PDA

View Full Version : If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?



M2
03-20-2006, 08:11 PM
As we kick around permutations of Bronson Arroyo's K rate and what the potential opening day lineup might be, let's talk about the other half of Wayne Krivsky's "pitching and defense" mantra.

Even if Arroyo brings his K rate back up to its 2004 heights, he's going to need someone to field the ball behind him. In fact the whole Reds pitching staff is going to need that. It's not like this is a termination-oriented staff the club will be trotting out there.

To me it makes little sense to start investing in pitching and then undercut it with atrocious defense.

Edwin Encarnacion has range and it looks like he's tamed his arm a bit. A slimmer Austin Kearns should be good in RF. Felipe Lopez is the SS and hopefully he'll continue to improve in the field. Jason LaRue and Javier Valentin are capable behind the plate.

One major problem lurks out in CF. If the Krivsky regime is serious about reshaping this team, it will coax Ken Griffey Jr. into an OF corner for the good of this team. Put Chris Denorfia out in CF with Kearns in RF and Jr. in LF and you've done your pitching staff an enormous favor. Basically you've closed up a gap and a half. Obviously that would entail Adam Dunn at 1B.

As we've all heard, Scott Hatteberg is the nominal bonhomme at 1B for the moment. I don't mind Hatteberg and I actually expect he'll perform all right this season (he seems to thrive in even-numbered years), but he's not helping the team in the field and benching him paves the way for a better defense.

That leads us to 2B. Forget, as best you can, about Tony Womack's numerous offensive shortcomings. The Reds can't afford to stick a glove that lousy in the field. In fact, I'm going to take that concept so seriously here that I'm going to suggest sacrificing a player I truly love. Ryan Freel is a dynamite leadoff hitter and the Reds' equivalent of Chone Figgins, just play him wherever you've got you biggest hole. Yet, at best, he's a mediocre 2B. My suggestion would be to play the hell out of Freel until you get a good trade offer for him, then replace him with a glove guy (nominally Matt Kata at the moment). The team can figure out the 1-2 hitters among Lopez, Denorfia, Encarnacion and Kearns. At some point you have to give you pitching some support. Lopez, Jr. and Dunn are already enough sacrifices made in the name of scoring. If it means the Reds become a 750-run team instead of an 820-run team, so be it. Until the organization figures out how to stop the other team, the offense is an afterthought.

Puffy
03-20-2006, 08:14 PM
*cough* Joey Gathright *cough*

OnBaseMachine
03-20-2006, 08:14 PM
*cough* Chris Young *cough*

M2
03-20-2006, 08:16 PM
You'll get no arguments from me on Gathright or Young.

Though I was thinking of this in McGyver mode, trying to use the spare pieces available at the moment. WWRDAD?

KronoRed
03-20-2006, 08:17 PM
*cough* Gathright is probably more easily obtained, the D-backs need Young *cough*

jmcclain19
03-20-2006, 08:19 PM
You guys should get something for those coughs. Seems to be spreading

flyer85
03-20-2006, 08:21 PM
The easiest way to improve your pitching without getting better pitchers is to improve the defense. The Reds were the worst defensive OF in baseball last year and just missed an opportunity to improve the defense by moving Jr to LF where he would likely be a little above average and installing denorfia in CF. Instead the OF still stinks and now the 1b and 2b stink defensively as well. Hatteberg is a -25 FRAA downgrade from Casey of 2005.

OnBaseMachine
03-20-2006, 08:24 PM
*cough* Gathright is probably more easily obtained, the D-backs need Young *cough*

The D-Backs are loaded with outfield prospects.

Carlos Quentin, Carlos Gonzales, and Justin Upton. Plus Shawn Green, Luis Gonzalez, Eric Byrnes, and Scott Hairston on the Major League roster.

Chip R
03-20-2006, 08:26 PM
You'll get no arguments from me on Gathright or Young.

Oh, sure, they are good defensive players but do they Know How To Win? Can they Play The Game Right?

OnBaseMachine
03-20-2006, 08:28 PM
Oh, sure, they are good defensive players but do they Know How To Win? Can they Play The Game Right?

More importantly, are they baseball guys?

flyer85
03-20-2006, 08:41 PM
More importantly, are they baseball guys?or are they scrappy?

Puffy
03-20-2006, 08:45 PM
Oh, sure, they are good defensive players but do they Know How To Win? Can they Play The Game Right?

Do they wear the high stirrups? Do they pee on their hands so as not to get blisters? Are they awesome at the practical jokes?

