03-19-2006, 05:11 AM
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060318/SPT05/603180370/1027


Sarasota likely spot for Bailey
By Marc Lancaster
Post staff reporter

Zoom JIM OSBORN/The Post
Spring training hasn't really been boring for teenage pitcher Homer Bailey, who has seen higher-level hitters.
ADVERTISEMENT
RELATED STORIES

Pitcher's transition is tricky

DUNEDIN, Fla. - The temptation is there. That much, Jerry Narron won't bother to deny.

Musing before Friday's game about which pitcher might fill the void in the starting rotation if Paul Wilson isn't ready, Narron had this to say:

"It'll be the guy we think can get the most people out and give us the best chance to win," he said.

All indications are the job will go to Michael Gosling or Justin Germano. But at times this spring, Homer Bailey has looked far more dominant than either of them. Could the 19-year-old be the answer for 2006?

"It would be interesting to see if he had 35 starts in the major leagues this year, see what he would do," Narron admitted.

But it won't happen. As untouchable as Bailey looks at times, the reality is he's less than two years removed from high school competition and has a 4.42 career ERA in 34 minor league games, none above the low-Class A level.

Bailey is expected to begin this season at high-Class A Sarasota, and the Reds would be pleased if he made it up to Chattanooga at some point this year. As for reaching beyond that, Bailey will have to take his time.

"He competes extremely well, he's very composed," Narron acknowledged. "But he still has a long way to go to be a great pitcher. One thing from talking with him, he doesn't want to just make the major leagues, he wants to be a great major league pitcher. That's the kind of attitude you want. I think he understands a big part of that process will be in the minor leagues."

So, the precocious right-hander will pitch today in one of the Reds' split-squad games, getting one more crack at higher-level hitters. Narron said he wants the right-hander to go at least two or three innings this time out. After that, Bailey could very well be headed to minor league camp to continue that maturation process.

"Sometimes you have to do what's best for the long haul, not the short-term," Narron said.

SIMULATED SUCCESS - Reports were good on Eric Milton's simulated game in Sarasota.

The left-hander continued his recovery from a nagging right calf strain Friday by throwing 76 pitches over six innings under controlled conditions at the Reds' complex. According to general manager Wayne Krivsky, Milton allowed five hits and one run while striking out two.

Milton also got some practice at fielding his position, which has been the primary hang-up of his injury.

"He fielded some bunts, felt fine," said Krivsky. "Everything was positive."

How soon might Milton be available to return to Grapefruit League action?

"We'll see how he feels tomorrow," said Krivsky.


"Sometimes you have to do what's best for the long haul, not the short-term," Narron said.

Who are you, and what have you done with Jerry Narron?

traderumor
03-19-2006, 09:42 AM
Im not puting any stock in it really other than the fact that he has good stuff, which I already knew. His current body of work is fine by me for now. He made people miss the pitches last year. If he can get a little more control, I think he will be just fine. He might not be facing the Yankees, but he isnt facing total scrubs either in ST.
A lot more control. And his performance has not indicated that he has good stuff. It indicates that he can't put the ball where he wants to and that he throws hard. There are a lot of guys selling insurance that could say the same thing.

dougdirt
03-19-2006, 12:17 PM
Traderumor, have you ever seen him pitch? You dont strike out 125 guys in 103 innings if you dont have good stuff.

dmith, no way am I ever saying you should put him in Cincinnati anytime soon. I do think he would be better than Milton though.

pedro
03-19-2006, 12:23 PM
Traderumor, have you ever seen him pitch? You dont strike out 125 guys in 103 innings if you dont have good stuff.

dmith, no way am I ever saying you should put him in Cincinnati anytime soon. I do think he would be better than Milton though.

and you don't walk 5.38 batters per 9 innings and put up an ERA of 4.43 in single A ball if you're ready for the show either.

It's inconsequential at this point whether he'd be better than Milton or not at this point. There are any number of scrubs floating around the minors who would.

wheels
03-19-2006, 12:34 PM
He hasn't dominated low A yet, and everyone's thinking he's the second coming.

