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View Full Version : What do all of the recent moves have in common?



Red Leader
03-21-2006, 04:12 PM
I posted this in the Dave Ross acquisition thread, but some felt it would be a good discussion seperately.

When looking at all of the off-season acquisitions and the recent trades, it appears that all of these players have one thing in common: they are all on the 40 man roster, or they are all signed to 1 yr contracts without cost certainty for future years. Tony Womack, Scott Hatteberg, Rick White, Rich Aurilia, Ross, Gosling, Wily Mo, and Basham, among others. All signed to 1 yr deals and / or on the 40 man roster.

What does this mean? I'm guessing it means that the Reds are going to be very active this coming off season. All of these players will be off the 40 man roster and their salaries will be off the book. Most of those that remain on the 40 man roster are signed to contracts with cost certainty. So, Wayne will have a lot of open roster spots to work with, and will know exactly how much he'll have to spend this offseason, and what positions he needs to fill.

I'd also look to see what other players are on the 40 man and signed to 1 yr contracts, or are facing arbitration. I'd be willing to bet that those players will either be traded prior to this coming offseason, or signed through at least next year.

What do you think?

Falls City Beer
03-21-2006, 04:28 PM
You may be on to something. Whatever the case, it's intriguing to follow something that, for the time being, is fairly inscrutable but may be part of a design. As opposed to, say, shooting blanks in the dark.

Reds Fanatic
03-21-2006, 04:35 PM
I agree with what you posted. A lot of these players on the short one year deals may not even be here after the trade deadline. A lot of the players we have acquired seem like they will be part of a deal at a later date to get the type of players Krivsky really wants. Or maybe like the catcher today a player acquired to allow him to set up another deal. I was thinking today of the list of players you listed that we have acquired recently and a lot of these seem like players to be named later as part of future deals. I think a lot of these players are basically on short tryouts. If they somehow work out a few may stay but I expect the Reds to be very active at the trade deadline and next offseason.

Jim
03-21-2006, 04:38 PM
I'd say you're definitely on to something, Red Leader. Kriv didn't have much time to work with to build up the pitching staff, so it seems that he's doing what he can for 2006 and gearing up for something much bigger in 2007.

RedsManRick
03-21-2006, 04:47 PM
I concur as well. This is just an old-fashioned house cleaning. The kind of guys who he's cycling through don't make or break an organization. But this organization has been so bloated, organizationally, with almost-prospect and veterans. It's one thing to bring 10 vets to camp and let them have it out. It's another when your AAA team is stocked full of 30 year olds who never made it.

Next offseason should be very interesting.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 04:47 PM
I see it an indication they are woefully short of players who are worth keeping long term. They have a ton of replacement level players who can be replaced by other team's castoffs.

Red Leader
03-21-2006, 04:50 PM
I see it an indication they are woefully short of players who are worth keeping long term. They have a ton of replacement level players who can be replaced by other team's castoffs.

Exactly. So, this leads me to believe that there is a plan, and that plan involves shedding everything useless the day after the season ends this year, and building around the core players, like I've been praying for since the year 2000. They'll have money, they'll have open roster spots, and they'll have the talent they want to keep already in place. It's back ladies and gentlemen,, I have hope!!


Now, if I can just work on my patience....

cincyinco
03-21-2006, 04:57 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't we decline the option on Wilson next year too?

is Milton's 3 year guaranteed? Or is there a buyout on the 3rd year?

flyer85
03-21-2006, 04:59 PM
It's back ladies and gentlemen,, I have hope!!
I'm to cynical to have hope. It's currently raining in my office.

Red Leader
03-21-2006, 04:59 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't we decline the option on Wilson next year too?

is Milton's 3 year guaranteed? Or is there a buyout on the 3rd year?


We can buyout Wilson's 2007 option for $850K.

Milton's option is a player option, and I doubt he declines it, no matter what he does this year.