These are things Narron needs to know.

Johnny Footstool
03-20-2006, 11:29 PM
The D-Rays were asking for Scott Olsen in exchange for Gathright.

pedro
03-20-2006, 11:30 PM
This just seems like the perfect opportunity to move KGJ to LF and put Denofria in CF.

KronoRed
03-20-2006, 11:56 PM
This just seems like the perfect opportunity to move KGJ to LF and put Denofria in CF.
That makes too much sense.

Far East
03-21-2006, 01:08 AM
Are Buchanan and/or Wise any good with the glove?

Their ST hitting appears as good as some other OF candidates.

If we like Encarnacion's Florida stats, then Wise and Buchanan's ST numbers are promising, at least.

**********AB OBP SLG OPS

E Encarnacion 44 .521 1.068 1.589

B Buchanan 24 .500 .792 1.292

D Wise 38 .405 .816 1.221

I'm simply looking for OF options (in addition to the much mentioned Denorfia and Freel) that would put Dunn back at 1B.

Ravenlord
03-21-2006, 02:46 AM
i know nothing of Buchanan defensively, but DeWayne Wise is phenominal with the glove.

Gainesville Red
03-21-2006, 03:14 AM
I know next to nothing about DeWayne Wise. Somebody school me. I was really impressed with what I saw out of him in Orlando on Sat. Seems like he's had a good spring. How good of a prospect is he?

Ravenlord
03-21-2006, 03:34 AM
I know next to nothing about DeWayne Wise. Somebody school me. I was really impressed with what I saw out of him in Orlando on Sat. Seems like he's had a good spring. How good of a prospect is he?
he's not really a prospect anymore.

he's a much better version of Reggie Taylor.

traderumor
03-21-2006, 07:25 AM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060321/SPT04/603210388/1071


A proven starter
Arroyo move also solidifies defense
BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

SARASOTA, Fla. - The first trade of the Wayne Krivsky/Bob Castellini era could be viewed as risky.

When Krivsky, the Reds general manager, sent outfielder Wily Mo Peña to the Boston Red Sox in exchange for pitcher Bronson Arroyo and cash, he traded a player who could blossom into one of the game's premier sluggers.

"I can't worry about that," Krivsky said. "We're better with Arroyo in the rotation, and Adam Dunn in left field."
ADVERTISEMENT

It's hard to argue with that. The players see it that way.

"You hate to give up Wily Mo," Dunn said. "But it's for someone proven. This makes us better now."

That's the message management is sending: We're trying to win now.

All you have to do is look at the first trade Dan O'Brien made as general manager three years ago to see there's a philosophical change. O'Brien sent a proven big-league pitcher, Chris Reitsma, to Atlanta for two prospects, Bubba Nelson and Jung Keun Bong. Nelson was recently released; Bong has little chance of making the club.

Arroyo, a 29-year-old right-hander, likely will be in the rotation for at least the next three years. He signed a three-year, $11.5 million contract in January. The Reds got $1.5 million in Monday's deal.

Arroyo probably will go third in the rotation after Aaron Harang and Brandon Claussen. Dave Williams and Eric Milton will be the other starters.

With the Arroyo trade, Reds manager Jerry Narron confirmed speculation that's been brewing for weeks: The Reds plan to start the year without Paul Wilson in the rotation.

Dunn returns to left field, where he's played the last 4½ years. Scott Hatteberg becomes the first baseman.

Krivsky said the Peña-Arroyo trade developed over the last two or three days. That's roughly the time frame in which it became clear the Reds' starting pitching wasn't ready to contend.

Michael Gosling, the leading candidate to take Wilson's spot in the rotation, gave up 10 runs in Bradenton in 1/3 of an inning Saturday. That same day in Orlando, Williams gave up eight runs.

Those outings did not increase the urgency to make the deal, Krivsky said.

"I would have made the deal if we pitched two shutouts Saturday," he said.

Arroyo had a better year last year than any Reds pitcher. He was 14-10 with a 4.51 ERA. He pitched 2051/3 innings and led the Red Sox with 20 quality starts.

The Reds were 46-23 when they got a quality start - at least six innings pitched while giving up no more than three earned runs - last year.

"We got a solid major-league starter," Narron said. "He can throw any pitch over in any count."

The move is a major upgrade defensively for the Reds.

"Adam Dunn is better than Wily Mo in left," Narron said. "Hatteberg is better than Dunn at first."