I don't care about his 97 MPH heat. If he doesn't put it to good use, he's useless.

He needs to get batters out at the lower levels, and he needs a third pitch, otherwise he's Brett Tomko.

I'm not saying he won't, but I am saying that he hasn't yet.

Show me.

dougdirt
03-19-2006, 12:35 PM
Where did I say he was ready for the big leagues?

wheels
03-19-2006, 12:52 PM
Where did I say he was ready for the big leagues?

Not you, but the articles that are implying such things.

I think you've made it clear that you don't think he should be in the bigs.

dougdirt
03-19-2006, 12:55 PM
I was more talking to pedro, who quoted me then said there is no way he is ready for the bigs.

Steve4192
03-19-2006, 01:39 PM
Don't rush the best looking prospect we've ever had.
Nah. That title already belongs to Ron 'True Creature' Robinson. ;)

However, in all seriousness, Don Gullett and Gary Nolan are probably the best pitching prospects the Reds have ever had. Not many guys come in an dominate MLB hitters less than one year after their HS graduation. Both Gullett and Nolan did exactly that. Homer is nowhere near their class.

buckshotrod
03-19-2006, 03:06 PM
Look at what he did yesterday...came in and did the job vs MLB hitters at the front end of the game. Heck, back in the "olden" days young kids came in and pitched. I am all for keeping him with the club the rest of the spring and see if he continues to pitch well. If he does, hey, maybe he turned the corner from last year and figured out a few things. Bodies do change, brains do make adjustments. If he is one of your best out of camp then you let him come along and continue to keep a close eye on him. The longer he hangs with the club in florida, the more talent he sees and the true answer will come to light. Just don't bring him for the wrong reasons.

tbball10
03-19-2006, 03:07 PM
i dont think he should start in cincy in '06 either but it is tempting, because he is better than most of our pitchers. i saw him pitch against pittsburgh, and he was awesome. he is going to be something really special, and i think it will be sooner than a lot of people think.

TeamBoone
03-19-2006, 04:10 PM
Maybe sooner than we think, but hopefully not sooner than he should be; if he's really good, it would be nice to have him around for awhile. If he's brought up too soon, he won't be.

traderumor
03-19-2006, 04:38 PM
Traderumor, have you ever seen him pitch? You dont strike out 125 guys in 103 innings if you dont have good stuff.

dmith, no way am I ever saying you should put him in Cincinnati anytime soon. I do think he would be better than Milton though.

Ah yes, the objective evidence says that Homer is a suspect more than a prospect, so now we go to the subjective "has stuff" and "have you seen him pitch." Luke Hudson supposedly had "stuff" too. He just didn't know where his "stuff" was going. And I saw him pitch.

See, that's the beauty of baseball--you don't need to have some special "eye" for talent to look at a minor league pitcher's numbers and make an initial evaluation of his performance. Right now, Homer has very little value either to the Reds or a potential trade partner because there is nothing other than the subjective "stuff" in his favor right now.

And here's the real challenge for you. Apparently, you have seen him pitch and I admittedly have not. Yet, just looking at his performance, I can tell you that he does not command of his pitches, which you acknowledge control is his achilles heel right now. So was I just a really good guesser?

As for the high K rate, I think I acknowledged in more than one post in this thread that is the one thing he has going for him. But a high K rate alone is not enough. Even A ball hitters showed that. Way too wild and way too hittable to be our stud in training.

But, hey, if someone buys into the hype machine that Narron and others have going full force, maybe we can get something useful in a trade. Otherwise, I guess we'll just keep on crossing our fingers that he figures out how to get control of his "stuff."

Caveat Emperor
03-19-2006, 04:39 PM
The bottom line, from where I sit, is this: if I'm a ballclub with serious financial considerations every season, the last thing I want is my #1 pick running his arbitration/free-agency clock learning how to be a ballplayer in the majors.