Reds Fanatic
03-21-2006, 05:00 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't we decline the option on Wilson next year too?

is Milton's 3 year guaranteed? Or is there a buyout on the 3rd year?
I am not sure about Milton but Wilson has an $850,000 buyout for next year so the Reds can buy out of that deal.

Chip R
03-21-2006, 05:00 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't we decline the option on Wilson next year too?

is Milton's 3 year guaranteed? Or is there a buyout on the 3rd year?

Yeah. But why would we? Just cause his shoulder is held together with spit and baling wire doesn't diminish his veteran leadership and clubhouse presence.

Milton has a player option. :(

BRM
03-21-2006, 05:01 PM
I'm to cynical to have hope. It's currently raining in my office.

A scrappy person would have brought an umbrella.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 05:03 PM
A scrappy person would have brought an umbrella.I much prefer to bask in my misery. Why do you think I love the Reds so much? If there fans weren't such arrogant imbeciles I would think of becoming a Cubs fan.

BRM
03-21-2006, 05:06 PM
I much prefer to bask in my misery. Why do you think I love the Reds so much? If there fans weren't such arrogant imbeciles I would think of becoming a Cubs fan.

You just love pain, huh? I've become a Rockies fan over the years since I live in Colorado. They can provide quite a bit of pain as well.

flyer85
03-21-2006, 05:07 PM
You just love pain, huh? I've become a Rockies fan over the years since I live in Colorado. They can provide quite a bit of pain as well.At least the Blake Street Bombers weren't scrappy.

BRM
03-21-2006, 05:09 PM
At least the Blake Street Bombers weren't scrappy.

True. They were fun to watch though. The Rockies only playoff appearance was a year in which they bombed away. No small ball here.

cincyinco
03-21-2006, 05:15 PM
You just love pain, huh? I've become a Rockies fan over the years since I live in Colorado. They can provide quite a bit of pain as well.

LOL.. as a former season ticket holder I can attest.

IslandRed
03-21-2006, 06:27 PM
RL, I think you've pretty much hit on it.

corkedbat
03-21-2006, 08:19 PM
OK, let's say that you're right and the plan is to clean house next season. If the Reds go out in the offseason and acquire a legit #1 pitcher (or close to it), a closer and a young bat of some kind, also assuming that we're destined to have Milton for one more year because no one will take him, how well can the Reds compete with this rotation?

1. TBNL
2. Harang
3. Arroyo
4. Claussen
5. Milton

wheels
03-21-2006, 08:57 PM
OK, let's say that you're right and the plan is to clean house next season. If the Reds go out in the offseason and acquire a legit #1 pitcher (or close to it), a closer and a young bat of some kind, also assuming that we're destined to have Milton for one more year because no one will take him, how well can the Reds compete with this rotation?

1. TBNL
2. Harang
3. Arroyo
4. Claussen
5. Milton

As long as Milton is in the equation, I'm gonna be squirmy.

It also depends on who that TBNL guy is.

cincyinco
03-21-2006, 09:33 PM
I spoke about this in another thread that FCB proposed about what woudl happen if Kearns or Pena was traded...

If Krivs can go get a close to number 1 on the very solid FA market next year, and if he drafts a near ready college pitcher this year, I think the Reds rotaiton suddenly looks.. well.. dare I say it? Competitive. Certainly better than anything since 99.

Here's what I see in the mix for next year:

1. FA pitcher - top of rotation starter if possible.
2. Harang
3. Claussen
4. Arroyo
5. College arm drafted - Bard anyone?
6. Homer Bailey - if he has a good year.
7. Milton

Suddenly the starting options don't look so bleak. Is it a winner? I don't know, but it sure looks respectable and competitive.