The Reds set themselves up to make Monday's trade on Feb. 12, when they signed Hatteberg.

Hatteberg is a different hitter than Peña. Peña is all about power. Hatteberg has never hit more than 15 home runs in a season.

But Hatteberg makes contact and works the count. He's walked 432 times in his career and struck out 420 times.

"We're very fortunate to have him," Narron said. "I can't believe he was still available."

Hatteberg was an everyday player for the Oakland A's the last two years. Hatteberg only hit .256, but he drove in one more run than Sean Casey (59 to 58) in 65 fewer at-bats in 2005.

He signed knowing he could end up as a bit player for the Reds. But he also was aware of the team's outfielder surplus.

"I knew that a trade was a possibility," he said. "Whether it happens or not, you never know. But that was part of the appeal of coming here."

Apparently you all are overanalyzing the defense thing. Dunn better than Wily Mo in left, Hatteberg better than Dunn at first, defense now better ;)

Also, someone needs to introduce John Fay to Aaron Harang (see bold)

http://cmsimg.enquirer.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=AB&Date=20060321&Category=SPT04&ArtNo=603210388&Ref=V2&Profile=1071&MaxW=315&border=1

They moved fast to get this picture. I'm surprised Arroyo doesn't have tears streaming down his face.

OnBaseMachine
03-21-2006, 07:32 AM
"We're very fortunate to have him," Narron said. "I can't believe he was still available."

:laugh:

I can't either Jerry, very hard to believe that a 36 year old first basemen with horrible defense and coming off a .677 OPS season was still available in February. Shocking I tell ya.

lollipopcurve
03-21-2006, 08:42 AM
I like M2's proposal. Krivsky's gotten credit for being courageous in dealing Pena, but he's probably going to need a lot more to force Junior into an OF corner anytime soon.

I don't understand why they don't stick with Dunn at first. It seems the best place for him long-term -- he's a good athlete and a great target over there -- and keeping him there presents an opportunity to really upgrade the OF defense and, at the same time, get some players into the lineup who can run.

They're selling the trade as having defensive benefits. But I'm not buying it, especially when compared to what they could be doing by keeping Dunn at first and putting Denorfia in the OF.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 09:59 AM
Hatteberg better than Dunn at firstI see no reason to believe that is true. Hatteberg is a short statue playing 1b. Less than zero both offensively and defensively. Doesn't seem like the way to improve your team.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 10:01 AM
I don't understand why they don't stick with Dunn at first. It seems the best place for him long-term -- he's a good athlete and a great target over there -- and keeping him there presents an opportunity to really upgrade the OF defense and, at the same time, get some players into the lineup who can run. Exactly. Dunn will never be anything but below average in the OF. He has a chance to be very good at first and that is where he will eventually end up anyway as his speed goes away.

Roy Tucker
03-21-2006, 10:02 AM
Yep, I agree with the base note.

The whole Womack-Hatteberg dynamic is ill-conceived.

Hatteberg is a nice lefty bat off the bench and spot-starter at 1B. It is conceivable that Womack could be a super-sub type guy (more conceivable 2-3 years ago, but not now).

But both players are not MLB-caliber regulars and I think that will get exposed 1-2 months into the season. I think the Reds are just fooling themselves if they believe otherwise. Narron and Krivsky spout so much baseball-speak, I have a hard time telling if they truly believe the blather they are spewing or if they are just obfuscating. I hope they are dumb like a fox and have a Plan B in place. I hope, I hope, I hope, ...

And Junior, God bless his soul, wants so badly to be The Kid he was in Seattle and bound through CF like the gazelle he once was. But at some point in time, he has to come to grips with the player he is now. I remember going to games last year and being staggered by the lack of range Junior had. A ball would get hit, I'd think "phew, we're OK, that will get caught" and then see Junior looking like he is running in mud trying to get to it. It's not because of lack of desire or work, it's the result of all the blown hammies, tendons, etc. that have slowed him down.

So yeah, Duun at 1B, Junior in LF, and either Denorfia or Freel in CF. Freel plays a darn fine CF. At 2B, he is servicable, but I truly fear he'll get himself (or someone else) hurt within weeks.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 10:04 AM
:laugh:

I can't either Jerry, very hard to believe that a 36 year old first basemen with horrible defense and coming off a .677 OPS season was still available in February. Shocking I tell ya.best described as an ex-catcher, who hits like a catcher and spent the majority of his time as a DH in 2005. That really explains it all.