He could be better than all 5 starters the Reds plan to take North, but if he's going to live up to his hype, I want some DOMINATING years out of him as a memebr of the Reds, not just a few middling years and then reach his prime wearing some other uniform because he hit free agency before he finished developing.

Falls City Beer
03-19-2006, 04:42 PM
The bottom line, from where I sit, is this: if I'm a ballclub with serious financial considerations every season, the last thing I want is my #1 pick running his arbitration/free-agency clock learning how to be a ballplayer in the majors.

He could be better than all 5 starters the Reds plan to take North, but if he's going to live up to his hype, I want some DOMINATING years out of him as a memebr of the Reds, not just a few middling years and then reach his prime wearing some other uniform because he hit free agency before he finished developing.

I'd rather the Reds not sweat arb clocks at all if it means creating the best 25-man roster year in and year out.

But I don't want the Reds to start Bailey; that would be wack. I want them to bring him along a la Oswalt--out of the bullpen. This season, preferably.

buckshotrod
03-19-2006, 04:50 PM
Well, nobody has to worry about it now anyway as he was sent back to the minors camp today.

As for not knowing where it is going..Nuxhall said today during the broadcast he was very impressed with and the kid knew what he wanted to do with his pitches...ala 5 Ks in 2 innings. Also leads the team in Ks. I used to pitch and you don't do that w/o some form of command. Maybe it is a fluke this spring but there is such a thing as turning the corner over the winter. I hope he has but as my mother-in-law once said, "Hope in one hand and sh$# in the other then see which one fills up first."

flyer85
03-19-2006, 04:58 PM
Why is it OK to let a star player out of High School, get his lumps in the NBA and its criminal to let a star baseball player do in in Major League baseball?simple, the guys has pitched one season of pro ball in which he threw a little over 100 innings. He does not have the arm strength built up to pitch a major lrague season. Putting him in the majors is a recipe for an arm injury. He has neither the command or stamina to be effective at the majors yet.

Chip R
03-19-2006, 06:03 PM
Well, nobody has to worry about it now anyway as he was sent back to the minors camp today.

As for not knowing where it is going..Nuxhall said today during the broadcast he was very impressed with and the kid knew what he wanted to do with his pitches...ala 5 Ks in 2 innings. Also leads the team in Ks.

That is a dubious achievement on this squad. Sort of like being the best hockey player in Paraguay. We also have to remember that he is a 19 year old kid. Not only is he still developing physically but he is also developing mentally. WOY mentioned David Clyde earlier. One of the problems with Clyde is that he was partying too much. Who is Homer going to hang out with after games? I suppose he could stay in his hotel room and watch SpectraVision but would it not be better for him to be around people his own age for at least a few years? Someone asked about the difference between high school kids who go straight into the NBA and Homer. One difference is that of all the HS kids that get drafted, only a select few make it big. Some of the others were not talented enough or they started hanging out with the wrong crowd or they did not work hard enough or they got injured. I would rather see a 19 year old position player in the major leagues than a 19 year old pitcher. I fear that the organization is so hungry for pitching they are going to bring him north next spring and actually start him. I really would not mind them bringing him up for the last few weeks of the season this year but with the stipulation that he does not pitch. Of course that would mean putting him on the 40 man roster and start burning his options. I am not quite sure when he has to be on the 40 man roster but I would rather they not put him on there any sooner than they have to.

OnBaseMachine
03-19-2006, 08:44 PM
Bailey gets good gauge of progress
Former Reds top pick heads to Minors feeling good
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

SARASOTA, Fla. -- All Reds top pitching prospect Homer Bailey wanted from his first big league Spring Training was to see how well he stacked up against Major League hitters.

The answer: quite well.

Part of the latest round of roster cuts made Sunday, the 19-year-old Bailey can head to the Minor League clubhouse knowing he didn't squander any of his chances.

"I came here and, like Ray Charles said, 'Let it do what it do, baby,'" Bailey said Saturday about his performances this spring after he threw a strong 2 2/3 innings with five strikeouts against Pittsburgh.