NewEraReds
03-21-2006, 09:36 PM
You may be on to something. Whatever the case, it's intriguing to follow something that, for the time being, is fairly inscrutable but may be part of a design. As opposed to, say, shooting blanks in the dark.
wayne is great with salaries, i pointed this out a while back about a bunch of guys being on 1 year deals. wayne will have spots open, money to spend, and he knows how to spend it. this is why i was glad we got arroyo and not a high priced guy. gives us more flexibility and room to add to the team

NewEraReds
03-21-2006, 09:39 PM
OK, let's say that you're right and the plan is to clean house next season. If the Reds go out in the offseason and acquire a legit #1 pitcher (or close to it), a closer and a young bat of some kind, also assuming that we're destined to have Milton for one more year because no one will take him, how well can the Reds compete with this rotation?

1. TBNL
2. Harang
3. Arroyo
4. Claussen
5. Milton
and then, HOPEFULLY, the following year replace milton with homer

Ron Madden
03-22-2006, 04:38 AM
I don't know if I can buy into this. :confused:

If the plan is to trim the fat and rid the 40 man roster of useless players.. Why not start now?

Why pay over the hill 35 year old scrappy players when we have younger and more talented players that will do a far better job in the field and at the plate?

Dunn can play 1b he hasnt had a fair chance.

Freel can play 2b and hit lead off everyday, why keep him if you're afraid to start him at one position ?

Denorfia or Wise can play LF.


This would be a better Offensive and a better defensive line up than Narron has in mind. Cheaper too. ;)

Jpup
03-22-2006, 06:50 AM
I don't know if I can buy into this. :confused:

If the plan is to trim the fat and rid the 40 man roster of useless players.. Why not start now?

Why pay over the hill 35 year old scrappy players when we have younger and more talented players that will do a far better job in the field and at the plate?

Dunn can play 1b he hasnt had a fair chance.

Freel can play 2b and hit lead off everyday, why keep him if you're afraid to start him at one position ?

Denorfia or Wise can play LF.


This would be a better Offensive and a better defensive line up than Narron has in mind. Cheaper too. ;)

I agree, wait (weight) broke the bridge down. I'm sick of "next season the plan starts."

do it now.

Red Leader
03-22-2006, 08:08 AM
I don't know if I can buy into this. :confused:

If the plan is to trim the fat and rid the 40 man roster of useless players.. Why not start now?

Why pay over the hill 35 year old scrappy players when we have younger and more talented players that will do a far better job in the field and at the plate?

Dunn can play 1b he hasnt had a fair chance.

Freel can play 2b and hit lead off everyday, why keep him if you're afraid to start him at one position ?

Denorfia or Wise can play LF.


This would be a better Offensive and a better defensive line up than Narron has in mind. Cheaper too. ;)


Keep in mind someone else who is on a 1 yr deal.....Jerry Narron.

I'm just guessing here, but I think the Reds didn't want to go with a bunch of youngsters in the lineup this year because they didn't want it to *appear* that they were rebuilding. They wanted fans to believe the Reds were going to compete this year. To most casual fans, that means bringing in guys that they've heard of. Krivsky and RCast didn't get the reigns until very late as well. Most of the roster was set when they took over. I do think Krivsky will try to make some moves from now until the offseason to try and acquire more long term talent, but in my mind, that will only be a pre-cursor to the bigger moves and total restructuring coming in the offseason.

TeamBoone
03-22-2006, 11:05 AM
I agree, wait (weight) broke the bridge down. I'm sick of "next season the plan starts."

do it now.

The pickings are slim at this time of the year; it would be almost impossible to do it now.

He's acquired a lot of trade bait. Teams on the cusp get desperate by the trade deadline and also at the end of the season. I'm hoping he's on to something and knows more about it than we do.

Chip R
03-22-2006, 11:09 AM
I think what these moves have in common is that none of those people have ever been in my kitchen. ;)

Red Leader
03-22-2006, 11:21 AM
I think what these moves have in common is that none of those people have ever been in my kitchen. ;)

Thanks, Cliff

Care to share your Buffalo Theory with us?