BP concluded their 2006 comments on Hatteberg with no single player may have damaged their teams playoff hopes in September more than Hatteberg and the ABs the A's wasted on him.

MWM
03-21-2006, 10:18 AM
Per Fay's article:

Arroyo had a better year last year than any Reds pitcher. He was 14-10 with a 4.51 ERA. He pitched 2051/3 innings and led the Red Sox with 20 quality starts.


How was that better than harang last year?

flyer85
03-21-2006, 10:22 AM
And Junior, God bless his soul, wants so badly to be The Kid he was in Seattle and bound through CF like the gazelle he once was. But at some point in time, he has to come to grips with the player he is nowwhich is basically the worst everyday defensive CF in baseball.

wheels
03-21-2006, 10:45 AM
Anyone have John Fay's email address?

Someone really needs to keep him honest.

Chip R
03-21-2006, 12:39 PM
I see no reason to believe that is true. Hatteberg is a short statue playing 1b. Less than zero both offensively and defensively. Doesn't seem like the way to improve your team.

It doesn't matter if we believe it. The Reds believe it and have publicly said so. If they don't believe it, they will make a deal for a 1st baseman before the season starts. I could go on and on about what the Reds believe that isn't necessarily true but it really doesn't matter. Unless the fans start demanding Dunn play 1st, it probably isn't going to happen except for the occasional start there to get Freel in there.

M2
03-21-2006, 12:54 PM
What I find astounding is that Narron's a former catcher trying to improve his team defense on the corners. Let's say he's right about the basic defensive merits of Pena, Dunn and Hatteberg (though I don't think he is), does that really do much to change the defensive ability of this franchise?

We're talking marginal improvement at best in each case. Meanwhile there's glaring defensive problems up the middle that seemingly get paid no attention. It's like making a sandwich with the lunch meat on the outside I tell you.

BRM
03-21-2006, 01:17 PM
We're talking marginal improvement at best in each case. Meanwhile there's glaring defensive problems up the middle that seemingly get paid no attention. It's like making a sandwich with the lunch meat on the outside I tell you.

Do you think the Reds have the worst "projected" up the middle defense in MLB with Lopez, Womack, and Junior?

M2
03-21-2006, 01:23 PM
Do you think the Reds have the worst "projected" up the middle defense in MLB with Lopez, Womack, and Junior?

Yep, and with a bullet.

GoReds
03-21-2006, 01:24 PM
I like the idea of trading for a rangy outfielder such as Gathright or Young. If Junior isn't willing to move, part of his range loss could be compensated by sticking a true centerfielder in left until Junior, Narron or both realize it's the best option available.

BRM
03-21-2006, 01:32 PM
What's the real issue here with moving Griffey to a corner? Is the front office just afraid to confront him with it or do they really believe he is more of an injury risk in LF?

Puffy
03-21-2006, 01:37 PM
What's the real issue here with moving Griffey to a corner? Is the front office just afraid to confront him with it or do they really believe he is more of an injury risk in LF?

I believe they feel that the starting and stopping required in left or right is an injury risk. That being, that in center you are allowed to roam free a little more, not having to worry about walls to your left or right.

Puffy
03-21-2006, 01:39 PM
Do you think the Reds have the worst "projected" up the middle defense in MLB with Lopez, Womack, and Junior?

I don't think Junior is as bad as a lot of folks on here do in CF, but yes, I agree thats its the worst up the middle D in MLB.

And to make matters worse, I think the right side of the infield (with Womack and Hatteburg) is not only the worst defensive tandem but also the worst offensive tandem in MLB.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 01:40 PM
That being, that in center you are allowed to roam free a little moreunfortunately he isn't capable of roaming very far.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 01:41 PM
Is the front office just afraid to confront him with it or do they really believe he is more of an injury risk in LF?He's an injury risk every time he steps out of the dugout.

BRM
03-21-2006, 01:44 PM
If we decide that Griffey is untradeable, what do you do with him?

flyer85
03-21-2006, 01:45 PM
If we decide that Griffey is untradeableGriffey gets to decide that.

Chip R
03-21-2006, 01:45 PM
What's the real issue here with moving Griffey to a corner? Is the front office just afraid to confront him with it or do they really believe he is more of an injury risk in LF?

It's more the latter than the former. When Kullman was interim GM he said as much.

BRM
03-21-2006, 01:48 PM
Griffey gets to decide that.

I know. So what do you do with him? Just leave him in CF and hope for the best?

M2
03-21-2006, 02:00 PM
It's more the latter than the former. When Kullman was interim GM he said as much.