In four games, totaling 7 1/3 innings, the Reds' 2004 first-round draft pick posted a 0-0 record and 2.45 ERA. He walked three and left camp leading the club with 10 strikeouts.

"I'm real happy he finished up with the outing he had [Saturday]," Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said. "I thought that was a real positive for him. I think it's a real good confidence builder for him as he heads back to Minor League camp to get ready for the season. You always like to see a young guy like that go out on a positive note."

With the fifth starter role up for grabs between Justin Germano and Michael Gosling in case Paul Wilson's shoulder isn't ready in April, Reds manager Jerry Narron said he was "looking for a guy who has the best chance to get the most people out."

This spring, that has been Bailey. But Narron knew taking the kid north was not an option, yet.

"Sometimes, you have to do what's best for the long haul and not short-term," Narron said.

Bailey, who will begin the regular season at high Class A Sarasota, was aware Saturday that he probably was headed out of camp.

"I know I still have to work things that I need to work on," he said. "Because of my age and lack of experience, I understand where they're coming from by putting me where they're going to put me. The best thing I can do right now is keep the right frame of mind and keep doing whatever it is I'm doing. Don't change anything."

On the move: Reliever and 2003 first-round pick Ryan Wagner entered Sunday having allowed just one base runner over his last six appearances. Wagner was 2-1 with a 3.86 ERA in seven games, totaling seven innings, this spring.

Names in the game: Former Reds great George Foster has been working with big-league and Minor League hitters since coming to camp as a guest instructor last week. Foster said he was trying to help young hitters and outfielders with their approach to the game.

What they're saying: "I have been very impressed with him. He does not look like a 19-year-old kid out there. He competes extremely well. He's very composed. He still has a long way to go. He doesn't want to just make the Major League team. He wants to be a great Major League pitcher." -- Narron, on Bailey

Mark Sheldon is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060319&content_id=1355894&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

westofyou
03-20-2006, 02:10 AM
Did anyone see the Reds special on Tom Seaver. Back in 1969, Gil Hodges took one look at his pitching staff in spring training and declared Seaver as one of his starter's

Seaver was a on the fence prospect when he was at JC, alot of scouts didn't like him, after JC he went to USC and got his motion together, that's when he became Tom Terrific big time pitching prospect, by the time Hodges ever saw Tom Seaver he was 22 years old and had pitched in a big time college program.

There's a world of difference from the age 18/19 to 22/23,
Here's the difference between what you can expect out of guys 21-22 and guys under 20.

Since 1945.