They may think it, but I tend to think that's BS. You don't start and stop any more frequently in an OF corner than you do in CF. In fact you do it less because, unlike a CF, you aren't on your horse for every flyball hit to the OF.

Also, a shorter run means you don't get up to full speed, which means you have a less violent stop

Beyond all of that, Jr.'s defense is so bad (he's easily the worst CF in MLB) that the reward for shifting him out of CF overwhelms whatever minimal increase there might be on injury risk. Frankly I think it's a matter of the organization not allowing itself to even think about how much its big money player has lost in the field.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 02:01 PM
Just leave him in CF and hope for the best?I think they are afraid to even approach him about it.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 02:03 PM
Beyond all of that, Jr.'s defense is so bad (he's easily the worst CF in MLB) that the reward for shifting him out of CF overwhelms whatever minimal increase there might be on injury risk. Frankly I think it's a matter of the organization not allowing itself to even think about how much its big money player has lost in the field.a flyball starting staff with the worst defensive OF in baseball is NOT a pretty combination.

Chip R
03-21-2006, 02:03 PM
They may think it, but I tend to think that's BS. You don't start and stop any more frequently in an OF corner than you do in CF. In fact you do it less because, unlike a CF, you aren't on your horse for every flyball hit to the OF.


Kullman said that they are concerned about him running into the walls in the corners. They also worry about him playing 1st because of the potential problems it could cause his legs.

BRM
03-21-2006, 02:04 PM
So, it sounds like the only way the Reds will upgrade the OF defense is by trading Junior.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 02:10 PM
So, it sounds like the only way the Reds will upgrade the OF defense is by trading Junior.either that or by confiscating Gapper's ATV.

M2
03-21-2006, 02:21 PM
Kullman said that they are concerned about him running into the walls in the corners. They also worry about him playing 1st because of the potential problems it could cause his legs.

There's a wall out in CF too and constant running involved. Honestly, I took Kullman's statements on the subject as evidence that the organization didn't want to wrestle with the $12.5 million gorilla. The sad thing is that Jr. strikes me as a good and reasonable guy who'd move if you went to him and said, "Listen, this Denorfia kid's a better CF than you are. It would help the team if you moved to LF and it would be invaluable to the kid to have you at his side while he adjusted to the majors."

Raisor
03-21-2006, 02:23 PM
There's a wall out in CF too and constant running involved.


One of JR's worst (looking) injuries was back in 95 (I think) when he ran full bore into the wall in the Kingdome. Breaking his wrist.

Horrible accident.

Cyclone792
03-21-2006, 02:33 PM
I gotta side with M2 on this one. The Reds are just using the injury beef to avoid the issue of moving a future Hall of Famer from his mainstay position he's held his entire career, especially one in which he excelled at defensively in his younger days. It's justification in their mind to avoid it, and they'll believe what they want to believe, regardless of the validity.

It's just more bad decision making at work in terms of wins and losses. Both the offense and defense are better off with Griffey in left, Dunn at first, Denorfia in center and Hatteberg out of the lineup. But the reality of old baseball men rules all, and forward thinking for the benefit of the team is rarely allowed to emerge unscathed.

Puffy
03-21-2006, 02:36 PM
It's just more bad decision making at work in terms of wins and losses. Both the offense and defense are better off with Griffey in left, Dunn at first, Denorfia in center and Hatteberg out of the lineup. But the reality of old baseball men rules all, and forward thinking for the benefit of the team is rarely allowed to emerge unscathed.

And Freel at second.

Cyclone792
03-21-2006, 02:41 PM
And Freel at second.

Darn it, Puffy, you're uncovering my conspiracy to support Tony Womack playing second base, leading off and offsetting all the positives gained from moving Griffey to left field! ;)

In all seriousness, Freel leading off and playing second should be a given, but I'm sure we're all pretty confident that Narron will find a way to screw that one up too. :help:

KronoRed
03-21-2006, 04:31 PM
And Freel at second.
No way, he's too valuable to actually play.

Red Heeler
03-21-2006, 05:08 PM
There's a wall out in CF too and constant running involved. Honestly, I took Kullman's statements on the subject as evidence that the organization didn't want to wrestle with the $12.5 million gorilla. The sad thing is that Jr. strikes me as a good and reasonable guy who'd move if you went to him and said, "Listen, this Denorfia kid's a better CF than you are. It would help the team if you moved to LF and it would be invaluable to the kid to have you at his side while he adjusted to the majors."

I've said for 4 years now that the best way to improve the outfield AND infield defense is to move Jr. to 1B. It has been said by more than one person that if he had been right handed, Jr. would have been a plus defender at SS. If you put him at 1B, I'll take any and all bets that within a year he is considered among the top few defensive firstbasemen in the Majors.

The problem is that old star athletes are really bad at deciding when they are no longer a stud at their position. Junior and the Reds management may say that 1B would be harder on his legs for a legion of reasons, but every bit of it is bunk. I don't blame Junior for it any more than I blame Larkin for resisting a move off of SS. It is simply the nature of the beast.

To move Junior out of CF, the Reds need a non-lame-duck manager with a set of brass cajones. Simply tell him that he needs to break in a firstbaseman's mitt, or you will do your best to trade him into a favorable situation for him.

Johnny Footstool
03-21-2006, 05:37 PM
I've said for 4 years now that the best way to improve the outfield AND infield defense is to move Jr. to 1B.

I agree, but the prevailing argument is that it's harder on the legs to play 1B than it is to play CF. Personally, I don't buy it, but I'm not a doctor.


a flyball starting staff with the worst defensive OF in baseball is NOT a pretty combination.

Good thing the Reds just acquired a groundball pitcher in Arroyo.

Umm...wait a minute...

Doc. Scott
03-21-2006, 06:03 PM
I think if there's one thing Wayne Krivsky's going to know how to do, it's improve the Reds' team defense. The Twinks were always among the league leaders in D and their prospects rarely came up to the bigs with bad gloves. Some of 'em couldn't hit, but they could almost always field well.

Oh, sure, Kriv might torpedo the offense in the process, but I do have faith the D will get better over the next year or two.

princeton
03-21-2006, 06:03 PM
whose prevailing argument?

RedsBaron
03-21-2006, 06:13 PM
I agree, but the prevailing argument is that it's harder on the legs to play 1B than it is to play CF. Personally, I don't buy it, but I'm not a doctor.




I can recall that argument being made 40 years ago before the Yankees finally moved Mantle from the outfield to firstbase.
I don't buy the argument. I've played both positions (admittedly at a very, very, very low level of competition). Firstbase is the easiest position I have ever played.

M2
03-21-2006, 06:59 PM
I can recall that argument being made 40 years ago before the Yankees finally moved Mantle from the outfield to firstbase.
I don't buy the argument. I've played both positions (admittedly at a very, very, very low level of competition). Firstbase is the easiest position I have ever played.

Exactly. I'm guessing anyone who's ever played the game of baseball would agree.

Though it sounds like this all comes down to Krivsky. He's the guy in the position to knock over these strawmen and then say, "Even if you're right, that's still no reason for this team to keep biting the bullet on CF defense." IMO, until Krivsky takes action and demands Narron play a more sensible up-the-middle defense, he's just paying lip service to the concept.

IslandRed
03-21-2006, 07:31 PM
Just a hunch, but I wouldn't be surprised if a Pete-Rose-in-1975 moment happens before long.

Chip R
03-21-2006, 08:36 PM
Exactly. I'm guessing anyone who's ever played the game of baseball would agree.

Though it sounds like this all comes down to Krivsky. He's the guy in the position to knock over these strawmen and then say, "Even if you're right, that's still no reason for this team to keep biting the bullet on CF defense." IMO, until Krivsky takes action and demands Narron play a more sensible up-the-middle defense, he's just paying lip service to the concept.

You are probably right that keeping Jr. in CF is more about avoiding a confrontation than keeping him injury free, although I would still think that a guy with a history of hamstring injuries may have more problems at 1st than he would in the OF. That said, if he is not going to play CF here, where is he going to play? LF is the obvious choice but they seem to like Dunn there and the feeling is mutual. They could put him in RF but Kearns is there for the moment and he is the best OFer among the three. Plus I think you need your best OFer in RF, especially if he has a gun for an arm. Jr. has a decent arm but not a RF arm. That pretty much leaves 1B. So do the Reds move him to 1st and hope he can stay healthy and hope he does not cause a stink about it? Or do they keep him in CF for the next 3 years to keep him happy?

reds44
03-21-2006, 08:37 PM
*cough* Joey Gathright *cough*
me likey:thumbup:

flyer85
03-21-2006, 11:13 PM
me likey:thumbup:I believe they have a better in house solution in Denorfia. The guy hit 20 HRs with a .390 OBP last year. Much better minor league numbers than Gathright and GABP is not a huge CF to patrol.