AGE <= 20
ERA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria



GAMES STARTED YEAR GS ERA SO/9 IP BB/9 IP RSAA AGE
1 Gary Nolan 1970 37 0.79 6.49 3.44 25 22
T2 Don Gullett 1973 30 0.16 6.04 2.72 -4 22
T2 Jeff Russell 1984 30 -.67 5.00 3.22 -8 22
4 Herm Wehmeier 1949 29 -.65 3.38 4.94 -19 22
5 Ross Grimsley 1972 28 0.40 3.60 2.28 2 22
6 Frank Pastore 1980 27 0.34 5.36 2.05 9 22
T7 Ross Grimsley 1971 26 -.10 3.74 2.40 -5 21
T7 Wayne Simpson 1970 26 1.04 6.09 4.14 23 21
9 Herm Wehmeier 1948 24 -1.92 3.43 4.59 -28 21
10 Ken Hunt 1961 22 0.06 4.96 4.37 3 22
11 Wayne Simpson 1971 21 -1.30 4.69 5.92 -19 22
12 Jim O'Toole 1959 19 -1.22 4.74 5.09 -14 22
T13 Jim Maloney 1962 17 0.42 8.22 5.17 6 22
T13 Kent Peterson 1948 17 -.64 4.20 3.88 -6 22
T13 Kent Peterson 1947 17 -.20 4.62 3.67 -9 21
T13 Buddy Lively 1947 17 -.62 3.80 4.61 -13 22
T13 Scott Scudder 1989 17 -.98 5.92 5.47 -9 21
18 Don Gullett 1972 16 -.48 6.40 2.87 -12 21
T19 John Roper 1994 15 -.28 4.99 2.93 -3 22
T19 John Roper 1993 15 -1.58 6.08 4.05 -14 21
T19 Jay Hook 1959 15 -1.18 4.22 4.44 -8 22
T19 Mike LaCoss 1978 15 -.92 2.91 4.31 -8 22
T19 Gary Nolan 1969 15 0.05 6.85 3.30 0 21
24 Jay Tibbs 1984 14 0.73 3.58 2.95 11 22
25 Tom Carroll 1974 13 -.06 4.27 5.08 -1 21
T26 Jim Maloney 1961 11 -.33 5.40 5.59 -2 21
T26 Billy McCool 1967 11 -.06 7.70 5.20 2 22
T28 Jeff Russell 1983 10 0.61 5.27 2.90 6 21
T28 Scott Scudder 1990 10 -1.10 5.27 3.77 -9 22
T28 Eddie Erautt 1947 10 -1.00 3.25 4.01 -18 22
31 Frank Pastore 1979 9 -.51 5.95 2.17 -7 21
T32 Tom Carroll 1975 7 -1.35 2.68 4.98 -7 22
T32 C.J. Nitkowski 1995 7 -1.94 5.01 4.18 -7 22
T32 Dennys Reyes 1998 7 -.19 10.24 6.28 -1 21
T35 Josh Hall 2003 5 -2.28 6.57 5.47 -6 22
T35 Bobby Ayala 1992 5 -.84 7.14 4.03 -3 22
T35 Ron Robinson 1984 5 0.87 5.45 2.95 5 22
T38 Sammy Ellis 1962 4 -2.81 8.68 9.32 -9 21
T38 Frank Smith 1950 4 0.28 5.44 3.86 5 22
T38 Elizardo Ramirez 2005 4 -4.23 3.63 4.03 -10 22
T38 Manny Sarmiento 1978 4 -.80 5.09 3.82 -10 22
T42 Curt Lyons 1996 3 -.28 7.88 3.94 0 21
T42 Milt Wilcox 1971 3 0.15 4.36 3.53 0 21
T44 Mario Soto 1978 1 1.08 6.50 6.50 2 21
T44 Dennys Reyes 1999 1 0.77 10.51 5.69 5 22
T44 Jim O'Toole 1958 1 2.67 5.14 6.43 2 21
T44 Mel Behney 1970 1 -.45 1.80 7.20 0 22
T44 Jay Hook 1958 1 -8.05 15.00 6.00 -3 21




GAMES STARTED YEAR GS ERA SO/9 IP BB/9 IP RSAA AGE
1 Gary Nolan 1967 32 0.80 8.17 2.46 27 19
2 Don Gullett 1971 31 0.83 4.42 2.64 16 20
3 Gary Nolan 1968 22 0.58 6.66 2.94 18 20
T4 Mario Soto 1977 10 -1.43 6.53 3.86 -10 20
T4 Jim Maloney 1960 10 -.88 6.75 5.20 -6 20
T6 Claude Osteen 1960 3 -1.30 2.81 5.63 -7 20
T6 Billy McCool 1964 3 1.11 8.80 2.93 12 19
T8 Milt Wilcox 1970 2 1.64 5.24 2.82 4 20
T8 Herm Wehmeier 1945 2 -8.80 0.00 7.20 -5 18
T8 Billy McCool 1965 2 -.75 10.29 4.03 -7 20
T8 Jay Hook 1957 2 -.62 5.40 7.20 0 20
T8 Don Gullett 1970 2 1.63 8.77 5.08 15 19

Chip R
03-20-2006, 11:05 AM
Seaver also spent a year in the Marines out of high school. That was on the special too.

traderumor
03-20-2006, 11:43 AM
Seaver also spent a year in the Marines out of high school. That was on the special too.Don't let Grady Fuson know that. Next thing you know, he'll be requiring that all San Diego pitching draft picks must enlist for two years.